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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Boris Johnson channels both Theresa May and Gordon Brown

SystemSystem Posts: 6,666
edited September 2 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Boris Johnson channels both Theresa May and Gordon Brown

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Comments

  • First like I was with my reporting on previous thread
  • RobDRobD Posts: 38,791
    Ah, here it is!
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 9,650
    Must be the first time, Boris Johnson has trumped live BBC reporting. Caught them short.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 47,074
    Just spinning in place until the General Election becomes official. At least we'll finally see some proper, no take back rebellions.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 15,733
    We'll be in a general election campaign by the end of the week.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 1,952
    GIN1138 said:

    We'll be in a general election campaign by the end of the week.

    Eesh
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 1,510
    edited September 2
    I disagree with Twitter (what a surprise). He was saying something. The subtext was clearly back me or we go into a GE.

    They won’t back him, so a GE is imminent. What he wants to do is make sure it doesn’t look like HE chose it after what happened to TMay. He wants it to look like he was forced into it.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 15,733


    I'm sure Mrs T would have been greeted by some nasty chants if she'd made lecturn statements in Downing St.

    Can't remember her doing it much?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 30,520
    GIN1138 said:

    We'll be in a general election campaign by the end of the week.

    Parliament should deny him the election and also not pass the legislation to force an extension. The prorogation period would become a death march for his government, with Johnson facing inevitable humiliation at the European Council summit.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 47,074
    Sure, if that is its meaning that is contentious, but if someone is saying no deal is totally unacceptable what difference does it make to them? Either they kid themselves we might agree a different deal in whatever time the EU give, or they get the referendum or GE to reverse Brexit that they want anyway.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 61,387
    Laura Kuenssberg says Boris will call a general election for October 14th if the Commons votes for another extension this week
  • I disagree with Twitter (what a surprise). He was saying something. The subtext was clearly back me or we go into a GE.

    He knows we are going into a GE. That was decided when he went for prorogation forcing the hands of the Tory remainers.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 828
    Yes. Shouting 'Stop the coup' as a freely elected parliament is about to resume around the corner while the oppositions try to decide whether to mandate another free election seems odd. Hardly North Korea or even Hong Kong is it?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 47,074
    edited September 2

    I disagree with Twitter (what a surprise). He was saying something. The subtext was clearly back me or we go into a GE.

    They won’t back him, so a GE is imminent. What he wants to do is make sure it doesn’t look like HE chose it after what happened to TMay. He wants it to look like he was forced into it.

    Which is what people have been speculating about for a week, hence no change.
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 965

    I disagree with Twitter (what a surprise). He was saying something. The subtext was clearly back me or we go into a GE.

    They won’t back him, so a GE is imminent. What he wants to do is make sure it doesn’t look like HE chose it after what happened to TMay. He wants it to look like he was forced into it.

    Exactly.

    Not like Brown or May at all. For goodness sake, political junkies cant wait even one day.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 38,791
    algarkirk said:

    Yes. Shouting 'Stop the coup' as a freely elected parliament is about to resume around the corner while the oppositions try to decide whether to mandate another free election seems odd. Hardly North Korea or even Hong Kong is it?

    You have to admit, it's easier than chanting "stop doing what I don't want you to do".
  • HYUFD said:

    Laura Kuenssberg says Boris will call a general election for October 14th if the Commons votes for another extension this week

    A Monday election?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 4,213
    Quite obviously the point of that is to prevent the thing falling through if Brussels offers a different date from the one the PM is mandated to request.

    It hands the keys to the Commons, not to Brussels.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 4,213

    HYUFD said:

    Laura Kuenssberg says Boris will call a general election for October 14th if the Commons votes for another extension this week

    A Monday election?
    Otherwise it would coincide with the European Council meeting, I suppose.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 344
    HYUFD said:

    Laura Kuenssberg says Boris will call a general election for October 14th if the Commons votes for another extension this week

    I half expect him to call a general election on 31st October.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 4,489
    algarkirk said:

    Yes. Shouting 'Stop the coup' as a freely elected parliament is about to resume around the corner while the oppositions try to decide whether to mandate another free election seems odd. Hardly North Korea or even Hong Kong is it?

    By the same logic, you should have no problem with being in the EU because at least it isn’t the USSR.

    Get a grip.
  • kle4 said:

    Sure, if that is its meaning that is contentious, but if someone is saying no deal is totally unacceptable what difference does it make to them? Either they kid themselves we might agree a different deal in whatever time the EU give, or they get the referendum or GE to reverse Brexit that they want anyway.
    The following paragraph says the govt can ask parliament to vote on an extension. If parliament rejects it we dont sign up. But leavers have never been interested in the details, just about getting very angry and randomly calling people traitors.
  • Turns out Johnson did not say this ...
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 965
    One thing I haven't seen ask is:

    Are the Libdems ready for an election? Labour will be fine as they can call on the unions, but what about the libdems?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 1,510

    Turns out Johnson did not say this ...

    Peston is useless. Has he ever got anything right?
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 5,043
    Optics of Monday GE will presumably be we can't afford to wait even another 3 days - must have GE before EU Summit.
  • spudgfsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Laura Kuenssberg says Boris will call a general election for October 14th if the Commons votes for another extension this week

    I half expect him to call a general election on 31st October.
    He may try and delay whatever election date is set. Perhaps we shall find some more foot and mouth disease somewhere. I would put nothing past this shameful PM.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 61,387

    HYUFD said:

    Laura Kuenssberg says Boris will call a general election for October 14th if the Commons votes for another extension this week

    A Monday election?
    Good way to start the week
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 30,520

    Turns out Johnson did not say this ...

    Bottled it already.
  • DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,195
    So what are the numbers looking like for tomorrow? How many Labour Leavers are we expecting?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 4,213
    GIN1138 said:



    I'm sure Mrs T would have been greeted by some nasty chants if she'd made lecturn statements in Downing St.

    Can't remember her doing it much?

    She was booed when she made a statement in Downing Street when she took office in 1979.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 1,767

    Turns out Johnson did not say this ...

    Bit embarrassing for Pesto, but tbf to him (which I'm not overly inclined to be), Bozo did everything but say that.
  • If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 965

    Turns out Johnson did not say this ...

    Peston is useless. Has he ever got anything right?
    No.
  • NooNoo Posts: 788
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Laura Kuenssberg says Boris will call a general election for October 14th if the Commons votes for another extension this week

    A Monday election?
    Good way to start the week
    Good way to end the weak, too.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 4,489
    DanSmith said:

    So what are the numbers looking like for tomorrow? How many Labour Leavers are we expecting?

    1. Hoey
  • RobDRobD Posts: 38,791

    If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.

    The first is looking likely, but the second?
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,235
    edited September 2

    Turns out Johnson did not say this ...

    In fairness to Preston, other than Boris not saying it on the steps of Downing Street just now, all of that is probably No.10's strategy.

    He'll be back on the steps later in the week. Maybe for a 10pm news, when there's fewer howling middle class white people beyond the gates to Downing Street...They'll all be safely tucked up back in Islington by then.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 4,213
    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Laura Kuenssberg says Boris will call a general election for October 14th if the Commons votes for another extension this week

    A Monday election?
    Otherwise it would coincide with the European Council meeting, I suppose.
    Why that should make a difference if Johnson is planning to No Deal, I'm not sure.
  • In the GE, the remain parties should make up a big thing of killing 10 million lambs in order to no deal. It shows how absurd this has become.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 30,182

    If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.

    That's my reading of it, provided it can become law automatically if it passes the Commons and the Lords.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 5,043
    Tees up key Boris point in debates:

    "Who do you want at EU Council? Me or Corbyn?"

    Message to Brexit Party supporters: "Farage can't be PM, it's me or Corbyn"
  • Bottler Billy Bunter.

    LOL.
  • NooNoo Posts: 788

    fewer howling middle class white people

    What have you got against white people?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 30,182
    Chris said:

    GIN1138 said:



    I'm sure Mrs T would have been greeted by some nasty chants if she'd made lecturn statements in Downing St.

    Can't remember her doing it much?

    She was booed when she made a statement in Downing Street when she took office in 1979.
    Pretty standard for Mrs.T. Nevertheless this hasn't been heard for a while, and "stop the coup" chanting is strange.
  • Chris said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Laura Kuenssberg says Boris will call a general election for October 14th if the Commons votes for another extension this week

    A Monday election?
    Otherwise it would coincide with the European Council meeting, I suppose.
    Why that should make a difference if Johnson is planning to No Deal, I'm not sure.
    He is desperate not to no deal, as long as he can save face.
  • DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,195

    DanSmith said:

    So what are the numbers looking like for tomorrow? How many Labour Leavers are we expecting?

    1. Hoey
    Will surely be a few more, or does this being in effect a confidence vote change things?
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,235
    Noo said:

    fewer howling middle class white people

    What have you got against white people?
    Just paraphrasing Jon Snow.
  • If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.

    That's my reading of it, provided it can become law automatically if it passes the Commons and the Lords.
    Lock him up chants to come......
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 457

    In the GE, the remain parties should make up a big thing of killing 10 million lambs in order to no deal. It shows how absurd this has become.

    You can’t run that line and the line that there’ll be food shortages. In the complex, real world both things can be true but if you try and say so in a debate you’ll be destroyed.
  • eggegg Posts: 181
    Meanwhile Hammond is focusing on how is Boris negotiation coming along.

    Boris and his supporters repeatedly talk up the progress he’s making in his recent visits to Berlin and to Paris, and at the G7 summit in Biarritz. Can someone who believes this is true and isn’t bullshit explain what this progress is?

    The only sense Boris has made so far was in his Merkel press conference, accepting there can only be change if UK puts some credible proposals on the table. But we only negotiate something better by actually negotiating, true to say isn’t it? And there can only be some merit Keeping no deal on table and supposedly coerce EU to back down, so we achieve a better deal, if the no deal threat will hurt them as much as it hurts us? Does anyone really believe No deal impacts EU as much as it will impact the UK? If so explain your reasoning to a sceptical audience all ears to learn the truth.

    Because ultimately what hurts UK from No Deal is not just the indelible impact on our farming and other industry and business in such a fast forward to global Britain , but the political crisis in Britain extending into the longer term, because we wouldn’t be able to get EU to table and compromise without ourselves climbing down and sucking up exactly what they are currently asking from us. In other words, just as May and the Conservative moderates explained, we can only achieve leave deal with EU by making a compromise, and its damn harder for us to make that compromise after a no deal Brexit. We will become even more firmly stuck in a political crisis that impacts EU to far lesser degree than ourselves.

    This is not a remainer argument, this is an argument any staunch leaver with more than three active brain cells can make. No deal is certainly not the end of it. It is not closure and move on. No deal isn’t actually an answer to anything, it’s a billboard to the world of our failure to achieve that answer. A symbol of failure etched forever into British history.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 61,387
    edited September 2

    If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.

    Boris will of course refuse to implement an extension using the royal prerogative and would not be breaking the law as Bills need royal signature to become law.

    Though Corbyn said today he would back an election regardless despite Blair warning Corbyn Boris had set an 'elephant trap' for him
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 30,520
    edited September 2
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Laura Kuenssberg says Boris will call a general election for October 14th if the Commons votes for another extension this week

    A Monday election?
    Otherwise it would coincide with the European Council meeting, I suppose.
    Why that should make a difference if Johnson is planning to No Deal, I'm not sure.
    His campaign speech:

    "In a few days time there will be a European summit that will determine our fate. Only one of two people can go to that summit: me or Jeremy Corbyn. I will be resolute that if we do not get a good deal for Britain, we will come out regardless. Jeremy Corbyn will fold like a wet lettuce. Every vote for me will strengthen my hand in the negotiations."
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 4,377
    Made such an effort with his hair too. Oh dear.

    Is he a Great Man or an unprincipled and essentially vacuous lump of privilege?

    Hard to say right now but time will tell.
  • HYUFD said:

    If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.

    Boris will of course refuse to implement an extension using the royal prerogative and would not be breaking the law as Bills need royal signature to become law.

    Though Corbyn said today he would back an election regardless despite Blair warning Corbyn Boris had set an 'elephant trap' for him

    Good luck with that HYUFD!

  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 965
    What happens if the rebels lose? Then what? (They wont....but what if....)
  • ChrisChris Posts: 4,213
    HYUFD said:

    If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.

    Boris will of course refuse to implement an extension using the royal prerogative ...
    Not being king, that might be difficult for him.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 1,952
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Laura Kuenssberg says Boris will call a general election for October 14th if the Commons votes for another extension this week

    A Monday election?
    Otherwise it would coincide with the European Council meeting, I suppose.
    Why that should make a difference if Johnson is planning to No Deal, I'm not sure.
    He’s not. That’s why. Duh.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 15,733

    Turns out Johnson did not say this ...

    I was tipping a Monday 14th October general election on here last night. :D
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 26,673
    Anyone still claiming there’s a master strategy? It all looks like Frank Spencer rollerskating tonight.
  • ab195 said:

    In the GE, the remain parties should make up a big thing of killing 10 million lambs in order to no deal. It shows how absurd this has become.

    You can’t run that line and the line that there’ll be food shortages. In the complex, real world both things can be true but if you try and say so in a debate you’ll be destroyed.
    The food shortages are (very probably) not a shortage of overall food but a shortage of some particular foods. Lamb will not be one of them.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 61,387
    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.

    Boris will of course refuse to implement an extension using the royal prerogative ...
    Not being king, that might be difficult for him.
    As the Queen showed last week she will follow the PM's direction unless he loses a VONC
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 26,673
    HYUFD said:

    If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.

    Boris will of course refuse to implement an extension using the royal prerogative and would not be breaking the law as Bills need royal signature to become law.

    Though Corbyn said today he would back an election regardless despite Blair warning Corbyn Boris had set an 'elephant trap' for him
    Boris Johnson is not yet the Queen.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 15,733
    AndyJS said:
    I wouldn't expect Watson to be able to read the subtext.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 31,278
    edited September 2
    RobD said:

    If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.

    The first is looking likely, but the second?

    Johnson resigning as PM would be perfect for Corbyn. Him breaking the law to take us out on a No Deal would be a pretty close second.

  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,235
    edited September 2
    Chris said:

    Quite obviously the point of that is to prevent the thing falling through if Brussels offers a different date from the one the PM is mandated to request.

    It hands the keys to the Commons, not to Brussels.
    A Commons the majority of whom are Remain/Anti No Deal, so in this regard the Commons and Brussels are analogous.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 11,651

    Anyone still claiming there’s a master strategy? It all looks like Frank Spencer rollerskating tonight.

    If it comes to it, I think Boris will resign if there isn't an election and become Leader of the Opposition.
  • nunuone said:

    What happens if the rebels lose? Then what? (They wont....but what if....)

    Nothing much, we move to the next cliff edge.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 9,387
    Does Boris Johnson's speech make any sense to anyone? Are we getting a deal or aren't we?

    It feels very Brexits means Brexit
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 61,387

    HYUFD said:

    If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.

    Boris will of course refuse to implement an extension using the royal prerogative and would not be breaking the law as Bills need royal signature to become law.

    Though Corbyn said today he would back an election regardless despite Blair warning Corbyn Boris had set an 'elephant trap' for him
    Boris Johnson is not yet the Queen.
    The Queen does what Boris says as she showed when she prorogued Parliament at his request, he is her Chief Minister after all unless the Commons votes for an election or another Chief Minister
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 23,982
    FPT
    malcolmg said:

    » show previous quotes
    Did it taste 200 times better than a £50 bottle, or 500 times better than a £20 bottle.

    Even wine experts can only do a little bit better than 50/50 guessing when comparing a £50 or £10 bottle of wine in blind tasting.

    Exactly it is just for rich twunts to try and make themselves feel important
  • RobDRobD Posts: 38,791

    RobD said:

    If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.

    The first is looking likely, but the second?

    Johnson resigning as PM would be perfect for Corbyn. Him breaking the law to take us out on a No Deal would be a pretty close second.

    That can only happen after MPs have refused an election, an election that Corbyn said he'd support.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 4,377
    You're on fire Chris ☺
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 1,952
    egg said:

    Meanwhile Hammond is focusing on how is Boris negotiation coming along.

    Boris and his supporters repeatedly talk up the progress he’s making in his recent visits to Berlin and to Paris, and at the G7 summit in Biarritz. Can someone who believes this is true and isn’t bullshit explain what this progress is?

    The only sense Boris has made so far was in his Merkel press conference, accepting there can only be change if UK puts some credible proposals on the table. But we only negotiate something better by actually negotiating, true to say isn’t it? And there can only be some merit Keeping no deal on table and supposedly coerce EU to back down, so we achieve a better deal, if the no deal threat will hurt them as much as it hurts us? Does anyone really believe No deal impacts EU as much as it will impact the UK? If so explain your reasoning to a sceptical audience all ears to learn the truth.

    Because ultimately what hurts UK from No Deal is not just the indelible impact on our farming and other industry and business in such a fast forward to global Britain , but the political crisis in Britain extending into the longer term, because we wouldn’t be able to get EU to table and compromise without ourselves climbing down and sucking up exactly what they are currently asking from us. In other words, just as May and the Conservative moderates explained, we can only achieve leave deal with EU by making a compromise, and its damn harder for us to make that compromise after a no deal Brexit. We will become even more firmly stuck in a political crisis that impacts EU to far lesser degree than ourselves.

    This is not a remainer argument, this is an argument any staunch leaver with more than three active brain cells can make. No deal is certainly not the end of it. It is not closure and move on. No deal isn’t actually an answer to anything, it’s a billboard to the world of our failure to achieve that answer. A symbol of failure etched forever into British history.

    Very eloquent. And largely true.

    You ignore one thing though. If we annul the referendum vote with revoke, or a 2nd referendum, that’s a big fat signal to the world that British democracy is over.
  • Chris said:

    Quite obviously the point of that is to prevent the thing falling through if Brussels offers a different date from the one the PM is mandated to request.

    It hands the keys to the Commons, not to Brussels.
    A Commons the majority of whom are Remain/Anti No Deal, so in this regard the Commons and Brussels are analogous.
    The country voted a UK parliament in 2017. It is ridiculous to suggest the UK parliament represents the EU and not the UK!!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 50,988
    Mr. Meeks, Frank Spencer on roller skates was altogether more impressive. And he only took a single take.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 769
    If the election was October 14, days before the EU Council meeting, imagine the fun if the UK returns a horrifically hung Parliament and there's days and days of coalition/C&S negotiations between parties before anyone actually forms a Government.
  • RobD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Yes. Shouting 'Stop the coup' as a freely elected parliament is about to resume around the corner while the oppositions try to decide whether to mandate another free election seems odd. Hardly North Korea or even Hong Kong is it?

    You have to admit, it's easier than chanting "stop doing what I don't want you to do".
    The Trumptonism is strong in this one.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 4,213
    ab195 said:

    In the GE, the remain parties should make up a big thing of killing 10 million lambs in order to no deal. It shows how absurd this has become.

    You can’t run that line and the line that there’ll be food shortages. In the complex, real world both things can be true but if you try and say so in a debate you’ll be destroyed.
    You can't grasp that if there is disruption of imports and exports there could be a surplus of a food we normally export and a shortage of a food we normally import?

    You really can't understand such a simple concept?
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 457

    Anyone still claiming there’s a master strategy? It all looks like Frank Spencer rollerskating tonight.

    Does it? Lose the vote tomorrow, put millions of sweeties in the SR on Wednesday having spent PMQs framing the vote. Then dare Corbyn not to support an election (defining the date in legislation if needs be, seeing as how no one now believes him).

    Seems clear to me. And clearly being well briefed to the media.
  • Boris is playing this smart, he's ensuring that if there is an election it is because Parliament has backed him into a corner. Not simply trying to capitalise on recent double-digit poll leads like May did.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 4,489
    I think I read that as part of the prologuing of parliament washup, all passed bills are automatically given royal assent. Is that right? Be hilarious if Boris is undone by his own coup.
  • FF43 said:

    Does Boris Johnson's speech make any sense to anyone? Are we getting a deal or aren't we?

    It feels very Brexits means Brexit

    Continuity May without the effort and hard work of his predecessor!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 61,387
    edited September 2

    HYUFD said:

    If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.

    Boris will of course refuse to implement an extension using the royal prerogative and would not be breaking the law as Bills need royal signature to become law.

    Though Corbyn said today he would back an election regardless despite Blair warning Corbyn Boris had set an 'elephant trap' for him

    Good luck with that HYUFD!

    No need, as Blair said an early election will see the Corbyn factor likely ensure Boris is re elected while it will be pre No Deal on October 31st so no economic problems yet either and Leave voters united behind Tories to deliver Brexit at last
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 1,952

    Anyone still claiming there’s a master strategy? It all looks like Frank Spencer rollerskating tonight.


    There’s clearly a strategy. Get MPs so desperate they eventually agree to a new deal, offered by a spooked EU. Whether it works is moot.

    What you’re seeing is tactics. Which vary from day to day, like skirmishes in a larger war.
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 965
    AndyJS said:
    Everyone calm down.

    This is all for the general public, who do NOT want another election.

    He is basically going to spin it as "look what those bad, nasty MP's made me do".

    Doesn't want to get the blame for yet another election.
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 457
    edited September 2
    Chris said:

    ab195 said:

    In the GE, the remain parties should make up a big thing of killing 10 million lambs in order to no deal. It shows how absurd this has become.

    You can’t run that line and the line that there’ll be food shortages. In the complex, real world both things can be true but if you try and say so in a debate you’ll be destroyed.
    You can't grasp that if there is disruption of imports and exports there could be a surplus of a food we normally export and a shortage of a food we normally import?

    You really can't understand such a simple concept?
    I can. That’s why I said so in my post. You seem to be the one unable to read English....

    You still can’t use that line in an election. It won’t work - it looks inconsistent.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,236
    I reckon he received some internal large poll [ something similar to YouGov 50000 ] and went frit. Clearly, if his strategy is NOT all out No Deal but "Deal but if EU do not play ball, then No Deal" will not appease BXP or even the ERG for that matter.
    I am not sure what the hoo-ha was about ?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 4,489
    Byronic said:

    egg said:

    Meanwhile Hammond is focusing on how is Boris negotiation coming along.

    Boris and his supporters repeatedly talk up the progress he’s making in his recent visits to Berlin and to Paris, and at the G7 summit in Biarritz. Can someone who believes this is true and isn’t bullshit explain what this progress is?

    The only sense Boris has made so far was in his Merkel press conference, accepting there can only be change if UK puts some credible proposals on the table. But we only negotiate something better by actually negotiating, true to say isn’t it? And there can only be some merit Keeping no deal on table and supposedly coerce EU to back down, so we achieve a better deal, if the no deal threat will hurt them as much as it hurts us? Does anyone really believe No deal impacts EU as much as it will impact the UK? If so explain your reasoning to a sceptical audience all ears to learn the truth.

    Because ultimately what hurts UK from No Deal is not just the indelible impact on our farming and other industry and business in such a fast forward to global Britain , but the political crisis in Britain extending into the longer term, because we wouldn’t be able to get EU to table and compromise without ourselves climbing down and sucking up exactly what they are currently asking from us. In other words, just as May and the Conservative moderates explained, we can only achieve leave deal with EU by making a compromise, and its damn harder for us to make that compromise after a no deal Brexit. We will become even more firmly stuck in a political crisis that impacts EU to far lesser degree than ourselves.

    This is not a remainer argument, this is an argument any staunch leaver with more than three active brain cells can make. No deal is certainly not the end of it. It is not closure and move on. No deal isn’t actually an answer to anything, it’s a billboard to the world of our failure to achieve that answer. A symbol of failure etched forever into British history.

    Very eloquent. And largely true.

    You ignore one thing though. If we annul the referendum vote with revoke, or a 2nd referendum, that’s a big fat signal to the world that British democracy is over.
    Take a look at Hong Kong before you dispense with your hyperbole. That’s the Brexit line right?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 30,520
    Byronic said:

    egg said:

    Meanwhile Hammond is focusing on how is Boris negotiation coming along.

    Boris and his supporters repeatedly talk up the progress he’s making in his recent visits to Berlin and to Paris, and at the G7 summit in Biarritz. Can someone who believes this is true and isn’t bullshit explain what this progress is?

    The only sense Boris has made so far was in his Merkel press conference, accepting there can only be change if UK puts some credible proposals on the table. But we only negotiate something better by actually negotiating, true to say isn’t it? And there can only be some merit Keeping no deal on table and supposedly coerce EU to back down, so we achieve a better deal, if the no deal threat will hurt them as much as it hurts us? Does anyone really believe No deal impacts EU as much as it will impact the UK? If so explain your reasoning to a sceptical audience all ears to learn the truth.

    Because ultimately what hurts UK from No Deal is not just the indelible impact on our farming and other industry and business in such a fast forward to global Britain , but the political crisis in Britain extending into the longer term, because we wouldn’t be able to get EU to table and compromise without ourselves climbing down and sucking up exactly what they are currently asking from us. In other words, just as May and the Conservative moderates explained, we can only achieve leave deal with EU by making a compromise, and its damn harder for us to make that compromise after a no deal Brexit. We will become even more firmly stuck in a political crisis that impacts EU to far lesser degree than ourselves.

    This is not a remainer argument, this is an argument any staunch leaver with more than three active brain cells can make. No deal is certainly not the end of it. It is not closure and move on. No deal isn’t actually an answer to anything, it’s a billboard to the world of our failure to achieve that answer. A symbol of failure etched forever into British history.

    Very eloquent. And largely true.

    You ignore one thing though. If we annul the referendum vote with revoke, or a 2nd referendum, that’s a big fat signal to the world that British democracy is over.
    It's a big fat signal to the world that the EU has arrived as a world power and should be taken seriously, and we can be part of it.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 38,791

    I think I read that as part of the prologuing of parliament washup, all passed bills are automatically given royal assent. Is that right? Be hilarious if Boris is undone by his own coup.

    In the scenario where the rebel bill is passed, I don't think they were relying on prorogation nullifying it. Rather, they are hoping that there will be a new parliament which could repeal the bill.
  • Boris is playing this smart, he's ensuring that if there is an election it is because Parliament has backed him into a corner. Not simply trying to capitalise on recent double-digit poll leads like May did.

    That was obviously his plan last week when he prorogued yet the leaver posters here were adamant he wanted no deal not an election. If it is working with politically engaged posters on here it will probably work with the electorate.

    The mistake is he has gone too far and made it very easy for those who have no time for Corbyn to vote Labour rather than LD/Green in Lab-Tory marginals.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 4,489
    RobD said:

    I think I read that as part of the prologuing of parliament washup, all passed bills are automatically given royal assent. Is that right? Be hilarious if Boris is undone by his own coup.

    In the scenario where the rebel bill is passed, I don't think they were relying on prorogation nullifying it. Rather, they are hoping that there will be a new parliament which could repeal the bill.
    That only works if we have an election. I know we probably will but its not guaranteed.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 9,650
    Not a good look leaving Whitehall in a mess.



  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 4,377

    Bottler Billy Bunter.

    LOL.

    But I suppose this is all being orchestrated by that GENIUS Dominic Cummings.

    Wow. Get that guy on a cure for a cancer and time travel, that's what I say.

    Wasted on all this trivia.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.

    Boris will of course refuse to implement an extension using the royal prerogative and would not be breaking the law as Bills need royal signature to become law.

    Though Corbyn said today he would back an election regardless despite Blair warning Corbyn Boris had set an 'elephant trap' for him

    Good luck with that HYUFD!

    No need, as Blair said an early election will see the Corbyn factor likely ensure Boris is re elected while it will be pre No Deal on October 31st so no economic problems yet either and Leave voters united behind Tories to deliver Brexit at last

    I would expect the Tories to win an election, but it is not up to Johnson when it takes place. And he is doing all that he can to put the 2017 Labour voting coalition back together again - with the added frisson of certain SNP and probable LibDem gains. It is a huge gamble.

This discussion has been closed.