I would just like to say what an awsome afternoon i have had in Belfast. I went to Stormont parliament and the building the way it crowns the hillside projects power! If SeanT was there it would have given him the horn! I went on a tour of the building and really enjoyed it. Political figures past and present were mentioned and although i did not really learn much new information, it was a real pleasure to be involved a process that enhances political awareness. The buildings from an architectural standpoint are impresive as well throughtout Belfast. I went around Belfast city hall as well and that is stunning inside. I prefer the inside to say Manchester city hall for instance. But Manchester city hall is stunning even though it has a different style. I seem to like political buildings as well as the business inside them.
I'm going there in a couple of weeks for RSS 2019. I'm really excited, I get to go on a plane and everything! Any recommendations for other things to see?
I think people are confused because Jo Swinson has skipped over a few moves in the chess game by ruling out Corbyn now instead of making general noises in favour of a VONC and GNU.*
VONC and GNU. God, this is a terrible time for new expressions
There's a reason that most chess players don't consider "skipping moves" to be a good strategy.
The backtrack begins. Of course if her only objection to Corbyn's plan really is that he can't command a majority, then logically she'd vote for him in the VOC. So now either she does that or exposes her blatant deceit and hypocrisy on no deal Brexit.
Not been a great day for Swinson, has it?
Amateur.....
I look forward to hearing from those who were earlier saying that ruling out working with Corbyn was a brilliant political strategy, on how this reverse ferret is also a brilliant political strategy.
As predicted earlier... "She can always recant and say she tried, but her back is to the wall and the only hope for NoDeal is to tolerate a Corbyn GNU...."
Corbyn’s offer is less than it seems. The caretaker government is not there for the purpose of having a referendum with a Remain option. No. It is there for the purpose of a GE and only if Labour win an outright majority will there be a referendum. Believe that and you’ll believe anything. If the Tories won the GE on a No Deal basis you’d be back where we are today. Only this time the No Dealers would have a fresh mandate. Or there could be yet another hung Parliament.
No, it's exactly what I proposed in my Labour List article last week (and I like to think that I helped prompt it). There is nothing there limiting a referendum to an outright majority - if, as seems likely, we got another hung Parliament, Labour would be committed to a referendum with a Remain option; if enough other MPs agreed, the referendum would follow. Clearly, the Tories might win the alection, but that's democratic risk.
Swinson's response is pure politics, since she must be aware that organising a second referendum before October 31 is literally impossible. The LibDems seem more interested in scoring points than actually preventing No Deal.
I reluctantly concur. All the evidence points to the Lib Dems preferring their own advancement rather than preventing No Deal. What a bunch of chancers.
I think the 'vital supplies' referred to are medicines. So not quite so ridiculous as it sounds.
Unless something had gone badly wrong, I think we have enough C17s and A400Ms to import vital medicines. Or am I missing something? Genuine question.
With all the random spaffing going on, I have no idea.
It could equally be Boris' red wine supply
What do Boris Johnson, the Duchess of Sussex and a very successful former Manchester United manager have in common? Not much, on the face of it. But they do share a penchant for one thing – red wine. A specific red, to be precise.
Last week, when Chancellor of the Exchequer Sajid Javid visited the Prime Minister at Chequers, he brought with him "a stash" of Tignanello. If you haven't heard of it, you're not alone. Boris, however, has been a fan for some time.
During his leadership campaign, he told Politico Playbook: "Someone bought me a crate of Tignanello and I had no idea how expensive it was. I was just glugging it back. It's extraordinary stuff, it was delicious. I discovered later that it was the favourite wine of Meghan Markle. I was so amazed by this wine, I thought, 'What is this stuff?'"
The backtrack begins. Of course if her only objection to Corbyn's plan really is that he can't command a majority, then logically she'd vote for him in the VOC. So now either she does that or exposes her blatant deceit and hypocrisy on no deal Brexit.
Not been a great day for Swinson, has it?
Amateur.....
Rank Amateur and promoted well above her capabilities.
I think people are confused because Jo Swinson has skipped over a few moves in the chess game by ruling out Corbyn now instead of making general noises in favour of a VONC and GNU.*
VONC and GNU. God, this is a terrible time for new expressions
It is not even correct. A government of national unity means all the main party leaders come together. This is being done to explictly exclude one party. A GRU or governnent of Remainer unity is more accurate.
If it comes off it could easily contain members from almost every political party. Except perhaps the DUP.
I would just like to say what an awsome afternoon i have had in Belfast. I went to Stormont parliament and the building the way it crowns the hillside projects power! If SeanT was there it would have given him the horn! I went on a tour of the building and really enjoyed it. Political figures past and present were mentioned and although i did not really learn much new information, it was a real pleasure to be involved a process that enhances political awareness. The buildings from an architectural standpoint are impresive as well throughtout Belfast. I went around Belfast city hall as well and that is stunning inside. I prefer the inside to say Manchester city hall for instance. But Manchester city hall is stunning even though it has a different style. I seem to like political buildings as well as the business inside them.
I'm going there in a couple of weeks for RSS 2019. I'm really excited, I get to go on a plane and everything! Any recommendations for other things to see?
Go to the Duke of York pub in "The Entries" near St Anne's Cathedral. If you are feeling cerebral then go to the University, Botanic Gardens and the Ulster Museum (free entry)
For goodness sake, why? Healthcare is not sweeties, you don't dish it out because you like somebody.
As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying for this largesse....
Nicola obviosly hoping that this will be reciprocated for Scots people when visiting the EU. Then she'll have another area where you get a better deal being Scottish
Hoping and getting are two very different things.
If OTOH she doesn't get reciprocity but still has to pay for it then where are those funds coming from?
I note - alone on here - that sterling has recovered all of its losses from the other week against the Euro. Interestingly it does not feature at all on any of the news channels or among the myriad of people on here who were so worried when its decline was heralded as the ruination of all foreign holidays as well as forcing elderly Brits in Europe back to blighty pronto. Funny that....
What do you want the news to say? Sterling is below where it was a month ago.
You do understand the point but choose not to admit it because it does not suit your agenda.
I’m thinking you can’t read a graph. Zoom out a bit.
Unfortunately you missed the bit where I said 'the other week'. I'm thinking you cannot read.
The backtrack begins. Of course if her only objection to Corbyn's plan really is that he can't command a majority, then logically she'd vote for him in the VOC. So now either she does that or exposes her blatant deceit and hypocrisy on no deal Brexit.
Not been a great day for Swinson, has it?
Amateur.....
Rank Amateur and promoted well above her capabilities.
As Scots have known for 15 years. Bunch of dim wits that put all their eggs in that basket-case.
For goodness sake, why? Healthcare is not sweeties, you don't dish it out because you like somebody.
As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying for this largesse....
Nicola obviosly hoping that this will be reciprocated for Scots people when visiting the EU. Then she'll have another area where you get a better deal being Scottish
That seems unlikely to happen.
Typical self seeking unionist me me thinking. Yes it will.
I note - alone on here - that sterling has recovered all of its losses from the other week against the Euro. Interestingly it does not feature at all on any of the news channels or among the myriad of people on here who were so worried when its decline was heralded as the ruination of all foreign holidays as well as forcing elderly Brits in Europe back to blighty pronto. Funny that....
What do you want the news to say? Sterling is below where it was a month ago.
You do understand the point but choose not to admit it because it does not suit your agenda.
I’m thinking you can’t read a graph. Zoom out a bit.
Unfortunately you missed the bit where I said 'the other week'. I'm thinking you cannot read.
Clearly you didn’t read my fuller reply downthread.
For goodness sake, why? Healthcare is not sweeties, you don't dish it out because you like somebody.
As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying for this largesse....
Nicola obviosly hoping that this will be reciprocated for Scots people when visiting the EU. Then she'll have another area where you get a better deal being Scottish
This Government of National Unity stuff. Farce. Making remainer parties look dreadful and chaotic. People don't want grandstanding histrionics, they want stability, and are likely to go for whomever looks likely to deliver it. At the moment No deal with Boris looks like a safer bet than this mess.
Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.
This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.
Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."
That would be eminently sensible. Should Mr Johnson win handsomly, he has a mandate for No Deal if necessary, and a strong negotiating position. Should Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats win, then the people have spoken, and they want another referendum.
The big issue is what happens if - say - the Conservatives and the Brexit Party handily outpoll Lab + LD + SNP + PC + G, but have fewer seats.
Or if there is (again) no majority for any particular outcome.
The only reason for Swinson to support Corbyn’s plan is if she thinks it will fail. To to criticise her for stating the obvious as evidence that she is happy with no deal is nonsense.
And consider this - suppose Corbyn’s plan does work out and he becomes PM, has an extension and calls a GE. Either Johnson wins a majority, comes back in and takes us out of the EU without a referendum. Not exactly a triumph. Or we have a hung Parliament in which Corbyn simply stays as PM and refuses to leave . Not exactly a dream scenario.
This Government of National Unity stuff. Farce. Making remainer parties look dreadful and chaotic. People don't want grandstanding histrionics, they want stability, and are likely to go for whomever looks likely to deliver it. At the moment No deal with Boris looks like a safer bet than this mess.
Another so-called Unionist who despises the Union.
This Government of National Unity stuff. Farce. Making remainer parties look dreadful and chaotic. People don't want grandstanding histrionics, they want stability, and are likely to go for whomever looks likely to deliver it. At the moment No deal with Boris looks like a safer bet than this mess.
Another so-called Unionist who despises the Union.
Personally I think the best chance of avoiding nodeal (other than the opposition actually announcing they will support the WA, obviously) is to leave it in Johnson’s hands knowing that his escape route has been taken away and actually having to confront the reality of his rhetoric. And at least force him to confront the thought of his position in history. PM who destroyed the U.K. and imposed the consequences of no deal upon us (whilst having a tiny majority and not being able to achieve anything else anyway). Or the man who was prepared to sacrifice his career but save the country.
The only reason for Swinson to support Corbyn’s plan is if she thinks it will fail. To to criticise her for stating the obvious as evidence that she is happy with no deal is nonsense.
And consider this - suppose Corbyn’s plan does work out and he becomes PM, has an extension and calls a GE. Either Johnson wins a majority, comes back in and takes us out of the EU without a referendum. Not exactly a triumph. Or we have a hung Parliament in which Corbyn simply stays as PM and refuses to leave . Not exactly a dream scenario.
But we will have no No Deal Brexit and possibly a second referendum
This Government of National Unity stuff. Farce. Making remainer parties look dreadful and chaotic. People don't want grandstanding histrionics, they want stability, and are likely to go for whomever looks likely to deliver it. At the moment No deal with Boris looks like a safer bet than this mess.
That's a bit like calling in Fred Dibnah because you're fed up with an untidy house.
I think people are confused because Jo Swinson has skipped over a few moves in the chess game by ruling out Corbyn now instead of making general noises in favour of a VONC and GNU.*
VONC and GNU. God, this is a terrible time for new expressions
It is not even correct. A government of national unity means all the main party leaders come together. This is being done to explictly exclude one party. A GRU or governnent of Remainer unity is more accurate.
If it comes off it could easily contain members from almost every political party. Except perhaps the DUP.
But only from Remainers. Which means its members only come from one side of the biggest political division in the country. I would support it to get an extension, but it is not national unity!
Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.
This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.
Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."
That would be eminently sensible. Should Mr Johnson win handsomly, he has a mandate for No Deal if necessary, and a strong negotiating position. Should Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats win, then the people have spoken, and they want another referendum.
The big issue is what happens if - say - the Conservatives and the Brexit Party handily outpoll Lab + LD + SNP + PC + G, but have fewer seats.
Or if there is (again) no majority for any particular outcome.
The agenda for September 4th I think is set. So Boris ends up with a vote on the 5th and Parliament disappearing on the 6th with an election on October 17th...
Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.
This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.
Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."
That would be eminently sensible. Should Mr Johnson win handsomly, he has a mandate for No Deal if necessary, and a strong negotiating position. Should Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats win, then the people have spoken, and they want another referendum.
The big issue is what happens if - say - the Conservatives and the Brexit Party handily outpoll Lab + LD + SNP + PC + G, but have fewer seats.
Or if there is (again) no majority for any particular outcome.
Well that's it. When you nhave an election you roll the dice and see where it lands.
But nothing else seems viable as far as I can see.
All the discussion is repeating the same nonsense backin March. When remainers were all over social media gleefully declaring Brexit “dead”. Well, it wasn’t and they are looking pretty silly now. All they’re focussed on now is avoiding Brexit on 31st October. Few are thinking about the situation six months down the line.
Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.
This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.
Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."
That would be eminently sensible. Should Mr Johnson win handsomly, he has a mandate for No Deal if necessary, and a strong negotiating position. Should Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats win, then the people have spoken, and they want another referendum.
The big issue is what happens if - say - the Conservatives and the Brexit Party handily outpoll Lab + LD + SNP + PC + G, but have fewer seats.
Or if there is (again) no majority for any particular outcome.
I note - alone on here - that sterling has recovered all of its losses from the other week against the Euro. Interestingly it does not feature at all on any of the news channels or among the myriad of people on here who were so worried when its decline was heralded as the ruination of all foreign holidays as well as forcing elderly Brits in Europe back to blighty pronto. Funny that....
What do you want the news to say? Sterling is below where it was a month ago.
You do understand the point but choose not to admit it because it does not suit your agenda.
I’m thinking you can’t read a graph. Zoom out a bit.
Unfortunately you missed the bit where I said 'the other week'. I'm thinking you cannot read.
Clearly you didn’t read my fuller reply downthread.
Oh I did, but as it bore no relation to my point which was specifically about the nonsense of last week's panic over a small decline which has now reversed, I saw no point in commenting. Long-term sterling decline has, as you may know, gone on for decades - long before the 2016 referendum. Have a delightful day.
Personally I think the best chance of avoiding nodeal (other than the opposition actually announcing they will support the WA, obviously) is to leave it in Johnson’s hands knowing that his escape route has been taken away and actually having to confront the reality of his rhetoric. And at least force him to confront the thought of his position in history. PM who destroyed the U.K. and imposed the consequences of no deal upon us (whilst having a tiny majority and not being able to achieve anything else anyway). Or the man who was prepared to sacrifice his career but save the country.
If you're going to be rude to someone the least you can do is get the grammar right. I'm delighted to learn that Mr L is a moral highpoint though. Prior evidence had suggested otherwise, but he's put that straight.
To imagine that I was once afraid that I'd risked too much in opposing CL on Betfair seems inconceivable.
Labour are in a very strange place. They're not of course alone in that.
I think people are confused because Jo Swinson has skipped over a few moves in the chess game by ruling out Corbyn now instead of making general noises in favour of a VONC and GNU.*
VONC and GNU. God, this is a terrible time for new expressions
It is not even correct. A government of national unity means all the main party leaders come together. This is being done to explictly exclude one party. A GRU or governnent of Remainer unity is more accurate.
If it comes off it could easily contain members from almost every political party. Except perhaps the DUP.
But only from Remainers. Which means its members only come from one side of the biggest political division in the country. I would support it to get an extension, but it is not national unity!
Incidentally, I see some people have said Swinson has no reason to doubt Corbyn's word on a second referendum. Just to recap, this is a man who:
Lied about his links with Holocaust deniers and anti semites Lied about his part in a memorial service for a terrorist cell, even when confronted with a photograph Lied about the number of seats in a train Lied about his manifesto costings Lied about his plans for student loans Lied about his links with East Germany Lied to his wives about his girlfriends Lied about the reasons for the collapse of his marriage Lied about the reasons why he wouldn't talk to Theresa May Lied about his reasons for voting down the Withdrawal Agreement.
Now call me Mr Suspicious, but I'm going to say Swinson has every reason to be doubtful about his integrity.
True, he is marginally more honest than Johnson. But that's like saying someone has more financial integrity than Allen Stanford.
A 'Brexit election' would not solve the Brexit problem because the issue could not be kept to Brexit in the campaign. For that reason, if it is to go back to the people, it would need to be another referendum.
On topic, this is why an alternative government is doomed to fail. No-one will be able to agree who should lead it. I have severe doubts that Corbyn will step aside for someone else, and there are enough opposition MPs to block Corbyn.
I would just like to say what an awsome afternoon i have had in Belfast. I went to Stormont parliament and the building the way it crowns the hillside projects power! If SeanT was there it would have given him the horn! I went on a tour of the building and really enjoyed it. Political figures past and present were mentioned and although i did not really learn much new information, it was a real pleasure to be involved a process that enhances political awareness. The buildings from an architectural standpoint are impresive as well throughtout Belfast. I went around Belfast city hall as well and that is stunning inside. I prefer the inside to say Manchester city hall for instance. But Manchester city hall is stunning even though it has a different style. I seem to like political buildings as well as the business inside them.
I'm going there in a couple of weeks for RSS 2019. I'm really excited, I get to go on a plane and everything! Any recommendations for other things to see?
Yes, Giants Causeway is impressive from a geological standpoint! I think Belfast City Council building is worth a look inside and out. You can get guided tours of the city council according to the guy who showed us around Stormont! I got to sit in the chief w hips seat in the stormont debating chamber, which is next to the first ministers seat.. It was bicamaral in its day but unless.i misunderstood, the upper chamber is redundant. I thought it was an afternoon well spent.
If you are going to NI as an individual, travel cards are worth a look, Translink sell day, weekly and monthly cards. They are zoned so a zone 4 will take you to Giants Causeway, Londonderry (unless i went to the wrong part it was mostly boarded up!) and back to Belfast for £16.50! Given the milege i thought this was good. You have to buy the ilink tickets in advance, i only discovered this a few days in advance but they send them through the post within a couple of days! I like NI and have not experienced a problem given the troubles. I plan to visit Belfast Castle tommorow before i fly back to England. The flight by the way is pretty short and nobody even checked my passport in Belfast International airport! I was straight off the plane and 10 minutes early!
For goodness sake, why? Healthcare is not sweeties, you don't dish it out because you like somebody.
As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying for this largesse....
Nicola obviosly hoping that this will be reciprocated for Scots people when visiting the EU. Then she'll have another area where you get a better deal being Scottish
That seems unlikely to happen.
Typical self seeking unionist me me thinking. Yes it will.
How do you propose that the EU differentiates between Scots and U.K. citizens?
For goodness sake, why? Healthcare is not sweeties, you don't dish it out because you like somebody.
As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying for this largesse....
Nicola obviosly hoping that this will be reciprocated for Scots people when visiting the EU. Then she'll have another area where you get a better deal being Scottish
That seems unlikely to happen.
Typical self seeking unionist me me thinking. Yes it will.
How do you propose that the EU differentiates between Scots and U.K. citizens?
Well, if the English are having blue passports, how about the Scots having tartan passports?
A 'Brexit election' would not solve the Brexit problem because the issue could not be kept to Brexit in the campaign. For that reason, if it is to go back to the people, it would need to be another referendum.
Question - if all Corbyn’s going to do is negotiate an extension and call an election, why does it have to be him leading the “GNU”?
It's not all he's going to do. In fact he'll never do it.
Corbyn just doesn't care about the EU or Brexit. He'll be a caretaker forever. What Corbyn cares about is revolutionary change in the UK. Robbing the rich and giving to the Labour party, with the poor getting a bit to keep them on-side.
Actually that mis-characterises him - he just wants to hurt the rich and anyone that's smarter than he is. Unfortunately that means we'll all get hurt.
Corbyn aligns himself with terrorists and fringe-groups, and anyone that's small in terms of power. He aligns himself with the idiots of this world.
Personally I think the best chance of avoiding nodeal (other than the opposition actually announcing they will support the WA, obviously) is to leave it in Johnson’s hands knowing that his escape route has been taken away and actually having to confront the reality of his rhetoric. And at least force him to confront the thought of his position in history. PM who destroyed the U.K. and imposed the consequences of no deal upon us (whilst having a tiny majority and not being able to achieve anything else anyway). Or the man who was prepared to sacrifice his career but save the country.
No Deal is coming
I think the idea of a VONC in September is insane. It would be a lot easier to let the clock run down until October 7th when with the clock ticking even Boris has admitted defeat and he is not aiming for No Deal or the head of steam is sufficient that a working avoid No Deal plan has been agreed by everyone required.
And the answer to any request for an election in September is that you could have called that back in July. Get a 2+ month extension to December 31st then we can talk..
Personally I think the best chance of avoiding nodeal (other than the opposition actually announcing they will support the WA, obviously) is to leave it in Johnson’s hands knowing that his escape route has been taken away and actually having to confront the reality of his rhetoric. And at least force him to confront the thought of his position in history. PM who destroyed the U.K. and imposed the consequences of no deal upon us (whilst having a tiny majority and not being able to achieve anything else anyway). Or the man who was prepared to sacrifice his career but save the country.
Question - if all Corbyn’s going to do is negotiate an extension and call an election, why does it have to be him leading the “GNU”?
It's not all he's going to do. In fact he'll never do it.
Corbyn just doesn't care about the EU or Brexit. He'll be a caretaker forever. What Corbyn cares about is revolutionary change in the UK. Robbing the rich and giving to the Labour party, with the poor getting a bit to keep them on-side.
Actually that mis-characterises him - he just wants to hurt the rich and anyone that's smarter than he is. Unfortunately that means we'll all get hurt.
Corbyn aligns himself with terrorists and fringe-groups, and anyone that's small in terms of power. He aligns himself with the idiots of this world.
For goodness sake, why? Healthcare is not sweeties, you don't dish it out because you like somebody.
As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying for this largesse....
Nicola obviosly hoping that this will be reciprocated for Scots people when visiting the EU. Then she'll have another area where you get a better deal being Scottish
That seems unlikely to happen.
Typical self seeking unionist me me thinking. Yes it will.
How do you propose that the EU differentiates between Scots and U.K. citizens?
Who cares we have hearts we will not refuse sick people treatment.
A 'Brexit election' would not solve the Brexit problem because the issue could not be kept to Brexit in the campaign. For that reason, if it is to go back to the people, it would need to be another referendum.
Twitter is worse than a school playground, and why on earth is Facebook poking in here?
Agreed. Last thing I want here is to be linked to Facebook. If it somehow links to who I am on Facebook, that will be last time I post on here.
Ditto. What is that button for?
I think the Scottish approach to Europeans needing the NHS is purely pragmatic. The registration of EU nationals is only 30% complete, and there is no easy way in the meantime to sift those who have been resident for years from temporary tourists. Until the registration is completed, it is a sane bit of No Deal planning.
I am not convinced by Boris's planes. Medicines and medical equipment are constrainedby customs and regulatory issues, not traffic jams. Not that I expect any, because most lorries won't go until documentation is complete.
For goodness sake, why? Healthcare is not sweeties, you don't dish it out because you like somebody.
As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying for this largesse....
Nicola obviosly hoping that this will be reciprocated for Scots people when visiting the EU. Then she'll have another area where you get a better deal being Scottish
That seems unlikely to happen.
Typical self seeking unionist me me thinking. Yes it will.
How do you propose that the EU differentiates between Scots and U.K. citizens?
Well, if the English are having blue passports, how about the Scots having tartan passports?
Ydoethur, we will have EU ones so will not be an issue for long, or we could put the boot in and go back to real Black ones.
For goodness sake, why? Healthcare is not sweeties, you don't dish it out because you like somebody.
As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying for this largesse....
Nicola obviosly hoping that this will be reciprocated for Scots people when visiting the EU. Then she'll have another area where you get a better deal being Scottish
That seems unlikely to happen.
Typical self seeking unionist me me thinking. Yes it will.
How do you propose that the EU differentiates between Scots and U.K. citizens?
Well, if the English are having blue passports, how about the Scots having tartan passports?
Ydoethur, we will have EU ones so will not be an issue for long
But you can have any colour you like in the EU. Go for tartan. Be original.
For goodness sake, why? Healthcare is not sweeties, you don't dish it out because you like somebody.
As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying for this largesse....
Nicola obviosly hoping that this will be reciprocated for Scots people when visiting the EU. Then she'll have another area where you get a better deal being Scottish
That seems unlikely to happen.
Typical self seeking unionist me me thinking. Yes it will.
How do you propose that the EU differentiates between Scots and U.K. citizens?
Well, if the English are having blue passports, how about the Scots having tartan passports?
Ydoethur, we will have EU ones so will not be an issue for long
But you can have any colour you like in the EU. Go for tartan. Be original.
Lots of different tartans though so be a myriad of them , good business for somebody.
For goodness sake, why? Healthcare is not sweeties, you don't dish it out because you like somebody.
As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying for this largesse....
Nicola obviosly hoping that this will be reciprocated for Scots people when visiting the EU. Then she'll have another area where you get a better deal being Scottish
That seems unlikely to happen.
Typical self seeking unionist me me thinking. Yes it will.
How do you propose that the EU differentiates between Scots and U.K. citizens?
Who cares we have hearts we will not refuse sick people treatment.
It’s fine on an individual level but more challenging when you aggregate. Of course no one denies emergency medicine and acute care, but to have an open door policy on chronic care is a significant financial commitment. I’d rather see that money spent on better education or housing or whatever for taxpayers
A 'Brexit election' would not solve the Brexit problem because the issue could not be kept to Brexit in the campaign. For that reason, if it is to go back to the people, it would need to be another referendum.
Twitter is worse than a school playground, and why on earth is Facebook poking in here?
Agreed. Last thing I want here is to be linked to Facebook. If it somehow links to who I am on Facebook, that will be last time I post on here.
Ditto. What is that button for?
I think the Scottish approach to Europeans needing the NHS is purely pragmatic. The registration of EU nationals is only 30% complete, and there is no easy way in the meantime to sift those who have been resident for years from temporary tourists. Until the registration is completed, it is a sane bit of No Deal planning.
I am not convinced by Boris's planes. Medicines and medical equipment are constrainedby customs and regulatory issues, not traffic jams. Not that I expect any, because most lorries won't go until documentation is complete.
Regulation is not an issue - you just grandfather in all currently EMA approved products
Personally I think the best chance of avoiding nodeal (other than the opposition actually announcing they will support the WA, obviously) is to leave it in Johnson’s hands knowing that his escape route has been taken away and actually having to confront the reality of his rhetoric. And at least force him to confront the thought of his position in history. PM who destroyed the U.K. and imposed the consequences of no deal upon us (whilst having a tiny majority and not being able to achieve anything else anyway). Or the man who was prepared to sacrifice his career but save the country.
No Deal is coming
I think the idea of a VONC in September is insane. It would be a lot easier to let the clock run down until October 7th when with the clock ticking even Boris has admitted defeat and he is not aiming for No Deal or the head of steam is sufficient that a working avoid No Deal plan has been agreed by everyone required.
And the answer to any request for an election in September is that you could have called that back in July. Get a 2+ month extension to December 31st then we can talk..
No Parliament for six weeks while Brexit plans are put in place? I should coco.
Swinson having a car crash interview on Channel 4 news, pretty much caught lying about a personal conversation with Harriet Harman going behind Corbyn's back to become leader. If this is Krishnan taking her to the cleaners imagine what a top class interviewer would do. Really think those on the fence will vote Lib Dem despite not because of her.
For goodness sake, why? Healthcare is not sweeties, you don't dish it out because you like somebody.
As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying for this largesse....
Nicola obviosly hoping that this will be reciprocated for Scots people when visiting the EU. Then she'll have another area where you get a better deal being Scottish
That seems unlikely to happen.
Typical self seeking unionist me me thinking. Yes it will.
How do you propose that the EU differentiates between Scots and U.K. citizens?
Who cares we have hearts we will not refuse sick people treatment.
It’s fine on an individual level but more challenging when you aggregate. Of course no one denies emergency medicine and acute care, but to have an open door policy on chronic care is a significant financial commitment. I’d rather see that money spent on better education or housing or whatever for taxpayers
We would not want to be seen to be isolationist , it really is very poor show. Scotland wants to be part of Europe.
Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.
This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.
Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."
That would be eminently sensible. Should Mr Johnson win handsomly, he has a mandate for No Deal if necessary, and a strong negotiating position. Should Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats win, then the people have spoken, and they want another referendum.
The big issue is what happens if - say - the Conservatives and the Brexit Party handily outpoll Lab + LD + SNP + PC + G, but have fewer seats.
Or if there is (again) no majority for any particular outcome.
What an unpleasant man. Is that an actual journalist?
She is used to patsies and no questions being asked , you can see the shock in her face at actually being asked a non prepared question. Lights on but no-one in.
For goodness sake, why? Healthcare is not sweeties, you don't dish it out because you like somebody.
As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying for this largesse....
Nicola obviosly hoping that this will be reciprocated for Scots people when visiting the EU. Then she'll have another area where you get a better deal being Scottish
That seems unlikely to happen.
Typical self seeking unionist me me thinking. Yes it will.
How do you propose that the EU differentiates between Scots and U.K. citizens?
Who cares we have hearts we will not refuse sick people treatment.
It’s fine on an individual level but more challenging when you aggregate. Of course no one denies emergency medicine and acute care, but to have an open door policy on chronic care is a significant financial commitment. I’d rather see that money spent on better education or housing or whatever for taxpayers
We would not want to be seen to be isolationist , it really is very poor show. Scotland wants to be part of Europe.
Many parts of the EU charge U.K. citizens at present , sometimes with reimbursement via EHIC. asking people to contribute to the cost of their care, either via taxation or directly, is not unreasonable
You make a good point that seems to have been missed. This isn't about being a poor leader an anti semite or a Marxist but he's about the flakiest member of Parliament on Brexit there is. While all other parties bust a gut to stop us leaving he was on holiday. We need a leader who is committed
However what his letter has done is changed the dynamics dramatically. We are no longer looking at Johnson's gimmicks threats and stunts. We are now concentrating on how to put a stop to him and we are now significantly closer
Swinson having a car crash interview on Channel 4 news, pretty much caught lying about a personal conversation with Harriet Harman going behind Corbyn's back to become leader. If this is Krishnan taking her to the cleaners imagine what a top class interviewer would do. Really think those on the fence will vote Lib Dem despite not because of her.
I have said on here previously and repeat again she is an absolute duffer.
Swinson having a car crash interview on Channel 4 news, pretty much caught lying about a personal conversation with Harriet Harman going behind Corbyn's back to become leader. If this is Krishnan taking her to the cleaners imagine what a top class interviewer would do. Really think those on the fence will vote Lib Dem despite not because of her.
Must be a different ch4 interview to the one I watched, you are not an objective commentator nor am I but your view is completely rubbish she handled the interview well and a damn sight better than the labour front bench spokesman that followed.
A 'Brexit election' would not solve the Brexit problem because the issue could not be kept to Brexit in the campaign. For that reason, if it is to go back to the people, it would need to be another referendum.
Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.
This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.
Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."
That would be eminently sensible. Should Mr Johnson win handsomly, he has a mandate for No Deal if necessary, and a strong negotiating position. Should Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats win, then the people have spoken, and they want another referendum.
The big issue is what happens if - say - the Conservatives and the Brexit Party handily outpoll Lab + LD + SNP + PC + G, but have fewer seats.
Or if there is (again) no majority for any particular outcome.
Lib Dems have no hope of winning anything
Not even Orkney & Shetland?
Well you were talking about them being the government, they may end up with similar amount as they have now and perhaps a few more but will be miles and miles from being of any importance.
For goodness sake, why? Healthcare is not sweeties, you don't dish it out because you like somebody.
As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying for this largesse....
Nicola obviosly hoping that this will be reciprocated for Scots people when visiting the EU. Then she'll have another area where you get a better deal being Scottish
That seems unlikely to happen.
Typical self seeking unionist me me thinking. Yes it will.
How do you propose that the EU differentiates between Scots and U.K. citizens?
Well, if the English are having blue passports, how about the Scots having tartan passports?
Ydoethur, we will have EU ones so will not be an issue for long, or we could put the boot in and go back to real Black ones.
The think cardboard passports, like we used to have?
Sure, but only if the UK wants to leave the IACO which mandates these things.
Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.
This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.
Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."
That would be eminently sensible. Should Mr Johnson win handsomly, he has a mandate for No Deal if necessary, and a strong negotiating position. Should Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats win, then the people have spoken, and they want another referendum.
The big issue is what happens if - say - the Conservatives and the Brexit Party handily outpoll Lab + LD + SNP + PC + G, but have fewer seats.
Or if there is (again) no majority for any particular outcome.
Lib Dems have no hope of winning anything
Not even Orkney & Shetland?
Well you were talking about them being the government, they may end up with similar amount as they have now and perhaps a few more but will be miles and miles from being of any importance.
I was sketching the wide range of possible outcomes, from Johnson with a handsome majority, to Swison striding into Downing Street.
A 'Brexit election' would not solve the Brexit problem because the issue could not be kept to Brexit in the campaign. For that reason, if it is to go back to the people, it would need to be another referendum.
Twitter is worse than a school playground, and why on earth is Facebook poking in here?
Agreed. Last thing I want here is to be linked to Facebook. If it somehow links to who I am on Facebook, that will be last time I post on here.
Vanilla adde the Facebook button. I have no idea what it does, but to play it safe I won't be pressing it.
I've just pressed it on your post-it took me to my FaceAche page to share your post. Is there no way you can bin it off? I prefer to keep my social media from talking to each other, to be honest.
There's an interesting thing here in that Brexit makes Scottish independence harder - you'd be a new country, and yet it makes it easier in terms of you'll get it through.
I imagine that there might be SNP factions which urge Leave - incite the rebellion, and those that urge Remain - smoothly does it. Is this a thing?
A 'Brexit election' would not solve the Brexit problem because the issue could not be kept to Brexit in the campaign. For that reason, if it is to go back to the people, it would need to be another referendum.
A 'Brexit election' would not solve the Brexit problem because the issue could not be kept to Brexit in the campaign. For that reason, if it is to go back to the people, it would need to be another referendum.
A 'Brexit election' would not solve the Brexit problem because the issue could not be kept to Brexit in the campaign. For that reason, if it is to go back to the people, it would need to be another referendum.
Anyway, sod politics, off to the British Fireworks Championships in Plymouth. The past six winners, going head to head over two nights. Should be a belter!
I'm just waiting for the explination as to why the SNP making the NHS free to use for Europeans post Brexit is really evidence of their small minded xenophobic inward looking destructive nationalism.
I'm sure the usual suspects are working on the article now.
A 'Brexit election' would not solve the Brexit problem because the issue could not be kept to Brexit in the campaign. For that reason, if it is to go back to the people, it would need to be another referendum.
A 'Brexit election' would not solve the Brexit problem because the issue could not be kept to Brexit in the campaign. For that reason, if it is to go back to the people, it would need to be another referendum.
Twitter is worse than a school playground, and why on earth is Facebook poking in here?
Agreed. Last thing I want here is to be linked to Facebook. If it somehow links to who I am on Facebook, that will be last time I post on here.
Vanilla adde the Facebook button. I have no idea what it does, but to play it safe I won't be pressing it.
It says if you log in to FB, you can automatically share or retweet or whatever tf they call it the post in question.
Why would you want to? I post very little in FB, and certainly I save my awesome punning and cricketing skills for here. Ripped out of context they would be meaningless anyway.
And now it seems to have disappeared. Has @rcs1000 done something clever or is it a temporary improvement?
Swinson having a car crash interview on Channel 4 news, pretty much caught lying about a personal conversation with Harriet Harman going behind Corbyn's back to become leader. If this is Krishnan taking her to the cleaners imagine what a top class interviewer would do. Really think those on the fence will vote Lib Dem despite not because of her.
I have said on here previously and repeat again she is an absolute duffer.
Yep, Davey would not have floundered like that. I just dont think she comes across as a TV natural or someone that upbeat and likeable. Just very negative vibes.
A 'Brexit election' would not solve the Brexit problem because the issue could not be kept to Brexit in the campaign. For that reason, if it is to go back to the people, it would need to be another referendum.
Twitter is worse than a school playground, and why on earth is Facebook poking in here?
Agreed. Last thing I want here is to be linked to Facebook. If it somehow links to who I am on Facebook, that will be last time I post on here.
Vanilla adde the Facebook button. I have no idea what it does, but to play it safe I won't be pressing it.
I'm still unable to read the comments on politicalbetting.com, which is the site I used to use and where the last comment was at the top, etc, etc. As when accessing PB in the last 5-6 years, I'm using a Lenovo laptop with Firefox and Windows 7.
and I notice that if I make a draft comment but decide not to post it, and just delete it, the text is still there if I reload the page or do all sorts of things. It's even there if I come back later and want to post a comment; the old text is at the top of the comment box.
Private Eye once revealed I think that Facebook spies on users' thoughts by doing this. One can write something on screen, decide not to send it in a message but Facebook knows exactly what was written. If you drafted a message three times, and still didn't send it, FB probably has three sets of text.
So I'm not at all happy with Vanilla doing the same. It's probably breaching all sorts of UK and EU laws ... but maybe not any US laws as they don't seem to take electronic privacy seriously at all (spam is still legal up to a point).
I'm just waiting for the explination as to why the SNP making the NHS free to use for Europeans post Brexit is really evidence of their small minded xenophobic inward looking destructive nationalism.
I'm sure the usual suspects are working on the article now.
A 'Brexit election' would not solve the Brexit problem because the issue could not be kept to Brexit in the campaign. For that reason, if it is to go back to the people, it would need to be another referendum.
Twitter is worse than a school playground, and why on earth is Facebook poking in here?
Agreed. Last thing I want here is to be linked to Facebook. If it somehow links to who I am on Facebook, that will be last time I post on here.
Vanilla adde the Facebook button. I have no idea what it does, but to play it safe I won't be pressing it.
It says if you log in to FB, you can automatically share or retweet or whatever tf they call it the post in question.
So if I don’t press the Facebook button the post doesn’t go there. What happens to the posts quoted. I’m with Mr MM (I think); if my identity is going to be linked on F/B I’m out of here!
And how is that the criminal HRC still able to run around, able even to arrange the murder of a Presidential friend in the safety of a federal prison ?
Comments
http://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/2440747/#Comment_2440747
Last week, when Chancellor of the Exchequer Sajid Javid visited the Prime Minister at Chequers, he brought with him "a stash" of Tignanello. If you haven't heard of it, you're not alone. Boris, however, has been a fan for some time.
During his leadership campaign, he told Politico Playbook: "Someone bought me a crate of Tignanello and I had no idea how expensive it was. I was just glugging it back. It's extraordinary stuff, it was delicious. I discovered later that it was the favourite wine of Meghan Markle. I was so amazed by this wine, I thought, 'What is this stuff?'"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/food-and-drink/news/meghan-boris-love-special-tignanello-flash-new-wine-status-symbol/
The big issue is what happens if - say - the Conservatives and the Brexit Party handily outpoll Lab + LD + SNP + PC + G, but have fewer seats.
Or if there is (again) no majority for any particular outcome.
And consider this - suppose Corbyn’s plan does work out and he becomes PM, has an extension and calls a GE. Either Johnson wins a majority, comes back in and takes us out of the EU without a referendum. Not exactly a triumph. Or we have a hung Parliament in which Corbyn simply stays as PM and refuses to leave . Not exactly a dream scenario.
https://twitter.com/labourlewis/status/1161947674888876032?s=21
Are they Tories ?
But nothing else seems viable as far as I can see.
For David Warner:
ROFLMAOTTCIAAL
https://www.mcdonalds.com/de/de-de/product/hawaii-burger.html
To imagine that I was once afraid that I'd risked too much in opposing CL on Betfair seems inconceivable.
Labour are in a very strange place. They're not of course alone in that.
Lied about his links with Holocaust deniers and anti semites
Lied about his part in a memorial service for a terrorist cell, even when confronted with a photograph
Lied about the number of seats in a train
Lied about his manifesto costings
Lied about his plans for student loans
Lied about his links with East Germany
Lied to his wives about his girlfriends
Lied about the reasons for the collapse of his marriage
Lied about the reasons why he wouldn't talk to Theresa May
Lied about his reasons for voting down the Withdrawal Agreement.
Now call me Mr Suspicious, but I'm going to say Swinson has every reason to be doubtful about his integrity.
True, he is marginally more honest than Johnson. But that's like saying someone has more financial integrity than Allen Stanford.
We are headed for No Deal
If you are going to NI as an individual, travel cards are worth a look, Translink sell day, weekly and monthly cards. They are zoned so a zone 4 will take you to Giants Causeway, Londonderry (unless i went to the wrong part it was mostly boarded up!) and back to Belfast for £16.50! Given the milege i thought this was good. You have to buy the ilink tickets in advance, i only discovered this a few days in advance but they send them through the post within a couple of days! I like NI and have not experienced a problem given the troubles. I plan to visit Belfast Castle tommorow before i fly back to England. The flight by the way is pretty short and nobody even checked my passport in Belfast International airport! I was straight off the plane and 10 minutes early!
Or so.
Corbyn just doesn't care about the EU or Brexit. He'll be a caretaker forever. What Corbyn cares about is revolutionary change in the UK. Robbing the rich and giving to the Labour party, with the poor getting a bit to keep them on-side.
Actually that mis-characterises him - he just wants to hurt the rich and anyone that's smarter than he is. Unfortunately that means we'll all get hurt.
Corbyn aligns himself with terrorists and fringe-groups, and anyone that's small in terms of power. He aligns himself with the idiots of this world.
As you can see I'm a huge fan.
And the answer to any request for an election in September is that you could have called that back in July. Get a 2+ month extension to December 31st then we can talk..
I think the Scottish approach to Europeans needing the NHS is purely pragmatic. The registration of EU nationals is only 30% complete, and there is no easy way in the meantime to sift those who have been resident for years from temporary tourists. Until the registration is completed, it is a sane bit of No Deal planning.
I am not convinced by Boris's planes. Medicines and medical equipment are constrainedby customs and regulatory issues, not traffic jams. Not that I expect any, because most lorries won't go until documentation is complete.
https://twitter.com/snb19692/status/1162015001147785216?s=20
Scotland wants to be part of Europe.
However what his letter has done is changed the dynamics dramatically. We are no longer looking at Johnson's gimmicks threats and stunts. We are now concentrating on how to put a stop to him and we are now significantly closer
(*PS Joe Swinson is getting better by the day)
Sure, but only if the UK wants to leave the IACO which mandates these things.
There's an interesting thing here in that Brexit makes Scottish independence harder - you'd be a new country, and yet it makes it easier in terms of you'll get it through.
I imagine that there might be SNP factions which urge Leave - incite the rebellion, and those that urge Remain - smoothly does it. Is this a thing?
You'd have to give permission first though (and probably sign into your FB account) It wouldn't do it just by clicking on the button.
I'm sure the usual suspects are working on the article now.
And now it seems to have disappeared. Has @rcs1000 done something clever or is it a temporary improvement?
To read comments, I have to use
https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/7880/politicalbetting-com-blog-archive-small-minds-and-brexit-jeremy-corbyn-s-latest-gambit/p6?
and I notice that if I make a draft comment but decide not to post it, and just delete it, the text is still there if I reload the page or do all sorts of things. It's even there if I come back later and want to post a comment; the old text is at the top of the comment box.
Private Eye once revealed I think that Facebook spies on users' thoughts by doing this. One can write something on screen, decide not to send it in a message but Facebook knows exactly what was written. If you drafted a message three times, and still didn't send it, FB probably has three sets of text.
So I'm not at all happy with Vanilla doing the same. It's probably breaching all sorts of UK and EU laws ... but maybe not any US laws as they don't seem to take electronic privacy seriously at all (spam is still legal up to a point).
...the way they have with tuition fees?
The news media apparently have the power to crash the economy behind his back:
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/15/trump-economy-recession-stock-market-media-1464577
And how is that the criminal HRC still able to run around, able even to arrange the murder of a Presidential friend in the safety of a federal prison ?