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  • RH1992 said:

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Reading the different numbers on the speedo is so difficult. Oh no.
    Ireland started metrication at the same time as us and actually followed us just like decimalisation, they just didn't get cold feet over a few angry market traders and traditional Tories.
    What size shirt and trousers do you wear ?

    Perhaps you could point out which British politicians are advocating more metrication ?
    I'm not a politician but I 100% would.

    The metric system is the global scientific standard that makes sense. It works in the modern era, is elegantly base-10 and is the only system we should be using.

    SI units are all that we should be aiming to use.
  • Since 2005 all new cars sold in Ireland have speedometers that display only kilometres per hour

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_Ireland

    So that makes it minutely more difficult for drivers from the Republic in the North, but not vice versa. As I say, not a killer argument IMO.

    So what you're saying is that its not an all-island economy today, there is a border, goods and regulations can be different and this can make life difficult for citizens of the Republic visiting their foreign neighbour in the north?

    No. What I’m saying is that the Good Friday Agreement is not compatible with Brexit. Most citizens of the Republic visiting people in the North will be visiting citizens of the Republic.

  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 1,531

    Since 2005 all new cars sold in Ireland have speedometers that display only kilometres per hour

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_Ireland

    So that makes it minutely more difficult for drivers from the Republic in the North, but not vice versa. As I say, not a killer argument IMO.

    So what you're saying is that its not an all-island economy today, there is a border, goods and regulations can be different and this can make life difficult for citizens of the Republic visiting their foreign neighbour in the north?
    Do not be daft. There are not that many speed limits - 30, 40, 50, 60 & 70. Regular border-crossers know the equivalents - just muliply by 1.5 so 60mph = 90kph etc. Good enough as a rule of thumb.


  • There is already a border in Ireland across which there are different governments, different heads of state, different currencies, different legal systems, different tax systems, different speed limits and different football teams.

    How curious all that is tolerable yet other things are deemed not to be.

    The border used to be even more visible and consequential. People weren't happy about that. There was a violent conflict. As part of the peace agreement that ended that conflict both sides compromised by accepting the continued existence of the border for some purposes, it being rubbed out for others (such as citizenship), and for the principle that it might cease to exist entirely in the future.

    Now one side is proposing to increase the prominence of the border unilaterally, for example by creating a barrier to trade by the imposition of customs. Can you not see how that might reasonably piss off the other side?
    So are you saying violence is to be expected if one side is pissed off ?

    Does that apply to other groups in other countries if they don't get what they want ?

    And the Irish government increased the prominence of the border when it changed from mph to kmph.
    Please stick to what I wrote rather than creating strawmen.
    Then perhaps the "they haven't gone away you know" threats should be removed from the whole discussion.

    Do I see how some people might be pissed off by a harder Irish border ?

    Yes, I can.

    You know what ? That's life. Lots of things which change piss me off as well.

    And what response do the people who might be pissed off in Ireland have ?

    They should have the same response as the rest of us when things piss us off.

    We can vote in a different government to change things to something we prefer or we can move elsewhere to where we will be less pissed off or we can unhappily accept the things which piss us off.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 16,898
    Drutt said:

    It is afternoon on 19 October. The PM is on telly flying out of Brize Norton or wherever to go and personally deliver the EU Withdrawal no 2 Act letter to the Council. Katya Adler is in Brussels saying how everyone is waiting for Boris. A few talking heads in the studio and then the anchor stops someone mid-rant.

    "I'm sorry to stop you, but we're getting...we can't confirm this just yet, but we have a single report that...the PM'S helicopter has turned round and is heading back to London. Remember the PM spectacularly led his own MPs through the lobby earlier to pass a vote of no confidence in his own government and start the 14-day countdown to an election. We don't know whether this detour is planned or...actually, we have word that the flight plan has been amended so that the destination is Buckingham palace..."

    Cut to Katya. Katya, you've lost the news. Back to the studio and over to Laura K at Westminster.

    Corbyn has forty minutes to get HMQEII's approval to be PM, write his nuke sub letters, get to da choppa, and meet Tusk before he's committed to FBPE prison indefinitely. Then he gets back to no confidence and the election.

    We will only know if this is far fetched or not if we can't find out whether Mike is on holiday or not.

    These days anything is possible... :D
  • TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Tough shit, that's not happening, NI is a part of the UK and the UK is leaving the EU.
    When? On Oct 31?
    When we have a Parliament that isn't utterly pathetic.
    You could be waiting a while.
    No disagreement there.

    Especially while the chickenshits on the opposition benches in Parliament refuse to back a deal, no deal, revoke, a no confidence vote or an election.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143



    I doubt anyone would claim that the current situation in NI is perfect. But it is a whole lot better than it was. Making it worse than it is now is understandably unpopular. I’m not sure why you find that curious.

    Yet the Irish government chose to make the situation worse by changing from mph to kmph.

    My car gives speeds in MPH and KPH. I am not sure this is the killer argument you think it is.

    Since 2005 all new cars sold in Ireland have speedometers that display only kilometres per hour

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_Ireland
    It doesn't appear to have been a legal requirement, but a change made by manufactures in response to perceived consumer demand. (As far as I can tell).

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/majority-of-new-irish-cars-have-metric-only-speedometers-1.403877
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 1,531

    RH1992 said:

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Reading the different numbers on the speedo is so difficult. Oh no.
    Ireland started metrication at the same time as us and actually followed us just like decimalisation, they just didn't get cold feet over a few angry market traders and traditional Tories.
    What size shirt and trousers do you wear ?

    Perhaps you could point out which British politicians are advocating more metrication ?
    I'm not a politician but I 100% would.

    The metric system is the global scientific standard that makes sense. It works in the modern era, is elegantly base-10 and is the only system we should be using.

    SI units are all that we should be aiming to use.
    ????????

    That makes complete sense!

    Who are you? And what have you done with Philip? :open_mouth:
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,374
    Drutt said:

    It is afternoon on 19 October. The PM is on telly flying out of Brize Norton or wherever to go and personally deliver the EU Withdrawal no 2 Act letter to the Council. Katya Adler is in Brussels saying how everyone is waiting for Boris. A few talking heads in the studio and then the anchor stops someone mid-rant.

    "I'm sorry to stop you, but we're getting...we can't confirm this just yet, but we have a single report that...the PM'S helicopter has turned round and is heading back to London. Remember the PM spectacularly led his own MPs through the lobby earlier to pass a vote of no confidence in his own government and start the 14-day countdown to an election. We don't know whether this detour is planned or...actually, we have word that the flight plan has been amended so that the destination is Buckingham palace..."

    Cut to Katya. Katya, you've lost the news. Back to the studio and over to Laura K at Westminster.

    Corbyn has forty minutes to get HMQEII's approval to be PM, write his nuke sub letters, get to da choppa, and meet Tusk before he's committed to FBPE prison indefinitely. Then he gets back to no confidence and the election.

    We will only know if this is far fetched or not if we can't find out whether Mike is on holiday or not.

    ...Queen then appoints Greta Thunberg. Greta has Boris jailed for driving to Oxfordshire just to take a helicopter back to London. With Boris and Jezza sharing a cell, a new odd-couple reality TV comedy takes the world by storm, boosting the UK's reputation and economy. The UK assumes the rotating presidency of the Council of Europe and oversees the expansion of the EU to include Iceland and Greenland.
  • Noo said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.
    We already solved this problem. Its called the European Union.
    Well, now we have a new situation, that requires a new solution. It really is that simple.
    We broke it, we have to fix it.
    We broke nothing. We are exercising our basic recognised rights, no more no less, as endorsed by the Irish in a referendum. That's not breaking anything.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,374

    RH1992 said:

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Reading the different numbers on the speedo is so difficult. Oh no.
    Ireland started metrication at the same time as us and actually followed us just like decimalisation, they just didn't get cold feet over a few angry market traders and traditional Tories.
    What size shirt and trousers do you wear ?

    Perhaps you could point out which British politicians are advocating more metrication ?
    I'm not a politician but I 100% would.

    The metric system is the global scientific standard that makes sense. It works in the modern era, is elegantly base-10 and is the only system we should be using.

    SI units are all that we should be aiming to use.
    ????????

    That makes complete sense!

    Who are you? And what have you done with Philip? :open_mouth:
    He's found clarity at the bottom of a bottle of whiskey ;)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 64,255

    After the latest mini downturn in Trump's ratings, he's behind every one of the 12 postwar Presidents whether in terms of approval, disapproval or net approval on the 538 average of polls:

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo

    Trump is actually on 47% approval in the latest poll which is from Harris, Obama was at 43% approval at this stage of his presidency
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,374

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    MikeL said:

    Where are the Ipsos MORI Voting Intention numbers?

    Bottom drawer, left hand side, behind the whiskey bottle....
    Whisky, please. Not whiskey. We do have SOME standards here..
    Whisky = a scottish drink

    Whiskey = an irish drink

    Please note my avatar do try to keep up.....
    Oh I know, I'm just advocating for the the exclusive use of the Scottish one. Because it's obviously miles better and all women and men of breeding and good taste prefer it.
    And whilst we're at it, jam before cream, and yes to pineapple on pizza. These are the hills I choose to die on.
    :+1:

    Pineapple is nice. Pizza is an abomination. Cream is disgusting. Jam is too sweet.

    Domaine Ott Clos Mireille Rose, on the other hand, is a delightful wine. I am sure all civilised people agree....?
    I'll let you know if I ever try it. I'm a whisky fan, but I know feck all about wine.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,518
    @another_richard who are you trying to convince?

    The EU has its red lines just like we do. We’re learning who really holds all the cards.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 23,227
    edited September 30

    RH1992 said:

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Reading the different numbers on the speedo is so difficult. Oh no.
    Ireland started metrication at the same time as us and actually followed us just like decimalisation, they just didn't get cold feet over a few angry market traders and traditional Tories.
    What size shirt and trousers do you wear ?

    Perhaps you could point out which British politicians are advocating more metrication ?
    I'm not a politician but I 100% would.

    The metric system is the global scientific standard that makes sense. It works in the modern era, is elegantly base-10 and is the only system we should be using.

    SI units are all that we should be aiming to use.
    Agreed about SI units - everyone using the same numbers makes life easier for everyone!

    Not a lot of places that still use miles - UK, US, Canada, Singapore, Hong Kong and that’s about it. India maybe?

    You do get used to KM after a while of using them, although in the early days of Ireland’s changing I did wonder why the speed limit on the M7 was 120 when my hire car wouldn’t go above 110!
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 1,531
    edited September 30

    Since 2005 all new cars sold in Ireland have speedometers that display only kilometres per hour

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_Ireland

    So that makes it minutely more difficult for drivers from the Republic in the North, but not vice versa. As I say, not a killer argument IMO.

    So what you're saying is that its not an all-island economy today, there is a border, goods and regulations can be different and this can make life difficult for citizens of the Republic visiting their foreign neighbour in the north?

    No. What I’m saying is that the Good Friday Agreement is not compatible with Brexit. Most citizens of the Republic visiting people in the North will be visiting citizens of the Republic.

    Actually, anyonne born on the island of Ireland before 2004 is a citizen of the Republic. Anyone born after that date probably has a parent born before 2004 and so is a citizen of the Republic as well...
  • Noo said:

    RH1992 said:

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Reading the different numbers on the speedo is so difficult. Oh no.
    Ireland started metrication at the same time as us and actually followed us just like decimalisation, they just didn't get cold feet over a few angry market traders and traditional Tories.
    What size shirt and trousers do you wear ?

    Perhaps you could point out which British politicians are advocating more metrication ?
    I'm not a politician but I 100% would.

    The metric system is the global scientific standard that makes sense. It works in the modern era, is elegantly base-10 and is the only system we should be using.

    SI units are all that we should be aiming to use.
    ????????

    That makes complete sense!

    Who are you? And what have you done with Philip? :open_mouth:
    He's found clarity at the bottom of a bottle of whiskey ;)
    I don't drink the stuff. Lock me up as it seems to be treason here, but I can't stand either whisky or whiskey. Awkwardly my father-in-law is from Edinburgh, in a Christmas Day miracle I'm the only person he's ever offered to put Coke into whisky in his house; we were there one Christmas and as a sign of respect I was drinking the whisky neat. I didn't ask for ice or Coke as I knew he'd find that sacrilege and after a while he shocked everyone by getting up and getting me a can of Coke from the fridge.

    On the other hand I am at the bottom of a bottle of Malbec.
  • RH1992 said:

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Reading the different numbers on the speedo is so difficult. Oh no.
    Ireland started metrication at the same time as us and actually followed us just like decimalisation, they just didn't get cold feet over a few angry market traders and traditional Tories.
    What size shirt and trousers do you wear ?

    Perhaps you could point out which British politicians are advocating more metrication ?
    I'm not a politician but I 100% would.

    The metric system is the global scientific standard that makes sense. It works in the modern era, is elegantly base-10 and is the only system we should be using.

    SI units are all that we should be aiming to use.
    In a way I'd be happy if pints were converted - it seems stupid to buy bottled beer in metric but for pubs to still use imperial.

    But for all the advantages of metric for scientific / academic / industrial purposes its different for fixed measurements we already have.

    Do footballers around the world have to be 9.144m from an opposing free kick ?

    That's a genuine question - how are football distances in yards referred to around the world ?
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,374

    Noo said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.
    We already solved this problem. Its called the European Union.
    Well, now we have a new situation, that requires a new solution. It really is that simple.
    We broke it, we have to fix it.
    We broke nothing. We are exercising our basic recognised rights, no more no less, as endorsed by the Irish in a referendum. That's not breaking anything.
    Go back up a few replies. We had a solution. We, in our Britannic Wisdom have decided that said solution -- the EU -- must go. That's our right, but exercising it has consequences, and we need to grasp this nettle:
    It's incumbent on us to find a new solution or to have the bottle to say that we don't care. So, do we care?
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143



    There is already a border in Ireland across which there are different governments, different heads of state, different currencies, different legal systems, different tax systems, different speed limits and different football teams.

    How curious all that is tolerable yet other things are deemed not to be.

    The border used to be even more visible and consequential. People weren't happy about that. There was a violent conflict. As part of the peace agreement that ended that conflict both sides compromised by accepting the continued existence of the border for some purposes, it being rubbed out for others (such as citizenship), and for the principle that it might cease to exist entirely in the future.

    Now one side is proposing to increase the prominence of the border unilaterally, for example by creating a barrier to trade by the imposition of customs. Can you not see how that might reasonably piss off the other side?
    So are you saying violence is to be expected if one side is pissed off ?

    Does that apply to other groups in other countries if they don't get what they want ?

    And the Irish government increased the prominence of the border when it changed from mph to kmph.
    Please stick to what I wrote rather than creating strawmen.
    Then perhaps the "they haven't gone away you know" threats should be removed from the whole discussion.

    Do I see how some people might be pissed off by a harder Irish border ?

    Yes, I can.

    You know what ? That's life. Lots of things which change piss me off as well.

    And what response do the people who might be pissed off in Ireland have ?

    They should have the same response as the rest of us when things piss us off.

    We can vote in a different government to change things to something we prefer or we can move elsewhere to where we will be less pissed off or we can unhappily accept the things which piss us off.
    I kinda feel like we should stand by a peace agreement we've signed.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,518

    RH1992 said:

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Reading the different numbers on the speedo is so difficult. Oh no.
    Ireland started metrication at the same time as us and actually followed us just like decimalisation, they just didn't get cold feet over a few angry market traders and traditional Tories.
    What size shirt and trousers do you wear ?

    Perhaps you could point out which British politicians are advocating more metrication ?
    I'm not a politician but I 100% would.

    The metric system is the global scientific standard that makes sense. It works in the modern era, is elegantly base-10 and is the only system we should be using.

    SI units are all that we should be aiming to use.
    In a way I'd be happy if pints were converted - it seems stupid to buy bottled beer in metric but for pubs to still use imperial.

    But for all the advantages of metric for scientific / academic / industrial purposes its different for fixed measurements we already have.

    Do footballers around the world have to be 9.144m from an opposing free kick ?

    That's a genuine question - how are football distances in yards referred to around the world ?
    The same way they do here. With a stride. British referees don't whip out the tape measure
  • Sandpit said:

    RH1992 said:

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Reading the different numbers on the speedo is so difficult. Oh no.
    Ireland started metrication at the same time as us and actually followed us just like decimalisation, they just didn't get cold feet over a few angry market traders and traditional Tories.
    What size shirt and trousers do you wear ?

    Perhaps you could point out which British politicians are advocating more metrication ?
    I'm not a politician but I 100% would.

    The metric system is the global scientific standard that makes sense. It works in the modern era, is elegantly base-10 and is the only system we should be using.

    SI units are all that we should be aiming to use.
    Agreed about SI units - everyone using the same numbers makes life easier for everyone!

    Not a lot of places that still use miles - UK, US, Canada, Singapore, Hong Kong and that’s about it.

    You do get used to KM after a while of using them, although in the early days of Ireland’s changing I did wonder why the speed limit on the M7 was 120 when my hire car wouldn’t go above 110!
    Absolutely agreed. KM, M, CM there's an elegant and simple way to understand those and work with them. I've always preferred SI and hated Imperial. Even most Commonwealth nations have rightly switched to KM - you're wrong about Canada, they're KM too despite their noisy neighbour still using miles.

    The one thing I'll never back though is calling GMT "UTC" - that is just ridiculous nonsense, or switching to driving on the left, that is Napoleonic nonsense that has no scientific reason behind it.
  • @another_richard who are you trying to convince?

    The EU has its red lines just like we do. We’re learning who really holds all the cards.

    Convince ???

    This is PB - does anyone ever get convinced here ?

    And if the EU has all the cards isn't it a good idea to stop playing at the same table and try somewhere else ?
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,374

    Noo said:

    RH1992 said:

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Reading the different numbers on the speedo is so difficult. Oh no.
    Ireland started metrication at the same time as us and actually followed us just like decimalisation, they just didn't get cold feet over a few angry market traders and traditional Tories.
    What size shirt and trousers do you wear ?

    Perhaps you could point out which British politicians are advocating more metrication ?
    I'm not a politician but I 100% would.

    The metric system is the global scientific standard that makes sense. It works in the modern era, is elegantly base-10 and is the only system we should be using.

    SI units are all that we should be aiming to use.
    ????????

    That makes complete sense!

    Who are you? And what have you done with Philip? :open_mouth:
    He's found clarity at the bottom of a bottle of whiskey ;)
    I don't drink the stuff. Lock me up as it seems to be treason here, but I can't stand either whisky or whiskey. Awkwardly my father-in-law is from Edinburgh, in a Christmas Day miracle I'm the only person he's ever offered to put Coke into whisky in his house; we were there one Christmas and as a sign of respect I was drinking the whisky neat. I didn't ask for ice or Coke as I knew he'd find that sacrilege and after a while he shocked everyone by getting up and getting me a can of Coke from the fridge.

    On the other hand I am at the bottom of a bottle of Malbec.
    Understand one thing about whisky: however you like it is best. If you prefer it with Coke, drink it with Coke. I wouldn't, but I'm not you. If you like it with ice, put ice in it. Actually, the melting water can tease some extra flavour out, but I'd do it with a drop or two -- no more -- of water rather than ice.
    If, of course, you can't find any way to enjoy whisky, leave it alone. Some people will never like it. And never apologise for that. Whisky is meant to be a pleasure not a chore. Cheers.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 815
    I am never quite sure if these 'interventions' are intended for domestic consumption or if the individual concerned actually believes they are in any way relevant.

    I guess there will claims that a future trade deal with the US requires the approval of individuals like this chap and that may be, or may not be, true.

    It matters not.

    Brexit is condensing in to the next couple of months and almost all avenues are cut off (for both sides) leaving just a couple of clear paths to choose from for each side.

    The relevance right now of a future trade deal is approximately zero.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 1,531

    Sandpit said:

    RH1992 said:

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Reading the different numbers on the speedo is so difficult. Oh no.
    Ireland started metrication at the same time as us and actually followed us just like decimalisation, they just didn't get cold feet over a few angry market traders and traditional Tories.
    What size shirt and trousers do you wear ?

    Perhaps you could point out which British politicians are advocating more metrication ?
    I'm not a politician but I 100% would.

    The metric system is the global scientific standard that makes sense. It works in the modern era, is elegantly base-10 and is the only system we should be using.

    SI units are all that we should be aiming to use.
    Agreed about SI units - everyone using the same numbers makes life easier for everyone!

    Not a lot of places that still use miles - UK, US, Canada, Singapore, Hong Kong and that’s about it.

    You do get used to KM after a while of using them, although in the early days of Ireland’s changing I did wonder why the speed limit on the M7 was 120 when my hire car wouldn’t go above 110!
    Absolutely agreed. KM, M, CM there's an elegant and simple way to understand those and work with them. I've always preferred SI and hated Imperial. Even most Commonwealth nations have rightly switched to KM - you're wrong about Canada, they're KM too despite their noisy neighbour still using miles.

    The one thing I'll never back though is calling GMT "UTC" - that is just ridiculous nonsense, or switching to driving on the left, that is Napoleonic nonsense that has no scientific reason behind it.
    But GMT is not the same as UTC. They can differ by almost a second.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    I've become a big fan of imperial measures for situations where a human-readable number/level of precision is required.

    So for baking, if you want equal quantities of butter, sugar, eggs and flour it's much easier to do this with ounces, since an egg is roughly 2oz. In metric recipes it's a mess. 3 eggs is converted to 175g (6oz), but 4 eggs becomes 225g (8oz). So if I want to increase the recipe by an extra eggs worth it's much simpler to work out with imperial.

    Use metric for science and engineering, but imperial measures for life.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 926
    Noo said:

    Drutt said:

    It is afternoon on 19 October. The PM is on telly flying out of Brize Norton or wherever to go and personally deliver the EU Withdrawal no 2 Act letter to the Council. Katya Adler is in Brussels saying how everyone is waiting for Boris. A few talking heads in the studio and then the anchor stops someone mid-rant.

    "I'm sorry to stop you, but we're getting...we can't confirm this just yet, but we have a single report that...the PM'S helicopter has turned round and is heading back to London. Remember the PM spectacularly led his own MPs through the lobby earlier to pass a vote of no confidence in his own government and start the 14-day countdown to an election. We don't know whether this detour is planned or...actually, we have word that the flight plan has been amended so that the destination is Buckingham palace..."

    Cut to Katya. Katya, you've lost the news. Back to the studio and over to Laura K at Westminster.

    Corbyn has forty minutes to get HMQEII's approval to be PM, write his nuke sub letters, get to da choppa, and meet Tusk before he's committed to FBPE prison indefinitely. Then he gets back to no confidence and the election.

    We will only know if this is far fetched or not if we can't find out whether Mike is on holiday or not.

    ...Queen then appoints Greta Thunberg. Greta has Boris jailed for driving to Oxfordshire just to take a helicopter back to London. With Boris and Jezza sharing a cell, a new odd-couple reality TV comedy takes the world by storm, boosting the UK's reputation and economy. The UK assumes the rotating presidency of the Council of Europe and oversees the expansion of the EU to include Iceland and Greenland.
    Useful to clear up those loose ends. Night all.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Sandpit said:

    RH1992 said:

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Reading the different numbers on the speedo is so difficult. Oh no.
    Ireland started metrication at the same time as us and actually followed us just like decimalisation, they just didn't get cold feet over a few angry market traders and traditional Tories.
    What size shirt and trousers do you wear ?

    Perhaps you could point out which British politicians are advocating more metrication ?
    I'm not a politician but I 100% would.

    The metric system is the global scientific standard that makes sense. It works in the modern era, is elegantly base-10 and is the only system we should be using.

    SI units are all that we should be aiming to use.
    Agreed about SI units - everyone using the same numbers makes life easier for everyone!

    Not a lot of places that still use miles - UK, US, Canada, Singapore, Hong Kong and that’s about it.

    You do get used to KM after a while of using them, although in the early days of Ireland’s changing I did wonder why the speed limit on the M7 was 120 when my hire car wouldn’t go above 110!
    Absolutely agreed. KM, M, CM there's an elegant and simple way to understand those and work with them. I've always preferred SI and hated Imperial. Even most Commonwealth nations have rightly switched to KM - you're wrong about Canada, they're KM too despite their noisy neighbour still using miles.

    The one thing I'll never back though is calling GMT "UTC" - that is just ridiculous nonsense, or switching to driving on the left, that is Napoleonic nonsense that has no scientific reason behind it.
    GMT and UTC are now different.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 1,531

    I've become a big fan of imperial measures for situations where a human-readable number/level of precision is required.

    So for baking, if you want equal quantities of butter, sugar, eggs and flour it's much easier to do this with ounces, since an egg is roughly 2oz. In metric recipes it's a mess. 3 eggs is converted to 175g (6oz), but 4 eggs becomes 225g (8oz). So if I want to increase the recipe by an extra eggs worth it's much simpler to work out with imperial.

    Use metric for science and engineering, but imperial measures for life.

    As long as you do not resort to "cups" for measuring. That is a complete minefield!
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,518

    I've become a big fan of imperial measures for situations where a human-readable number/level of precision is required.

    So for baking, if you want equal quantities of butter, sugar, eggs and flour it's much easier to do this with ounces, since an egg is roughly 2oz. In metric recipes it's a mess. 3 eggs is converted to 175g (6oz), but 4 eggs becomes 225g (8oz). So if I want to increase the recipe by an extra eggs worth it's much simpler to work out with imperial.

    Use metric for science and engineering, but imperial measures for life.

    This is mad. You just use little kitchen scales set to grams. I don’t know anyone who uses ounces for anything kitchen related and I’m 27.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 13,371
    Andy_JS said:

    Tories coming across as slightly weird at their conference on BBC2. So no change there.

    Chatted to several Tory MPs at the fringe meeting where I was speaking (which attracted Raab, Carrie and several other reasonably prominent people - the Tories are increasingly into animal welfare). The general view seems to be that they'd win an election easily if they can make Brexit happen, but they seem no more informed than the rest of us on how (that said, I didn't speak to Raab or Carrie, who may have an idea). In the absence of serious Lib/Lab tactical voting, they expect a 1983 result, and some would like a deal with Farage to make it certain (suggested price - a seat in the Lords and a free run at 75 unwinnable Labour seats).
  • Noo said:

    Noo said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainers are objecting to some offices being opened to handle customs paperwork ?

    Quite right - a proposal that Chairman Mao himself would decry as too authoritarian.

    This has nothing to do with Remainers. It’s not us rejecting this. It’s Ireland backed by the EU.
    The Irish have failed to come up with many ideas - just stuff they don’t like.

    A bit like Labour and the Lib Dem’s.
    ...and?

    Ireland wants the entirety of the island of Ireland in the single market and customs union. That’s it.
    Well unfortunately for them, part of the island of Ireland is part of a state that has voted to leave the EU. So alternative arrangements will need to be made. It would be helpful if they engaged constructively with the gargantuan efforts made by the UK Government to construct an effective customs border that is invisible and doesn't encumber people from living, working and visiting either side.
    We already solved this problem. Its called the European Union.
    Well, now we have a new situation, that requires a new solution. It really is that simple.
    We broke it, we have to fix it.
    We broke nothing. We are exercising our basic recognised rights, no more no less, as endorsed by the Irish in a referendum. That's not breaking anything.
    Go back up a few replies. We had a solution. We, in our Britannic Wisdom have decided that said solution -- the EU -- must go. That's our right, but exercising it has consequences, and we need to grasp this nettle:
    It's incumbent on us to find a new solution or to have the bottle to say that we don't care. So, do we care?
    Absolutely not the case.

    We had a solution, the EU. All parties in the EU, including Ireland, recognised that all nations maintained the right to go. We have exercised that right. So be it, that was our right. Now it is incumbent on all nations involved to find a solution.

    We were not slaves to the EU, we had a right to leave, so our exit is not breaking anything at all. Unless you think we are chained to the EU and exiting the EU is breaking those chains? That's not my opinion but is that what you're trying to claim?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,518

    Andy_JS said:

    Tories coming across as slightly weird at their conference on BBC2. So no change there.

    Chatted to several Tory MPs at the fringe meeting where I was speaking (which attracted Raab, Carrie and several other reasonably prominent people - the Tories are increasingly into animal welfare). The general view seems to be that they'd win an election easily if they can make Brexit happen, but they seem no more informed than the rest of us on how (that said, I didn't speak to Raab or Carrie, who may have an idea). In the absence of serious Lib/Lab tactical voting, they expect a 1983 result, and some would like a deal with Farage to make it certain (suggested price - a seat in the Lords and a free run at 75 unwinnable Labour seats).
    I wasn’t alive in 1983 so I have to ask - did the SDP draw from traditional Tory voters like the Lib Dems seem to be doing now?


  • There is already a border in Ireland across which there are different governments, different heads of state, different currencies, different legal systems, different tax systems, different speed limits and different football teams.

    How curious all that is tolerable yet other things are deemed not to be.

    The border used to be even more visible and consequential. People weren't happy about that. There was a violent conflict. As part of the peace agreement that ended that conflict both sides compromised by accepting the continued existence of the border for some purposes, it being rubbed out for others (such as citizenship), and for the principle that it might cease to exist entirely in the future.

    Now one side is proposing to increase the prominence of the border unilaterally, for example by creating a barrier to trade by the imposition of customs. Can you not see how that might reasonably piss off the other side?
    So are you saying violence is to be expected if one side is pissed off ?

    Does that apply to other groups in other countries if they don't get what they want ?

    And the Irish government increased the prominence of the border when it changed from mph to kmph.
    Please stick to what I wrote rather than creating strawmen.
    Then perhaps the "they haven't gone away you know" threats should be removed from the whole discussion.

    Do I see how some people might be pissed off by a harder Irish border ?

    Yes, I can.

    You know what ? That's life. Lots of things which change piss me off as well.

    And what response do the people who might be pissed off in Ireland have ?

    They should have the same response as the rest of us when things piss us off.

    We can vote in a different government to change things to something we prefer or we can move elsewhere to where we will be less pissed off or we can unhappily accept the things which piss us off.
    I kinda feel like we should stand by a peace agreement we've signed.
    Stuff happens.

    And agreements have to adapt as time moves on.

    Yes, that can be a callous attitude but its real world.

    So you get the cheque book out and salve people's feelings or have some firm but quiet words as appropriate.

    Will everyone be happy ? Probably not but Yokel will explain that Northern Ireland isn't all sweetness and light as it is.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    I've become a big fan of imperial measures for situations where a human-readable number/level of precision is required.

    So for baking, if you want equal quantities of butter, sugar, eggs and flour it's much easier to do this with ounces, since an egg is roughly 2oz. In metric recipes it's a mess. 3 eggs is converted to 175g (6oz), but 4 eggs becomes 225g (8oz). So if I want to increase the recipe by an extra eggs worth it's much simpler to work out with imperial.

    Use metric for science and engineering, but imperial measures for life.

    This is mad. You just use little kitchen scales set to grams. I don’t know anyone who uses ounces for anything kitchen related and I’m 27.
    Say you want to adjust the recipe to use five eggs. How many grams of the other ingredients?

    It's easy with ounces, because they're a unit of measurement with a degree of precision suitable for the task at hand.

    Metric is too precise and fussy for daily life.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 64,255
    edited September 30
    No it is a reasonable alternative to the backstop, this partisan Democrat should stick to trying to impeach a democratically elected president rather than stick his nose into our affairs
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 12,606
    edited September 30


    And if the EU has all the cards isn't it a good idea to stop playing at the same table and try somewhere else ?

    Just pick up the country and move it, I'd go for a spot between Taiwan and China but be sure to square it with the Chinese navy and watch out for the typhoons
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,518
    HYUFD said:

    No it is a reasonable alternative to the backstop, this partisan Democrat should stick to trying to impeach a democratically elected president rather than stick his nose into our affairs
    Someone’s cross.
  • I've become a big fan of imperial measures for situations where a human-readable number/level of precision is required.

    So for baking, if you want equal quantities of butter, sugar, eggs and flour it's much easier to do this with ounces, since an egg is roughly 2oz. In metric recipes it's a mess. 3 eggs is converted to 175g (6oz), but 4 eggs becomes 225g (8oz). So if I want to increase the recipe by an extra eggs worth it's much simpler to work out with imperial.

    Use metric for science and engineering, but imperial measures for life.

    As long as you do not resort to "cups" for measuring. That is a complete minefield!
    A cup is half a mug.
  • Sandpit said:

    RH1992 said:

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Reading the different numbers on the speedo is so difficult. Oh no.
    Ireland started metrication at the same time as us and actually followed us just like decimalisation, they just didn't get cold feet over a few angry market traders and traditional Tories.
    What size shirt and trousers do you wear ?

    Perhaps you could point out which British politicians are advocating more metrication ?
    I'm not a politician but I 100% would.

    The metric system is the global scientific standard that makes sense. It works in the modern era, is elegantly base-10 and is the only system we should be using.

    SI units are all that we should be aiming to use.
    Agreed about SI units - everyone using the same numbers makes life easier for everyone!

    Not a lot of places that still use miles - UK, US, Canada, Singapore, Hong Kong and that’s about it.

    You do get used to KM after a while of using them, although in the early days of Ireland’s changing I did wonder why the speed limit on the M7 was 120 when my hire car wouldn’t go above 110!
    Absolutely agreed. KM, M, CM there's an elegant and simple way to understand those and work with them. I've always preferred SI and hated Imperial. Even most Commonwealth nations have rightly switched to KM - you're wrong about Canada, they're KM too despite their noisy neighbour still using miles.

    The one thing I'll never back though is calling GMT "UTC" - that is just ridiculous nonsense, or switching to driving on the left, that is Napoleonic nonsense that has no scientific reason behind it.
    But GMT is not the same as UTC. They can differ by almost a second.
    A whole second!? That changes everything.

    Actually not living with an atomic clock I can live with that. I deliberately set my in-car clock 5 minutes fast.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,374
    "We said there wouldn't be a border between Northern Ireland and Ireland. But by making the whole island one huge border, it could not be said to be between them at all. That is how we solved the border issue, and it gives me great pleasure to accept this Nobel Peace Prize, which I dedicate to the indefatigable work of my predecessors over the past eighteen months, Prime Ministers Theresa May, Boris Johnson, Jeremy Corbyn, Dominic Grieve, Jo Swinson, Mhairi Black, Neil Hamilton, Jeremy Corbyn a second time, Paul Gascoigne, Sir Toby Young, the exhumed corpse of Fred Perry, and Bubble Ferguson from Big Brother"
    -- 2020 Nobel Prize Laureate, UK Prime Minister Mark Francois
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 5,518

    I've become a big fan of imperial measures for situations where a human-readable number/level of precision is required.

    So for baking, if you want equal quantities of butter, sugar, eggs and flour it's much easier to do this with ounces, since an egg is roughly 2oz. In metric recipes it's a mess. 3 eggs is converted to 175g (6oz), but 4 eggs becomes 225g (8oz). So if I want to increase the recipe by an extra eggs worth it's much simpler to work out with imperial.

    Use metric for science and engineering, but imperial measures for life.

    This is mad. You just use little kitchen scales set to grams. I don’t know anyone who uses ounces for anything kitchen related and I’m 27.
    Say you want to adjust the recipe to use five eggs. How many grams of the other ingredients?

    It's easy with ounces, because they're a unit of measurement with a degree of precision suitable for the task at hand.

    Metric is too precise and fussy for daily life.
    You multiply everything by 1.25?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 25,778
    edited September 30
    Noo said:

    I don't drink the stuff. Lock me up as it seems to be treason here, but I can't stand either whisky or whiskey. Awkwardly my father-in-law is from Edinburgh, in a Christmas Day miracle I'm the only person he's ever offered to put Coke into whisky in his house; we were there one Christmas and as a sign of respect I was drinking the whisky neat. I didn't ask for ice or Coke as I knew he'd find that sacrilege and after a while he shocked everyone by getting up and getting me a can of Coke from the fridge.

    On the other hand I am at the bottom of a bottle of Malbec.

    Understand one thing about whisky: however you like it is best. If you prefer it with Coke, drink it with Coke. I wouldn't, but I'm not you. If you like it with ice, put ice in it. Actually, the melting water can tease some extra flavour out, but I'd do it with a drop or two -- no more -- of water rather than ice.
    If, of course, you can't find any way to enjoy whisky, leave it alone. Some people will never like it. And never apologise for that. Whisky is meant to be a pleasure not a chore. Cheers.
    That's quite fair. I like it with Coke and ice.

    And I like it to be Rum. ;)
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 1,531

    I've become a big fan of imperial measures for situations where a human-readable number/level of precision is required.

    So for baking, if you want equal quantities of butter, sugar, eggs and flour it's much easier to do this with ounces, since an egg is roughly 2oz. In metric recipes it's a mess. 3 eggs is converted to 175g (6oz), but 4 eggs becomes 225g (8oz). So if I want to increase the recipe by an extra eggs worth it's much simpler to work out with imperial.

    Use metric for science and engineering, but imperial measures for life.

    As long as you do not resort to "cups" for measuring. That is a complete minefield!
    A cup is half a mug.
    Is that cup a metric cup? Or an imperial cup? Or a customary cup? Or a legal cup? Or a Canadian cup? etc, etc.

    It is a minefield. Millilitres, OTOH, are lovely....

    Night, night everyone
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 23,227

    Sandpit said:

    RH1992 said:

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Reading the different numbers on the speedo is so difficult. Oh no.
    Ireland started metrication at the same time as us and actually followed us just like decimalisation, they just didn't get cold feet over a few angry market traders and traditional Tories.
    What size shirt and trousers do you wear ?

    Perhaps you could point out which British politicians are advocating more metrication ?
    I'm not a politician but I 100% would.

    The metric system is the global scientific standard that makes sense. It works in the modern era, is elegantly base-10 and is the only system we should be using.

    SI units are all that we should be aiming to use.
    Agreed about SI units - everyone using the same numbers makes life easier for everyone!

    Not a lot of places that still use miles - UK, US, Canada, Singapore, Hong Kong and that’s about it.

    You do get used to KM after a while of using them, although in the early days of Ireland’s changing I did wonder why the speed limit on the M7 was 120 when my hire car wouldn’t go above 110!
    Absolutely agreed. KM, M, CM there's an elegant and simple way to understand those and work with them. I've always preferred SI and hated Imperial. Even most Commonwealth nations have rightly switched to KM - you're wrong about Canada, they're KM too despite their noisy neighbour still using miles.

    The one thing I'll never back though is calling GMT "UTC" - that is just ridiculous nonsense, or switching to driving on the left, that is Napoleonic nonsense that has no scientific reason behind it.
    But GMT is not the same as UTC. They can differ by almost a second.
    Ha, that’s true. So is “Zulu” time metric or imperial? ;)
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 3,985
    Sandpit said:



    Not a lot of places that still use miles - UK, US, Canada, Singapore, Hong Kong

    USA, Myanmar, Liberia and the UK (partially) are the countries still clinging to mixed radix measurement systems,
  • Andy_JS said:

    Tories coming across as slightly weird at their conference on BBC2. So no change there.

    Chatted to several Tory MPs at the fringe meeting where I was speaking (which attracted Raab, Carrie and several other reasonably prominent people - the Tories are increasingly into animal welfare). The general view seems to be that they'd win an election easily if they can make Brexit happen, but they seem no more informed than the rest of us on how (that said, I didn't speak to Raab or Carrie, who may have an idea). In the absence of serious Lib/Lab tactical voting, they expect a 1983 result, and some would like a deal with Farage to make it certain (suggested price - a seat in the Lords and a free run at 75 unwinnable Labour seats).
    That sounds dangerously complacent especially as I doubt they've prepared any better now (student debt for example) than they did in 2017.

    As to Farage, irrespective of my thoughts about him, I don't see how he doesn't deserve a place in the Lords after his political prominence.
  • I've become a big fan of imperial measures for situations where a human-readable number/level of precision is required.

    So for baking, if you want equal quantities of butter, sugar, eggs and flour it's much easier to do this with ounces, since an egg is roughly 2oz. In metric recipes it's a mess. 3 eggs is converted to 175g (6oz), but 4 eggs becomes 225g (8oz). So if I want to increase the recipe by an extra eggs worth it's much simpler to work out with imperial.

    Use metric for science and engineering, but imperial measures for life.

    This is mad. You just use little kitchen scales set to grams. I don’t know anyone who uses ounces for anything kitchen related and I’m 27.
    Say you want to adjust the recipe to use five eggs. How many grams of the other ingredients?

    It's easy with ounces, because they're a unit of measurement with a degree of precision suitable for the task at hand.

    Metric is too precise and fussy for daily life.
    You multiply everything by 1.25?
    That's not rocket science!

    Metric works perfectly for real life. And metric is far easier to convert too. As for a "degree of precision" for ounces - ha! I think grams are perfectly precise thank you very much and in real life converting between grams and kilos is far simpler than converting between ounces, to pounds or whatever.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,374

    Noo said:

    I don't drink the stuff. Lock me up as it seems to be treason here, but I can't stand either whisky or whiskey. Awkwardly my father-in-law is from Edinburgh, in a Christmas Day miracle I'm the only person he's ever offered to put Coke into whisky in his house; we were there one Christmas and as a sign of respect I was drinking the whisky neat. I didn't ask for ice or Coke as I knew he'd find that sacrilege and after a while he shocked everyone by getting up and getting me a can of Coke from the fridge.

    On the other hand I am at the bottom of a bottle of Malbec.

    Understand one thing about whisky: however you like it is best. If you prefer it with Coke, drink it with Coke. I wouldn't, but I'm not you. If you like it with ice, put ice in it. Actually, the melting water can tease some extra flavour out, but I'd do it with a drop or two -- no more -- of water rather than ice.
    If, of course, you can't find any way to enjoy whisky, leave it alone. Some people will never like it. And never apologise for that. Whisky is meant to be a pleasure not a chore. Cheers.
    That's quite fair. I like it with Coke and ice.

    And I like it to be Rum. ;)
    Ah, the old no-whisky whisky. If it works for you..
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 15,315
    edited September 30


    And if the EU has all the cards isn't it a good idea to stop playing at the same table and try somewhere else ?

    Just pick up the country and move it, I'd go for a spot between Taiwan and China but be sure to square it with the Chinese navy and watch out for the typhoons
    Luckily we now have global trade and this new thing called the internet which allows worldwide communication.

    :wink:
  • On metrication what was the first thing to be usually measured in metric in the UK ?

    Car engine sizes at a guess.


  • There is already a border in Ireland across which there are different governments, different heads of state, different currencies, different legal systems, different tax systems, different speed limits and different football teams.

    How curious all that is tolerable yet other things are deemed not to be.

    The border used to be even more visible and consequential. People weren't happy about that. There was a violent conflict. As part of the peace agreement that ended that conflict both sides compromised by accepting the continued existence of the border for some purposes, it being rubbed out for others (such as citizenship), and for the principle that it might cease to exist entirely in the future.

    Now one side is proposing to increase the prominence of the border unilaterally, for example by creating a barrier to trade by the imposition of customs. Can you not see how that might reasonably piss off the other side?
    So are you saying violence is to be expected if one side is pissed off ?

    Does that apply to other groups in other countries if they don't get what they want ?

    And the Irish government increased the prominence of the border when it changed from mph to kmph.
    Please stick to what I wrote rather than creating strawmen.
    Then perhaps the "they haven't gone away you know" threats should be removed from the whole discussion.

    Do I see how some people might be pissed off by a harder Irish border ?

    Yes, I can.

    You know what ? That's life. Lots of things which change piss me off as well.

    And what response do the people who might be pissed off in Ireland have ?

    They should have the same response as the rest of us when things piss us off.

    We can vote in a different government to change things to something we prefer or we can move elsewhere to where we will be less pissed off or we can unhappily accept the things which piss us off.
    I kinda feel like we should stand by a peace agreement we've signed.
    I kinda feel like we should too.

    Thankfully nothing in that peace agreement committed us to staying in either the EU or the Single Market, as multiple courts have already ruled.

    This whole thing seems to be one big rant that people aren't happy with our decision. Tough f***ing s**t it was our right to make that decision and we made it. We broke nothing! We broke no treaty, we enacted a clause in the treaty they had voted through by referendum. So if you don't like it sorry but that's not your choice, get over it and find some new solution.
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    HYUFD said:

    No it is a reasonable alternative to the backstop, this partisan Democrat should stick to trying to impeach a democratically elected president rather than stick his nose into our affairs
    There is no trade deal with America if the House of Representatives is unhappy with us.

    It looks like the Democrats (who badly need Irish American votes) are likely to hold onto the House for some time.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 25,778
    edited September 30
    nunuone said:

    HYUFD said:

    No it is a reasonable alternative to the backstop, this partisan Democrat should stick to trying to impeach a democratically elected president rather than stick his nose into our affairs
    There is no trade deal with America if the House of Representatives is unhappy with us.

    It looks like the Democrats (who badly need Irish American votes) are likely to hold onto the House for some time.
    Except we all know America looks after America first. If they like a deal, they'll ratify it, if they don't, they won't. Realpolitik

    And if there's no deal with America, I can live with that. There's none now either. Its funny how Remainers seem determined to simultaneously scare us with both chlorinated chicken/NHS sold to big US Pharma and no deal with the USA.
  • nunuone said:

    HYUFD said:

    No it is a reasonable alternative to the backstop, this partisan Democrat should stick to trying to impeach a democratically elected president rather than stick his nose into our affairs
    There is no trade deal with America if the House of Representatives is unhappy with us.

    It looks like the Democrats (who badly need Irish American votes) are likely to hold onto the House for some time.
    Do we want a trade agreement with the USA ?

    If we do then we better make sure we negotiate things properly.
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268

    nunuone said:

    HYUFD said:

    No it is a reasonable alternative to the backstop, this partisan Democrat should stick to trying to impeach a democratically elected president rather than stick his nose into our affairs
    There is no trade deal with America if the House of Representatives is unhappy with us.

    It looks like the Democrats (who badly need Irish American votes) are likely to hold onto the House for some time.
    Except we all know America looks after America first. If they like a deal, they'll ratify it, if they don't, they won't. Realpolitik

    And if there's no deal with America, I can live with that. There's none now either. Its funny how Remainers seem determined to simultaneously scare us with both chlorinated chicken/NHS sold to big US Pharma and no deal with the USA.
    Brexiteers would be making a mistake to put a US trade deal first and foremost. Their best argument about the UK having limited influence with the EU equally applies to the USA. And a US trade deal would include so many controversial elements it would probably fail to pass anyway.

    They would be a lot smarter to sign up to the CPTPP trading bloc, which is a group the UK would actually have influence in and also balances interests of rich and poor nations.
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268
    nunuone said:

    HYUFD said:

    No it is a reasonable alternative to the backstop, this partisan Democrat should stick to trying to impeach a democratically elected president rather than stick his nose into our affairs
    There is no trade deal with America if the House of Representatives is unhappy with us.

    It looks like the Democrats (who badly need Irish American votes) are likely to hold onto the House for some time.
    I have yet to meet an Irish American whose voting choice is motivated by the tenets of an Ireland-UK agreement.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 815

    On metrication what was the first thing to be usually measured in metric in the UK ?

    Car engine sizes at a guess.

    I googled metrication on wiki thinking it would be nice to have a discussion about something not centered on Brexit.

    My search continues.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 23,227

    On metrication what was the first thing to be usually measured in metric in the UK ?

    Car engine sizes at a guess.

    That’s a good shout, they’ve pretty much always been in litres outside the USA. A litre is 60 cubic inches.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 2,307

    RH1992 said:

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Reading the different numbers on the speedo is so difficult. Oh no.
    Ireland started metrication at the same time as us and actually followed us just like decimalisation, they just didn't get cold feet over a few angry market traders and traditional Tories.
    What size shirt and trousers do you wear ?

    Perhaps you could point out which British politicians are advocating more metrication ?
    I'm not a politician but I 100% would.

    The metric system is the global scientific standard that makes sense. It works in the modern era, is elegantly base-10 and is the only system we should be using.

    SI units are all that we should be aiming to use.
    In a way I'd be happy if pints were converted - it seems stupid to buy bottled beer in metric but for pubs to still use imperial.

    But for all the advantages of metric for scientific / academic / industrial purposes its different for fixed measurements we already have.

    Do footballers around the world have to be 9.144m from an opposing free kick ?

    That's a genuine question - how are football distances in yards referred to around the world ?
    As I’ve said before, the solution is to use imperial names for metric amounts. One
    metric pound = 500g (just like a “livre” or “pfund” do in markets in France and Germany. One metric pint = 500cl etc. Even speed limits could be re-defined: a 30mph actually means 50kmh, 70mph means 115kmh. Distances on existing road signs could be recast
    as 1 mile ~= 2km. Some signs would be a little out in some cases, but I doubt they’re terribly precise anyway.
  • PaulMPaulM Posts: 521

    Andy_JS said:

    Tories coming across as slightly weird at their conference on BBC2. So no change there.

    Chatted to several Tory MPs at the fringe meeting where I was speaking (which attracted Raab, Carrie and several other reasonably prominent people - the Tories are increasingly into animal welfare). The general view seems to be that they'd win an election easily if they can make Brexit happen, but they seem no more informed than the rest of us on how (that said, I didn't speak to Raab or Carrie, who may have an idea). In the absence of serious Lib/Lab tactical voting, they expect a 1983 result, and some would like a deal with Farage to make it certain (suggested price - a seat in the Lords and a free run at 75 unwinnable Labour seats).
    I wasn’t alive in 1983 so I have to ask - did the SDP draw from traditional Tory voters like the Lib Dems seem to be doing now?
    Hard to be certain as there were boundary changes but no I don't think so. There was hope that they would in 1981/2 when Shirley Williams won Crosby and the Alliance hit over 40% in the polls, but in end the Tory vote held up and the Alliance took vote off Foot's Labour .
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 12,606
    edited October 1


    And if the EU has all the cards isn't it a good idea to stop playing at the same table and try somewhere else ?

    Just pick up the country and move it, I'd go for a spot between Taiwan and China but be sure to square it with the Chinese navy and watch out for the typhoons
    Luckily we now have global trade and this new thing called the internet which allows worldwide communication.

    :wink:
    Personally I try to exist purely as a cybernetic meme, but sadly my work is incomplete and I sometimes need to interact with actual places and things.

    A difficult case is national borders like the one between Britain and Ireland, which although entirely fictional, owe their psychic power to a connection to legacy geography.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 5,103
    What does a "free run" at 75 Lab seats mean?

    Con doesn't campaign? Or Con doesn't stand?

    I think Con has to stand - they surely risk losing too many votes to LD if associated very closely with BXP.

    And in Con/LD marginals each vote lost to LD counts double compared to a vote lost to BXP.

    However I think Con could just stand paper candidates and agree to do zero campaigning - ie no leaflets, no posters, no telephoning etc.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 12,606
    Gabs2 said:


    They would be a lot smarter to sign up to the CPTPP trading bloc, which is a group the UK would actually have influence in and also balances interests of rich and poor nations.

    The CPTPP is pretty great. The first step would be to move Boris Johnson to the Pitcairn Islands to stake out Britain's place as a Pacific nation.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 815
    MikeL said:


    However I think Con could just stand paper candidates and agree to do zero campaigning - ie no leaflets, no posters, no telephoning etc.

    I think you're right in thinking this is how it could play out.

    Where the Conservatives stand no chance in a seat then there is little to gain from allocating resources to it...at least in the next GE.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 21,573
    PaulM said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Tories coming across as slightly weird at their conference on BBC2. So no change there.

    Chatted to several Tory MPs at the fringe meeting where I was speaking (which attracted Raab, Carrie and several other reasonably prominent people - the Tories are increasingly into animal welfare). The general view seems to be that they'd win an election easily if they can make Brexit happen, but they seem no more informed than the rest of us on how (that said, I didn't speak to Raab or Carrie, who may have an idea). In the absence of serious Lib/Lab tactical voting, they expect a 1983 result, and some would like a deal with Farage to make it certain (suggested price - a seat in the Lords and a free run at 75 unwinnable Labour seats).
    I wasn’t alive in 1983 so I have to ask - did the SDP draw from traditional Tory voters like the Lib Dems seem to be doing now?
    Hard to be certain as there were boundary changes but no I don't think so. There was hope that they would in 1981/2 when Shirley Williams won Crosby and the Alliance hit over 40% in the polls, but in end the Tory vote held up and the Alliance took vote off Foot's Labour .
    It’s true that of its members that had been active in politics, most came from Labour, but the SDP did also attract a surprising number of people with little or no political involvement or even interest previously. I can remember a fair few soft Tory types in the early days of the SDP. I expect the reason the Tory vote wasn’t unduly dented was that the drift of moderate Tories to the SDP was counter-balanced by the beginnings of the Tories’ appealing to white van men and the like, with policies like sale of council houses and privatisations (which were in the 1983 manifesto but mostly implemented later), etc.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 25,778
    rpjs said:

    RH1992 said:

    Yet those other things make everyday life harder to live and business transactions harder to conduct as well.

    And do the population of Northern Ireland continuously move across the border ?

    Yes. Many of them do. And many from the south journey the other way.

    This is why the GFA works.

    It is also why Brexit is a complete and utter screw-up as far as the RoI/NI border is concerned.
    Yet the Irish government chose to make cross border travel harder by changing from mph to kmph.
    Reading the different numbers on the speedo is so difficult. Oh no.
    Ireland started metrication at the same time as us and actually followed us just like decimalisation, they just didn't get cold feet over a few angry market traders and traditional Tories.
    What size shirt and trousers do you wear ?

    Perhaps you could point out which British politicians are advocating more metrication ?
    I'm not a politician but I 100% would.

    The metric system is the global scientific standard that makes sense. It works in the modern era, is elegantly base-10 and is the only system we should be using.

    SI units are all that we should be aiming to use.
    In a way I'd be happy if pints were converted - it seems stupid to buy bottled beer in metric but for pubs to still use imperial.

    But for all the advantages of metric for scientific / academic / industrial purposes its different for fixed measurements we already have.

    Do footballers around the world have to be 9.144m from an opposing free kick ?

    That's a genuine question - how are football distances in yards referred to around the world ?
    As I’ve said before, the solution is to use imperial names for metric amounts. One
    metric pound = 500g (just like a “livre” or “pfund” do in markets in France and Germany. One metric pint = 500cl etc. Even speed limits could be re-defined: a 30mph actually means 50kmh, 70mph means 115kmh. Distances on existing road signs could be recast
    as 1 mile ~= 2km. Some signs would be a little out in some cases, but I doubt they’re terribly precise anyway.
    1 mile ~= 2km?

    Shurely shome mishtake?
  • EPGEPG Posts: 2,905
    Gabs2 said:

    nunuone said:

    HYUFD said:

    No it is a reasonable alternative to the backstop, this partisan Democrat should stick to trying to impeach a democratically elected president rather than stick his nose into our affairs
    There is no trade deal with America if the House of Representatives is unhappy with us.

    It looks like the Democrats (who badly need Irish American votes) are likely to hold onto the House for some time.
    I have yet to meet an Irish American whose voting choice is motivated by the tenets of an Ireland-UK agreement.
    Did you ask them? Is baseless speculation on how irrelevant Brexit is to NI/Ireland just ok now?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 23,227
    MikeL said:

    What does a "free run" at 75 Lab seats mean?

    Con doesn't campaign? Or Con doesn't stand?

    I think Con has to stand - they surely risk losing too many votes to LD if associated very closely with BXP.

    And in Con/LD marginals each vote lost to LD counts double compared to a vote lost to BXP.

    However I think Con could just stand paper candidates and agree to do zero campaigning - ie no leaflets, no posters, no telephoning etc.

    The 75 safest Lab seats have vote shares well over 50% and everyone else scrambling to save their deposits - places like Liverpool.

    I doubt they’d get away with standing aside, but running a purely paper Tory candidate in these areas and lending support to the Brexit Party might pull off a handful of BP seats somewhere - especially so if the LDs also move in and manage to split the Lab vote.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 3,985

    On metrication what was the first thing to be usually measured in metric in the UK ?

    Car engine sizes at a guess.

    There is no imperial unit for electrical current so the ampere must have been in use in Britain by the late 19th century.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 31,462

    Gabs2 said:


    They would be a lot smarter to sign up to the CPTPP trading bloc, which is a group the UK would actually have influence in and also balances interests of rich and poor nations.

    The CPTPP is pretty great. The first step would be to move Boris Johnson to the Pitcairn Islands to stake out Britain's place as a Pacific nation.
    That reminds me of Paul Keating mocking France's claims to be a Pacific nation.

This discussion has been closed.