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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Like the French strategy with the Maginot Line the Cummings &

SystemSystem Posts: 6,666
edited September 3 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Like the French strategy with the Maginot Line the Cummings & Johnson Brexit strategy might turn out to a minor flaw

This is all very reminiscent of the French strategy with the Maginot Line, they weren't prepared for their opponents to go around them. https://t.co/cugJm1Vsfn

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 15,733
    edited September 3
    Labour's Frit !
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 914
    edited September 3
    All good points. First?
    Edit: QTWTAIN.
  • Usman Khawaja has been left out of Australia's 12-man squad for this week's fourth Ashes Test against England at Old Trafford as paceman Mitchell Starc is recalled.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 15,851
    2 WWII analogies and it's only 10:30? You're spoiling us ambassador.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 4,213
    "No deal cannot BOTH be perfectly manageable (for U.K. audiences) and yet so terrible that the threat of it will force the EU to cave in."

    Of course, it's far more likely that it will be terrible for the UK but manageable for the rest of the EU.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 50,988
    Well, quite.

    It reminds me a bit of the Top Gear police cars. Specifically, Hammond's not-very-long stinger.
  • So Grieve thinks it's all up to Corbyn as to whether they'll be an election, but essentially seems confident that the anti-no deal will pass.

    A great feat of strategic positioning and control at No. 10 ? It doesn't look like it.
  • DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,195


    Says he's undecided how to vote today but it's another MP for Boris to sweat over.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 77,123
    edited September 3

    2 WWII analogies and it's only 10:30? You're spoiling us ambassador.

    I've got a WWI analogy coming up in the next few days, and a civil war one as well.

    I feel it is my duty to educate PBers on history during my stints as guest editor.

    The WWI piece contains a pun on the name of Ferdinand Foch, 'supporters of Foch's strategy, let us call them Fochers'
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 4,489

    So Grieve thinks it's all up to Corbyn as to whether they'll be an election, but essentially seems confident that the anti-no deal will pass.

    A great feat of strategic positioning and control at No. 10 ? It doesn't look like it.

    Let’s not underestimate Cummings.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 1,952
    The Maginot analogy would be completely convincing, if only Corbyn wasn't Labour leader.

    He is so stupid, and pig headed, he might just pull defeat from victory's jaws, by agreeing to a GE before Brexit/the extension is dealt with
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 28,335
    Today's order of business in the HoC:


    "Time Business
    2:30pm
    Oral questions
    Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (including Topical Questions)

    Ten Minute Rule Motion
    Clean Air

    Legislation
    Census (Return Particulars and Removal of Penalties) Bill [Lords]: proceedings in Committee and remaining stages

    Adjournment
    Implications for the sheep industry of the UK leaving the EU without a deal"

    https://www.parliament.uk/business/commons/
  • Chris said:

    "No deal cannot BOTH be perfectly manageable (for U.K. audiences) and yet so terrible that the threat of it will force the EU to cave in."

    Of course, it's far more likely that it will be terrible for the UK but manageable for the rest of the EU.

    The only certainty about No Deal is that UK citizens and businesses will have less freedom than they do now and the UK government will have less control. Beyond these, nothing is knowable for sure.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 19,795
    Byronic said:

    The Maginot analogy would be completely convincing, if only Corbyn wasn't Labour leader.

    He is so stupid, and pig headed, he might just pull defeat from victory's jaws, by agreeing to a GE before Brexit/the extension is dealt with

    He is the gift to wavering Cons that keeps on giving.

    How's the Greek sunshine btw?
  • Chris said:

    "No deal cannot BOTH be perfectly manageable (for U.K. audiences) and yet so terrible that the threat of it will force the EU to cave in."

    Of course, it's far more likely that it will be terrible for the UK but manageable for the rest of the EU.

    Not true.

    No deal can be a problem but one we are prepared to live with to gain the benefits of freedom and the ability to set our own laws, customs and have our own courts interpret them.

    On the other hand the EU and Ireland especially gain no benefits from no deal. They suffer the consequences but only we reap the rewards.

    The fact that you still fail to recognise there are any rewards to Brexit is why you are struggling with this misapprehension.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 14,566
    edited September 3

    Usman Khawaja has been left out of Australia's 12-man squad for this week's fourth Ashes Test against England at Old Trafford as paceman Mitchell Starc is recalled.

    Yes, but who are they going to drop form the twelve to play Starc ?
    They've limited their options by not picking Mitchell Marsh.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 35,345
    edited September 3
    Nigelb said:

    Usman Khawaja has been left out of Australia's 12-man squad for this week's fourth Ashes Test against England at Old Trafford as paceman Mitchell Starc is recalled.

    Yes, but who are they going to drop form the twelve to play Starc ?
    They've limited their options by not picking Mitchell Marsh.
    Pat Cummins, Peter Siddle, Mitchell Starc, Nathan Lyon, Josh Hazlewood are the bowlers in the 12. I would guess Siddle doesn't get picked.

    The problem with Mitchell Marsh is he ain't good enough.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 1,952
    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    The Maginot analogy would be completely convincing, if only Corbyn wasn't Labour leader.

    He is so stupid, and pig headed, he might just pull defeat from victory's jaws, by agreeing to a GE before Brexit/the extension is dealt with

    He is the gift to wavering Cons that keeps on giving.

    How's the Greek sunshine btw?
    Relentless but pleasant. Do they ever have an autumn here? It is forecast 30+C and cloudless for the foreseeable.

    On Thursday I go to fabled Mycenae. Then home. Ah well.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 54,335
    Nigelb said:

    Usman Khawaja has been left out of Australia's 12-man squad for this week's fourth Ashes Test against England at Old Trafford as paceman Mitchell Starc is recalled.

    yes, but who are they going to drop form the twelve to play Starc ?
    They've limited their options by not picking Mitchell Marsh.
    England will be relieved that Tim Paine hasn't dropped himself for Mitch Marsh.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Usman Khawaja has been left out of Australia's 12-man squad for this week's fourth Ashes Test against England at Old Trafford as paceman Mitchell Starc is recalled.

    yes, but who are they going to drop form the twelve to play Starc ?
    They've limited their options by not picking Mitchell Marsh.
    England will be relieved that Tim Paine hasn't dropped himself for Mitch Marsh.
    Then who would captain the team ;-)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 14,566
    edited September 3

    Nigelb said:

    Usman Khawaja has been left out of Australia's 12-man squad for this week's fourth Ashes Test against England at Old Trafford as paceman Mitchell Starc is recalled.

    Yes, but who are they going to drop form the twelve to play Starc ?
    They've limited their options by not picking Mitchell Marsh.
    Pat Cummins, Peter Siddle, Mitchell Starc, Nathan Lyon, Josh Hazlewood are the bowlers in the 12. I would guess Siddle doesn't get picked.
    They'll be hoping England don't bat for long in that case. Siddle can bowl the long reliable stints - and Old Trafford is perhaps not the ideal pitch for Lyon.
  • So Grieve thinks it's all up to Corbyn as to whether they'll be an election, but essentially seems confident that the anti-no deal will pass.

    A great feat of strategic positioning and control at No. 10 ? It doesn't look like it.

    Does it matter if the anti-no deal legislation passes before an election?

    If Boris goes into the election saying he will not extend under any circumstances and if he wins a majority then he can either repeal the legislation or whip his MPs to reject the extension.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 35,345
    edited September 3
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Usman Khawaja has been left out of Australia's 12-man squad for this week's fourth Ashes Test against England at Old Trafford as paceman Mitchell Starc is recalled.

    Yes, but who are they going to drop form the twelve to play Starc ?
    They've limited their options by not picking Mitchell Marsh.
    Pat Cummins, Peter Siddle, Mitchell Starc, Nathan Lyon, Josh Hazlewood are the bowlers in the 12. I would guess Siddle doesn't get picked.
    They'll be hoping England don't bat for long in that case. Siddle can bowl the long reliable stints.
    Well unless Stokes and Leach get in again, not much worry about that. Apparently Denly is going to open and Roy come in at 4, and so Root still in at 3 rather than playing our best batsman in his best position....
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 11,954
    GIN1138 said:

    Labour's Frit !

    Lanour's got Johnson by the balls
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 54,335

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Usman Khawaja has been left out of Australia's 12-man squad for this week's fourth Ashes Test against England at Old Trafford as paceman Mitchell Starc is recalled.

    yes, but who are they going to drop form the twelve to play Starc ?
    They've limited their options by not picking Mitchell Marsh.
    England will be relieved that Tim Paine hasn't dropped himself for Mitch Marsh.
    Then who would captain the team ;-)
    Head (c), Wade keeps,
    Marsh, Cummins, Lyon, Starc, Hazlewood 5 man bowling attack
  • At least one England Test player will be signed to each of the eight men's teams competing in The Hundred, the new 100-ball competition starting in 2020.

    Each city-based side will first have the chance to select one England player based in their catchment area.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/49551497

    I am just so excited, I can't wait.....sarcasm alert.
  • Too clever by half. If you are the PM you make the call whether to ask for an early election. Brown trailed that he would then didn't. May said she wouldn't then she did. Boris said he wouldn't but is forcing his opponents to make him ask for one. But does that work ? It's like the Rugby playing class bully saying that the four computer code geeks ganged up on him and made him give up his lunch money. At best it shreds your own brand as strong and at worst no one believes you.

    And where does prorogation fit in all this. Why burn all that political capital, provoke counter mobilisation, involve the monarchy, look undemocratic if just one week later you are then disolving rather than prorouging ? I just don't see a coherent narrative.
  • Chris said:

    "No deal cannot BOTH be perfectly manageable (for U.K. audiences) and yet so terrible that the threat of it will force the EU to cave in."

    Of course, it's far more likely that it will be terrible for the UK but manageable for the rest of the EU.

    Not true.

    No deal can be a problem but one we are prepared to live with to gain the benefits of freedom and the ability to set our own laws, customs and have our own courts interpret them.

    On the other hand the EU and Ireland especially gain no benefits from no deal. They suffer the consequences but only we reap the rewards.

    The fact that you still fail to recognise there are any rewards to Brexit is why you are struggling with this misapprehension.
    I agree with that. But then why have neither the Leave campaign nor the current government been willing to come clean about the costs as well as the benefits, rather than consistently playing down the former and talking up the latter? My feeling about Brexit would be very different if the Leave campaign had won 52:48 warning people that there would be material economic costs but that it would be worth it instead of saying it was a free lunch with money left over for the NHS.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Usman Khawaja has been left out of Australia's 12-man squad for this week's fourth Ashes Test against England at Old Trafford as paceman Mitchell Starc is recalled.

    yes, but who are they going to drop form the twelve to play Starc ?
    They've limited their options by not picking Mitchell Marsh.
    England will be relieved that Tim Paine hasn't dropped himself for Mitch Marsh.
    Then who would captain the team ;-)
    Head (c), Wade keeps,
    Marsh, Cummins, Lyon, Starc, Hazlewood 5 man bowling attack
    They could anybody down as (c), cos we all know the real captain is back this game.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 50,988
    I'm not a cricketist, but the 100 ball competition just sounds stupid to me.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 1,510
    edited September 3

    So Grieve thinks it's all up to Corbyn as to whether they'll be an election, but essentially seems confident that the anti-no deal will pass.

    A great feat of strategic positioning and control at No. 10 ? It doesn't look like it.

    Does it matter if the anti-no deal legislation passes before an election?

    If Boris goes into the election saying he will not extend under any circumstances and if he wins a majority then he can either repeal the legislation or whip his MPs to reject the extension.
    Well exactly.

    EDIT: the problem is the Lords.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Usman Khawaja has been left out of Australia's 12-man squad for this week's fourth Ashes Test against England at Old Trafford as paceman Mitchell Starc is recalled.

    yes, but who are they going to drop form the twelve to play Starc ?
    They've limited their options by not picking Mitchell Marsh.
    England will be relieved that Tim Paine hasn't dropped himself for Mitch Marsh.
    Then who would captain the team ;-)
    Head (c), Wade keeps,
    Marsh, Cummins, Lyon, Starc, Hazlewood 5 man bowling attack
    A five man bowling attack...the cricketing authorities would do their nut as they will be refunding Day 3-5 ticket sales, as the game not likely to get past 180 overs.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 14,566

    I'm not a cricketist, but the 100 ball competition just sounds stupid to me.

    It sounds even more so to those who are.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Usman Khawaja has been left out of Australia's 12-man squad for this week's fourth Ashes Test against England at Old Trafford as paceman Mitchell Starc is recalled.

    yes, but who are they going to drop form the twelve to play Starc ?
    They've limited their options by not picking Mitchell Marsh.
    England will be relieved that Tim Paine hasn't dropped himself for Mitch Marsh.
    Then who would captain the team ;-)
    Head (c), Wade keeps,
    Marsh, Cummins, Lyon, Starc, Hazlewood 5 man bowling attack
    They could anybody down as (c), cos we all know the real captain is back this game.
    I’m so looking forward to this test.

    Can you believe a few days ago some numpty was offering his Old Trafford tickets and the rest of his Headingley tickets for a fiver?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 15,940

    Nigelb said:

    Usman Khawaja has been left out of Australia's 12-man squad for this week's fourth Ashes Test against England at Old Trafford as paceman Mitchell Starc is recalled.

    Yes, but who are they going to drop form the twelve to play Starc ?
    They've limited their options by not picking Mitchell Marsh.
    Pat Cummins, Peter Siddle, Mitchell Starc, Nathan Lyon, Josh Hazlewood are the bowlers in the 12. I would guess Siddle doesn't get picked.

    The problem with Mitchell Marsh is he ain't good enough.
    If Siddle isn't he picked he can come back to Essex and we'll win the Championship. We could well do so anyway, of course.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 50,988
    Mr. Submarine, and there's only a few days cut due to the prorogation anyway. He burnt a shilling's worth of candles in a bid to win a farthing.
  • I'm not a cricketist, but the 100 ball competition just sounds stupid to me.

    I mean its not like there isn't already 50 over and 20 overs matches. T20 seems to me the perfect "balance", as it is done and dusted in 3hrs. The Friday night games seem very popular. Seems like they need to adjust the calendar to make them all nights were people can go as a night out i.e. not a Tuesday night.
  • Nigelb said:

    I'm not a cricketist, but the 100 ball competition just sounds stupid to me.

    It sounds even more so to those who are.
    100 balls is 16.66 [or 16.4] overs.

    Why would you have an innings without completing an over? Or are they going to make it a T20 with 5 balls instead of 6 per over?

    That's just close enough to being a T20 without actually being one. Seems really dumb to me.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 28,335
  • GIN1138 said:

    Labour's Frit !

    I think you are just being hopeful that Corbyn is daft enough to do want you want.

    You may get your wish ;)
  • Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Usman Khawaja has been left out of Australia's 12-man squad for this week's fourth Ashes Test against England at Old Trafford as paceman Mitchell Starc is recalled.

    yes, but who are they going to drop form the twelve to play Starc ?
    They've limited their options by not picking Mitchell Marsh.
    England will be relieved that Tim Paine hasn't dropped himself for Mitch Marsh.
    Then who would captain the team ;-)
    Head (c), Wade keeps,
    Marsh, Cummins, Lyon, Starc, Hazlewood 5 man bowling attack
    They could anybody down as (c), cos we all know the real captain is back this game.
    I’m so looking forward to this test.

    Can you believe a few days ago some numpty was offering his Old Trafford tickets and the rest of his Headingley tickets for a fiver?
    Are you going to all 5, sorry 3 days?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 35,409
    No tease like an old tease (-a touch ungallant - Ed?)

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 14,566
    A timely find...
    Unknown text by John Locke reveals roots of 'foundational democratic ideas'
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/sep/03/unknown-text-by-john-locke-reveals-roots-of-foundational-democratic-ideas
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 19,795

    Chris said:

    "No deal cannot BOTH be perfectly manageable (for U.K. audiences) and yet so terrible that the threat of it will force the EU to cave in."

    Of course, it's far more likely that it will be terrible for the UK but manageable for the rest of the EU.

    Not true.

    No deal can be a problem but one we are prepared to live with to gain the benefits of freedom and the ability to set our own laws, customs and have our own courts interpret them.

    On the other hand the EU and Ireland especially gain no benefits from no deal. They suffer the consequences but only we reap the rewards.

    The fact that you still fail to recognise there are any rewards to Brexit is why you are struggling with this misapprehension.
    They maintain the integrity of the EU. It's not all about the money, honey.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 54,335

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Usman Khawaja has been left out of Australia's 12-man squad for this week's fourth Ashes Test against England at Old Trafford as paceman Mitchell Starc is recalled.

    yes, but who are they going to drop form the twelve to play Starc ?
    They've limited their options by not picking Mitchell Marsh.
    England will be relieved that Tim Paine hasn't dropped himself for Mitch Marsh.
    Then who would captain the team ;-)
    Head (c), Wade keeps,
    Marsh, Cummins, Lyon, Starc, Hazlewood 5 man bowling attack
    A five man bowling attack...the cricketing authorities would do their nut as they will be refunding Day 3-5 ticket sales, as the game not likely to get past 180 overs.
    Marsh can probably get more runs than Paine.

    Harris, Warner, Smith, Labuschagne, Head (c), Wade (w), Marsh, Cummins, Lyon, Starc, Hazlewood is how I'd roll.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 1,123

    So Grieve thinks it's all up to Corbyn as to whether they'll be an election, but essentially seems confident that the anti-no deal will pass.

    A great feat of strategic positioning and control at No. 10 ? It doesn't look like it.

    Does it matter if the anti-no deal legislation passes before an election?

    If Boris goes into the election saying he will not extend under any circumstances and if he wins a majority then he can either repeal the legislation or whip his MPs to reject the extension.
    Then the election will be fought under "a vote for Con is a vote for No Deal." It's difficult to see a Con majority without the support of the conservative moderates.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 20,385
    TOPPING said:

    Chris said:

    "No deal cannot BOTH be perfectly manageable (for U.K. audiences) and yet so terrible that the threat of it will force the EU to cave in."

    Of course, it's far more likely that it will be terrible for the UK but manageable for the rest of the EU.

    Not true.

    No deal can be a problem but one we are prepared to live with to gain the benefits of freedom and the ability to set our own laws, customs and have our own courts interpret them.

    On the other hand the EU and Ireland especially gain no benefits from no deal. They suffer the consequences but only we reap the rewards.

    The fact that you still fail to recognise there are any rewards to Brexit is why you are struggling with this misapprehension.
    They maintain the integrity of the EU. It's not all about the money, honey.
    yes weve been telling you that for three years :-)
  • 2 WWII analogies and it's only 10:30? You're spoiling us ambassador.

    I've got a WWI analogy coming up in the next few days, and a civil war one as well.

    I feel it is my duty to educate PBers on history during my stints as guest editor.

    The WWI piece contains a pun on the name of Ferdinand Foch, 'supporters of Foch's strategy, let us call them Fochers'
    Oh for Foch's sake...
  • Nigelb said:

    I'm not a cricketist, but the 100 ball competition just sounds stupid to me.

    It sounds even more so to those who are.
    100 balls is 16.66 [or 16.4] overs.

    Why would you have an innings without completing an over? Or are they going to make it a T20 with 5 balls instead of 6 per over?

    That's just close enough to being a T20 without actually being one. Seems really dumb to me.
    Its like saying what we need in football is a 10 a-side tournament, because EPL, Champions League, Europa League, FA Cup and League Cup just aren't exciting enough for fans.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 14,566
    I now understand how and why Dominic Cummings managed to make Michael Gove the country's most unpopular politician...

    You should put more trust in @ydoethur who made this entirely clear years ago.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Usman Khawaja has been left out of Australia's 12-man squad for this week's fourth Ashes Test against England at Old Trafford as paceman Mitchell Starc is recalled.

    yes, but who are they going to drop form the twelve to play Starc ?
    They've limited their options by not picking Mitchell Marsh.
    England will be relieved that Tim Paine hasn't dropped himself for Mitch Marsh.
    Then who would captain the team ;-)
    Head (c), Wade keeps,
    Marsh, Cummins, Lyon, Starc, Hazlewood 5 man bowling attack
    They could anybody down as (c), cos we all know the real captain is back this game.
    I’m so looking forward to this test.

    Can you believe a few days ago some numpty was offering his Old Trafford tickets and the rest of his Headingley tickets for a fiver?
    Are you going to all 5, sorry 3 days?
    I have tickets to all five days. Expect a refund for day five.

    That said one of the locals thinks the Aussies are going to use more concussion substitutes than there are days play.

    This pitch is quite bouncy.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 54,335
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 14,566

    2 WWII analogies and it's only 10:30? You're spoiling us ambassador.

    I've got a WWI analogy coming up in the next few days, and a civil war one as well.

    I feel it is my duty to educate PBers on history during my stints as guest editor.

    The WWI piece contains a pun on the name of Ferdinand Foch, 'supporters of Foch's strategy, let us call them Fochers'
    That's almost a Focher Tri-pun.

  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 1,123
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Usman Khawaja has been left out of Australia's 12-man squad for this week's fourth Ashes Test against England at Old Trafford as paceman Mitchell Starc is recalled.

    yes, but who are they going to drop form the twelve to play Starc ?
    They've limited their options by not picking Mitchell Marsh.
    England will be relieved that Tim Paine hasn't dropped himself for Mitch Marsh.
    Then who would captain the team ;-)
    Head (c), Wade keeps,
    Marsh, Cummins, Lyon, Starc, Hazlewood 5 man bowling attack
    A five man bowling attack...the cricketing authorities would do their nut as they will be refunding Day 3-5 ticket sales, as the game not likely to get past 180 overs.
    Marsh can probably get more runs than Paine.

    Harris, Warner, Smith, Labuschagne, Head (c), Wade (w), Marsh, Cummins, Lyon, Starc, Hazlewood is how I'd roll.
    I saw an entire Test match live, which only lasted 3 days. I enjoyed every minute of it and was not at all disappointed that I had a spare couple of days in Fremantle.
  • So Grieve thinks it's all up to Corbyn as to whether they'll be an election, but essentially seems confident that the anti-no deal will pass.

    A great feat of strategic positioning and control at No. 10 ? It doesn't look like it.

    Does it matter if the anti-no deal legislation passes before an election?

    If Boris goes into the election saying he will not extend under any circumstances and if he wins a majority then he can either repeal the legislation or whip his MPs to reject the extension.
    Well exactly.

    EDIT: the problem is the Lords.
    Actually no its not.

    Re-reading the anti-No Deal legislation the legislation can be voided by a vote of the Commons, the Lords get a debate but no vote.

    Under subsection (1) [in case of a deal] or subsection (2) [in case of no deal] the Commons must approve a motion saying they agree to a deal, or agree to no deal, but the Lords simply must either conclude a debate or simply not conclude a debate within 2 days.

    So what's to prevent the legislation passing, then we have an election, then Boris whips his new majority to back a deal [or no deal] and then there's no extension.

    It will be the election result that matters, not this legislation. The legislation is meaningless if Boris has a majority. Seems an odd hill to die on.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 15,940
    Byronic said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    The Maginot analogy would be completely convincing, if only Corbyn wasn't Labour leader.

    He is so stupid, and pig headed, he might just pull defeat from victory's jaws, by agreeing to a GE before Brexit/the extension is dealt with

    He is the gift to wavering Cons that keeps on giving.

    How's the Greek sunshine btw?
    Relentless but pleasant. Do they ever have an autumn here? It is forecast 30+C and cloudless for the foreseeable.

    On Thursday I go to fabled Mycenae. Then home. Ah well.

    A couple of years ago I went to the end of Winter festival in Bangkok; “Oon Ai Rak Klay Kwam Nao”, or “Warm Love to Temper the Cold”. Was in February. Temperature was round about then 30 mark (C). Had been as low as 22 or so.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 19,795

    TOPPING said:

    Chris said:

    "No deal cannot BOTH be perfectly manageable (for U.K. audiences) and yet so terrible that the threat of it will force the EU to cave in."

    Of course, it's far more likely that it will be terrible for the UK but manageable for the rest of the EU.

    Not true.

    No deal can be a problem but one we are prepared to live with to gain the benefits of freedom and the ability to set our own laws, customs and have our own courts interpret them.

    On the other hand the EU and Ireland especially gain no benefits from no deal. They suffer the consequences but only we reap the rewards.

    The fact that you still fail to recognise there are any rewards to Brexit is why you are struggling with this misapprehension.
    They maintain the integrity of the EU. It's not all about the money, honey.
    yes weve been telling you that for three years :-)
    And I have been receptive. The only thing which jars is when people say it's about UK sovereignty and not the economincs...AND YET...the EU will cave for wholly economic reasons.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 3,825



    On the other hand the EU and Ireland especially gain no benefits from no deal. They suffer the consequences but only we reap the rewards.

    They gain by making it even less likely than another country is going to come up with an analogous neologism to 'Brexit' and try to leave the EU. That is a stellar benefit as it reinforces both the permanence and direction of The Project. The fact that you fail to grasp the significance of this is why you're wrong about everything.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 54,335
    I reckon selection to the Aus side is less to do with form and more how good mates you are with Langer anyway. I think he'll be getting sacked and Paine dropped when we win.
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Usman Khawaja has been left out of Australia's 12-man squad for this week's fourth Ashes Test against England at Old Trafford as paceman Mitchell Starc is recalled.

    Yes, but who are they going to drop form the twelve to play Starc ?
    They've limited their options by not picking Mitchell Marsh.
    Pat Cummins, Peter Siddle, Mitchell Starc, Nathan Lyon, Josh Hazlewood are the bowlers in the 12. I would guess Siddle doesn't get picked.
    They'll be hoping England don't bat for long in that case. Siddle can bowl the long reliable stints.
    Well unless Stokes and Leach get in again, not much worry about that. Apparently Denly is going to open and Roy come in at 4, and so Root still in at 3 rather than playing our best batsman in his best position....
    It's as if the Selectors think they can hide the known batting weaknesses by shuffling the order. If they are going to do that, why not be truly radical? I suggest opening with Leach and Archer in the hope they can take a bit of shine off the ball before the proper batsmen come in.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 15,733
    What other excuses will Labour MPs come up with not to face the electorate then?
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 1,123

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Usman Khawaja has been left out of Australia's 12-man squad for this week's fourth Ashes Test against England at Old Trafford as paceman Mitchell Starc is recalled.

    yes, but who are they going to drop form the twelve to play Starc ?
    They've limited their options by not picking Mitchell Marsh.
    England will be relieved that Tim Paine hasn't dropped himself for Mitch Marsh.
    Then who would captain the team ;-)
    Head (c), Wade keeps,
    Marsh, Cummins, Lyon, Starc, Hazlewood 5 man bowling attack
    They could anybody down as (c), cos we all know the real captain is back this game.
    I’m so looking forward to this test.

    Can you believe a few days ago some numpty was offering his Old Trafford tickets and the rest of his Headingley tickets for a fiver?
    Are you going to all 5, sorry 3 days?
    I have tickets to all five days. Expect a refund for day five.

    That said one of the locals thinks the Aussies are going to use more concussion substitutes than there are days play.

    This pitch is quite bouncy.
    Did you pay for 5 days? For an "entire Test ticket" I only paid the price of 3 days. (In Australia in 2000)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 35,345
    edited September 3
    The US Anti-Doping Agency has withdrawn its case against sprinter Christian Coleman, the fastest man in the world this year.

    Coleman, 23, had been charged with missing three drugs tests and was facing an automatic one-year ban.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/49558809

    Hmmmm...there is a fantastic interview on the intewebs with Victor Conte (the man behind doping lots of the top athletes in the 2000s). He explains how if one was wanting to dope, how one would play the MIA system, and those that regularly miss tests over their career should be very suspicious of.
  • NooNoo Posts: 788
    Manchester Originals based at Old Trafford, Manchester
    Northern Superchargers based at Headingley, Leeds
    Birmingham Phoenix based at Edgbaston, Birmingham
    Trent Rockets based at Trent Bridge, Nottingham
    Welsh Fire based at Sophia Gardens, Cardiff
    London Spirit based at Lord's, London
    Oval Invincibles based at The Oval, London
    Southern Brave based at Ageas Bowl, Southampton

    These sound like Quiddich teams.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 20,385
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Chris said:

    "No deal cannot BOTH be perfectly manageable (for U.K. audiences) and yet so terrible that the threat of it will force the EU to cave in."

    Of course, it's far more likely that it will be terrible for the UK but manageable for the rest of the EU.

    Not true.

    No deal can be a problem but one we are prepared to live with to gain the benefits of freedom and the ability to set our own laws, customs and have our own courts interpret them.

    On the other hand the EU and Ireland especially gain no benefits from no deal. They suffer the consequences but only we reap the rewards.

    The fact that you still fail to recognise there are any rewards to Brexit is why you are struggling with this misapprehension.
    They maintain the integrity of the EU. It's not all about the money, honey.
    yes weve been telling you that for three years :-)
    And I have been receptive. The only thing which jars is when people say it's about UK sovereignty and not the economincs...AND YET...the EU will cave for wholly economic reasons.
    Yes, whats sauce for the goose,

    Really both sides have painted themselves in to corners and need a fudge of some sort to be able to climb down and move on.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 4,489
    Vauxhall voted 80% to Remain so clearly it will be a Tory gain.
  • Pulpstar said:

    I reckon selection to the Aus side is less to do with form and more how good mates you are with Langer anyway. I think he'll be getting sacked and Paine dropped when we win.

    Now you have gone and ruined it...off to Tory Home you go.
  • Dura_Ace said:



    On the other hand the EU and Ireland especially gain no benefits from no deal. They suffer the consequences but only we reap the rewards.

    They gain by making it even less likely than another country is going to come up with an analogous neologism to 'Brexit' and try to leave the EU. That is a stellar benefit as it reinforces both the permanence and direction of The Project. The fact that you fail to grasp the significance of this is why you're wrong about everything.
    You think that's what the Irish are trying to gain? You think the Irish will be delighted to see no deal but at least The Project is secure?
  • If there was one person you would choose to be making the big calls for the opposition right now if you were Cummings and Johnson, it would be Corbyn. He has proved so adept at seizing disaster from triumph over the last few years - especially in Parliament - that you would not bet against him doing it again. Starmer, McDonnell and co need to keep him in a locked room and away from Milne, McCluskey, Murray, Murphy and the rest of the Morning Star Brexiteers. If they don't, I suspect he will deliver to Cummings exactly what he is after.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 4,489

    Dura_Ace said:



    On the other hand the EU and Ireland especially gain no benefits from no deal. They suffer the consequences but only we reap the rewards.

    They gain by making it even less likely than another country is going to come up with an analogous neologism to 'Brexit' and try to leave the EU. That is a stellar benefit as it reinforces both the permanence and direction of The Project. The fact that you fail to grasp the significance of this is why you're wrong about everything.
    You think that's what the Irish are trying to gain? You think the Irish will be delighted to see no deal but at least The Project is secure?
    Yes.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 2,013
    "The French strategy with the Maginot Line" is a good analogy. For anyone who, like me, is watching the Vuelta a Espana at the moment, another analogy is that Dominic Cummings' grasp of strategy appears to be closest to that of Eusebio Unzué, manager of Movistar. Or as Gary Imlach put it on ITV 4 the other day, "maybe we can use this high-powered telescope to see if there's any signs of intelligent life on Planet Movistar".
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 30,182
    GIN1138 said:

    What other excuses will Labour MPs come up with not to face the electorate then?
    Would such a bill get past the Lords?
  • Noo said:

    Manchester Originals based at Old Trafford, Manchester
    Northern Superchargers based at Headingley, Leeds
    Birmingham Phoenix based at Edgbaston, Birmingham
    Trent Rockets based at Trent Bridge, Nottingham
    Welsh Fire based at Sophia Gardens, Cardiff
    London Spirit based at Lord's, London
    Oval Invincibles based at The Oval, London
    Southern Brave based at Ageas Bowl, Southampton

    These sound like Quiddich teams.

    Northern Superchargers --- Surely they should be called the Northern PowerHouses.
  • Dura_Ace said:



    On the other hand the EU and Ireland especially gain no benefits from no deal. They suffer the consequences but only we reap the rewards.

    They gain by making it even less likely than another country is going to come up with an analogous neologism to 'Brexit' and try to leave the EU. That is a stellar benefit as it reinforces both the permanence and direction of The Project. The fact that you fail to grasp the significance of this is why you're wrong about everything.
    You think that's what the Irish are trying to gain? You think the Irish will be delighted to see no deal but at least The Project is secure?
    Yes.
    Good job we're leaving the union then.

    Let them eat The Project.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 11,651

    Noo said:

    Manchester Originals based at Old Trafford, Manchester
    Northern Superchargers based at Headingley, Leeds
    Birmingham Phoenix based at Edgbaston, Birmingham
    Trent Rockets based at Trent Bridge, Nottingham
    Welsh Fire based at Sophia Gardens, Cardiff
    London Spirit based at Lord's, London
    Oval Invincibles based at The Oval, London
    Southern Brave based at Ageas Bowl, Southampton

    These sound like Quiddich teams.

    Northern Superchargers --- Surely they should be called the Northern PowerHouses.
    Can't imagine the good people of Leeds are happy being called "Northern" when Manchester gets to be called "Manchester".
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 20,385

    GIN1138 said:

    What other excuses will Labour MPs come up with not to face the electorate then?
    Would such a bill get past the Lords?
    More likely the Courts would be the first port of call
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 15,851
    The DUP are her true spiritual brothers and sisters. Perhaps she should do a test run for when Arlene and the Unionist political class decamp to the mainland after reunification.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 4,538

    Chris said:

    "No deal cannot BOTH be perfectly manageable (for U.K. audiences) and yet so terrible that the threat of it will force the EU to cave in."

    Of course, it's far more likely that it will be terrible for the UK but manageable for the rest of the EU.

    Not true.

    No deal can be a problem but one we are prepared to live with to gain the benefits of freedom and the ability to set our own laws, customs and have our own courts interpret them.

    On the other hand the EU and Ireland especially gain no benefits from no deal. They suffer the consequences but only we reap the rewards.

    The fact that you still fail to recognise there are any rewards to Brexit is why you are struggling with this misapprehension.
    Although the EU would prefer to avoid No Deal, they do gain two benefits from a No Deal (rather than caving on the backstop).

    1. By not caving on the backstop they avoid the cost of undermining the Single Market.

    2. They allow the UK to be a pitied abject example who will come crawling back.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 4,489
    tlg86 said:

    Noo said:

    Manchester Originals based at Old Trafford, Manchester
    Northern Superchargers based at Headingley, Leeds
    Birmingham Phoenix based at Edgbaston, Birmingham
    Trent Rockets based at Trent Bridge, Nottingham
    Welsh Fire based at Sophia Gardens, Cardiff
    London Spirit based at Lord's, London
    Oval Invincibles based at The Oval, London
    Southern Brave based at Ageas Bowl, Southampton

    These sound like Quiddich teams.

    Northern Superchargers --- Surely they should be called the Northern PowerHouses.
    Can't imagine the good people of Leeds are happy being called "Northern" when Manchester gets to be called "Manchester".
    Where’s Durham?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 54,335
    Noo said:

    Manchester Originals based at Old Trafford, Manchester
    Northern Superchargers based at Headingley, Leeds
    Birmingham Phoenix based at Edgbaston, Birmingham
    Trent Rockets based at Trent Bridge, Nottingham
    Welsh Fire based at Sophia Gardens, Cardiff
    London Spirit based at Lord's, London
    Oval Invincibles based at The Oval, London
    Southern Brave based at Ageas Bowl, Southampton

    These sound like Quiddich teams.

    Birmingham Phoenix ?!

    I'm not a fan of the rebranding of Warwickshire to Birmingham but the "Birmingham Bears" is clearly the brand to go with.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 11,954
    Thank God Owen Smith was thrashed.

    What a twat
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 30,182

    GIN1138 said:

    What other excuses will Labour MPs come up with not to face the electorate then?
    Would such a bill get past the Lords?
    More likely the Courts would be the first port of call
    My point is it's not a slam dunk alternative that can get through this week.

    I'd have thought the "easier" alternative would be the VoNC.
  • tlg86 said:

    Noo said:

    Manchester Originals based at Old Trafford, Manchester
    Northern Superchargers based at Headingley, Leeds
    Birmingham Phoenix based at Edgbaston, Birmingham
    Trent Rockets based at Trent Bridge, Nottingham
    Welsh Fire based at Sophia Gardens, Cardiff
    London Spirit based at Lord's, London
    Oval Invincibles based at The Oval, London
    Southern Brave based at Ageas Bowl, Southampton

    These sound like Quiddich teams.

    Northern Superchargers --- Surely they should be called the Northern PowerHouses.
    Can't imagine the good people of Leeds are happy being called "Northern" when Manchester gets to be called "Manchester".
    Where’s Durham?
    Still in the poorhouse.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 1,123

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Usman Khawaja has been left out of Australia's 12-man squad for this week's fourth Ashes Test against England at Old Trafford as paceman Mitchell Starc is recalled.

    Yes, but who are they going to drop form the twelve to play Starc ?
    They've limited their options by not picking Mitchell Marsh.
    Pat Cummins, Peter Siddle, Mitchell Starc, Nathan Lyon, Josh Hazlewood are the bowlers in the 12. I would guess Siddle doesn't get picked.
    They'll be hoping England don't bat for long in that case. Siddle can bowl the long reliable stints.
    Well unless Stokes and Leach get in again, not much worry about that. Apparently Denly is going to open and Roy come in at 4, and so Root still in at 3 rather than playing our best batsman in his best position....
    It's as if the Selectors think they can hide the known batting weaknesses by shuffling the order. If they are going to do that, why not be truly radical? I suggest opening with Leach and Archer in the hope they can take a bit of shine off the ball before the proper batsmen come in.
    Archer showed little sign of patience while batting, and last Sunday Leach was facing bowlers who had been "on the field" for 24 hours. It is a totally different kettle of fish to take the shine off the new ball at 11:02 on the first morning.

    Leaving Stokes or Bairstow stranded at the end of the innings is a much higer price to pay for this strategy.
  • Maybe Dominic Cummings is Nick Timothy in disguise? An over hyped nonentity who thinks he is much cleverer than he actually is, and is much less clever than his gullible boss thinks he is. When are we going to get politicians and their advisors who have actually done proper jobs, and are therefore tested in the real world?
  • TOPPING said:

    Chris said:

    "No deal cannot BOTH be perfectly manageable (for U.K. audiences) and yet so terrible that the threat of it will force the EU to cave in."

    Of course, it's far more likely that it will be terrible for the UK but manageable for the rest of the EU.

    Not true.

    No deal can be a problem but one we are prepared to live with to gain the benefits of freedom and the ability to set our own laws, customs and have our own courts interpret them.

    On the other hand the EU and Ireland especially gain no benefits from no deal. They suffer the consequences but only we reap the rewards.

    The fact that you still fail to recognise there are any rewards to Brexit is why you are struggling with this misapprehension.
    They maintain the integrity of the EU. It's not all about the money, honey.
    Surely the integrity of the EU is, ultimately, also about money.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 11,651
    Pulpstar said:

    Noo said:

    Manchester Originals based at Old Trafford, Manchester
    Northern Superchargers based at Headingley, Leeds
    Birmingham Phoenix based at Edgbaston, Birmingham
    Trent Rockets based at Trent Bridge, Nottingham
    Welsh Fire based at Sophia Gardens, Cardiff
    London Spirit based at Lord's, London
    Oval Invincibles based at The Oval, London
    Southern Brave based at Ageas Bowl, Southampton

    These sound like Quiddich teams.

    Birmingham Phoenix ?!

    I'm not a fan of the rebranding of Warwickshire to Birmingham but the "Birmingham Bears" is clearly the brand to go with.
    Already owned by the county.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 3,903

    GIN1138 said:

    Labour's Frit !

    I think you are just being hopeful that Corbyn is daft enough to do want you want.

    You may get your wish ;)
    They may.
    However that is what they want .
    As I said yesterday Corbyn and Labour's position was not clear on GE.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 15,733
    edited September 3

    GIN1138 said:

    What other excuses will Labour MPs come up with not to face the electorate then?
    Would such a bill get past the Lords?
    I think the general conclussion on here at 1am this morning was that the Lords wouldn't want to be seen blocking a general election that's been agreed by the Commons.

    But who knows?
  • Dura_Ace said:



    On the other hand the EU and Ireland especially gain no benefits from no deal. They suffer the consequences but only we reap the rewards.

    They gain by making it even less likely than another country is going to come up with an analogous neologism to 'Brexit' and try to leave the EU. That is a stellar benefit as it reinforces both the permanence and direction of The Project. The fact that you fail to grasp the significance of this is why you're wrong about everything.
    You think that's what the Irish are trying to gain? You think the Irish will be delighted to see no deal but at least The Project is secure?
    Yes.

    What the Irish and the other EU27 believe is that the UK cannot sustain a No Deal for any sustained period of time. They may be wrong, but that is their belief. On that basis a No Deal is clearly better for them than a bad deal. The only way that the UK will sustain a No Deal is if: (1) everyone embraces their inner Dunkirk, like Phillip is convinced he will do; or (2) if it is not a big problem. If it is (1), then the EU may have to think again. If it is (2) it won't. Either way, we have to go through No Deal to find out. The EU will not budge beforehand.

  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 103

    Too clever by half. If you are the PM you make the call whether to ask for an early election. Brown trailed that he would then didn't. May said she wouldn't then she did. Boris said he wouldn't but is forcing his opponents to make him ask for one. But does that work ? It's like the Rugby playing class bully saying that the four computer code geeks ganged up on him and made him give up his lunch money. At best it shreds your own brand as strong and at worst no one believes you.

    And where does prorogation fit in all this. Why burn all that political capital, provoke counter mobilisation, involve the monarchy, look undemocratic if just one week later you are then disolving rather than prorouging ? I just don't see a coherent narrative.

    Presumably it's been to demonstrate that he has gone to every length to sort Brexit, only to be blocked at every turn by a recalcitrant and unbiddable parliament. So I think it is a coherent narrative. Whether people buy it is another matter but I don't really see what other approach was avialable to Boris and Cummings in the circumstances they have found themselves in.

    So far as optics are concerned the upside is that they appear dynamic, have a plan, and are promising closure. Which doesn't guarantee success but gives them a fighting chance, at least.
  • eristdoof said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Usman Khawaja has been left out of Australia's 12-man squad for this week's fourth Ashes Test against England at Old Trafford as paceman Mitchell Starc is recalled.

    Yes, but who are they going to drop form the twelve to play Starc ?
    They've limited their options by not picking Mitchell Marsh.
    Pat Cummins, Peter Siddle, Mitchell Starc, Nathan Lyon, Josh Hazlewood are the bowlers in the 12. I would guess Siddle doesn't get picked.
    They'll be hoping England don't bat for long in that case. Siddle can bowl the long reliable stints.
    Well unless Stokes and Leach get in again, not much worry about that. Apparently Denly is going to open and Roy come in at 4, and so Root still in at 3 rather than playing our best batsman in his best position....
    It's as if the Selectors think they can hide the known batting weaknesses by shuffling the order. If they are going to do that, why not be truly radical? I suggest opening with Leach and Archer in the hope they can take a bit of shine off the ball before the proper batsmen come in.
    Archer showed little sign of patience while batting, and last Sunday Leach was facing bowlers who had been "on the field" for 24 hours. It is a totally different kettle of fish to take the shine off the new ball at 11:02 on the first morning.

    Leaving Stokes or Bairstow stranded at the end of the innings is a much higer price to pay for this strategy.
    Was meant to be a joke, Eris. My opinion of the England Selectors is almost as low as of the Government.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 15,733

    Maybe Dominic Cummings is Nick Timothy in disguise? An over hyped nonentity who thinks he is much cleverer than he actually is, and is much less clever than his gullible boss thinks he is.

    Well he certainly ran rings around REMAIN in 2016. ;)
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 3,903
    GIN1138 said:

    What other excuses will Labour MPs come up with not to face the electorate then?
    That they would get beat by Johnson before 311019.
This discussion has been closed.