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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » “Honouring” the referendum should apply to not just to the outcome but what the official Leave campaign said
They were also promising this. We’ve got the monstrosity of Settled Status instead. pic.twitter.com/41dNhKvENw
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/10/15/neil-woodfords-flagship-fund-wound-upby-administrator/
The Leave campaign had two essential components: hosing the NHS with money and being unpleasant to foreigners. Leavers are entitled to insist on those two aspects from any Brexit deal. Nothing else has a mandate.
It clearly wasn't going to be the incumbent Prime Minister, David Cameron.
Ever since then, there's been no accountability for outright lying and it's just grown and grown to where it hardly matters what the vote was actually won on.
A crucial moment of weakness.
Perhaps you like to vote without thinking for yourself, but I try not to.
https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt/status/1183936219631280128?s=19
We are getting to circular firing squad here.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-7574535/The-Queen-tells-schoolboy-noisy-refuses-cup-tea-shes-busy.html
I wonder if she said the same thing to Boris?
I disagreed and do disagree really rather strongly with many of the other reasons that people had for leaving the EU. Obviously I disagree with many of the Remain reasons as well.
It's why leaving is proving to be such a problem as no-one can agree on what our relationships need to look like.
So there are plenty like Williamglen who wanted far closer ties to the EU than were being offered by the official Remain campaign. There were plenty like me who wanted a closer final relationship than was being touted by Vote Leave.
I have far more faith in people's ability to be discriminatory about these detailed arguments than you seem to hold.
Whatever ANYONE now does, people will be angry. And with respect to the Cummings/HYUFD master plan, if we miraculously get a viable deal by midnight, and get it EU approved, and get it HoC approved, and get it implemented by Halloween (most of which are impossible if not insane), then people will be OUTRAGED. It isn't PROPER BREXIT. We're STILL IN THE EU" etc etc. And they will not vote Tory they will vote Brexit.
If the Tories deliver the deal they are electorally screwed. If they deliver no deal they know the economic damage means they are electorally screwed. Their only saving grace being that Labour are also screwed.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/oct/15/daily-telegraph-drops-bottled-water-promo-wh-smith-pre-tax-profits-fall
By my reckoning this would have to be tabled by the end of next week (assuming GE will not go past 10 December).
But I'm sceptical the average Brexit voter would be satisfied.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/15/world/middleeast/kurds-syria-turkey.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage
Putin's man delivers.
Immigration was by far the biggest reason. Some say "sovereignty" but when you question further this often comes down to controlling our border.
I regret that EU leaders didn`t listen to Cameron when he tried to improve our terms of membership. If he`d have got an emergency brake on free movement, based on our population density, we probably wouldn`t be in the mess we are now.
There is no good outcome.
The 2016 Referendum was a shitty stick with shit at both ends.
The ERG, the DUP or the Lib Dems who were elected as Labour MPs on a pledge to respect the result?
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/10/11/us/politics/october-democratic-debate.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage
Are you allowing for the 14 days for a failed attempt to find an alternative government?
That`s a very good point.
No - just that it probably made no difference to this one.
Voters wrongly blamed immigration for their economic decline, and then wrongly blamed the EU for that immigration, and so voted Leave.
Protecting the boundaries of countries, of which we are one, where at any time perhaps many millions would happily settle from overseas is always going to be hard. Such protection can always be dressed up as unpleasantness to Johnny Foreigner but I don't think that would be correct. The sheer numbers who have settled here indicates otherwise.
How do we make lying something that costs a politician their job?
On the basis of fact and evidence I chose to remain, despite the poor campaign they ran.
On the basis of fact and evidence I chose to remain, despite the poor campaign they ran"
Me too
No renegotiation required.
Cameron's fault, not the EU.
You were on this forum, one of "les indecided's" - people who were always going to vote Remain,but pretended to be open minded about what to do, at the time. You surely can remember Richard Tyndall, DavidL and myself were saying about how we were going to vote?
The public remember exactly two things about the Leave campaign: the bus and the anti-immigration stuff. That's all that Leavers can demand is honoured. The rest is open for discussion and is mandateless.
https://twitter.com/aliceolilly/status/1184095008292589568
As Brexit isn't Brexit according to Brexiteers I think calling them cretins is only fair.
I didn't vote for a campaign. Indeed, no-one did. The question on the ballot paper was about remaining in or leaving the EU.
A week or so before the vote, someone shouting "Britain First" murdered Jo Cox, and Leave still won. Seems to me the resolve of Leave voters was stiffer than could be induced by a campaign
A massive @rsehole, certainly, but for other reasons. And he has definitely fallen out with Trump.
Sorry - I`ll be clearer - the campaign did affect the result, but I don`t think it`s lies did. Where the leave campaign was so succesful was getting its vote out - particular in poor areas, where many voted for the first time in their lives.
I`ve always thought (but cannot prove) that the majority was and is Remain - but turnout was the key. It follows, if I`m right, that we are being taken out of the EU against the country`s wishes.
However, there is no desire, either in Parliament or on these boards, to grapple with these difficult questions. Instead those seeking to overturn the vote prefer to accuse the entire leave voting population as either thick, or racist, or corrupt, which merely widens the divisions, and, I'm afraid, shows those making such accusations to be more narrow minded, bigoted and prejudiced than those they accuse. Which is why these boards have been so depressing to read for so long and why I rarely contribute.
I was a remain voter, and remain enormously receptive to the idea of remaining in a way that does not further fracture our society - that I've heard nothing remotely convincing in over 3 years is genuinely depressing.
For example the ORB poll published a few days after the referendum was announced gave 52% to Leave and the breakdown by region and demographics looks pretty close to the national result.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160307004637/http://www.opinion.co.uk/perch/resources/datatablesfeb2016.pdf
Indeed looking at the polls, the overall picture showed quite a spread with phone polls better for Remain, but no clear trend over the course of the campaign.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum
There is a case to be made that campaigning is by and large futile, though perhaps one not to the taste of political nerds on PB. Not for the first time Mr Cummings may be shown to be not as clever as he thinks he is.