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  • eekeek Posts: 6,021

    It’s clear now the government is either monumentally stupid or has never been serious about getting a deal. Both are live possibilities. I incline to the second, just because no government could be that stupid. Could it?

    I think you may be underestimating this government. :wink:
    Can I choose both options?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 9,003
    Chris said:

    ScottP has posted no fewer than 6 copy pastes from Twitter in this page of posts alone, with no attempt at commentary, elucidation, or engaging in discussion with other posters. Could you calm down please? PB isn't a retweet.

    Yes, Scott P. Stop posting all these different things.

    Please just post the same thing over and over again, in the approved manner.
    Well, no, I wouldn't want to give him your gig.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 26,738
    AndyJS said:

    ITV News: there won't be a no confidence vote this week.

    This is news?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 4,920
    Scott_P said:
    So - Boris Johnson has been claiming that we need the threat of leaving without a deal, so that we can force the EU to make concessions (because they are terrified of No Deal, while he's not particularly bothered).

    And now that he's legally obliged to ask the EU for an extension, he's asking the EU to rule out giving an extension - so we can go back to threatening them with No Deal, which they are terrified of [etc].

    Is there any version of reality in which any of this makes any sense whatsoever?
  • glwglw Posts: 5,472
    edited September 30

    Trump asking the aussies to help is unsurprising, hes clearly going after the Obama DoJ hard.

    Errr I'm fairly sure that he's hoping the Aussies will rubbish their own intelligence services, and that the public will ignore that there were already US developed grounds for starting an investigation. YMMV.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 23,191
    AndyJS said:

    ITV News: there won't be a no confidence vote this week.

    LOL, so they voted down a recess last week for the Tory conference, but now can’t be bothered to make a nuisance of themselves when it’s on. Surely the whole point was to engineer the spectacle of half the cabinet having to use trains, planes and automobiles to rush back to London in the middle of their own conference?

    What’s the point of the Opposition?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 10,613
    If that headline is correct then we are fucked. This technique of bypassing the EU has been tried by Trump, Cameron, Davis, May and some others who I forget and it has failed every time. It's such a dumb move it can't be sincere. So either we are really desperate or this is deliberate "failing and blaming". Either way, No Deal.
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:
    Matt Pritchett is a total and utter genius, he gets these right almost every time (which of course is why they pay him something like £3k a day). Genuine LOL.
    You say he gets paid HOW MUCH !!!!! £1 million a year! Really?
    £600k, plus eight weeks off, and he got a country house as a bonus one year.

    The publisher has told the editor that Matt leaving would be considered a resigning matter for said editor, and he has standing written offers from both the Mail and the Sun.

    He’s the highest paid employee at the Telegraph group, earns more than the editor.

    Nice work if you can get it!
    He is the one genuinely funny cartoonist in the media, most others are utter dross . . .

    But how many people actually pay for the Telegraph because of Matt? The cartoon can be seen online every day.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 4,920

    Chris said:

    ScottP has posted no fewer than 6 copy pastes from Twitter in this page of posts alone, with no attempt at commentary, elucidation, or engaging in discussion with other posters. Could you calm down please? PB isn't a retweet.

    Yes, Scott P. Stop posting all these different things.

    Please just post the same thing over and over again, in the approved manner.
    Well, no, I wouldn't want to give him your gig.
    I die, I die! Transfixed by your rapier wit ....
  • viewcode said:

    Shortage of No Deal backers:

    Best prices - No Deal Brexit

    No (WA ratified, A50 extended or A50 revoked) 1/5
    Yes (UK leaves EU in 2019 without WA) 4/1

    Stuart, I'm going to be away from home for a few days and so cannot deal currency. In case the SHTF and I break out the canned food and shotguns, what are the best prices for No Deal in High Street bookmakers? (As opposed to fancy-dan online accounts). I think from the headlines that Johnson really is going to fuck it up and we really are going to have No Deal, so a bet might actually be a good idea.

    The old insurance bet. Not a bad plan in the circumstances.

    The only high street bookie quoting is PP (7/2), but that is their online price. Reality on the ground might be different.

    Let us know what you manage to find.
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    Remainers don’t like new deal ideas shock.

    This is surprising.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 4,920
    Scott_P said:
    This is starting to sound like the plot of a novel by Flann O'Brien.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 10,682
    eek said:

    It’s clear now the government is either monumentally stupid or has never been serious about getting a deal. Both are live possibilities. I incline to the second, just because no government could be that stupid. Could it?

    I think you may be underestimating this government. :wink:
    Can I choose both options?
    Now you mention it "...the government is either monumentally stupid and has never been serious about getting a deal" has the ring of truth about it.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 3,457
    Scott_P said:
    Omg that’s so funny . What’s he going to say , surrender act over and over again . And why on earth would you need anyone to testify . Is this his puppet masters idea ! This surely must rank even by recent standards as even too deranged for the current no 10 operation.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 10,682
    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers don’t like new deal ideas shock.

    This is surprising.

    You're now supporting a BINO deal then?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 1,497
    Chris said:

    ScottP has posted no fewer than 6 copy pastes from Twitter in this page of posts alone, with no attempt at commentary, elucidation, or engaging in discussion with other posters. Could you calm down please? PB isn't a retweet.

    Yes, Scott P. Stop posting all these different things.

    Please just post the same thing over and over again, in the approved manner.
    😄
  • Chris said:

    Scott_P said:
    So - Boris Johnson has been claiming that we need the threat of leaving without a deal, so that we can force the EU to make concessions (because they are terrified of No Deal, while he's not particularly bothered).

    And now that he's legally obliged to ask the EU for an extension, he's asking the EU to rule out giving an extension - so we can go back to threatening them with No Deal, which they are terrified of [etc].

    Is there any version of reality in which any of this makes any sense whatsoever?
    Being senile helps. Tory core vote.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 10,613

    spudgfsh said:

    Byronic said:

    There'd be a shortage of champers in the UK after a 60/40 vote.

    Not in England. You over-estimate the desire in England to stay linked to the Scots, after the first indyref, and Brexit. A large minority, maybe a majority of English people would quite happily say goodbye to Scotland and Edinburgh's perceived drag on the English treasury.

    I am not one of them. I am a convinced English unionist and a happy Briton, I don't want Scotland to go, but I can see the polls on English perceptions, and I can sense the mood around me.
    There's a growing sense of English identity in a fashion which Scotland and Wales have always had. There is very little left that actually fosters a British identity anymore. Probably only the olympics?
    It's the same F-ing Island as someone once famously (to me at least) stated on PB.

    We don't need to go on marches every week like the Yessers.
    It's the Unionists that march (sometimes several times) every week round my bit, and they seem to have a deep, unnatural attachment to a part of another island.
    Glasgow is a sectarian hell-hole. It's your choice to live there. Although I admit the locals were quite friendly for the couple of pints I've had there (Blur concert)
    A fine way to describe your fellow Unionists. However as ever I'm happy to reduce your ignorance about the country in which you live.
    Glasgow voted Yes dipshit. And I'd say it's the separatists of that city that have a greater affinity to another island given the football I watch.
    Not the ones who have nasty sectarian avatars then?
    You still banging on about the Glorious Revolution again? It was one of the greatest moments in our history - I hope you're objecting on some kind of jacobite ground.
    It was the moment when the rightful king as appointed by God was overthrown after much bloodshed by a Dutch usurper underwritten by traitorously nobility, who then rewrote history to say that it was all ice cream and jelly tots.

    (Incidentally I noted your statement earlier about missing the vote. If you are now in stable accommodation you can get a postal vote, which takes the edge right off and makes things a shit-ton easier)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,451
    nico67 said:

    Omg that’s so funny . What’s he going to say , surrender act over and over again . And why on earth would you need anyone to testify . Is this his puppet masters idea ! This surely must rank even by recent standards as even too deranged for the current no 10 operation.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 9,003
    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers don’t like new deal ideas shock.

    This is surprising.

    I know. And I was so sure they were going to carefully weigh up the merits of said plan before passing judgement.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 10,682

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers don’t like new deal ideas shock.

    This is surprising.

    I know. And I was so sure they were going to carefully weigh up the merits of said plan before passing judgement.
    You mean like the ERG did with May's deal?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 3,457
    The EU aren’t stupid . They know there’s a bunch of ERG nutjobs that would love to leave with no deal so ruling out an extension gives them a free pass.
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers don’t like new deal ideas shock.

    This is surprising.

    You're now supporting a BINO deal then?
    Anything less than war on Belgium is a sell out or something.

  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,122
    Scott_P said:
    Can you imagine the response if the EU told us to do this?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 31,460
    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers don’t like new deal ideas shock.

    This is surprising.

    We assess them not on a like-dislike scale, but a despair-mirth gradient.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 23,191
    edited September 30

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:
    Matt Pritchett is a total and utter genius, he gets these right almost every time (which of course is why they pay him something like £3k a day). Genuine LOL.
    You say he gets paid HOW MUCH !!!!! £1 million a year! Really?
    £600k, plus eight weeks off, and he got a country house as a bonus one year.

    The publisher has told the editor that Matt leaving would be considered a resigning matter for said editor, and he has standing written offers from both the Mail and the Sun.

    He’s the highest paid employee at the Telegraph group, earns more than the editor.

    Nice work if you can get it!
    He is the one genuinely funny cartoonist in the media, most others are utter dross . . .

    But how many people actually pay for the Telegraph because of Matt? The cartoon can be seen online every day.
    The online archive of all the cartoons is probably worth something to the paper, but at this point they’re basically paying him not to leave, to see out his career with the paper.

    I love his simple style and witty captions, it’s the sort of thing that should be easy to replicate but isn’t, because he’s an absolute genius at taking two big stories from the day and finding a way to combine them in an amusing manner.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 1,497

    spudgfsh said:

    Byronic said:

    There'd better a shortage of champers in the UK after a 60/40 vote.

    Not in England. You over-estimate the desire in England to stay linked to the Scots, after the first indyref, and Brexit. A large minority, maybe a majority of English people would quite happily say goodbye to Scotland and Edinburgh's perceived drag on the English treasury.

    I am not one of them. I am a convinced English unionist and a happy Briton, I don't want Scotland to go, but I can see the polls on English perceptions, and I can sense the mood around me.
    There's a growing sense of English identity in a fashion which Scotland and Wales have always had. There is very little left that actually fosters a British identity anymore. Probably only the olympics?
    It's the same F-ing Island as someone once famously (to me at least) stated on PB.

    We don't need to go on marches every week like the Yessers.
    It's the Unionists that march (sometimes several times) every week round my bit, and they seem to have a deep, unnatural attachment to a part of another island.
    Glasgow is a sectarian hell-hole. It's your choice to live there. Although I admit the locals were quite friendly for the couple of pints I've had there (Blur concert)
    A fine way to describe your fellow Unionists. However as ever I'm happy to reduce your ignorance about the country in which you live.
    Glasgow voted Yes dipshit. And I'd say it's the separatists of that city that have a greater affinity to another island given the football I watch.
    Not the ones who have nasty sectarian avatars then?
    You still banging on about the Glorious Revolution again? It was one of the greatest moments in our history - I hope you're objecting on some kind of jacobite ground.
    Nope. I’m objecting on the basis that that image is sectarian iconography, as you know full well, as does the owner of the avatar.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,451

    I know. And I was so sure they were going to carefully weigh up the merits of said plan before passing judgement.

    Let's wait for the DUP response.

    That's bound to be measured...
  • viewcode said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Byronic said:

    There'd be a shortage of champers in the UK after a 60/40 vote.

    Not in England. You over-estimate the desire in England to stay linked to the Scots, after the first indyref, and Brexit. A large minority, maybe a majority of English people would quite happily say goodbye to Scotland and Edinburgh's perceived drag on the English treasury.

    I am not one of them. I am a convinced English unionist and a happy Briton, I don't want Scotland to go, but I can see the polls on English perceptions, and I can sense the mood around me.
    There's a growing sense of English identity in a fashion which Scotland and Wales have always had. There is very little left that actually fosters a British identity anymore. Probably only the olympics?
    It's the same F-ing Island as someone once famously (to me at least) stated on PB.

    We don't need to go on marches every week like the Yessers.
    It's the Unionists that march (sometimes several times) every week round my bit, and they seem to have a deep, unnatural attachment to a part of another island.
    Glasgow is a sectarian hell-hole. It's your choice to live there. Although I admit the locals were quite friendly for the couple of pints I've had there (Blur concert)
    SNIPu live.
    Glasgow voted Yes dipshit. And I'd say it's the separatists of that city that have a greater affinity to another island given the football I watch.
    Not the ones who have nasty sectarian avatars then?
    You still banging on about the Glorious Revolution again? It was one of the greatest moments in our history - I hope you're objecting on some kind of jacobite ground.
    It was the moment when the rightful king as appointed by God was overthrown after much bloodshed by a Dutch usurper underwritten by traitorously nobility, who then rewrote history to say that it was all ice cream and jelly tots.

    (Incidentally I noted your statement earlier about missing the vote. If you are now in stable accommodation you can get a postal vote, which takes the edge right off and makes things a shit-ton easier)
    Thanks for the postal voting tip - I was aware of this option though.

    I've always been pro-glorious revolution. It's one of the (if not thee) foundations of our current democracy.
  • ScottP has posted no fewer than 6 copy pastes from Twitter in this page of posts alone, with no attempt at commentary, elucidation, or engaging in discussion with other posters. Could you calm down please? PB isn't a retweet.

    I find them mostly informative, to be honest. More useful than lengthy discussions on which PM has the fittest wife (a live issue in the 21st century, who knew!) or hearing for the Nth time how we voted to leave and we should just leave and we would have left except for the Remoaners and the Labour Party and the EU and it's not fair and I don't like democracy anymore I am so angry etc etc etc.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 21,554
    viewcode said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Byronic said:

    There'd be a shortage of champers in the UK after a 60/40 vote.

    Not in England. You over-estimate the desire in England to stay linked to the Scots, after the first

    I am not one of them. I am a convinced English unionist and a happy Briton, I don't want Scotland to go, but I can see the polls on English perceptions, and I can sense the mood around me.
    There's a growing sense of English identity in a fashion which Scotland and Wales have always had. There is very little left that actually fosters a British identity anymore. Probably only the olympics?
    It's the same F-ing Island as someone once famously (to me at least) stated on PB.

    We don't need to go on marches every week like the Yessers.
    It's the Unionists that march (sometimes several times) every week round my bit, and they seem to have a deep, unnatural attachment to a part of another island.
    Glasgow is a sectarian hell-hole. It's your choice to live there. Although I admit the locals were quite friendly for the couple of pints I've had there (Blur concert)
    A fine way to describe your fellow Unionists. However as ever I'm happy to reduce your ignorance about the country in which you live.
    Glasgow voted Yes dipshit. And I'd say it's the separatists of that city that have a greater affinity to another island given the football I watch.
    Not the ones who have nasty sectarian avatars then?
    You still banging on about the Glorious Revolution again? It was one of the greatest moments in our history - I hope you're objecting on some kind of jacobite ground.
    It was the moment when the rightful king as appointed by God was overthrown after much bloodshed by a Dutch usurper underwritten by traitorously nobility, who then rewrote history to say that it was all ice cream and jelly tots.

    (Incidentally I noted your statement earlier about missing the vote. If you are now in stable accommodation you can get a postal vote, which takes the edge right off and makes things a shit-ton easier)
    True. It is one of the most remarkable rewritings of history. The Dutch landed an army and everything, ready to take the country by force. Yet we are taught at school that the last successful invasion was in 1066.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 64,210
    edited September 30
    Scott_P said:
    Fine by Boris, he can say he put forward plans to avoid the backstop, the EU rejected them, so blame them for No Deal (though if he wins a Tory majority and can dump the DUP I suspect he will still go for a NI only backstop)
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 3,457
    Will the UN be patrolling the buffer zone ?

    The EU should tell Bozo to do one !
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 10,613

    viewcode said:

    Shortage of No Deal backers:

    Best prices - No Deal Brexit

    No (WA ratified, A50 extended or A50 revoked) 1/5
    Yes (UK leaves EU in 2019 without WA) 4/1

    Stuart, I'm going to be away from home for a few days and so cannot deal currency. In case the SHTF and I break out the canned food and shotguns, what are the best prices for No Deal in High Street bookmakers? (As opposed to fancy-dan online accounts). I think from the headlines that Johnson really is going to fuck it up and we really are going to have No Deal, so a bet might actually be a good idea.

    The old insurance bet. Not a bad plan in the circumstances.

    The only high street bookie quoting is PP (7/2), but that is their online price. Reality on the ground might be different.

    Let us know what you manage to find.
    Thank you.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 10,682
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Fine by Boris, he can say he put forward plans to avoid the backstop, the EU rejected them, so blame them for No Deal (though if he wins a majority and can dump the DUP I suspect he will still go for a NI only backstop)
    Is that before or after the NI referendum you were telling us about? :wink:
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    edited September 30

    spudgfsh said:

    Byronic said:

    There'd better a shortage of champers in the UK after a 60/40 vote.

    Not in England. You over-estimate the desire in England to stay linked to the Scots, after the first indyref, and Brexit. A large minority, maybe a majority of English people would quite happily say goodbye to Scotland and Edinburgh's perceived drag on the English treasury.

    I am not one of them. I am a convinced English unionist and a happy Briton, I don't want Scotland to go, but I can see the polls on English perceptions, and I can sense the mood around me.
    There's a growing sense of English identity in a fashion which Scotland and Wales have always had. There is very little left that actually fosters a British identity anymore. Probably only the olympics?
    It's the same F-ing Island as someone once famously (to me at least) stated on PB.

    We don't need to go on marches every week like the Yessers.
    It's the Unionists that march (sometimes several times) every week round my bit, and they seem to have a deep, unnatural attachment to a part of another island.
    Glasgow is a sectarian hell-hole. It's your choice to live there. Although I admit the locals were quite friendly for the couple of pints I've had there (Blur concert)
    A fine way to describe your fellow Unionists. However as ever I'm happy to reduce your ignorance about the country in which you live.
    Glasgow voted Yes dipshit. And I'd say it's the separatists of that city that have a greater affinity to another island given the football I watch.
    Not the ones who have nasty sectarian avatars then?
    You still banging on about the Glorious Revolution again? It was one of the greatest moments in our history - I hope you're objecting on some kind of jacobite ground.
    Nope. I’m objecting on the basis that that image is sectarian iconography, as you know full well, as does the owner of the avatar.
    https://images.app.goo.gl/jRGRFJ4R99E3yzGV6
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 9,003

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers don’t like new deal ideas shock.

    This is surprising.

    I know. And I was so sure they were going to carefully weigh up the merits of said plan before passing judgement.
    You mean like the ERG did with May's deal?
    Didn't know you aspired to their behaviour.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,488
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Fine by Boris, he can say he put forward plans to avoid the backstop, the EU rejected them, so blame them for No Deal (though if he wins a majority and can dump the DUP I suspect he will still go for a NI only backstop)
    No deal is unlawful without parliamentary approval remember.
  • spudgfsh said:

    Byronic said:

    There'd better a shortage of champers in the UK after a 60/40 vote.

    Not in England. You over-estimate the desire in England to stay linked to the Scots, after the first indyref, and Brexit. A large minority, maybe a majority of English people would quite happily say goodbye to Scotland and Edinburgh's perceived drag on the English treasury.

    I am not one of them. I am a convinced English unionist and a happy Briton, I don't want Scotland to go, but I can see the polls on English perceptions, and I can sense the mood around me.
    There's a growing sense of English identity in a fashion which Scotland and Wales have always had. There is very little left that actually fosters a British identity anymore. Probably only the olympics?
    It's the same F-ing Island as someone once famously (to me at least) stated on PB.

    We don't need to go on marches every week like the Yessers.
    It's the Unionists that march (sometimes several times) every week round my bit, and they seem to have a deep, unnatural attachment to a part of another island.
    Glasgow is a sectarian hell-hole. It's your choice to live there. Although I admit the locals were quite friendly for the couple of pints I've had there (Blur concert)
    A fine way to describe your fellow Unionists. However as ever I'm happy to reduce your ignorance about the country in which you live.
    Glasgow voted Yes dipshit. And I'd say it's the separatists of that city that have a greater affinity to another island given the football I watch.
    Not the ones who have nasty sectarian avatars then?
    You still banging on about the Glorious Revolution again? It was one of the greatest moments in our history - I hope you're objecting on some kind of jacobite ground.
    Nope. I’m objecting on the basis that that image is sectarian iconography, as you know full well, as does the owner of the avatar.
    You sound like the type that would object to Cromwell as well. As the internet meme goes- Deal with it
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 21,554
    Sandpit said:

    AndyJS said:

    ITV News: there won't be a no confidence vote this week.

    LOL, so they voted down a recess last week for the Tory conference, but now can’t be bothered to make a nuisance of themselves when it’s on. Surely the whole point was to engineer the spectacle of half the cabinet having to use trains, planes and automobiles to rush back to London in the middle of their own conference?

    What’s the point of the Opposition?

    It is encouraging that they are giving some thought to timing, rather than being goaded into acting too early
  • AndyJS said:

    Scott_P said:
    Didn't realise Julia Giddard was still Australian PM.
    She is in the parallel universe where Chirac's funeral hasn't yet taken place.
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 4,920

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers don’t like new deal ideas shock.

    This is surprising.

    I know. And I was so sure they were going to carefully weigh up the merits of said plan before passing judgement.
    What are we meant to be weighing up the merits of? It's a bit difficult to keep up:
    (1) Johnson explaining to the Supreme Court that the Benn Act is illegal and that parliament ought to be locked up.
    (2) Johnson begging the EU to rule out an extension so that he can terrify them with the prospect of No Deal.
    (3) No customs checks at the Irish border. Customs checks near the Irish border. Or at the point of origin. Or maybe in mid air. Or underground.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,122

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:
    Matt Pritchett is a total and utter genius, he gets these right almost every time (which of course is why they pay him something like £3k a day). Genuine LOL.
    You say he gets paid HOW MUCH !!!!! £1 million a year! Really?
    £600k, plus eight weeks off, and he got a country house as a bonus one year.

    The publisher has told the editor that Matt leaving would be considered a resigning matter for said editor, and he has standing written offers from both the Mail and the Sun.

    He’s the highest paid employee at the Telegraph group, earns more than the editor.

    Nice work if you can get it!
    He is the one genuinely funny cartoonist in the media, most others are utter dross . . .

    But how many people actually pay for the Telegraph because of Matt? The cartoon can be seen online every day.
    I think for people who are already subscribers/daily buyers of the paper I could see the Matt cartoon being something they look forward to seeing. If it went, so would they. It may not have occurred to them that they could see it online, or they haven't had the nudge that would knock them out of their current habit and into a new one.

    So it probably makes a lot more sense for the Telegraph to pay him loads of money then it would be for a different newspaper to poach him.
  • TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers don’t like new deal ideas shock.

    This is surprising.

    “Customs Clearance Centres”. The clown equivalent of the Cones Hotline. With a bit of added sparkle.
  • HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Fine by Boris, he can say he put forward plans to avoid the backstop, the EU rejected them, so blame them for No Deal (though if he wins a Tory majority and can dump the DUP I suspect he will still go for a NI only backstop)

    Yep, this is all about being able to blame the EU. Johnson has been lying to the British people from the get-go. His big problem is that there can be no election before either No Deal or an extension now, when he was planning for an October poll.

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,488
    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
  • To be fair to Johnson, this was the standard Leave line in 2016.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 9,003

    Scott_P said:
    Can you imagine the response if the EU told us to do this?
    These people committed their crimes in Syria, surely they should face trial there?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 1,955
    edited September 30
    "Lib Dems block cross-party plan to install Corbyn as PM if Johnson defeated over no-deal

    Jo Swinson refuses to back the Labour leader if Boris Johnson is defeated in a vote of no confidence to prevent no-deal.

    Ms Swinson, who declined to be interviewed by Sky News alongside the other leaders, has said she would only support a compromise candidate for PM like Tory grandee Kenneth Clarke or Labour veteran Dame Margaret Beckett."

    https://news.sky.com/story/lib-dems-block-cross-party-plan-to-install-corbyn-as-pm-if-johnson-defeated-over-no-deal-11824055
  • ChrisChris Posts: 4,920

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Fine by Boris, he can say he put forward plans to avoid the backstop, the EU rejected them, so blame them for No Deal (though if he wins a majority and can dump the DUP I suspect he will still go for a NI only backstop)
    Is that before or after the NI referendum you were telling us about? :wink:
    Don't mock. There's still plenty of time to agree a deal, hold a general election, and then have a Northern Ireland referendum before the Benn deadline in three weeks time.

    Remember we have a genius in charge now.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 12,607
    Good to see a decision reversed when it was found to be a mistake.
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    I hear Boris is also planning miles of barbed wire at Folkestone and a French passport office on British soil to check all British trucks leaving the country.

    Oh wait we have that already.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,451

    To be fair to Johnson, this was the standard Leave line in 2016.

    And to be fair to all the Brexiteer who said we would never build any infrastructure AT the border, they were right.

    And that we wouldn't do it and Ireland wouldn't do it. Nobody guessed both would do it...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 64,210

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Fine by Boris, he can say he put forward plans to avoid the backstop, the EU rejected them, so blame them for No Deal (though if he wins a majority and can dump the DUP I suspect he will still go for a NI only backstop)
    Is that before or after the NI referendum you were telling us about? :wink:
    That requires a Tory majority, as does a NI only backstop, otherwise the DUP will block both
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,488
    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
  • spudgfsh said:

    Byronic said:

    There'd better a shortage of champers in the UK after a 60/40 vote.

    Not in England. You over-estimate the desire in England to stay linked to the Scots, after the first indyref, and Brexit. A large minority, maybe a majority of English people would quite happily say goodbye to Scotland and Edinburgh's perceived drag on the English treasury.

    I am not one of them. I am a convinced English unionist and a happy Briton, I don't want Scotland to go, but I can see the polls on English perceptions, and I can sense the mood around me.
    There's a growing sense of English identity in a fashion which Scotland and Wales have always had. There is very little left that actually fosters a British identity anymore. Probably only the olympics?
    It's the same F-ing Island as someone once famously (to me at least) stated on PB.

    We don't need to go on marches every week like the Yessers.
    It's the Unionists that march (sometimes several times) every week round my bit, and they seem to have a deep, unnatural attachment to a part of another island.
    Glasgow is a sectarian hell-hole. It's your choice to live there. Although I admit the locals were quite friendly for the couple of pints I've had there (Blur concert)
    A fine way to describe your fellow Unionists. However as ever I'm happy to reduce your ignorance about the country in which you live.
    Glasgow voted Yes dipshit. And I'd say it's the separatists of that city that have a greater affinity to another island given the football I watch.
    Not the ones who have nasty sectarian avatars then?
    You still banging on about the Glorious Revolution again? It was one of the greatest moments in our history - I hope you're objecting on some kind of jacobite ground.
    Nope. I’m objecting on the basis that that image is sectarian iconography, as you know full well, as does the owner of the avatar.
    Come on, I think it's nice that Loyalists venerate someone who had the backing of the Pope.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 3,457
    TGOHF2 said:

    I hear Boris is also planning miles of barbed wire at Folkestone and a French passport office on British soil to check all British trucks leaving the country.

    Oh wait we have that already.

    What a ridiculous post .

    Leavers just happy to trash peace in NI and seem incapable of understanding the situation over there .

  • Scott_P said:
    Can you imagine the response if the EU told us to do this?
    Exactly the same as the response we should be giving the Americans now. Though perhaps we could be a little more polite to the EU given their proximity to the crisis.
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    nico67 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    I hear Boris is also planning miles of barbed wire at Folkestone and a French passport office on British soil to check all British trucks leaving the country.

    Oh wait we have that already.

    What a ridiculous post .

    Leavers just happy to trash peace in NI and seem incapable of understanding the situation over there .

    Yes we wouldn’t want the drug smugglers inconvenienced by Brexit would we.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 12,607
    edited September 30
    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    You’re on silly duty tonight. Not sure the Irish should be asked to dig us out of the mess we got ourselves into entirely by ourselves.
  • IanB2 said:

    viewcode said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Byronic said:

    There'd be a shortage of champers in the UK after a 60/40 vote.

    Not in England. You over-estimate the desire in England to stay linked to the Scots, after the first

    I am not one of them. I am a convinced English unionist and a happy Briton, I don't want Scotland to go, but I can see the polls on English perceptions, and I can sense the mood around me.
    There's a growing sense of English identity in a fashion which Scotland and Wales have always had. There is very little left that actually fosters a British identity anymore. Probably only the olympics?
    It's the same F-ing Island as someone once famously (to me at least) stated on PB.

    We don't need to go on marches every week like the Yessers.
    It's the Unionists that march (sometimes several times) every week round my bit, and they seem to have a deep, unnatural attachment to a part of another island.
    Glasgow is a sectarian hell-hole. It's your choice to live there. Although I admit the locals were quite friendly for the couple of pints I've had there (Blur concert)
    A fine way to describe your fellow Unionists. However as ever I'm happy to reduce your ignorance about the country in which you live.
    Glasgow voted Yes dipshit. And I'd say it's the separatists of that city that have a greater affinity to another island given the football I watch.
    Not the ones who have nasty sectarian avatars then?
    You still banging on about the Glorious Revolution again? It was one of the greatest moments in our history - I hope you're objecting on some kind of jacobite ground.
    It was the moment when the rightful king as appointed by God was overthrown after much bloodshed by a Dutch usurper underwritten by traitorously nobility, who then rewrote history to say that it was all ice cream and jelly tots.

    (Incidentally I noted your statement earlier about missing the vote. If you are now in stable accommodation you can get a postal vote, which takes the edge right off and makes things a shit-ton easier)
    True. It is one of the most remarkable rewritings of history. The Dutch landed an army and everything, ready to take the country by force. Yet we are taught at school that the last successful invasion was in 1066.
    1066 is a a key myth in the establishment of the English nation.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 4,920
    Jonathan said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    Your on silly duty tonight.
    What amazes me is how many people are on permanent silly duty these days.

    Is there anything Boris Johnson could do that would be too stupid for them to defend? Why is it? Has he got pornographic photos of them or something? Has he been squeezing their thighs and driving them into an irrational sexual frenzy?
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,122
    edited September 30
    TGOHF2 said:

    I hear Boris is also planning miles of barbed wire at Folkestone and a French passport office on British soil to check all British trucks leaving the country.

    Oh wait we have that already.

    Just as well the people of Calais don't still hold a grudge against the rest of France for separating them from the English Crown.
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    edited September 30


    1066 is a a key myth in the establishment of the English nation.

    1066 was one of the worst events in English history - the import of a brutal feudal system to disenfranchise the common man.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 9,003

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,732
    Someone put down an SO24 and demand to see the papers on this, hurry hurry hurry!
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 926
    The Commission won't bite. The risk that the UK doesn't man its posts, effectively moving the border ten miles into ROI, is too high.

    Of course, they might think they can get ten miles of territory.

    But the main thing is that Scott stops treating PB as a backup version of FBPE Twitter.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,488

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.
    We already solved this problem. Its called the European Union.
  • Scott_P said:
    “Traditional voters” is a euphemism for “the elderly”.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,122

    IanB2 said:

    viewcode said:

    It was the moment when the rightful king as appointed by God was overthrown after much bloodshed by a Dutch usurper underwritten by traitorously nobility, who then rewrote history to say that it was all ice cream and jelly tots.

    (Incidentally I noted your statement earlier about missing the vote. If you are now in stable accommodation you can get a postal vote, which takes the edge right off and makes things a shit-ton easier)

    True. It is one of the most remarkable rewritings of history. The Dutch landed an army and everything, ready to take the country by force. Yet we are taught at school that the last successful invasion was in 1066.
    1066 is a a key myth in the establishment of the English nation.
    It's more important for the Empire than for the nation, in that the way in which the Norman invasion - and indeed the Roman occupation - are celebrated is as though to say that invasion is good for a place, and therefore places invaded by the English (and then later the British) should be grateful for it.
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584

    Someone put down an SO24 and demand to see the papers on this, hurry hurry hurry!

    Sounds like more details coming this week - perhaps wait and see.

    Perhaps even read something longer than a knee jerk tweet ...
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 2,684
    Scott_P said:
    Bomb the camp, and kill them. They are all dronable targets, so it is just a case of doing en masse what we do to the individual.
  • TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.
    “It would be helpful”. Beyond parody.
  • TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.

    The UK government is suggesting a hard border 10 miles from the actual border. ‪The simple truth is that Brexit is not compatible with the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border in Ireland runs counter to promises made to the nationalist community, while a hard border in the Irish Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 9,003

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.
    We already solved this problem. Its called the European Union.
    Well, now we have a new situation, that requires a new solution. It really is that simple.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 4,920

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.
    "Gargantuan" in the original Rabelaisian sense, presumably? "... a young giant, reduced to laughable insanity by an education at the hands of paternal ignorance, old crones and syphilitic professors ..."
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 798


    No deal is unlawful without parliamentary approval remember.

    Well the remainers have one of two options then...

    1. The vote through whatever deal is brought back

    Or,

    2. Sign the surrender letter before a GE


    They need to make a decision about which it is because they are doing one of them.
  • Chris said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.
    "Gargantuan" in the original Rabelaisian sense, presumably? "... a young giant, reduced to laughable insanity by an education at the hands of paternal ignorance, old crones and syphilitic professors ..."

    The latest proposals involve three borders instead of one and a huge buffer zone that will need to be heavily policed if it is to have any meaning whatsoever. It is not a serious proposal. As HYUFD correctly observes, it’s a means to try to blame the EU for No Deal.

  • TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.

    The UK government is suggesting a hard border 10 miles from the actual border. ‪The simple truth is that Brexit is not compatible with the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border in Ireland runs counter to promises made to the nationalist community, while a hard border in the Irish Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    There is already a border in Ireland across which there are different governments, different heads of state, different currencies, different legal systems, different tax systems, different speed limits and different football teams.

    How curious all that is tolerable yet other things are deemed not to be.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,488

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.
    We already solved this problem. Its called the European Union.
    Well, now we have a new situation, that requires a new solution. It really is that simple.
    I know right. We’re still waiting for the incompetent government to propose something suitable.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 1,497

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.
    Northern Ireland voted to remain in the EU.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 2,684

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.

    The UK government is suggesting a hard border 10 miles from the actual border. ‪The simple truth is that Brexit is not compatible with the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border in Ireland runs counter to promises made to the nationalist community, while a hard border in the Irish Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    Therefore, Brexit is impossible, and we have - for some time - not been sovereign, in the most fundamental way, because europhile traitors handed over most of our sovereignty, without our permission.

    It would be nice if the europhile bien pensants occasionally acknowledged this undeniable consequence of our position, as they describe it.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,275
    Byronic said:

    Scott_P said:
    Bomb the camp, and kill them. They are all dronable targets, so it is just a case of doing en masse what we do to the individual.
    And never mind the fact that the camp contains hundreds and hundreds of innocent people. You know, humans who've done nothing wrong?
This discussion has been closed.