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  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    So Boris "moving the Overton window" achieved bigger all? What a shock!
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    edited October 2019
    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    I just have a weird feeling that the talks between Varadkar and Johnson might produce something that leads to a deal .

    Call me nuts but I just think we might all be surprised.

    Whatever side of the debate you’re on the only chance to save the country from spilling into even more toxicity and polarization is a deal .

    We must return to a time when politics was more dull , I admit the drama over the last few years and the nail biting Commons votes has been like Christmas to political junkies of which there are many here myself included but I think enough is enough now .

    Remainers like myself might detest Brexit , but this battle now can’t be won , too much has happened .

    The EU simply can’t have the UK remaining , in a constant state of internal warfare with each election turning into a proxy on it .

    I want a good relationship with the EU and the UK to return to some degree of sanity .

    Only a deal can now get us to this point .

    A no deal or another referendum will never deliver any kind of closure .

    I don't agree. Having that wretched crook in office for the next five years is the worst of all worlds and if he strikes a deal -which will take years to unravel anyway -will almost certainly win him an election
    I understand your point . Johnson is indeed a wretched crook but I just can’t see how we can stay in the EU now after all that’s happened .

    I’m seriously worried about no deal more than Remain now . There just aren’t any good options left that don’t leave the country in a toxic mess .

    A deal which both sides moan about but can live with is probably the least worst option .
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited October 2019
    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    I just have a weird feeling that the talks between Varadkar and Johnson might produce something that leads to a deal .

    Call me nuts but I just think we might all be surprised.

    Whatever side of the debate you’re on the only chance to save the country from spilling into even more toxicity and polarization is a deal .

    We must return to a time when politics was more dull , I admit the drama over the last few years and the nail biting Commons votes has been like Christmas to political junkies of which there are many here myself included but I think enough is enough now .

    Remainers like myself might detest Brexit , but this battle now can’t be won , too much has happened .

    The EU simply can’t have the UK remaining , in a constant state of internal warfare with each election turning into a proxy on it .

    I want a good relationship with the EU and the UK to return to some degree of sanity .

    Only a deal can now get us to this point .

    A no deal or another referendum will never deliver any kind of closure .

    I don't agree. Having that wretched crook in office for the next five years is the worst of all worlds and if he strikes a deal -which will take years to unravel anyway -will almost certainly win him an election
    On the contrary, he will gain back a number of moderate tories but lose the Brexit party crowd when things are not universally perfect. But your answer does illustrate another reason why there will be no deal, as others will fear the same outcome. Winning at all costs has been very destructive, but the point of no return has been crossed - no deal or remain are not great choices, but realistically are all we have now.
  • Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    I just have a weird feeling that the talks between Varadkar and Johnson might produce something that leads to a deal .

    Call me nuts but I just think we might all be surprised.

    Whatever side of the debate you’re on the only chance to save the country from spilling into even more toxicity and polarization is a deal .

    We must return to a time when politics was more dull , I admit the drama over the last few years and the nail biting Commons votes has been like Christmas to political junkies of which there are many here myself included but I think enough is enough now .

    Remainers like myself might detest Brexit , but this battle now can’t be won , too much has happened .

    The EU simply can’t have the UK remaining , in a constant state of internal warfare with each election turning into a proxy on it .

    I want a good relationship with the EU and the UK to return to some degree of sanity .

    Only a deal can now get us to this point .

    A no deal or another referendum will never deliver any kind of closure .

    I don't agree. Having that wretched crook in office for the next five years is the worst of all worlds and if he strikes a deal -which will take years to unravel anyway -will almost certainly win him an election
    To be honest Roger I do wonder if succeeding with Brexit might be Boris's downfall. Much of his current support looks to be coming from those who believe he is the only one who will get us out. Once we are out I think much of that support will evaporate.

    I know Boris loves his Churchill comparisons and much as I hate to indulge him in that, I do wonder if the one way he might end up copying Churchill is by being unceremoniously dumped by the electorate once he has served his purpose.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    I just have a weird feeling that the talks between Varadkar and Johnson might produce something that leads to a deal .

    Call me nuts but I just think we might all be surprised.

    Whatever side of the debate you’re on the only chance to save the country from spilling into even more toxicity and polarization is a deal .

    We must return to a time when politics was more dull , I admit the drama over the last few years and the nail biting Commons votes has been like Christmas to political junkies of which there are many here myself included but I think enough is enough now .

    Remainers like myself might detest Brexit , but this battle now can’t be won , too much has happened .

    The EU simply can’t have the UK remaining , in a constant state of internal warfare with each election turning into a proxy on it .

    I want a good relationship with the EU and the UK to return to some degree of sanity .

    Only a deal can now get us to this point .

    A no deal or another referendum will never deliver any kind of closure .

    I don't agree. Having that wretched crook in office for the next five years is the worst of all worlds and if he strikes a deal -which will take years to unravel anyway -will almost certainly win him an election
    I shouldn't worry. Cummings is planning a flounce bounce for the summit.

    https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/1181920646709817349?s=19
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    IanB2 said:

    I wonder why supporting your party by displaying a poster is a dying habit in the UK yet seems the norm in the US?

    Polarisation in the UK is weakening existing party bonds because there are more than two parties and the polarisation crosses the existing party affiliation, but in the US it has the opposite effect because there are only two parties and the parties intersect more closely with the polarisation.

    Partly this is because the US started down this road decades ahead of us.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Gabs2 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Drutt said:

    isam said:



    That's just plain wrong. In any case, I dont think the attempt to get it to catch on is working.

    https://twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1181443140143779840

    £110 billion a year of damage in five years' time, according to the IFS:

    https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/14421
    The idea that a no-deal exit, even on the IFS's doomsday predictor, is more damaging is pretty disgraceful. Nobody on here backed the 'Krauts' poster yesterday and I think you'd be wise to withdraw your above line of argument, which is the other cheek of the same ambiguously-wiped arse.
    This is a constant theme on PB. Every time I argue for compromise from both sides, the only people attacking me are Remainers.
    Yes. Because you're the most obvious concern troll that pb has had in months, parroting Leave lines to take uncritically.
    That must be why I criticized prorogation on a number of occasions, have continuously advocated CU membership and thoroughly condemned the racist Leave.EU poster yesterday.

    I often wonder if extremists know they are extremists or genuinely see themselves as reasonable. I still can't tell with you. You really seem to think that anyone who doesn't believe every line in the arch-Remainer playbook is some sort of plant. No, some people just take each debate on a case by case basis. I know that is a hard topic for ideologues.
    You claim to be a Remainer yet you uncritically parrot every anti-EU line going, cheerlead for the Prime Minister and find an objection to anything advocated by other Remain supporters. It's pretty easy to spot a troll. Just be true to your views, which would command more respect if they were presented with a more realistic persona.
    Now you are just making up lies. I don't like Boris. I think he is a lazy charlatan and was reckless with the prorogation. I have said this on here multiple times. I have never cheered for him in any way. You are just imagining that I do because your mental view of the world is so ideological you have to make up facts to justify it.
    In your last day you have taken Boris Johnson's side against Angela Merkel, Boris Johnson's side arguing that he has put forward a deal and the EU has not responded appropriately, and argued in detail for his version of the backstop in Northern Ireland.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Gabs2 said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    I just have a weird feeling that the talks between Varadkar and Johnson might produce something that leads to a deal .

    Call me nuts but I just think we might all be surprised.

    Whatever side of the debate you’re on the only chance to save the country from spilling into even more toxicity and polarization is a deal .

    We must return to a time when politics was more dull , I admit the drama over the last few years and the nail biting Commons votes has been like Christmas to political junkies of which there are many here myself included but I think enough is enough now .

    Remainers like myself might detest Brexit , but this battle now can’t be won , too much has happened .

    The EU simply can’t have the UK remaining , in a constant state of internal warfare with each election turning into a proxy on it .

    I want a good relationship with the EU and the UK to return to some degree of sanity .

    Only a deal can now get us to this point .

    A no deal or another referendum will never deliver any kind of closure .

    I do so hope you are right.
    Thanks . I don’t think enough people realize that Remaining is now no longer an option .

    You won’t find many people as pro EU as myself however I think the UK is now entering a very dark chapter if this polarization gets even worse .

    Because for politicians winning at all costs is sadly ignoring the damage to the country .

    I’ve no doubt that a general election before Brexit will be the ugliest we’ve ever seen , that Johnson and Cummings will resort to further dividing the country and what’s left at the end .

    A deal and an orderly exit means we can move on to the future relationship , this area is less toxic and divisive . Leave voters and Remainers won’t be stuck throwing rocks at each other , there indeed could be a decent cross over between them in their views on things like workers rights , the environment, food standards .
    100% agree. Every single MP should now be supporting a deal and doing what they can to find a deal with a majority.
    Thanks . I really hope you’re right . We wouldn’t be in this situation if MPs had actually thought Leave might win and put down some parameters as in it had to be a cross party negotiation. The Commons should have agreed what the UK wanted and delivered a coherent message to the EU.


  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,911
    Fenster said:

    Love the fact that the French are insisting on adding conditions to the extension, including dictating when we should hold a GE.

    The Benn Act has fucked the UK govt. It's disgraceful really.

    If the government could be trusted to only deliver Brexit with a deal as the leave campaign stated would be the case then the Benn Act would mot have been necessary. It became necessary because nobody trusts Cummings and Johnson as far as they could throw them.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Three years ago quite a lot of British people were talking about putting their French properties up for sale. Now my estate agency friend tells me the British are buying again and selling their English properties with a view to moving permanently
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    Roger said:

    Three years ago quite a lot of British people were talking about putting their French properties up for sale. Now my estate agency friend tells me the British are buying again and selling their English properties with a view to moving permanently

    Don’t tell Philip Thompson. He thinks we are all obsessed with moving to Australia
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    I just have a weird feeling that the talks between Varadkar and Johnson might produce something that leads to a deal .

    Call me nuts but I just think we might all be surprised.

    Whatever side of the debate you’re on the only chance to save the country from spilling into even more toxicity and polarization is a deal .

    We must return to a time when politics was more dull , I admit the drama over the last few years and the nail biting Commons votes has been like Christmas to political junkies of which there are many here myself included but I think enough is enough now .

    Remainers like myself might detest Brexit , but this battle now can’t be won , too much has happened .

    The EU simply can’t have the UK remaining , in a constant state of internal warfare with each election turning into a proxy on it .

    I want a good relationship with the EU and the UK to return to some degree of sanity .

    Only a deal can now get us to this point .

    A no deal or another referendum will never deliver any kind of closure .

    I don't agree. Having that wretched crook in office for the next five years is the worst of all worlds and if he strikes a deal -which will take years to unravel anyway -will almost certainly win him an election
    I shouldn't worry. Cummings is planning a flounce bounce for the summit.

    https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/1181920646709817349?s=19
    Phew!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Fenster said:

    Love the fact that the French are insisting on adding conditions to the extension, including dictating when we should hold a GE.

    The Benn Act has fucked the UK govt. It's disgraceful really.

    It's not nice, but given all the UK parties agree they want a GE just not on when, it is not that outrageous to seek a committment that we will actually do it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited October 2019
    I must say I have a bit of a pet peeve about people using twitter handles as part of a statement. I cannot say it is unreasonable given the statements are made on twitter, and in this case the handles are not egregious anyway (for two of them being just their name) but when I see something like "This is a totally outrageous comment from @realdonaldtrump, shame on him" something about it irritates me, like the statement loses something. Like, just refer to him by name, do you care if he actually gets notified of you mentioning him (or however twitter works)?

    I know it doesn't make much sense.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,587

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    I just have a weird feeling that the talks between Varadkar and Johnson might produce something that leads to a deal .

    Call me nuts but I just think we might all be surprised.

    Whatever side of the debate you’re on the only chance to save the country from spilling into even more toxicity and polarization is a deal .

    We must return to a time when politics was more dull , I admit the drama over the last few years and the nail biting Commons votes has been like Christmas to political junkies of which there are many here myself included but I think enough is enough now .

    Remainers like myself might detest Brexit , but this battle now can’t be won , too much has happened .

    The EU simply can’t have the UK remaining , in a constant state of internal warfare with each election turning into a proxy on it .

    I want a good relationship with the EU and the UK to return to some degree of sanity .

    Only a deal can now get us to this point .

    A no deal or another referendum will never deliver any kind of closure .

    I don't agree. Having that wretched crook in office for the next five years is the worst of all worlds and if he strikes a deal -which will take years to unravel anyway -will almost certainly win him an election
    To be honest Roger I do wonder if succeeding with Brexit might be Boris's downfall. Much of his current support looks to be coming from those who believe he is the only one who will get us out. Once we are out I think much of that support will evaporate.

    I know Boris loves his Churchill comparisons and much as I hate to indulge him in that, I do wonder if the one way he might end up copying Churchill is by being unceremoniously dumped by the electorate once he has served his purpose.
    If Johnson succeeds with a deal he is in for the long haul. Brexit by this means with be death by a thousand cuts. Much better to no deal and face the consequences (good or bad) quickly. The healing can only begin once we leave. If it is as bad as expected Johnson will own Brexit and Brexit will be his legacy. If Brexit is OK many of us will owe Johnson and HYUFD a massive apology.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    edited October 2019

    In your last day you have taken Boris Johnson's side against Angela Merkel, Boris Johnson's side arguing that he has put forward a deal and the EU has not responded appropriately, and argued in detail for his version of the backstop in Northern Ireland.

    Other day talked about the polarisation as "Eurosceptics vs Europhiles".

    It's the small stuff that's the hardest sometimes when you're undercover.
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268
    edited October 2019

    Gabs2 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Drutt said:

    isam said:



    That's just plain wrong. In any case, I dont think the attempt to get it to catch on is working.

    https://twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1181443140143779840

    £110 billion a year of damage in five years' time, according to the IFS:

    https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/14421
    d arse.
    This is a constant theme on PB. Every time I argue for compromise from both sides, the only people attacking me are Remainers.
    Yes. Because you're the most obvious concern troll that pb has had in months, parroting Leave lines to take uncritically.
    That must be why I criticized prorogation on a number of occasions, have continuously advocated CU membership and thoroughly condemned the racist Leave.EU poster yesterday.

    I often wonder if extremists know they are extremists or genuinely see themselves as reasonable. I still can't tell with you. You really seem to think that anyone who doesn't believe every line in the arch-Remainer playbook is some sort of plant. No, some people just take each debate on a case by case basis. I know that is a hard topic for ideologues.
    You claim to be a Remainer yet you uncritically parrot every anti-EU line going, cheerlead for the Prime Minister and find an objection to anything advocated by other Remain supporters. It's pretty easy to spot a troll. Just be true to your views, which would command more respect if they were presented with a more realistic persona.
    Now you are just making up lies. I don't like Boris. I think he is a lazy charlatan and was reckless with the prorogation. I have said this on here multiple times. I have never cheered for him in any way. You are just imagining that I do because your mental view of the world is so ideological you have to make up facts to justify it.
    In your last day you have taken Boris Johnson's side against Angela Merkel, Boris Johnson's side arguing that he has put forward a deal and the EU has not responded appropriately, and argued in detail for his version of the backstop in Northern Ireland.
    I have long been explicitly in favour of compromise. Boris moved his position towards the EU and the EU did not move in. If the EU moved in and Boris did not, I would be targeting fire towards Boris.

    But there is a difference between praising an action and praising a person. You in your ideology cannot understand the difference.
  • JackW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Brexit Party handing out newspapers outside the BBC

    Der Sturmer ?!?
    The New European
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268
    kinabalu said:

    In your last day you have taken Boris Johnson's side against Angela Merkel, Boris Johnson's side arguing that he has put forward a deal and the EU has not responded appropriately, and argued in detail for his version of the backstop in Northern Ireland.

    Other day talked about the polarisation as "Eurosceptics vs Europhiles".

    It's the small stuff that's the hardest sometimes when you're undercover.
    You accused me of being biased for not using the word 'Europhobe'. This is the ridiculous position arch Remainers now make.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Gabs2 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Gabs2 said:



    This is a constant theme on PB. Every time I argue for compromise from both sides, the only people attacking me are Remainers.

    Yes. Because you're the most obvious concern troll that pb has had in months, parroting Leave lines to take uncritically.
    That must be why I criticized prorogation on a number of occasions, have continuously advocated CU membership and thoroughly condemned the racist Leave.EU poster yesterday.

    I often wonder if extremists know they are extremists or genuinely see themselves as reasonable. I still can't tell with you. You really seem to think that anyone who doesn't believe every line in the arch-Remainer playbook is some sort of plant. No, some people just take each debate on a case by case basis. I know that is a hard topic for ideologues.
    You claim to be a Remainer yet you uncritically parrot every anti-EU line going, cheerlead for the Prime Minister and find an objection to anything advocated by other Remain supporters. It's pretty easy to spot a troll. Just be true to your views, which would command more respect if they were presented with a more realistic persona.
    Now you are just making up lies. I don't like Boris. I think he is a lazy charlatan and was reckless with the prorogation. I have said this on here multiple times. I have never cheered for him in any way. You are just imagining that I do because your mental view of the world is so ideological you have to make up facts to justify it.
    In your last day you have taken Boris Johnson's side against Angela Merkel, Boris Johnson's side arguing that he has put forward a deal and the EU has not responded appropriately, and argued in detail for his version of the backstop in Northern Ireland.
    I have long been explicitly in favour of compromise. Boris moved his position towards the EU and the EU did not move in. If the EU moved in and Boris did not, I would be targeting fire towards Boris.

    But there is a difference between praising an action and praising a person. You in your ideology cannot understand the difference.
    You are so blind to your obvious giveaways. The idea that what Boris Johnson set out was remotely a basis for discussion requires a one-eyed Leave perspective.

    If Britain wants to move from the previously agreed deal it needs to offer something worked through that met the EU’s concerns. This did not come close to either. Of course the EU wasn’t going to engage with it.

    But as a Leaver your inability to see the EU’s perspective makes that impossible for you to see.
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,429
    Gabs2 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Drutt said:

    isam said:



    That's just plain wrong. In any case, I dont think the attempt to get it to catch on is working.

    https://twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1181443140143779840

    £110 billion a year of damage in five years' time, according to the IFS:

    https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/14421
    d arse.
    This is a constant theme on PB. Every time I argue for compromise from both sides, the only people attacking me are Remainers.
    Yes. Because you're the most obvious concern troll that pb has had in months, parroting Leave lines to take uncritically.
    That must be why I criticized prorogation on a number of occasions, have continuously advocated CU membership and thoroughly condemned the racist Leave.EU poster yesterday.

    I often wonder if extremists know they are extremists or genuinely see themselves as reasonable. I still can't tell with you. You really seem to think that anyone who doesn't believe every line in the arch-Remainer playbook is some sort of plant. No, some people just take each debate on a case by case basis. I know that is a hard topic for ideologues.
    You claim to be a Remainer yet you uncritically parrot every anti-EU line going, cheerlead for the Prime Minister and find an objection to anything advocated by other Remain supporters. It's pretty easy to spot a troll. Just be true to your views, which would command more respect if they were presented with a more realistic persona.
    Now you are just making up lies. I don't like Boris. I think he is a lazy charlatan and was reckless with the prorogation. I have said this on here multiple times. I have never cheered for him in any way. You are just imagining that I do because your mental view of the world is so ideological you have to make up facts to justify it.
    In your last day you have taken Boris Johnson's side against Angela Merkel, Boris Johnson's side arguing that he has put forward a deal and the EU has not responded appropriately, and argued in detail for his version of the backstop in Northern Ireland.
    I have long been explicitly in favour of compromise. Boris moved his position towards the EU and the EU did not move in. If the EU moved in and Boris did not, I would be targeting fire towards Boris.

    But there is a difference between praising an action and praising a person. You in your ideology cannot understand the difference.
    Boris moved away from the agreed UK/EU position. That is not moving towards the EU.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    Gabs2 said:

    You accused me of being biased for not using the word 'Europhobe'. This is the ridiculous position arch Remainers now make.

    Not biased. Undercover. Which is fine by me. All adds to the charms of the forum.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    edited October 2019
    https://twitter.com/davidschneider/status/1181895541900431361?s=20
    Quite funny - but could have been done slightly better IMO.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047


    You are so blind to your obvious giveaways. The idea that what Boris Johnson set out was remotely a basis for discussion requires a one-eyed Leave perspective.

    If Britain wants to move from the previously agreed deal it needs to offer something worked through that met the EU’s concerns. This did not come close to either. Of course the EU wasn’t going to engage with it.

    But as a Leaver your inability to see the EU’s perspective makes that impossible for you to see.

    I do wish Remainers would get their scripts straight. A good many (not personally accusing you, I don't remember what you said) when Boris' plan emerged were calling it a huge capitulation from Boris that showed the UK's weakness and gave the EU everything it had asked for. Now, because the Benn Act has given the EU the confidence to tell Boris to stuff his deal, the story has switched to his proposal being totally unacceptable.
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268

    Gabs2 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Gabs2 said:



    This is a constant theme on PB. Every time I argue for compromise from both sides, the only people attacking me are Remainers.

    Yes. Because you're the most obvious concern troll that pb has had in months, parroting Leave lines to take uncritically.
    That must be why I criticized prorogation on a number of occasions, have continuously advocated CU membership and thoroughly condemned the racist Leave.EU poster yesterday.
    ologues.
    You claim to be a Remainer yet you uncritically parrot every anti-EU line going, cheerlead for the Prime Minister and find an objection to anything advocated by other Remain supporters. It's pretty easy to spot a troll. Just be true to your views, which would command more respect if they were presented with a more realistic persona.
    Now you are just making up lies. I don't like Boris. I think he is a lazy charlatan and was reckless with the prorogation. I have said this on here multiple times. I have never cheered for him in any way. You are just imagining that I do because your mental view of the world is so ideological you have to make up facts to justify it.
    In your last day you have taken Boris Johnson's side against Angela Merkel, Boris Johnson's side arguing that he has put forward a deal and the EU has not responded appropriately, and argued in detail for his version of the backstop in Northern Ireland.
    I have long been explicitly in favour of compromise. Boris moved his position towards the EU and the EU did not move in. If the EU moved in and Boris did not, I would be targeting fire towards Boris.

    But there is a difference between praising an action and praising a person. You in your ideology cannot understand the difference.
    You are so blind to your obvious giveaways. The idea that what Boris Johnson set out was remotely a basis for discussion requires a one-eyed Leave perspective.

    If Britain wants to move from the previously agreed deal it needs to offer something worked through that met the EU’s concerns. This did not come close to either. Of course the EU wasn’t going to engage with it.

    But as a Leaver your inability to see the EU’s perspective makes that impossible for you to see.
    No, your obvious bias is that you cannot see anything but the EU's view of things being 100% the divine truth. I did not expect the EU to agree to the Boris proposal. I hoped they would move their position a little after the UK moved a little. They moved not an inch. If and when they do, I will praise them and then expect Boris to move a bit further.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited October 2019
    I asked a couple of friends if they understood what the Irish backstop was all about. Neither did and neither did I. I've never wanted to know nor did I know what the existing arrangements were.

    I wonder what percentage of the British population has ever had anything to do with Irish customs posts? I can understand the EU's concern about one of their member countries not being sold down the river-and good for them- but the concerns for Mrs May's 'backstop' by the ERG and others was surely bullshit .
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,618
    Byronic said:

    What's this whole "Brexit" lark then?

    Aw, don’t worry about it mate. It’ll never happen.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Gabs2 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Gabs2 said:



    You claim to be a Remainer yet you uncritically parrot every anti-EU line going, cheerlead for the Prime Minister and find an objection to anything advocated by other Remain supporters. It's pretty easy to spot a troll. Just be true to your views, which would command more respect if they were presented with a more realistic persona.

    Now you are just making up lies. I don't like Boris. I think he is a lazy charlatan and was reckless with the prorogation. I have said this on here multiple times. I have never cheered for him in any way. You are just imagining that I do because your mental view of the world is so ideological you have to make up facts to justify it.
    In your last day you have taken Boris Johnson's side against Angela Merkel, Boris Johnson's side arguing that he has put forward a deal and the EU has not responded appropriately, and argued in detail for his version of the backstop in Northern Ireland.
    I have long been explicitly in favour of compromise. Boris moved his position towards the EU and the EU did not move in. If the EU moved in and Boris did not, I would be targeting fire towards Boris.

    But there is a difference between praising an action and praising a person. You in your ideology cannot understand the difference.
    You are so blind to your obvious giveaways. The idea that what Boris Johnson set out was remotely a basis for discussion requires a one-eyed Leave perspective.

    If Britain wants to move from the previously agreed deal it needs to offer something worked through that met the EU’s concerns. This did not come close to either. Of course the EU wasn’t going to engage with it.

    But as a Leaver your inability to see the EU’s perspective makes that impossible for you to see.
    No, your obvious bias is that you cannot see anything but the EU's view of things being 100% the divine truth. I did not expect the EU to agree to the Boris proposal. I hoped they would move their position a little after the UK moved a little. They moved not an inch. If and when they do, I will praise them and then expect Boris to move a bit further.
    Yet again, they have no reason to move when they are handed a doodle of something that obviously does not meet the concerns addressed by the original solution. But as a committed Leaver, you can’t see that.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009


    You are so blind to your obvious giveaways. The idea that what Boris Johnson set out was remotely a basis for discussion requires a one-eyed Leave perspective.

    If Britain wants to move from the previously agreed deal it needs to offer something worked through that met the EU’s concerns. This did not come close to either. Of course the EU wasn’t going to engage with it.

    But as a Leaver your inability to see the EU’s perspective makes that impossible for you to see.

    I do wish Remainers would get their scripts straight. A good many (not personally accusing you, I don't remember what you said) when Boris' plan emerged were calling it a huge capitulation from Boris that showed the UK's weakness and gave the EU everything it had asked for.
    Bizarre.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340


    You are so blind to your obvious giveaways. The idea that what Boris Johnson set out was remotely a basis for discussion requires a one-eyed Leave perspective.

    If Britain wants to move from the previously agreed deal it needs to offer something worked through that met the EU’s concerns. This did not come close to either. Of course the EU wasn’t going to engage with it.

    But as a Leaver your inability to see the EU’s perspective makes that impossible for you to see.

    I do wish Remainers would get their scripts straight. A good many (not personally accusing you, I don't remember what you said) when Boris' plan emerged were calling it a huge capitulation from Boris that showed the UK's weakness and gave the EU everything it had asked for. Now, because the Benn Act has given the EU the confidence to tell Boris to stuff his deal, the story has switched to his proposal being totally unacceptable.
    It’s not a proposal.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688



    Yet again, they have no reason to move when they are handed a doodle of something that obviously does not meet the concerns addressed by the original solution. But as a committed Leaver, you can’t see that.

    It really isn't 'them and us', 'leavers vs remainers'.

    If you continue in this vein I'll come round to your house (26 Artillery Terrace isn't it?) and immediately leave! I'd suggest that those that remain might be less welcome.

    You, Mr Meeks can be right, indeed you often are, irrespective of however you voted in the past.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    If the LDs win the next general election there would be no Brexit, so no wonder Barnier is pleased to meet with them
  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    IanB2 said:

    I wonder why supporting your party by displaying a poster is a dying habit in the UK yet seems the norm in the US?

    People don't want to advertise their political affiliation when neighbourhoods ae more heterogeneous when it comes to politics. Or risk vandalism
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    edited October 2019
    HYUFD said:

    If the LDs win the next general election there would be no Brexit, so no wonder Barnier is pleased to meet with them
    It’s this type of incisive political commentary, presenting fresh, original, perspectives I might never have thought of, that keeps me coming back to this board.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,618
    DougSeal said:

    Roger said:

    Three years ago quite a lot of British people were talking about putting their French properties up for sale. Now my estate agency friend tells me the British are buying again and selling their English properties with a view to moving permanently

    Don’t tell Philip Thompson. He thinks we are all obsessed with moving to Australia
    😆a fate I’d wish on nobody. Awful pubs, shite architecture, overrated weather. Brits are coming home apparently.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-36299682
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    I just have a weird feeling that the talks between Varadkar and Johnson might produce something that leads to a deal .

    Call me nuts but I just think we might all be surprised.

    Whatever side of the debate you’re on the only chance to save the country from spilling into even more toxicity and polarization is a deal .

    We must return to a time when politics was more dull , I admit the drama over the last few years and the nail biting Commons votes has been like Christmas to political junkies of which there are many here myself included but I think enough is enough now .

    Remainers like myself might detest Brexit , but this battle now can’t be won , too much has happened .

    The EU simply can’t have the UK remaining , in a constant state of internal warfare with each election turning into a proxy on it .

    I want a good relationship with the EU and the UK to return to some degree of sanity .

    Only a deal can now get us to this point .

    A no deal or another referendum will never deliver any kind of closure .

    I don't agree. Having that wretched crook in office for the next five years is the worst of all worlds and if he strikes a deal -which will take years to unravel anyway -will almost certainly win him an election
    To be honest Roger I do wonder if succeeding with Brexit might be Boris's downfall. Much of his current support looks to be coming from those who believe he is the only one who will get us out. Once we are out I think much of that support will evaporate.

    I know Boris loves his Churchill comparisons and much as I hate to indulge him in that, I do wonder if the one way he might end up copying Churchill is by being unceremoniously dumped by the electorate once he has served his purpose.
    Given the only way we get a Brexit Deal passed and avoid another EU referendum is with a Tory majority at the next general election I would not worry about Brexit bring settled before that election
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,618
    kle4 said:

    I must say I have a bit of a pet peeve about people using twitter handles as part of a statement. I cannot say it is unreasonable given the statements are made on twitter, and in this case the handles are not egregious anyway (for two of them being just their name) but when I see something like "This is a totally outrageous comment from @realdonaldtrump, shame on him" something about it irritates me, like the statement loses something. Like, just refer to him by name, do you care if he actually gets notified of you mentioning him (or however twitter works)?

    I know it doesn't make much sense.
    With you on that.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    DougSeal said:

    Roger said:

    Three years ago quite a lot of British people were talking about putting their French properties up for sale. Now my estate agency friend tells me the British are buying again and selling their English properties with a view to moving permanently

    Don’t tell Philip Thompson. He thinks we are all obsessed with moving to Australia
    I think he's Les Patterson
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,759
    This thread has gone the way of

    Boris Johnson's Brexit strategy.

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    If the LDs win the next general election there would be no Brexit, so no wonder Barnier is pleased to meet with them
    It’s this type of incisive political commentary, presenting fresh, original, perspectives I might never have thought of, that keeps me coming back to this board.
    There is a process to nominate posts or posters (not sure which) as the yearly highlights. I'm sure new categories may be added too.

    Having. I'm sure, never featured in the existing categories, I may personally fear some of the potential new ones mind you.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    TOPPING said:



    What did I say?

    You suggested that one of our fellow PBers should feed their kitchen scraps to their chickens.

    Believe it or not - and I still find it hard to come to terms with as someone who keeps chickens - that is strictly illegal.

    It results from an EU directive transposed into British law. For all I know it was the British who pushed for it so this is not per se an attack on the EU. It is an attack on the idiocy of all governments that try and legislate every tiny part of our lives.

    It even applies if your chickens are pets and even to things like cabbage leaves from the outside of the cabbage or cauliflower.
    That was me. And do you know it's a stupid law.
This discussion has been closed.