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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Just because TMay found it easy getting MPs to the vote for GE2017 doesn’t mean that it will be the same for Johnson

There is a widespread assumption, based on what happened with Theresa May two and a half years ago, that prime ministers still have the power to the name election date in spite of the FTPA. This is because it is said that the main opposition party will always have to back holding an election or else it will look weak.

Read the full story here

HYUFD

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

Stereotomy

The header is written with the assumption that MPs think there's a more reliable way to avert no deal than a pre-Brexit GE. Is that really true?

williamglenn

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

HYUFD

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

eek

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They can be voting through an Act of Parliament that doesn't allow for a No Deal Brexit.

That also appears to be the initial plan for next week onwards.

Chris

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch ...

You should read the news some time.

Big_G_NorthWales

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They can be voting through an Act of Parliament that doesn't allow for a No Deal Brexit.

That also appears to be the initial plan for next week onwards.

As I said earlier Bercow v Jacob Rees Mogg is going to be pure theatre

SirNorfolkPassmore

Stereotomy said:

The header is written with the assumption that MPs think there's a more reliable way to avert no deal than a pre-Brexit GE. Is that really true?

The better way is presumably to legislate to prevent leaving without a deal by requiring the PM to request an extension. The danger of an early GE is that either the deadline passes whilst the campaign is on, or Johnson obtains a majority sufficient to prevent future legislation preventing no deal Brexit.

No matter how many times he says it HYFUD simply isn't correct to say VONC is the only way to prevent no deal. The PM's hands can be tied by legislation, and Parliament can seize control of its own timetable and legislate without him.

AlastairMeeks

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They can be voting through an Act of Parliament that doesn't allow for a No Deal Brexit.

That also appears to be the initial plan for next week onwards.

If I were drafting it, I would empower a new person, possibly the Speaker, to negotiate on behalf of Britain on the question of whether to extend the Article 50 period and to act on Britain’s behalf. Boris Johnson would have nothing to do.

rcs1000

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

The sneaky thing to do would be to VoNC, immediately give confidence to Ken Clarke, ask for an extension, VoNC Clarke, and the give Boris Johnson confidence again.

All in an afternoon.

Fortunately, MPs aren't that smart.

AndyJS

Corbynites are in favour of a general election despite the fact their average share in the polls is currently 24% compared to 41% at the last GE.

AlastairMeeks

On topic, there are a few marked bets. A 2019 election now looks very much odds against - the markets disagree, so fill your boots. You can forget the idea of a coalition of the unwilling for now because no one is working for that, so lay all its plausible leaders.

blueblue

"Sure that might get round the the act but it would look contrived and that Tory MPs had voted not to have confidence in their own government would be a key campaigning point."

Surely it would be an even bigger campaigning point that Corbyn and Labour had proven themselves to be craven cowards and liars by shirking an election for which they have claimed to be desperate for the last two years!

spudgfsh

AndyJS said:

Corbynites are in favour of a general election despite the fact their average share in the polls is currently 24% compared to 41% at the last GE.

They believe that they will have a repeat of GE17 when they went from 24% to 41% during the campaign. It does strike me that they are still fighting the last election and not considering the next one.

MikeSmithson

From what I can see the first task of the opposition grouping will be to stop the three week conference break which will greatly add to the parliamentary time available.

I never thought I'd say this but thank goodness for John Bercow - someone to curtail the power grab by unlecected 'Cumming and the PM without a mandate. They might be HYUFD's pin up boys but they are acting like dictators.

Yorkcity

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

dixiedean

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

The sneaky thing to do would be to VoNC, immediately give confidence to Ken Clarke, ask for an extension, VoNC Clarke, and the give Boris Johnson confidence again.

All in an afternoon.

Fortunately, MPs aren't that smart.

The really sneaky thing would be for Clarke to Revoke. Give Boris the full 2 years to display his extensive negotiating prowess.

TheScreamingEagles

AlastairMeeks said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They can be voting through an Act of Parliament that doesn't allow for a No Deal Brexit.

That also appears to be the initial plan for next week onwards.

If I were drafting it, I would empower a new person, possibly the Speaker, to negotiate on behalf of Britain on the question of whether to extend the Article 50 period and to act on Britain’s behalf. Boris Johnson would have nothing to do.

In that case they should go the whole hog and make Bercow PM.

surbiton19

TheScreamingEagles said:

AlastairMeeks said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They can be voting through an Act of Parliament that doesn't allow for a No Deal Brexit.

That also appears to be the initial plan for next week onwards.

If I were drafting it, I would empower a new person, possibly the Speaker, to negotiate on behalf of Britain on the question of whether to extend the Article 50 period and to act on Britain’s behalf. Boris Johnson would have nothing to do.

In that case they should go the whole hog and make Bercow PM.

What a good idea.

HYUFD

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They can be voting through an Act of Parliament that doesn't allow for a No Deal Brexit.

That also appears to be the initial plan for next week onwards.

Not if the Executive branch refuses to allow time for it or prorogues Parliament and after the first week of September it is conference season then we are into October before the Commons resumes with No Deal the default on October 31st (assuming the EU does not agree to replace the backstop with a technical solution for the Irish border by then)

tlg86

TheScreamingEagles said:

AlastairMeeks said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They can be voting through an Act of Parliament that doesn't allow for a No Deal Brexit.

That also appears to be the initial plan for next week onwards.

If I were drafting it, I would empower a new person, possibly the Speaker, to negotiate on behalf of Britain on the question of whether to extend the Article 50 period and to act on Britain’s behalf. Boris Johnson would have nothing to do.

In that case they should go the whole hog and make Bercow PM.

You wouldn’t have money on him by any chance?

surbiton19

HYUFD said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They can be voting through an Act of Parliament that doesn't allow for a No Deal Brexit.

That also appears to be the initial plan for next week onwards.

Not if the Executive branch refuses to allow time for it or prorogues Parliament and after the first week of September it is conference season then we are into October before the Commons resumes

They will "capture" a day first - as they did before. Then do whatever they want.

spudgfsh

AlastairMeeks said:

On topic, there are a few marked bets. A 2019 election now looks very much odds against - the markets disagree, so fill your boots. You can forget the idea of a coalition of the unwilling for now because no one is working for that, so lay all its plausible leaders.

on the assumption that there is no deal, I can see him calling an election in the beginning of november (a christmas election) regardless of whether he gets forced into an extension (and earlier if he is forced into an extension).

AlastairMeeks

TheScreamingEagles said:

AlastairMeeks said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They can be voting through an Act of Parliament that doesn't allow for a No Deal Brexit.

That also appears to be the initial plan for next week onwards.

If I were drafting it, I would empower a new person, possibly the Speaker, to negotiate on behalf of Britain on the question of whether to extend the Article 50 period and to act on Britain’s behalf. Boris Johnson would have nothing to do.

In that case they should go the whole hog and make Bercow PM.

The advantage of my route is that you get none of that chest-puffing that comes with a vote of no confidence. And it leaves Boris Johnson stranded in office, which suits absolutely everyone else.

HYUFD

AlastairMeeks said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They can be voting through an Act of Parliament that doesn't allow for a No Deal Brexit.

That also appears to be the initial plan for next week onwards.

If I were drafting it, I would empower a new person, possibly the Speaker, to negotiate on behalf of Britain on the question of whether to extend the Article 50 period and to act on Britain’s behalf. Boris Johnson would have nothing to do.

Unconstitutional, Boris is head of the Executive branch not Bercow who is merely speaker of the legislature.

The Queen appointed Boris not Bercow her Chief Minister in July

TheScreamingEagles

tlg86 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

AlastairMeeks said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They can be voting through an Act of Parliament that doesn't allow for a No Deal Brexit.

That also appears to be the initial plan for next week onwards.

If I were drafting it, I would empower a new person, possibly the Speaker, to negotiate on behalf of Britain on the question of whether to extend the Article 50 period and to act on Britain’s behalf. Boris Johnson would have nothing to do.

In that case they should go the whole hog and make Bercow PM.

You wouldn’t have money on him by any chance?

Well my legendary modesty prevents me from telling you I tipped him at 500/1 and he's now 100/1.

https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1163041029962031104

eek

spudgfsh said:

AlastairMeeks said:

On topic, there are a few marked bets. A 2019 election now looks very much odds against - the markets disagree, so fill your boots. You can forget the idea of a coalition of the unwilling for now because no one is working for that, so lay all its plausible leaders.

on the assumption that there is no deal, I can see him calling an election in the beginning of november (a christmas election) regardless of whether he gets forced into an extension (and earlier if he is forced into an extension).

Once again you assume Boris controls when an election is called.

There are very valid reasons for Labour to delay things until say February if we leave with No Deal...

eek

HYUFD said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They can be voting through an Act of Parliament that doesn't allow for a No Deal Brexit.

That also appears to be the initial plan for next week onwards.

Not if the Executive branch refuses to allow time for it or prorogues Parliament and after the first week of September it is conference season then we are into October before the Commons resumes with No Deal the default on October 31st (assuming the EU does not agree to replace the backstop with a technical solution for the Irish border by then)

Have you read today's news?

tlg86

AlastairMeeks said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

AlastairMeeks said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They can be voting through an Act of Parliament that doesn't allow for a No Deal Brexit.

That also appears to be the initial plan for next week onwards.

If I were drafting it, I would empower a new person, possibly the Speaker, to negotiate on behalf of Britain on the question of whether to extend the Article 50 period and to act on Britain’s behalf. Boris Johnson would have nothing to do.

In that case they should go the whole hog and make Bercow PM.

The advantage of my route is that you get none of that chest-puffing that comes with a vote of no confidence. And it leaves Boris Johnson stranded in office, which suits absolutely everyone else.

What’s to stop Boris going to the palace and saying “send for Bercow”?

And declaring himself LotO.

Sunil_Prasannan

Crush the Brexiteurs!

HYUFD

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

Yes, Boris will refuse to extend again over No Deal as long as he is PM

williamglenn

dixiedean said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

The sneaky thing to do would be to VoNC, immediately give confidence to Ken Clarke, ask for an extension, VoNC Clarke, and the give Boris Johnson confidence again.

All in an afternoon.

Fortunately, MPs aren't that smart.

The really sneaky thing would be for Clarke to Revoke. Give Boris the full 2 years to display his extensive negotiating prowess.

Revocation followed by a General Election could be tougher for the Conservatives than extension followed by a GE. What would their Brexit policy be?

spudgfsh

eek said:

spudgfsh said:

AlastairMeeks said:

On topic, there are a few marked bets. A 2019 election now looks very much odds against - the markets disagree, so fill your boots. You can forget the idea of a coalition of the unwilling for now because no one is working for that, so lay all its plausible leaders.

on the assumption that there is no deal, I can see him calling an election in the beginning of november (a christmas election) regardless of whether he gets forced into an extension (and earlier if he is forced into an extension).

Once again you assume Boris controls when an election is called.

There are very valid reasons for Labour to delay things until say February if we leave with No Deal...

Jeremy Corbyn would want to seize the moment of a no-deal brexit and would, given what he's said on an election in the last year, be forced into it. it would be the moment of greatest opportunity.

kle4

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree, Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

The idea that Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down seems to me to rely on the premise that he would not pursue a course of action which is self destructive to his stated aims, and I don't know that that can be relied upon. "Sorry lads, I know we said we'd all stand if we were not out by now, but Boris really will take us out and needs us to step down to do it, we have to trust him".

MikeSmithson

HYUFD said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

Yes, Boris will refuse to extend again over No Deal as long as he is PM

He might not have that power

AlastairMeeks

tlg86 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

AlastairMeeks said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They can be voting through an Act of Parliament that doesn't allow for a No Deal Brexit.

That also appears to be the initial plan for next week onwards.

If I were drafting it, I would empower a new person, possibly the Speaker, to negotiate on behalf of Britain on the question of whether to extend the Article 50 period and to act on Britain’s behalf. Boris Johnson would have nothing to do.

In that case they should go the whole hog and make Bercow PM.

The advantage of my route is that you get none of that chest-puffing that comes with a vote of no confidence. And it leaves Boris Johnson stranded in office, which suits absolutely everyone else.

What’s to stop Boris going to the palace and saying “send for Bercow”?

And declaring himself LotO.

He can resign. He doesn’t get to choose his replacement by himself, especially if there is no indication that person wants to be Prime Minister. Parliament can choose who speaks for it on a given subject. That may or may not be the same as the person it wishes to lead the government.

HYUFD

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

Yes, Boris will refuse to extend again over No Deal as long as he is PM

He might not have that power

He will not legislate in October and will prorogue Parliament if necessary to November to ensure no further extension can be passed.

3 years after Leave won the referendum Brexit will be delivered

kle4

AlastairMeeks said:

On topic, there are a few marked bets. A 2019 election now looks very much odds against - the markets disagree, so fill your boots. You can forget the idea of a coalition of the unwilling for now because no one is working for that, so lay all its plausible leaders.

I get the latter point, and would very much welcome not having an election this year, but I still very much fear they will blunder their way into one.

algarkirk

AlastairMeeks said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They can be voting through an Act of Parliament that doesn't allow for a No Deal Brexit.

That also appears to be the initial plan for next week onwards.

If I were drafting it, I would empower a new person, possibly the Speaker, to negotiate on behalf of Britain on the question of whether to extend the Article 50 period and to act on Britain’s behalf. Boris Johnson would have nothing to do.

I think I would want a constitutional lawyer or two to say if that's possible. It sounds like usurping Crown Prerogative at first glance.

HYUFD

williamglenn said:

dixiedean said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

The sneaky thing to do would be to VoNC, immediately give confidence to Ken Clarke, ask for an extension, VoNC Clarke, and the give Boris Johnson confidence again.

All in an afternoon.

Fortunately, MPs aren't that smart.

The really sneaky thing would be for Clarke to Revoke. Give Boris the full 2 years to display his extensive negotiating prowess.

Revocation followed by a General Election could be tougher for the Conservatives than extension followed by a GE. What would their Brexit policy be?

There is no majority in the Commons for Revoke as the indicative votes proved

AlastairMeeks

HYUFD said:

AlastairMeeks said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They can be voting through an Act of Parliament that doesn't allow for a No Deal Brexit.

That also appears to be the initial plan for next week onwards.

If I were drafting it, I would empower a new person, possibly the Speaker, to negotiate on behalf of Britain on the question of whether to extend the Article 50 period and to act on Britain’s behalf. Boris Johnson would have nothing to do.

Unconstitutional, Boris is head of the Executive branch not Bercow who is merely speaker of the legislature.

The Queen appointed Boris not Bercow her Chief Minister in July

The scope of the Prime Minister’s powers are a matter for Parliament. There is nothing unconstitutional about Parliament redefining them.

NB “unconstitutional” is suspending democracy, as your hero repeatedly refuses to rule out trying to do.

AlastairMeeks

kle4 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

On topic, there are a few marked bets. A 2019 election now looks very much odds against - the markets disagree, so fill your boots. You can forget the idea of a coalition of the unwilling for now because no one is working for that, so lay all its plausible leaders.

I get the latter point, and would very much welcome not having an election this year, but I still very much fear they will blunder their way into one.

It’s possible. Not odds on though.

eek

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

dixiedean said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

The sneaky thing to do would be to VoNC, immediately give confidence to Ken Clarke, ask for an extension, VoNC Clarke, and the give Boris Johnson confidence again.

All in an afternoon.

Fortunately, MPs aren't that smart.

The really sneaky thing would be for Clarke to Revoke. Give Boris the full 2 years to display his extensive negotiating prowess.

Revocation followed by a General Election could be tougher for the Conservatives than extension followed by a GE. What would their Brexit policy be?

There is no majority in the Commons for Revoke as the indicative votes proved

That was while the alternative option was May's deal. Views may have changed now the other option is No Deal.

AlastairMeeks

algarkirk said:

AlastairMeeks said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They can be voting through an Act of Parliament that doesn't allow for a No Deal Brexit.

That also appears to be the initial plan for next week onwards.

If I were drafting it, I would empower a new person, possibly the Speaker, to negotiate on behalf of Britain on the question of whether to extend the Article 50 period and to act on Britain’s behalf. Boris Johnson would have nothing to do.

I think I would want a constitutional lawyer or two to say if that's possible. It sounds like usurping Crown Prerogative at first glance.

Crown Prerogative is something Parliament can whittle away. A good recent example of that is the Fixed Term Parliaments Act.

tlg86

AlastairMeeks said:

tlg86 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

AlastairMeeks said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They can be voting through an Act of Parliament that doesn't allow for a No Deal Brexit.

That also appears to be the initial plan for next week onwards.

If I were drafting it, I would empower a new person, possibly the Speaker, to negotiate on behalf of Britain on the question of whether to extend the Article 50 period and to act on Britain’s behalf. Boris Johnson would have nothing to do.

In that case they should go the whole hog and make Bercow PM.

The advantage of my route is that you get none of that chest-puffing that comes with a vote of no confidence. And it leaves Boris Johnson stranded in office, which suits absolutely everyone else.

What’s to stop Boris going to the palace and saying “send for Bercow”?

And declaring himself LotO.

He can resign. He doesn’t get to choose his replacement by himself, especially if there is no indication that person wants to be Prime Minister. Parliament can choose who speaks for it on a given subject. That may or may not be the same as the person it wishes to lead the government.

Her Maj could be put in an interesting position if no one steps forward to be PM. How long could the queen leave it before dissolving parliament? I guess long enough to allow Bercow to do what he has to do.

kle4

HYUFD said:

AlastairMeeks said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They can be voting through an Act of Parliament that doesn't allow for a No Deal Brexit.

That also appears to be the initial plan for next week onwards.

If I were drafting it, I would empower a new person, possibly the Speaker, to negotiate on behalf of Britain on the question of whether to extend the Article 50 period and to act on Britain’s behalf. Boris Johnson would have nothing to do.

Unconstitutional, Boris is head of the Executive branch not Bercow who is merely speaker of the legislature.

The Queen appointed Boris not Bercow her Chief Minister in July

That may be so, and it sounds a daft idea to me, but people are throwing around plenty ideas which might well test the legal norms we take for granted. I mean, parliament setting up an alternative assembly surely would not be legal, but if you win out in a societal struggle it beomes legal in thee end - Charles I was probably right about the court not having the power to try him, but it didn't stop him being executed by it. I dread to think what would happen if parliament sets up its own pseudo pm, perhaps during a prorogation.

kle4

tlg86 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

AlastairMeeks said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They can be voting through an Act of Parliament that doesn't allow for a No Deal Brexit.

That also appears to be the initial plan for next week onwards.

If I were drafting it, I would empower a new person, possibly the Speaker, to negotiate on behalf of Britain on the question of whether to extend the Article 50 period and to act on Britain’s behalf. Boris Johnson would have nothing to do.

In that case they should go the whole hog and make Bercow PM.

The advantage of my route is that you get none of that chest-puffing that comes with a vote of no confidence. And it leaves Boris Johnson stranded in office, which suits absolutely everyone else.

What’s to stop Boris going to the palace and saying “send for Bercow”?

And declaring himself LotO.

Her Majesty exasperatedly telling him not to take the piss?

AlastairMeeks

It feels like a very long time ago now that Leavers kept quacking on about Parliamentary sovereignty.

Sunil_Prasannan

HYUFD said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

Yes, Boris will refuse to extend again over No Deal as long as he is PM

He might not have that power

He will not legislate in October and will prorogue Parliament if necessary to November to ensure no further extension can be passed.

3 years after Leave won the referendum Brexit will be delivered

Proroguing Parliament? Like Charles I?

Big_G_NorthWales

My concern in all of this is that with the exception of Corbyn each leader wants to stop brexit completely, not just no deal

Anyone acting as a defacto leader needs to prevent no deal, but must also prevent no brexit by agreeing a deal with the EU. Anything else is just wrong for democracy

Yorkcity

kle4 said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree, Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

The idea that Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down seems to me to rely on the premise that he would not pursue a course of action which is self destructive to his stated aims, and I don't know that that can be relied upon. "Sorry lads, I know we said we'd all stand if we were not out by now, but Boris really will take us out and needs us to step down to do it, we have to trust him".

I agree with HYFUD that Johnson will not extend past the 311019.
So no deal it is , therefore Farage and the Brexit Party, have achieved their aim.
So no requirement in a GE to stand against the Conservative party.

kle4

Since MPs cannot agree on a person I'm surprised they aren't suggesting a Committee of Safety to run the country or something.

Scratch that, I guess that was one of Boles' plans and Lucas' too.

AlastairMeeks

Big_G_NorthWales said:

My concern in all of this is that with the exception of Corbyn each leader wants to stop brexit completely, not just no deal

Anyone acting as a defacto leader needs to prevent no deal, but must also prevent no brexit by agreeing a deal with the EU. Anything else is just wrong for democracy

A deal was agreed. No one wanted it.

We have to start from where we are, which is a bad place. There is no mandate for no deal Brexit or for revoke. No one seriously wants to try for a different deal. So a fresh mandate is needed. It’s not good but all the other options are worse.

kle4

Yorkcity said:

kle4 said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree, Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

The idea that Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down seems to me to rely on the premise that he would not pursue a course of action which is self destructive to his stated aims, and I don't know that that can be relied upon. "Sorry lads, I know we said we'd all stand if we were not out by now, but Boris really will take us out and needs us to step down to do it, we have to trust him".

I agree with HYFUD that Johnson will not extend past the 311019.
So no deal it is , therefore Farage and the Brexit Party, have achieved their aim.
So no requirement in a GE to stand against the Conservative party.

Granted it is so convoluted and many thanks not necessarily easy or legal are being suggested, but I still think Parliament will manage to get an extension or a GE before then somehow. Bercow will be as accomodating as he needs to be to permit it, and if there's a GE before no deal Brexit then BXP will stand.

And even if it happens afterwards and BXP do not stand, what point is there in voting for the Tories once Brexit has been acheived? They no longer care about the Union (not enough at any rate, they would happily sacrifice it for Brexit) nor do they have any way to distinguishing themselves from Labour in the splashing cash around stakes.

Big_G_NorthWales

Yorkcity said:

kle4 said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree, Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

The idea that Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down seems to me to rely on the premise that he would not pursue a course of action which is self destructive to his stated aims, and I don't know that that can be relied upon. "Sorry lads, I know we said we'd all stand if we were not out by now, but Boris really will take us out and needs us to step down to do it, we have to trust him".

I agree with HYFUD that Johnson will not extend past the 311019.
So no deal it is , therefore Farage and the Brexit Party, have achieved their aim.
So no requirement in a GE to stand against the Conservative party.

The big unknown is just how the voters are going to act

Boris has a clear position but his opposition are divided and at this rate the remain vote will dilute between labour, lib dems, greens, snp and plaid

NickPalmer

After 2 polls showing Biden losing heavily to Warren, two more show exactly the opposite. Can't help feeling the US polling industry is the Wild West.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/2020_democratic_presidential_nomination-6730.html

Charles

MikeSmithson said:

From what I can see the first task of the opposition grouping will be to stop the three week conference break which will greatly add to the parliamentary time available.

I never thought I'd say this but thank goodness for John Bercow - someone to curtail the power grab by unlecected 'Cumming and the PM without a mandate. They might be HYUFD's pin up boys but they are acting like dictators.

What, precisely, has the PM done which acting “like a dictator”?

Big_G_NorthWales

AlastairMeeks said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

My concern in all of this is that with the exception of Corbyn each leader wants to stop brexit completely, not just no deal

Anyone acting as a defacto leader needs to prevent no deal, but must also prevent no brexit by agreeing a deal with the EU. Anything else is just wrong for democracy

A deal was agreed. No one wanted it.

We have to start from where we are, which is a bad place. There is no mandate for no deal Brexit or for revoke. No one seriously wants to try for a different deal. So a fresh mandate is needed. It’s not good but all the other options are worse.

And we can still end deadlocked

kle4

AlastairMeeks said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

My concern in all of this is that with the exception of Corbyn each leader wants to stop brexit completely, not just no deal

Anyone acting as a defacto leader needs to prevent no deal, but must also prevent no brexit by agreeing a deal with the EU. Anything else is just wrong for democracy

A deal was agreed. No one wanted it.

We have to start from where we are, which is a bad place. There is no mandate for no deal Brexit or for revoke. No one seriously wants to try for a different deal. So a fresh mandate is needed. It’s not good but all the other options are worse.

45% of voting MPs wanted the deal, as indicated by their votes. I don't think questions of mandate really matter, since either side will just make up what there is a mandate for to justify pursuing, without compromise, what they personally want.

However, I agree no one seems to seriously want to try for a different deal - the 'do or die' attitude makes that plain, by effectively ruling out even a good new deal in time - and that we have to start where we are, not where we wish we were, whether one is coming from a remainer or a leaver perspective. As much as I don't think mandate matters in this anymore, seeking something to present as a mandate seems the only way to even potentially get the present situation to change.

It might not, which is why I'd much rather our present MPs do the admittedly very hard job they were asked to do for a very divided country, and come up with something without coming back to us, particularly when we know plenty of them won't respond to a 'wrong' answer, but something has to change.

HYUFD

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

Yes, Boris will refuse to extend again over No Deal as long as he is PM

He might not have that power

He will not legislate in October and will prorogue Parliament if necessary to November to ensure no further extension can be passed.

3 years after Leave won the referendum Brexit will be delivered

Proroguing Parliament? Like Charles I?

A Parliament which refuses to respect the will of the people yes, not a Parliament preventing rule by divine right

oxfordsimon

Big_G_NorthWales said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

My concern in all of this is that with the exception of Corbyn each leader wants to stop brexit completely, not just no deal

Anyone acting as a defacto leader needs to prevent no deal, but must also prevent no brexit by agreeing a deal with the EU. Anything else is just wrong for democracy

A deal was agreed. No one wanted it.

We have to start from where we are, which is a bad place. There is no mandate for no deal Brexit or for revoke. No one seriously wants to try for a different deal. So a fresh mandate is needed. It’s not good but all the other options are worse.

And we can still end deadlocked

Not only can, almost certainly will

AnneJGP

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

The sneaky thing to do would be to VoNC, immediately give confidence to Ken Clarke, ask for an extension, VoNC Clarke, and the give Boris Johnson confidence again.

All in an afternoon.

Fortunately, MPs aren't that smart.

I've been wondering whether there is any way the MPs could find they've boxed themselves in and have legislated to pass Mrs May's Deal, without having intended to do so. Sort of hoist with their own petard.

That would be pleasing, in many ways. I'm fairly sure that what they mean by Not leaving without a deal (but not that deal) is they actually mean to Remain.

Good evening, everyone.

kle4

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

Yes, Boris will refuse to extend again over No Deal as long as he is PM

He might not have that power

He will not legislate in October and will prorogue Parliament if necessary to November to ensure no further extension can be passed.

3 years after Leave won the referendum Brexit will be delivered

Proroguing Parliament? Like Charles I?

A Parliament which refuses to respect the will of the people yes, not a Parliament preventing rule by divine right

The will of Boris.

tlg86

AlastairMeeks said:

It feels like a very long time ago now that Leavers kept quacking on about Parliamentary sovereignty.

It's also a long time since remainers were telling us that democracy doesn't stop. It hasn't, and at some point parliament must face the electorate.

AlastairMeeks

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

Yes, Boris will refuse to extend again over No Deal as long as he is PM

He might not have that power

He will not legislate in October and will prorogue Parliament if necessary to November to ensure no further extension can be passed.

3 years after Leave won the referendum Brexit will be delivered

Proroguing Parliament? Like Charles I?

A Parliament which refuses to respect the will of the people yes, not a Parliament preventing rule by divine right

You must have better divination of the chicken entrails than me if you get no deal Brexit on 31 October 2019 as part of referendum vote in 2016. To anyone not completely one-eyed, it looks like a coup by an unelected Prime Minister without a Parliamentary majority for a prospectus no one voted for.

Charles

HYUFD said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

Yes, Boris will refuse to extend again over No Deal as long as he is PM

He might not have that power

He will not legislate in October and will prorogue Parliament if necessary to November to ensure no further extension can be passed.

3 years after Leave won the referendum Brexit will be delivered

He’s not going to prorogue

eek

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

Yes, Boris will refuse to extend again over No Deal as long as he is PM

He might not have that power

He will not legislate in October and will prorogue Parliament if necessary to November to ensure no further extension can be passed.

3 years after Leave won the referendum Brexit will be delivered

Proroguing Parliament? Like Charles I?

A Parliament which refuses to respect the will of the people yes, not a Parliament preventing rule by divine right

Given that my MP was elected to ensure a soft (negotiated by Labour) Brexit as were a lot of other MPs none of them are refusing to respect the will of the people - they are trying to respect the will of the constituents who voted for a softer Brexit...

kle4

AnneJGP said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

The sneaky thing to do would be to VoNC, immediately give confidence to Ken Clarke, ask for an extension, VoNC Clarke, and the give Boris Johnson confidence again.

All in an afternoon.

Fortunately, MPs aren't that smart.

I'm fairly sure that what they mean by Not leaving without a deal (but not that deal) is they actually mean to Remain.

Of course it is. Fortunately for them the long long delay and escalation of opinion on both sides makes their obvious falsity in wanting to stop no deal no matter what easier to sell.

AlastairMeeks

tlg86 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

It feels like a very long time ago now that Leavers kept quacking on about Parliamentary sovereignty.

It's also a long time since remainers were telling us that democracy doesn't stop. It hasn't, and at some point parliament must face the electorate.

In a country where a majority consistently think Brexit was a mistake, the MPs responsible for curbing the excesses of an unelected government should be ok.

HYUFD

eek said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

dixiedean said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

The sneaky thing to do would be to VoNC, immediately give confidence to Ken Clarke, ask for an extension, VoNC Clarke, and the give Boris Johnson confidence again.

All in an afternoon.

Fortunately, MPs aren't that smart.

The really sneaky thing would be for Clarke to Revoke. Give Boris the full 2 years to display his extensive negotiating prowess.

Revocation followed by a General Election could be tougher for the Conservatives than extension followed by a GE. What would their Brexit policy be?

There is no majority in the Commons for Revoke as the indicative votes proved

That was while the alternative option was May's deal. Views may have changed now the other option is No Deal.

The only thing the Commons has voted for is the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop, exactly as Boris is aiming for

Gallowgate

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

Yes, Boris will refuse to extend again over No Deal as long as he is PM

He might not have that power

He will not legislate in October and will prorogue Parliament if necessary to November to ensure no further extension can be passed.

3 years after Leave won the referendum Brexit will be delivered

Proroguing Parliament? Like Charles I?

A Parliament which refuses to respect the will of the people yes, not a Parliament preventing rule by divine right

Do you not realise how ridiculous that sentence sounds? Really?

F*ck me.

Jonathan

Time for calm nerves, wise heads and bitten tongues. Instead positions are increasingly entrenched and rhetoric incendiary. Who is going to start to heal this?

HYUFD

Gallowgate said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

Yes, Boris will refuse to extend again over No Deal as long as he is PM

He might not have that power

He will not legislate in October and will prorogue Parliament if necessary to November to ensure no further extension can be passed.

3 years after Leave won the referendum Brexit will be delivered

Proroguing Parliament? Like Charles I?

A Parliament which refuses to respect the will of the people yes, not a Parliament preventing rule by divine right

Do you not realise how ridiculous that sentence sounds? Really?

F*ck me.

Diehard Remainers would rather push us towards near civil war than respect the Leave vote, hence they refused to vote for the Withdrawal Agreement and now refuse to vote for No Deal

kle4

Charles said:

HYUFD said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

Yes, Boris will refuse to extend again over No Deal as long as he is PM

He might not have that power

He will not legislate in October and will prorogue Parliament if necessary to November to ensure no further extension can be passed.

3 years after Leave won the referendum Brexit will be delivered

He’s not going to prorogue

You're certain of that, HYUFD is certain he will if he has to: who to believe?

I think Boris would do anything if he thinks it will give him more time as PM, and as his time is dependent on securing or being seen to try to secure no deal, he would consider any action to do so. That his adoring supporters are fully committed to justifying anything including prorogation means it cannot be ruled out.

eristdoof

HYUFD said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

dixiedean said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

The sneaky thing to do would be to VoNC, immediately give confidence to Ken Clarke, ask for an extension, VoNC Clarke, and the give Boris Johnson confidence again.

All in an afternoon.

Fortunately, MPs aren't that smart.

The really sneaky thing would be for Clarke to Revoke. Give Boris the full 2 years to display his extensive negotiating prowess.

Revocation followed by a General Election could be tougher for the Conservatives than extension followed by a GE. What would their Brexit policy be?

There is no majority in the Commons for Revoke as the indicative votes proved

That was while the alternative option was May's deal. Views may have changed now the other option is No Deal.

The only thing the Commons has voted for is the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop, exactly as Boris is aiming for

"the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop" is a unicorn

rpjs

tlg86 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

tlg86 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

AlastairMeeks said:

eek said:

They can be voting through an Act of Parliament that doesn't allow for a No Deal Brexit.

That also appears to be the initial plan for next week onwards.

If I were drafting it, I would empower a new person, possibly the Speaker, to negotiate on behalf of Britain on the question of whether to extend the Article 50 period and to act on Britain’s behalf. Boris Johnson would have nothing to do.

In that case they should go the whole hog and make Bercow PM.

The advantage of my route is that you get none of that chest-puffing that comes with a vote of no confidence. And it leaves Boris Johnson stranded in office, which suits absolutely everyone else.

What’s to stop Boris going to the palace and saying “send for Bercow”?

And declaring himself LotO.

He can resign. He doesn’t get to choose his replacement by himself, especially if there is no indication that person wants to be Prime Minister. Parliament can choose who speaks for it on a given subject. That may or may not be the same as the person it wishes to lead the government.

Her Maj could be put in an interesting position if no one steps forward to be PM. How long could the queen leave it before dissolving parliament? I guess long enough to allow Bercow to do what he has to do.

I don't think anyone "steps forward" to be PM. They are summoned by the monarch and asked to form a government, and they can decline that commission. Who the monarch summons is usually advised to the monarch by the outgoing PM. However, it seems that when Eden resigned after Suez, the queen sought advice from "grandees" of the Tory party. It's unclear to me whether Eden offered advice on his successor or not, but it does seem that in theory the monarch can take advice as they see fit.

The queen no longer has any power to dissolve Parliament. Parliament can only be dissolved under one of the three ways specified by the FPTA: automatically after five years, on the vote of 2/3 of MPs for an early election, or fourteen days after a VONC with no subsequent VOC having been passed. Actually, strictly speaking those three ways trigger the process of setting a date for a new general election, and Parliament is dissolved twenty-five working days before that date.

Charles

AlastairMeeks said:

It feels like a very long time ago now that Leavers kept quacking on about Parliamentary sovereignty.

Parliamentary sovereign is not about parliament trying to unbalance the constitution

These things have evolved in a way that broadly works.

There is a very simple process available to Parliament if they don’t like the executive’s policy: a VONC.

Everything else is bullshit because they don’t want to follow the rules

Big_G_NorthWales

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

Yes, Boris will refuse to extend again over No Deal as long as he is PM

He might not have that power

He will not legislate in October and will prorogue Parliament if necessary to November to ensure no further extension can be passed.

3 years after Leave won the referendum Brexit will be delivered

Proroguing Parliament? Like Charles I?

A Parliament which refuses to respect the will of the people yes, not a Parliament preventing rule by divine right

The problem is the will of the people was to leave but not cause an economic armageddon.

No deal as part of negotiation is every day practice but there comes a moment when no deal is lunacy.

That happens on the 31st October unless the EU come up with a deal or the HOC finds a way to mitigate it

HYUFD

Charles said:

HYUFD said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

Yes, Boris will refuse to extend again over No Deal as long as he is PM

He might not have that power

He will not legislate in October and will prorogue Parliament if necessary to November to ensure no further extension can be passed.

3 years after Leave won the referendum Brexit will be delivered

He’s not going to prorogue

He will if necessary from who I know in camp Boris

kle4

HYUFD said:

Gallowgate said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

Yes, Boris will refuse to extend again over No Deal as long as he is PM

He might not have that power

He will not legislate in October and will prorogue Parliament if necessary to November to ensure no further extension can be passed.

3 years after Leave won the referendum Brexit will be delivered

Proroguing Parliament? Like Charles I?

A Parliament which refuses to respect the will of the people yes, not a Parliament preventing rule by divine right

Do you not realise how ridiculous that sentence sounds? Really?

F*ck me.

Diehard Remainers would rather push us towards near civil war than respect the Leave vote, hence they refused to vote for the Withdrawal Agreement and now refuse to vote for No Deal

But it is totally ok to do what the no dealers who also refused to vote for the WA want of course.

Gallowgate

HYUFD said:

Gallowgate said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

Yes, Boris will refuse to extend again over No Deal as long as he is PM

He might not have that power

He will not legislate in October and will prorogue Parliament if necessary to November to ensure no further extension can be passed.

3 years after Leave won the referendum Brexit will be delivered

Proroguing Parliament? Like Charles I?

A Parliament which refuses to respect the will of the people yes, not a Parliament preventing rule by divine right

Do you not realise how ridiculous that sentence sounds? Really?

F*ck me.

Diehard Remainers would rather push us towards near civil war than respect the Leave vote, hence they refused to vote for the Withdrawal Agreement and now refuse to vote for No Deal

MPs were elected in 2017 on fresh mandates. If your football team believes that these 'diehard remainers' are somehow not representing their constituents then we should have an election.

Trying to force Brexit through before an election means you aren't really confident it is the will of the people anyway.

Frit.

HYUFD

AlastairMeeks said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

Yes, Boris will refuse to extend again over No Deal as long as he is PM

He might not have that power

He will not legislate in October and will prorogue Parliament if necessary to November to ensure no further extension can be passed.

3 years after Leave won the referendum Brexit will be delivered

Proroguing Parliament? Like Charles I?

A Parliament which refuses to respect the will of the people yes, not a Parliament preventing rule by divine right

You must have better divination of the chicken entrails than me if you get no deal Brexit on 31 October 2019 as part of referendum vote in 2016. To anyone not completely one-eyed, it looks like a coup by an unelected Prime Minister without a Parliamentary majority for a prospectus no one voted for.

The only prospectus voted for was to Leave the EU, there was no question about Leaving but only with a Deal

AlastairMeeks

Charles said:

AlastairMeeks said:

It feels like a very long time ago now that Leavers kept quacking on about Parliamentary sovereignty.

Parliamentary sovereign is not about parliament trying to unbalance the constitution

These things have evolved in a way that broadly works.

There is a very simple process available to Parliament if they don’t like the executive’s policy: a VONC.

Everything else is bullshit because they don’t want to follow the rules

The Fixed Term Parliaments Act gives them options. They’re taking them.

MikeSmithson

HYUFD said:

Gallowgate said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

Yes, Boris will refuse to extend again over No Deal as long as he is PM

He might not have that power

He will not legislate in October and will prorogue Parliament if necessary to November to ensure no further extension can be passed.

3 years after Leave won the referendum Brexit will be delivered

Proroguing Parliament? Like Charles I?

A Parliament which refuses to respect the will of the people yes, not a Parliament preventing rule by divine right

Do you not realise how ridiculous that sentence sounds? Really?

F*ck me.

Diehard Remainers would rather push us towards near civil war than respect the Leave vote, hence they refused to vote for the Withdrawal Agreement and now refuse to vote for No Deal

But the leave vote was NOT for no deal. Therefore there is no mandate

Charles

AlastairMeeks said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

My concern in all of this is that with the exception of Corbyn each leader wants to stop brexit completely, not just no deal

Anyone acting as a defacto leader needs to prevent no deal, but must also prevent no brexit by agreeing a deal with the EU. Anything else is just wrong for democracy

A deal was agreed. No one wanted it.

We have to start from where we are, which is a bad place. There is no mandate for no deal Brexit or for revoke. No one seriously wants to try for a different deal. So a fresh mandate is needed. It’s not good but all the other options are worse.

There was a vote

The choice was “leave” or “remain”

A mandate was given to leave

Just because people who disagree with that have tried to do everything in their power to stop it (except the thing that is actually in their power) doesn’t weaken the mandate

SandyRentool

HYUFD said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

Yes, Boris will refuse to extend again over No Deal as long as he is PM

He might not have that power

He will not legislate in October and will prorogue Parliament if necessary to November to ensure no further extension can be passed.

3 years after Leave won the referendum Brexit will be delivered

When I voted Leave I wasn't voting for fascism.

kle4

I think the moment when even minor hope of resolution died for me was probably the indicative votes. Granted, the gov MPs abstaining affected this, but that nothing at all got more approving than rejecting (even if some came close) really emphasised just how committed they all were to not getting to a solution.

Yorkcity

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Yorkcity said:

kle4 said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree, Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

The idea that Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down seems to me to rely on the premise that he would not pursue a course of action which is self destructive to his stated aims, and I don't know that that can be relied upon. "Sorry lads, I know we said we'd all stand if we were not out by now, but Boris really will take us out and needs us to step down to do it, we have to trust him".

I agree with HYFUD that Johnson will not extend past the 311019.
So no deal it is , therefore Farage and the Brexit Party, have achieved their aim.
So no requirement in a GE to stand against the Conservative party.

The big unknown is just how the voters are going to act

Boris has a clear position but his opposition are divided and at this rate the remain vote will dilute between labour, lib dems, greens, snp and plaid

I think you are correct.
The opposition is divided ,to the extent that without the Brexit Party standing, Johnson wins a healthy majority.

Sunil_Prasannan

HYUFD said:

Gallowgate said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

Yes, Boris will refuse to extend again over No Deal as long as he is PM

He might not have that power

He will not legislate in October and will prorogue Parliament if necessary to November to ensure no further extension can be passed.

3 years after Leave won the referendum Brexit will be delivered

Proroguing Parliament? Like Charles I?

A Parliament which refuses to respect the will of the people yes, not a Parliament preventing rule by divine right

Do you not realise how ridiculous that sentence sounds? Really?

F*ck me.

Diehard Remainers would rather push us towards near civil war than respect the Leave vote, hence they refused to vote for the Withdrawal Agreement and now refuse to vote for No Deal

Why did you vote REMAIN, HYUFD?

AlastairMeeks

HYUFD said:

AlastairMeeks said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

Yes, Boris will refuse to extend again over No Deal as long as he is PM

He might not have that power

He will not legislate in October and will prorogue Parliament if necessary to November to ensure no further extension can be passed.

3 years after Leave won the referendum Brexit will be delivered

Proroguing Parliament? Like Charles I?

A Parliament which refuses to respect the will of the people yes, not a Parliament preventing rule by divine right

You must have better divination of the chicken entrails than me if you get no deal Brexit on 31 October 2019 as part of referendum vote in 2016. To anyone not completely one-eyed, it looks like a coup by an unelected Prime Minister without a Parliamentary majority for a prospectus no one voted for.

The only prospectus voted for was to Leave the EU, there was no question about Leaving but only with a Deal

That is simply untrue. Vote Leave could not have been clearer how they envisaged a deal materialising.

HYUFD

eristdoof said:

HYUFD said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

dixiedean said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

The sneaky thing to do would be to VoNC, immediately give confidence to Ken Clarke, ask for an extension, VoNC Clarke, and the give Boris Johnson confidence again.

All in an afternoon.

Fortunately, MPs aren't that smart.

The really sneaky thing would be for Clarke to Revoke. Give Boris the full 2 years to display his extensive negotiating prowess.

Revocation followed by a General Election could be tougher for the Conservatives than extension followed by a GE. What would their Brexit policy be?

There is no majority in the Commons for Revoke as the indicative votes proved

That was while the alternative option was May's deal. Views may have changed now the other option is No Deal.

The only thing the Commons has voted for is the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop, exactly as Boris is aiming for

"the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop" is a unicorn

Not if a technical solution for the Irish border is found

eek

HYUFD said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

dixiedean said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

The sneaky thing to do would be to VoNC, immediately give confidence to Ken Clarke, ask for an extension, VoNC Clarke, and the give Boris Johnson confidence again.

All in an afternoon.

Fortunately, MPs aren't that smart.

The really sneaky thing would be for Clarke to Revoke. Give Boris the full 2 years to display his extensive negotiating prowess.

Revocation followed by a General Election could be tougher for the Conservatives than extension followed by a GE. What would their Brexit policy be?

There is no majority in the Commons for Revoke as the indicative votes proved

That was while the alternative option was May's deal. Views may have changed now the other option is No Deal.

The only thing the Commons has voted for is the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop, exactly as Boris is aiming for

Yep an impossible unicorn...

Jonathan

HYUFD said:

Charles said:

HYUFD said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

Yes, Boris will refuse to extend again over No Deal as long as he is PM

He might not have that power

He will not legislate in October and will prorogue Parliament if necessary to November to ensure no further extension can be passed.

3 years after Leave won the referendum Brexit will be delivered

He’s not going to prorogue

He will if necessary from who I know in camp Boris

How foolish.

HYUFD

kle4 said:

HYUFD said:

Gallowgate said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

Yes, Boris will refuse to extend again over No Deal as long as he is PM

He might not have that power

He will not legislate in October and will prorogue Parliament if necessary to November to ensure no further extension can be passed.

3 years after Leave won the referendum Brexit will be delivered

Proroguing Parliament? Like Charles I?

A Parliament which refuses to respect the will of the people yes, not a Parliament preventing rule by divine right

Do you not realise how ridiculous that sentence sounds? Really?

F*ck me.

Diehard Remainers would rather push us towards near civil war than respect the Leave vote, hence they refused to vote for the Withdrawal Agreement and now refuse to vote for No Deal

But it is totally ok to do what the no dealers who also refused to vote for the WA want of course.

They have still voted for Brexit and to deliver the will of the people to Leave the EU

Big_G_NorthWales

HYUFD said:

Charles said:

HYUFD said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

Yes, Boris will refuse to extend again over No Deal as long as he is PM

He might not have that power

He will not legislate in October and will prorogue Parliament if necessary to November to ensure no further extension can be passed.

3 years after Leave won the referendum Brexit will be delivered

He’s not going to prorogue

He will if necessary from who I know in camp Boris

No he won't

He is enjoying being PM too much and to be honest Boris will do what is in the interest of Boris not what you may be hearing.

Of course ideally for Boris the HOC could tie his hands and he could well be relieved and act accordingly

Gallowgate

Deathcult Brexiteers are scared the voters are going to get in the way of Brexit again. Can you imagine that?

GarethoftheVale2

If Corbyn didn't vote for an election, after spending the last year calling for one he would look like a complete coward and be ridiculed
If Lab MPs didn't back their leader by voting for an election then the party would look hopelessly split.

eek

GarethoftheVale2 said:

If Corbyn didn't vote for an election, after spending the last year calling for one he would look like a complete coward and be ridiculed
If Lab MPs didn't back their leader by voting for an election then the party would look hopelessly split.

Why do you get the idea that Corbyn will not vote for an election. Corbyn will just add a pre-condition which Boris will refuse...

Then if Boris really wants an election all he has to do is ask for a small extension..

Big_G_NorthWales

HYUFD said:

Gallowgate said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

Yes, Boris will refuse to extend again over No Deal as long as he is PM

He might not have that power

He will not legislate in October and will prorogue Parliament if necessary to November to ensure no further extension can be passed.

3 years after Leave won the referendum Brexit will be delivered

Proroguing Parliament? Like Charles I?

A Parliament which refuses to respect the will of the people yes, not a Parliament preventing rule by divine right

Do you not realise how ridiculous that sentence sounds? Really?

F*ck me.

Diehard Remainers would rather push us towards near civil war than respect the Leave vote, hence they refused to vote for the Withdrawal Agreement and now refuse to vote for No Deal

You need to chill out. You are getting too shrill to be honest

HYUFD

Gallowgate said:

HYUFD said:

Gallowgate said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

Yorkcity said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Unless the opposition parties are able to VONC Boris successfully they cannot stop him refusing to extend again on October 31st as Head of the Executive branch, if the Opposition parties do manage to VONC Boris successfully a general election is inevitable unless an alternative PM.can be found in 14 days

They could VONC him and then put him back in the hot seat without an election.

And he would still refuse to extend

I agree , Johnson needs a no deal, so Farage will stand his Brexit candidates down.
Whatever you think of the Conservative party , they know how to stay in power.

Yes, Boris will refuse to extend again over No Deal as long as he is PM

He might not have that power

He will not legislate in October and will prorogue Parliament if necessary to November to ensure no further extension can be passed.

3 years after Leave won the referendum Brexit will be delivered

Proroguing Parliament? Like Charles I?

A Parliament which refuses to respect the will of the people yes, not a Parliament preventing rule by divine right

Do you not realise how ridiculous that sentence sounds? Really?

F*ck me.

Diehard Remainers would rather push us towards near civil war than respect the Leave vote, hence they refused to vote for the Withdrawal Agreement and now refuse to vote for No Deal

MPs were elected in 2017 on fresh mandates. If your football team believes that these 'diehard remainers' are somehow not representing their constituents then we should have an election.

Trying to force Brexit through before an election means you aren't really confident it is the will of the people anyway.

Frit.

Even Corbyn promised to deliver Brexit in GE17