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  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    edited October 2019

    So the problem of voter anger is going to get worse not better. It's just that this time the angry people will be the young, city dwellers and the well educated, and each of those groups is in a far better position to make their anger felt. I just hope the Brexiteers are ready for it.

    I would rather see anger at democracy being respected than anger at democracy being cheated.

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,341
    spudgfsh said:

    It has been clear for some time now that there is no deal that the EU are prepared to countenance that the Tory party would be willing to accept. In fact it is better put as "If the EU think it's a good deal then it's not a good deal for us".
    Lots of things are obvious, but two of them are these: the EU isn't going to agree a deal which further sets apart the two halves of the island of Ireland and there is a deal on the table which would for now at least enable leaving. This should be put to parliament and agreed now - at least TM will vote for it.



  • Byronic said:

    From Byronic:

    Matthias wants us to believe, IIRC, that he is a humble condom vending machine repair man, from a small town near Stuttgart.

    I have my doubts. BUT he is a valuable asset to the site, and very articulate in his second language, so I say Wilkommen to him, as it is part of our Kultur.




    Thank you for your warm welcome.

    Just one little correction.

    I'm a resident of the Free and Hanseatic City of Hamburg which is farther away from Stuttgart than from London.

    And on the 'second language':

    I am in fact an Anglian. A real Anglian. From the real Anglia.

    I originally hail from a small hamlet near Arnis in Schleswig-Holstein, about halfway between the historic site of Haithabu/Hedeby and the ancestral home of the Duke of Edinburgh's family.
    Right at the heart of the real Anglia, where the real Anglians came from.

    A particularly industrious selection of my ancestors was invited by the crumbling remnants of the Brythannic province of the Roman Empire to migrate over there to earn their daily bread by defending your lot against the constant Pictish invasions.

    The boys stayed their welcome in full - and then some - and then proceeded to persuade your ancestors - by means unknown - to adopt my forefather's tongue - the Anglish language - as your new vernacular.

    (I hope I haven't messed up the blockquote)

    You have messed up the blockquotes, but your English is exceptional.

    You are wasted on condom vending machine repair work.

    I have indeed considered venturing into male modelling at one point, but then became aware that 'male model' is, on the continent, used as a polite euphemism for 'bum boy, in a Tank Top'.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    I am in fact an Anglian. A real Anglian. From the real Anglia.

    I originally hail from a small hamlet near Arnis in Schleswig-Holstein, about halfway between the historic site of Haithabu/Hedeby and the ancestral home of the Duke of Edinburgh's family.
    Right at the heart of the real Anglia, where the real Anglians came from.

    East Anglia should really be called West Anglia. :)
    Ours is the Anglosphere. All your bases are belong to us. ;)
    It is an intense quirk of history, that the world ended up speaking English, and not French, Spanish, Latin, Chinese, Arabic, Hindu....

    Imagine being a Martian and landing on the planet in the 4th, 9th, 12th, 15h century. Imagine you were asked to guess which of the many languages you could hear, would end up dominating the planet, with all the consequences that come with.

    The chances of you, a Martian, pointing to a small wet offshore island, near Europe, would have been minuscule.

    So we Brits must thank you sturdy Anglians, for giving us this cultural hegemony.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,230

    From Byronic:

    Matthias wants us to believe, IIRC, that he is a humble condom vending machine repair man, from a small town near Stuttgart.

    I have my doubts. BUT he is a valuable asset to the site, and very articulate in his second language, so I say Wilkommen to him, as it is part of our Kultur.




    Thank you for your warm welcome.

    Just one little correction.

    I'm a resident of the Free and Hanseatic City of Hamburg which is farther away from Stuttgart than from London.

    And on the 'second language':

    I am in fact an Anglian. A real Anglian. From the real Anglia.

    I originally hail from a small hamlet near Arnis in Schleswig-Holstein, about halfway between the historic site of Haithabu/Hedeby and the ancestral home of the Duke of Edinburgh's family.
    Right at the heart of the real Anglia, where the real Anglians came from.

    A particularly industrious selection of my ancestors was invited by the crumbling remnants of the Brythannic province of the Roman Empire to migrate over there to earn their daily bread by defending your lot against the constant Pictish invasions.

    The boys stayed their welcome in full - and then some - and then proceeded to persuade your ancestors - by means unknown - to adopt my forefather's tongue - the Anglish language - as your new vernacular.

    (I hope I haven't messed up the blockquote)

    [Deleted: not as funny as I thought]
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,840
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting Trump impeachment poll:
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/10/new-poll-20-point-increase-impeachment-inquiry-republicans.html

    Very significant movement in the Republican party.

    🙌
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Byronic said:

    From Byronic:

    Matthias wants us to believe, IIRC, that he is a humble condom vending machine repair man, from a small town near Stuttgart.

    I have my doubts. BUT he is a valuable asset to the site, and very articulate in his second language, so I say Wilkommen to him, as it is part of our Kultur.




    Thank you for your warm welcome.

    Just one little correction.

    I'm a resident of the Free and Hanseatic City of Hamburg which is farther away from Stuttgart than from London.

    And on the 'second language':

    I am in fact an Anglian. A real Anglian. From the real Anglia.

    I originally hail from a small hamlet near Arnis in Schleswig-Holstein, about halfway between the historic site of Haithabu/Hedeby and the ancestral home of the Duke of Edinburgh's family.
    Right at the heart of the real Anglia, where the real Anglians came from.

    A particularly industrious selection of my ancestors was invited by the crumbling remnants of the Brythannic province of the Roman Empire to migrate over there to earn their daily bread by defending your lot against the constant Pictish invasions.

    The boys stayed their welcome in full - and then some - and then proceeded to persuade your ancestors - by means unknown - to adopt my forefather's tongue - the Anglish language - as your new vernacular.

    (I hope I haven't messed up the blockquote)

    You have messed up the blockquotes, but your English is exceptional.

    You are wasted on condom vending machine repair work.

    I have indeed considered venturing into male modelling at one point, but then became aware that 'male model' is, on the continent, used as a polite euphemism for 'bum boy, in a Tank Top'.
    Hahaha

    Much needed humour from a Teuton. Truly, the end-times.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited October 2019
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting Trump impeachment poll:
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/10/new-poll-20-point-increase-impeachment-inquiry-republicans.html

    Very significant movement in the Republican party.

    Only 49% back removing Trump from office though, little different to the 48% who voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016, even if 58% back an impeachment inquiry
    The Dems won't hold a vote on impeachment proceedings as that formalizes the process and allows Republicans to subpoena and open the whole can of Democrat worms too. They are trying to impeach without impeaching. Sneaky.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,742
    edited October 2019
    Byronic said:

    From Byronic:

    Matthias wants us to believe, IIRC, that he is a humble condom vending machine repair man, from a small town near Stuttgart.

    I have my doubts. BUT he is a valuable asset to the site, and very articulate in his second language, so I say Wilkommen to him, as it is part of our Kultur.




    Thank you for your warm welcome.

    Just one little correction.

    I'm a resident of the Free and Hanseatic City of Hamburg which is farther away from Stuttgart than from London.

    And on the 'second language':

    I am in fact an Anglian. A real Anglian. From the real Anglia.

    I originally hail from a small hamlet near Arnis in Schleswig-Holstein, about halfway between the historic site of Haithabu/Hedeby and the ancestral home of the Duke of Edinburgh's family.
    Right at the heart of the real Anglia, where the real Anglians came from.

    A particularly industrious selection of my ancestors was invited by the crumbling remnants of the Brythannic province of the Roman Empire to migrate over there to earn their daily bread by defending your lot against the constant Pictish invasions.

    The boys stayed their welcome in full - and then some - and then proceeded to persuade your ancestors - by means unknown - to adopt my forefather's tongue - the Anglish language - as your new vernacular.

    (I hope I haven't messed up the blockquote)

    You have messed up the blockquotes, but your English is exceptional.

    You are wasted on condom vending machine repair work.

    My experience of male models is peripheral, but I'd say your English is also exceptional.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,093
    If Matthias turns out to be a(nother) SeanT pseudonym I shall be very disappointed.
  • Byronic said:

    I am in fact an Anglian. A real Anglian. From the real Anglia.

    I originally hail from a small hamlet near Arnis in Schleswig-Holstein, about halfway between the historic site of Haithabu/Hedeby and the ancestral home of the Duke of Edinburgh's family.
    Right at the heart of the real Anglia, where the real Anglians came from.

    East Anglia should really be called West Anglia. :)
    Ours is the Anglosphere. All your bases are belong to us. ;)
    It is an intense quirk of history, that the world ended up speaking English, and not French, Spanish, Latin, Chinese, Arabic, Hindu....

    Imagine being a Martian and landing on the planet in the 4th, 9th, 12th, 15h century. Imagine you were asked to guess which of the many languages you could hear, would end up dominating the planet, with all the consequences that come with.

    The chances of you, a Martian, pointing to a small wet offshore island, near Europe, would have been minuscule.

    So we Brits must thank you sturdy Anglians, for giving us this cultural hegemony.
    Nothing lasts forever.
    There is a probability greater than zero that in a century from now a different language may be the Lingua Franca.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    edited October 2019
    I can sleep soundly I’m my bed tonight having had a letter from NHS Business Services, whoever they are, because they guarantee my health care till the end of next years and pension increases for three years. Totally reassuring my arse and as for the pension guarantee pails into insignificance against what this shower have done to the value of the pound.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106


    If we crash out in three weeks' time, the angriest will be those who voted Leave, because they are going to find what they voted for is a disaster rather than the promised land they were sold. The anger will probably be all over the place (they certainly won't want to admit they were wrong), but no doubt most of it will end up directed at the Conservative Party, for being in charge of the debacle.

    Far be it for me to coach the remainers on expectation management but should we leave without a deal then unless their predictions of empty shelves, thousands of medical related deaths and unemployment up to 3 million actually materialize then their credibility will be shot.

    And more seriously, it will hole below the waterline attempts to rejoin before they've even floated.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,911
    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    From Byronic:

    Matthias wants us to believe, IIRC, that he is a humble condom vending machine repair man, from a small town near Stuttgart.

    I have my doubts. BUT he is a valuable asset to the site, and very articulate in his second language, so I say Wilkommen to him, as it is part of our Kultur.




    Thank you for your warm welcome.

    Just one little correction.

    I'm a resident of the Free and Hanseatic City of Hamburg which is farther away from Stuttgart than from London.

    And on the 'second language':

    I am in fact an Anglian. A real Anglian. From the real Anglia.

    I originally hail from a small hamlet near Arnis in Schleswig-Holstein, about halfway between the historic site of Haithabu/Hedeby and the ancestral home of the Duke of Edinburgh's family.
    Right at the heart of the real Anglia, where the real Anglians came from.

    A particularly industrious selection of my ancestors was invited by the crumbling remnants of the Brythannic province of the Roman Empire to migrate over there to earn their daily bread by defending your lot against the constant Pictish invasions.

    The boys stayed their welcome in full - and then some - and then proceeded to persuade your ancestors - by means unknown - to adopt my forefather's tongue - the Anglish language - as your new vernacular.

    (I hope I haven't messed up the blockquote)

    You have messed up the blockquotes, but your English is exceptional.

    You are wasted on condom vending machine repair work.

    I have indeed considered venturing into male modelling at one point, but then became aware that 'male model' is, on the continent, used as a polite euphemism for 'bum boy, in a Tank Top'.
    Hahaha

    Much needed humour from a Teuton. Truly, the end-times.
    Even the Germans are laughing at us now. Thanks Brexit.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,093
    algarkirk said:

    spudgfsh said:

    It has been clear for some time now that there is no deal that the EU are prepared to countenance that the Tory party would be willing to accept. In fact it is better put as "If the EU think it's a good deal then it's not a good deal for us".
    Lots of things are obvious, but two of them are these: the EU isn't going to agree a deal which further sets apart the two halves of the island of Ireland and there is a deal on the table which would for now at least enable leaving. This should be put to parliament and agreed now - at least TM will vote for it.



    Spud, the Tories have voted for an EU approved deal three times. And now they've come up with another one that will carry the party, and likely the house.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Byronic said:

    I am in fact an Anglian. A real Anglian. From the real Anglia.

    I originally hail from a small hamlet near Arnis in Schleswig-Holstein, about halfway between the historic site of Haithabu/Hedeby and the ancestral home of the Duke of Edinburgh's family.
    Right at the heart of the real Anglia, where the real Anglians came from.

    East Anglia should really be called West Anglia. :)
    Ours is the Anglosphere. All your bases are belong to us. ;)
    It is an intense quirk of history, that the world ended up speaking English, and not French, Spanish, Latin, Chinese, Arabic, Hindu....

    Imagine being a Martian and landing on the planet in the 4th, 9th, 12th, 15h century. Imagine you were asked to guess which of the many languages you could hear, would end up dominating the planet, with all the consequences that come with.

    The chances of you, a Martian, pointing to a small wet offshore island, near Europe, would have been minuscule.

    So we Brits must thank you sturdy Anglians, for giving us this cultural hegemony.
    Nothing lasts forever.
    There is a probability greater than zero that in a century from now a different language may be the Lingua Franca.
    No, it won't be another language as we understand them. It will be a computer language, and mere humans will have instant translation for everything else.

    But the influence of English will be written into the code that makes the world.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1181625022550597633?s=19

    I said that to a uni friend in 1993. Ought to fix something up I guess
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,911


    If there was any lying about the EU going on over the last half century it came mainly from the Eurosceptic press and all their bollocks stories about straight bananas and the like.
    Our problem is that half the country wants to be in the EU and half wants to be out. When we were in we were only half in, which seemed like a compromise, but now we are to be out we are to be completely out, which sure as hell doesn't feel like a compromise. So the problem of voter anger is going to get worse not better. It's just that this time the angry people will be the young, city dwellers and the well educated, and each of those groups is in a far better position to make their anger felt. I just hope the Brexiteers are ready for it.

    If we crash out in three weeks' time, the angriest will be those who voted Leave, because they are going to find what they voted for is a disaster rather than the promised land they were sold. The anger will probably be all over the place (they certainly won't want to admit they were wrong), but no doubt most of it will end up directed at the Conservative Party, for being in charge of the debacle.
    These people have spent their whole life blaming the wrong people for their problems. I wish I shared your faith that they were going to break the habit of a lifetime.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,861

    spudgfsh said:

    I see Gauke has given up on returning to the Conservative Party then.....
    In its current state? Of course he has. He's not a raving loon.
    A handful of Europhile headbangers got it to that state.

    They will not be missed.
    The conservative party has been pulling in different directions on Europe at the edges for 35 years. it's amazing when moderate centre right conservatives are considered europhile headbangers. It's been the ERG that's been banging on about europe for all of that time not the Europhiles, especially following the ERM debacle.
    Those Europhiles have had a sway mssively out of proportion to the number of voters they represent. Should have been cast adrift 35 years ago.
    35 years ago. That was 1984. Casting away those Conservative "Europhiles" in the same mould as Phillip Hammond would have been a mutiny.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    There’s a few weird stories out there at the moment about things the media are choosing to report or ignore.

    Apart from Stokes, there’s a royal scandal circulating in often-accurate US ‘blind gossip’ blogs that no-one is picking up either (not Andrew).
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1181625022550597633?s=19

    I said that to a uni friend in 1993. Ought to fix something up I guess

    Probably better for them you don't.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979



    Parliament is soverign where as advisory referendum are not!

    Like I said keep deluding yourself. The narrative will be.one of complete betrayal and you Remaniacs will own that
    Delusion is one thing, I could give you insight into that! Actual legal basis and the fundamental basis of law is another. I dont have a problem with a deal as you advocate but i cannot see it happening under BJ! I dont think No Deal is democratically the way to go unless a. confirmatory vote is held!
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Sandpit said:

    There’s a few weird stories out there at the moment about things the media are choosing to report or ignore.

    Apart from Stokes, there’s a royal scandal circulating in often-accurate US ‘blind gossip’ blogs that no-one is picking up either (not Andrew).
    The Epstein shit will hit the fan soon, and a galaxy of scandal will be on offer
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,571



    The boys stayed their welcome in full - and then some - and then proceeded to persuade your ancestors - by means unknown - to adopt my forefather's tongue - the Anglish language - as your new vernacular.

    The means was the introduction of swear words. We still use pretty well the same ones as you now, derived from those of your forefathers, not the Normans. Macron can go f**k himself.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Noo said:

    https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1181625022550597633?s=19

    I said that to a uni friend in 1993. Ought to fix something up I guess

    Probably better for them you don't.
    I'm sure they'd be a better judge of that than you
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Byronic said:

    I am in fact an Anglian. A real Anglian. From the real Anglia.

    I originally hail from a small hamlet near Arnis in Schleswig-Holstein, about halfway between the historic site of Haithabu/Hedeby and the ancestral home of the Duke of Edinburgh's family.
    Right at the heart of the real Anglia, where the real Anglians came from.

    East Anglia should really be called West Anglia. :)
    Ours is the Anglosphere. All your bases are belong to us. ;)
    It is an intense quirk of history, that the world ended up speaking English, and not French, Spanish, Latin, Chinese, Arabic, Hindu....

    Imagine being a Martian and landing on the planet in the 4th, 9th, 12th, 15h century. Imagine you were asked to guess which of the many languages you could hear, would end up dominating the planet, with all the consequences that come with.

    The chances of you, a Martian, pointing to a small wet offshore island, near Europe, would have been minuscule.

    So we Brits must thank you sturdy Anglians, for giving us this cultural hegemony.
    Nothing lasts forever.
    There is a probability greater than zero that in a century from now a different language may be the Lingua Franca.
    I’ve heard it said that by 2050, pretty much the whole world will speak at least one of English and Mandarin to a conversational standard.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    I am in fact an Anglian. A real Anglian. From the real Anglia.

    I originally hail from a small hamlet near Arnis in Schleswig-Holstein, about halfway between the historic site of Haithabu/Hedeby and the ancestral home of the Duke of Edinburgh's family.
    Right at the heart of the real Anglia, where the real Anglians came from.

    East Anglia should really be called West Anglia. :)
    Ours is the Anglosphere. All your bases are belong to us. ;)
    It is an intense quirk of history, that the world ended up speaking English, and not French, Spanish, Latin, Chinese, Arabic, Hindu....

    Imagine being a Martian and landing on the planet in the 4th, 9th, 12th, 15h century. Imagine you were asked to guess which of the many languages you could hear, would end up dominating the planet, with all the consequences that come with.

    The chances of you, a Martian, pointing to a small wet offshore island, near Europe, would have been minuscule.

    So we Brits must thank you sturdy Anglians, for giving us this cultural hegemony.
    Nothing lasts forever.
    There is a probability greater than zero that in a century from now a different language may be the Lingua Franca.
    No, it won't be another language as we understand them. It will be a computer language, and mere humans will have instant translation for everything else.

    But the influence of English will be written into the code that makes the world.
    English is only the third most spoken language after Chinese (obvious definition issues) and Spanish.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Not me, I'm just back from Costco!
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited October 2019
    nichomar said:

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    I am in fact an Anglian. A real Anglian. From the real Anglia.

    I originally hail from a small hamlet near Arnis in Schleswig-Holstein, about halfway between the historic site of Haithabu/Hedeby and the ancestral home of the Duke of Edinburgh's family.
    Right at the heart of the real Anglia, where the real Anglians came from.

    East Anglia should really be called West Anglia. :)
    Ours is the Anglosphere. All your bases are belong to us. ;)
    It is an intense quirk of history, that the world ended up speaking English, and not French, Spanish, Latin, Chinese, Arabic, Hindu....

    Imagine being a Martian and landing on the planet in the 4th, 9th, 12th, 15h century. Imagine you were asked to guess which of the many languages you could hear, would end up dominating the planet, with all the consequences that come with.

    The chances of you, a Martian, pointing to a small wet offshore island, near Europe, would have been minuscule.

    So we Brits must thank you sturdy Anglians, for giving us this cultural hegemony.
    Nothing lasts forever.
    There is a probability greater than zero that in a century from now a different language may be the Lingua Franca.
    No, it won't be another language as we understand them. It will be a computer language, and mere humans will have instant translation for everything else.

    But the influence of English will be written into the code that makes the world.
    English is only the third most spoken language after Chinese (obvious definition issues) and Spanish.
    English is twice as widely spoken as Spanish, although Spanish is the first language of slightly more people
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,678

    Possible outcomes:

    Revoke: democratically disastrous
    Rereferend: highly divisive and a recognition of failure by the political class
    Leave with a deal: discredited
    Leave without a deal: highly disruptive, chaotic and highly divisive.

    Pick your preferred disaster.

    I'd probably Rereferend (I say that as someone who voted Leave). But I'll be damned if I know what the question should be, or the options (two or more) to reach a happy conclusion.
    I'd probably try:
    "Theresa May's Deal - Yes or No?"
    "If result is No, Remain or No Deal?"

    Answer either or both questions.
    It's bad, but lets be honest, just as bad as any other option out there.


  • Parliament is soverign where as advisory referendum are not!

    Like I said keep deluding yourself. The narrative will be.one of complete betrayal and you Remaniacs will own that
    Delusion is one thing, I could give you insight into that! Actual legal basis and the fundamental basis of law is another. I dont have a problem with a deal as you advocate but i cannot see it happening under BJ! I dont think No Deal is democratically the way to go unless a. confirmatory vote is held!
    Just because something is legal does not mean it is either right or wise.

    Suicide is legal but it is not something I would advocate or pursue. Revocation, either with or without a referendum is democracy committing suicide.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    I have four months supply! After that it is the Brexit supporting media i will relie on! :wink:
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    The Chronicle is unable to evaluate the veracity of widespread rumors that Trudeau regularly received fellatio from students while on the private school’s campus.

    This phrase is almost artistic in terms of getting the story out while disclaiming any responsibility for it...
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Possible outcomes:

    Revoke: democratically disastrous
    Rereferend: highly divisive and a recognition of failure by the political class
    Leave with a deal: discredited
    Leave without a deal: highly disruptive, chaotic and highly divisive.

    Pick your preferred disaster.

    I'd probably Rereferend (I say that as someone who voted Leave). But I'll be damned if I know what the question should be, or the options (two or more) to reach a happy conclusion.
    I'd probably try:
    "Theresa May's Deal - Yes or No?"
    "If result is No, Remain or No Deal?"

    Answer either or both questions.
    It's bad, but lets be honest, just as bad as any other option out there.
    Option 1: Revoke
    Option 2: Remain

    Job done.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,730

    nichomar said:

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    I am in fact an Anglian. A real Anglian. From the real Anglia.

    I originally hail from a small hamlet near Arnis in Schleswig-Holstein, about halfway between the historic site of Haithabu/Hedeby and the ancestral home of the Duke of Edinburgh's family.
    Right at the heart of the real Anglia, where the real Anglians came from.

    East Anglia should really be called West Anglia. :)
    Ours is the Anglosphere. All your bases are belong to us. ;)
    It is an intense quirk of history, that the world ended up speaking English, and not French, Spanish, Latin, Chinese, Arabic, Hindu....

    Imagine being a Martian and landing on the planet in the 4th, 9th, 12th, 15h century. Imagine you were asked to guess which of the many languages you could hear, would end up dominating the planet, with all the consequences that come with.

    The chances of you, a Martian, pointing to a small wet offshore island, near Europe, would have been minuscule.

    So we Brits must thank you sturdy Anglians, for giving us this cultural hegemony.
    Nothing lasts forever.
    There is a probability greater than zero that in a century from now a different language may be the Lingua Franca.
    No, it won't be another language as we understand them. It will be a computer language, and mere humans will have instant translation for everything else.

    But the influence of English will be written into the code that makes the world.
    English is only the third most spoken language after Chinese (obvious definition issues) and Spanish.
    English is twice as widely spoken as Spanish, although Spanish is the first language of slightly more people
    But not as widely spoken as Mandarin. You can Canton that being true.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    SunnyJim said:

    I find a deep contradiction in the remainer position.

    If they do eventually succeed in overturning the referendum result before it is implemented they must know that the UK will be an awful and uncooperative member of the EU forever on the periphery. There would be no political gain for any PM to be anything else.

    And I assume their deeper wish would be for the UK to be in the centre of the project without the opt-outs, with the Euro etc etc. The only way that will ever happen is if the UK comes out without a deal and their predictions are proved correct. The UK would readily vote to rejoin in those circumstances.

    Which leads me to the conclusion that remainers are actually terrified of the UK making a success of leaving, without the sky falling in as predicted and consequently never rejoining.

    You are confused because you insist on dividing people into a false pair of categories. If by 'Remainer' you mean people who voted Remain, then it is totally false to assume they are all people who want to overturn the referendum. Very few of them do, or at least very few of them did, until the nutjobs and careerists who were prominent in Vote Leave and Leave.EU changed their minds and redefined leaving the EU as crashing out in chaos. Unsurprisingly, anyone who voted Remain, and anyone who voted Leave but hasn't lost their marbles, are saying: hang on a sec, we agreed to implement the referendum result, not an economic suicide pact and something disastrous for Northern Ireland and for the union generally.

    Of course, you are right that Revoking would be a very bad course, partly for the reasons you give, but if the choice is down to Revoke or Crash Out, then many sensible people will judge that Revoke is the lesser of the two evils.
    Totally support what you are saying Richard. Once the government’s policy is no deal, leavers are not allowed to use the term remainers. Remainers followed Boris into the lobby to vote for brexit at one point, they cannot now be called traitors for rejecting the madness of No Deal. The history books will be clear who exactly lost their senses and let UK down, the promises of the security of an easy deal and more besides to get brexit vote over the line, and now playing on the “don’t you just want this done and over with” when it’s yet another damn lie No Deal will be the end of it. No Deal actually means a failure to deliver on the 2016 win.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Charles said:

    The Chronicle is unable to evaluate the veracity of widespread rumors that Trudeau regularly received fellatio from students while on the private school’s campus.

    This phrase is almost artistic in terms of getting the story out while disclaiming any responsibility for it...
    As their teacher? He must resign if so. As a student? Good luck to him.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Sandpit said:

    There’s a few weird stories out there at the moment about things the media are choosing to report or ignore.

    Apart from Stokes, there’s a royal scandal circulating in often-accurate US ‘blind gossip’ blogs that no-one is picking up either (not Andrew).
    The Epstein shit will hit the fan soon, and a galaxy of scandal will be on offer
    Oh yeah, there’s precisely no chance of there not being a very big black book of scandal left with his lawyer.

    I’m also wondering what Lori Loughlin might have to say to authorities about Hollywood, when it finally dawns on her that she’s going to get several years for college bribery.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Noo said:

    Charles said:

    The Chronicle is unable to evaluate the veracity of widespread rumors that Trudeau regularly received fellatio from students while on the private school’s campus.

    This phrase is almost artistic in terms of getting the story out while disclaiming any responsibility for it...
    As their teacher? He must resign if so. As a student? Good luck to him.
    ...or I could just read the link. Teacher. That's vile if true.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    ydoethur said:

    nichomar said:

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    I am in fact an Anglian. A real Anglian. From the real Anglia.

    I originally hail from a small hamlet near Arnis in Schleswig-Holstein, about halfway between the historic site of Haithabu/Hedeby and the ancestral home of the Duke of Edinburgh's family.
    Right at the heart of the real Anglia, where the real Anglians came from.

    East Anglia should really be called West Anglia. :)
    Ours is the Anglosphere. All your bases are belong to us. ;)
    It is an intense quirk of history, that the world ended up speaking English, and not French, Spanish, Latin, Chinese, Arabic, Hindu....

    Imagine being a Martian and landing on the planet in the 4th, 9th, 12th, 15h century. Imagine you were asked to guess which of the many languages you could hear, would end up dominating the planet, with all the consequences that come with.

    The chances of you, a Martian, pointing to a small wet offshore island, near Europe, would have been minuscule.

    So we Brits must thank you sturdy Anglians, for giving us this cultural hegemony.
    Nothing lasts forever.
    There is a probability greater than zero that in a century from now a different language may be the Lingua Franca.
    No, it won't be another language as we understand them. It will be a computer language, and mere humans will have instant translation for everything else.

    But the influence of English will be written into the code that makes the world.
    English is only the third most spoken language after Chinese (obvious definition issues) and Spanish.
    English is twice as widely spoken as Spanish, although Spanish is the first language of slightly more people
    But not as widely spoken as Mandarin. You can Canton that being true.
    Actually the most recent study has them neck and neck, English slightly ahead when taking first and second language speakers together. As a first language, firmly third.
  • nichomar said:

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    I am in fact an Anglian. A real Anglian. From the real Anglia.

    I originally hail from a small hamlet near Arnis in Schleswig-Holstein, about halfway between the historic site of Haithabu/Hedeby and the ancestral home of the Duke of Edinburgh's family.
    Right at the heart of the real Anglia, where the real Anglians came from.

    East Anglia should really be called West Anglia. :)
    Ours is the Anglosphere. All your bases are belong to us. ;)
    It is an intense quirk of history, that the world ended up speaking English, and not French, Spanish, Latin, Chinese, Arabic, Hindu....

    Imagine being a Martian and landing on the planet in the 4th, 9th, 12th, 15h century. Imagine you were asked to guess which of the many languages you could hear, would end up dominating the planet, with all the consequences that come with.

    The chances of you, a Martian, pointing to a small wet offshore island, near Europe, would have been minuscule.

    So we Brits must thank you sturdy Anglians, for giving us this cultural hegemony.
    Nothing lasts forever.
    There is a probability greater than zero that in a century from now a different language may be the Lingua Franca.
    No, it won't be another language as we understand them. It will be a computer language, and mere humans will have instant translation for everything else.

    But the influence of English will be written into the code that makes the world.
    English is only the third most spoken language after Chinese (obvious definition issues) and Spanish.
    Depends if you are referring only to native Speakers/first language
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    I am in fact an Anglian. A real Anglian. From the real Anglia.

    I originally hail from a small hamlet near Arnis in Schleswig-Holstein, about halfway between the historic site of Haithabu/Hedeby and the ancestral home of the Duke of Edinburgh's family.
    Right at the heart of the real Anglia, where the real Anglians came from.

    East Anglia should really be called West Anglia. :)
    Ours is the Anglosphere. All your bases are belong to us. ;)
    It is an intense quirk of history, that the world ended up speaking English, and not French, Spanish, Latin, Chinese, Arabic, Hindu....

    Imagine being a Martian and landing on the planet in the 4th, 9th, 12th, 15h century. Imagine you were asked to guess which of the many languages you could hear, would end up dominating the planet, with all the consequences that come with.

    The chances of you, a Martian, pointing to a small wet offshore island, near Europe, would have been minuscule.

    So we Brits must thank you sturdy Anglians, for giving us this cultural hegemony.
    Nothing lasts forever.
    There is a probability greater than zero that in a century from now a different language may be the Lingua Franca.
    No, it won't be another language as we understand them. It will be a computer language, and mere humans will have instant translation for everything else.

    But the influence of English will be written into the code that makes the world.
    English is only the third most spoken language after Chinese (obvious definition issues) and Spanish.
    English is twice as widely spoken as Spanish, although Spanish is the first language of slightly more people
    Yes as first language or mother tongue. English is third depending on how you view Chinese dialects
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,730
    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Charles said:

    The Chronicle is unable to evaluate the veracity of widespread rumors that Trudeau regularly received fellatio from students while on the private school’s campus.

    This phrase is almost artistic in terms of getting the story out while disclaiming any responsibility for it...
    As their teacher? He must resign if so. As a student? Good luck to him.
    ...or I could just read the link. Teacher. That's vile if true.
    Wow. If that is as indicated, surely he would face criminal charges?
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,678

    This bloke called it back in July ...
    https://twitter.com/syrpis/status/1154286327699005440

    Jesus. That is absolutely spot on so far. In fact, get the GE and its exactly right.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    ydoethur said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Charles said:

    The Chronicle is unable to evaluate the veracity of widespread rumors that Trudeau regularly received fellatio from students while on the private school’s campus.

    This phrase is almost artistic in terms of getting the story out while disclaiming any responsibility for it...
    As their teacher? He must resign if so. As a student? Good luck to him.
    ...or I could just read the link. Teacher. That's vile if true.
    Wow. If that is as indicated, surely he would face criminal charges?
    Not sure what the law would have been like back then. If it wasn't illegal then, it ought to have been.
  • HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Most likely if the EU does not agree a new Deal by October 19th at the EU council Boris loses a VONC the subsequent week, then either MPs approve a new PM within 14 days, probably Bercow, to extend, then vote for an election or no new PM is agreed and there is a general election anyway

    Question for you - answer to inform my betting.

    If we get a GE, will the Tory manifesto Brexit position be a pure and simple leave asap with No Deal?

    Or will it be fudged up with the possibility of trying one last time to get a Deal but leave with No Deal if that effort fails?

    (Perhaps with the spin that the 'Surrender Act' screwed Johnson's negotiating position this time, so without that, with No Deal back as a credible threat, he remains confident that a Deal is on.)

    Keen to be able to predict this because I think it could potentially make a difference to the GE outcome.
    It will be leave with No Deal unless the EU back down on the backstop (though if the Tories do win a majority I suspect Boris would just remove the GB backstop and let Northern Ireland voters decide by referendum on the NI backstop to get a Deal )
    What exactly is prohibiting him from doing it now?

    Again, he has been actively encouraged to do so.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979



    Parliament is soverign where as advisory referendum are not!

    Like I said keep deluding yourself. The narrative will be.one of complete betrayal and you Remaniacs will own that
    Delusion is one thing, I could give you insight into that! Actual legal basis and the fundamental basis of law is another. I dont have a problem with a deal as you advocate but i cannot see it happening under BJ! I dont think No Deal is democratically the way to go unless a. confirmatory vote is held!
    Just because something is legal does not mean it is either right or wise.

    Suicide is legal but it is not something I would advocate or pursue. Revocation, either with or without a referendum is democracy committing suicide.
    I hope nobody kills themselves over Brexit!

    Many people were for it but you have to remeber many were against as it removed rights!

    You like Brexit because it fit your world view! There are others it did not!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,730

    ydoethur said:

    nichomar said:

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    I am in fact an Anglian. A real Anglian. From the real Anglia.

    I originally hail from a small hamlet near Arnis in Schleswig-Holstein, about halfway between the historic site of Haithabu/Hedeby and the ancestral home of the Duke of Edinburgh's family.
    Right at the heart of the real Anglia, where the real Anglians came from.

    East Anglia should really be called West Anglia. :)
    Ours is the Anglosphere. All your bases are belong to us. ;)
    It is an intense quirk of history, that the world ended up speaking English, and not French, Spanish, Latin, Chinese, Arabic, Hindu....

    Imagine being a Martian and landing on the planet in the 4th, 9th, 12th, 15h century. Imagine you were asked to guess which of the many languages you could hear, would end up dominating the planet, with all the consequences that come with.

    The chances of you, a Martian, pointing to a small wet offshore island, near Europe, would have been minuscule.

    So we Brits must thank you sturdy Anglians, for giving us this cultural hegemony.
    Nothing lasts forever.
    There is a probability greater than zero that in a century from now a different language may be the Lingua Franca.
    No, it won't be another language as we understand them. It will be a computer language, and mere humans will have instant translation for everything else.

    But the influence of English will be written into the code that makes the world.
    English is only the third most spoken language after Chinese (obvious definition issues) and Spanish.
    English is twice as widely spoken as Spanish, although Spanish is the first language of slightly more people
    But not as widely spoken as Mandarin. You can Canton that being true.
    Actually the most recent study has them neck and neck, English slightly ahead when taking first and second language speakers together. As a first language, firmly third.
    It was an attempt at an awesome pun to lighten the mood a bit. I thought some humour might come in Han-dy but it seems to have failed.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,300
    egg said:

    SunnyJim said:

    I find a deep contradiction in the remainer position.

    If they do eventually succeed in overturning the referendum result before it is implemented they must know that the UK will be an awful and uncooperative member of the EU forever on the periphery. There would be no political gain for any PM to be anything else.

    And I assume their deeper wish would be for the UK to be in the centre of the project without the opt-outs, with the Euro etc etc. The only way that will ever happen is if the UK comes out without a deal and their predictions are proved correct. The UK would readily vote to rejoin in those circumstances.

    Which leads me to the conclusion that remainers are actually terrified of the UK making a success of leaving, without the sky falling in as predicted and consequently never rejoining.

    You are confused because you insist on dividing people into a false pair of categories. If by 'Remainer' you mean people who voted Remain, then it is totally false to assume they are all people who want to overturn the referendum. Very few of them do, or at least very few of them did, until the nutjobs and careerists who were prominent in Vote Leave and Leave.EU changed their minds and redefined leaving the EU as crashing out in chaos. Unsurprisingly, anyone who voted Remain, and anyone who voted Leave but hasn't lost their marbles, are saying: hang on a sec, we agreed to implement the referendum result, not an economic suicide pact and something disastrous for Northern Ireland and for the union generally.

    Of course, you are right that Revoking would be a very bad course, partly for the reasons you give, but if the choice is down to Revoke or Crash Out, then many sensible people will judge that Revoke is the lesser of the two evils.
    Totally support what you are saying Richard. Once the government’s policy is no deal, leavers are not allowed to use the term remainers. Remainers followed Boris into the lobby to vote for brexit at one point, they cannot now be called traitors for rejecting the madness of No Deal. The history books will be clear who exactly lost their senses and let UK down, the promises of the security of an easy deal and more besides to get brexit vote over the line, and now playing on the “don’t you just want this done and over with” when it’s yet another damn lie No Deal will be the end of it. No Deal actually means a failure to deliver on the 2016 win.
    No deal is a lie in itself. it's no-deal for now and there'll be decades of negotiations eventually ending somewhere near TMs deal.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited October 2019
    ydoethur said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Charles said:

    The Chronicle is unable to evaluate the veracity of widespread rumors that Trudeau regularly received fellatio from students while on the private school’s campus.

    This phrase is almost artistic in terms of getting the story out while disclaiming any responsibility for it...
    As their teacher? He must resign if so. As a student? Good luck to him.
    ...or I could just read the link. Teacher. That's vile if true.
    Wow. If that is as indicated, surely he would face criminal charges?
    Interesting that the Epstein accuser court papers talk about other individualis among them a 'prominent prime minister'. Murky old world.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Sandpit said:

    There’s a few weird stories out there at the moment about things the media are choosing to report or ignore.

    Apart from Stokes, there’s a royal scandal circulating in often-accurate US ‘blind gossip’ blogs that no-one is picking up either (not Andrew).
    The only one I can think of (not Andrew and Epstein linked) concerns a royal in law rather than a royal as such
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,730

    ydoethur said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Charles said:

    The Chronicle is unable to evaluate the veracity of widespread rumors that Trudeau regularly received fellatio from students while on the private school’s campus.

    This phrase is almost artistic in terms of getting the story out while disclaiming any responsibility for it...
    As their teacher? He must resign if so. As a student? Good luck to him.
    ...or I could just read the link. Teacher. That's vile if true.
    Wow. If that is as indicated, surely he would face criminal charges?
    Interesting that the Epstein accuser court papers talk about other individualis among them a 'prominent prime minister'. Murky old world.
    I am now trying to get my head round the idea of an obscure Prime Minister. Would Rupert Mountjoy fit the bill?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Most likely if the EU does not agree a new Deal by October 19th at the EU council Boris loses a VONC the subsequent week, then either MPs approve a new PM within 14 days, probably Bercow, to extend, then vote for an election or no new PM is agreed and there is a general election anyway

    Question for you - answer to inform my betting.

    If we get a GE, will the Tory manifesto Brexit position be a pure and simple leave asap with No Deal?

    Or will it be fudged up with the possibility of trying one last time to get a Deal but leave with No Deal if that effort fails?

    (Perhaps with the spin that the 'Surrender Act' screwed Johnson's negotiating position this time, so without that, with No Deal back as a credible threat, he remains confident that a Deal is on.)

    Keen to be able to predict this because I think it could potentially make a difference to the GE outcome.
    It will be leave with No Deal unless the EU back down on the backstop (though if the Tories do win a majority I suspect Boris would just remove the GB backstop and let Northern Ireland voters decide by referendum on the NI backstop to get a Deal )
    What exactly is prohibiting him from doing it now?

    Again, he has been actively encouraged to do so.
    As the DUP will veto it
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    nichomar said:

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    I am in fact an Anglian. A real Anglian. From the real Anglia.

    I originally hail from a small hamlet near Arnis in Schleswig-Holstein, about halfway between the historic site of Haithabu/Hedeby and the ancestral home of the Duke of Edinburgh's family.
    Right at the heart of the real Anglia, where the real Anglians came from.

    East Anglia should really be called West Anglia. :)
    Ours is the Anglosphere. All your bases are belong to us. ;)
    It is an intense quirk of history, that the world ended up speaking English, and not French, Spanish, Latin, Chinese, Arabic, Hindu....

    Imagine being a Martian and landing on the planet in the 4th, 9th, 12th, 15h century. Imagine you were asked to guess which of the many languages you could hear, would end up dominating the planet, with all the consequences that come with.

    The chances of you, a Martian, pointing to a small wet offshore island, near Europe, would have been minuscule.

    So we Brits must thank you sturdy Anglians, for giving us this cultural hegemony.
    Nothing lasts forever.
    There is a probability greater than zero that in a century from now a different language may be the Lingua Franca.
    No, it won't be another language as we understand them. It will be a computer language, and mere humans will have instant translation for everything else.

    But the influence of English will be written into the code that makes the world.
    English is only the third most spoken language after Chinese (obvious definition issues) and Spanish.
    English is twice as widely spoken as Spanish, although Spanish is the first language of slightly more people
    But not as widely spoken as Mandarin. You can Canton that being true.
    Actually the most recent study has them neck and neck, English slightly ahead when taking first and second language speakers together. As a first language, firmly third.
    It was an attempt at an awesome pun to lighten the mood a bit. I thought some humour might come in Han-dy but it seems to have failed.
    Sorry I missed the pun! I am easily confuscied
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,861
    Byronic said:


    Why do you not accept that Merkel might, on the evidence we have in front of us, have genuinely said something blunt, clumsy, and forthright?

    It is in keeping with her character. She can be quite cold, and overly analytical when she wants. She is also a scientist: she sees things logically. And the description of her words does give the impression of someone giving a brutally logical and politically unfortunate exposition of the EU's point of view.

    I can see how it might have happened, too. I imagine Boris was full of bonhomie and bluster, and then Merkel got bored of it, and set him straight, but she did it in a rather maladroit and Germanic way.

    Bob's your German uncle. There's your catastrophic phone-call. No need for further conspiracies, on either side.

    I would agree with most of this except for "cold and overly analytical". You could easily repalce "cold" with calm and level headed, the opposite of hot headed. She is analytical, as you say she is a scientist, and unlike Margaret Thatcher actually had a career as a scientist. I have not seen her lose the big picture though, no one accuses her of War Gaming, which I consider to be a synonym for "over analysing".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Charles said:

    The Chronicle is unable to evaluate the veracity of widespread rumors that Trudeau regularly received fellatio from students while on the private school’s campus.

    This phrase is almost artistic in terms of getting the story out while disclaiming any responsibility for it...
    Trudeau is apparently the 'sexiest politician in the world' so no surprise he got plenty of action when younger

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/justin-trudeau-sexiest-politician-world-6666495
  • Henry_CHenry_C Posts: 73
    edited October 2019

    I see Gauke has given up on returning to the Conservative Party then.....
    In its current state? Of course he has. He's not a raving loon.
    A handful of Europhile headbangers got it to that state.

    They will not be missed.
    I dont agree.

    I cannot understand the Brexit psychosis. Rational people have become advocates of implementing the worse deal possible. What has happened to these people?
    Very simple: Brexiteers feel British identity and sovereignty is threatened by the EU, like a slowly boiling frog.
    Leavers understood that the sovereignty that the European Communities Act and subsequent EU treaties had ceded could be got back by leaving the EU. What they didn't understand was that the Good Friday Agreement with another EU member state had also ceded sovereignty. And there is no analogue to an "Article 50" route available for a British withdrawal from the GFA.

    NI must stay in the SM and CU because otherwise there would have to be border checks, which would be in breach of the GFA. Talk of technological solutions and arguments over whether a border counts as a border if it's in a warehouse are cack. Since the GFA signatories won't all agree to meet on the Isle of Man and burn what they signed, Britain has three options: 1) renege on the GFA; 2) revoke, or 3) agree a BINO. A hard Brexit and a crashout count under 1). Unfortunately exactly none of the political parties, and so far none of the 28 governments, and no EU institution, has had the guts to say this.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483



    Parliament is soverign where as advisory referendum are not!

    Like I said keep deluding yourself. The narrative will be.one of complete betrayal and you Remaniacs will own that
    Delusion is one thing, I could give you insight into that! Actual legal basis and the fundamental basis of law is another. I dont have a problem with a deal as you advocate but i cannot see it happening under BJ! I dont think No Deal is democratically the way to go unless a. confirmatory vote is held!
    Just because something is legal does not mean it is either right or wise.

    Suicide is legal but it is not something I would advocate or pursue. Revocation, either with or without a referendum is democracy committing suicide.
    I hope nobody kills themselves over Brexit!

    Many people were for it but you have to remeber many were against as it removed rights!

    You like Brexit because it fit your world view! There are others it did not!
    They already have, inquest verdict this week named fear of brexit a contributing factor.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,730

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    nichomar said:

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    I am in fact an Anglian. A real Anglian. From the real Anglia.

    I originally hail from a small hamlet near Arnis in Schleswig-Holstein, about halfway between the historic site of Haithabu/Hedeby and the ancestral home of the Duke of Edinburgh's family.
    Right at the heart of the real Anglia, where the real Anglians came from.

    East Anglia should really be called West Anglia. :)
    Ours is the Anglosphere. All your bases are belong to us. ;)
    It is an intense quirk of history, that the world ended up speaking English, and not French, Spanish, Latin, Chinese, Arabic, Hindu....

    Imagine being a Martian and landing on the planet in the 4th, 9th, 12th, 15h century. Imagine you were asked to guess which of the many languages you could hear, would end up dominating the planet, with all the consequences that come with.

    The chances of you, a Martian, pointing to a small wet offshore island, near Europe, would have been minuscule.

    So we Brits must thank you sturdy Anglians, for giving us this cultural hegemony.
    Nothing lasts forever.
    There is a probability greater than zero that in a century from now a different language may be the Lingua Franca.
    No, it won't be another language as we understand them. It will be a computer language, and mere humans will have instant translation for everything else.

    But the influence of English will be written into the code that makes the world.
    English is only the third most spoken language after Chinese (obvious definition issues) and Spanish.
    English is twice as widely spoken as Spanish, although Spanish is the first language of slightly more people
    But not as widely spoken as Mandarin. You can Canton that being true.
    Actually the most recent study has them neck and neck, English slightly ahead when taking first and second language speakers together. As a first language, firmly third.
    It was an attempt at an awesome pun to lighten the mood a bit. I thought some humour might come in Han-dy but it seems to have failed.
    Sorry I missed the pun! I am easily confuscied
    That was a pathetic attempt to shanghai the name of a great philosopher :smiley:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,730
    I have to say, the more I hear about Trudeau, the more loathsome he seems. I never knew very much about him hut if what's come out in the last few weeks is in any way accurate this is a man who is unfit to be Clerk to Claresholm Town Council.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Charles said:

    The Chronicle is unable to evaluate the veracity of widespread rumors that Trudeau regularly received fellatio from students while on the private school’s campus.

    This phrase is almost artistic in terms of getting the story out while disclaiming any responsibility for it...
    As their teacher? He must resign if so. As a student? Good luck to him.
    ...or I could just read the link. Teacher. That's vile if true.
    Wow. If that is as indicated, surely he would face criminal charges?
    Interesting that the Epstein accuser court papers talk about other individualis among them a 'prominent prime minister'. Murky old world.
    I am now trying to get my head round the idea of an obscure Prime Minister. Would Rupert Mountjoy fit the bill?
    Lol. There are quite a few PMs of island nations and micro states that are eminently obscure.
    Just reread the court stuff, the actual phrase was 'well known' PM. Outside their own country I guess they mean!
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    nichomar said:

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    I am in fact an Anglian. A real Anglian. From the real Anglia.

    I originally hail from a small hamlet near Arnis in Schleswig-Holstein, about halfway between the historic site of Haithabu/Hedeby and the ancestral home of the Duke of Edinburgh's family.
    Right at the heart of the real Anglia, where the real Anglians came from.

    East Anglia should really be called West Anglia. :)
    Ours is the Anglosphere. All your bases are belong to us. ;)
    It is an intense quirk of history, that the world ended up speaking English, and not French, Spanish, Latin, Chinese, Arabic, Hindu....

    Imagine being a Martian and landing on the planet in the 4th, 9th, 12th, 15h century. Imagine you were asked to guess which of the many languages you could hear, would end up dominating the planet, with all the consequences that come with.

    The chances of you, a Martian, pointing to a small wet offshore island, near Europe, would have been minuscule.

    So we Brits must thank you sturdy Anglians, for giving us this cultural hegemony.
    Nothing lasts forever.
    There is a probability greater than zero that in a century from now a different language may be the Lingua Franca.
    No, it won't be another language as we understand them. It will be a computer language, and mere humans will have instant translation for everything else.

    But the influence of English will be written into the code that makes the world.
    English is only the third most spoken language after Chinese (obvious definition issues) and Spanish.
    English is twice as widely spoken as Spanish, although Spanish is the first language of slightly more people
    But not as widely spoken as Mandarin. You can Canton that being true.
    Actually the most recent study has them neck and neck, English slightly ahead when taking first and second language speakers together. As a first language, firmly third.
    It was an attempt at an awesome pun to lighten the mood a bit. I thought some humour might come in Han-dy but it seems to have failed.
    Sorry I missed the pun! I am easily confuscied
    That was a pathetic attempt to shanghai the name of a great philosopher :smiley:
    Minging comment
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    ydoethur said:

    I have to say, the more I hear about Trudeau, the more loathsome he seems. I never knew very much about him hut if what's come out in the last few weeks is in any way accurate this is a man who is unfit to be Clerk to Claresholm Town Council.

    I don't see he has done any worse than many other politicians have done in their private lives, many of whom have won elections
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,861
    spudgfsh said:

    egg said:

    SunnyJim said:

    I find a deep contradiction in the remainer position.

    If they do eventually succeed in overturning the referendum result before it is implemented they must know that the UK will be an awful and uncooperative member of the EU forever on the periphery. There would be no political gain for any PM to be anything else.

    And I assume their deeper wish would be for the UK to be in the centre of the project without the opt-outs, with the Euro etc etc. The only way that will ever happen is if the UK comes out without a deal and their predictions are proved correct. The UK would readily vote to rejoin in those circumstances.

    Which leads me to the conclusion that remainers are actually terrified of the UK making a success of leaving, without the sky falling in as predicted and consequently never rejoining.

    You are confused because you insist on dividing people into a false pair of categories. If by 'Remainer' you mean people who voted Remain, then it is totally false to assume they are all people who want to overturn the referendum. Very few of them do, or at least very few of them did, until the nutjobs and careerists who were prominent in Vote Leave and Leave.EU changed their minds and redefined leaving the EU as crashing out in chaos. Unsurprisingly, anyone who voted Remain, and anyone who voted Leave but hasn't lost their marbles, are saying: hang on a sec, we agreed to implement the referendum result, not an economic suicide pact and something disastrous for Northern Ireland and for the union generally.

    Of course, you are right that Revoking would be a very bad course, partly for the reasons you give, but if the choice is down to Revoke or Crash Out, then many sensible people will judge that Revoke is the lesser of the two evils.
    Totally support what you are saying Richard. Once the government’s policy is no deal, leavers are not allowed to use the term remainers. Remainers followed Boris into the lobby to vote for brexit at one point, they cannot now be called traitors for rejecting the madness of No Deal. The history books will be clear who exactly lost their senses and let UK down, the promises of the security of an easy deal and more besides to get brexit vote over the line, and now playing on the “don’t you just want this done and over with” when it’s yet another damn lie No Deal will be the end of it. No Deal actually means a failure to deliver on the 2016 win.
    No deal is a lie in itself. it's no-deal for now and there'll be decades of negotiations eventually ending somewhere near TMs deal.
    It means leaving the EU without a deal. If you want to buy a new outfit you don't walk naked to the shops in winter.
  • matthiasfromhamburgmatthiasfromhamburg Posts: 957
    edited October 2019
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Most likely if the EU does not agree a new Deal by October 19th at the EU council Boris loses a VONC the subsequent week, then either MPs approve a new PM within 14 days, probably Bercow, to extend, then vote for an election or no new PM is agreed and there is a general election anyway

    Question for you - answer to inform my betting.

    If we get a GE, will the Tory manifesto Brexit position be a pure and simple leave asap with No Deal?

    Or will it be fudged up with the possibility of trying one last time to get a Deal but leave with No Deal if that effort fails?

    (Perhaps with the spin that the 'Surrender Act' screwed Johnson's negotiating position this time, so without that, with No Deal back as a credible threat, he remains confident that a Deal is on.)

    Keen to be able to predict this because I think it could potentially make a difference to the GE outcome.
    It will be leave with No Deal unless the EU back down on the backstop (though if the Tories do win a majority I suspect Boris would just remove the GB backstop and let Northern Ireland voters decide by referendum on the NI backstop to get a Deal )
    What exactly is prohibiting him from doing it now?

    Again, he has been actively encouraged to do so.
    As the DUP will veto it
    Does the DUP still hold a veto in a situation where his parliamentary majority stands at -43 (or whatever it is today) ?

    He would have to win votes from the sensible moderates anyway.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited October 2019
    Noo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Charles said:

    The Chronicle is unable to evaluate the veracity of widespread rumors that Trudeau regularly received fellatio from students while on the private school’s campus.

    This phrase is almost artistic in terms of getting the story out while disclaiming any responsibility for it...
    As their teacher? He must resign if so. As a student? Good luck to him.
    ...or I could just read the link. Teacher. That's vile if true.
    Wow. If that is as indicated, surely he would face criminal charges?
    Not sure what the law would have been like back then. If it wasn't illegal then, it ought to have been.
    In the U.K., the law raising the age of consent from 16 to 18 where there was a relationship of trust was the Sexual Offences Act 2000. Until then, a sexual relationship between a 30 year old teacher and a 16 year old pupil wasn’t actually illegal.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    nichomar said:



    Parliament is soverign where as advisory referendum are not!

    Like I said keep deluding yourself. The narrative will be.one of complete betrayal and you Remaniacs will own that
    Delusion is one thing, I could give you insight into that! Actual legal basis and the fundamental basis of law is another. I dont have a problem with a deal as you advocate but i cannot see it happening under BJ! I dont think No Deal is democratically the way to go unless a. confirmatory vote is held!
    Just because something is legal does not mean it is either right or wise.

    Suicide is legal but it is not something I would advocate or pursue. Revocation, either with or without a referendum is democracy committing suicide.
    I hope nobody kills themselves over Brexit!

    Many people were for it but you have to remeber many were against as it removed rights!

    You like Brexit because it fit your world view! There are others it did not!
    They already have, inquest verdict this week named fear of brexit a contributing factor.
    Indeed, I think that might be a true reflection of the reality that is Brexit. Is bad.

    Being in a pub this evening , i conclude that brexit is bad and the rest stay silent!
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    ydoethur said:


    That was a pathetic attempt to shanghai the name of a great philosopher :smiley:

    There was a golden period when your puns just seemed to get better and better by the day. No longer so, unfortunately, and the pundits are beginning to murmur that you may have Platoed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Sandpit said:

    Noo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Charles said:

    The Chronicle is unable to evaluate the veracity of widespread rumors that Trudeau regularly received fellatio from students while on the private school’s campus.

    This phrase is almost artistic in terms of getting the story out while disclaiming any responsibility for it...
    As their teacher? He must resign if so. As a student? Good luck to him.
    ...or I could just read the link. Teacher. That's vile if true.
    Wow. If that is as indicated, surely he would face criminal charges?
    Not sure what the law would have been like back then. If it wasn't illegal then, it ought to have been.
    In the U.K., the law raising the age of consent from 16 to 18 where there was a relationship of trust was the Sexual Offences Act 2000. Until then, a sexual relationship between a 30 year old teacher and a 16 year old pupil wasn’t actually illegal.
    Indeed and nor should it be in my view if the affair was with someone over the age of consent, a grounds for a professional misconduct hearing and dismissal from post maybe but not jail
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    I see Gauke has given up on returning to the Conservative Party then.....
    In its current state? Of course he has. He's not a raving loon.
    A handful of Europhile headbangers got it to that state.

    They will not be missed.
    I dont agree.

    I cannot understand the Brexit psychosis. Rational people have become advocates of implementing the worse deal possible. What has happened to these people?
    Very simple: Brexiteers feel British identity and sovereignty is threatened by the EU, like a slowly boiling frog.

    The EU does very very little to assuage these fears.

    So here we are.
    It's not a valid fear, but even if it was, fuck it. Let it boil. Culture is choice. If exposure to other cultures means we end up eating paella, speaking multiple languages, enjoying German opera and Danish beer, it's because we have grown to like those things better than pasties, monolingualism, Billie Piper and Carling.

    The good bits of our culture will get picked up by others, too.

    What a thing to get worked up about. What a blinkered view of the world.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,730
    eristdoof said:

    It means leaving the EU without a deal. If you want to buy a new outfit you don't walk naked to the shops in winter.

    I'm not sure I understand your point, but I may be being distracted by the really weird mental image I have right now.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    ydoethur said:

    I have to say, the more I hear about Trudeau, the more loathsome he seems. I never knew very much about him hut if what's come out in the last few weeks is in any way accurate this is a man who is unfit to be Clerk to Claresholm Town Council.

    A good Town Clerk is worth their weight in gold, so in fairness that's a high bar you've set for him.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Most likely if the EU does not agree a new Deal by October 19th at the EU council Boris loses a VONC the subsequent week, then either MPs approve a new PM within 14 days, probably Bercow, to extend, then vote for an election or no new PM is agreed and there is a general election anyway

    Question for you - answer to inform my betting.

    If we get a GE, will the Tory manifesto Brexit position be a pure and simple leave asap with No Deal?

    Or will it be fudged up with the possibility of trying one last time to get a Deal but leave with No Deal if that effort fails?

    (Perhaps with the spin that the 'Surrender Act' screwed Johnson's negotiating position this time, so without that, with No Deal back as a credible threat, he remains confident that a Deal is on.)

    Keen to be able to predict this because I think it could potentially make a difference to the GE outcome.
    It will be leave with No Deal unless the EU back down on the backstop (though if the Tories do win a majority I suspect Boris would just remove the GB backstop and let Northern Ireland voters decide by referendum on the NI backstop to get a Deal )
    What exactly is prohibiting him from doing it now?

    Again, he has been actively encouraged to do so.
    As the DUP will veto it
    Does the DUP still hold a veto in a situation where his parliamentary majority stands at -43 (or whatever it is today) ?

    He would have to win votes from the sensible moderates anyway.
    Yes it does as it would need at least 10 to 20 Labour MPs to vote for it if the DUP does not and probably more given not every one of the 21 Tory anti No Deal MPs or the ERG would vote for even a NI only backstop WA
  • Henry_C said:

    I see Gauke has given up on returning to the Conservative Party then.....
    In its current state? Of course he has. He's not a raving loon.
    A handful of Europhile headbangers got it to that state.

    They will not be missed.
    I dont agree.

    I cannot understand the Brexit psychosis. Rational people have become advocates of implementing the worse deal possible. What has happened to these people?
    Very simple: Brexiteers feel British identity and sovereignty is threatened by the EU, like a slowly boiling frog.
    Leavers understood that the sovereignty that the European Communities Act and subsequent EU treaties had ceded could be got back by leaving the EU. What they didn't understand was that the Good Friday Agreement with another EU member state had also ceded sovereignty. And there is no analogue to an "Article 50" route available for a British withdrawal from the GFA.

    NI must stay in the SM and CU because otherwise there would have to be border checks, which would be in breach of the GFA. Talk of technological solutions and arguments over whether a border counts as a border if it's in a warehouse are cack. Since the GFA signatories won't all agree to meet on the Isle of Man and burn what they signed, Britain has three options: 1) renege on the GFA; 2) revoke, or 3) agree a BINO. A hard Brexit and a crashout count under 1). Unfortunately exactly none of the political parties, and so far none of the 28 governments, and no EU institution, has had the guts to say this.
    Its very simple - if the British dont put up border posts then they are not in breach of the GFA.

    Will Varadker though?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,730
    Ishmael_Z said:

    ydoethur said:


    That was a pathetic attempt to shanghai the name of a great philosopher :smiley:

    There was a golden period when your puns just seemed to get better and better by the day. No longer so, unfortunately, and the pundits are beginning to murmur that you may have Platoed.
    I'm getting older, and finding new puns gets more difficult as a result of the Aegean process.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    I have to say, the more I hear about Trudeau, the more loathsome he seems. I never knew very much about him hut if what's come out in the last few weeks is in any way accurate this is a man who is unfit to be Clerk to Claresholm Town Council.

    I don't see he has done any worse than many other politicians have done in their private lives, many of whom have won elections
    Trying to make Johnson’s indiscretions seem normal in the political world then.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Yes voters increasingly like Boris' Deal and prefer No Deal to further extension if the EU reject it
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Noo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Charles said:

    The Chronicle is unable to evaluate the veracity of widespread rumors that Trudeau regularly received fellatio from students while on the private school’s campus.

    This phrase is almost artistic in terms of getting the story out while disclaiming any responsibility for it...
    As their teacher? He must resign if so. As a student? Good luck to him.
    ...or I could just read the link. Teacher. That's vile if true.
    Wow. If that is as indicated, surely he would face criminal charges?
    Not sure what the law would have been like back then. If it wasn't illegal then, it ought to have been.
    In the U.K., the law raising the age of consent from 16 to 18 where there was a relationship of trust was the Sexual Offences Act 2000. Until then, a sexual relationship between a 30 year old teacher and a 16 year old pupil wasn’t actually illegal.
    Indeed and nor should it be in my view if the affair was with someone over the age of consent, a grounds for a professional misconduct hearing and dismissal from post maybe but not jail
    How long will you have a ass as pictured or dont you know?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,116

    Henry_C said:

    I see Gauke has given up on returning to the Conservative Party then.....
    In its current state? Of course he has. He's not a raving loon.
    A handful of Europhile headbangers got it to that state.

    They will not be missed.
    I dont agree.

    I cannot understand the Brexit psychosis. Rational people have become advocates of implementing the worse deal possible. What has happened to these people?
    Very simple: Brexiteers feel British identity and sovereignty is threatened by the EU, like a slowly boiling frog.
    Leavers understood that the sovereignty that the European Communities Act and subsequent EU treaties had ceded could be got back by leaving the EU. What they didn't understand was that the Good Friday Agreement with another EU member state had also ceded sovereignty. And there is no analogue to an "Article 50" route available for a British withdrawal from the GFA.

    NI must stay in the SM and CU because otherwise there would have to be border checks, which would be in breach of the GFA. Talk of technological solutions and arguments over whether a border counts as a border if it's in a warehouse are cack. Since the GFA signatories won't all agree to meet on the Isle of Man and burn what they signed, Britain has three options: 1) renege on the GFA; 2) revoke, or 3) agree a BINO. A hard Brexit and a crashout count under 1). Unfortunately exactly none of the political parties, and so far none of the 28 governments, and no EU institution, has had the guts to say this.
    Its very simple - if the British dont put up border posts then they are not in breach of the GFA.

    Will Varadker though?
    So you are in favour of no border controls elsewhere (e.g. at airports and seaports on the British mainland)?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,730
    edited October 2019
    Noo said:

    If exposure to other cultures means we end up...enjoying German opera

    The rest I can take or leave but the idea that anyone other than a masochist can enjoy German opera is just extraordinary.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,741
    HYUFD said:



    Trudeau is apparently the 'sexiest politician in the world' so no surprise he got plenty of action when younger

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/justin-trudeau-sexiest-politician-world-6666495

    The current national rolling polls show a virtual dead-heat between the Liberals and Conservatives with the latter between 0.2 and 0.5% ahead while the weekly Ipsos poll turned a 3% Conservative lead into a 1% Liberal lead.

    We've also had a Quebec poll - the province has 78 ridings so just under a quarter of the total. in 2015, Trudeau's Liberals won 40 seats on 36% of the vote with the NDP winning 16 seats, the Conservatives 12 and Bloc Quebecois (BQ) 10 seats.

    The current poll shows the Liberals on 35% (-1) with BQ on 27% (+8), the Conservatives on 17% (nc), NDP on 11% (-14) and the Greens on 7% (+5). It looks a question of how many of the 16 NDP seats will fall and to whom with BQ also set to make gains while both Liberals and Conservatives may fall back slightly.

    I'd still argue the Liberals as largest party but short of a majority looks the likeliest outcome with the Conservatives a close second.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,911
    Noo said:

    I see Gauke has given up on returning to the Conservative Party then.....
    In its current state? Of course he has. He's not a raving loon.
    A handful of Europhile headbangers got it to that state.

    They will not be missed.
    I dont agree.

    I cannot understand the Brexit psychosis. Rational people have become advocates of implementing the worse deal possible. What has happened to these people?
    Very simple: Brexiteers feel British identity and sovereignty is threatened by the EU, like a slowly boiling frog.

    The EU does very very little to assuage these fears.

    So here we are.
    It's not a valid fear, but even if it was, fuck it. Let it boil. Culture is choice. If exposure to other cultures means we end up eating paella, speaking multiple languages, enjoying German opera and Danish beer, it's because we have grown to like those things better than pasties, monolingualism, Billie Piper and Carling.

    The good bits of our culture will get picked up by others, too.

    What a thing to get worked up about. What a blinkered view of the world.
    Culture isn't just about paella and opera, where other countries clearly excel and Britain offers weak competition.

    However, we have a pretty good track record when it comes to liberal democracy and a fair and impartial legal system, which is more than can be said for some of our friends on the continent.

    Those are not things I fancy getting diluted into a less representative and less democratic system just so the likes of you can enjoy a bit of paella.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    What’s weak Boris up to tonight?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited October 2019
    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    I have to say, the more I hear about Trudeau, the more loathsome he seems. I never knew very much about him hut if what's come out in the last few weeks is in any way accurate this is a man who is unfit to be Clerk to Claresholm Town Council.

    I don't see he has done any worse than many other politicians have done in their private lives, many of whom have won elections
    Trying to make Johnson’s indiscretions seem normal in the political world then.
    Trudeau, Lloyd George, Boris, Berlusconi, Mitterand, Chirac, Hollande, JFK, Bill Clinton, Donald Trump, Bob Hawke, LBJ, plenty of successful leaders have had colourful private lives and multiple affairs or even allegations made against them, I would not want them as pope but that does not mean they cannot be effective politicians
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,741
    HYUFD said:

    Yes voters increasingly like Boris' Deal and prefer No Deal to further extension if the EU reject it
    Well, it's an improvement but still a long way from a ringing endorsement with almost as big a rise in DK as positive.

    I'm not quite sure how you reach the second conclusion from that poll.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,300
    eristdoof said:

    spudgfsh said:

    No deal is a lie in itself. it's no-deal for now and there'll be decades of negotiations eventually ending somewhere near TMs deal.

    It means leaving the EU without a deal. If you want to buy a new outfit you don't walk naked to the shops in winter.
    That, with respect, is meaningless twaddle.

    no-deal means that we will still have to trade with the EU and they will expect the £39Bn to be paid. They will also expect the NI border to be dealt with early on. Also with citizens rights. Even if we have left with no-deal these things will still be the first things on the table and we will need to have a free trade agreement in the long run so regardless of what happens in the next couple of weeks we will need to deal with them.

    thinking that we won't is naive in the extreme. and not doing a FTA is not possible long term.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,730

    What’s weak Boris up to tonight?

    That's a question I don't think we want an answer to, for fear of information overload.
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    I have to say, the more I hear about Trudeau, the more loathsome he seems. I never knew very much about him hut if what's come out in the last few weeks is in any way accurate this is a man who is unfit to be Clerk to Claresholm Town Council.

    I don't see he has done any worse than many other politicians have done in their private lives, many of whom have won elections
    Trying to make Johnson’s indiscretions seem normal in the political world then.
    The rise of puritanical bores is not a good thing.

    No booze, no meat, no holidays, no bonking...

    Dull as feck.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Who are the 31% under the impression that Johnson “has a deal”?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,955
    PClipp said:

    spudgfsh said:

    I see Gauke has given up on returning to the Conservative Party then.....
    In its current state? Of course he has. He's not a raving loon.
    A handful of Europhile headbangers got it to that state.

    They will not be missed.
    The conservative party has been pulling in different directions on Europe at the edges for 35 years. it's amazing when moderate centre right conservatives are considered europhile headbangers. It's been the ERG that's been banging on about europe for all of that time not the Europhiles, especially following the ERM debacle.
    Those Europhiles have had a sway mssively out of proportion to the number of voters they represent. Should have been cast adrift 35 years ago.
    They should have been encouraged to join the SDP when first it formed.
    You may or may not know how that "encouragement" happened.....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Noo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Charles said:

    The Chronicle is unable to evaluate the veracity of widespread rumors that Trudeau regularly received fellatio from students while on the private school’s campus.

    This phrase is almost artistic in terms of getting the story out while disclaiming any responsibility for it...
    As their teacher? He must resign if so. As a student? Good luck to him.
    ...or I could just read the link. Teacher. That's vile if true.
    Wow. If that is as indicated, surely he would face criminal charges?
    Not sure what the law would have been like back then. If it wasn't illegal then, it ought to have been.
    In the U.K., the law raising the age of consent from 16 to 18 where there was a relationship of trust was the Sexual Offences Act 2000. Until then, a sexual relationship between a 30 year old teacher and a 16 year old pupil wasn’t actually illegal.
    Indeed and nor should it be in my view if the affair was with someone over the age of consent, a grounds for a professional misconduct hearing and dismissal from post maybe but not jail
    It’s a difficult one, from memory there were a number of cases that were clearly coercive or exploitative, and the new law is more straightforward to prosecute than offences such as rape or false imprisonment.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    HYUFD said:

    Yes voters increasingly like Boris' Deal and prefer No Deal to further extension if the EU reject it
    What deal? There is no “Boris Deal”. There is only a Boris Offer.
  • Boris can shag who he likes - I just wish he didn't pay for it with my money.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Most likely if the EU does not agree a new Deal by October 19th at the EU council Boris loses a VONC the subsequent week, then either MPs approve a new PM within 14 days, probably Bercow, to extend, then vote for an election or no new PM is agreed and there is a general election anyway

    Question for you - answer to inform my betting.

    If we get a GE, will the Tory manifesto Brexit position be a pure and simple leave asap with No Deal?

    Or will it be fudged up with the possibility of trying one last time to get a Deal but leave with No Deal if that effort fails?

    (Perhaps with the spin that the 'Surrender Act' screwed Johnson's negotiating position this time, so without that, with No Deal back as a credible threat, he remains confident that a Deal is on.)

    Keen to be able to predict this because I think it could potentially make a difference to the GE outcome.
    It will be leave with No Deal unless the EU back down on the backstop (though if the Tories do win a majority I suspect Boris would just remove the GB backstop and let Northern Ireland voters decide by referendum on the NI backstop to get a Deal )
    What exactly is prohibiting him from doing it now?

    Again, he has been actively encouraged to do so.
    As the DUP will veto it
    Does the DUP still hold a veto in a situation where his parliamentary majority stands at -43 (or whatever it is today) ?

    He would have to win votes from the sensible moderates anyway.
    Yes it does as it would need at least 10 to 20 Labour MPs to vote for it if the DUP does not and probably more given not every one of the 21 Tory anti No Deal MPs or the ERG would vote for even a NI only backstop WA
    Maybe observing British politics from afar is clouding my view too much, but I find it virtually inconceivable that it should not be possible to find two dozen moderate, sensible, responsible MPs of any colour who are prepared to put the stability and security of NI before any other considerations.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    TGOHF2 said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    I have to say, the more I hear about Trudeau, the more loathsome he seems. I never knew very much about him hut if what's come out in the last few weeks is in any way accurate this is a man who is unfit to be Clerk to Claresholm Town Council.

    I don't see he has done any worse than many other politicians have done in their private lives, many of whom have won elections
    Trying to make Johnson’s indiscretions seem normal in the political world then.
    The rise of puritanical bores is not a good thing.

    No booze, no meat, no holidays, no bonking...

    Dull as feck.
    Yes unless it was illegal we do not need nor will we get Saints as politicians
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Incidentally, today's slump in the value of Sterling increases the pound-denominated-value of the Euromillions jackpot by about three-quarters of a million pounds.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:



    Trudeau is apparently the 'sexiest politician in the world' so no surprise he got plenty of action when younger

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/justin-trudeau-sexiest-politician-world-6666495

    The current national rolling polls show a virtual dead-heat between the Liberals and Conservatives with the latter between 0.2 and 0.5% ahead while the weekly Ipsos poll turned a 3% Conservative lead into a 1% Liberal lead.

    We've also had a Quebec poll - the province has 78 ridings so just under a quarter of the total. in 2015, Trudeau's Liberals won 40 seats on 36% of the vote with the NDP winning 16 seats, the Conservatives 12 and Bloc Quebecois (BQ) 10 seats.

    The current poll shows the Liberals on 35% (-1) with BQ on 27% (+8), the Conservatives on 17% (nc), NDP on 11% (-14) and the Greens on 7% (+5). It looks a question of how many of the 16 NDP seats will fall and to whom with BQ also set to make gains while both Liberals and Conservatives may fall back slightly.

    I'd still argue the Liberals as largest party but short of a majority looks the likeliest outcome with the Conservatives a close second.
    Yes it looks like Trudeau will lose his majority but stay leader of the largest party, just and remain PM propped up by the NDP and BQ
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,300
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes voters increasingly like Boris' Deal and prefer No Deal to further extension if the EU reject it
    What deal? There is no “Boris Deal”. There is only a Boris Offer.
    No, there is the boris 'shit on the rug'
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