So not close after all. Maybe 12 Tories voting against the government? But we have a resolution under the FTPA which the opposition are not going to vote for. This farce stopped being funny longer ago than Monty Python.
Edit 21. Blimey. Completely ungovernable.
If only anyone had had any thoughts on June 2016 that this might happen.
I don’t think that I ever believed that the Euro fanatics would let this go easily. But they have slowly gathered some courage from somewhere and stopped snivelling. It’s taken 3 years but they have got there.
Kate Hoey & John Mann 2 rebels on the Labour side.
Austin, Lewis & Elphicke joined the Gov't as independents Allen, Berger, Boles, Field, Hermon!, Lloyd, Shuker, Smith joined the opposition as independents.
Gov't majority is now -45 I assume if all 22 will lose the whip
Like I predicted, Labour rebels <5, not including Skinner. Good to see Berger, Field, Hermon and Shuker among the Yes votes. Personally, I'd be very pleased to see Berger and Shuker rejoin Labour. Field, I think, is one of nature's natural independents - I'd be surprised if he joined anyone again.
Can we please have an election so that we have resolution one way or another.
Yes. These childish games are tiresome.
You and @rcs1000 bemoaning the sorry state this country is in.
Robert joining me in condemning the labour MPs elected to respect the referendum result then voting against every way of leaving was tonight’s personal high point. The predictable lack of condemnation of his view was beautiful.
The public were told their decision was final in the EU referendum. THEIR decision, NOT politicians.
They voted to leave.
MPs have voted 4 times to prevent it
I don't follow your point. The public being told things doesn't change the law, and we will no doubt very shortly get the opportunity for the public to express their outrage. They might well do so.
This is excellent tactics by Boris, tonight in prime time on BBC1 and ITV and the news channels all the coverage was of Boris promising to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal and of Corbyn committing to try and ban No Deal Brexit and extend again, costing him potentially millions of Labour Leave voters in the process whether to the Tories or the Brexit Party
Yes and Corbyn being very wishy washy on an election after spending two years demanding one looks absolutely dreadful...
It does indeed, almost a Tory PPB tonight
Voters will look at Corbyn now and see a slimey, politico back-slider.
How long can Corbyn credibly resist the offer of a cleansing election? Not long. Mere days, I suggest.
As long as A50 is extended or revoked first, bring it on.
Bozo, Cummings and Lord Snooty have managed to make Jezza look like a statesman. Tough job, well done!
They have actually made Jezza look far from the voice of the people a la 2017 but now the voice of the establishment defying the will of the people. He will never recover from tonight in Leave areas in the North and Midlands
Bebb Benyon Brine Burt Clark Clarke Gauke Greening Grieve Gyimah Hammond P Hammond S Harrington James Letwin Milton Nokes Sandbach Soames Stewart Vaizey
2 LABOUR REBELS
Hoey Mann
7 fewer Tories lost tonight than May's election.
So long!
Apparently they are not losing the whip after all. Weird - I thought BJ was strictly a man of his word.
When danger reared its ugly head, Sir Boris bravely turned his tail and fled:
Can we please have an election so that we have resolution one way or another.
A GE atm would see us right back to where we started ie stalemate.
Unlikely.
If a GE returned the same number of MPs by party as last time it would be a Tory+DUP effective majority on a vote like tonight. Each party will be 'purer' next time.
I think the BXP and the LDs will cancel themselves out. Plus Nigel has a narrative: don't trust the Tories to deliver Brexit.
This is excellent tactics by Boris, tonight in prime time on BBC1 and ITV and the news channels all the coverage was of Boris promising to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal and of Corbyn committing to try and ban No Deal Brexit and extend again, costing him potentially millions of Labour Leave voters in the process whether to the Tories or the Brexit Party
So he set out to lose tonight?
He lost the battle to win the war, this was exactly the image Cummings wanted, MPs voting to enable the blocking of Brexit against the wishes of the PM
Again, you’re saying he deliberately lost the vote tonight?
He is saying it was framed in such a way that it didnt matter whether he lost or not.
"Head i win, tails you lose". And STILL you people dont understand....
Several people on multiple occasions over recent weeks have suggested Boris wanted parliament to stop him so he could have a parliament vs the people election, that if they could not stop him he gets no deal and if they stop him he gets an election he can win, so stick your arrogant sanctimony about how 'you people' do not understand where it belongs. Some just disagree.
The public were told their decision was final in the EU referendum. THEIR decision, NOT politicians.
They voted to leave.
MPs have voted 4 times to prevent it
I don't follow your point. The public being told things doesn't change the law, and we will no doubt very shortly get the opportunity for the public to express their outrage. They might well do so.
A basic lack of understanding. "Parliamentary Sovereignty" is something so often championed by people who have no idea what it is.
A GE atm would see us right back to where we started ie stalemate.
I'm not convinced. I have a feeling the country will swing very decisively one way or another... Either to end this constant debate by giving Boris a majority to implement Brexit... Or by giving Corbyn a mjaority to stop Brexit.
Can we please have an election so that we have resolution one way or another.
A GE atm would see us right back to where we started ie stalemate.
Most likely not. The parties this time around would be elected under such terms that one has to consider it likely that a majority either to prosecute Brexit or to wriggle out of it would emerge.
You'd like to think that he might be reflecting that that champagne party after he and his fellow morons voted against Brexit was just maybe a mistake. But he’s too arrogant.
Well who'd have guessed it?! Another TSE article telling us all that Johnson is a Bozo and a loser. What a surprise Meanwhile con maj odds at the next GE continue to shorten....
Into the echo chamber....
As 2015 and 2017 have shown the betting markets known fuck all about British GEs or do you live in the reality where Ed Miliband won most seats in 2015 and May got a large majority in 2017?
This is excellent tactics by Boris, tonight in prime time on BBC1 and ITV and the news channels all the coverage was of Boris promising to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal and of Corbyn committing to try and ban No Deal Brexit and extend again, costing him potentially millions of Labour Leave voters in the process whether to the Tories or the Brexit Party
So he set out to lose tonight?
He lost the battle to win the war, this was exactly the image Cummings wanted, MPs voting to enable the blocking of Brexit against the wishes of the PM
Again, you’re saying he deliberately lost the vote tonight?
He is saying it was framed in such a way that it didnt matter whether he lost or not.
"Head i win, tails you lose". And STILL you people dont understand....
Several people on multiple occasions over recent weeks have suggested Boris wanted parliament to stop him so he could have a parliament vs the people election, that if they could not stop him he gets no deal and if they stop him he gets an election he can win, so stick your arrogant sanctimony about how 'you people' do not understand where it belongs. Some just disagree.
Bebb Benyon Brine Burt Clark Clarke Gauke Greening Grieve Gyimah Hammond P Hammond S Harrington James Letwin Milton Nokes Sandbach Soames Stewart Vaizey
2 LABOUR REBELS
Hoey Mann
7 fewer Tories lost tonight than May's election.
So long!
What's the size of the pure core that you are aiming for?
This is excellent tactics by Boris, tonight in prime time on BBC1 and ITV and the news channels all the coverage was of Boris promising to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal and of Corbyn committing to try and ban No Deal Brexit and extend again, costing him potentially millions of Labour Leave voters in the process whether to the Tories or the Brexit Party
If that is true, and I’m not saying it isn’t, is it important to now secure that election soonest to cash in on the moment? How long does such a moment last until it’s replaced by another moment, such as the moment Boris will find himself in next month if there isn’t a GE?
The Commons voting confidence in a government they have defeated on their main policy is a joke. The FTPA truly was constitutional vandalism. It should be scrapped ASAP..
I think Boris is getting a sharp lesson tonight in not having it all his own way.
His disdain for people whose votes he needs has resulted in a worse-than-inevitable defeat in the HoC, which may be a useful take-out for him ahead of a general election campaign. He’ll probably have most of the (sizeable) Farage crowd eating from his hand, but a lot of moderate, business-minded people will not feel obliged to meet him halfway.
Meanwhile, the HoC looks like treating him in much the way a cat does a captive mouse. Not willing to kill him off because it gets more utility from a still-wriggling near-corpse.
Can we please have an election so that we have resolution one way or another.
A GE atm would see us right back to where we started ie stalemate.
Most likely not. The parties this time around would be elected under such terms that one has to consider it likely that a majority either to prosecute Brexit or to wriggle out of it would emerge.
Jezza still gets to befuddle. Vote for us for a Labour deal.
Can we please have an election so that we have resolution one way or another.
Yes. These childish games are tiresome.
You and @rcs1000 bemoaning the sorry state this country is in.
The country is fine. It’s suffering moderate damage because our political class cannot make a decision but it will survive. Needs a better political class though.
How long can Corbyn credibly resist the offer of a cleansing election? Not long. Mere days, I suggest.
As long as A50 is extended or revoked first, bring it on.
Bozo, Cummings and Lord Snooty have managed to make Jezza look like a statesman. Tough job, well done!
They have actually made Jezza look far from the voice of the people a la 2017 but now the voice of the establishment defying the will of the people. He will never recover from tonight in Leave areas in the North and Midlands
Quite.
Corbyn has no chance of getting close to a majority now. Odds on a Con maj have shortened over the last 24 hours.
I think we could be looking at a Lab wipeout. Losing seats in the NW and Midlands to the Cons, and in the scotland , the south, university towns and the west to the LDs.
It isn't a characteristic of charismatic election winning leaders backed up by strategic geniuses to lose their first vote whilst splitting their party.
I've been having fun all day. I just got back in. It appears something has happened of great import. I would ask you to describe it but I suspect by the time you finished writing it will have changed again. I shall just assume its a massive clusterfuck and go on from there...
Bebb Benyon Brine Burt Clark Clarke Gauke Greening Grieve Gyimah Hammond P Hammond S Harrington James Letwin Milton Nokes Sandbach Soames Stewart Vaizey
2 LABOUR REBELS
Hoey Mann
7 fewer Tories lost tonight than May's election.
So long!
What's the size of the pure core that you are aiming for?
325+ willing to vote with the whip on confidence matters.
I think the goal of the Johnson/Cummings administration has been to provoke a 'people vs the politicians' election and from that point of view perhaps today is indeed a case of a lost battle but a step towards winning the war, as others suggest. However, if parliament manages to hold off demands for an election until a delay is forced on the government, then it gets hard to see BXP staying out of the election, and with Remainers emboldened the strategy of uniting the right and splitting the left looks in jeopardy. Even more so with the Tory party starting to fracture.
My sense is the next step in this game is the government advising HMQ not to give assent to the delay bill, which will be when the constitutional shit really hits the fan.
I think Boris is getting a sharp lesson tonight in not having it all his own way.
His disdain for people whose votes he needs has resulted in a worse-than-inevitable defeat in the HoC, which may be a useful take-out for him ahead of a general election campaign. He’ll probably have most of the (sizeable) Farage crowd eating from his hand, but a lot of moderate, business-minded people will not feel obliged to meet him halfway.
Meanwhile, the HoC looks like treating him in much the way a cat does a captive mouse. Not willing to kill him off because it gets more utility from a still-wriggling near-corpse.
Again this must have been entirely expected from the moment he started talking about "do or die" on 31st October. Sooner or later it was going to come to the crunch when this Parliament would vote to take no deal of the table.
If he'd wanted to compromise he could have done. This is entirely what was expected to happen and its now Parliament Vs The Poeple and Parliament has written his script for him.
How long can Corbyn credibly resist the offer of a cleansing election? Not long. Mere days, I suggest.
As long as A50 is extended or revoked first, bring it on.
Bozo, Cummings and Lord Snooty have managed to make Jezza look like a statesman. Tough job, well done!
They have actually made Jezza look far from the voice of the people a la 2017 but now the voice of the establishment defying the will of the people. He will never recover from tonight in Leave areas in the North and Midlands
Quite.
Corbyn has no chance of getting close to a majority now. Odds on a Con maj have shortened over the last 24 hours.
I think we could be looking at a Lab wipeout. Losing seats in the NW and Midlands to the Cons, and in the scotland , the south, university towns and the west to the LDs.
Comments
In your crazy world.
Boris should do the following
Suspend the suspensions
Accept the no deal bill and obtain RA
Stand at the dispatch box and confirm that the election will take place on the 15th October
Seek the HOC consent for the GE
Oh - and sack Cummings
https://twitter.com/annaturley/status/1168980398166237185?s=21
https://youtu.be/BZwuTo7zKM8
Absolutely first class bottling by Bottler Billy Bunter, Mug Punter.
I'm not convinced. I have a feeling the country will swing very decisively one way or another... Either to end this constant debate by giving Boris a majority to implement Brexit... Or by giving Corbyn a mjaority to stop Brexit.
And spot on.....
https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1168999591049662464?s=20
What would Tony Bean have said about that...
Our current govt might want to reflect on that.
It is tactics. Do you really not understand that?!
Only way to do it.
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1168906137506385926?s=09
His disdain for people whose votes he needs has resulted in a worse-than-inevitable defeat in the HoC, which may be a useful take-out for him ahead of a general election campaign. He’ll probably have most of the (sizeable) Farage crowd eating from his hand, but a lot of moderate, business-minded people will not feel obliged to meet him halfway.
Meanwhile, the HoC looks like treating him in much the way a cat does a captive mouse. Not willing to kill him off because it gets more utility from a still-wriggling near-corpse.
https://twitter.com/rosshardyyork/status/1168998356397494276
Boris on a bike.
The country is fine. It’s suffering moderate damage because our political class cannot make a decision but it will survive. Needs a better political class though.
Permanently.
Corbyn has no chance of getting close to a majority now. Odds on a Con maj have shortened over the last 24 hours.
I think we could be looking at a Lab wipeout. Losing seats in the NW and Midlands to the Cons, and in the scotland , the south, university towns and the west to the LDs.
https://twitter.com/annaturley/status/1168980398166237185?s=20
That's worse than May.
My sense is the next step in this game is the government advising HMQ not to give assent to the delay bill, which will be when the constitutional shit really hits the fan.
If he'd wanted to compromise he could have done. This is entirely what was expected to happen and its now Parliament Vs The Poeple and Parliament has written his script for him.