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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Boris Johnson channels both Theresa May and Gordon Brown

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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    So they could set it at some absurd date like 3019 and he'd have to accept? What a joke.
    it is always possible to leave earlier, if a deal is agreed.
    Good joke.
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    Will Amber Rudd get to stand for Hammond's seat?
  • RobD said:

    isam said:

    Very interesting article in today’s Times by Matthew Syed on the futility of echo chambers where people of similar backgrounds haughtily agree their way of doing things is the right way to the exclusion of other voices... Is he a lurker?


    Quite.
    Poster 1: 'This place is an echo chamber!'

    Poster 2: 'Quite.'

    Me: Err..

    Err...
    Erm...

    (I'm hard of hearing).
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    Imagine ‘weaponising’ equal rights. Jesus christ.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    I hope the parties have their candidates all lined up, including backups for those they will be deselecting. A whole bunch of new O'Mara's is nto going to add to the worthiness of the next parliament.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Tony Blair interviewed by Jon Snow on Channel 4 News: "Every morning I wake up thinking about Brexit enraged and in despair".
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268
    Chris said:

    Quite obviously the point of that is to prevent the thing falling through if Brussels offers a different date from the one the PM is mandated to request.

    It hands the keys to the Commons, not to Brussels.
    Not really. The EU gets to name any date and parliament just gets to rubber stamp it or not.
  • I wonder whether apologists for this most unsuitable PM are going through the same early stages of doubt that the apologists for Gordon Brown did before the election-that-never-was. When will they reach the obvious conclusion that he is just a walking ego without a single redeemable feature.
  • DanSmith said:

    So what are the numbers looking like for tomorrow? How many Labour Leavers are we expecting?

    Fewer than 5 was my guess last time. Don't see any reason to change.

    Any Labour MP who sides with the government whether positively or via abstention will be ending their career as a Labour MP, so it will just be those Leave supporters who are standing down, I'd have thought.

    They're happy to be part of a party mired in anti-Semitism, and led by an anti-Semite, but voting with the Conservatives is beyond the pale?

    The Conservative Party is not the only one that has lost the plot.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,010

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.

    Boris will of course refuse to implement an extension using the royal prerogative and would not be breaking the law as Bills need royal signature to become law.

    Though Corbyn said today he would back an election regardless despite Blair warning Corbyn Boris had set an 'elephant trap' for him
    Boris Johnson is not yet the Queen.
    The Queen does what Boris says as she showed when she prorogued Parliament at his request, he is her Chief Minister after all unless the Commons votes for an election or another Chief Minister
    The Queen will think long and hard about becoming the first monarch since Queen Anne to withhold assent. It would be a hugely political act for her to undertake, with or without the Prime Minister’s advice. It would be as controversial as her dismissing the Prime Minister herself.
    No it wouldn't, voters backed the Queen asserting to proroguing Parliament by an over 20% margin with Survation at the weekend and voters also opposed further extension by 47% to 41% in the same poll (though I suspect the Queen would just dismiss Parliament and order a general election herself if necessary instead so voters can decide before October 31st whether to deliver Brexit or not)
    If the Commons has passed a bill there should be no reason why it shouldn't receive assent.
    There should as the executive would refuse to implement it and it betrays the Leave vote of 2016
    You do realise the bill simply requires an extension to be asked for an accepted IF a deal is not agreed?

    As Boris is going to get a deal, this is not a problem.
    I've lost track of the master plan a bit. Is the Northern Ireland referendum still on course for mid-September?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    Why are we going to have an election on a Monday? Is this a clever wheeze that might work to Boris's advantage?
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Gabs2 said:

    Chris said:

    Quite obviously the point of that is to prevent the thing falling through if Brussels offers a different date from the one the PM is mandated to request.

    It hands the keys to the Commons, not to Brussels.
    Not really. The EU gets to name any date and parliament just gets to rubber stamp it or not.
    Indeed. It is a hideous act of treachery. A Zinoviev letter. But real. And turned into a series of cheerful tweets.

    Expect Boris to use it every day in the campaign. With lethal effect.
  • Scott_P said:
    Looks like those of us on PB who have said it would definitely be an Autumn GE some months ago were correct.
  • AndyJS said:

    Tony Blair interviewed by Jon Snow on Channel 4 News: "Every morning I wake up thinking about Brexit enraged and in despair".

    Jon Snow said that? Or TB?
  • nichomar said:

    Let’s just remember that MPs are elected to represent the best interests of their constituents, they are not delegates they are just doing their job and people who call them traitors are, I’m afraid, lacking an understanding of how U.K. democracy works

    +1.
  • kle4 said:

    I hope the parties have their candidates all lined up, including backups for those they will be deselecting. A whole bunch of new O'Mara's is nto going to add to the worthiness of the next parliament.

    Is he resigning tommorroow?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    Tony Blair interviewed by Jon Snow on Channel 4 News: "Every morning I wake up thinking about Brexit enraged and in despair".

    Jon Snow said that? Or TB?
    TB.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,010
    Gabs2 said:

    Chris said:

    Quite obviously the point of that is to prevent the thing falling through if Brussels offers a different date from the one the PM is mandated to request.

    It hands the keys to the Commons, not to Brussels.
    Not really. The EU gets to name any date and parliament just gets to rubber stamp it or not.
    That's it. The decision is parliament's. Brussels can't "impose" anything.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Scott_P said:
    Boris Johnson, the 81 day PM if he is unlucky.
  • Byronic said:

    kle4 said:

    I am going to be neutral on this. I voted remain but want a deal

    I did not vote for Boris and dislike Cummings with a passion

    I blame ERG and others for torpoeding TM sensible deal

    However, a GE is needed ro smoke out Boris support and to negate the argument that he is unelected (if he should win)

    Corbyn needs testing again and in a very different arena to 2017

    Jo Swinson's time has come and I expect the lib dems will do very well

    I do not share HYUFD opinion Boris will win a majority as he will lose most of Scoland, London and the South though Corbyn is likely to be caught in a pincer movement and lose the most seats

    Conclusion their is a real possibility of a labour, lib dem, snp, plaid coalition under another leader who will agree a referendum and that referendum is likely to win due to the change in demography and the young people able to vote

    Caveat - IMHO

    Lose London AND THE SOUTH? I think the south will still be there for Boris.
    All of it?
    The polling will be crucial. If it looks like Corbyn might actually win - or just be the leader of the biggest party - then yes, terrified southerners (and many others) will peg their noses and vote Boris.
    I would how the Tory party would react if Boris called the election and Corbyn became PM?
  • Scott_P said:
    Boris is turning out not to so desperate to be PM after all. What a gamble this would be.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Scott_P said:
    What happens if two-thirds of MPs don't vote in favour an election?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    Byronic said:

    kle4 said:

    I am going to be neutral on this. I voted remain but want a deal

    I did not vote for Boris and dislike Cummings with a passion

    I blame ERG and others for torpoeding TM sensible deal

    However, a GE is needed ro smoke out Boris support and to negate the argument that he is unelected (if he should win)

    Corbyn needs testing again and in a very different arena to 2017

    Jo Swinson's time has come and I expect the lib dems will do very well

    I do not share HYUFD opinion Boris will win a majority as he will lose most of Scoland, London and the South though Corbyn is likely to be caught in a pincer movement and lose the most seats

    Conclusion their is a real possibility of a labour, lib dem, snp, plaid coalition under another leader who will agree a referendum and that referendum is likely to win due to the change in demography and the young people able to vote

    Caveat - IMHO

    Lose London AND THE SOUTH? I think the south will still be there for Boris.
    All of it?
    The polling will be crucial. If it looks like Corbyn might actually win - or just be the leader of the biggest party - then yes, terrified southerners (and many others) will peg their noses and vote Boris.
    I would how the Tory party would react if Boris called the election and Corbyn became PM?
    Blame the evil remainer alliance + tory traitors.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    edited September 2019
    Totally off topic

    So I’m in Liverpool overnight go take younger twin to the Keith Haring exhibition at Tate Liverpool and we are in Amalia (a proper Italian restaurant) with all Italian staff.

    Younger twin has just ordered the Hawaiian pizza to the complete disgust of the staff
  • tlg86 said:

    Why are we going to have an election on a Monday? Is this a clever wheeze that might work to Boris's advantage?

    Apparently the Thursday clashes with the EU summit.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Nothing has changed - apart from the upcoming election
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    This is from a left leaning site (they would be Labour but for the anti semitism)

    http://hurryupharry.org/2019/09/02/check-and-mate/
  • Whatever happens it'll be the end of the monarchy.

    Is Boris Johnson prepared to put the Queen through that?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,697
    AndyJS said:

    Tony Blair interviewed by Jon Snow on Channel 4 News: "Every morning I wake up thinking about Brexit enraged and in despair".

    If nothing else comes from Brexit how nice to know that it's caused Tony Blair so much upset... :D
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,010
    TGOHF said:
    He could have been a bit clearer - by saying the stuff about the election, rather than making a speech that didn't mention it, and then having someone brief the press anonymously about it.
  • DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:
    There is no end to these people’s obsequious obeisance to Brussels. Nothing their own country wants matters. It’s all about the greater good.
    That's not exactly what it says, is it?

    Parliament have to agree it.

    Since we have proved incapable as a country of progressing this, perhaps we need wiser heads to give us advice on what is achievable.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Boris is turning out not to so desperate to be PM after all. What a gamble this would be.

    This is the last desperate act of a desperate man...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited September 2019
    dr_spyn said:
    Once in a generation? How far apart does he think our elections are even if they were on schedule if he thinks they offer a once in a generation chance to change things?!
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138

    Whatever happens it'll be the end of the monarchy.

    Is Boris Johnson prepared to put the Queen through that?
    Er......yes.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    dr_spyn said:
    I’m afraid they are the problem they couldn’t run a parish council while real talent sits o. Labour back benches.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    edited September 2019

    Byronic said:

    kle4 said:

    I am going to be neutral on this. I voted remain but want a deal

    I did not vote for Boris and dislike Cummings with a passion

    I blame ERG and others for torpoeding TM sensible deal

    However, a GE is needed ro smoke out Boris support and to negate the argument that he is unelected (if he should win)

    Corbyn needs testing again and in a very different arena to 2017

    Jo Swinson's time has come and I expect the lib dems will do very well

    I do not share HYUFD opinion Boris will win a majority as he will lose most of Scoland, London and the South though Corbyn is likely to be caught in a pincer movement and lose the most seats

    Conclusion their is a real possibility of a labour, lib dem, snp, plaid coalition under another leader who will agree a referendum and that referendum is likely to win due to the change in demography and the young people able to vote

    Caveat - IMHO

    Lose London AND THE SOUTH? I think the south will still be there for Boris.
    All of it?
    The polling will be crucial. If it looks like Corbyn might actually win - or just be the leader of the biggest party - then yes, terrified southerners (and many others) will peg their noses and vote Boris.
    I would how the Tory party would react if Boris called the election and Corbyn became PM?
    Well if it is the will of the people so be it, better that than yet again ignoring the Leave vote and extending again without consulting them and showing contempt for democracy.

    Though even if Boris does not win a majority I cannot see Corbyn becoming PM, Swinson would almost certainly be Kingmaker and veto him
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    Whatever happens it'll be the end of the monarchy.

    Is Boris Johnson prepared to put the Queen through that?
    Yes. Next question.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    If Johnson makes an election announcement on Wednesday, why cannot Corbyn respond by tabling a VNOC? That would take priority in terms of Commons business , and if passed would set the 14 day clock ticking effectively denying Johnson his preferred date. Given the events of recent days, he might be nuch better placed to gain support from other parties to be installed as an alternative PM.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Byronic said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Chris said:

    Quite obviously the point of that is to prevent the thing falling through if Brussels offers a different date from the one the PM is mandated to request.

    It hands the keys to the Commons, not to Brussels.
    Not really. The EU gets to name any date and parliament just gets to rubber stamp it or not.
    Indeed. It is a hideous act of treachery. A Zinoviev letter. But real. And turned into a series of cheerful tweets.

    Expect Boris to use it every day in the campaign. With lethal effect.
    And people on here think that is acceptable.

    To quote my inner DUP

    no no no no
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    AndyJS said:

    What happens if two-thirds of MPs don't vote in favour an election?

    BoZo is fucked.

    And there was much rejoicing...
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,697
    tlg86 said:

    Why are we going to have an election on a Monday? Is this a clever wheeze that might work to Boris's advantage?

    Don't think they can get Thursday 10th due to FTPA and 17th October is the day of the EU council meeting.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Chris said:

    TGOHF said:
    He could have been a bit clearer - by saying the stuff about the election, rather than making a speech that didn't mention it, and then having someone brief the press anonymously about it.
    Maybe he left a cue card back in the garden and left it out by mistake.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,279
    nichomar said:

    dr_spyn said:
    I’m afraid they are the problem they couldn’t run a parish council while real talent sits o. Labour back benches.
    quite.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:

    AndyJS said:

    What happens if two-thirds of MPs don't vote in favour an election?

    BoZo is fucked.

    And there was much rejoicing...
    And Jezza is finished.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:
    There is no end to these people’s obsequious obeisance to Brussels. Nothing their own country wants matters. It’s all about the greater good.
    That's not exactly what it says, is it?

    Parliament have to agree it.

    Since we have proved incapable as a country of progressing this, perhaps we need wiser heads to give us advice on what is achievable.
    Ugh.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Whatever happens it'll be the end of the monarchy.

    Is Boris Johnson prepared to put the Queen through that?
    At least Prince Charles will escape the blame.

    What do you think happens to the Monarchy if the marxists get in?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,547
    Byronic said:

    Anyone still claiming there’s a master strategy? It all looks like Frank Spencer rollerskating tonight.


    There’s clearly a strategy. Get MPs so desperate they eventually agree to a new deal, offered by a spooked EU. Whether it works is moot.

    What you’re seeing is tactics. Which vary from day to day, like skirmishes in a larger war.
    Johnson claims something is developing on the deal and the EU will only negotiate under pressure. That's wrong on both counts. Nothing serious is developing and the EU won't buckle under a false deadline. But let's go with the fiction. The negotiations do develop into a deal that both sides can accept on October 31. Johnson can rightly claimed to have delivered, to have succeeded where his predecessor failed. But supposing, as is actually the case, he won't have anything by October 31. He has failed to deliver. What happens now?

    If he says, I don't mind very much whether I get a deal, my selected date is more important than the outcome, some people would buy that. He's not saying that however.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 2,722
    Scott_P said:
    If that's true then that is absolutely appalling.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469

    isam said:

    Very interesting article in today’s Times by Matthew Syed on the futility of echo chambers where people of similar backgrounds haughtily agree their way of doing things is the right way to the exclusion of other voices... Is he a lurker?

    He is a very good writer across a broad range of subjects. I dont know his politics but expect he would make a good MP.
    Labour candidate in 2001 in Wokingham but I think he is more a lib dem today
    No he supports Leave now - so he is more like a wet Tory. Remember them ?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    GIN1138 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Tony Blair interviewed by Jon Snow on Channel 4 News: "Every morning I wake up thinking about Brexit enraged and in despair".

    If nothing else comes from Brexit how nice to know that it's caused Tony Blair so much upset... :D
    Now that you mention it .... :-)
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    justin124 said:

    If Johnson makes an election announcement on Wednesday, why cannot Corbyn respond by tabling a VNOC? That would take priority in terms of Commons business , and if passed would set the 14 day clock ticking effectively denying Johnson his preferred date. Given the events of recent days, he might be nuch better placed to gain support from other parties to be installed as an alternative PM.

    I like this idea.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,093
    CatMan said:
    Trente per centen.

    What does the PB brains trust think about whether the new Benn bill requires Queen's Consent for accepting the extension? HY gets some cop for his view lower down the thread but I think there's some confusion in there between Royal assent and Queen's Consent. Surely forcing the PM into accepting an extension affects the Crown's prerogative power? If it does, then the Govt can kill the bill at the third reading.

    Note that the person who gets to make the call on whether it affects prerogative power is a chap called John Bercow. He made a (predictably wrong and) bold call on that point in the Cooper-Letwin bill when the HoL tweaked it.

    But if Bercow said it doesn't affect prerogative power, the power to negotiate and conclude treaties (obviously) is unchanged by the legislation, and HMG can refuse to accept the extension offered. That's why there has been such an emphasis on getting a Minister to say they will abide by the legislation.
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    Scott_P said:
    Yep. They can, as long as they are trying to appeal to Muslims in those northern constituencies.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 2,722
    AndyJS said:

    Tony Blair interviewed by Jon Snow on Channel 4 News: "Every morning I wake up thinking about Brexit enraged and in despair".

    If only he thought about Iraq the same way
  • HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    The only thing that can save Johnson is Labour rebels voting for the government, but I can't see more than about 10 or 15 doing so, which won't be enough.

    Corbyn will vote with Johnson for an election pre 31st October as he made clear today
    If we had a younger audience on here you would "become a meme". The audacious certainty of your posts/predictions is really very funny. You are Boris Johnson's Poundland Nostradamis.

    "Boris will trounce the non-believers. He will push those crooks, those mercenaries back into the swamp. There is no presence of remainer infidels in the city of London. God will roast their stomachs in hell at the hands of the will-o-the-people. Praise be to Comical Ali"
  • I don't know why everyone is so surprised on here.

    Johnson was elected to re-unite the Right, get Brexit done, and win an election.

    Every single thing he has done has been in service of those goals, and to accomplish them he had had to act with an aggression and decisiveness that is only shocking because it follows 3 years of May doing almost literally nothing.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Scott_P said:
    Probably, but what's the alternative for Boris?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    blueblue said:

    I don't know why everyone is so surprised on here.

    Johnson was elected to re-unite the Right, get Brexit done, and win an election.

    Every single thing he has done has been in service of those goals, and to accomplish them he had had to act with an aggression and decisiveness that is only shocking because it follows 3 years of May doing almost literally nothing.

    I was just going to say he makes a refreshing change from May.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    blueblue said:

    I don't know why everyone is so surprised on here.

    Johnson was elected to re-unite the Right, get Brexit done, and win an election.

    Every single thing he has done has been in service of those goals, and to accomplish them he had had to act with an aggression and decisiveness that is only shocking because it follows 3 years of May doing almost literally nothing.

    I mean, technically Boris still hasn’t done anything.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Byronic said:

    Anyone still claiming there’s a master strategy? It all looks like Frank Spencer rollerskating tonight.


    There’s clearly a strategy. Get MPs so desperate they eventually agree to a new deal, offered by a spooked EU. Whether it works is moot.

    What you’re seeing is tactics. Which vary from day to day, like skirmishes in a larger war.

    From here, any conceivable deal is a defeat for Johnson. No Deal is his only option.

    Agreed. He and Cummings would have gamed what would be the easiest to spin. Boris as the No Dealer with a heavy heart fits the bill. 'I wanted a deal, I really did, but because the people have spoken/Theresa was crap/the EU are nasty/parliament is uncooperative then No Deal it has to be. Let's make it work!'
    If Boris wins a majority before 31st October ironically he can then finally pass the Withdrawal Agreement with some promise about a technical solution for the Irish border from the EU
    What is your assumption about BXP in any election before 31 October? Do you think an agreement with the Tories will be reached, which Boris then would renege on if he passes a deal, or do you think BXP stand in some places but not enough to harm the Tories, or they stand all over the place but still not well enough to stop BoJo?
    There will be no pact with the Brexit Party as that requires abandoning the Withdrawal Agreement completely, Boris still wants to pass the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop and will campaign on that basis with No Deal a last resort to ensure Brexit on October 31st
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    GIN1138 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Why are we going to have an election on a Monday? Is this a clever wheeze that might work to Boris's advantage?

    Don't think they can get Thursday 10th due to FTPA and 17th October is the day of the EU council meeting.
    Bulgaria v England - 19:45 kick off.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Floater said:

    blueblue said:

    I don't know why everyone is so surprised on here.

    Johnson was elected to re-unite the Right, get Brexit done, and win an election.

    Every single thing he has done has been in service of those goals, and to accomplish them he had had to act with an aggression and decisiveness that is only shocking because it follows 3 years of May doing almost literally nothing.

    I was just going to say he makes a refreshing change from May.
    The polls back up your feelings.

    Brexit MEP on R5 confirms if Hammond et al are deselected then Brexit Party will only stand against Labour and Lib Dem remoaners.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    From anti Brexit ConsEurope but even it gives the Tories more than Labour plus SNP plus Plaid plus Greens combined with LDs or DUP holding the balance of power
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Do I not remember many, many posts on pb.com assuring us that Boris could not have a General Election, even if he wanted one?

    Let's see what happens.

    My reading is that Corbyn will vote for a General Election. Not least because he has been asking for one for two years, and his unique selling point is that he is a straightforward politician.

    He is not a devious little shit like Blair.

    I don't know what will happen in the General Election, but Boris merely has not to lose too badly. (He may win of course). Provided Boris does not lose badly, whoever takes power after the Election will be just as impotent and crippled as the Tory Gov'ts over the last 2 years.

    It is the best way out for Boris.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Byronic said:

    Anyone still claiming there’s a master strategy? It all looks like Frank Spencer rollerskating tonight.


    There’s clearly a strategy. Get MPs so desperate they eventually agree to a new deal, offered by a spooked EU. Whether it works is moot.

    What you’re seeing is tactics. Which vary from day to day, like skirmishes in a larger war.

    From here, any conceivable deal is a defeat for Johnson. No Deal is his only option.

    Agreed. He and Cummings would have gamed what would be the easiest to spin. Boris as the No Dealer with a heavy heart fits the bill. 'I wanted a deal, I really did, but because the people have spoken/Theresa was crap/the EU are nasty/parliament is uncooperative then No Deal it has to be. Let's make it work!'
    If Boris wins a majority before 31st October ironically he can then finally pass the Withdrawal Agreement with some promise about a technical solution for the Irish border from the EU
    What is your assumption about BXP in any election before 31 October? Do you think an agreement with the Tories will be reached, which Boris then would renege on if he passes a deal, or do you think BXP stand in some places but not enough to harm the Tories, or they stand all over the place but still not well enough to stop BoJo?
    There will be no pact with the Brexit Party as that requires abandoning the Withdrawal Agreement completely, Boris still wants to pass the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop and will campaign on that basis with No Deal a last resort to ensure Brexit on October 31st
    Yes, but what do you think BXP will do in response to that, and what level of effect (or not) do you think their actions will have?
  • Byronic said:

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:
    There is no end to these people’s obsequious obeisance to Brussels. Nothing their own country wants matters. It’s all about the greater good.
    That's not exactly what it says, is it?

    Parliament have to agree it.

    Since we have proved incapable as a country of progressing this, perhaps we need wiser heads to give us advice on what is achievable.
    Ugh.
    Why? You and your hideous wine-guzzling, self-aggrandising ilk have utterly fubared things up. The referendum was sold on a lie, and we've been utterly incapable of sorting it out ourselves, because of extremists on all sides - apparently including yourself.

    If you were genuinely interested in the good of the country (which you are not), then you would gaze into the abyss facing us with no-deal and look at taking a little step backwards.

    That doesn't have to mean the end of Brexit. But it does mean we don't have to step joyously over the edge.

    But I daresay you'll be okay, with your expensive wines and foreign jaunts.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.

    Boris will of course refuse to implement an extension using the royal prerogative and would not be breaking the law as Bills need royal signature to become law.

    Though Corbyn said today he would back an election regardless despite Blair warning Corbyn Boris had set an 'elephant trap' for him
    Boris Johnson is not yet the Queen.
    The Queen does what Boris says as she showed when she prorogued Parliament at his request, he is her Chief Minister after all unless the Commons votes for an election or another Chief Minister
    The Queen will think long and hard about becoming the first monarch since Queen Anne to withhold assent. It would be a hugely political act for her to undertake, with or without the Prime Minister’s advice. It would be as controversial as her dismissing the Prime Minister herself.
    I’d expect the private secretary to put immense pressure on Boris not to be an idiot
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Do I not remember many, many posts on pb.com assuring us that Boris could not have a General Election, even if he wanted one?

    Let's see what happens.

    My reading is that Corbyn will vote for a General Election. Not least because he has been asking for one for two years, and his unique selling point is that he is a straightforward politician.

    He is not a devious little shit like Blair.

    I don't know what will happen in the General Election, but Boris merely has not to lose too badly. (He may win of course). Provided Boris does not lose badly, whoever takes power after the Election will be just as impotent and crippled as the Tory Gov'ts over the last 2 years.

    It is the best way out for Boris.

    Yep - I think that looks like it.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Scott_P said:
    I suggest these strategists have a look at the audience queuing outside the Rocky Horror Show in northern towns. Working class people have just as wide a selection of views as middle class ones.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    HYUFD said:

    From anti Brexit ConsEurope but even it gives the Tories more than Labour plus SNP plus Plaid plus Greens combined with LDs or DUP holding the balance of power
    The campaign and , therefore, equal time has not even started. Give a little bit of time.
  • I don’t believe that there has been a single case ever of a Prime Minister advising a monarch not to give royal assent to a bill that both Houses of Parliament have passed. So what is being hinted at is literally without precedent.

    I don’t really understand why anyone thinks the Prime Minister even has a role in this process, never mind a veto.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    edited September 2019

    Whatever happens it'll be the end of the monarchy.

    Is Boris Johnson prepared to put the Queen through that?
    Utter rubbish.

    Voters opposed further extension by 47% to 41% with Survation at the weekend and backed the Queen asserting to proroguing Parliament by a 20% margin.

    56% of Monarchists voted Leave and 65% of Republicans voted Remain so the Queen would also just be delivering for her base

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2018/05/18/who-are-monarchists
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.

    Boris will of course refuse to implement an extension using the royal prerogative and would not be breaking the law as Bills need royal signature to become law.

    Though Corbyn said today he would back an election regardless despite Blair warning Corbyn Boris had set an 'elephant trap' for him
    Boris Johnson is not yet the Queen.
    The Queen does what Boris says as she showed when she prorogued Parliament at his request, he is her Chief Minister after all unless the Commons votes for an election or another Chief Minister
    The Queen will think long and hard about becoming the first monarch since Queen Anne to withhold assent. It would be a hugely political act for her to undertake, with or without the Prime Minister’s advice. It would be as controversial as her dismissing the Prime Minister herself.
    I’d expect the private secretary to put immense pressure on Boris not to be an idiot
    Boris is desperate to pull together his party by becoming BXP, which requires being as Brexity as humanly possible, why would he not take any action to achieve that, and not be humiliated as the shortest serving PM in history, just because of difficulty it caused someone else or an institution?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    I really can’t cope with any more redwood without being physically sick, it’s gone beyond insults telling us we need to get this behind us so that he can deliver his slash and burn vision for the U.K. which only benefits the rich
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    I don’t believe that there has been a single case ever of a Prime Minister advising a monarch not to give royal assent to a bill that both Houses of Parliament have passed. So what is being hinted at is literally without precedent.
    So Boris might well do it and defend it with a whinge that Bercow started this?
  • Off-topic: I'm re-reading Journey to the West. I can recommend it, along with Outlaws of the Marsh, and Three Kingdoms.

    Probably worth noting they're quite big books.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Floater said:

    blueblue said:

    I don't know why everyone is so surprised on here.

    Johnson was elected to re-unite the Right, get Brexit done, and win an election.

    Every single thing he has done has been in service of those goals, and to accomplish them he had had to act with an aggression and decisiveness that is only shocking because it follows 3 years of May doing almost literally nothing.

    I was just going to say he makes a refreshing change from May.
    Why?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,082
    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.

    Boris will of course refuse to implement an extension using the royal prerogative ...
    Not being king, that might be difficult for him.
    Isn't he World King, therefore outranking HRH?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    HYUFD said:

    From anti Brexit ConsEurope but even it gives the Tories more than Labour plus SNP plus Plaid plus Greens combined with LDs or DUP holding the balance of power
    The campaign and , therefore, equal time has not even started. Give a little bit of time.
    Yes Corbyn could be pushed under 20% yet as Labour was in the European Parliament elections (while most Brexit Party voters now back the Tories most LDs in the Euros are sticking with the yellows)
  • kle4 said:

    I don’t believe that there has been a single case ever of a Prime Minister advising a monarch not to give royal assent to a bill that both Houses of Parliament have passed. So what is being hinted at is literally without precedent.
    So Boris might well do it and defend it with a whinge that Bercow started this?
    What is the “it” that he has the power to do? He is not the Queen and there is no precedent saying that the Prime Minister can counsel the Queen not to give Royal Assent.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,963
    GIN1138 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Tony Blair interviewed by Jon Snow on Channel 4 News: "Every morning I wake up thinking about Brexit enraged and in despair".

    If nothing else comes from Brexit how nice to know that it's caused Tony Blair so much upset... :D
    Brexit - the gift that keeps on giving.
This discussion has been closed.