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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » On the eve of the big court case some of the main brexit betti

SystemSystem Posts: 11,015
edited September 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » On the eve of the big court case some of the main brexit betting markets

Charts of Betfair exchange prices from Betdata.io.

Read the full story here


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    DadgeDadge Posts: 2,038
    We truly live in interesting times.
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    PloppikinsPloppikins Posts: 126
    edited September 2019
    Second like remain!
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    BFC = Boris Fried Chicken
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    God Bless Xavier Bettel. What a pity the Luxembourger government didn't have a tub of lard to hand.
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    Bored
    Bored
    Bored.

    Need an England test match asap please to divert from this embarrassing nonsense.
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    Boris has made an absolute t*t of that guy.

    Fancy getting humiliated on your big day in the sun...poor bloke.

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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,650
    Any chance of x-axis scales for those charts?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    I've seen all of those but The Sopranos, and have no real desire to watch that, fine actor that Gandolfini was. And I'm afraid The Wire might now seem slightly dated to someone coming to it for the first time (& is it quite old enough to be 'period' ?).

    Considering the abundance now available, it's strange there's so little outside of US/UK output.
    There are at least three Korean dramas I'd put on there.

    People prefer drama in their own language what can I say?

    More recent? I thought The Night Of was very good, didn't like so much Mr Robot, Ozark I'm in the middle of and so far so good, while Manhunt:Unabomber was fantastic (but retro!) and have just started Mindhunter in the same vein.

    As far as documentaries go, Flint Town was excellent about the Flint police department and, Flint-based also, T-Rex about Claressa Shields was very good.
    Ozark was good. I like Fargo as well , first one was best but others also good.
    Justified was great, but did run out of steam near the end. Deadwood is superb, as is The Shield and Sons of Anarchy. For quirky and dark humour, you can't go wrong with Tin Star-Tim Roth at the top of his game.
    Plato, bless her, was many things but she was an avid Box Setter and she put me onto some superb TV series.
    If I may do a repeated advert for 'Person of Interest'. Technologically flawed in places, but with brilliant characterisations and plots. Root is one of my favourite TV characters - a highly intelligent and slightly insane woman who is essentially in love with an AI. I wish there was to be another series, but perhaps they ended it in the right place.

    Oh, and 'The Good Place' is truly excellent.
    The best thing about Person of Interest is it starts out looking like a pretty standard procedural crime show with a slightly interesting hook, and through gradual movement practically becomes full on philosophical sci-fi by the end. The main bad guy in it for the last few seasons, and his motivations, was glorious in my view. The Good Place I just love - sure it can get a bit pretentious, but its funny, adorable, the characters are great, and its one of the few shows where you genuinely will struggle to predict where it will go next.
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,940
    Wonderful giggles again, this Incredible Sulk stuff.

    I didn’t believe him at the time, but Richard N was right.

    Boris really is worse than Theresa May.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721

    God Bless Xavier Bettel. What a pity the Luxembourger government didn't have a tub of lard to hand.

    Would you have been pleased for Boris to do the same thing to him? If not, I struggle to see why people are so happy about it just because Boris is an arse.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,709
    Has anybody got a read on this? I assume that if UKSC says the PM can just prorogue when he wants, then he will prorogue for a second time immediately the first expires and go for his "failing and blaming" No Deal. And GBP will collapse. But if UKSC says he cannot prorogue on whim, he will be more constrained and GBP may not collapse or even rise.

    Given that money is riding like this, I would welcome a serious response.
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    Peston highlighting fears that the process of selecting new Labour candidates for MP has only been paused in order to concentrate on the process of deselecting the existing ones.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2019-09-16/moderate-labour-mps-fear-the-leadership-is-purging-them-writes-robert-peston/

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,212
    No markets on the SC case? Pity.
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    kle4 said:

    God Bless Xavier Bettel. What a pity the Luxembourger government didn't have a tub of lard to hand.

    Would you have been pleased for Boris to do the same thing to him? If not, I struggle to see why people are so happy about it just because Boris is an arse.
    Many supporters of remain have sadly reached the point where any perceived slight, embarrassment, or setback, for Britain or its Government, is what keeps them going. Pitiable self loathing creatures.
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    Quite frankly, the Big 4 are an effective cartel.
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    viewcode said:

    Has anybody got a read on this? I assume that if UKSC says the PM can just prorogue when he wants, then he will prorogue for a second time immediately the first expires and go for his "failing and blaming" No Deal. And GBP will collapse. But if UKSC says he cannot prorogue on whim, he will be more constrained and GBP may not collapse or even rise.

    Given that money is riding like this, I would welcome a serious response.

    IANAL, but I think it's extremely unlikely that the courts will rule that the PM's power to prorogue parliament is completely unfettered. Indeed the government lawyers have already accepted that an extreme version of prorogation (such as proroguing for two years) would be unlawful.

    Given that, I'd have thought that the example you cite would fall foul of the law even if the Supreme Court rules that the first prorogation was OK.
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    Peston highlighting fears that the process of selecting new Labour candidates for MP has only been paused in order to concentrate on the process of deselecting the existing ones.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2019-09-16/moderate-labour-mps-fear-the-leadership-is-purging-them-writes-robert-peston/

    Does that even make sense? I don't see what the one has to do with the other.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,650
    O/T Interesting... and not quite as predicted by many on here a few days ago:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/sep/16/rnli-donations-surge-tory-criticism-work-overseas-lifeboat-charity
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,326
    viewcode said:

    Has anybody got a read on this? I assume that if UKSC says the PM can just prorogue when he wants, then he will prorogue for a second time immediately the first expires and go for his "failing and blaming" No Deal. And GBP will collapse. But if UKSC says he cannot prorogue on whim, he will be more constrained and GBP may not collapse or even rise.

    Given that money is riding like this, I would welcome a serious response.

    The general view when we last discussed it seemed to be that the biggest hurdle for the petitioners is to get the SC to agree that it's justiciable, rather than none of their business. If they do, then it's relatively easy to conclude that the stated reason for prorogation was not correct and it should therefore be reversed.

    If they don't, then as you say Johnson could extend it again. However, it's said that the Palace warned him "not to even think about" putting them in a position where they had to make a political judgment. Effectively suspending Parliament indefinitely in order to force something through would surely run into Palace reluctance.

    That said, judges are human and they may try to split the difference, ruling that the issue is justiciable but in this case the action was not so egregious as to warrant court intervention. That would be a clear hint that on another occasion they might.
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    Many supporters of remain have sadly reached the point where any perceived slight, embarrassment, or setback, for Britain or its Government, is what keeps them going. Pitiable self loathing creatures.

    I wouldn't necessarily say many because I only see them on political forums and even then it is just the swivel-eyed end of the remainer spectrum.

    I don't think they realise how loathed they are by normal people.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,650

    kle4 said:

    God Bless Xavier Bettel. What a pity the Luxembourger government didn't have a tub of lard to hand.

    Would you have been pleased for Boris to do the same thing to him? If not, I struggle to see why people are so happy about it just because Boris is an arse.
    Many supporters of remain have sadly reached the point where any perceived slight, embarrassment, or setback, for Britain or its Government, is what keeps them going. Pitiable self loathing creatures.
    And that's your unbiased opinion is it?

    :lol:
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    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    kle4 said:

    God Bless Xavier Bettel. What a pity the Luxembourger government didn't have a tub of lard to hand.

    Would you have been pleased for Boris to do the same thing to him? If not, I struggle to see why people are so happy about it just because Boris is an arse.
    Many supporters of remain have sadly reached the point where any perceived slight, embarrassment, or setback, for Britain or its Government, is what keeps them going. Pitiable self loathing creatures.
    Nonsense .

    Why should I support Bozo and his criminal cabal in no 10. I don’t care if the government is humiliated or embarrassed . I didn’t realize we all had to swear allegiance to the great one !

    I support Britain , any humiliation to it is being caused by the Brexit fiasco which I didn’t vote for .

    You voted for it and so own it , so cut the whining and accept responsibility for your vote !
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    So will Johnson push for an election when Parliament finally re-opens?
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    O/T Interesting... and not quite as predicted by many on here a few days ago:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/sep/16/rnli-donations-surge-tory-criticism-work-overseas-lifeboat-charity

    Good to see that the damage potentially caused by the mail is being mitigated, they will need long term support though not just a reaction to the sad sight of people cancelling their direct debits because RNLI was trying to help less fortunate children to swim
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    viewcode said:

    Has anybody got a read on this? I assume that if UKSC says the PM can just prorogue when he wants, then he will prorogue for a second time immediately the first expires and go for his "failing and blaming" No Deal. And GBP will collapse. But if UKSC says he cannot prorogue on whim, he will be more constrained and GBP may not collapse or even rise.

    Given that money is riding like this, I would welcome a serious response.

    The general view when we last discussed it seemed to be that the biggest hurdle for the petitioners is to get the SC to agree that it's justiciable, rather than none of their business. If they do, then it's relatively easy to conclude that the stated reason for prorogation was not correct and it should therefore be reversed.

    If they don't, then as you say Johnson could extend it again. However, it's said that the Palace warned him "not to even think about" putting them in a position where they had to make a political judgment. Effectively suspending Parliament indefinitely in order to force something through would surely run into Palace reluctance.

    That said, judges are human and they may try to split the difference, ruling that the issue is justiciable but in this case the action was not so egregious as to warrant court intervention. That would be a clear hint that on another occasion they might.
    Indeed, to avoid general chaos it seems to me the best result would be for them to say it is justiciable so that any future prorogation can be challenged but that in this instant Boris was acting legally.
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    The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    kle4 said:

    God Bless Xavier Bettel. What a pity the Luxembourger government didn't have a tub of lard to hand.

    Would you have been pleased for Boris to do the same thing to him? If not, I struggle to see why people are so happy about it just because Boris is an arse.
    Many supporters of remain have sadly reached the point where any perceived slight, embarrassment, or setback, for Britain or its Government, is what keeps them going. Pitiable self loathing creatures.
    I remember when Gordon Brown was PM, he lost a few ministers and did a news conference where journalists were laughing at him and taking the piss. It took Gordon Brown a couple of years to get to that point whereas it has taken BJ a couple of months. Whatever your view of Brexit, there can be no denying that BJ is not up to the job... :wink:
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    kle4 said:

    God Bless Xavier Bettel. What a pity the Luxembourger government didn't have a tub of lard to hand.

    Would you have been pleased for Boris to do the same thing to him? If not, I struggle to see why people are so happy about it just because Boris is an arse.
    Many supporters of remain have sadly reached the point where any perceived slight, embarrassment, or setback, for Britain or its Government, is what keeps them going. Pitiable self loathing creatures.
    I remember when Gordon Brown was PM, he lost a few ministers and did a news conference where journalists were laughing at him and taking the piss. It took Gordon Brown a couple of years to get to that point whereas it has taken BJ a couple of months. Whatever your view of Brexit, there can be no denying that BJ is not up to the job... :wink:
    That seems a reasonable observation.
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    nico67 said:

    kle4 said:

    God Bless Xavier Bettel. What a pity the Luxembourger government didn't have a tub of lard to hand.

    Would you have been pleased for Boris to do the same thing to him? If not, I struggle to see why people are so happy about it just because Boris is an arse.
    Many supporters of remain have sadly reached the point where any perceived slight, embarrassment, or setback, for Britain or its Government, is what keeps them going. Pitiable self loathing creatures.
    Nonsense .

    Why should I support Bozo and his criminal cabal in no 10. I don’t care if the government is humiliated or embarrassed . I didn’t realize we all had to swear allegiance to the great one !

    I support Britain , any humiliation to it is being caused by the Brexit fiasco which I didn’t vote for .

    You voted for it and so own it , so cut the whining and accept responsibility for your vote !
    Do you have any evidence of this purported criminality?
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    nico67 said:

    kle4 said:

    God Bless Xavier Bettel. What a pity the Luxembourger government didn't have a tub of lard to hand.

    Would you have been pleased for Boris to do the same thing to him? If not, I struggle to see why people are so happy about it just because Boris is an arse.
    Many supporters of remain have sadly reached the point where any perceived slight, embarrassment, or setback, for Britain or its Government, is what keeps them going. Pitiable self loathing creatures.
    Nonsense .

    Why should I support Bozo and his criminal cabal in no 10. I don’t care if the government is humiliated or embarrassed . I didn’t realize we all had to swear allegiance to the great one !

    I support Britain , any humiliation to it is being caused by the Brexit fiasco which I didn’t vote for .

    You voted for it and so own it , so cut the whining and accept responsibility for your vote !
    You didn’t read the Mail editorial this morning then which suggested anybody disagreeing with Johnson was a traitor.
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    You've got to feel for pb's own @Gallowgate. Two days after he sets off for law school and now it turns out the big money is in accountancy.
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    kle4 said:

    God Bless Xavier Bettel. What a pity the Luxembourger government didn't have a tub of lard to hand.

    Would you have been pleased for Boris to do the same thing to him? If not, I struggle to see why people are so happy about it just because Boris is an arse.
    Yes. If say Spain was leaving the EU and after 3 + years of psychodrama still hadn't left, had demanded to rewrite a negotiated agreement and was now led by a cod nationalist comparing himself to the Hulk, I'd be as rude. And if the Spanish PM visiting London had refused to attend a scheduled press conference because spanish protesters were making a noise because they felt abandoned a British PM would be entitled to empty chair them.

    What's sauce for the Goose is sauce for the Gander.
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    So will Johnson push for an election when Parliament finally re-opens?

    It still seems to me that Boris needs Jeremy Corbyn to be prime minister for a month to delay Brexit and call an election. That way Boris is fighting for the people. But if he does it himself, he looks like a clown who has run out of road.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,709

    viewcode said:

    Has anybody got a read on this? I assume that if UKSC says the PM can just prorogue when he wants, then he will prorogue for a second time immediately the first expires and go for his "failing and blaming" No Deal. And GBP will collapse. But if UKSC says he cannot prorogue on whim, he will be more constrained and GBP may not collapse or even rise.

    Given that money is riding like this, I would welcome a serious response.

    The general view when we last discussed it seemed to be that the biggest hurdle for the petitioners is to get the SC to agree that it's justiciable, rather than none of their business. If they do, then it's relatively easy to conclude that the stated reason for prorogation was not correct and it should therefore be reversed.

    If they don't, then as you say Johnson could extend it again. However, it's said that the Palace warned him "not to even think about" putting them in a position where they had to make a political judgment. Effectively suspending Parliament indefinitely in order to force something through would surely run into Palace reluctance.

    That said, judges are human and they may try to split the difference, ruling that the issue is justiciable but in this case the action was not so egregious as to warrant court intervention. That would be a clear hint that on another occasion they might.
    Thank you. I hope you are correct.
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    nichomar said:

    O/T Interesting... and not quite as predicted by many on here a few days ago:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/sep/16/rnli-donations-surge-tory-criticism-work-overseas-lifeboat-charity

    Good to see that the damage potentially caused by the mail is being mitigated, they will need long term support though not just a reaction to the sad sight of people cancelling their direct debits because RNLI was trying to help less fortunate children to swim.

    People making it tougher for the RNLI to save lives in UK waters because they object to the RNLI helping to save lives in foreign waters is very dispiriting. It’s good to see that so many are not so vindictive.
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    Many supporters of remain have sadly reached the point where any perceived slight, embarrassment, or setback, for Britain or its Government, is what keeps them going. Pitiable self loathing creatures.

    I wouldn't necessarily say many because I only see them on political forums and even then it is just the swivel-eyed end of the remainer spectrum.

    I don't think they realise how loathed they are by normal people.
    And your method for determining what 'normal people' think is?

    In fact, how would you define 'normal people', and does it differ for, say, Norfolk? ;)
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    nichomar said:

    nico67 said:

    kle4 said:

    God Bless Xavier Bettel. What a pity the Luxembourger government didn't have a tub of lard to hand.

    Would you have been pleased for Boris to do the same thing to him? If not, I struggle to see why people are so happy about it just because Boris is an arse.
    Many supporters of remain have sadly reached the point where any perceived slight, embarrassment, or setback, for Britain or its Government, is what keeps them going. Pitiable self loathing creatures.
    Nonsense .

    Why should I support Bozo and his criminal cabal in no 10. I don’t care if the government is humiliated or embarrassed . I didn’t realize we all had to swear allegiance to the great one !

    I support Britain , any humiliation to it is being caused by the Brexit fiasco which I didn’t vote for .

    You voted for it and so own it , so cut the whining and accept responsibility for your vote !
    You didn’t read the Mail editorial this morning then which suggested anybody disagreeing with Johnson was a traitor.
    Crazy stuff. I feel like Boris's whole strategy now relies on him being no confidenced, and yet parliament won't oblige him, so his supporters must get increasingly strident and he keep hinting at breaking the law in order to persuade them.
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    We never used to worry about what Luxembourg thought, said or did, did we? Now the PM of a country with a population the size of Leicester's reduces Brexiteers to apoplexy. Sunlit uplands.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    kle4 said:

    God Bless Xavier Bettel. What a pity the Luxembourger government didn't have a tub of lard to hand.

    Would you have been pleased for Boris to do the same thing to him? If not, I struggle to see why people are so happy about it just because Boris is an arse.
    Yes. If say Spain was leaving the EU and after 3 + years of psychodrama still hadn't left, had demanded to rewrite a negotiated agreement and was now led by a cod nationalist comparing himself to the Hulk, I'd be as rude. And if the Spanish PM visiting London had refused to attend a scheduled press conference because spanish protesters were making a noise because they felt abandoned a British PM would be entitled to empty chair them.

    What's sauce for the Goose is sauce for the Gander.
    so youre up for rubbishing Luxembourg next chance we get ?

    It's a view I suppose.
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    ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    We never used to worry about what Luxembourg thought, said or did, did we? Now the PM of a country with a population the size of Leicester's reduces Brexiteers to apoplexy. Sunlit uplands.

    At least when we’re out we will no longer be ruled by their absurd and unelected politicians, like Juncker.
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    kle4 said:

    God Bless Xavier Bettel. What a pity the Luxembourger government didn't have a tub of lard to hand.

    Would you have been pleased for Boris to do the same thing to him? If not, I struggle to see why people are so happy about it just because Boris is an arse.
    Many supporters of remain have sadly reached the point where any perceived slight, embarrassment, or setback, for Britain or its Government, is what keeps them going. Pitiable self loathing creatures.
    The reason I hate what people like you have done to Britain is because I love Britain. So shove your patriotic willy waving competition where the sun doesn't shine.
    Well said!
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,182
    viewcode said:

    Has anybody got a read on this? I assume that if UKSC says the PM can just prorogue when he wants, then he will prorogue for a second time immediately the first expires and go for his "failing and blaming" No Deal. And GBP will collapse. But if UKSC says he cannot prorogue on whim, he will be more constrained and GBP may not collapse or even rise.

    Given that money is riding like this, I would welcome a serious response.

    My view is that the SC will rule that Prorogation IS a matter for the Courts and that this particular Prorogation is NOT unlawful.

    I will be really surprised at any other outcome.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    Byronic said:

    We never used to worry about what Luxembourg thought, said or did, did we? Now the PM of a country with a population the size of Leicester's reduces Brexiteers to apoplexy. Sunlit uplands.

    At least when we’re out we will no longer be ruled by their absurd and unelected politicians, like Juncker.
    Of course if Trump rather than Bettel had been the host the outrage bus would be
    doing hand brake turns round Islington for the rest of the week.
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    ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    kle4 said:

    God Bless Xavier Bettel. What a pity the Luxembourger government didn't have a tub of lard to hand.

    Would you have been pleased for Boris to do the same thing to him? If not, I struggle to see why people are so happy about it just because Boris is an arse.
    Yes. If say Spain was leaving the EU and after 3 + years of psychodrama still hadn't left, had demanded to rewrite a negotiated agreement and was now led by a cod nationalist comparing himself to the Hulk, I'd be as rude. And if the Spanish PM visiting London had refused to attend a scheduled press conference because spanish protesters were making a noise because they felt abandoned a British PM would be entitled to empty chair them.

    What's sauce for the Goose is sauce for the Gander.
    If we’d specifically said “we want to make Spexit so painful, in the end they will prefer to stay”, then I’d have a deal of sympathy for the Spanish premier.

    What Spain wouldn’t have is an entire class of quislings, trying to undermine their own country, and cheering at any possibility of Spain being humiliated or defeated.
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    Byronic said:

    We never used to worry about what Luxembourg thought, said or did, did we? Now the PM of a country with a population the size of Leicester's reduces Brexiteers to apoplexy. Sunlit uplands.

    At least when we’re out we will no longer be ruled by their absurd and unelected politicians, like Juncker.

    I never really considered myself ruled by them. But I lost.

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    Byronic said:

    kle4 said:

    God Bless Xavier Bettel. What a pity the Luxembourger government didn't have a tub of lard to hand.

    Would you have been pleased for Boris to do the same thing to him? If not, I struggle to see why people are so happy about it just because Boris is an arse.
    Yes. If say Spain was leaving the EU and after 3 + years of psychodrama still hadn't left, had demanded to rewrite a negotiated agreement and was now led by a cod nationalist comparing himself to the Hulk, I'd be as rude. And if the Spanish PM visiting London had refused to attend a scheduled press conference because spanish protesters were making a noise because they felt abandoned a British PM would be entitled to empty chair them.

    What's sauce for the Goose is sauce for the Gander.
    If we’d specifically said “we want to make Spexit so painful, in the end they will prefer to stay”, then I’d have a deal of sympathy for the Spanish premier.

    What Spain wouldn’t have is an entire class of quislings, trying to undermine their own country, and cheering at any possibility of Spain being humiliated or defeated.

    Go to Catalonia!

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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,119
    kle4 said:

    nichomar said:

    nico67 said:

    kle4 said:

    God Bless Xavier Bettel. What a pity the Luxembourger government didn't have a tub of lard to hand.

    Would you have been pleased for Boris to do the same thing to him? If not, I struggle to see why people are so happy about it just because Boris is an arse.
    Many supporters of remain have sadly reached the point where any perceived slight, embarrassment, or setback, for Britain or its Government, is what keeps them going. Pitiable self loathing creatures.
    Nonsense .

    Why should I support Bozo and his criminal cabal in no 10. I don’t care if the government is humiliated or embarrassed . I didn’t realize we all had to swear allegiance to the great one !

    I support Britain , any humiliation to it is being caused by the Brexit fiasco which I didn’t vote for .

    You voted for it and so own it , so cut the whining and accept responsibility for your vote !
    You didn’t read the Mail editorial this morning then which suggested anybody disagreeing with Johnson was a traitor.
    Crazy stuff. I feel like Boris's whole strategy now relies on him being no confidenced, and yet parliament won't oblige him, so his supporters must get increasingly strident and he keep hinting at breaking the law in order to persuade them.
    What is the evidence that Johnson has the tiniest clue what to do, let along a "whole strategy"?
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Loving the Luxembourg 'we didn't have a big enough room' excuse.
    Eeeez all tiny ere!
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    Completely OT and apologies if it has already been mentioned - I have been driving down from Aberdeen to Lincolnshire today so this is the first time I have been on PB.

    Start the Week with Andrew Marr was absolutely brilliant this morning. It was less like the normal Start the Week and more like an episode of 'In Our Times'. The guests were

    Lord David Howell - Chairman of The Commonwealth Societies Association and former Executive Member of the European Movement. He also served Heath, Thatcher and Major as advisor.

    Susan Neiman - An American moral philosopher based in Berlin who has been studying the process of how countries come to terms with their past crimes.

    Professor Stuart Ward - specialises in European imperial history and the settler-colonies of the British empire.

    Jane Green - Co-Director of the British Election Study

    Lots of fascinating stuff on Brexit, the Commonwealth an particularly in the latter part of the programme on voter churn and the changing nature of our politics.

    Really interesting, informed and well balanced. Available to listen to for the next few days at:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0008hjq
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    We never used to worry about what Luxembourg thought, said or did, did we? Now the PM of a country with a population the size of Leicester's reduces Brexiteers to apoplexy. Sunlit uplands.

    Actually we've had to worry about what Luxembourg thought for years. The idea that we never did before might be news to Jean Claude Juncker for starters.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    The national dish of Luxembourg is pork with broad beans and boiled potato #todaysramdomfact
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,590
    edited September 2019
    Byronic said:

    kle4 said:

    God Bless Xavier Bettel. What a pity the Luxembourger government didn't have a tub of lard to hand.

    Would you have been pleased for Boris to do the same thing to him? If not, I struggle to see why people are so happy about it just because Boris is an arse.
    Yes. If say Spain was leaving the EU and after 3 + years of psychodrama still hadn't left, had demanded to rewrite a negotiated agreement and was now led by a cod nationalist comparing himself to the Hulk, I'd be as rude. And if the Spanish PM visiting London had refused to attend a scheduled press conference because spanish protesters were making a noise because they felt abandoned a British PM would be entitled to empty chair them.

    What's sauce for the Goose is sauce for the Gander.
    If we’d specifically said “we want to make Spexit so painful, in the end they will prefer to stay”, then I’d have a deal of sympathy for the Spanish premier.

    What Spain wouldn’t have is an entire class of quislings, trying to undermine their own country, and cheering at any possibility of Spain being humiliated or defeated.
    Spain invented Fifth Columnists!
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,709

    Completely OT and apologies if it has already been mentioned - I have been driving down from Aberdeen to Lincolnshire today so this is the first time I have been on PB.

    Start the Week with Andrew Marr was absolutely brilliant this morning. It was less like the normal Start the Week and more like an episode of 'In Our Times'. The guests were

    Lord David Howell - Chairman of The Commonwealth Societies Association and former Executive Member of the European Movement. He also served Heath, Thatcher and Major as advisor.

    Susan Neiman - An American moral philosopher based in Berlin who has been studying the process of how countries come to terms with their past crimes.

    Professor Stuart Ward - specialises in European imperial history and the settler-colonies of the British empire.

    Jane Green - Co-Director of the British Election Study

    Lots of fascinating stuff on Brexit, the Commonwealth an particularly in the latter part of the programme on voter churn and the changing nature of our politics.

    Really interesting, informed and well balanced. Available to listen to for the next few days at:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0008hjq

    I will listen to the episode (iPlayer->Sounds->Start the Week->Escaping the past) tonight on the train. Thank you for the link.

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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,100
    Well, at least by tomorrow, there'll be a new entity to love/hate, as the Brexit circus moves on from some clown in Luxembourg to the Supreme Court...
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,119

    Well, at least by tomorrow, there'll be a new entity to love/hate, as the Brexit circus moves on from some clown in Luxembourg ...

    That's no way to refer to the prime minister.

    "Hulk Will Smash!"
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    @Byronic

    Thank you for your interesting recent review of David Cameron's autobiography. It motivated me to go and buy a copy, but I was told it was not out for another three days.

    How did you manage to get a copy and read it so quickly that you could give us such a detailed account?

    I believe it runs to 750 pages. Would take me a month to get through that lot. Impressed.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,709
    viewcode said:

    Completely OT and apologies if it has already been mentioned - I have been driving down from Aberdeen to Lincolnshire today so this is the first time I have been on PB.

    Start the Week with Andrew Marr was absolutely brilliant this morning. It was less like the normal Start the Week and more like an episode of 'In Our Times'. The guests were

    Lord David Howell - Chairman of The Commonwealth Societies Association and former Executive Member of the European Movement. He also served Heath, Thatcher and Major as advisor.

    Susan Neiman - An American moral philosopher based in Berlin who has been studying the process of how countries come to terms with their past crimes.

    Professor Stuart Ward - specialises in European imperial history and the settler-colonies of the British empire.

    Jane Green - Co-Director of the British Election Study

    Lots of fascinating stuff on Brexit, the Commonwealth an particularly in the latter part of the programme on voter churn and the changing nature of our politics.

    Really interesting, informed and well balanced. Available to listen to for the next few days at:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0008hjq

    I will listen to the episode (iPlayer->Sounds->Start the Week->Escaping the past) tonight on the train. Thank you for the link.

    If we are trading BBC Radio links, may I recommend "James Burke on the End of Scarcity", see https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b09jvfc4
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,182
    Donald is talking about being "locked and loaded" again.

    Tough guy. Do not mess with.

    What a change from that pussy Obama.
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    eggegg Posts: 1,749
    viewcode said:

    Completely OT and apologies if it has already been mentioned - I have been driving down from Aberdeen to Lincolnshire today so this is the first time I have been on PB.

    Start the Week with Andrew Marr was absolutely brilliant this morning. It was less like the normal Start the Week and more like an episode of 'In Our Times'. The guests were

    Lord David Howell - Chairman of The Commonwealth Societies Association and former Executive Member of the European Movement. He also served Heath, Thatcher and Major as advisor.

    Susan Neiman - An American moral philosopher based in Berlin who has been studying the process of how countries come to terms with their past crimes.

    Professor Stuart Ward - specialises in European imperial history and the settler-colonies of the British empire.

    Jane Green - Co-Director of the British Election Study

    Lots of fascinating stuff on Brexit, the Commonwealth an particularly in the latter part of the programme on voter churn and the changing nature of our politics.

    Really interesting, informed and well balanced. Available to listen to for the next few days at:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0008hjq

    I will listen to the episode (iPlayer->Sounds->Start the Week->Escaping the past) tonight on the train. Thank you for the link.

    My take out was the part the new epoch of information technology plays in undermining old orders
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    The national dish of Luxembourg is pork with broad beans and boiled potato #todaysramdomfact

    Belgium has a French-speaking province which is also called Luxembourg.
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    ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    edited September 2019

    @Byronic

    Thank you for your interesting recent review of David Cameron's autobiography. It motivated me to go and buy a copy, but I was told it was not out for another three days.

    How did you manage to get a copy and read it so quickly that you could give us such a detailed account?

    I believe it runs to 750 pages. Would take me a month to get through that lot. Impressed.


    I read more today, in The Times. Amazingly, it gets WORSE. More inane, more self-pitying, more cringey.

    Weirdly, he thinks quoting Boris’ texts, praising Dave, makes Dave look better.

    “Back in my office, with George, I prepared to watch Boris’s leadership-campaign launch speech. Or at least, we thought it would be his launch speech. But there was another shocking turn of events: rather than going ahead and at least challenging Michael, he declared that he was withdrawing altogether. George sat there beaming at the TV. “We have taken Boris out. Now on to Port Stanley!” he said, meaning it was Michael’s turn to fall next.

    “He thought it was great news, and that the two of them were both dead in the water. I called Lynton Crosby, who said Boris had withdrawn because he knew he wouldn’t get the necessary support any more. I couldn’t resist texting the former frontrunner: “You should have stuck with me, mate.” His reply was very Boris: “Blimey, is he [Michael] a bit cracked or something? Great speech last night, everyone watched and thought we’d all gone insane to lose you and people were looking at me as if I was a leper, but you had 11 hard years of party leadership and six superbly as PM, more than I will ever do. Boris.””
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    Disappointing to pop in on here tonight and see posters cheering on discourteous behaviour by the Luxembourg PM towards our PM. It really was ill-mannered. I'm sure no British PM would behave in such a way outside No 10 if the roles were reversed.
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    eggegg Posts: 1,749

    viewcode said:

    Has anybody got a read on this? I assume that if UKSC says the PM can just prorogue when he wants, then he will prorogue for a second time immediately the first expires and go for his "failing and blaming" No Deal. And GBP will collapse. But if UKSC says he cannot prorogue on whim, he will be more constrained and GBP may not collapse or even rise.

    Given that money is riding like this, I would welcome a serious response.

    The general view when we last discussed it seemed to be that the biggest hurdle for the petitioners is to get the SC to agree that it's justiciable, rather than none of their business. If they do, then it's relatively easy to conclude that the stated reason for prorogation was not correct and it should therefore be reversed.

    If they don't, then as you say Johnson could extend it again. However, it's said that the Palace warned him "not to even think about" putting them in a position where they had to make a political judgment. Effectively suspending Parliament indefinitely in order to force something through would surely run into Palace reluctance.

    That said, judges are human and they may try to split the difference, ruling that the issue is justiciable but in this case the action was not so egregious as to warrant court intervention. That would be a clear hint that on another occasion they might.

    Is it politics, where they shouldn’t go. Is it democracy and constitution where they absolutely are obliged to go.

    Good luck to them trying to explain it’s just merely politics. 😄
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,940

    @Byronic

    Thank you for your interesting recent review of David Cameron's autobiography. It motivated me to go and buy a copy, but I was told it was not out for another three days.

    How did you manage to get a copy and read it so quickly that you could give us such a detailed account?

    I believe it runs to 750 pages. Would take me a month to get through that lot. Impressed.

    Telepathy
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    Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268
    kinabalu said:

    Donald is talking about being "locked and loaded" again.

    Tough guy. Do not mess with.

    What a change from that pussy Obama.

    I can't tell if this is satire or not.
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Byronic said:

    @Byronic

    Thank you for your interesting recent review of David Cameron's autobiography. It motivated me to go and buy a copy, but I was told it was not out for another three days.

    How did you manage to get a copy and read it so quickly that you could give us such a detailed account?

    I believe it runs to 750 pages. Would take me a month to get through that lot. Impressed.


    I read more today, in The Times. Amazingly, it gets WORSE. More inane, more self-pitying, more cringey.

    Weirdly, he thinks quoting Boris’ texts, praising Dave, makes Dave look better.

    “Back in my office, with George, I prepared to watch Boris’s leadership-campaign launch speech. Or at least, we thought it would be his launch speech. But there was another shocking turn of events: rather than going ahead and at least challenging Michael, he declared that he was withdrawing altogether. George sat there beaming at the TV. “We have taken Boris out. Now on to Port Stanley!” he said, meaning it was Michael’s turn to fall next.

    “He thought it was great news, and that the two of them were both dead in the water. I called Lynton Crosby, who said Boris had withdrawn because he knew he wouldn’t get the necessary support any more. I couldn’t resist texting the former frontrunner: “You should have stuck with me, mate.” His reply was very Boris: “Blimey, is he [Michael] a bit cracked or something? Great speech last night, everyone watched and thought we’d all gone insane to lose you and people were looking at me as if I was a leper, but you had 11 hard years of party leadership and six superbly as PM, more than I will ever do. Boris.””
    Well what else do you expect from a bunch of ex public school boys who think their destiny is guaranteed because of where they came from. We haven’t seen a decent and I mean decent Tory leader since John major
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    eekeek Posts: 24,956

    So will Johnson push for an election when Parliament finally re-opens?

    It still seems to me that Boris needs Jeremy Corbyn to be prime minister for a month to delay Brexit and call an election. That way Boris is fighting for the people. But if he does it himself, he looks like a clown who has run out of road.
    Which is why everyone else is happy for Boris to be in power as he can’t do a single thing and is weakened every time he tries to do something
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,119

    Disappointing to pop in on here tonight and see posters cheering on discourteous behaviour by the Luxembourg PM towards our PM. It really was ill-mannered. I'm sure no British PM would behave in such a way outside No 10 if the roles were reversed.

    What a lot of silly Pfeffel.
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    @Byronic

    Thank you for your interesting recent review of David Cameron's autobiography. It motivated me to go and buy a copy, but I was told it was not out for another three days.

    How did you manage to get a copy and read it so quickly that you could give us such a detailed account?

    I believe it runs to 750 pages. Would take me a month to get through that lot. Impressed.

    A month for 750 pages?
  • Options
    eggegg Posts: 1,749

    Boris has made an absolute t*t of that guy.

    Fancy getting humiliated on your big day in the sun...poor bloke.


    I agree. Boris played that bit quite well. Couldn’t hold the press conference out there amongst that crowd.

    His interview with Laura was an utter car crash. That’s probably more serious.

    £25,300 on six-second Brexit advert. Any brexiteers care to defend that? When you think how far that would go in a school or hospitable.
  • Options

    Completely OT and apologies if it has already been mentioned - I have been driving down from Aberdeen to Lincolnshire today so this is the first time I have been on PB.

    Start the Week with Andrew Marr was absolutely brilliant this morning. It was less like the normal Start the Week and more like an episode of 'In Our Times'. The guests were

    Lord David Howell - Chairman of The Commonwealth Societies Association and former Executive Member of the European Movement. He also served Heath, Thatcher and Major as advisor.

    Susan Neiman - An American moral philosopher based in Berlin who has been studying the process of how countries come to terms with their past crimes.

    Professor Stuart Ward - specialises in European imperial history and the settler-colonies of the British empire.

    Jane Green - Co-Director of the British Election Study

    Lots of fascinating stuff on Brexit, the Commonwealth an particularly in the latter part of the programme on voter churn and the changing nature of our politics.

    Really interesting, informed and well balanced. Available to listen to for the next few days at:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0008hjq

    Yep, it was good, lots of meaty, resonant stuff.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,956

    Disappointing to pop in on here tonight and see posters cheering on discourteous behaviour by the Luxembourg PM towards our PM. It really was ill-mannered. I'm sure no British PM would behave in such a way outside No 10 if the roles were reversed.

    Was it discourteous if no other place was big enough for the journalists wishing to report the meeting.

    Boris was the discourteous one for at least not starting the conference to show how pointless it was
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,212
    Gabs2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Donald is talking about being "locked and loaded" again.

    Tough guy. Do not mess with.

    What a change from that pussy Obama.

    I can't tell if this is satire or not.
    Likewise. To date Trump has been far less trigger happy than Obama. Long may that continue.
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,940

    kle4 said:

    God Bless Xavier Bettel. What a pity the Luxembourger government didn't have a tub of lard to hand.

    Would you have been pleased for Boris to do the same thing to him? If not, I struggle to see why people are so happy about it just because Boris is an arse.
    Many supporters of remain have sadly reached the point where any perceived slight, embarrassment, or setback, for Britain or its Government, is what keeps them going. Pitiable self loathing creatures.
    I’d suggest you might need to lighten up just a teensy little bit, old bean.
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    eggegg Posts: 1,749
    What all the opposition parties tend to forget is the economy is going well in the background to all this, rebounding back brilliantly to the threat of recession.
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    Byronic said:

    @Byronic

    Thank you for your interesting recent review of David Cameron's autobiography. It motivated me to go and buy a copy, but I was told it was not out for another three days.

    How did you manage to get a copy and read it so quickly that you could give us such a detailed account?

    I believe it runs to 750 pages. Would take me a month to get through that lot. Impressed.


    I read more today, in The Times. Amazingly, it gets WORSE. More inane, more self-pitying, more cringey.

    Weirdly, he thinks quoting Boris’ texts, praising Dave, makes Dave look better.

    “Back in my office, with George, I prepared to watch Boris’s leadership-campaign launch speech. Or at least, we thought it would be his launch speech. But there was another shocking turn of events: rather than going ahead and at least challenging Michael, he declared that he was withdrawing altogether. George sat there beaming at the TV. “We have taken Boris out. Now on to Port Stanley!” he said, meaning it was Michael’s turn to fall next.

    “He thought it was great news, and that the two of them were both dead in the water. I called Lynton Crosby, who said Boris had withdrawn because he knew he wouldn’t get the necessary support any more. I couldn’t resist texting the former frontrunner: “You should have stuck with me, mate.” His reply was very Boris: “Blimey, is he [Michael] a bit cracked or something? Great speech last night, everyone watched and thought we’d all gone insane to lose you and people were looking at me as if I was a leper, but you had 11 hard years of party leadership and six superbly as PM, more than I will ever do. Boris.””
    Sorry, I was under the impression you'd read the whole book, not just the edited highlights.
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,119
    edited September 2019
    kinabalu said:

    Donald is talking about being "locked and loaded" again.

    Tough guy. Do not mess with.

    What a change from that pussy Obama.

    Didn't Arnold Schwarzenegger once describe Obama as a "girly"?

    Does he perhaps share some Germanic ancestry with our own distinguished prime minister?
  • Options

    We never used to worry about what Luxembourg thought, said or did, did we? Now the PM of a country with a population the size of Leicester's reduces Brexiteers to apoplexy. Sunlit uplands.

    Don't let yourself be fooled by the harmless appearance.

    In fact, the Letzeboorgsche hellmouth is who kicked it all off and is still holding all the strings.

    Contrary to popular belief the evil empire of the Fourth Reich was not started by Frogs and Krauts in '51 but rather by the Letzeboorger hellhounds in '44.
    They used the tribulations of the time to infiltrate the British Empire and sneakily chose the very heart of it, Westminster, as the setting to impose their yoke on the unsuspecting Dutch and Belgians, under the BENELUX guise.
    That's where the founding treaties were signed, and BENELUX with its common constitutional charter, supranational parliament and other institutions was then later on the template to plot for the enslavement of other European peoples, and, of course, they made a killing of it.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,590

    So will Johnson push for an election when Parliament finally re-opens?

    It still seems to me that Boris needs Jeremy Corbyn to be prime minister for a month to delay Brexit and call an election. That way Boris is fighting for the people. But if he does it himself, he looks like a clown who has run out of road.
    The biggest risk of such a plan is that PM Jezza proves to be popular for that month...
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,940

    Disappointing to pop in on here tonight and see posters cheering on discourteous behaviour by the Luxembourg PM towards our PM. It really was ill-mannered. I'm sure no British PM would behave in such a way outside No 10 if the roles were reversed.

    Pearl stocks under massive pressure.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,590

    @Byronic

    Thank you for your interesting recent review of David Cameron's autobiography. It motivated me to go and buy a copy, but I was told it was not out for another three days.

    How did you manage to get a copy and read it so quickly that you could give us such a detailed account?

    I believe it runs to 750 pages. Would take me a month to get through that lot. Impressed.

    A month for 750 pages?
    Such a work needs to be savoured :smiley:
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,940
    Lots of free publicity today for a country many people have never heard of.

    The Mouse That Roared!
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,590
    egg said:

    What all the opposition parties tend to forget is the economy is going well in the background to all this, rebounding back brilliantly to the threat of recession.

    Not so sure about that! PMIs across the world look pretty grim.
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    Good to see the Cameron derby is back this evening after a few years' absence. Perfectly timed to coincide with publication of the memoirs.
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    eggegg Posts: 1,749
    Ref the scary banshee in charge of the libdems new hardline revoke policy. I have thought about it, such a BOLLOCKS TO DEMOCRACY stance got to some extent make it harder to win seats from Tories where they need people, regardless how they voted, to switch to them.

    HY should be happy about this, in his lists of seats to change hands at next election he had a pile the libdems could win. This evening it has to be less likely libdems will perform well in those now, such as Cornwall and up through the southwest, but proportionately better at taking votes off Labour in London, the south and east.

    It’s a HY win 😀
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,988
    kinabalu said:

    viewcode said:

    Has anybody got a read on this? I assume that if UKSC says the PM can just prorogue when he wants, then he will prorogue for a second time immediately the first expires and go for his "failing and blaming" No Deal. And GBP will collapse. But if UKSC says he cannot prorogue on whim, he will be more constrained and GBP may not collapse or even rise.

    Given that money is riding like this, I would welcome a serious response.

    My view is that the SC will rule that Prorogation IS a matter for the Courts and that this particular Prorogation is NOT unlawful.

    I will be really surprised at any other outcome.
    I hope you're right.

    I also hope that the judges split 6/5 in judging that this particular Prorogation is NOT unlawful to illustrate the fact that Johnson/Cummings are walking very near the edge of legality.
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    Attack on Oil Facility Is Seen as Short-Term Disruption https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/15/business/saudi-arabia-oil-energy-prices.html
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    DruttDrutt Posts: 1,093
    edited September 2019
    egg said:

    Boris has made an absolute t*t of that guy.

    Fancy getting humiliated on your big day in the sun...poor bloke.


    I agree. Boris played that bit quite well. Couldn’t hold the press conference out there amongst that crowd.

    His interview with Laura was an utter car crash. That’s probably more serious.

    £25,300 on six-second Brexit advert. Any brexiteers care to defend that? When you think how far that would go in a school or hospitable.
    £25300 will run the NHS for pretty much dead-on six seconds, as it happens
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    Foxy said:

    @Byronic

    Thank you for your interesting recent review of David Cameron's autobiography. It motivated me to go and buy a copy, but I was told it was not out for another three days.

    How did you manage to get a copy and read it so quickly that you could give us such a detailed account?

    I believe it runs to 750 pages. Would take me a month to get through that lot. Impressed.

    A month for 750 pages?
    Such a work needs to be savoured :smiley:
    Well, I do have a life beyond all this stuff. There's the dog to be walked for a start.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,590

    Lots of free publicity today for a country many people have never heard of.

    The Mouse That Roared!

    It is a rather charming place. I took in Luxembourg on a motorbike tour of Low countries battlefields in 1987. You could still find the odd unsalvaged tank in hedgerows there. I remember a particularly lovely night in Wiltz drinking and talking motorbikes with the locals.

    It was a rather formidable Grand Duchy in its day. It was stripped of most of its hinterland by rival powers to prevent it getting too upitty again.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    DavidL said:

    Gabs2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Donald is talking about being "locked and loaded" again.

    Tough guy. Do not mess with.

    What a change from that pussy Obama.

    I can't tell if this is satire or not.
    Likewise. To date Trump has been far less trigger happy than Obama. Long may that continue.
    Yes - I remember when the pearl clutching leftie tossers were predicting confidently that Trump would start WW3.

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,212

    Attack on Oil Facility Is Seen as Short-Term Disruption https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/15/business/saudi-arabia-oil-energy-prices.html

    Oil futures were up about 14% today. In times past that would have been enough to cause a recession on its own but oil is not nearly so dominant a feature of our service driven economy these days.

    What this does indicate is the vulnerability of Saudi and other ME oil assets. Even the USA would really struggle to stop repeated drone attacks like this. It makes conventional control of the skies pretty pointless and ineffective.

    The biggest gainers in the short run are likely to be fracking companies in the US and Canada. The pressure to make us less dependent upon ME sources will also increase. At a time when the world economy is already suffering a downturn I would not underestimate the implications of this. We really need to get on with fracking here too.
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    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    When support for a PM is now being portrayed as supporting Britain and thereby not supporting the PM is now classed as traitorous behaviour things have got out of hand.

    To take a leaf out of the Leave handbook during the EU ref , and one of the many slogans .

    Love Britain Hate Bozo !

    Leavers seem to think that anyone that disagrees with Brexit is a heretic .

    We simply have a difference of opinion as to what we think is best for the country . Just as we do during general elections.

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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    TGOHF said:

    DavidL said:

    Gabs2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Donald is talking about being "locked and loaded" again.

    Tough guy. Do not mess with.

    What a change from that pussy Obama.

    I can't tell if this is satire or not.
    Likewise. To date Trump has been far less trigger happy than Obama. Long may that continue.
    Yes - I remember when the pearl clutching leftie tossers were predicting confidently that Trump would start WW3.

    You wanna see pearl clutching? Wait till the FISA abuse reports come out and 'action' is taken ;)
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,940
    Foxy said:

    Lots of free publicity today for a country many people have never heard of.

    The Mouse That Roared!

    It is a rather charming place. I took in Luxembourg on a motorbike tour of Low countries battlefields in 1987. You could still find the odd unsalvaged tank in hedgerows there. I remember a particularly lovely night in Wiltz drinking and talking motorbikes with the locals.

    It was a rather formidable Grand Duchy in its day. It was stripped of most of its hinterland by rival powers to prevent it getting too upitty again.
    I enjoyed it when I visited, although I was a mere boy at the time. I did not know its history. I shall now read up about it.
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    DavidL said:

    Gabs2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Donald is talking about being "locked and loaded" again.

    Tough guy. Do not mess with.

    What a change from that pussy Obama.

    I can't tell if this is satire or not.
    Likewise. To date Trump has been far less trigger happy than Obama. Long may that continue.
    Give him his full title please.

    To date Trump has been far less trigger happy than Nobel Peace Prize laureate Obama.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,850
    egg said:

    Boris has made an absolute t*t of that guy.

    Fancy getting humiliated on your big day in the sun...poor bloke.


    I agree. Boris played that bit quite well. Couldn’t hold the press conference out there amongst that crowd.

    His interview with Laura was an utter car crash. That’s probably more serious.

    £25,300 on six-second Brexit advert. Any brexiteers care to defend that? When you think how far that would go in a school or hospitable.
    BFC
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    viewcode said:

    Has anybody got a read on this? I assume that if UKSC says the PM can just prorogue when he wants, then he will prorogue for a second time immediately the first expires and go for his "failing and blaming" No Deal. And GBP will collapse. But if UKSC says he cannot prorogue on whim, he will be more constrained and GBP may not collapse or even rise.

    Given that money is riding like this, I would welcome a serious response.

    The general view when we last discussed it seemed to be that the biggest hurdle for the petitioners is to get the SC to agree that it's justiciable, rather than none of their business. If they do, then it's relatively easy to conclude that the stated reason for prorogation was not correct and it should therefore be reversed.

    If they don't, then as you say Johnson could extend it again. However, it's said that the Palace warned him "not to even think about" putting them in a position where they had to make a political judgment. Effectively suspending Parliament indefinitely in order to force something through would surely run into Palace reluctance.

    That said, judges are human and they may try to split the difference, ruling that the issue is justiciable but in this case the action was not so egregious as to warrant court intervention. That would be a clear hint that on another occasion they might.
    Indeed, to avoid general chaos it seems to me the best result would be for them to say it is justiciable so that any future prorogation can be challenged but that in this instant Boris was acting legally.
    Some pretty senior judges were on the bench the first go round
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    DavidL said:

    Gabs2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Donald is talking about being "locked and loaded" again.

    Tough guy. Do not mess with.

    What a change from that pussy Obama.

    I can't tell if this is satire or not.
    Likewise. To date Trump has been far less trigger happy than Obama. Long may that continue.
    Give THEM THEIR full title please.

    To date Trump has been far less trigger happy than Nobel Peace Prize laureate Obama.
    Fixed it for you
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