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  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,274
    Noo said:

    Byronic said:

    Scott_P said:
    Bomb the camp, and kill them. They are all dronable targets, so it is just a case of doing en masse what we do to the individual.
    And never mind the fact that the camp contains hundreds and hundreds of innocent people. You know, humans who've done nothing wrong?
    I was satirising the American (and sometimes British) fondness for droning.

    I think the phrase you're looking for is WHOOSH.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,795
    SunnyJim said:


    No deal is unlawful without parliamentary approval remember.

    Well the remainers have one of two options then...

    1. The vote through whatever deal is brought back

    Or,

    2. Sign the surrender letter before a GE


    They need to make a decision about which it is because they are doing one of them.
    What you on about?

    1. I doubt Boris will even bring back a deal.

    2. The sitting PM will formally request an extension its as simple as that. If that is Boris then it will be him.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,274

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.

    The UK government is suggesting a hard border 10 miles from the actual border. ‪The simple truth is that Brexit is not compatible with the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border in Ireland runs counter to promises made to the nationalist community, while a hard border in the Irish Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    There is already a border in Ireland across which there are different governments, different heads of state, different currencies, different legal systems, different tax systems, different speed limits and different football teams.

    How curious all that is tolerable yet other things are deemed not to be.
    Because Remainers are leveraging this to keep Britain in the EU. As you know, I think,
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.
    We already solved this problem. Its called the European Union.
    Well, now we have a new situation, that requires a new solution. It really is that simple.
    We broke it, we have to fix it.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 9,240

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.
    Northern Ireland voted to remain in the EU.
    Irrelevant, as you know.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,795
    Byronic said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.

    The UK government is suggesting a hard border 10 miles from the actual border. ‪The simple truth is that Brexit is not compatible with the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border in Ireland runs counter to promises made to the nationalist community, while a hard border in the Irish Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    Therefore, Brexit is impossible, and we have - for some time - not been sovereign, in the most fundamental way, because europhile traitors handed over most of our sovereignty, without our permission.

    It would be nice if the europhile bien pensants occasionally acknowledged this undeniable consequence of our position, as they describe it.
    No it isn’t. Northern Ireland just needs to be treated differently.
  • Noo said:

    Byronic said:

    Scott_P said:
    Bomb the camp, and kill them. They are all dronable targets, so it is just a case of doing en masse what we do to the individual.
    And never mind the fact that the camp contains hundreds and hundreds of innocent people. You know, humans who've done nothing wrong?
    The Gran Reserva Ghengis has arisen.
  • TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.

    The UK government is suggesting a hard border 10 miles from the actual border. ‪The simple truth is that Brexit is not compatible with the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border in Ireland runs counter to promises made to the nationalist community, while a hard border in the Irish Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    There is already a border in Ireland across which there are different governments, different heads of state, different currencies, different legal systems, different tax systems, different speed limits and different football teams.

    How curious all that is tolerable yet other things are deemed not to be.

    It is tolerable because it is what people are used to. They are not used to a customs border and one that will significantly restrict the free movement of goods and services. I am not sure why you find that curious. Surely, it’s quite obvious that making everyday lives much harder to live is not going to be popular.

  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 1,885

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.
    Northern Ireland voted to remain in the EU.
    You and your facts!!!!! Like they matter to committed Brexiteers.....

    :D:D
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 31,483
    Byronic said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.

    The UK government is suggesting a hard border 10 miles from the actual border. ‪The simple truth is that Brexit is not compatible with the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border in Ireland runs counter to promises made to the nationalist community, while a hard border in the Irish Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    Therefore, Brexit is impossible, and we have - for some time - not been sovereign, in the most fundamental way, because europhile traitors handed over most of our sovereignty, without our permission.

    It would be nice if the europhile bien pensants occasionally acknowledged this undeniable consequence of our position, as they describe it.
    But it’s the Good Friday Agreement that’s the root of this constraint on sovereignty, not EU membership. England is not sovereign because it is in a union with other countries. It could regain sovereignty by giving up that union.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,795

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.
    Northern Ireland voted to remain in the EU.
    Irrelevant, as you know.
    Your glorious leader told us pre-referendum that the NI border would not change so it would be good if he listened to the will of the people.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Byronic said:

    Noo said:

    Byronic said:

    Scott_P said:
    Bomb the camp, and kill them. They are all dronable targets, so it is just a case of doing en masse what we do to the individual.
    And never mind the fact that the camp contains hundreds and hundreds of innocent people. You know, humans who've done nothing wrong?
    I was satirising the American (and sometimes British) fondness for droning.

    I think the phrase you're looking for is WHOOSH.
    Ok. I didn't detect the irony. I might have done had it come from someone other than you.
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  • TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.

    The UK government is suggesting a hard border 10 miles from the actual border. ‪The simple truth is that Brexit is not compatible with the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border in Ireland runs counter to promises made to the nationalist community, while a hard border in the Irish Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    There is already a border in Ireland across which there are different governments, different heads of state, different currencies, different legal systems, different tax systems, different speed limits and different football teams.

    How curious all that is tolerable yet other things are deemed not to be.

    It is tolerable because it is what people are used to. They are not used to a customs border and one that will significantly restrict the free movement of goods and services. I am not sure why you find that curious. Surely, it’s quite obvious that making everyday lives much harder to live is not going to be popular.

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,274

    Byronic said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.

    The UK government is suggesting a hard border 10 miles from the actual border. ‪The simple truth is that Brexit is not compatible with the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border in Ireland runs counter to promises made to the nationalist community, while a hard border in the Irish Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    Therefore, Brexit is impossible, and we have - for some time - not been sovereign, in the most fundamental way, because europhile traitors handed over most of our sovereignty, without our permission.

    It would be nice if the europhile bien pensants occasionally acknowledged this undeniable consequence of our position, as they describe it.
    But it’s the Good Friday Agreement that’s the root of this constraint on sovereignty, not EU membership. England is not sovereign because it is in a union with other countries. It could regain sovereignty by giving up that union.
    So the United Kingdom has to dissolve itself, if it legally wishes to leave the European Union.

    That's like a turnkey telling me I am entirely free, and can leave the prison, but leaving the prison means I must snap off an arm, and possibly a leg, because of the shackles, sorry.

    That is not freedom; we are no longer sovereign. We are worse off, in terms of sovereignty, than Scotland in the UK.

  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.

    The UK government is suggesting a hard border 10 miles from the actual border. ‪The simple truth is that Brexit is not compatible with the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border in Ireland runs counter to promises made to the nationalist community, while a hard border in the Irish Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    There is already a border in Ireland across which there are different governments, different heads of state, different currencies, different legal systems, different tax systems, different speed limits and different football teams.

    How curious all that is tolerable yet other things are deemed not to be.
    The border used to be even more visible and consequential. People weren't happy about that. There was a violent conflict. As part of the peace agreement that ended that conflict both sides compromised by accepting the continued existence of the border for some purposes, it being rubbed out for others (such as citizenship), and for the principle that it might cease to exist entirely in the future.

    Now one side is proposing to increase the prominence of the border unilaterally, for example by creating a barrier to trade by the imposition of customs. Can you not see how that might reasonably piss off the other side?
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,067



    What you on about?

    1. I doubt Boris will even bring back a deal.

    2. The sitting PM will formally request an extension its as simple as that. If that is Boris then it will be him.

    1. There will be a last chance deal for the remainers to reject with the awful optics for Labour that comes with that.

    2. When remainers reject the government will resign and Corbyn (in all likelihood) will have to sign the surrender letter just prior to a GE.


    Cummings has run rings round the remainers in parliament.


  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 9,240

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.

    The UK government is suggesting a hard border 10 miles from the actual border. ‪The simple truth is that Brexit is not compatible with the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border in Ireland runs counter to promises made to the nationalist community, while a hard border in the Irish Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    What the Government appears to be suggesting (I haven't read the detail - has anyone?) is the absence of a hard border, but facilities away from the border for commercial vehicles that need to be cleared through customs to get that clearance. Not sure about anyone else, but as far as I was concerned this is what was envisaged from the beginning. I'm genuinely surprised by the apoplectic response, but oh well.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 23,723

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  • Byronic said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.

    The UK government is suggesting a hard border 10 miles from the actual border. ‪The simple truth is that Brexit is not compatible with the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border in Ireland runs counter to promises made to the nationalist community, while a hard border in the Irish Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    Therefore, Brexit is impossible, and we have - for some time - not been sovereign, in the most fundamental way, because europhile traitors handed over most of our sovereignty, without our permission.

    It would be nice if the europhile bien pensants occasionally acknowledged this undeniable consequence of our position, as they describe it.

    The Good Friday Agreement was approved in referenda by the people of Northern Ireland and the Republic. It can be revoked if the British government chooses.

  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,028
    Whatever we're expecting, the government is still expecting 31/10 to be brexit day - they have advertised it five times in the ad breaks in the film I'm watching.

    And since it's a film in which Rhianna has a cameo as a shape shifting alien, one can imagine they are going full spectrum here.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 25,194
    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.

    The UK government is suggesting a hard border 10 miles from the actual border. ‪The simple truth is that Brexit is not compatible with the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border in Ireland runs counter to promises made to the nationalist community, while a hard border in the Irish Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    Therefore, Brexit is impossible, and we have - for some time - not been sovereign, in the most fundamental way, because europhile traitors handed over most of our sovereignty, without our permission.

    It would be nice if the europhile bien pensants occasionally acknowledged this undeniable consequence of our position, as they describe it.
    But it’s the Good Friday Agreement that’s the root of this constraint on sovereignty, not EU membership. England is not sovereign because it is in a union with other countries. It could regain sovereignty by giving up that union.
    So the United Kingdom has to dissolve itself, if it legally wishes to leave the European Union.

    That's like a turnkey telling me I am entirely free, and can leave the prison, but leaving the prison means I must snap off an arm, and possibly a leg, because of the shackles, sorry.

    That is not freedom; we are no longer sovereign. We are worse off, in terms of sovereignty, than Scotland in the UK.

    Not a nice feeling is it
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,795
    edited September 30
    SunnyJim said:



    What you on about?

    1. I doubt Boris will even bring back a deal.

    2. The sitting PM will formally request an extension its as simple as that. If that is Boris then it will be him.

    1. There will be a last chance deal for the remainers to reject with the awful optics for Labour that comes with that.

    2. When remainers reject the government will resign and Corbyn (in all likelihood) will have to sign the surrender letter just prior to a GE.


    Cummings has run rings round the remainers in parliament.


    Who cares if Corbyn requests an extension? Boris would have just willingly given the marxist the nuclear codes. That’ll play well.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,274
    malcolmg said:

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.

    The UK government is suggesting a hard border 10 miles from the actual border. ‪The simple truth is that Brexit is not compatible with the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border in Ireland runs counter to promises made to the nationalist community, while a hard border in the Irish Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    Therefore, Brexit is impossible, and we have - for some time - not been sovereign, in the most fundamental way, because europhile traitors handed over most of our sovereignty, without our permission.

    It would be nice if the europhile bien pensants occasionally acknowledged this undeniable consequence of our position, as they describe it.
    But it’s the Good Friday Agreement that’s the root of this constraint on sovereignty, not EU membership. England is not sovereign because it is in a union with other countries. It could regain sovereignty by giving up that union.
    So the United Kingdom has to dissolve itself, if it legally wishes to leave the European Union.

    That's like a turnkey telling me I am entirely free, and can leave the prison, but leaving the prison means I must snap off an arm, and possibly a leg, because of the shackles, sorry.

    That is not freedom; we are no longer sovereign. We are worse off, in terms of sovereignty, than Scotland in the UK.

    Not a nice feeling is it
    No, it's awful. And it has given me a new insight into the mindset of Scot Nats, to be honest.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 23,723

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.

    The UK government is suggesting a hard border 10 miles from the actual border. ‪The simple truth is that Brexit is not compatible with the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border in Ireland runs counter to promises made to the nationalist community, while a hard border in the Irish Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    What the Government appears to be suggesting (I haven't read the detail - has anyone?) is the absence of a hard border, but facilities away from the border for commercial vehicles that need to be cleared through customs to get that clearance. Not sure about anyone else, but as far as I was concerned this is what was envisaged from the beginning. I'm genuinely surprised by the apoplectic response, but oh well.
    No matter what the proposal, the response would have been the same. The NI border isn’t a logistics problem, it’s a politics problem.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 1,885
    edited September 30

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?
    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned
  • TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.

    The UK government is suggesting a hard border 10 miles from the actual border. ‪The simple truth is that Brexit is not compatible with the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border in Ireland runs counter to promises made to the nationalist community, while a hard border in the Irish Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    There is already a border in Ireland across which there are different governments, different heads of state, different currencies, different legal systems, different tax systems, different speed limits and different football teams.

    How curious all that is tolerable yet other things are deemed not to be.
    The border used to be even more visible and consequential. People weren't happy about that. There was a violent conflict. As part of the peace agreement that ended that conflict both sides compromised by accepting the continued existence of the border for some purposes, it being rubbed out for others (such as citizenship), and for the principle that it might cease to exist entirely in the future.

    Now one side is proposing to increase the prominence of the border unilaterally, for example by creating a barrier to trade by the imposition of customs. Can you not see how that might reasonably piss off the other side?
    So are you saying violence is to be expected if one side is pissed off ?

    Does that apply to other groups in other countries if they don't get what they want ?

    And the Irish government increased the prominence of the border when it changed from mph to kmph.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 9,240
    Sandpit said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.

    The UK government is suggesting a hard border 10 miles from the actual border. ‪The simple truth is that Brexit is not compatible with the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border in Ireland runs counter to promises made to the nationalist community, while a hard border in the Irish Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    What the Government appears to be suggesting (I haven't read the detail - has anyone?) is the absence of a hard border, but facilities away from the border for commercial vehicles that need to be cleared through customs to get that clearance. Not sure about anyone else, but as far as I was concerned this is what was envisaged from the beginning. I'm genuinely surprised by the apoplectic response, but oh well.
    No matter what the proposal, the response would have been the same. The NI border isn’t a logistics problem, it’s a politics problem.
    Quite. But it's right that the UK is making the effort.
  • Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.

    The UK government is suggesting a hard border 10 miles from the actual border. ‪The simple truth is that Brexit is not compatible with the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border in Ireland runs counter to promises made to the nationalist community, while a hard border in the Irish Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    Therefore, Brexit is impossible, and we have - for some time - not been sovereign, in the most fundamental way, because europhile traitors handed over most of our sovereignty, without our permission.

    It would be nice if the europhile bien pensants occasionally acknowledged this undeniable consequence of our position, as they describe it.
    But it’s the Good Friday Agreement that’s the root of this constraint on sovereignty, not EU membership. England is not sovereign because it is in a union with other countries. It could regain sovereignty by giving up that union.
    So the United Kingdom has to dissolve itself, if it legally wishes to leave the European Union.

    That's like a turnkey telling me I am entirely free, and can leave the prison, but leaving the prison means I must snap off an arm, and possibly a leg, because of the shackles, sorry.

    That is not freedom; we are no longer sovereign. We are worse off, in terms of sovereignty, than Scotland in the UK.

    No, the UK government could revoke the Good Friday Agreement’s legal provisions in UK law. It is not compatible with the Brexit the government envisages.

  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Byronic said:

    So the United Kingdom has to dissolve itself, if it legally wishes to leave the European Union.

    That's like a turnkey telling me I am entirely free, and can leave the prison, but leaving the prison means I must snap off an arm, and possibly a leg, because of the shackles, sorry.

    That is not freedom; we are no longer sovereign. We are worse off, in terms of sovereignty, than Scotland in the UK.

    The UK is free to leave the EU intact.
    But for domestic reasons it's a bad idea unless EITHER it can extract a concession from the EU that the EU is under treaty obligations to reject OR it leaves but stays within the SM/CU.

    The UK now needs to make a choice:
    1. don't leave at all,
    2. leave without a deal and disrupt NI,
    3. leave but stay closely aligned.

    They're all bad options for various reasons. Choose.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,795

    Sandpit said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.

    The UK government is suggesting a hard border 10 miles from the actual border. ‪The simple truth is that Brexit is not compatible with the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border in Ireland runs counter to promises made to the nationalist community, while a hard border in the Irish Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    What the Government appears to be suggesting (I haven't read the detail - has anyone?) is the absence of a hard border, but facilities away from the border for commercial vehicles that need to be cleared through customs to get that clearance. Not sure about anyone else, but as far as I was concerned this is what was envisaged from the beginning. I'm genuinely surprised by the apoplectic response, but oh well.
    No matter what the proposal, the response would have been the same. The NI border isn’t a logistics problem, it’s a politics problem.
    Quite. But it's right that the UK is making the effort.
    You’re a funny guy.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 3,332
    Tories coming across as slightly weird at their conference on BBC2. So no change there.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 1,885

    SunnyJim said:



    What you on about?

    1. I doubt Boris will even bring back a deal.

    2. The sitting PM will formally request an extension its as simple as that. If that is Boris then it will be him.

    1. There will be a last chance deal for the remainers to reject with the awful optics for Labour that comes with that.

    2. When remainers reject the government will resign and Corbyn (in all likelihood) will have to sign the surrender letter just prior to a GE.


    Cummings has run rings round the remainers in parliament.


    Who cares if Corbyn requests an extension? Boris would have just willingly given the marxist the nuclear codes. That’ll play well.
    Apparently, for many years, the codes were simply 0000 0000. These days they have probably been upgraded to 1234 5678 or "password"...
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,067


    Who cares if Corbyn requests an extension? Boris would have just willingly given the marxist the nuclear codes. That’ll play well.

    Who cares if it's Corbyn who requests the extension?

    Really?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 15,584
    edited September 30
    TGOHF2 said:
    A more appropriate question would be:

    Who do you think would make the least incapable PM ?
  • TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.

    The UK government is suggesting a hard border 10 miles from the actual border. ‪The simple truth is that Brexit is not compatible with the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border in Ireland runs counter to promises made to the nationalist community, while a hard border in the Irish Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    There is already a border in Ireland across which there are different governments, different heads of state, different currencies, different legal systems, different tax systems, different speed limits and different football teams.

    How curious all that is tolerable yet other things are deemed not to be.

    It is tolerable because it is what people are used to. They are not used to a customs border and one that will significantly restrict the free movement of goods and services. I am not sure why you find that curious. Surely, it’s quite obvious that making everyday lives much harder to live is not going to be popular.

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    I doubt anyone would claim that the current situation in NI is perfect. But it is a whole lot better than it was. Making it worse than it is now is understandably unpopular. I’m not sure why you find that curious.

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,795
    SunnyJim said:


    Who cares if Corbyn requests an extension? Boris would have just willingly given the marxist the nuclear codes. That’ll play well.

    Who cares if it's Corbyn who requests the extension?

    Really?
    Yes. Who cares? Boris will have failed in his quest to take Britain out of the EU by Oct 31. Maybe we’ll get a 2 year extension and this whole sorry mess can drift into nothingness.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 9,240


    No, the UK government could revoke the Good Friday Agreement’s legal provisions in UK law. It is not compatible with the Brexit the government envisages.

    Would you tell us where in the GFA that customs clearance centres are proscribed? You appear to be the expert.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 12,669
    Byronic said:


    So the United Kingdom has to dissolve itself, if it legally wishes to leave the European Union.

    That's like a turnkey telling me I am entirely free, and can leave the prison, but leaving the prison means I must snap off an arm, and possibly a leg, because of the shackles, sorry.

    That is not freedom; we are no longer sovereign. We are worse off, in terms of sovereignty, than Scotland in the UK.

    The UK could sovereignly repudiate the Good Friday Agreement, it's just that this would have serious downsides. The GFA was possible because both countries were in the EU, and it's hard to sustain without replicating some of what the EU did.

    So it's not so much "you must snap off an arm because of the shackles" as "you're free to leave your job, but you'll have to give back the company car". This might be a reasonable choice if it's a shitty job, but the complication is that when people voted to leave their job, they expected that they'd be able to keep the car.
  • Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,795
    edited September 30

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Reading the different numbers on the speedometer is so difficult. Oh no.
  • TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.

    The UK government is suggesting a hard border 10 miles from the actual border. ‪The simple truth is that Brexit is not compatible with the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border in Ireland runs counter to promises made to the nationalist community, while a hard border in the Irish Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    There is already a border in Ireland across which there are different governments, different heads of state, different currencies, different legal systems, different tax systems, different speed limits and different football teams.

    How curious all that is tolerable yet other things are deemed not to be.

    It is tolerable because it is what people are used to. They are not used to a customs border and one that will significantly restrict the free movement of goods and services. I am not sure why you find that curious. Surely, it’s quite obvious that making everyday lives much harder to live is not going to be popular.

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    I doubt anyone would claim that the current situation in NI is perfect. But it is a whole lot better than it was. Making it worse than it is now is understandably unpopular. I’m not sure why you find that curious.

    Yet the Irish government chose to make the situation worse by changing from mph to kmph.
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 151

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Reading the different numbers on the speedo is so difficult. Oh no.
    Ireland started metrication at the same time as us and actually followed us just like decimalisation, they just didn't get cold feet over a few angry market traders and traditional Tories.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,067
    edited September 30


    Yes. Who cares? Boris will have failed in his quest to take Britain out of the EU by Oct 31. Maybe we’ll get a 2 year extension and this whole sorry mess can drift into nothingness.

    Millions of Labour leavers will care that Corbyn requested the extension after his MPs voted down a last chance to leave.

    And the results of that will show when Labour are annihilated at the GE that will immediately follow.

    I'm actually genuinely surprised that remainers are still grasping at straws that have long since been blown away by Cummings.

  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Dyeds tip of the day for the next election. Montgomeryshire. Currently the Tories 143rd safest seat (target 174 on the defence list). Glyn Davies the MP not standing again and was liberal territory until Opik capitulated in 2010 (when it was Tory target 210)
    I can see the LDs retaking here and losing back Brecon and Radnor. Area was marginally more leave than average, strong liberal tradition
    As ever DYOR

  • No, the UK government could revoke the Good Friday Agreement’s legal provisions in UK law. It is not compatible with the Brexit the government envisages.

    Would you tell us where in the GFA that customs clearance centres are proscribed? You appear to be the expert.

    It involves a change to the current status of the border against the wishes of the nationalist and non-aligned communities. In the same way, putting a border in the Irish Sea against the wishes of the Unionist community would not be compatible with the GFA.

  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 5,353
    Where are the Ipsos MORI Voting Intention numbers?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 1,885
    MikeL said:

    Where are the Ipsos MORI Voting Intention numbers?

    Bottom drawer, left hand side, behind the whiskey bottle....
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 5,353
    edited September 30
    Laura Pidcock now 3rd Favourite for next Labour leader at 10 Back / 12 Lay.

    Ahead of Thornberry and Rayner.

    Behind only Starmer and Long-Bailey.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,795
    SunnyJim said:


    Yes. Who cares? Boris will have failed in his quest to take Britain out of the EU by Oct 31. Maybe we’ll get a 2 year extension and this whole sorry mess can drift into nothingness.

    Millions of Labour leavers will care that Corbyn requested the extension after his MPs voted down a last chance to leave.

    And the results of that will show when Labour are annihilated at the GE that will immediately follow.

    I'm actually genuinely surprised that remainers are still grasping at straws that have long since been blown away by Cummings.

    Who knows what an election will bring about? You certainly don’t.

    I note you’re still grasping at straws at this mythical ‘last minute’ deal which is rather laughable at the moment.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 2,996
    HM Government spying on an Irish nationalist's van when he is outside the UK is not the same as having different speed limits on different roads. We all know that!
  • TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.

    The UK government is suggesting a hard border 10 miles from the actual border. ‪The simple truth is that Brexit is not compatible with the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border in Ireland runs counter to promises made to the nationalist community, while a hard border in the Irish Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    There is already a border in Ireland across which there are different governments, different heads of state, different currencies, different legal systems, different tax systems, different speed limits and different football teams.

    How curious all that is tolerable yet other things are deemed not to be.

    It is tolerable because it is what people are used to be popular.

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    I doubt anyone would claim that the current situation in NI is perfect. But it is a whole lot better than it was. Making it worse than it is now is understandably unpopular. I’m not sure why you find that curious.

    Yet the Irish government chose to make the situation worse by changing from mph to kmph.

    My car gives speeds in MPH and KPH. I am not sure this is the killer argument you think it is.

  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 1,885
    edited September 30

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Seriously? Are you really that dense? Or are you just trolling?
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    EPG said:

    HM Government spying on an Irish nationalist's van when he is outside the UK is not the same as having different speed limits on different roads. We all know that!

    Chances are he’s an MI6 informer anyway..
  • TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Tough shit, that's not happening, NI is a part of the UK and the UK is leaving the EU.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,795

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Tough shit, that's not happening, NI is a part of the UK and the UK is leaving the EU.
    When? On Oct 31?
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    MikeL said:

    Where are the Ipsos MORI Voting Intention numbers?

    Bottom drawer, left hand side, behind the whiskey bottle....
    Whisky, please. Not whiskey. We do have SOME standards here..
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 2,403
    Scott_P said:
    So reading that article Johnson's hoping that at least 1 EU government will block an extension. It might cost a tiny fraction of the UK's budget contribution to buy off one of them. Malta?
  • Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Reading the different numbers on the speedometer is so difficult. Oh no.
    Bit difficult if the different numbers aren't even on the speedometer:

    Since 2005 all new cars sold in Ireland have speedometers that display only kilometres per hour

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_Ireland

    Now assuming that wiki is correct wouldn't that make selling an Irish car in the North a fair bit harder ?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 1,885


    Yet the Irish government chose to make the situation worse by changing from mph to kmph.

    My car gives speeds in MPH and KPH. I am not sure this is the killer argument you think it is.

    I presume he goes nowhere on the continent - or to sea where speeds are measured in knots, even in the UK (1kt = 1.15 mph)
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,067


    Who knows what an election will bring about? You certainly don’t.

    I note you’re still grasping at straws at this mythical ‘last minute’ deal which is rather laughable at the moment.

    If needed the exact copy of May's deal can come back but there will be lipstick popped on to it for presentational reasons of course...just to make the spin easier about the remain parliament rejecting the final opportunity to ensure the very thing they claim to be terrified of doesn't happen.

    Cummings is just humiliating the remainers in parliament now.

  • RH1992 said:

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Reading the different numbers on the speedo is so difficult. Oh no.
    Ireland started metrication at the same time as us and actually followed us just like decimalisation, they just didn't get cold feet over a few angry market traders and traditional Tories.
    What size shirt and trousers do you wear ?

    Perhaps you could point out which British politicians are advocating more metrication ?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,795
    SunnyJim said:


    Who knows what an election will bring about? You certainly don’t.

    I note you’re still grasping at straws at this mythical ‘last minute’ deal which is rather laughable at the moment.

    If needed the exact copy of May's deal can come back but there will be lipstick popped on to it for presentational reasons of course...just to make the spin easier about the remain parliament rejecting the final opportunity to ensure the very thing they claim to be terrified of doesn't happen.

    Cummings is just humiliating the remainers in parliament now.

    What lipstick?
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,274

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunateg and visiting either side.

    Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    There is already a border in Ireland across which there are different governments, different heads of state, different currencies, different legal systems, different tax systems, different speed limits and different football teams.

    How curious all that is tolerable yet other things are deemed not to be.

    It is tolerable because it is what people are used to. They are not used to a customs border and one that will significantly restrict the free movement of goods and services. I am not sure why you find that curious. Surely, it’s quite obvious that making everyday lives much harder to live is not going to be popular.

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    I doubt anyone would claim that the current situation in NI is perfect. But it is a whole lot better than it was. Making it worse than it is now is understandably unpopular. I’m not sure why you find that curious.

    Yet the Irish government chose to make the situation worse by changing from mph to kmph.
    The esculent irony is that Ireland is still a cultural colony of Britain, especially England.

    They watch British TV, follow British sports, read British papers - and obsess over British politics. Ireland is not European, it is quasi-British, if it is anything other than Irish.

  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    SunnyJim said:


    Who knows what an election will bring about? You certainly don’t.

    I note you’re still grasping at straws at this mythical ‘last minute’ deal which is rather laughable at the moment.

    If needed the exact copy of May's deal can come back but there will be lipstick popped on to it for presentational reasons of course...just to make the spin easier about the remain parliament rejecting the final opportunity to ensure the very thing they claim to be terrified of doesn't happen.

    Cummings is just humiliating the remainers in parliament now.

    Do you have a Cummings poster above your bed? You are very weirdly into him.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,067


    What lipstick?

    Yellow to match the bellies of the remainers in parliament.
  • TGOHF2 said:


    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.

    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.

    The UK government is suggesting a hard border 10 miles from the actual border. ‪The simple truth is that Brexit is not compatible with the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border in Ireland runs counter to promises made to the nationalist community, while a hard border in the Irish Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    There is already a border in Ireland across which there are different governments, different heads of state, different currencies, different legal systems, different tax systems, different speed limits and different football teams.

    How curious all that is tolerable yet other things are deemed not to be.

    It is tolerable because it is what people are used to be popular.

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    I doubt anyone would claim that the current situation in NI is perfect. But it is a whole lot better than it was. Making it worse than it is now is understandably unpopular. I’m not sure why you find that curious.

    Yet the Irish government chose to make the situation worse by changing from mph to kmph.

    My car gives speeds in MPH and KPH. I am not sure this is the killer argument you think it is.

    Since 2005 all new cars sold in Ireland have speedometers that display only kilometres per hour

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_Ireland
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,795
    SunnyJim said:


    What lipstick?

    Yellow to match the bellies of the remainers in parliament.
    So you don’t know what you’re talking about and you’re just making it up. Got it.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,795

    TGOHF2 said:


    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.

    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.

    The UK government is suggesting a hard border 10 miles from the actual border. ‪The simple truth is that Brexit is not compatible with the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border in Ireland runs counter to promises made to the nationalist community, while a hard border in the Irish Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    There is already a border in Ireland across which there are different governments, different heads of state, different currencies, different legal systems, different tax systems, different speed limits and different football teams.

    How curious all that is tolerable yet other things are deemed not to be.

    It is tolerable because it is what people are used to be popular.

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    I doubt anyone would claim that the current situation in NI is perfect. But it is a whole lot better than it was. Making it worse than it is now is understandably unpopular. I’m not sure why you find that curious.

    Yet the Irish government chose to make the situation worse by changing from mph to kmph.

    My car gives speeds in MPH and KPH. I am not sure this is the killer argument you think it is.

    Since 2005 all new cars sold in Ireland have speedometers that display only kilometres per hour

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_Ireland
    Who cares man this is just weird.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,067
    Noo said:


    Do you have a Cummings poster above your bed? You are very weirdly into him.

    Not as in to him as remainers are...they are utterly obsessed, and with good reason I suppose.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 17,284
    edited September 30
    Scott_P said:
    Getting the EU to tell Parliament they either back any deal Boris brings back or it's No Deal is probably the only way Parliament will ever vote for a deal.
  • TGOHF2 said:


    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.

    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.

    The UK government is suggesting a hard border 10 miles from the actual border. ‪The simple truth is that Brexit is not compatible with the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border in Ireland runs counter to promises made to the nationalist community, while a hard border in the Irish Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    There is already a border in Ireland across which there are different governments, different heads of state, different currencies, different legal systems, different tax systems, different speed limits and different football teams.

    How curious all that is tolerable yet other things are deemed not to be.

    It is tolerable because it is what people are used to be popular.

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    I doubt anyone would claim that the current situation in NI is perfect. But it is a whole lot better than it was. Making it worse than it is now is understandably unpopular. I’m not sure why you find that curious.

    Yet the Irish government chose to make the situation worse by changing from mph to kmph.

    My car gives speeds in MPH and KPH. I am not sure this is the killer argument you think it is.

    Since 2005 all new cars sold in Ireland have speedometers that display only kilometres per hour

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_Ireland

    So that makes it minutely more difficult for drivers from the Republic in the North, but not vice versa. As I say, not a killer argument IMO.

  • Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Seriously? Are you really that dense? Or are you just trolling?
    Its clearly an inconvenient fact for you.

    But it still remains a fact that the Irish government made the border harder by changing from mph to kmph.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143



    There is already a border in Ireland across which there are different governments, different heads of state, different currencies, different legal systems, different tax systems, different speed limits and different football teams.

    How curious all that is tolerable yet other things are deemed not to be.

    The border used to be even more visible and consequential. People weren't happy about that. There was a violent conflict. As part of the peace agreement that ended that conflict both sides compromised by accepting the continued existence of the border for some purposes, it being rubbed out for others (such as citizenship), and for the principle that it might cease to exist entirely in the future.

    Now one side is proposing to increase the prominence of the border unilaterally, for example by creating a barrier to trade by the imposition of customs. Can you not see how that might reasonably piss off the other side?
    So are you saying violence is to be expected if one side is pissed off ?

    Does that apply to other groups in other countries if they don't get what they want ?

    And the Irish government increased the prominence of the border when it changed from mph to kmph.
    Please stick to what I wrote rather than creating strawmen.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 1,885
    Noo said:

    MikeL said:

    Where are the Ipsos MORI Voting Intention numbers?

    Bottom drawer, left hand side, behind the whiskey bottle....
    Whisky, please. Not whiskey. We do have SOME standards here..
    Whisky = a scottish drink

    Whiskey = an irish drink

    Please note my avatar do try to keep up.....
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    SunnyJim said:

    Noo said:


    Do you have a Cummings poster above your bed? You are very weirdly into him.

    Not as in to him as remainers are...they are utterly obsessed, and with good reason I suppose.
    Mmmm hmmmm, ok babes. It's just you finished three comments in a row talking about him. It came across as somewhat dreamy on your part. Just asking. Horses for courses and all that.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,795

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Seriously? Are you really that dense? Or are you just trolling?
    Its clearly an inconvenient fact for you.

    But it still remains a fact that the Irish government made the border harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Ok. Let’s accept your premise for arguments sake that the Irish government made the border ‘harder’ by changing from mph to kmph (as almost every other country in the world).

    And what? Has anyone complained apart from you?

  • Yet the Irish government chose to make the situation worse by changing from mph to kmph.

    My car gives speeds in MPH and KPH. I am not sure this is the killer argument you think it is.

    I presume he goes nowhere on the continent - or to sea where speeds are measured in knots, even in the UK (1kt = 1.15 mph)
    My car has mph and kmph.

    Do Irish cars ?
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 2,403
    After the latest mini downturn in Trump's ratings, he's behind every one of the 12 postwar Presidents whether in terms of approval, disapproval or net approval on the 538 average of polls:

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo

  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Noo said:

    MikeL said:

    Where are the Ipsos MORI Voting Intention numbers?

    Bottom drawer, left hand side, behind the whiskey bottle....
    Whisky, please. Not whiskey. We do have SOME standards here..
    Whisky = a scottish drink

    Whiskey = an irish drink

    Please note my avatar do try to keep up.....
    Oh I know, I'm just advocating for the the exclusive use of the Scottish one. Because it's obviously miles better and all women and men of breeding and good taste prefer it.
    And whilst we're at it, jam before cream, and yes to pineapple on pizza. These are the hills I choose to die on.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,795


    Yet the Irish government chose to make the situation worse by changing from mph to kmph.

    My car gives speeds in MPH and KPH. I am not sure this is the killer argument you think it is.

    I presume he goes nowhere on the continent - or to sea where speeds are measured in knots, even in the UK (1kt = 1.15 mph)
    My car has mph and kmph.

    Do Irish cars ?
    Yes. Modern cars with digital speedometers will allow the units to be changed.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 2,996
    Byronic said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunateg and visiting either side.

    Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    There is already a border in Ireland across which there are different governments, different heads of state, different currencies, different legal systems, different tax systems, different speed limits and different football teams.

    How curious all that is tolerable yet other things are deemed not to be.

    It is tolerable because it is what people are used to. They are not used to a customs border and one that will significantly restrict the free movement of goods and services. I am not sure why you find that curious. Surely, it’s quite obvious that making everyday lives much harder to live is not going to be popular.

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    I doubt anyone would claim that the current situation in NI is perfect. But it is a whole lot better than it was. Making it worse than it is now is understandably unpopular. I’m not sure why you find that curious.

    Yet the Irish government chose to make the situation worse by changing from mph to kmph.
    The esculent irony is that Ireland is still a cultural colony of Britain, especially England.

    They watch British TV, follow British sports, read British papers - and obsess over British politics. Ireland is not European, it is quasi-British, if it is anything other than Irish.

    Who on earth watches TV or reads papers now?
  • TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Tough shit, that's not happening, NI is a part of the UK and the UK is leaving the EU.
    When? On Oct 31?
    When we have a Parliament that isn't utterly pathetic.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 2,996
    TGOHF2 said:

    EPG said:

    HM Government spying on an Irish nationalist's van when he is outside the UK is not the same as having different speed limits on different roads. We all know that!

    Chances are he’s an MI6 informer anyway..
    If he is, he is voting for Sinn Fein anyway, anyway.

    Honestly the GB-BREXITER version of NI seems to end around the time of Love Thy Neighbour
  • Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Seriously? Are you really that dense? Or are you just trolling?
    Its clearly an inconvenient fact for you.

    But it still remains a fact that the Irish government made the border harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Ok. Let’s accept your premise for arguments sake that the Irish government made the border ‘harder’ by changing from mph to kmph (as almost every other country in the world).

    And what? Has anyone complained apart from you?
    Its the principle.

    We have been told that making the Irish border any harder is intolerable and risks a violent response.

    TBH I would bung Ulster billions and tell them to sort it out themselves.

    And threaten to reduce their government spending to the UK average if they didn't.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 12,669
    GIN1138 said:


    Getting the EU to tell Parliament they either back any deal Boris brings back or it's No Deal is probably the only way Parliament will ever vote for a deal.

    That was TMay episodes 7, 8 and 11. The problem is that even if you can make the threat convincing, you lose not only a load of votes on the Lab side where Corbyn thinks "government defeat and massive economic chaos, I can live with that", you also lose a pile of votes on the Leave side from the ERG types who think, "No Deal, cool".
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,795

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Seriously? Are you really that dense? Or are you just trolling?
    Its clearly an inconvenient fact for you.

    But it still remains a fact that the Irish government made the border harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Ok. Let’s accept your premise for arguments sake that the Irish government made the border ‘harder’ by changing from mph to kmph (as almost every other country in the world).

    And what? Has anyone complained apart from you?
    Its the principle.

    We have been told that making the Irish border any harder is intolerable and risks a violent response.

    TBH I would bung Ulster billions and tell them to sort it out themselves.

    And threaten to reduce their government spending to the UK average if they didn't.
    Great plan. I can see no flaws.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,795

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Tough shit, that's not happening, NI is a part of the UK and the UK is leaving the EU.
    When? On Oct 31?
    When we have a Parliament that isn't utterly pathetic.
    You could be waiting a while.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,067
    Noo said:


    Mmmm hmmmm, ok babes. It's just you finished three comments in a row talking about him. It came across as somewhat dreamy on your part. Just asking. Horses for courses and all that.

    Now you come to mention it lol.

  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,028
    It is afternoon on 19 October. The PM is on telly flying out of Brize Norton or wherever to go and personally deliver the EU Withdrawal no 2 Act letter to the Council. Katya Adler is in Brussels saying how everyone is waiting for Boris. A few talking heads in the studio and then the anchor stops someone mid-rant.

    "I'm sorry to stop you, but we're getting...we can't confirm this just yet, but we have a single report that...the PM'S helicopter has turned round and is heading back to London. Remember the PM spectacularly led his own MPs through the lobby earlier to pass a vote of no confidence in his own government and start the 14-day countdown to an election. We don't know whether this detour is planned or...actually, we have word that the flight plan has been amended so that the destination is Buckingham palace..."

    Cut to Katya. Katya, you've lost the news. Back to the studio and over to Laura K at Westminster.

    Corbyn has forty minutes to get HMQEII's approval to be PM, write his nuke sub letters, get to da choppa, and meet Tusk before he's committed to FBPE prison indefinitely. Then he gets back to no confidence and the election.

    We will only know if this is far fetched or not if we can't find out whether Mike is on holiday or not.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    edited September 30

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Seriously? Are you really that dense? Or are you just trolling?
    Its clearly an inconvenient fact for you.

    But it still remains a fact that the Irish government made the border harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Ok. Let’s accept your premise for arguments sake that the Irish government made the border ‘harder’ by changing from mph to kmph (as almost every other country in the world).

    And what? Has anyone complained apart from you?
    Its the principle.

    We have been told that making the Irish border any harder is intolerable and risks a violent response.

    TBH I would bung Ulster billions and tell them to sort it out themselves.

    And threaten to reduce their government spending to the UK average if they didn't.
    Great plan. I can see no flaws.
    It's amazing, the answer's been staring us in the face all this time.
  • Since 2005 all new cars sold in Ireland have speedometers that display only kilometres per hour

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_Ireland

    So that makes it minutely more difficult for drivers from the Republic in the North, but not vice versa. As I say, not a killer argument IMO.

    So what you're saying is that its not an all-island economy today, there is a border, goods and regulations can be different and this can make life difficult for citizens of the Republic visiting their foreign neighbour in the north?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 1,885
    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    MikeL said:

    Where are the Ipsos MORI Voting Intention numbers?

    Bottom drawer, left hand side, behind the whiskey bottle....
    Whisky, please. Not whiskey. We do have SOME standards here..
    Whisky = a scottish drink

    Whiskey = an irish drink

    Please note my avatar do try to keep up.....
    Oh I know, I'm just advocating for the the exclusive use of the Scottish one. Because it's obviously miles better and all women and men of breeding and good taste prefer it.
    And whilst we're at it, jam before cream, and yes to pineapple on pizza. These are the hills I choose to die on.
    :+1:

    Pineapple is nice. Pizza is an abomination. Cream is disgusting. Jam is too sweet.

    Domaine Ott Clos Mireille Rose, on the other hand, is a delightful wine. I am sure all civilised people agree....?
  • EPGEPG Posts: 2,996

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Seriously? Are you really that dense? Or are you just trolling?
    Its clearly an inconvenient fact for you.

    But it still remains a fact that the Irish government made the border harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Ok. Let’s accept your premise for arguments sake that the Irish government made the border ‘harder’ by changing from mph to kmph (as almost every other country in the world).

    And what? Has anyone complained apart from you?
    Its the principle.

    We have been told that making the Irish border any harder is intolerable and risks a violent response.

    TBH I would bung Ulster billions and tell them to sort it out themselves.

    And threaten to reduce their government spending to the UK average if they didn't.
    Great plan. I can see no flaws.
    GB-BREXITERs == Plans are hard, just make no plan and hang around until someone else like Theresa May volunteers to cleans up our crud for a year or two. Cf. Vote Leave, Bojo and Cum.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 3,332

    After the latest mini downturn in Trump's ratings, he's behind every one of the 12 postwar Presidents whether in terms of approval, disapproval or net approval on the 538 average of polls:

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo

    On the other hand, his rating with registered voters is only about 2.5 points below the percentage he achieved at the 2016 election.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Byronic said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunateg and visiting either side.

    Sea runs counter to promises made to the unionist community. ‬
    There is already a border in Ireland across which there are different governments, different heads of state, different currencies, different legal systems, different tax systems, different speed limits and different football teams.

    How curious all that is tolerable yet other things are deemed not to be.

    It is tolerable because it is what people are used to. They are not used to a customs border and one that will significantly restrict the free movement of goods and services. I am not sure why you find that curious. Surely, it’s quite obvious that making everyday lives much harder to live is not going to be popular.

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    I doubt anyone would claim that the current situation in NI is perfect. But it is a whole lot better than it was. Making it worse than it is now is understandably unpopular. I’m not sure why you find that curious.

    Yet the Irish government chose to make the situation worse by changing from mph to kmph.
    The esculent irony is that Ireland is still a cultural colony of Britain, especially England.

    They watch British TV, follow British sports, read British papers - and obsess over British politics. Ireland is not European, it is quasi-British, if it is anything other than Irish.

    Have you ever been to Ireland?

    Before the Brexit omnishambles I was struck by how little attention was paid to British politics and Britain in general.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 17,284

    GIN1138 said:


    Getting the EU to tell Parliament they either back any deal Boris brings back or it's No Deal is probably the only way Parliament will ever vote for a deal.

    That was TMay episodes 7, 8 and 11. The problem is that even if you can make the threat convincing, you lose not only a load of votes on the Lab side where Corbyn thinks "government defeat and massive economic chaos, I can live with that", you also lose a pile of votes on the Leave side from the ERG types who think, "No Deal, cool".
    DUP are critical in getting ERG'ers on side.

    If the DUP moves hopefully that brings (most) of the ERG on board. If they come on board Labour MPs like Nandy and Flint may be tempted?
This discussion has been closed.