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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Boris Johnson loses his first Parliamentary vote, no wonder he

SystemSystem Posts: 6,666
edited September 3 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Boris Johnson loses his first Parliamentary vote, no wonder he wants to prorogue Parliament

Boris Johnson says that if MPs vote for an extension tomorrow an election will be the only way to resolve things and that he’s tabling an election motion under the FTPA

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 9,650
    first.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 1,647
    Election now.
  • Great result.

    Now we know who to get rid of, now the public can make a clear choice.

    Hopefully May was in the rebels. Either way it shows how contemptuously pathetic this "wing" of the party was. Only about 20 MPs. Had it not been for the 2017 election they may not have mattered.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,292
    edited September 3
    Boris is so lacking in basic communication skills.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 11,392
    Do we have the (former) Con Rebels yet?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 14,566
    edited September 3
    “In hindsight Boris Johnson should have been more careful with his how deals with his Cummings.”

    Eh ?

    Was that a premature pun ?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 47,074
    Boris has reached the TMay 'cannot even resign/fail properly' stage rather quickly, given potential difficulty getting an election.
  • Times trailing a Scotland only GE intention poll in tomorrow's paper.

    Activate Prof. Sir John Curtice.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 879

    Great result.

    Now we know who to get rid of, now the public can make a clear choice.

    Hopefully May was in the rebels. Either way it shows how contemptuously pathetic this "wing" of the party was. Only about 20 MPs. Had it not been for the 2017 election they may not have mattered.

    That’s the spirit. Keep your chin up.
  • NooNoo Posts: 788
    First like Boris
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 4,489
    Boris is a complete laughing stock. Nice one Dom.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 19,795
    edited September 3
    Did anyone see the cyclist behind the BBC Scotland correspondent?!
  • Nigelb said:

    “In hindsight Boris Johnson should have been more careful with his how deals with his Cummings.”

    Eh ?

    Was that a premature pun ?

    Say it out loud.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 61,387
    edited September 3
    This is excellent tactics by Boris, tonight in prime time on BBC1 and ITV and the news channels all the coverage was of Boris promising to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal and of Corbyn committing to try and ban No Deal Brexit and extend again, costing him potentially millions of Labour Leave voters in the process whether to the Tories or the Brexit Party

  • Henry Zeffman @hzeffman
    now
    21 TORY REBELS

    Bebb
    Benyon
    Brine
    Burt
    Clark
    Clarke
    Gauke
    Greening
    Grieve
    Gyimah
    Hammond P
    Hammond S
    Harrington
    James
    Letwin
    Milton
    Nokes
    Sandbach
    Soames
    Stewart
    Vaizey

    2 LABOUR REBELS

    Hoey
    Mann
  • Hubris leads to Nemesis.
  • FPT

    Corbyn bang on point.

    Fair play.

    Exactly the right response. For once.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 26,780
    edited September 3
    So not close after all. Maybe 12 Tories voting against the government? But we have a resolution under the FTPA which the opposition are not going to vote for. This farce stopped being funny longer ago than Monty Python.

    Edit 21. Blimey. Completely ungovernable.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 4,213
    image
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 4,489
    @HYUFD Predictions (Updated 03/09/2019)

    Battersea CON gain
    Warwick and Leamington Spa CON gain
    Jarrow BXP gain
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 47,074


    Henry Zeffman @hzeffman
    now
    21 TORY REBELS

    Bebb
    Benyon
    Brine
    Burt
    Clark
    Clarke
    Gauke
    Greening
    Grieve
    Gyimah
    Hammond P
    Hammond S
    Harrington
    James
    Letwin
    Milton
    Nokes
    Sandbach
    Soames
    Stewart
    Vaizey

    2 LABOUR REBELS

    Hoey
    Mann

    Clarke 49 years a Tory MP, now no more.
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 119
    Leadsom on the news channel stating that the MPs who rebelled should "reflect overnight".
  • Well who'd have guessed it?! Another TSE article telling us all that Johnson is a Bozo and a loser. What a surprise Meanwhile con maj odds at the next GE continue to shorten....

    Into the echo chamber....
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 15,733
    Parliament Vs The People

    The script is written... All Boris has to do is play his role as defender of the people and he'll be home and dry.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 4,489
    Leadsom indicates the Tory MPs wont actually have the whip withdrawn yet. Lol.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 47,074
    GIN1138 said:

    Parliament Vs The People

    The script is written... All Boris has to do is play his role as defender of the people and he'll be home and dry.

    If Farage trusts him enough to stand down.
  • HYUFD said:

    This is excellent tactics by Boris, tonight in prime time on BBC1 and ITV and the news channels all the coverage was of Boris promising to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal and of Corbyn committing to try and ban No Deal Brexit and extend again, costing him potentially millions of Labour Leave voters in the process whether to the Tories or the Brexit Party

    You can say he's right or you can say he's wrong. You can't possibly credibly say it's tactics. He wanted to win, and he lost badly.
  • Boris is so lacking in basic communication skills.

    Yes, the surprising thing is that he’s a really poor orator. The bumbling is genuine, and it just doesn’t work. Useless.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 9,171
    HYUFD said:

    This is excellent tactics by Boris, tonight in prime time on BBC1 and ITV and the news channels all the coverage was of Boris promising to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal and of Corbyn committing to try and ban No Deal Brexit and extend again, costing him potentially millions of Labour Leave voters in the process whether to the Tories or the Brexit Party

    Jesus wept.

    Bozo and Cumstain are a pair of laughing stocks tonight.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 19,795
    HYUFD said:

    This is excellent tactics by Boris, tonight in prime time on BBC1 and ITV and the news channels all the coverage was of Boris promising to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal and of Corbyn committing to try and ban No Deal Brexit and extend again, costing him potentially millions of Labour Leave voters in the process whether to the Tories or the Brexit Party

    Nah all anyone hears is that parliament and democracy have taken back control.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 26,640
    Can we please have an election so that we have resolution one way or another.

  • Henry Zeffman @hzeffman
    now
    21 TORY REBELS

    Bebb
    Benyon
    Brine
    Burt
    Clark
    Clarke
    Gauke
    Greening
    Grieve
    Gyimah
    Hammond P
    Hammond S
    Harrington
    James
    Letwin
    Milton
    Nokes
    Sandbach
    Soames
    Stewart
    Vaizey

    2 LABOUR REBELS

    Hoey
    Mann

    7 fewer Tories lost tonight than May's election.

    So long!
  • Leadsome just suggested rebels will NOT lose the whip.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 10,549

    Boris is so lacking in basic communication skills.

    Mr Blobby in a Worzel Gummidge wig.
  • Will enjoy them expelling the Grandson of Sir Winson Churchill, having voted 3 times to leave the EU as some kind of Remoaner Trot
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 15,733
    edited September 3
    HYUFD said:

    This is excellent tactics by Boris, tonight in prime time on BBC1 and ITV and the news channels all the coverage was of Boris promising to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal and of Corbyn committing to try and ban No Deal Brexit and extend again, costing him potentially millions of Labour Leave voters in the process whether to the Tories or the Brexit Party

    Yes and Corbyn being very wishy washy on an election after spending two years demanding one looks absolutely dreadful...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 4,489

    Leadsome just suggested rebels will NOT lose the whip.

    Cummings playing 4D chess alright.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 1,952
    How long can Corbyn credibly resist the offer of a cleansing election? Not long. Mere days, I suggest.

  • Leadsom indicates the Tory MPs wont actually have the whip withdrawn yet. Lol.

    Pathetic if true, utterly pathetic.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 9,778
    edited September 3

    Boris is so lacking in basic communication skills.

    Edit: Damn - your edit made a nonsense of my response! (Not hard, I admit)
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 1,510
    edited September 3

    HYUFD said:

    This is excellent tactics by Boris, tonight in prime time on BBC1 and ITV and the news channels all the coverage was of Boris promising to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal and of Corbyn committing to try and ban No Deal Brexit and extend again, costing him potentially millions of Labour Leave voters in the process whether to the Tories or the Brexit Party

    You can say he's right or you can say he's wrong. You can't possibly credibly say it's tactics. He wanted to win, and he lost badly.
    Nonsense, he must’ve known he would lose. This is a setup for the now inevitable election campaign. I won’t vote Tory in that election, but it is clear to see what the message will be and I think he’s unfortunately got a good chance of getting back in.
  • How long will a Corbyn minority govt last? Especially supported by con rebels?

    Every week i reckon adds 100,000 Con votes.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 47,074

    Well who'd have guessed it?! Another TSE article telling us all that Johnson is a Bozo and a loser. What a surprise Meanwhile con maj odds at the next GE continue to shorten....

    Into the echo chamber....

    You are in love with the echo chamber thing. Yes, they don't like Boris and don't think he'll win, so what? I don't like Boris and think he might win. HYUFD worships Boris and thinks he definitely will win. So what to any of it?
    RH1992 said:

    Leadsom on the news channel stating that the MPs who rebelled should "reflect overnight".

    On what? If they can time travel and not vote against the party in what was deemed a vote of confidence?
  • Leadsom indicates the Tory MPs wont actually have the whip withdrawn yet. Lol.

    Beat me to it! Yes, that's the way I heard it.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 4,213
    So the government will now have a majority of -40?

    Is that right, or will they think better of expelling the rebels?

    Surely the most disastrous start to a premiership in British history?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 879
    HYUFD said:

    This is excellent tactics by Boris, tonight in prime time on BBC1 and ITV and the news channels all the coverage was of Boris promising to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal and of Corbyn committing to try and ban No Deal Brexit and extend again, costing him potentially millions of Labour Leave voters in the process whether to the Tories or the Brexit Party

    So he set out to lose tonight?
  • rcs1000 said:

    Can we please have an election so that we have resolution one way or another.

    Why does an election guarentee resolution ? 2017 made things worse.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 19,795
    DavidL said:

    So not close after all. Maybe 12 Tories voting against the government? But we have a resolution under the FTPA which the opposition are not going to vote for. This farce stopped being funny longer ago than Monty Python.

    Edit 21. Blimey. Completely ungovernable.

    If only anyone had had any thoughts on June 2016 that this might happen.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 4,751
    edited September 3

    Leadsom indicates the Tory MPs wont actually have the whip withdrawn yet. Lol.

    I didn't think they'd go through with it - that's a lot of dinner parties in the decades to come that Boris wouldn't have been invited to.
  • HYUFD said:

    This is excellent tactics by Boris, tonight in prime time on BBC1 and ITV and the news channels all the coverage was of Boris promising to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal and of Corbyn committing to try and ban No Deal Brexit and extend again, costing him potentially millions of Labour Leave voters in the process whether to the Tories or the Brexit Party

    You can say he's right or you can say he's wrong. You can't possibly credibly say it's tactics. He wanted to win, and he lost badly.
    Nonsense, he must’ve known he would lose. This is a setup for the now inevitable election campaign. I won’t vote Tory in that election, but it is clear to see what the message will be and I think he’s unfortunately got a good chance of getting back in.
    There are plenty of people on this site who dont seem to understand the game...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 14,566

    Leadsom indicates the Tory MPs wont actually have the whip withdrawn yet. Lol.

    Beat me to it! Yes, that's the way I heard it.
    Well there’s always tomorrow’s vote...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 54,335
    edited September 3
    Bebb, Benyon, Brine, Burt, Clark, Clarke, Gauke, Greening, Grieve, Gyimah, Hammond, Hammond, Harrington, James, Lee, Letwin, Milton, Nokes, Sandbach, Soames, Stewart, Vaizey are the 22 rebels.

    Kate Hoey & John Mann 2 rebels on the Labour side.

    Austin, Lewis & Elphicke joined the Gov't as independents
    Allen, Berger, Boles, Field, Hermon!, Lloyd, Shuker, Smith joined the opposition as independents.

    Gov't majority is now -45 I assume if all 22 will lose the whip
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 9,171
    Loathsome repeating the U-turn on Sky.

    The rebels have a second chance tomorrow.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 47,074

    Leadsom indicates the Tory MPs wont actually have the whip withdrawn yet. Lol.

    Pathetic if true, utterly pathetic.
    Puts Corbyn not firing shadow cabinet members who did not vote with the whip into perspective. You cannot lay down a marker like they did and not act on it, surely? This has to be a bad report?
  • isamisam Posts: 27,683

    Nigelb said:

    “In hindsight Boris Johnson should have been more careful with his how deals with his Cummings.”

    Eh ?

    Was that a premature pun ?

    Say it out loud.
    It doesn’t seem to make any sense at all

    ”In hindsight Boris Johnson should have been more careful with his how deals with his Cummings.”

    What am I missing?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 9,778
    Noo said:

    First like Boris

    :lol:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 61,387
    edited September 3
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    This is excellent tactics by Boris, tonight in prime time on BBC1 and ITV and the news channels all the coverage was of Boris promising to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal and of Corbyn committing to try and ban No Deal Brexit and extend again, costing him potentially millions of Labour Leave voters in the process whether to the Tories or the Brexit Party

    So he set out to lose tonight?
    He lost the battle to win the war, this was exactly the image Cummings wanted, MPs voting to enable the blocking of Brexit against the wishes of the PM
  • HYUFD said:

    This is excellent tactics by Boris, tonight in prime time on BBC1 and ITV and the news channels all the coverage was of Boris promising to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal and of Corbyn committing to try and ban No Deal Brexit and extend again, costing him potentially millions of Labour Leave voters in the process whether to the Tories or the Brexit Party

    Jesus wept.

    Bozo and Cumstain are a pair of laughing stocks tonight.
    You really are numpties arent you?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 19,795
    rcs1000 said:

    Can we please have an election so that we have resolution one way or another.

    A GE atm would see us right back to where we started ie stalemate.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 4,213

    Leadsome just suggested rebels will NOT lose the whip.

    Hilarious.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 879
    Boris is a surprisingly poor at the despatch box. Not sure it matters much these days but he doesn’t sound particularly confident.
  • Will enjoy them expelling the Grandson of Sir Winson Churchill, having voted 3 times to leave the EU as some kind of Remoaner Trot

    Doesn't matter who his father was, Soames has made his bed.

    Soames is a Remoaner, plus he voted to extend Article 50 in March: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/mar/12/how-did-your-mp-vote-in-the-march-brexit-votes
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 47,074
    rcs1000 said:

    Can we please have an election so that we have resolution one way or another.

    An election does not guarantee that. But it has a chance at least.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 26,780
    rcs1000 said:

    Can we please have an election so that we have resolution one way or another.

    Yes. These childish games are tiresome.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 4,489

    Loathsome repeating the U-turn on Sky.

    The rebels have a second chance tomorrow.

    :D :D :D
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 14,566
    rcs1000 said:

    Can we please have an election so that we have resolution one way or another.


    Probably.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 879


    Henry Zeffman @hzeffman
    now
    21 TORY REBELS

    Bebb
    Benyon
    Brine
    Burt
    Clark
    Clarke
    Gauke
    Greening
    Grieve
    Gyimah
    Hammond P
    Hammond S
    Harrington
    James
    Letwin
    Milton
    Nokes
    Sandbach
    Soames
    Stewart
    Vaizey

    2 LABOUR REBELS

    Hoey
    Mann

    7 fewer Tories lost tonight than May's election.

    So long!
    Apparently they are not losing the whip after all. Weird - I thought BJ was strictly a man of his word.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 24,677
    Rosebery:

    * undermined by his colleague, the Chancellor
    * former PMs criticised him
    * Stridently anti-Turkish policy
    * foreign policy objectives defeated by disagreements in his own party
    * Angered all the European powers

    I fail to see any parallels with today

    🤷‍♂️
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 61,387
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    This is excellent tactics by Boris, tonight in prime time on BBC1 and ITV and the news channels all the coverage was of Boris promising to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal and of Corbyn committing to try and ban No Deal Brexit and extend again, costing him potentially millions of Labour Leave voters in the process whether to the Tories or the Brexit Party

    Yes and Corbyn being very wishy washy on an election after spending two years demanding one looks absolutely dreadful...
    It does indeed, almost a Tory PPB tonight
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 10,549
    Byronic said:

    How long can Corbyn credibly resist the offer of a cleansing election? Not long. Mere days, I suggest.

    As long as A50 is extended or revoked first, bring it on.

    Bozo, Cummings and Lord Snooty have managed to make Jezza look like a statesman. Tough job, well done!
  • eekeek Posts: 5,520
    Chris said:

    Leadsome just suggested rebels will NOT lose the whip.

    Hilarious.
    So Boris and Cummings can't even follow through a direct threat,

    Beyond incompetent ...
  • HYUFD said:

    This is excellent tactics by Boris, tonight in prime time on BBC1 and ITV and the news channels all the coverage was of Boris promising to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal and of Corbyn committing to try and ban No Deal Brexit and extend again, costing him potentially millions of Labour Leave voters in the process whether to the Tories or the Brexit Party

    You can say he's right or you can say he's wrong. You can't possibly credibly say it's tactics. He wanted to win, and he lost badly.
    Rubbish. He has set up Corbyn as the anti-Brexiteer.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 879
    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    This is excellent tactics by Boris, tonight in prime time on BBC1 and ITV and the news channels all the coverage was of Boris promising to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal and of Corbyn committing to try and ban No Deal Brexit and extend again, costing him potentially millions of Labour Leave voters in the process whether to the Tories or the Brexit Party

    So he set out to lose tonight?
    He lost the battle to win the war, this was exactly the image Cummings wanted, MPs voting to enable the blocking of Brexit against the wishes of the PM
    Again, you’re saying he deliberately lost the vote tonight?
  • rcs1000 said:

    Can we please have an election so that we have resolution one way or another.

    Why does an election guarentee resolution ? 2017 made things worse.
    Boris just lost his majority...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 61,387
    edited September 3


    Theresa in the end was no traitor, unlike some of her colleagues
  • ChrisChris Posts: 4,213

    Loathsome repeating the U-turn on Sky.

    The rebels have a second chance tomorrow.

    Oh, you mean they're going back on what they threatened for tonight, and they're threatening it for tomorrow night instead?

    Priceless.
  • eek said:

    Chris said:

    Leadsome just suggested rebels will NOT lose the whip.

    Hilarious.
    So Boris and Cummings can't even follow through a direct threat,

    Beyond incompetent ...
    You just dont understand the game...
  • eekeek Posts: 5,520

    HYUFD said:

    This is excellent tactics by Boris, tonight in prime time on BBC1 and ITV and the news channels all the coverage was of Boris promising to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal and of Corbyn committing to try and ban No Deal Brexit and extend again, costing him potentially millions of Labour Leave voters in the process whether to the Tories or the Brexit Party

    You can say he's right or you can say he's wrong. You can't possibly credibly say it's tactics. He wanted to win, and he lost badly.
    Rubbish. He has set up Corbyn as the anti-Brexiteer.
    Has he - when Corbyn will sit there saying let the public confirm what we want to do.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 19,795
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Can we please have an election so that we have resolution one way or another.

    Yes. These childish games are tiresome.
    You and @rcs1000 bemoaning the sorry state this country is in.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 25,437
    Armando Iannucci will never work again if Boris proposes VoNC in himself and then whips to vote for it.
  • isamisam Posts: 27,683
    The public were told their decision was final in the EU referendum. THEIR decision, NOT politicians.

    They voted to leave.

    MPs have voted 4 times to prevent it
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 1,952
    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Can we please have an election so that we have resolution one way or another.

    A GE atm would see us right back to where we started ie stalemate.
    That’s far from certain. Boris might get a majority or Corbyn might be able to form a minority govt.

    Right now both those look better than the status quo. And besides, what is your suggestion for a way out of this swamp? We are all stuck in it, as Britons. We all have an interest in exiting.
  • TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Can we please have an election so that we have resolution one way or another.

    A GE atm would see us right back to where we started ie stalemate.
    Unlikely.

    If a GE returned the same number of MPs by party as last time it would be a Tory+DUP effective majority on a vote like tonight. Each party will be 'purer' next time.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 15,733
    edited September 3
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    This is excellent tactics by Boris, tonight in prime time on BBC1 and ITV and the news channels all the coverage was of Boris promising to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal and of Corbyn committing to try and ban No Deal Brexit and extend again, costing him potentially millions of Labour Leave voters in the process whether to the Tories or the Brexit Party

    So he set out to lose tonight?
    Yes he must have known this was coming from the moment he started talking about "do or die" on 31st October.

    This Parliament would never stand for that and he must have known it.
  • Leadsome just suggested rebels will NOT lose the whip.

    Cummings playing 4D chess alright.
    Playing with himself, more likely.

    This is ridiculous. How can anybody think this shower could govern?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 4,489

    eek said:

    Chris said:

    Leadsome just suggested rebels will NOT lose the whip.

    Hilarious.
    So Boris and Cummings can't even follow through a direct threat,

    Beyond incompetent ...
    You just dont understand the game...
    Calm down Dominic. Have another glass of wine.
  • DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    This is excellent tactics by Boris, tonight in prime time on BBC1 and ITV and the news channels all the coverage was of Boris promising to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal and of Corbyn committing to try and ban No Deal Brexit and extend again, costing him potentially millions of Labour Leave voters in the process whether to the Tories or the Brexit Party

    So he set out to lose tonight?
    He lost the battle to win the war, this was exactly the image Cummings wanted, MPs voting to enable the blocking of Brexit against the wishes of the PM
    Again, you’re saying he deliberately lost the vote tonight?
    He is saying it was framed in such a way that it didnt matter whether he lost or not.

    "Head i win, tails you lose". And STILL you people dont understand....
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 15,851
    edited September 3
    Fpt.
    Byronic said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:
    I was just thinking how much the photo in the header looks like a Victorian oil painting - Bercow especially.
    Yes, an incisive social justice point there, made by.... “Torcuil Crichton”
    Actually he's non posho Hebridean from my dad's part of Lewis, big Labour man from way back.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,496
    It isn't a characteristic of charismatic election winning leaders backed up by strategic geniuses to lose their first vote whilst splitting their party.
  • If KenClarke is removed as a Tory MP does that make him less of a threat to Corbyn as leader of an emergency government?
This discussion has been closed.