I hated Brown's expedient diversion into nationalism...it was shocking. I fucking hate nationalism in all it's forms. It leads to division, sectarianism, hatred and racism....
I cannot even stand the chant of the English supporters about the Ozzies...always cheating...I turn the volume down, and I love cricket. It's horrible. And there has been something majestic and noble to see Smith confronting the chants, and the boos to show a display of tenacity and skill in batting that I have never seen before....
I'm curious as to when all that started - it certainly wasn't around 20 years.
For that matter the only place where I have heard Australians ever described as 'convicts' is on PB.
You and Tyson need to untwist your knickers and head for Melbourn next Boxing Day Ashes test to see what the Ozzie’s shout at the POMs...
It’s fine - you feel guilt for being a rich Western white dude born into wealth and privilege.
But no need to be a downer on those having a bit of fun and a few beers at the cricket.
It was really funny when the crowd all waved sand paper at Warner and Bancroft when they got out..the chanting is bad enough, but booing someone who is perhaps displaying the best show of batting I have certainly seen is shocking.
That said, I've got a feeling we can dig in tomorrow...and take it to the last test
I have to say Theresa May has also been the root of a LOT of this division.
I suspect if Boris and Gove had gone into government in 2016 or Cameron had stuck to the job as PM we may well have got away with EEA - I think at the outset a lot of Leavers would have accepted that or something similar.
But the more strident got May got up to June 2017 the more strident leavers AND remainers got in response.
If May had never become PM I suspect we'd have had a much smoother exit without a lot of the division. Maybe.
Leavers would not have accepted EEA as it requires free movement and would have betrayed one of the key planks of the Leave campaign, which is why Boris is correct to replace free movement with a points system.
In 10 years time once EU immigration is under control it may be an option but now
I'd answer don't know on Cummings. I deeply dislike his strategy, and reports of his behaviour suggest he is a big man child who likes to 'shock' people as some kind of silly power play, but whether his advice is good or not I could not say at this stage and at the end of the day his job is to win the day for Boris, and it is far from clear he is doing a bad job at that which he should be fired for.
I'm sorry that kind of reasonableness isn't acceptable in Brexit Britain.
I hated Brown's expedient diversion into nationalism...it was shocking. I fucking hate nationalism in all it's forms. It leads to division, sectarianism, hatred and racism....
I cannot even stand the chant of the English supporters about the Ozzies...always cheating...I turn the volume down, and I love cricket. It's horrible. And there has been something majestic and noble to see Smith confronting the chants, and the boos to show a display of tenacity and skill in batting that I have never seen before....
I'm curious as to when all that started - it certainly wasn't around 20 years.
For that matter the only place where I have heard Australians ever described as 'convicts' is on PB.
I respectfully and completely disagree. Sledging and banter and mockery have been an intrinsic part of the sport for as long as I remember.
20 years ago I lived in Australia doing my final year of my A Level equivalent and I absolutely remember it being exactly like that. I took a lot of stick for being a Pommie Bastard and gave it back to the Convicts. The 90s was not a good decade to be a Pommie cricket fan at school downunder lol.
The Barmy Army always came up with great mocking chants.
I went to an ODI at the MCG that from memory was not long after both Australia retaining the Ashes yet again as well as their failed republic referendum. My favourite chant that year was the Aussies chanting "we own the Ashes" and the English chanting in reply "we own your country"
I can see how the swapping of abuse makes the world a happier place.
Indeed, I have at least one Leave voting friend who has lost a Remain voting friend because of his Brexit vote.
Brexit has divided us far more than say voting for a different party in an election has sad to say
Which is very sad, where it happens.
Disputes over politics simply aren't worth that kind of nastiness.
It's put me right off referendums. Never Again.
Would you have been happy for Blair to take us into the Euro WITHOUT a referendum?
I don't think they are the worst thing in the world but should be used sparingly and not by government's advocating the status quo. Perhaps we ought to blame Harold Wilson who was the first to try this chicanery for party political purposes. Cameron tried to pull a similar trick forgetting that the older members of the electorate had seen this game before.
I think this is absolutely the key point. They should be used to reinforce Govt’s changing something/pursuing a policy where they are concerned that their mandate from a General Election isn’t sufficient. And that is the only time.
Also any referendum mandate arising will be extra strong because it will not be corrupted by people who have just voted on anti-Govt protest lines (it has been observed that a significant proportion of the original leave vote was probably motivated by anti-austerity - and unfortunately the weak Labour remain campaign did little to challenge this).
It is not that the Leave vote was motivated by anti-austerity but that many Leave voters wrongly ascribed their deprived status to EU membership when in fact a more likely cause was austerity.
This is why Boris wants an election before Brexit fails to improve Leave voters' lives, and will probably make them worse. In some cases, a lot worse.
Only anecdotal, but I know people (from the North) who voted Leave because the Govt/establishment (who they saw as pro-austerity) was for remain.
Am I going to have a by-election or will John Mann simply not appear on the Labour box at the next GE ? Least I don't have to remotely think about voting Labour now as I was half considering giving him a personal vote. My other half is glad he's left the party too.
I hated Brown's expedient diversion into nationalism...it was shocking. I fucking hate nationalism in all it's forms. It leads to division, sectarianism, hatred and racism....
I cannot even stand the chant of the English supporters about the Ozzies...always cheating...I turn the volume down, and I love cricket. It's horrible. And there has been something majestic and noble to see Smith confronting the chants, and the boos to show a display of tenacity and skill in batting that I have never seen before....
I'm curious as to when all that started - it certainly wasn't around 20 years.
For that matter the only place where I have heard Australians ever described as 'convicts' is on PB.
You and Tyson need to untwist your knickers and head for Melbourn next Boxing Day Ashes test to see what the Ozzie’s shout at the POMs...
It’s fine - you feel guilt for being a rich Western white dude born into wealth and privilege.
But no need to be a downer on those having a bit of fun and a few beers at the cricket.
It was really funny when the crowd all waved sand paper at Warner and Bancroft when they got out..the chanting is bad enough, but booing someone who is perhaps displaying the best show of batting I have certainly seen is shocking.
That said, I've got a feeling we can dig in tomorrow...and take it to the last test
I hated Brown's expedient diversion into nationalism...it was shocking. I fucking hate nationalism in all it's forms. It leads to division, sectarianism, hatred and racism....
I cannot even stand the chant of the English supporters about the Ozzies...always cheating...I turn the volume down, and I love cricket. It's horrible. And there has been something majestic and noble to see Smith confronting the chants, and the boos to show a display of tenacity and skill in batting that I have never seen before....
I'm curious as to when all that started - it certainly wasn't around 20 years.
For that matter the only place where I have heard Australians ever described as 'convicts' is on PB.
You and Tyson need to untwist your knickers and head for Melbourn next Boxing Day Ashes test to see what the Ozzie’s shout at the POMs...
It’s fine - you feel guilt for being a rich Western white dude born into wealth and privilege.
But no need to be a downer on those having a bit of fun and a few beers at the cricket.
It was really funny when the crowd all waved sand paper at Warner and Bancroft when they got out..the chanting is bad enough, but booing someone who is perhaps displaying the best show of batting I have certainly seen is shocking.
That said, I've got a feeling we can dig in tomorrow...and take it to the last test
We don't deserve to, other than THAT Stokes innings England have been outplayed and an Ashes victory would paper over serious longstanding deficiencies in the Test team (and its coach - fortunately leaving - and captain).
No point at all other than an update on the Commons composition
Can Fuck Boris govern with a majority of -45?
He doesn't want to govern right now, so that's not an issue. The issue is can anyone else govern - the only thing the Commons can agree on is asking for an extension, and even then only barely.
I'd answer don't know on Cummings. I deeply dislike his strategy, and reports of his behaviour suggest he is a big man child who likes to 'shock' people as some kind of silly power play, but whether his advice is good or not I could not say at this stage and at the end of the day his job is to win the day for Boris, and it is far from clear he is doing a bad job at that which he should be fired for.
I'm sorry that kind of reasonableness isn't acceptable in Brexit Britain.
It was a momentary lapse, I am sure, and will not be repeated
No point at all other than an update on the Commons composition
Can Fuck Boris govern with a majority of -45?
Probably not, which is why he will likely resign as PM within a month and become Leader of the Opposition on a hard Brexit ticket leaving another PM to extend
I hated Brown's expedient diversion into nationalism...it was shocking. I fucking hate nationalism in all it's forms. It leads to division, sectarianism, hatred and racism....
I cannot even stand the chant of the English supporters about the Ozzies...always cheating...I turn the volume down, and I love cricket. It's horrible. And there has been something majestic and noble to see Smith confronting the chants, and the boos to show a display of tenacity and skill in batting that I have never seen before....
I'm curious as to when all that started - it certainly wasn't around 20 years.
For that matter the only place where I have heard Australians ever described as 'convicts' is on PB.
You and Tyson need to untwist your knickers and head for Melbourn next Boxing Day Ashes test to see what the Ozzie’s shout at the POMs...
It’s fine - you feel guilt for being a rich Western white dude born into wealth and privilege.
But no need to be a downer on those having a bit of fun and a few beers at the cricket.
It was really funny when the crowd all waved sand paper at Warner and Bancroft when they got out..the chanting is bad enough, but booing someone who is perhaps displaying the best show of batting I have certainly seen is shocking.
That said, I've got a feeling we can dig in tomorrow...and take it to the last test
We don't deserve to, other than THAT Stokes innings England have been outplayed and an Ashes victory would paper over serious longstanding deficiencies in the Test team (and its coach - fortunately leaving - and captain).
All out an hour before tea.
Frankly the Aussies have not been fantastic either, without Smith and Labuschange, but better than England admittedly.
Those who oppose Cummings and expelling the rebels will almost all be Labour and LD voters and as Comres shows tonight if the Tories extend again that will let Labour into Downing Street through Tory defections to the Brexit Party so absolute commitment to Brexit Deal or No Deal from Tory MPs must be imposed
Opponents seem far more decisive and certain of their position than supporters though...
I hated Brown's expedient diversion into nationalism...it was shocking. I fucking hate nationalism in all it's forms. It leads to division, sectarianism, hatred and racism....
I cannot even stand the chant of the English supporters about the Ozzies...always cheating...I turn the volume down, and I love cricket. It's horrible. And there has been something majestic and noble to see Smith confronting the chants, and the boos to show a display of tenacity and skill in batting that I have never seen before....
I'm curious as to when all that started - it certainly wasn't around 20 years.
For that matter the only place where I have heard Australians ever described as 'convicts' is on PB.
You and Tyson need to untwist your knickers and head for Melbourn next Boxing Day Ashes test to see what the Ozzie’s shout at the POMs...
It’s fine - you feel guilt for being a rich Western white dude born into wealth and privilege.
But no need to be a downer on those having a bit of fun and a few beers at the cricket.
It was really funny when the crowd all waved sand paper at Warner and Bancroft when they got out..the chanting is bad enough, but booing someone who is perhaps displaying the best show of batting I have certainly seen is shocking.
That said, I've got a feeling we can dig in tomorrow...and take it to the last test
We don't deserve to, other than THAT Stokes innings England have been outplayed and an Ashes victory would paper over serious longstanding deficiencies in the Test team (and its coach - fortunately leaving - and captain).
All out an hour before tea.
Meh, I think they'll be all out before Lunch.
I think Root is a) a great guy, b) a great bastmen, and c) a crap captain. No idea who should replace him. If you forced me to pick someone Stokes I guess.
No point at all other than an update on the Commons composition
Can Fuck Boris govern with a majority of -45?
Probably not, which is why he will likely resign as PM within a month and become Leader of the Opposition on a hard Brexit ticket leaving another PM to extend
Earlier you seemed confident that we would not be extending.
I hated Brown's expedient diversion into nationalism...it was shocking. I fucking hate nationalism in all it's forms. It leads to division, sectarianism, hatred and racism....
I cannot even stand the chant of the English supporters about the Ozzies...always cheating...I turn the volume down, and I love cricket. It's horrible. And there has been something majestic and noble to see Smith confronting the chants, and the boos to show a display of tenacity and skill in batting that I have never seen before....
I'm curious as to when all that started - it certainly wasn't around 20 years.
For that matter the only place where I have heard Australians ever described as 'convicts' is on PB.
You and Tyson need to untwist your knickers and head for Melbourn next Boxing Day Ashes test to see what the Ozzie’s shout at the POMs...
It’s fine - you feel guilt for being a rich Western white dude born into wealth and privilege.
But no need to be a downer on those having a bit of fun and a few beers at the cricket.
It was really funny when the crowd all waved sand paper at Warner and Bancroft when they got out..the chanting is bad enough, but booing someone who is perhaps displaying the best show of batting I have certainly seen is shocking.
That said, I've got a feeling we can dig in tomorrow...and take it to the last test
I hated Brown's expedient diversion into nationalism...it was shocking. I fucking hate nationalism in all it's forms. It leads to division, sectarianism, hatred and racism....
I cannot even stand the chant of the English supporters about the Ozzies...always cheating...I turn the volume down, and I love cricket. It's horrible. And there has been something majestic and noble to see Smith confronting the chants, and the boos to show a display of tenacity and skill in batting that I have never seen before....
I'm curious as to when all that started - it certainly wasn't around 20 years.
For that matter the only place where I have heard Australians ever described as 'convicts' is on PB.
I respectfully and completely disagree. Sledging and banter and mockery have been an intrinsic part of the sport for as long as I remember.
20 years ago I lived in Australia doing my final year of my A Level equivalent and I absolutely remember it being exactly like that. I took a lot of stick for being a Pommie Bastard and gave it back to the Convicts. The 90s was not a good decade to be a Pommie cricket fan at school downunder lol.
The Barmy Army always came up with great mocking chants.
I went to an ODI at the MCG that from memory was not long after both Australia retaining the Ashes yet again as well as their failed republic referendum. My favourite chant that year was the Aussies chanting "we own the Ashes" and the English chanting in reply "we own your country"
Any England cricketer who toured Australia in the 70s and 80s will tell you it could get pretty vicious, the MCG in particular being a cauldron of intimidation and sledging. Most of it I'm sure harmless and in jest, but still, booing and the whatnot is not a new thing to Test cricket.
Those who oppose Cummings and expelling the rebels will almost all be Labour and LD voters and as Comres shows tonight if the Tories extend again that will let Labour into Downing Street through Tory defections to the Brexit Party so absolute commitment to Brexit Deal or No Deal from Tory MPs must be imposed
Opponents seem far more decisive and certain of their position than supporters though...
Opponents are split down the middle while Cummings is largely uniting Leavers behind the Tories
No point at all other than an update on the Commons composition
Can Fuck Boris govern with a majority of -45?
Probably not, which is why he will likely resign as PM within a month and become Leader of the Opposition on a hard Brexit ticket leaving another PM to extend
Earlier you seemed confident that we would not be extending.
Well I obviously still am as resigning as PM would leave another PM to do it with the Tories going into opposition
I hated Brown's expedient diversion into nationalism...it was shocking. I fucking hate nationalism in all it's forms. It leads to division, sectarianism, hatred and racism....
I cannot even stand the chant of the English supporters about the Ozzies...always cheating...I turn the volume down, and I love cricket. It's horrible. And there has been something majestic and noble to see Smith confronting the chants, and the boos to show a display of tenacity and skill in batting that I have never seen before....
I'm curious as to when all that started - it certainly wasn't around 20 years.
For that matter the only place where I have heard Australians ever described as 'convicts' is on PB.
I respectfully and completely disagree. Sledging and banter and mockery have been an intrinsic part of the sport for as long as I remember.
20 years ago I lived in Australia doing my final year of my A Level equivalent and I absolutely remember it being exactly like that. I took a lot of stick for being a Pommie Bastard and gave it back to the Convicts. The 90s was not a good decade to be a Pommie cricket fan at school downunder lol.
The Barmy Army always came up with great mocking chants.
I went to an ODI at the MCG that from memory was not long after both Australia retaining the Ashes yet again as well as their failed republic referendum. My favourite chant that year was the Aussies chanting "we own the Ashes" and the English chanting in reply "we own your country"
I can see how the swapping of abuse makes the world a happier place.
Sledging isn't abuse it's fun. It's all done in good humour and people enjoy it. It's part of the tradition and fun of the sport.
It's certainly not new.
If I met an Aussie friend during the Ashes I'd be quite happy be respectively mocking each other as POM or convict while having a beer with him.
Those who oppose Cummings and expelling the rebels will almost all be Labour and LD voters and as Comres shows tonight if the Tories extend again that will let Labour into Downing Street through Tory defections to the Brexit Party so absolute commitment to Brexit Deal or No Deal from Tory MPs must be imposed
Opponents seem far more decisive and certain of their position than supporters though...
Opponents are split down the middle while Cummings is largely uniting Leavers behind the Tories
Not behind himself though, which is the poll we were commenting on.
I hated Brown's expedient diversion into nationalism...it was shocking. I fucking hate nationalism in all it's forms. It leads to division, sectarianism, hatred and racism....
I cannot even stand the chant of the English supporters about the Ozzies...always cheating...I turn the volume down, and I love cricket. It's horrible. And there has been something majestic and noble to see Smith confronting the chants, and the boos to show a display of tenacity and skill in batting that I have never seen before....
I'm curious as to when all that started - it certainly wasn't around 20 years.
For that matter the only place where I have heard Australians ever described as 'convicts' is on PB.
You and Tyson need to untwist your knickers and head for Melbourn next Boxing Day Ashes test to see what the Ozzie’s shout at the POMs...
It’s fine - you feel guilt for being a rich Western white dude born into wealth and privilege.
But no need to be a downer on those having a bit of fun and a few beers at the cricket.
It was really funny when the crowd all waved sand paper at Warner and Bancroft when they got out..the chanting is bad enough, but booing someone who is perhaps displaying the best show of batting I have certainly seen is shocking.
That said, I've got a feeling we can dig in tomorrow...and take it to the last test
We don't deserve to, other than THAT Stokes innings England have been outplayed and an Ashes victory would paper over serious longstanding deficiencies in the Test team (and its coach - fortunately leaving - and captain).
All out an hour before tea.
Meh, I think they'll be all out before Lunch.
I think Root is a) a great guy, b) a great bastmen, and c) a crap captain. No idea who should replace him. If you forced me to pick someone Stokes I guess.
No, we need to stop burdening our current best player with the captaincy.
Perhaps parachute Eoin Morgan in - let's be honest, he can't do any worse than the current batsmen and he would certainly improve this side with his captaincy. That said, not sure if he would be too wedded to the WC-winning positive approach which is way too inflexible for the far more nuanced Test game.
Those who oppose Cummings and expelling the rebels will almost all be Labour and LD voters and as Comres shows tonight if the Tories extend again that will let Labour into Downing Street through Tory defections to the Brexit Party so absolute commitment to Brexit Deal or No Deal from Tory MPs must be imposed
Opponents seem far more decisive and certain of their position than supporters though...
Opponents are split down the middle while Cummings is largely uniting Leavers behind the Tories
Not behind himself though, which is the poll we were commenting on.
Once the figures come out I suspect Leavers are mainly behind Cummings and Remainers are fully opposed to him so not true really
I hated Brown's expedient diversion into nationalism...it was shocking. I fucking hate nationalism in all it's forms. It leads to division, sectarianism, hatred and racism....
I cannot even stand the chant of the English supporters about the Ozzies...always cheating...I turn the volume down, and I love cricket. It's horrible. And there has been something majestic and noble to see Smith confronting the chants, and the boos to show a display of tenacity and skill in batting that I have never seen before....
I'm curious as to when all that started - it certainly wasn't around 20 years.
For that matter the only place where I have heard Australians ever described as 'convicts' is on PB.
I respectfully and completely disagree. Sledging and banter and mockery have been an intrinsic part of the sport for as long as I remember.
20 years ago I lived in Australia doing my final year of my A Level equivalent and I absolutely remember it being exactly like that. I took a lot of stick for being a Pommie Bastard and gave it back to the Convicts. The 90s was not a good decade to be a Pommie cricket fan at school downunder lol.
The Barmy Army always came up with great mocking chants.
I went to an ODI at the MCG that from memory was not long after both Australia retaining the Ashes yet again as well as their failed republic referendum. My favourite chant that year was the Aussies chanting "we own the Ashes" and the English chanting in reply "we own your country"
Any England cricketer who toured Australia in the 70s and 80s will tell you it could get pretty vicious, the MCG in particular being a cauldron of intimidation and sledging. Most of it I'm sure harmless and in jest, but still, booing and the whatnot is not a new thing to Test cricket.
It is in this country.
The same applies, I was just pointing out that both sides are as bad as each other.
I hated Brown's expedient diversion into nationalism...it was shocking. I fucking hate nationalism in all it's forms. It leads to division, sectarianism, hatred and racism....
I cannot even stand the chant of the English supporters about the Ozzies...always cheating...I turn the volume down, and I love cricket. It's horrible. And there has been something majestic and noble to see Smith confronting the chants, and the boos to show a display of tenacity and skill in batting that I have never seen before....
I'm curious as to when all that started - it certainly wasn't around 20 years.
For that matter the only place where I have heard Australians ever described as 'convicts' is on PB.
I respectfully and completely disagree. Sledging and banter and mockery have been an intrinsic part of the sport for as long as I remember.
20 years ago I lived in Australia doing my final year of my A Level equivalent and I absolutely remember it being exactly like that. I took a lot of stick for being a Pommie Bastard and gave it back to the Convicts. The 90s was not a good decade to be a Pommie cricket fan at school downunder lol.
The Barmy Army always came up with great mocking chants.
I went to an ODI at the MCG that from memory was not long after both Australia retaining the Ashes yet again as well as their failed republic referendum. My favourite chant that year was the Aussies chanting "we own the Ashes" and the English chanting in reply "we own your country"
Any England cricketer who toured Australia in the 70s and 80s will tell you it could get pretty vicious, the MCG in particular being a cauldron of intimidation and sledging. Most of it I'm sure harmless and in jest, but still, booing and the whatnot is not a new thing to Test cricket.
It is in this country.
Barmy Army got very involved in chanting in this country throughout the 90s.
I hated Brown's expedient diversion into nationalism...it was shocking. I fucking hate nationalism in all it's forms. It leads to division, sectarianism, hatred and racism....
I cannot even stand the chant of the English supporters about the Ozzies...always cheating...I turn the volume down, and I love cricket. It's horrible. And there has been something majestic and noble to see Smith confronting the chants, and the boos to show a display of tenacity and skill in batting that I have never seen before....
I'm curious as to when all that started - it certainly wasn't around 20 years.
For that matter the only place where I have heard Australians ever described as 'convicts' is on PB.
I respectfully and completely disagree. Sledging and banter and mockery have been an intrinsic part of the sport for as long as I remember.
20 years ago I lived in Australia doing my final year of my A Level equivalent and I absolutely remember it being exactly like that. I took a lot of stick for being a Pommie Bastard and gave it back to the Convicts. The 90s was not a good decade to be a Pommie cricket fan at school downunder lol.
The Barmy Army always came up with great mocking chants.
I went to an ODI at the MCG that from memory was not long after both Australia retaining the Ashes yet again as well as their failed republic referendum. My favourite chant that year was the Aussies chanting "we own the Ashes" and the English chanting in reply "we own your country"
I can see how the swapping of abuse makes the world a happier place.
Sledging isn't abuse it's fun. It's all done in good humour and people enjoy it. It's part of the tradition and fun of the sport.
It's certainly not new.
If I met an Aussie friend during the Ashes I'd be quite happy be respectively mocking each other as POM or convict while having a beer with him.
There is a distinction between light hearted banter and mindless abuse. The former has always been a feature of the Ashes in this country - Aussie supporters on tour are always a good bunch - apparently series in Australia have often been more mixed in where the line is drawn.
Although it has been getting more of a feature in the U.K. as well for several years (although is very different at different grounds - but in this series even Lords was succumbing). A clear line is when the booing continues when the opponents play well.
I hated Brown's expedient diversion into nationalism...it was shocking. I fucking hate nationalism in all it's forms. It leads to division, sectarianism, hatred and racism....
I cannot even stand the chant of the English supporters about the Ozzies...always cheating...I turn the volume down, and I love cricket. It's horrible. And there has been something majestic and noble to see Smith confronting the chants, and the boos to show a display of tenacity and skill in batting that I have never seen before....
I'm curious as to when all that started - it certainly wasn't around 20 years.
For that matter the only place where I have heard Australians ever described as 'convicts' is on PB.
I respectfully and completely disagree. Sledging and banter and mockery have been an intrinsic part of the sport for as long as I remember.
20 years ago I lived in Australia doing my final year of my A Level equivalent and I absolutely remember it being exactly like that. I took a lot of stick for being a Pommie Bastard and gave it back to the Convicts. The 90s was not a good decade to be a Pommie cricket fan at school downunder lol.
The Barmy Army always came up with great mocking chants.
I went to an ODI at the MCG that from memory was not long after both Australia retaining the Ashes yet again as well as their failed republic referendum. My favourite chant that year was the Aussies chanting "we own the Ashes" and the English chanting in reply "we own your country"
I can see how the swapping of abuse makes the world a happier place.
Sledging isn't abuse it's fun. It's all done in good humour and people enjoy it. It's part of the tradition and fun of the sport.
It's certainly not new.
If I met an Aussie friend during the Ashes I'd be quite happy be respectively mocking each other as POM or convict while having a beer with him.
Sledging is abuse, it might be funny at times but its still abuse.
Some people might enjoy it but some others don't.
And referring to Australians as convicts really is a recent thing in this country.
Those who oppose Cummings and expelling the rebels will almost all be Labour and LD voters and as Comres shows tonight if the Tories extend again that will let Labour into Downing Street through Tory defections to the Brexit Party so absolute commitment to Brexit Deal or No Deal from Tory MPs must be imposed
Opponents seem far more decisive and certain of their position than supporters though...
Opponents are split down the middle while Cummings is largely uniting Leavers behind the Tories
Not behind himself though, which is the poll we were commenting on.
Once the figures come out I suspect Leavers are mainly behind Cummings and Remainers are fully opposed to him so not true really
What do you mean? That Leavers are now only 29% of the population with 20% having shifted into “don’t know” territory?
It seems a pretty open secret that the LibDem Conference week will start with Heidi Allen’s incoming defection.
Would the last MP from CUK yet to defect to the LDs please turn out the lights!
There is an irony in these MPs who were determined to change British politics have ended up in an establishment party - a party campaigning to retain the status quo. So for them Change meant absolutely nothing.
I hated Brown's expedient diversion into nationalism...it was shocking. I fucking hate nationalism in all it's forms. It leads to division, sectarianism, hatred and racism....
I cannot even stand the chant of the English supporters about the Ozzies...always cheating...I turn the volume down, and I love cricket. It's horrible. And there has been something majestic and noble to see Smith confronting the chants, and the boos to show a display of tenacity and skill in batting that I have never seen before....
I'm curious as to when all that started - it certainly wasn't around 20 years.
For that matter the only place where I have heard Australians ever described as 'convicts' is on PB.
I respectfully and completely disagree. Sledging and banter and mockery have been an intrinsic part of the sport for as long as I remember.
20 years ago I lived in Australia doing my final year of my A Level equivalent and I absolutely remember it being exactly like that. I took a lot of stick for being a Pommie Bastard and gave it back to the Convicts. The 90s was not a good decade to be a Pommie cricket fan at school downunder lol.
The Barmy Army always came up with great mocking chants.
I went to an ODI at the MCG that from memory was not long after both Australia retaining the Ashes yet again as well as their failed republic referendum. My favourite chant that year was the Aussies chanting "we own the Ashes" and the English chanting in reply "we own your country"
Any England cricketer who toured Australia in the 70s and 80s will tell you it could get pretty vicious, the MCG in particular being a cauldron of intimidation and sledging. Most of it I'm sure harmless and in jest, but still, booing and the whatnot is not a new thing to Test cricket.
It is in this country.
Barmy Army got very involved in chanting in this country throughout the 90s.
Not at the matches I went to they didn't.
IIRC the Barmy Army in the 1990s were only a small number who supported England overseas.
It seems a pretty open secret that the LibDem Conference week will start with Heidi Allen’s incoming defection.
Would the last MP from CUK yet to defect to the LDs please turn out the lights!
There is an irony in these MPs who were determined to change British politics have ended up in an establishment party - a party campaigning to retain the status quo. So for them Change meant absolutely nothing.
How different it might have been if Tom Watson hadn't set up the Scooby Gang to stop the defections. And now where is he? Shouting in the void and pretending he didn't champion that lying pedophile.
I hated Brown's expedient diversion into nationalism...it was shocking. I fucking hate nationalism in all it's forms. It leads to division, sectarianism, hatred and racism....
I cannot even stand the chant of the English supporters about the Ozzies...always cheating...I turn the volume down, and I love cricket. It's horrible. And there has been something majestic and noble to see Smith confronting the chants, and the boos to show a display of tenacity and skill in batting that I have never seen before....
I'm curious as to when all that started - it certainly wasn't around 20 years.
For that matter the only place where I have heard Australians ever described as 'convicts' is on PB.
I respectfully and completely disagree. Sledging and banter and mockery have been an intrinsic part of the sport for as long as I remember.
20 years ago I lived in Australia doing my final year of my A Level equivalent and I absolutely remember it being exactly like that. I took a lot of stick for being a Pommie Bastard and gave it back to the Convicts. The 90s was not a good decade to be a Pommie cricket fan at school downunder lol.
The Barmy Army always came up with great mocking chants.
I went to an ODI at the MCG that from memory was not long after both Australia retaining the Ashes yet again as well as their failed republic referendum. My favourite chant that year was the Aussies chanting "we own the Ashes" and the English chanting in reply "we own your country"
I can see how the swapping of abuse makes the world a happier place.
Sledging isn't abuse it's fun. It's all done in good humour and people enjoy it. It's part of the tradition and fun of the sport.
It's certainly not new.
If I met an Aussie friend during the Ashes I'd be quite happy be respectively mocking each other as POM or convict while having a beer with him.
There is a distinction between light hearted banter and mindless abuse. The former has always been a feature of the Ashes in this country - Aussie supporters on tour are always a good bunch - apparently series in Australia have often been more mixed in where the line is drawn.
Although it has been getting more of a feature in the U.K. as well for several years (although is very different at different grounds - but in this series even Lords was succumbing). A clear line is when the booing continues when the opponents play well.
+1
Committed support for your own team does not need to include abuse and hatred of opponents.
There is a distinction between light hearted banter and mindless abuse. The former has always been a feature of the Ashes in this country - Aussie supporters on tour are always a good bunch - apparently series in Australia have often been more mixed in where the line is drawn.
Although it has been getting more of a feature in the U.K. as well for several years (although is very different at different grounds - but in this series even Lords was succumbing). A clear line is when the booing continues when the opponents play well.
Even the booing is done in good humour. It's been done because he earnt it by cheating and that's the fans way of mocking him - he shouldn't have cheated - but many of the same fans will both boo him and give him a standing ovation. He deserves both!
I hated Brown's expedient diversion into nationalism...it was shocking. I fucking hate nationalism in all it's forms. It leads to division, sectarianism, hatred and racism....
I cannot even stand the chant of the English supporters about the Ozzies...always cheating...I turn the volume down, and I love cricket. It's horrible. And there has been something majestic and noble to see Smith confronting the chants, and the boos to show a display of tenacity and skill in batting that I have never seen before....
I'm curious as to when all that started - it certainly wasn't around 20 years.
For that matter the only place where I have heard Australians ever described as 'convicts' is on PB.
I respectfully and completely disagree. Sledging and banter and mockery have been an intrinsic part of the sport for as long as I remember.
20 years ago I lived in Australia doing my final year of my A Level equivalent and I absolutely remember it being exactly like that. I took a lot of stick for being a Pommie Bastard and gave it back to the Convicts. The 90s was not a good decade to be a Pommie cricket fan at school downunder lol.
The Barmy Army always came up with great mocking chants.
I went to an ODI at the MCG that from memory was not long after both Australia retaining the Ashes yet again as well as their failed republic referendum. My favourite chant that year was the Aussies chanting "we own the Ashes" and the English chanting in reply "we own your country"
Any England cricketer who toured Australia in the 70s and 80s will tell you it could get pretty vicious, the MCG in particular being a cauldron of intimidation and sledging. Most of it I'm sure harmless and in jest, but still, booing and the whatnot is not a new thing to Test cricket.
It is in this country.
Barmy Army got very involved in chanting in this country throughout the 90s.
Not at the matches I went to they didn't.
IIRC the Barmy Army in the 1990s were only a small number who supported England overseas.
That's correct, they only existed overseas in the 90s as a significant force.
I hated Brown's expedient diversion into nationalism...it was shocking. I fucking hate nationalism in all it's forms. It leads to division, sectarianism, hatred and racism....
I cannot even stand the chant of the English supporters about the Ozzies...always cheating...I turn the volume down, and I love cricket. It's horrible. And there has been something majestic and noble to see Smith confronting the chants, and the boos to show a display of tenacity and skill in batting that I have never seen before....
I'm curious as to when all that started - it certainly wasn't around 20 years.
For that matter the only place where I have heard Australians ever described as 'convicts' is on PB.
I respectfully and completely disagree. Sledging and banter and mockery have been an intrinsic part of the sport for as long as I remember.
20 years ago I lived in Australia doing my final year of my A Level equivalent and I absolutely remember it being exactly like that. I took a lot of stick for being a Pommie Bastard and gave it back to the Convicts. The 90s was not a good decade to be a Pommie cricket fan at school downunder lol.
The Barmy Army always came up with great mocking chants.
I went to an ODI at the MCG that from memory was not long after both Australia retaining the Ashes yet again as well as their failed republic referendum. My favourite chant that year was the Aussies chanting "we own the Ashes" and the English chanting in reply "we own your country"
I can see how the swapping of abuse makes the world a happier place.
Sledging isn't abuse it's fun. It's all done in good humour and people enjoy it. It's part of the tradition and fun of the sport.
It's certainly not new.
If I met an Aussie friend during the Ashes I'd be quite happy be respectively mocking each other as POM or convict while having a beer with him.
Sledging is abuse, it might be funny at times but its still abuse.
Some people might enjoy it but some others don't.
And referring to Australians as convicts really is a recent thing in this country.
I came back to the UK January 2000 and as I had the accent even I despite not being an Aussie got called a convict. It's absolutely not new.
I hated Brown's expedient diversion into nationalism...it was shocking. I fucking hate nationalism in all it's forms. It leads to division, sectarianism, hatred and racism....
I cannot even stand the chant of the English supporters about the Ozzies...always cheating...I turn the volume down, and I love cricket. It's horrible. And there has been something majestic and noble to see Smith confronting the chants, and the boos to show a display of tenacity and skill in batting that I have never seen before....
I'm curious as to when all that started - it certainly wasn't around 20 years.
For that matter the only place where I have heard Australians ever described as 'convicts' is on PB.
I respectfully and completely disagree. Sledging and banter and mockery have been an intrinsic part of the sport for as long as I remember.
20 years ago I lived in Australia doing my final year of my A Level equivalent and I absolutely remember it being exactly like that. I took a lot of stick for being a Pommie Bastard and gave it back to the Convicts. The 90s was not a good decade to be a Pommie cricket fan at school downunder lol.
The Barmy Army always came up with great mocking chants.
I went to an ODI at the MCG that from memory was not long after both Australia retaining the Ashes yet again as well as their failed republic referendum. My favourite chant that year was the Aussies chanting "we own the Ashes" and the English chanting in reply "we own your country"
I can see how the swapping of abuse makes the world a happier place.
Sledging isn't abuse it's fun. It's all done in good humour and people enjoy it. It's part of the tradition and fun of the sport.
It's certainly not new.
If I met an Aussie friend during the Ashes I'd be quite happy be respectively mocking each other as POM or convict while having a beer with him.
Sledging is abuse, it might be funny at times but its still abuse.
Some people might enjoy it but some others don't.
And referring to Australians as convicts really is a recent thing in this country.
I came back to the UK January 2000 and as I had the accent even I despite not being an Aussie got called a convict. It's absolutely not new.
Would Boris survive going into opposition? Remember, only 44 letters are needed now...and falling. It would be high stakes poker, all in on QQ.
The Tory Party would not survive extending again so it is either keep Boris and do not extend and likely keep a Tory poll lead even in opposition or replace Boris and extend and see a Labour led Government after the next general election and the Brexit Party in due course replace the Tories.
I came back to the UK January 2000 and as I had the accent even I despite not being an Aussie got called a convict. It's absolutely not new.
How long were you there for?
Just over 7 years. Late 92 to just into 2000. Ages 10 to 17.
Due in part to the hemisphere change I skipped a year of education and finished my A level equivalent at 17. Then had about 10 months off before starting university in the UK where I heard convict quite a few times.
There is a distinction between light hearted banter and mindless abuse. The former has always been a feature of the Ashes in this country - Aussie supporters on tour are always a good bunch - apparently series in Australia have often been more mixed in where the line is drawn.
Although it has been getting more of a feature in the U.K. as well for several years (although is very different at different grounds - but in this series even Lords was succumbing). A clear line is when the booing continues when the opponents play well.
Even the booing is done in good humour. It's been done because he earnt it by cheating and that's the fans way of mocking him - he shouldn't have cheated - but many of the same fans will both boo him and give him a standing ovation. He deserves both!
The reality is that a number of the Aussies are cheats who should have been banned for life. What they did is no different to other cheats in other sports, and far exceeds the ball tampering we’ve seen in the past using boiled sweets or sand.
I don’t boo at the cricket, I cheer good play from all sides; except for these cheats. I’m a county member and I’ve seen England play a lot, and these are the only opposition players I’ve solidly booed. But they deserve it and I want them to feel bad.
I came back to the UK January 2000 and as I had the accent even I despite not being an Aussie got called a convict. It's absolutely not new.
How long were you there for?
Just over 7 years. Late 92 to just into 2000. Ages 10 to 17.
Due in part to the hemisphere change I skipped a year of education and finished my A level equivalent at 17. Then had about 10 months off before starting university in the UK where I heard convict quite a few times.
Fascinating the stuff about Guildford: when it went Lib Dem in 2001 Peter Hitchens cited that event as the very embodiment of everything the Tories had screwed up about being serious about being in power. What can I say?
I came back to the UK January 2000 and as I had the accent even I despite not being an Aussie got called a convict. It's absolutely not new.
How long were you there for?
Just over 7 years. Late 92 to just into 2000. Ages 10 to 17.
Due in part to the hemisphere change I skipped a year of education and finished my A level equivalent at 17. Then had about 10 months off before starting university in the UK where I heard convict quite a few times.
Likewise, I've been in the US long enough that I've started speaking like a yank!
"'The coming collapse' - How Dominic Cummings has a plan to 'rebuild' the UK's future
Dominic Cummings has revolutionary designs for the way government policies are devised, decided and delivered, where "flawed" human decision making is mended by big data modelling and machine intelligence.
The Government advisor, currently war-gaming the next move for Mr Johnson, sees gaping errors in the state of political affairs suggesting they currently rely on idealistic human narratives and personal authorities prone to “systemic dysfunction and the influence of grotesque incompetents."
He doesn't want to govern right now, so that's not an issue. The issue is can anyone else govern - the only thing the Commons can agree on is asking for an extension, and even then only barely.
That wasn't "only barely", it was a decent majority, in the face of not just a then-majority-party whip but a full-blown credible deselection threat.
"Tory MPs in coup to make Boris Johnson boot out hated advisor Dominic Cummings
EXCLUSIVE: A coup could take place at soon as tomorrow, as group set to approach the chief whip, Mr Johnson’s parliamentary private secretary and the PM himself"
Realistically these totals no longer matter. There is no majority and that is unsustainable, there needs to be an election and the government recognises this.
Whether it is 289, 288, 270 or 260 is rather moot now. What matters is how many post-election.
It matters if the opposition want to do a GONU, which they should. The hard thing about a GONU used to be that it could be brought down by any small party (or as of last week, even a couple of MPs!) playing silly buggers. There's now already a buffer bigger than the size of the (recently enlarged) Liberal Democrats, and if they carry on like this it won't be long before they're also SNP-proof.
On abuse at cricket, the first Ashes series I remember was 1997 and I distinctly remember the England fans chanting "You fat b******" to Shane Warne dancing around with a stump at the end of the match:
"'The coming collapse' - How Dominic Cummings has a plan to 'rebuild' the UK's future
Dominic Cummings has revolutionary designs for the way government policies are devised, decided and delivered, where "flawed" human decision making is mended by big data modelling and machine intelligence.
The Government advisor, currently war-gaming the next move for Mr Johnson, sees gaping errors in the state of political affairs suggesting they currently rely on idealistic human narratives and personal authorities prone to “systemic dysfunction and the influence of grotesque incompetents."
"'The coming collapse' - How Dominic Cummings has a plan to 'rebuild' the UK's future
Dominic Cummings has revolutionary designs for the way government policies are devised, decided and delivered, where "flawed" human decision making is mended by big data modelling and machine intelligence.
The Government advisor, currently war-gaming the next move for Mr Johnson, sees gaping errors in the state of political affairs suggesting they currently rely on idealistic human narratives and personal authorities prone to “systemic dysfunction and the influence of grotesque incompetents."
Comments
It was really funny when the crowd all waved sand paper at Warner and Bancroft when they got out..the chanting is bad enough, but booing someone who is perhaps displaying the best show of batting I have certainly seen is shocking.
That said, I've got a feeling we can dig in tomorrow...and take it to the last test
In 10 years time once EU immigration is under control it may be an option but now
And if many, how have politics geeks been so overrepresented in a YouGov survey?!
Am I going to have a by-election or will John Mann simply not appear on the Labour box at the next GE ?
Least I don't have to remotely think about voting Labour now as I was half considering giving him a personal vote.
My other half is glad he's left the party too.
All out an hour before tea.
I think Root is a) a great guy, b) a great bastmen, and c) a crap captain. No idea who should replace him. If you forced me to pick someone Stokes I guess.
It's certainly not new.
If I met an Aussie friend during the Ashes I'd be quite happy be respectively mocking each other as POM or convict while having a beer with him.
Not really the Boris or Corbyn look to me.
Perhaps parachute Eoin Morgan in - let's be honest, he can't do any worse than the current batsmen and he would certainly improve this side with his captaincy. That said, not sure if he would be too wedded to the WC-winning positive approach which is way too inflexible for the far more nuanced Test game.
Although it has been getting more of a feature in the U.K. as well for several years (although is very different at different grounds - but in this series even Lords was succumbing). A clear line is when the booing continues when the opponents play well.
Some people might enjoy it but some others don't.
And referring to Australians as convicts really is a recent thing in this country.
IIRC the Barmy Army in the 1990s were only a small number who supported England overseas.
Committed support for your own team does not need to include abuse and hatred of opponents.
Change UK: Ann Coffey, Mike Gapes, Chris Leslie, Joan Ryan, Anna Soubry.
The Independents: Heidi Allen, Gavin Shuker, John Woodcock.
Due in part to the hemisphere change I skipped a year of education and finished my A level equivalent at 17. Then had about 10 months off before starting university in the UK where I heard convict quite a few times.
Banter/sledging/mocking/humour is not hatred. It's rivalry not hate.
I don’t boo at the cricket, I cheer good play from all sides; except for these cheats. I’m a county member and I’ve seen England play a lot, and these are the only opposition players I’ve solidly booed. But they deserve it and I want them to feel bad.
Con 31% (-4) Lab 28% (+4) Lib-Dem 17% (-1) BXP 13% (-1) Con Lead 3%
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9884955/boris-johnson-popularity-falls-brexit/
Dominic Cummings has revolutionary designs for the way government policies are devised, decided and delivered, where "flawed" human decision making is mended by big data modelling and machine intelligence.
The Government advisor, currently war-gaming the next move for Mr Johnson, sees gaping errors in the state of political affairs suggesting they currently rely on idealistic human narratives and personal authorities prone to “systemic dysfunction and the influence of grotesque incompetents."
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1174863/dominic-cummings-brexit-news-latest-boris-johnson-eu-tory-rebels-artificial-intelligence
EXCLUSIVE: A coup could take place at soon as tomorrow, as group set to approach the chief whip, Mr Johnson’s parliamentary private secretary and the PM himself"
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-mps-coup-make-boris-19845342
Where the parties are appears all over the shop.
Where Johnson’s image is going does appear to be pretty consistent.
https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1170478967318618112?s=20
https://tinyurl.com/y2tz78en
Has she joined the LibDems too?