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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » By the end of the week we just might have a better idea of whi

SystemSystem Posts: 11,005
edited October 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » By the end of the week we just might have a better idea of which of these Brexit options will be the winner

Ladbrokes

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  • Options
    I get the worm.
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Bright and breezy.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,336
    edited October 2019
    The party of Trump...
    Fake video of Trump shooting media and opponents 'shown at president's resort'
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/14/fake-video-of-trump-shooting-media-and-opponents-shown-at-presidents-resort
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    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/13/tories-distract-from-brexit-crime-focused-queens-speech

    Depressing read.

    Evidence based policy is needed more than ever in criminal justice, but 'Hangman' Patel shows her true ignorant reactionary colours.

    What an awful Home Secretary we have indeed.
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    solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    The only rule of post-referendum Brexit appears to be that every time you think you've reached the point where it will be decided...it subsequently isn't.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,905

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/13/tories-distract-from-brexit-crime-focused-queens-speech

    Depressing read.

    Evidence based policy is needed more than ever in criminal justice, but 'Hangman' Patel shows her true ignorant reactionary colours.

    What an awful Home Secretary we have indeed.

    Yes absolutely. It's a complete joke that her dishonesty and incompetence has landed her a significant promotion. All of Boris' other picks are sensible, albeit not politicians I like.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,916
    edited October 2019
    Good morning everybody. Maybe things will turn out better than many of us fear.

    Then again, maybe they won't. Only trouble is, as is well known, struggling in a swamp only drags one further down. The way out is to stay still and call for help!
    But who is likely to throw us a rope to grasp?
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    rkrkrk said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/13/tories-distract-from-brexit-crime-focused-queens-speech

    Depressing read.

    Evidence based policy is needed more than ever in criminal justice, but 'Hangman' Patel shows her true ignorant reactionary colours.

    What an awful Home Secretary we have indeed.

    Yes absolutely. It's a complete joke that her dishonesty and incompetence has landed her a significant promotion. All of Boris' other picks are sensible, albeit not politicians I like.
    She was chosen for the current moment. She is one of the Spartans and as such may have some influence over them in selling a deal.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,258
    FPT - I’ve only just caught up with Cyclefree’s superb thread. Truly excellent stuff and I agree entirely.

    Bravo.
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    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435
    rkrkrk said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/13/tories-distract-from-brexit-crime-focused-queens-speech

    Depressing read.

    Evidence based policy is needed more than ever in criminal justice, but 'Hangman' Patel shows her true ignorant reactionary colours.

    What an awful Home Secretary we have indeed.

    Yes absolutely. It's a complete joke that her dishonesty and incompetence has landed her a significant promotion. All of Boris' other picks are sensible, albeit not politicians I like.
    I'm not sure that Boris's apppointment of Gavin Williamson as the Education Secretary proves much better, whilst I applaud his Yorkshire education - I'm not sure his track record at Defence qualifies him for the job...
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    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,243
    Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?

    Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?
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    rkrkrk said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/13/tories-distract-from-brexit-crime-focused-queens-speech

    Depressing read.

    Evidence based policy is needed more than ever in criminal justice, but 'Hangman' Patel shows her true ignorant reactionary colours.

    What an awful Home Secretary we have indeed.

    Yes absolutely. It's a complete joke that her dishonesty and incompetence has landed her a significant promotion. All of Boris' other picks are sensible, albeit not politicians I like.
    I'm not sure that Boris's apppointment of Gavin Williamson as the Education Secretary proves much better, whilst I applaud his Yorkshire education - I'm not sure his track record at Defence qualifies him for the job...
    And Raab as foreign secretary? Mr Dover-Calais himself? Not sure that many of Boris's picks stand up. It's almost as threadbare as the Labour front bench.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,916

    FPT - I’ve only just caught up with Cyclefree’s superb thread. Truly excellent stuff and I agree entirely.

    Bravo.

    Seconded.
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    moonshine said:

    Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?

    Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?

    You mean like those who fought for years to overturn the 1975 European referendum
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,703
    moonshine said:

    Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?

    Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?

    Only if you're not a democrat, things have changed a lot since mid 2016 and people have changed their minds.
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    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,243

    moonshine said:

    Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?

    Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?

    You mean like those who fought for years to overturn the 1975 European referendum
    I’m sure a commentator as learned as you can recognise that the EC in 1975 was pretty different to the EU of 2019, as was the make up of the electorate. But good idea, I agree with you. Let’s say no new revote for 41 years.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1183625363236315136?s=21

    So an early election is now off the table?
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    TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584

    moonshine said:

    Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?

    Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?

    You mean like those who fought for years to overturn the 1975 European referendum
    40 years between votes seems about right - pencil in the rejoin one in for 2056.

    Or ten SNP generations.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919

    rkrkrk said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/13/tories-distract-from-brexit-crime-focused-queens-speech

    Depressing read.

    Evidence based policy is needed more than ever in criminal justice, but 'Hangman' Patel shows her true ignorant reactionary colours.

    What an awful Home Secretary we have indeed.

    Yes absolutely. It's a complete joke that her dishonesty and incompetence has landed her a significant promotion. All of Boris' other picks are sensible, albeit not politicians I like.
    I'm not sure that Boris's apppointment of Gavin Williamson as the Education Secretary proves much better, whilst I applaud his Yorkshire education - I'm not sure his track record at Defence qualifies him for the job...
    And Raab as foreign secretary? Mr Dover-Calais himself? Not sure that many of Boris's picks stand up. It's almost as threadbare as the Labour front bench.
    Sajid is fine. Raab is OK. Williamson is an idiot. Patel is a poor choice for Home Secretary.

    Ultimately, it's not really a government of all the talents, more of a government of people who supported Boris's bid for leadership of the Conservative Party.

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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    moonshine said:

    Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?

    Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?

    The basic problem Leavers have is that the more the public have seen of their plans, the less they like them. They have abjectly failed to create a consensus.

    Their lack of introspection about this failure is the most enduring mystery of Brexit for me.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    moonshine said:

    Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?

    Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?

    That would be confusing, because a bunch of people who cannot secure themselves a brexit after three years of trying, even when they have s referendum result in their favour, satisfy many definitions of "loser".
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Meeks, if it goes to a second referendum I'd be astounded if Remain lost (versus a Deal option).

    The question is: will MPs go for one?

    Ironic that Corbyn's the greatest ally hardline Leavers have.
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    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,243

    moonshine said:

    Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?

    Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?

    The basic problem Leavers have is that the more the public have seen of their plans, the less they like them. They have abjectly failed to create a consensus.

    Their lack of introspection about this failure is the most enduring mystery of Brexit for me.
    Sorry, I hadn’t realised it was my job to create a consensus about how to leave. I had rather hoped that the 650 MPs that I outsource running the country to would do that for me.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,905

    rkrkrk said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/13/tories-distract-from-brexit-crime-focused-queens-speech

    Depressing read.

    Evidence based policy is needed more than ever in criminal justice, but 'Hangman' Patel shows her true ignorant reactionary colours.

    What an awful Home Secretary we have indeed.

    Yes absolutely. It's a complete joke that her dishonesty and incompetence has landed her a significant promotion. All of Boris' other picks are sensible, albeit not politicians I like.
    I'm not sure that Boris's apppointment of Gavin Williamson as the Education Secretary proves much better, whilst I applaud his Yorkshire education - I'm not sure his track record at Defence qualifies him for the job...
    And Raab as foreign secretary? Mr Dover-Calais himself? Not sure that many of Boris's picks stand up. It's almost as threadbare as the Labour front bench.
    That's where you have to distinguish between a media gaffe and actually being terrible.
    Raab is a very smart man. A close leftie friend who worked for him at justice described him as brilliant, but not a particularly nice boss.

    Williamson to be fair is clearly a disaster and deserves to be in the same category as Patel (is he still demanding the police investigate himself I wonder!?).
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?

    Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?

    The basic problem Leavers have is that the more the public have seen of their plans, the less they like them. They have abjectly failed to create a consensus.

    Their lack of introspection about this failure is the most enduring mystery of Brexit for me.
    Sorry, I hadn’t realised it was my job to create a consensus about how to leave. I had rather hoped that the 650 MPs that I outsource running the country to would do that for me.
    Not about how to, about whether to. That is the job of the winners, to show the losers that their vision includes them. Instead, Leavers have spent the last three years in increasing paranoia, imposing steadily more stringent purity tests and accusing doubters of being quislings, traitors and, in your case, doubting their mental health.

    Oddly this has not led to a consensus for Brexit, despite its mandate: if anything, the whole idea is losing support.
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    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,243

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?

    Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?

    The basic problem Leavers have is that the more the public have seen of their plans, the less they like them. They have abjectly failed to create a consensus.

    Their lack of introspection about this failure is the most enduring mystery of Brexit for me.
    Sorry, I hadn’t realised it was my job to create a consensus about how to leave. I had rather hoped that the 650 MPs that I outsource running the country to would do that for me.
    Not about how to, about whether to. That is the job of the winners, to show the losers that their vision includes them. Instead, Leavers have spent the last three years in increasing paranoia, imposing steadily more stringent purity tests and accusing doubters of being quislings, traitors and, in your case, doubting their mental health.

    Oddly this has not led to a consensus for Brexit, despite its mandate: if anything, the whole idea is losing support.
    Ah yes, for some reason you were triggered when I expressed the same concerns raised by various mental health charities and several MPs themselves.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,258

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1183625363236315136?s=21

    So an early election is now off the table?

    Snap.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,839
    moonshine said:

    Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?

    Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?

    Surely the wording of a 'confirmatory referendum', by definition, has to be of the form "Should we do this, yes or no?", with no being left open for debate afterwards?

    However, most of those pushing for a second referendum appear to be of the opinion that it should be between the option that was rejected by the people three years ago, and the option that was rejected three times by Parliament earlier this year.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,258

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1183625363236315136?s=21

    So an early election is now off the table?

    Snap.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?

    Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?

    The basic problem Leavers have is that the more the public have seen of their plans, the less they like them. They have abjectly failed to create a consensus.

    Their lack of introspection about this failure is the most enduring mystery of Brexit for me.
    Sorry, I hadn’t realised it was my job to create a consensus about how to leave. I had rather hoped that the 650 MPs that I outsource running the country to would do that for me.
    Not about how to, about whether to. That is the job of the winners, to show the losers that their vision includes them. Instead, Leavers have spent the last three years in increasing paranoia, imposing steadily more stringent purity tests and accusing doubters of being quislings, traitors and, in your case, doubting their mental health.

    Oddly this has not led to a consensus for Brexit, despite its mandate: if anything, the whole idea is losing support.
    lol
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Sandpit said:

    moonshine said:

    Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?

    Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?

    Surely the wording of a 'confirmatory referendum', by definition, has to be of the form "Should we do this, yes or no?", with no being left open for debate afterwards?

    However, most of those pushing for a second referendum appear to be of the opinion that it should be between the option that was rejected by the people three years ago, and the option that was rejected three times by Parliament earlier this year.
    Both options need to be immediately capable of implementation.

    The reason Remain needs to be on any fresh referendum is because it is by far the most popular single option in every poll on the subject. Excluding it would be a democratic atrocity.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919
    Surely a confirmatory referendum's sole purpose is to confirm, so it only needs a single box on it signifying agreement.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,905

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Meeks, if it goes to a second referendum I'd be astounded if Remain lost (versus a Deal option).

    The question is: will MPs go for one?

    Ironic that Corbyn's the greatest ally hardline Leavers have.

    I'd say 60/40 chances of Remain winning.

    I think Corbyn may actually turn out to be the man who stopped Brexit. A more competent and professional Labour leader wouldn't have been 20 pts down in the polls, and therefore wouldn't have tempted May into an earlier election.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    Mr. rkrkrk, ah, but a more competent Labour leader would've also actually campaigned for us to Remain to start with, and I'd contend that would've made the difference.
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    eekeek Posts: 24,932
    edited October 2019

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1183625363236315136?s=21

    So an early election is now off the table?

    Snap.
    Key events need to be scheduled even if an election announcement may later scupper them.

    My first question is what will Boris do or announce on the 5th / 6th that will completely overshadow the budget.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    F1: Leclerc demoted:
    https://twitter.com/F1/status/1183316240326184960

    Pretty predictable. Unless you're working on Ferrari's strategy, it seems.
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    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,763
    More convinced than ever that Putin has dirt on Trump:

    https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1183608565162004480?s=20
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    TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    Sandpit said:

    moonshine said:

    Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?

    Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?

    Surely the wording of a 'confirmatory referendum', by definition, has to be of the form "Should we do this, yes or no?", with no being left open for debate afterwards?

    However, most of those pushing for a second referendum appear to be of the opinion that it should be between the option that was rejected by the people three years ago, and the option that was rejected three times by Parliament earlier this year.
    There is only one reason for another referendum- for remainers to try and muddy the waters, cause more chaos and hold the country back from getting on with things.

    The EU isn’t offering a referendum on the deal to its citizens- surely remainers want to align with the EU method of doing things.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    rcs1000 said:

    Surely a confirmatory referendum's sole purpose is to confirm, so it only needs a single box on it signifying agreement.

    Like a North Korean General Election?

    What a wonderfully adaptable and many-faceted thing democracy is.
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    The soft coup inside Labour is fascinating. Corbyn really does seem to have been sidelined. He is leader in name only. And is probably quite happy with that.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    Just as an aside, the BBC's ridiculous. Apparently marathon news and American gymnastics come ahead of F1...
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077
    I see it all continues to go very well.
    No shambles here.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,839
    eek said:

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1183625363236315136?s=21

    So an early election is now off the table?

    Snap.
    Key events need to be scheduled even if an election announcement may later scupper them.

    My first question is what will Boris do or announce on the 5th / 6th that will completely overshadow the budget.
    More likely is that the Budget contains a pile of popular tax cuts (Basic rate to 18% maybe?), so that the government can dare the opposition to vote it down. Right now they don't have anything close to a majority, and voting down the budget will be cause for resignation (if they even get past the Queen's Speech vote without resigning).
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1183625363236315136?s=21

    So an early election is now off the table?

    Boris imo still needs the election to be held in the window between Brexit being agreed, and Brexit proving a disaster. This brings us back to the price table at the top of this thread, with extending Article 50 being 2/7 favourite.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,336

    FPT - I’ve only just caught up with Cyclefree’s superb thread. Truly excellent stuff and I agree entirely.

    Bravo.

    The astonishing thing about the whole scandal is that even someone as politically interested as @NickPalmer was honest enough to admit not being aware of the details of the Henriques report.

    Something which ought to rock the police establishment has passed almost unnoticed.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,793
    Morning PB.

    Have Queens Speech day.

    LOCK THE DOORS! :D
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,839

    Just as an aside, the BBC's ridiculous. Apparently marathon news and American gymnastics come ahead of F1...

    To be fair, they were two of the greatest marathon running performances of all time over the weekend!

    While Mercedes' achievement of six consecutive double titles is also an amazing record, it doesn't quite have the same human interest as the two hour marathon finally being cracked after decades of trying, and a women's world (and British) record that has stood for sixteen years being obliterated only a day later.
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    Sandpit said:

    moonshine said:

    Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?

    Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?

    Surely the wording of a 'confirmatory referendum', by definition, has to be of the form "Should we do this, yes or no?", with no being left open for debate afterwards?

    However, most of those pushing for a second referendum appear to be of the opinion that it should be between the option that was rejected by the people three years ago, and the option that was rejected three times by Parliament earlier this year.
    Both options need to be immediately capable of implementation.

    The reason Remain needs to be on any fresh referendum is because it is by far the most popular single option in every poll on the subject. Excluding it would be a democratic atrocity.
    Remain was also popular on polls prior to the Referendum. The democratic atrocity would be asking the same question again before it has been implemented from the first time.

    If it is a confirmatory referendum then the result of a no vote should be leaving with No Deal.
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Just as an aside, the BBC's ridiculous. Apparently marathon news and American gymnastics come ahead of F1...

    Quite right. One involves people actually doing things with their bodies the other people just riding around in cars.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,905

    Mr. rkrkrk, ah, but a more competent Labour leader would've also actually campaigned for us to Remain to start with, and I'd contend that would've made the difference.

    Hard to know. My suspicion is that Corbyn's approach of admitting faults with the EU might have reduced the Labour leave vote. Certainly I think the fact he was leading Labour reduced the risk of a larger Lexit campaign.

    In any case, the Labour leave vote is estimated around 3-3.5m (based on 2017 Labour vote). Many of those of course didn't vote Labour in 2015.

    A hypothetical Labour leader would have needed to persuade 20-25% of those to change their mind and back Remain. Not impossible, but it seems a bit of a tall order, when you consider how engrained opinions on Brexit seem to be.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Just as an aside, the BBC's ridiculous. Apparently marathon news and American gymnastics come ahead of F1...

    Been a big weekend for marathons.

    Plus, which is more interesting? I could drive a F1 car as fast as Hamilton (OK, except round the corners). I doubt I could do half a Kosgei or Kipchoge speed, even on the straight bits.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,247
    edited October 2019
    Good morning

    Today's Sky poll conducted by YouGov gives 46% blaming the EU if talks fail v 31% who believe the EU has been fair, 23% did not know

    Support for no deal is 41% out weighing remaining at 33% while 14% hope negotiations will find another solution

    32% trust Boris with Corbyn on 16% with 76% who do not trust him. Only 36% of labour 2017 voters trust Corbyn on Brexit with former leavers particularly sceptical

    Only 14% trust mps and peers with 77% do not

    So summing up, walking away with no deal has much wider support, if this poll is correct, confounding so many who want to remain

    16% trusting Corbyn is horrendous for labour and he is very much their problem

    The only question I have is how do 14% trust mps and peers- it should be zero
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,703
    TGOHF2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    moonshine said:

    Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?

    Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?

    Surely the wording of a 'confirmatory referendum', by definition, has to be of the form "Should we do this, yes or no?", with no being left open for debate afterwards?

    However, most of those pushing for a second referendum appear to be of the opinion that it should be between the option that was rejected by the people three years ago, and the option that was rejected three times by Parliament earlier this year.
    There is only one reason for another referendum- for remainers to try and muddy the waters, cause more chaos and hold the country back from getting on with things.

    The EU isn’t offering a referendum on the deal to its citizens- surely remainers want to align with the EU method of doing things.
    What's becoming clearer all the time is that Brexiteers got lucky by nefarious means and achieved a small victory three and a quarter years ago. They will now do anything to hold onto that in the face of evidence that they have been rumbled and would not be able to repeat it.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,336
    CatMan said:

    More convinced than ever that Putin has dirt on Trump:

    https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1183608565162004480?s=20


    Indeed.
    Though don't forget Trump's dodgy Turkish connection go back before his election.
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/10/trump-colluding-turkey-erdogan-kurds-syria.html
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,839
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Just as an aside, the BBC's ridiculous. Apparently marathon news and American gymnastics come ahead of F1...

    Been a big weekend for marathons.

    Plus, which is more interesting? I could drive a F1 car as fast as Hamilton (OK, except round the corners). I doubt I could do half a Kosgei or Kipchoge speed, even on the straight bits.
    Kipchoge's average speed was 13.1mph, which is faster than most people can run 100m - even fit amateur athletes can't keep up that pace for more than a minute or so.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds21U7coQzI
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    Good morning

    Today's Sky poll conducted by YouGov gives 46% blaming the EU if talks fail v 31% who believe the EU has been fair, 23% did not know

    Support for no deal is 41% out weighing remaining at 33% while 14% hope negotiations will find another solution

    32% trust Boris with Corbyn on 16% with 76% who do not trust him. Only 36% of labour 2017 voters trust Corbyn on Brexit with former leavers particularly sceptical

    Only 14% trust mps and peers with 77% do not

    So summing up, walking away with no deal has much wider support, if this poll is correct, confounding so many who want to remain

    16% trusting Corbyn is horrendous for labour and he is very much their problem

    The only question I have is how do 14% trust mps and peers- it should be zero

    Only 14% hope negotiations find another solution? I'd be amongst that 14% though I'm ok with no deal if they can't.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,839

    Good morning

    Today's Sky poll conducted by YouGov gives 46% blaming the EU if talks fail v 31% who believe the EU has been fair, 23% did not know

    Support for no deal is 41% out weighing remaining at 33% while 14% hope negotiations will find another solution

    32% trust Boris with Corbyn on 16% with 76% who do not trust him. Only 36% of labour 2017 voters trust Corbyn on Brexit with former leavers particularly sceptical

    Only 14% trust mps and peers with 77% do not

    So summing up, walking away with no deal has much wider support, if this poll is correct, confounding so many who want to remain

    16% trusting Corbyn is horrendous for labour and he is very much their problem

    The only question I have is how do 14% trust mps and peers- it should be zero

    That's a very good poll for the government, surprisingly so.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    Sandpit said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Just as an aside, the BBC's ridiculous. Apparently marathon news and American gymnastics come ahead of F1...

    Been a big weekend for marathons.

    Plus, which is more interesting? I could drive a F1 car as fast as Hamilton (OK, except round the corners). I doubt I could do half a Kosgei or Kipchoge speed, even on the straight bits.
    Kipchoge's average speed was 13.1mph, which is faster than most people can run 100m - even fit amateur athletes can't keep up that pace for more than a minute or so.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds21U7coQzI
    Truly astounding. I remember reading somewhere that Usain Bolt may never have run a mile in his life, given he is geared to sprinting, but to consider someone can consistently run at regular person sprinting speed for 2 hours, well, its remarkable what the human body can manage.
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Just as an aside, the BBC's ridiculous. Apparently marathon news and American gymnastics come ahead of F1...

    Been a big weekend for marathons.

    Plus, which is more interesting? I could drive a F1 car as fast as Hamilton (OK, except round the corners). I doubt I could do half a Kosgei or Kipchoge speed, even on the straight bits.
    Kipchoge's average speed was 13.1mph, which is faster than most people can run 100m - even fit amateur athletes can't keep up that pace for more than a minute or so.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds21U7coQzI
    Truly astounding. I remember reading somewhere that Usain Bolt may never have run a mile in his life, given he is geared to sprinting, but to consider someone can consistently run at regular person sprinting speed for 2 hours, well, its remarkable what the human body can manage.
    I think he's faster than most regular people's sprinting speed.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,050

    Good morning

    Today's Sky poll conducted by YouGov gives 46% blaming the EU if talks fail v 31% who believe the EU has been fair, 23% did not know

    Support for no deal is 41% out weighing remaining at 33% while 14% hope negotiations will find another solution

    32% trust Boris with Corbyn on 16% with 76% who do not trust him. Only 36% of labour 2017 voters trust Corbyn on Brexit with former leavers particularly sceptical

    Only 14% trust mps and peers with 77% do not

    So summing up, walking away with no deal has much wider support, if this poll is correct, confounding so many who want to remain

    16% trusting Corbyn is horrendous for labour and he is very much their problem

    The only question I have is how do 14% trust mps and peers- it should be zero

    The government's PR operation has been as effective as one might have expected. The only effective argument against Brexit will be Brexit, unfortunately, and by then it will be too late. I've given up on this country, it doesn't merit me giving a shit what happens to it.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,247
    edited October 2019

    Good morning

    Today's Sky poll conducted by YouGov gives 46% blaming the EU if talks fail v 31% who believe the EU has been fair, 23% did not know

    Support for no deal is 41% out weighing remaining at 33% while 14% hope negotiations will find another solution

    32% trust Boris with Corbyn on 16% with 76% who do not trust him. Only 36% of labour 2017 voters trust Corbyn on Brexit with former leavers particularly sceptical

    Only 14% trust mps and peers with 77% do not

    So summing up, walking away with no deal has much wider support, if this poll is correct, confounding so many who want to remain

    16% trusting Corbyn is horrendous for labour and he is very much their problem

    The only question I have is how do 14% trust mps and peers- it should be zero

    The government's PR operation has been as effective as one might have expected. The only effective argument against Brexit will be Brexit, unfortunately, and by then it will be too late. I've given up on this country, it doesn't merit me giving a shit what happens to it.
    I think you do to be fair but this poll confounds a wide consensus that the public never voted for no deal and it seems the EU is losing the blame game
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    edited October 2019
    CatMan said:

    More convinced than ever that Putin has dirt on Trump:

    https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1183608565162004480?s=20

    Since when is Trump backing Turkey? He is backing neither side.

    As of yesterday however Assad is now backing the Kurds
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937

    Good morning

    Today's Sky poll conducted by YouGov gives 46% blaming the EU if talks fail v 31% who believe the EU has been fair, 23% did not know

    Support for no deal is 41% out weighing remaining at 33% while 14% hope negotiations will find another solution

    32% trust Boris with Corbyn on 16% with 76% who do not trust him. Only 36% of labour 2017 voters trust Corbyn on Brexit with former leavers particularly sceptical

    Only 14% trust mps and peers with 77% do not

    So summing up, walking away with no deal has much wider support, if this poll is correct, confounding so many who want to remain

    16% trusting Corbyn is horrendous for labour and he is very much their problem

    The only question I have is how do 14% trust mps and peers- it should be zero

    Indeed, if a Brexit Deal is not agreed this week voters now prefer No Deal to further extension
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    FPT @HYUFD

    Be careful about associating yourself with the slogan “Britain First”

    Brexit was certainly not a vote for that agenda (even though some of that ilk may have supported Brexit l)
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937

    Just as an aside, the BBC's ridiculous. Apparently marathon news and American gymnastics come ahead of F1...

    Well marathons are one of the only sports the BBC still cover live, unlike F1
  • Options
    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,379

    Good morning

    Today's Sky poll conducted by YouGov gives 46% blaming the EU if talks fail v 31% who believe the EU has been fair, 23% did not know

    Support for no deal is 41% out weighing remaining at 33% while 14% hope negotiations will find another solution

    32% trust Boris with Corbyn on 16% with 76% who do not trust him. Only 36% of labour 2017 voters trust Corbyn on Brexit with former leavers particularly sceptical

    Only 14% trust mps and peers with 77% do not

    So summing up, walking away with no deal has much wider support, if this poll is correct, confounding so many who want to remain

    16% trusting Corbyn is horrendous for labour and he is very much their problem

    The only question I have is how do 14% trust mps and peers- it should be zero

    The government's PR operation has been as effective as one might have expected. The only effective argument against Brexit will be Brexit, unfortunately, and by then it will be too late. I've given up on this country, it doesn't merit me giving a shit what happens to it.
    I'm not surprised Sky News' poll is like this. They are not really impartial with their news broadcasts and opinions. (A milder form of Fox News). Yougov may be impartial, but I'm sure the sample would have been skewed to Skynews viewers and therefore partial.

    On another issue, Channel 5 are supposed to be running a poll about which kind of deal/no deal people prefer.

    Are these news agencies scared of asking the obvious question? Shall we Remain or stay? Or are the paymasters scared of the result?
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,050
    Charles said:

    FPT @HYUFD

    Be careful about associating yourself with the slogan “Britain First”

    Brexit was certainly not a vote for that agenda (even though some of that ilk may have supported Brexit l)

    Not everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist, but every racist voted for Brexit.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Good morning

    Today's Sky poll conducted by YouGov gives 46% blaming the EU if talks fail v 31% who believe the EU has been fair, 23% did not know

    Support for no deal is 41% out weighing remaining at 33% while 14% hope negotiations will find another solution

    32% trust Boris with Corbyn on 16% with 76% who do not trust him. Only 36% of labour 2017 voters trust Corbyn on Brexit with former leavers particularly sceptical

    Only 14% trust mps and peers with 77% do not

    So summing up, walking away with no deal has much wider support, if this poll is correct, confounding so many who want to remain

    16% trusting Corbyn is horrendous for labour and he is very much their problem

    The only question I have is how do 14% trust mps and peers- it should be zero

    Indeed, if a Brexit Deal is not agreed this week voters now prefer No Deal to further extension
    On this poll that is a fair assumption
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,152
    Nigelb said:

    FPT - I’ve only just caught up with Cyclefree’s superb thread. Truly excellent stuff and I agree entirely.

    Bravo.

    The astonishing thing about the whole scandal is that even someone as politically interested as @NickPalmer was honest enough to admit not being aware of the details of the Henriques report.

    Something which ought to rock the police establishment has passed almost unnoticed.
    Agreed. Aided by the fact that today’s QS will contain a load of incoherent nonsense about law ‘n’ order. Take two points: ensuring that serious criminals are not released halfway through their sentence. This is already the case.

    Second, the budget on the entire justice system has been cut by 40%. That is why courts are shutting, people are waiting over a year for trials, judges are sitting idle etc. The recent spending statement only increased the current budget by 5%.

    Remember this when the Tory fan boys start praising all the QS promises made today.

    The Tories - in their current incarnation - are busy destroying everything that has been good about this country.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,839
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Just as an aside, the BBC's ridiculous. Apparently marathon news and American gymnastics come ahead of F1...

    Been a big weekend for marathons.

    Plus, which is more interesting? I could drive a F1 car as fast as Hamilton (OK, except round the corners). I doubt I could do half a Kosgei or Kipchoge speed, even on the straight bits.
    Kipchoge's average speed was 13.1mph, which is faster than most people can run 100m - even fit amateur athletes can't keep up that pace for more than a minute or so.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds21U7coQzI
    Truly astounding. I remember reading somewhere that Usain Bolt may never have run a mile in his life, given he is geared to sprinting, but to consider someone can consistently run at regular person sprinting speed for 2 hours, well, its remarkable what the human body can manage.
    I doubt he's ever run more than 400m in anger, as you say his body just isn't built for it.

    We forget that elite athletes are all completely superhuman specimens, they have lung capacity and lactate tolerance that 99.99% of us just don't have, plus the 'right' muscle mass, bone density, height and weight to be good at a particular event, things that are genetic and can't simply be trained out - not to belittle the massive advances in sports science and equipment technology in recent decades.

    There's good physical reasons that a lot of long distance runners at the Olympics are of Central African origin, a lot of 100m runners are of West Indian origin, and a lot of high jumpers are of North European origin. Those people have simply developed to be 'better' than the rest of us at certain things.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    edited October 2019

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/13/tories-distract-from-brexit-crime-focused-queens-speech

    Depressing read.

    Evidence based policy is needed more than ever in criminal justice, but 'Hangman' Patel shows her true ignorant reactionary colours.

    What an awful Home Secretary we have indeed.

    With the socially conservative working class Leave voters in Labour Leave seats the Tories need for a majority I expect Patel's views go down well.

    Indeed Yougov a fortnight ago had 72% of voters outside London wanting harsher sentences for criminals compared to only 60% of Londoners. A majority of voters also backed the death penalty for terrorists, serial killers and police and child killers

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/legal/articles-reports/2019/10/01/brits-want-harsher-punishments-criminals
  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,040
    edited October 2019

    Charles said:

    FPT @HYUFD

    Be careful about associating yourself with the slogan “Britain First”

    Brexit was certainly not a vote for that agenda (even though some of that ilk may have supported Brexit l)

    Not everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist, but every racist voted for Brexit.
    Indeed!

    Brexit is a f*cking disaster.

    Should be revoked asap to stop this country descending further onto the scrapheap.
  • Options

    Good morning

    Today's Sky poll conducted by YouGov gives 46% blaming the EU if talks fail v 31% who believe the EU has been fair, 23% did not know

    Support for no deal is 41% out weighing remaining at 33% while 14% hope negotiations will find another solution

    32% trust Boris with Corbyn on 16% with 76% who do not trust him. Only 36% of labour 2017 voters trust Corbyn on Brexit with former leavers particularly sceptical

    Only 14% trust mps and peers with 77% do not

    So summing up, walking away with no deal has much wider support, if this poll is correct, confounding so many who want to remain

    16% trusting Corbyn is horrendous for labour and he is very much their problem

    The only question I have is how do 14% trust mps and peers- it should be zero

    The government's PR operation has been as effective as one might have expected. The only effective argument against Brexit will be Brexit, unfortunately, and by then it will be too late. I've given up on this country, it doesn't merit me giving a shit what happens to it.
    I'm not surprised Sky News' poll is like this. They are not really impartial with their news broadcasts and opinions. (A milder form of Fox News). Yougov may be impartial, but I'm sure the sample would have been skewed to Skynews viewers and therefore partial.

    On another issue, Channel 5 are supposed to be running a poll about which kind of deal/no deal people prefer.

    Are these news agencies scared of asking the obvious question? Shall we Remain or stay? Or are the paymasters scared of the result?
    You cannot be watching the same Sky news as I do. They are very much a remain channel and to be fair I would not impune YouGov just because I did not like the results
  • Options
    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,379

    Charles said:

    FPT @HYUFD

    Be careful about associating yourself with the slogan “Britain First”

    Brexit was certainly not a vote for that agenda (even though some of that ilk may have supported Brexit l)

    Not everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist, but every racist voted for Brexit.
    Agreed, but I would also add that of the people who voted for brexit, enough of them were racist (approx 17.4m-16.0m)

  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT - I’ve only just caught up with Cyclefree’s superb thread. Truly excellent stuff and I agree entirely.

    Bravo.

    The astonishing thing about the whole scandal is that even someone as politically interested as @NickPalmer was honest enough to admit not being aware of the details of the Henriques report.

    Something which ought to rock the police establishment has passed almost unnoticed.
    Agreed. Aided by the fact that today’s QS will contain a load of incoherent nonsense about law ‘n’ order. Take two points: ensuring that serious criminals are not released halfway through their sentence. This is already the case.

    Second, the budget on the entire justice system has been cut by 40%. That is why courts are shutting, people are waiting over a year for trials, judges are sitting idle etc. The recent spending statement only increased the current budget by 5%.

    Remember this when the Tory fan boys start praising all the QS promises made today.

    The Tories - in their current incarnation - are busy destroying everything that has been good about this country.
    Not to mention the recent revelation (to Plaid Cymru MP Liz Saville-Roberts) that one fifth of murders are committed by prisoners on parole, thanks to Chris Grayling's "reforms".
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/05/almost-fifth-murders-england-wales-committed-ex-inmates-parole/
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    moonshine said:

    Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?

    Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?

    The basic problem Leavers have is that the more the public have seen of their plans, the less they like them. They have abjectly failed to create a consensus.

    Their lack of introspection about this failure is the most enduring mystery of Brexit for me.
    Contrast with the response of SNP, Green and other Yes campaigners who have never stopped trying to convert wavering No-ers to the Yes side since 2014. Change can only be achieved by converting previous opponents to your arguments. It is a basic, enduring truth of public life. Leavers totally fail to understand that. They think they will win by bullying, intimidation and bending the law. They won’t. The entire edifice is built on very shoddy foundations. It takes decades to build the solid base on which to advance. Leavers have been lazy, negligent and arrogant. There is no consensus to leave, and there never will be until the Leave side is lead by pleasant, trustworthy and persuasive people.
  • Options
    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?

    Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?

    The basic problem Leavers have is that the more the public have seen of their plans, the less they like them. They have abjectly failed to create a consensus.

    Their lack of introspection about this failure is the most enduring mystery of Brexit for me.
    Sorry, I hadn’t realised it was my job to create a consensus about how to leave. I had rather hoped that the 650 MPs that I outsource running the country to would do that for me.
    Hopefully you'll think twice before outsourcing a job to the Conservative Party again.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,336
    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT - I’ve only just caught up with Cyclefree’s superb thread. Truly excellent stuff and I agree entirely.

    Bravo.

    The astonishing thing about the whole scandal is that even someone as politically interested as @NickPalmer was honest enough to admit not being aware of the details of the Henriques report.

    Something which ought to rock the police establishment has passed almost unnoticed.
    Agreed. Aided by the fact that today’s QS will contain a load of incoherent nonsense about law ‘n’ order. Take two points: ensuring that serious criminals are not released halfway through their sentence. This is already the case.

    Second, the budget on the entire justice system has been cut by 40%. That is why courts are shutting, people are waiting over a year for trials, judges are sitting idle etc. The recent spending statement only increased the current budget by 5%.

    Remember this when the Tory fan boys start praising all the QS promises made today.

    The Tories - in their current incarnation - are busy destroying everything that has been good about this country.
    Government by lowest common denominator.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,703
    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:

    More convinced than ever that Putin has dirt on Trump:

    https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1183608565162004480?s=20

    Since when is Trump backing Turkey? He is backing neither side.

    As of yesterday however Assad is now backing the Kurds
    Do you deny that Trump's decision triggered Turkey's military attack?
  • Options
    FishingFishing Posts: 4,560



    Not about how to, about whether to. That is the job of the winners, to show the losers that their vision includes them. Instead, Leavers have spent the last three years in increasing paranoia, imposing steadily more stringent purity tests and accusing doubters of being quislings, traitors and, in your case, doubting their mental health.

    Oddly this has not led to a consensus for Brexit, despite its mandate: if anything, the whole idea is losing support.

    I can only imagine how inclusive Remainers would have been if they'd won, even by a couple of votes. We'll never know, of course, but I'd imagine they'd have gone back to the "looneys, fruitcakes and closet racists" attitude with amazing speed.
  • Options

    moonshine said:

    Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?

    Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?

    The basic problem Leavers have is that the more the public have seen of their plans, the less they like them. They have abjectly failed to create a consensus.

    Their lack of introspection about this failure is the most enduring mystery of Brexit for me.
    Contrast with the response of SNP, Green and other Yes campaigners who have never stopped trying to convert wavering No-ers to the Yes side since 2014. Change can only be achieved by converting previous opponents to your arguments. It is a basic, enduring truth of public life. Leavers totally fail to understand that. They think they will win by bullying, intimidation and bending the law. They won’t. The entire edifice is built on very shoddy foundations. It takes decades to build the solid base on which to advance. Leavers have been lazy, negligent and arrogant. There is no consensus to leave, and there never will be until the Leave side is lead by pleasant, trustworthy and persuasive people.
    I hear Nicola is ready to put a hard border from Carlisle to Berwick if necessary affecting 60% of Scots exports.

    Do you really think that even Scots will support such a barrier to trade and free movement within the UK. Is my Scottish wife going to have to provide her passport at the border when she visits family in the North of Scotland
  • Options

    moonshine said:

    Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?

    Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?

    The basic problem Leavers have is that the more the public have seen of their plans, the less they like them. They have abjectly failed to create a consensus.

    Their lack of introspection about this failure is the most enduring mystery of Brexit for me.
    Contrast with the response of SNP, Green and other Yes campaigners who have never stopped trying to convert wavering No-ers to the Yes side since 2014. Change can only be achieved by converting previous opponents to your arguments. It is a basic, enduring truth of public life. Leavers totally fail to understand that. They think they will win by bullying, intimidation and bending the law. They won’t. The entire edifice is built on very shoddy foundations. It takes decades to build the solid base on which to advance. Leavers have been lazy, negligent and arrogant. There is no consensus to leave, and there never will be until the Leave side is lead by pleasant, trustworthy and persuasive people.
    But there no pleasant, trustworthy or pleasant people in the SNP.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    moonshine said:

    Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?

    Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?

    The basic problem Leavers have is that the more the public have seen of their plans, the less they like them. They have abjectly failed to create a consensus.

    Their lack of introspection about this failure is the most enduring mystery of Brexit for me.
    Contrast with the response of SNP, Green and other Yes campaigners who have never stopped trying to convert wavering No-ers to the Yes side since 2014. Change can only be achieved by converting previous opponents to your arguments. It is a basic, enduring truth of public life. Leavers totally fail to understand that. They think they will win by bullying, intimidation and bending the law. They won’t. The entire edifice is built on very shoddy foundations. It takes decades to build the solid base on which to advance. Leavers have been lazy, negligent and arrogant. There is no consensus to leave, and there never will be until the Leave side is lead by pleasant, trustworthy and persuasive people.
    I agree with that. Of course, it helps Yessers that they lost, but in fairness Scottish unionists have also remained alive to their challenge.

    Leavers seem to think that they can ride roughshod over everyone without debate. You can see it on this thread, where the very idea that the public might get to change its mind is treated with horror.
  • Options
    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    HYUFD said:

    Good morning

    Today's Sky poll conducted by YouGov gives 46% blaming the EU if talks fail v 31% who believe the EU has been fair, 23% did not know

    Support for no deal is 41% out weighing remaining at 33% while 14% hope negotiations will find another solution

    32% trust Boris with Corbyn on 16% with 76% who do not trust him. Only 36% of labour 2017 voters trust Corbyn on Brexit with former leavers particularly sceptical

    Only 14% trust mps and peers with 77% do not

    So summing up, walking away with no deal has much wider support, if this poll is correct, confounding so many who want to remain

    16% trusting Corbyn is horrendous for labour and he is very much their problem

    The only question I have is how do 14% trust mps and peers- it should be zero

    Indeed, if a Brexit Deal is not agreed this week voters now prefer No Deal to further extension
    More spin !

    Voters do not prefer no deal , 33% want to ditch Brexit and Remain which means staying with our current deal and 14% want more negotiations. So 47% against 41% .

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    edited October 2019
    Charles said:

    FPT @HYUFD

    Be careful about associating yourself with the slogan “Britain First”

    Brexit was certainly not a vote for that agenda (even though some of that ilk may have supported Brexit l)

    Given the Leave vote was mainly a vote to regain sovereignty and reduce immigration based on the polling I would suggest it was more a vote for 'Britain First' than one to become a new low tax, low spend, low regulation Singapore and to do our own trade deals as global free trading Britain even if some Leave voters backed that
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,932
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    murali_s said:

    Charles said:

    FPT @HYUFD

    Be careful about associating yourself with the slogan “Britain First”

    Brexit was certainly not a vote for that agenda (even though some of that ilk may have supported Brexit l)

    Not everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist, but every racist voted for Brexit.
    Indeed!

    Brexit is a f*cking disaster.

    Should be revoked asap to stop this country descending further onto the scrapheap.
    Listen mate.. We are leaving.. there is no other option, revoke isn't going to happen. The plan has to be to leave with the least damage possible.
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Is there a poll where people are asked to choose between no deal or revoke ever been asked given that the primary objective of most people is to ‘get it over with’ even in the short term.
  • Options
    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Ishmael_Z said:

    I doubt I could do half a Kosgei or Kipchoge speed, even on the straight bits.

    The facebook page for parkrun, the people who organise weekly, free, timed 5k runs across the world, had this to say about Kipchoge's marathon.

    "To put Eliud Kipchoge's sub 2 hour marathon into perspective:
    Only FIVE of the 51,363,611 parkruns completed have been faster than Eliud's pace."
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    edited October 2019

    moonshine said:

    Has “People’s Vote” been officially dropped for “Confirmatory Referendum”?

    Can’t we just call a spade a spade and call it the Losers Revote?

    The basic problem Leavers have is that the more the public have seen of their plans, the less they like them. They have abjectly failed to create a consensus.

    Their lack of introspection about this failure is the most enduring mystery of Brexit for me.
    Contrast with the response of SNP, Green and other Yes campaigners who have never stopped trying to convert wavering No-ers to the Yes side since 2014. Change can only be achieved by converting previous opponents to your arguments. It is a basic, enduring truth of public life. Leavers totally fail to understand that. They think they will win by bullying, intimidation and bending the law. They won’t. The entire edifice is built on very shoddy foundations. It takes decades to build the solid base on which to advance. Leavers have been lazy, negligent and arrogant. There is no consensus to leave, and there never will be until the Leave side is lead by pleasant, trustworthy and persuasive people.
    Leave won the EU referendum, they do not need to convert voters, just have their victory respected by diehard Remainers.

    Yes lost the Scottish independence referendum and so do need to convert voters to reverse their defeat
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT - I’ve only just caught up with Cyclefree’s superb thread. Truly excellent stuff and I agree entirely.

    Bravo.

    The astonishing thing about the whole scandal is that even someone as politically interested as @NickPalmer was honest enough to admit not being aware of the details of the Henriques report.

    Something which ought to rock the police establishment has passed almost unnoticed.
    Agreed. Aided by the fact that today’s QS will contain a load of incoherent nonsense about law ‘n’ order. Take two points: ensuring that serious criminals are not released halfway through their sentence. This is already the case.

    Second, the budget on the entire justice system has been cut by 40%. That is why courts are shutting, people are waiting over a year for trials, judges are sitting idle etc. The recent spending statement only increased the current budget by 5%.

    Remember this when the Tory fan boys start praising all the QS promises made today.

    The Tories - in their current incarnation - are busy destroying everything that has been good about this country.
    slight touch of hyperbole Ms Cyclefree
  • Options
    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Just as an aside, the BBC's ridiculous. Apparently marathon news and American gymnastics come ahead of F1...

    Been a big weekend for marathons.

    Plus, which is more interesting? I could drive a F1 car as fast as Hamilton (OK, except round the corners). I doubt I could do half a Kosgei or Kipchoge speed, even on the straight bits.
    Kipchoge's average speed was 13.1mph, which is faster than most people can run 100m - even fit amateur athletes can't keep up that pace for more than a minute or so.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds21U7coQzI
    Truly astounding. I remember reading somewhere that Usain Bolt may never have run a mile in his life, given he is geared to sprinting, but to consider someone can consistently run at regular person sprinting speed for 2 hours, well, its remarkable what the human body can manage.
    I think he's faster than most regular people's sprinting speed.
    I think someone said he did 17 seconds per 100m, which is about what I managed at Secondary School.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,247
    edited October 2019
    nico67 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Good morning

    Today's Sky poll conducted by YouGov gives 46% blaming the EU if talks fail v 31% who believe the EU has been fair, 23% did not know

    Support for no deal is 41% out weighing remaining at 33% while 14% hope negotiations will find another solution

    32% trust Boris with Corbyn on 16% with 76% who do not trust him. Only 36% of labour 2017 voters trust Corbyn on Brexit with former leavers particularly sceptical

    Only 14% trust mps and peers with 77% do not

    So summing up, walking away with no deal has much wider support, if this poll is correct, confounding so many who want to remain

    16% trusting Corbyn is horrendous for labour and he is very much their problem

    The only question I have is how do 14% trust mps and peers- it should be zero

    Indeed, if a Brexit Deal is not agreed this week voters now prefer No Deal to further extension
    More spin !

    Voters do not prefer no deal , 33% want to ditch Brexit and Remain which means staying with our current deal and 14% want more negotiations. So 47% against 41% .

    41% wanting no deal is much higher than anyone thought and you cannot add 14% to the remain column as they want more negotiation no doubt for a softer brexit

    In any referendum the question would have to be deal - no deal - remain as confirmed by Dominic Grieve recently
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Fishing said:



    Not about how to, about whether to. That is the job of the winners, to show the losers that their vision includes them. Instead, Leavers have spent the last three years in increasing paranoia, imposing steadily more stringent purity tests and accusing doubters of being quislings, traitors and, in your case, doubting their mental health.

    Oddly this has not led to a consensus for Brexit, despite its mandate: if anything, the whole idea is losing support.

    I can only imagine how inclusive Remainers would have been if they'd won, even by a couple of votes. We'll never know, of course, but I'd imagine they'd have gone back to the "looneys, fruitcakes and closet racists" attitude with amazing speed.
    For starters, David Cameron’s renegotiation would in all probability have been implemented. So unlike Leave, who have ripped up their own prospectus and still purport to have a mandate, the Remain prospectus would have been delivered.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,336
    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:

    More convinced than ever that Putin has dirt on Trump:

    https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1183608565162004480?s=20

    Since when is Trump backing Turkey? He is backing neither side.

    As of yesterday however Assad is now backing the Kurds
    Since he agreed to step aside and allow them invade the safe zone in Syrian territory, established over five years largely as a result of determined US policy.

    It was about the only good thing that has happened in the war torn country.
    The betrayal without warning of an ally who lead the fight against IS at the cost of many thousands of casualties (I believe US casualties during the time are in single figures) will damage worldwide trust in the US a very long time.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    edited October 2019
    nico67 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Good morning

    Today's Sky poll conducted by YouGov gives 46% blaming the EU if talks fail v 31% who believe the EU has been fair, 23% did not know

    Support for no deal is 41% out weighing remaining at 33% while 14% hope negotiations will find another solution

    32% trust Boris with Corbyn on 16% with 76% who do not trust him. Only 36% of labour 2017 voters trust Corbyn on Brexit with former leavers particularly sceptical

    Only 14% trust mps and peers with 77% do not

    So summing up, walking away with no deal has much wider support, if this poll is correct, confounding so many who want to remain

    16% trusting Corbyn is horrendous for labour and he is very much their problem

    The only question I have is how do 14% trust mps and peers- it should be zero

    Indeed, if a Brexit Deal is not agreed this week voters now prefer No Deal to further extension
    More spin !

    Voters do not prefer no deal , 33% want to ditch Brexit and Remain which means staying with our current deal and 14% want more negotiations. So 47% against 41% .

    55% prefer No Deal or a Brexit Deal after more negotiations to just a third for Remain
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,839

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Just as an aside, the BBC's ridiculous. Apparently marathon news and American gymnastics come ahead of F1...

    Been a big weekend for marathons.

    Plus, which is more interesting? I could drive a F1 car as fast as Hamilton (OK, except round the corners). I doubt I could do half a Kosgei or Kipchoge speed, even on the straight bits.
    Kipchoge's average speed was 13.1mph, which is faster than most people can run 100m - even fit amateur athletes can't keep up that pace for more than a minute or so.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds21U7coQzI
    Truly astounding. I remember reading somewhere that Usain Bolt may never have run a mile in his life, given he is geared to sprinting, but to consider someone can consistently run at regular person sprinting speed for 2 hours, well, its remarkable what the human body can manage.
    I think he's faster than most regular people's sprinting speed.
    I think someone said he did 17 seconds per 100m, which is about what I managed at Secondary School.
    Yep, 17.01 for 100m, 422 times in a row! :open_mouth:
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