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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Starmer starting to pull away in the Corbyn successor betting

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited December 2019 in General

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  • Sanity returning to Labour? We can only hope.
  • Oh... and 1st, but in an inverted way...
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    edited December 2019
    As regards "the next leader to be a woman", what is the point if she is unelectable? You may as well hang on to Corbyn. Labour have tried the symbolism approach and it has been a failure. They need an electable Leader.
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614

    As regards "the next leader to be a woman", what is the point if she is unelectable? You may as well hang on to Corbyn. Labour have tried the symbolism approach and it has been a failure. They need an electable Leader.

    Tony Blair?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,713
    edited December 2019
    Wishful thinking, the Labour membership are ideological zealots now and if Corbyn goes after a Labour defeat and Pidcock or Long-Bailey get to the final 2 they will win blaming moderates like Starmer for turning off Labour voters in the North and urging an even further shift left to the core.

    If Chuka wins Cities of London and Westminster he would then get his chance to become LD leader and appeal to centrist voters Labour have abandoned
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,851
    edited December 2019
    Pidcock and cooper wont be in parliament so its Starmer, Long Bailey or Rayner imo
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited December 2019
    Why would hard left membership vote for Starmer?
    Especially if Labour keep it fairly close in 10 days time, it will be one more heave strategy with a leader without all the baggage of Jezza.
  • Blurst! Like a Long-Bailey.

    I think electability will trump gender. It's happening in America, Warren fading behind two blokes. So without one woman to get behind Keir might assume the moderates and the electability votes.

    A question, for the Lib Dems, can Chuka be party leader if he loses his seat? Will they want him if so?
  • As regards "the next leader to be a woman", what is the point if she is unelectable? You may as well hang on to Corbyn. Labour have tried the symbolism approach and it has been a failure. They need an electable Leader.

    We've got to hope that there are still enough sane people amongst the membership to realise this. I'm not optimistic.

    Also, does Starmer end up being Neil Kinnock? Rebuilds the party and detoxifies the brand which takes ages, then loses the election? Who is John Smith?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,851
    HYUFD said:

    Wishful thinking, the Labour membership are ideological zealots now and if Corbyn goes after a Labour defeat and Pidcock or Long-Bailey get to the final 2 they will win blaming moderates like Starmer for turning off Labour voters in the North and urging an even further shift left to the core.

    If Chuka wins Cities of London and Westminster he would then get his chance to become LD leader and appeal to centrist voters Labour have abandoned

    Chukas chances are fading in Cities
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,265

    As regards "the next leader to be a woman", what is the point if she is unelectable? You may as well hang on to Corbyn. Labour have tried the symbolism approach and it has been a failure. They need an electable Leader.

    In practice I think members will be driven more by other factors then gender, though they'd prefer a woman if other factors are equal. People don't join the party primarily to achieve gender equality, though nearly everyone thinks it desirable.

    On the London poll on the last thread, isn't the position that Labour was actually doing worse (relatively) in London than elsewhere in terms of falling share (mainly because of the LD surge) and they've now pulled into line? I suspect that differential turnout mobilisation will be more significant in London than elsewhere, since it's easier to have 500 members working effectively in a London seat than in somewhere like High Peak.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Unpopular opinion but I think Starmer is too wooden to be a leader. I think he'd be a better high ranking member of the front bench team.

    I'd like to see an Yvette Cooper leadership with the likes of Hilary Benn and Ed Miliband among the top roles.

    I think Labour have a potential front bench currently sat on the backbenches which would be 10% ahead in the polls right now.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653
    On topic: maybe the current experience of Swinson will lessen Labour`s appetite for a woman leader?
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614

    Pidcock and cooper wont be in parliament so its Starmer, Long Bailey or Rayner imo

    Please let it be Angie Rayner. The comedy gold she would bring....Keith Lemon on speed....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Starmer has been invisible; anonymous this campaign :D
    He's one of my lower results in the betting, I wouldn't rule out McDonnell personally.
  • When Keir Starmer inevitably sits on a similar Labour manifesto to the current one and stuff is dug up about his past, no doubt we'll be having the same conversations as we are having now.
    Starmer is not a Blairite, he will not be returning Labour to the centre.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    Starmer is the future as Pidcock, Rayner and Long Bailey will scare off all the moderate potential LAB voters everywhere!

    Even though Starmer is entirely built on a golden spoon background and is a much use as a pink lemon.

    Could be LAB maj 150 in 2024!
  • And for what it's worth, I would support Starmer as leader
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    Fenster said:

    Unpopular opinion but I think Starmer is too wooden to be a leader. I think he'd be a better high ranking member of the front bench team.

    I'd like to see an Yvette Cooper leadership with the likes of Hilary Benn and Ed Miliband among the top roles.

    I think Labour have a potential front bench currently sat on the backbenches which would be 10% ahead in the polls right now.

    That front bench you mention sounds a lot like the one they had in 2015. Hhhmmm.
  • I think the first question is about which MPs would constitute the PLP and who might get over the line on nominations.
    Next, I think the length of the contest matters, and within that the constituency that will be voting. For example, would there be an acting leader for a while and how long will you have had to be a member/supporter to get a vote?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961

    As regards "the next leader to be a woman", what is the point if she is unelectable? You may as well hang on to Corbyn. Labour have tried the symbolism approach and it has been a failure. They need an electable Leader.

    We've got to hope that there are still enough sane people amongst the membership to realise this. I'm not optimistic.
    Also, does Starmer end up being Neil Kinnock? Rebuilds the party and detoxifies the brand which takes ages, then loses the election? Who is John Smith?
    I don't see Starmer laying a glove on Boris.....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,713
    edited December 2019

    HYUFD said:

    Wishful thinking, the Labour membership are ideological zealots now and if Corbyn goes after a Labour defeat and Pidcock or Long-Bailey get to the final 2 they will win blaming moderates like Starmer for turning off Labour voters in the North and urging an even further shift left to the core.

    If Chuka wins Cities of London and Westminster he would then get his chance to become LD leader and appeal to centrist voters Labour have abandoned

    Chukas chances are fading in Cities
    He is squeezing the Labour vote and Tory Remainers and Heseltine has backed him, Chuka is more likely to win a Tory seat than virtually every Labour candidate
  • From my limited knowledge of Labour, members I know in my area think the Labour left wing manifesto is great but just believe another more voter friendly left wing leader is the answer. They revile any links to Tony Blair. I would not put any money on Keir Starmer and still think Rebecca Long-Bailey the most likely.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    CAUTION!

    CORBYN could be PM in 10 days time!

    Any vote for LAB LD SNP GRN and PC is a vote for a hard left CORBYNISTA government. Don't do it!
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850
    edited December 2019

    maaarsh said:

    BluerBlue said:

    Boris Johnson isn't a One Nation Tory, he's not anything. He will do and say anything to win and then afterwards he'll do whatever he needs to do to not do anything he has promised. He's the dictionary definition of a charlatan.
    If he does win - and I don't think he will win a majority - I am deeply concerned about this country, I haven't really felt that with a PM in my short lifetime. But I feel that with him.

    Welcome to how the biggest voting bloc in this country feels about Corbyn and his extremism.
    Johnson is extreme, he's a mini Trump. We're fucked.
    Corbyn won't have enough seats to do anything - but Johnson will. That terrifies me.
    London's only just recovering from his reign of terror!

    What utter shite. He's a middle of the road liberal tory who wants to be PM whilst life carries on broadly unchanged around him.
    He was middle of the road Tory for London and left a mess when he left. Now he's a hard-right PM because that's what he needs to do to win.
    He is whatever he needs to be to win - and then he ruins things when he gets in and after he leaves. I don't want a mini-Trump in power, I will do whatever I can to stop him.
    Left a mess? Hardly. London just carried on for eight years being that great metropolitan, multi-cultural thing it is today. Given the dire warnings before he was elected - you know, the ones where all the luvvies were just going to HAVE to leave the place if he did - I'd say we got away lightly, what with the city not sinking into the Thames and washing out to sea....
    The increase in homeless people and those sleeping rough under a Government he supported and worked on behalf of, is enough of a reason for me to utterly despise him and his party. It's an absolute disgrace.
    You might look closer to home as to who let a number of those rough sleepers into the country.... Life has not been great for all of the 3 million Tony Blair let in to "rub the right's nose into diversity"....
    Indeed, it's not PC to say but the majority of homeless people I see - and, living above shops on a high street, I've had them literally sleeping by my front door - are from abroad, drawn here by the prospect of streets paved with gold, only to find they are not. Get rid of free movement and clamp down at the ports and the level of rough sleepers may eventually start to fall.
  • Ave_it said:

    CAUTION!

    CORBYN could be PM in 10 days time!

    Any vote for LAB LD SNP GRN and PC is a vote for a hard left CORBYNISTA government. Don't do it!


  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Jason said:

    Fenster said:

    Unpopular opinion but I think Starmer is too wooden to be a leader. I think he'd be a better high ranking member of the front bench team.

    I'd like to see an Yvette Cooper leadership with the likes of Hilary Benn and Ed Miliband among the top roles.

    I think Labour have a potential front bench currently sat on the backbenches which would be 10% ahead in the polls right now.

    That front bench you mention sounds a lot like the one they had in 2015. Hhhmmm.
    Yeah, but 2015 was a tough election for Labour. The Lib Dems fell to pieces and it was the first election after a long term in power with a leader who - despite being nice and well respected - came across as too nerdy to appeal to enough voters.

    Also, the SNP surge was a spectacular event which probs would've scuppered any Labour leader at that point.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,713
    Ave_it said:

    Starmer is the future as Pidcock, Rayner and Long Bailey will scare off all the moderate potential LAB voters everywhere!

    Even though Starmer is entirely built on a golden spoon background and is a much use as a pink lemon.

    Could be LAB maj 150 in 2024!

    Starmer is a British Bill Shorten, better than Corbyn but a charisma bypass and no match for Boris. He would win a few more Tory Remainers and LDs to Labour but Leavers would stay Tory
  • DeClareDeClare Posts: 483
    He comes across to me as a rather dull lawyer with zero charisma and the German sounding name won't help him either.
    Labour is now the only major party that has never had a woman leader and the pressure to find one will be intense.
    None of their leading female MPs impress me much though.
  • HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    Starmer is the future as Pidcock, Rayner and Long Bailey will scare off all the moderate potential LAB voters everywhere!

    Even though Starmer is entirely built on a golden spoon background and is a much use as a pink lemon.

    Could be LAB maj 150 in 2024!

    Starmer is a British Bill Shorten, better than Corbyn but a charisma bypass and no match for Boris. He would win a few more Tory Remainers and LDs to Labour but Leavers would stay Tory

    That rather depends on what the Tories do with the next five years, I'd have thought.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961
    You know that "very junior person who has gone rogue" and who they had to suspend over the LibDems forgery scandal?
    Turns out it was Rosy Cobb, the LibDem's head of press. Ooooooops.
    https://order-order.com/2019/12/03/libdem-head-press-rosy-cobb-suspended-party/
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    Starmer is the future as Pidcock, Rayner and Long Bailey will scare off all the moderate potential LAB voters everywhere!

    Even though Starmer is entirely built on a golden spoon background and is a much use as a pink lemon.

    Could be LAB maj 150 in 2024!

    Starmer is a British Bill Shorten, better than Corbyn but a charisma bypass and no match for Boris. He would win a few more Tory Remainers and LDs to Labour but Leavers would stay Tory
    Starmer would destroy Boris week in week out at PM Question time.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    I got a LD 4 sides A4 leaflet today - as they continue their push in the top marginal Ruislip Northwood and Pinner.

    I had to look quite hard before I spotted a picture of SuperJo :lol:
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited December 2019
    How do we know Jezza's going....he might go "Full Absolute Bercow"....like some unfunny comedian.
  • argyllrsargyllrs Posts: 155

    As regards "the next leader to be a woman", what is the point if she is unelectable? You may as well hang on to Corbyn. Labour have tried the symbolism approach and it has been a failure. They need an electable Leader.

    We've got to hope that there are still enough sane people amongst the membership to realise this. I'm not optimistic.
    Also, does Starmer end up being Neil Kinnock? Rebuilds the party and detoxifies the brand which takes ages, then loses the election? Who is John Smith?
    I don't see Starmer laying a glove on Boris.....
    Haven't a clue who would win but McDonnell is streets ahead for the rest as a performer. He would also be the momentum preference.
    Outside of that cannot see Starmer, Cooper, or Piddock. Maybe Raynor one day, but not yet. Need to look more broadly and give a few newer MP's a chance to make the case for themselves see if someone rises to the top.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited December 2019

    maaarsh said:

    BluerBlue said:

    Boris Johnson isn't a One Nation Tory, he's not
    If he does win - and I don't think he will win a majority - I am deeply concerned about this country, I haven't really felt that with a PM in my short lifetime. But I feel that with him.

    Welcome to how the biggest voting bloc in this country feels about Corbyn and his extremism.
    Johnson is extreme, he's a mini Trump. We're fucked.
    Corbyn won't have enough seats to do anything - but Johnson will. That terrifies me.
    London's only just recovering from his reign of terror!

    What utter shite. He's a middle of the road liberal tory who wants to be PM whilst life carries on broadly unchanged around him.
    He was middle of the road Tory for London and left a mess when he left. Now he's a hard-right PM because that's what he needs to do to win.
    He is whatever he needs to be to win - and then he ruins things when he gets in and after he leaves. I don't want a mini-Trump in power, I will do whatever I can to stop him.
    Left a mess? Hardly. London just carried on for eight years being that great metropolitan, multi-cultural thing it is today. Given the dire warnings before he was elected - you know, the ones where all the luvvies were just going to HAVE to leave the place if he did - I'd say we got away lightly, what with the city not sinking into the Thames and washing out to sea....
    The increase in homeless people and those sleeping rough under a Government he supported and worked on behalf of, is enough of a reason for me to utterly despise him and his party. It's an absolute disgrace.
    You might look closer to home as to who let a number of those rough sleepers into the country.... Life has not been great for all of the 3 million Tony Blair let in to "rub the right's nose into diversity"....
    Indeed, it's not PC to say but the majority of homeless people I see - and, living above shops on a high street, I've had them literally sleeping by my front door - are from abroad, drawn here by the prospect of streets paved with gold, only to find they are not. Get rid of free movement and clamp down at the ports and the level of rough sleepers may eventually start to fall.
    No, he’s right about homelessness. The Blair Gvt almost ended it, but the numbers have now increased massively. We know how to help those people, because we’ve done it before. We should do it again.
  • Ave_it said:

    CAUTION!

    CORBYN could be PM in 10 days time!

    Any vote for LAB LD SNP GRN and PC is a vote for a hard left CORBYNISTA government. Don't do it!

    You're on the wrong site.
    We respond better on here if there's at least an attempt at logical argument.
  • The one thing that Starmer will have going for him is that the labor leadership has not used him during this campaign and so he will not be as assocaited with its consequences as Long Bailey and Pidcock. Against that, he will not be the Momentum candidate and he is a bloke.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Why would hard left membership vote for Starmer?
    Especially if Labour keep it fairly close in 10 days time, it will be one more heave strategy with a leader without all the baggage of Jezza.

    I agree, they havent taken over the party just to let it slip back to the centre ground. Starmer is a moderate and would move policy away from the left. I believe there are still enough left activists within the membership to ensure the Corbyn approved candidate will win.

    Remember if they do lose the election the membership won't be blaming Corbyn they will blame dirty tricks and the media. The former members and the voters see him as the problem but they don't get a say.
  • Labour will seize power probably some time in 2020. Boris will be thrown to the wolves after yet another failure to delivery Brexit, by a Tory eurosceptic right whose patience has finally snapped. Thereafter it will be Jezza versus Priti, the latter being too extreme for many with her pledge to introduce the iron maiden for universal-credit fraudsters.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,480
    edited December 2019
    Most of the new rough sleepers in Central London over the last two or three years are English people from outside London, as I've observed for a long time.

    This phenomenon is spreading outside central london to other parts of the capital now.
  • The one thing that Starmer will have going for him is that the labor leadership has not used him during this campaign and so he will not be as assocaited with its consequences as Long Bailey and Pidcock. Against that, he will not be the Momentum candidate and he is a bloke.

    Starmer would be the best in that he'd bring the party together.
    But he's not going to bring the party to the centre again, he isn't a Blairite. Anyone thinking he's going to be very centrist hasn't read much of his past or views. He'll be somewhere between Ed and Corbyn.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    Starmer is the future as Pidcock, Rayner and Long Bailey will scare off all the moderate potential LAB voters everywhere!

    Even though Starmer is entirely built on a golden spoon background and is a much use as a pink lemon.

    Could be LAB maj 150 in 2024!

    Starmer is a British Bill Shorten, better than Corbyn but a charisma bypass and no match for Boris. He would win a few more Tory Remainers and LDs to Labour but Leavers would stay Tory
    Starmer would destroy Boris week in week out at PM Question time.
    Just like William Hague used to win PMQs against Blair, week in week out,,,,,
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,713
    edited December 2019
    Ken Clarke endorses Gauke, so clearly no longer a Tory under Boris

    https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1201799051227934720?s=20
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411

    Ave_it said:

    CAUTION!

    CORBYN could be PM in 10 days time!

    Any vote for LAB LD SNP GRN and PC is a vote for a hard left CORBYNISTA government. Don't do it!

    You're on the wrong site.
    We respond better on here if there's at least an attempt at logical argument.
    I've been here since 2005. Always a reasoned point of view with Ave It!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,713
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    Starmer is the future as Pidcock, Rayner and Long Bailey will scare off all the moderate potential LAB voters everywhere!

    Even though Starmer is entirely built on a golden spoon background and is a much use as a pink lemon.

    Could be LAB maj 150 in 2024!

    Starmer is a British Bill Shorten, better than Corbyn but a charisma bypass and no match for Boris. He would win a few more Tory Remainers and LDs to Labour but Leavers would stay Tory
    Starmer would destroy Boris week in week out at PM Question time.
    So what William Hague won QT week in week out
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    HYUFD said:
    UK utterly doomed under the Tories then.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    edited December 2019
    Ave_it said:

    Ave_it said:

    CAUTION!

    CORBYN could be PM in 10 days time!

    Any vote for LAB LD SNP GRN and PC is a vote for a hard left CORBYNISTA government. Don't do it!

    You're on the wrong site.
    We respond better on here if there's at least an attempt at logical argument.
    I've been here since 2005. Always a reasoned point of view with Ave It!
    I think Fox News stole your slogan.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,713

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    Starmer is the future as Pidcock, Rayner and Long Bailey will scare off all the moderate potential LAB voters everywhere!

    Even though Starmer is entirely built on a golden spoon background and is a much use as a pink lemon.

    Could be LAB maj 150 in 2024!

    Starmer is a British Bill Shorten, better than Corbyn but a charisma bypass and no match for Boris. He would win a few more Tory Remainers and LDs to Labour but Leavers would stay Tory

    That rather depends on what the Tories do with the next five years, I'd have thought.

    Nope, culturally most Leavers will vote Tory over Labour now regardless
  • HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    Starmer is the future as Pidcock, Rayner and Long Bailey will scare off all the moderate potential LAB voters everywhere!

    Even though Starmer is entirely built on a golden spoon background and is a much use as a pink lemon.

    Could be LAB maj 150 in 2024!

    Starmer is a British Bill Shorten, better than Corbyn but a charisma bypass and no match for Boris. He would win a few more Tory Remainers and LDs to Labour but Leavers would stay Tory
    Starmer would destroy Boris week in week out at PM Question time.
    So what William Hague won QT week in week out
    And Corbyn actually got better at it, and his ratings went down...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,713
    madmacs said:

    From my limited knowledge of Labour, members I know in my area think the Labour left wing manifesto is great but just believe another more voter friendly left wing leader is the answer. They revile any links to Tony Blair. I would not put any money on Keir Starmer and still think Rebecca Long-Bailey the most likely.

    If true, a gift to the LDs after a heavy Labour defeat
  • As regards "the next leader to be a woman", what is the point if she is unelectable? You may as well hang on to Corbyn. Labour have tried the symbolism approach and it has been a failure. They need an electable Leader.

    We've got to hope that there are still enough sane people amongst the membership to realise this. I'm not optimistic.
    If that turns out to be the case, then the UK is in big trouble as it means we effectively become a one party state.

    Also, does Starmer end up being Neil Kinnock? Rebuilds the party and detoxifies the brand which takes ages, then loses the election? Who is John Smith?

    Starmer's job might be cleaning out the darker corners and then handing it on. It will probably depend on the speed and severity of the political blood-letting after Dec 12th.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    2.5% Lab to Con swing in London is very bad news for Labour. Even that replicated nationally would see a 20 seat majority for Boris, but Labour will outperform in London meaning the non-London swing will be closer to 5 points, enough for a 60-80 seat majority.
  • HYUFD said:

    Ken Clarke endorses Gauke, so clearly no longer a Tory under Boris

    https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1201799051227934720?s=20

    Good old Ken. He's ending his career as he began it - on the right side of history and with the betterment of the nation as his only aim.
  • HYUFD said:

    madmacs said:

    From my limited knowledge of Labour, members I know in my area think the Labour left wing manifesto is great but just believe another more voter friendly left wing leader is the answer. They revile any links to Tony Blair. I would not put any money on Keir Starmer and still think Rebecca Long-Bailey the most likely.

    If true, a gift to the LDs after a heavy Labour defeat
    Unfortunately it isn't looking that way. At best a slim Tory majority and Labour will be convinced with Brexit uncertainty ahead and most like a global recession that it will just require one more heave in a few years time.

    And....I think the way the wind appears to be blowing, the Lib Dem taking a left-centre social and a centre / centre-right economic party is going to struggle.
  • DeClare said:

    He comes across to me as a rather dull lawyer with zero charisma and the German sounding name won't help him either.
    Labour is now the only major party that has never had a woman leader and the pressure to find one will be intense.
    None of their leading female MPs impress me much though.

    Starmer is German sounding? Jeez, some folk's furriner antennae are a bit over excited.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961

    As regards "the next leader to be a woman", what is the point if she is unelectable? You may as well hang on to Corbyn. Labour have tried the symbolism approach and it has been a failure. They need an electable Leader.

    We've got to hope that there are still enough sane people amongst the membership to realise this. I'm not optimistic.
    If that turns out to be the case, then the UK is in big trouble as it means we effectively become a one party state.

    Also, does Starmer end up being Neil Kinnock? Rebuilds the party and detoxifies the brand which takes ages, then loses the election? Who is John Smith?

    Starmer's job might be cleaning out the darker corners and then handing it on. It will probably depend on the speed and severity of the political blood-letting after Dec 12th.
    You think Starmer is the man for "cleaning out the darker corners"? Really?
  • argyllrsargyllrs Posts: 155

    As regards "the next leader to be a woman", what is the point if she is unelectable? You may as well hang on to Corbyn. Labour have tried the symbolism approach and it has been a failure. They need an electable Leader.

    We've got to hope that there are still enough sane people amongst the membership to realise this. I'm not optimistic.
    If that turns out to be the case, then the UK is in big trouble as it means we effectively become a one party state.

    Also, does Starmer end up being Neil Kinnock? Rebuilds the party and detoxifies the brand which takes ages, then loses the election? Who is John Smith?

    Starmer's job might be cleaning out the darker corners and then handing it on. It will probably depend on the speed and severity of the political blood-letting after Dec 12th.
    Best woman for the job would have been Margret Hodge.
  • As regards "the next leader to be a woman", what is the point if she is unelectable? You may as well hang on to Corbyn. Labour have tried the symbolism approach and it has been a failure. They need an electable Leader.

    We've got to hope that there are still enough sane people amongst the membership to realise this. I'm not optimistic.
    If that turns out to be the case, then the UK is in big trouble as it means we effectively become a one party state.

    Also, does Starmer end up being Neil Kinnock? Rebuilds the party and detoxifies the brand which takes ages, then loses the election? Who is John Smith?

    Starmer's job might be cleaning out the darker corners and then handing it on. It will probably depend on the speed and severity of the political blood-letting after Dec 12th.
    You think Starmer is the man for "cleaning out the darker corners"? Really?
    You think Pidcock is going to do it? Or Long-Bailey? Corbyn certainly has not.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653

    As regards "the next leader to be a woman", what is the point if she is unelectable? You may as well hang on to Corbyn. Labour have tried the symbolism approach and it has been a failure. They need an electable Leader.

    Well I suppose they could choose a leader who lacks meat and two veg and is electable. Yvette Cooper.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,853
    edited December 2019
    madmacs said:

    From my limited knowledge of Labour, members I know in my area think the Labour left wing manifesto is great but just believe another more voter friendly left wing leader is the answer.

    I'm a member and I agree with this. There is no need to lose the radical edge. Quite the opposite, it is vital it is retained. If this election is lost it will be because of Brexit and the persona of Jeremy Corbyn being too niche. Next election, those two things being out of the picture, is winnable on a left wing manifesto. It would be a great mistake to go back to the timid tinkering lack of ambition of pre 2015. That almost every committed Tory on here says that we should do this speaks for itself.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,851
    Nigelb said:
    Lol the dems would much rather attack Trump than disown Obama's chief nonce
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    HYUFD said:

    Ken Clarke endorses Gauke, so clearly no longer a Tory under Boris

    https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1201799051227934720?s=20

    Good old Ken. He's ending his career as he began it - on the right side of history and with the betterment of the nation as his only aim.
    Regarding your 98% certainty there will be a hung parliament I'd still like to understand if you think Tories are overstated in the polls, Labour understated or a bit of both?...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited December 2019

    As regards "the next leader to be a woman", what is the point if she is unelectable? You may as well hang on to Corbyn. Labour have tried the symbolism approach and it has been a failure. They need an electable Leader.

    We've got to hope that there are still enough sane people amongst the membership to realise this. I'm not optimistic.
    If that turns out to be the case, then the UK is in big trouble as it means we effectively become a one party state.

    Also, does Starmer end up being Neil Kinnock? Rebuilds the party and detoxifies the brand which takes ages, then loses the election? Who is John Smith?

    Starmer's job might be cleaning out the darker corners and then handing it on. It will probably depend on the speed and severity of the political blood-letting after Dec 12th.
    The UK will never be a permanent one party state. If a primary party is incapable of being serious and electable it will either be replaced or sort itself out, even if it takes 14 years.
    We've had three times in the last century where there was a landslide because the opposition [after the election] was utterly unelectable and incapable of being elected: 1931, 1945 and 1997. The opposition was elected after that 14, 14 and 13 years later respectively.
    So perhaps we're due a Labour government by 2033? Fingers crossed that will be long enough to get themselves to sort themselves out.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961
    edited December 2019
    HYUFD said:
    Leavers: Cons lose 3% to Labour, gain 23% from Labour
    Remainers: Cons lose 6% to Labour, gain 2%

    Net gain: Cons 16% - an 8% swing from Labour to Con.

    An average 8%. It's going to be lumpy as all hell....
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,620
    Surprised there hasn't been more chat about the potential weather on Thursday week.

    Models today look, erm, interesting to say the least.

    Basic round up here:

    https://www.netweather.tv/weather-forecasts/news/9961-cold-snowy-general-election-day-next-week-a-possibility-according-to-the-weather-models
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Ave_it said:

    CAUTION!

    CORBYN could be PM in 10 days time!

    Any vote for LAB LD SNP GRN and PC is a vote for a hard left CORBYNISTA government. Don't do it!

    Complete crap! Is this Groundhog Day?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    Surprised there hasn't been more chat about the potential weather on Thursday week.

    Models today look, erm, interesting to say the least.

    Basic round up here:

    https://www.netweather.tv/weather-forecasts/news/9961-cold-snowy-general-election-day-next-week-a-possibility-according-to-the-weather-models

    The blue rinse battalion will turn out whatever the weather. :o
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,405
    I've been advocating Starmer as next leader for at least a couple of years.

    My 2nd choice would be Jess Phillips.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,713

    HYUFD said:

    madmacs said:

    From my limited knowledge of Labour, members I know in my area think the Labour left wing manifesto is great but just believe another more voter friendly left wing leader is the answer. They revile any links to Tony Blair. I would not put any money on Keir Starmer and still think Rebecca Long-Bailey the most likely.

    If true, a gift to the LDs after a heavy Labour defeat
    Unfortunately it isn't looking that way. At best a slim Tory majority and Labour will be convinced with Brexit uncertainty ahead and most like a global recession that it will just require one more heave in a few years time.

    And....I think the way the wind appears to be blowing, the Lib Dem taking a left-centre social and a centre / centre-right economic party is going to struggle.
    Labour is heading for its worst defeat since Foot 1983, thanks to losses of scores of seats North of Watford.

    Then Labour recovered by taking on Militant under Kinnock then New Labour under Blair, had it not the SDP could have overtaken it being just 2% behind in 1983.

    If the LDs get a leader from Labour like Roy Jenkins was e.g. Umunna with no connection to the Coalition then Labour is doomed if it embraces Momentum further rather than taking it on
  • RobD said:

    Surprised there hasn't been more chat about the potential weather on Thursday week.

    Models today look, erm, interesting to say the least.

    Basic round up here:

    https://www.netweather.tv/weather-forecasts/news/9961-cold-snowy-general-election-day-next-week-a-possibility-according-to-the-weather-models

    The blue rinse battalion will turn out whatever the weather. :o
    'When Bingo opens at 4.30 and a bit of drizzle isn't stopping you': Moment a very determined mobility scooter user powers her way through rising flood water in Sheffield

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7664323/Mobility-scooter-user-powers-rising-floods-Sheffield.html
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    Starmer is the future as Pidcock, Rayner and Long Bailey will scare off all the moderate potential LAB voters everywhere!

    Even though Starmer is entirely built on a golden spoon background and is a much use as a pink lemon.

    Could be LAB maj 150 in 2024!

    Starmer is a British Bill Shorten, better than Corbyn but a charisma bypass and no match for Boris. He would win a few more Tory Remainers and LDs to Labour but Leavers would stay Tory

    That rather depends on what the Tories do with the next five years, I'd have thought.

    Nope, culturally most Leavers will vote Tory over Labour now regardless

    I love the smell of hubris in the morning. I am not wishing it on a single one of them, but it is a simple fact that over the next five years a lot of Leave voters are going to die. My advice to the Tories - which I am sure will be ignored - is not to keep on fighting the referendum, but instead begin to engage with the 21st century and the challenges it presents.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,713
    edited December 2019

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    Starmer is the future as Pidcock, Rayner and Long Bailey will scare off all the moderate potential LAB voters everywhere!

    Even though Starmer is entirely built on a golden spoon background and is a much use as a pink lemon.

    Could be LAB maj 150 in 2024!

    Starmer is a British Bill Shorten, better than Corbyn but a charisma bypass and no match for Boris. He would win a few more Tory Remainers and LDs to Labour but Leavers would stay Tory

    That rather depends on what the Tories do with the next five years, I'd have thought.

    Nope, culturally most Leavers will vote Tory over Labour now regardless

    I love the smell of hubris in the morning. I am not wishing it on a single one of them, but it is a simple fact that over the next five years a lot of Leave voters are going to die. My advice to the Tories - which I am sure will be ignored - is not to keep on fighting the referendum, but instead begin to engage with the 21st century and the challenges it presents.
    Most voters over 45 voted Leave, not over 75, over 35 North of Watford.

    Most Remainers are not going to vote Tory now regardless, ignore Leavers and it will be the Brexit Party gaining at Tories expense
  • Nigelb said:
    Lol the dems would much rather attack Trump than disown Obama's chief nonce
    G.Conway is a Rep and married to Kellyanne isn't he?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    Surprised there hasn't been more chat about the potential weather on Thursday week.

    Models today look, erm, interesting to say the least.

    Basic round up here:

    https://www.netweather.tv/weather-forecasts/news/9961-cold-snowy-general-election-day-next-week-a-possibility-according-to-the-weather-models

    The blue rinse battalion will turn out whatever the weather. :o
    'When Bingo opens at 4.30 and a bit of drizzle isn't stopping you': Moment a very determined mobility scooter user powers her way through rising flood water in Sheffield

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7664323/Mobility-scooter-user-powers-rising-floods-Sheffield.html
    Like drones, with one mind (between them).
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    kinabalu said:

    madmacs said:

    From my limited knowledge of Labour, members I know in my area think the Labour left wing manifesto is great but just believe another more voter friendly left wing leader is the answer.

    I'm a member and I agree with this. There is no need to lose the radical edge. Quite the opposite, it is vital it is retained. If this election is lost it will be because of Brexit and the persona of Jeremy Corbyn being too niche. Next election, those two things being out of the picture, is winnable on a left wing manifesto. It would be a great mistake to go back to the timid tinkering lack of ambition of pre 2015. That almost every committed Tory on here says that we should do this speaks for itself.
    When labour lose it will because of ridiculous nationalization plans and retrograde return of power to trade unions. Without those policies the rest may have gained traction.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited December 2019
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    madmacs said:

    From my limited knowledge of Labour, members I know in my area think the Labour left wing manifesto is great but just believe another more voter friendly left wing leader is the answer. They revile any links to Tony Blair. I would not put any money on Keir Starmer and still think Rebecca Long-Bailey the most likely.

    If true, a gift to the LDs after a heavy Labour defeat
    Unfortunately it isn't looking that way. At best a slim Tory majority and Labour will be convinced with Brexit uncertainty ahead and most like a global recession that it will just require one more heave in a few years time.

    And....I think the way the wind appears to be blowing, the Lib Dem taking a left-centre social and a centre / centre-right economic party is going to struggle.
    Labour is heading for its worst defeat since Foot 1983, thanks to losses of scores of seats North of Watford.

    Then Labour recovered by taking on Militant under Kinnock then New Labour under Blair, had it not the SDP could have overtaken it being just 2% behind in 1983.

    If the LDs get a leader from Labour like Roy Jenkins was e.g. Umunna with no connection to the Coalition then Labour is doomed if it embraces Momentum further rather than taking it on
    Chuka won't be an MP after the election. The LDs will only have about a dozen MPs to choose a leader from.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    Starmer is the future as Pidcock, Rayner and Long Bailey will scare off all the moderate potential LAB voters everywhere!

    Even though Starmer is entirely built on a golden spoon background and is a much use as a pink lemon.

    Could be LAB maj 150 in 2024!

    Starmer is a British Bill Shorten, better than Corbyn but a charisma bypass and no match for Boris. He would win a few more Tory Remainers and LDs to Labour but Leavers would stay Tory

    That rather depends on what the Tories do with the next five years, I'd have thought.

    Nope, culturally most Leavers will vote Tory over Labour now regardless

    I love the smell of hubris in the morning. I am not wishing it on a single one of them, but it is a simple fact that over the next five years a lot of Leave voters are going to die. My advice to the Tories - which I am sure will be ignored - is not to keep on fighting the referendum, but instead begin to engage with the 21st century and the challenges it presents.
    Very good advice.
  • RobD said:

    HYUFD said:
    UK utterly doomed under the Tories then.

    Improvements in maths, but "there has been no significant change for reading or science, with scores remaining broadly similar in Pisa tests since 2006, despite fluctuations in rankings". If you look at the detail, the advances are mostly about the high performing children of immigrants. Schools have become better at identifying the most talented kids, focusing on them and leaving the rest to fester.

  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    HYUFD said:

    madmacs said:

    From my limited knowledge of Labour, members I know in my area think the Labour left wing manifesto is great but just believe another more voter friendly left wing leader is the answer. They revile any links to Tony Blair. I would not put any money on Keir Starmer and still think Rebecca Long-Bailey the most likely.

    If true, a gift to the LDs after a heavy Labour defeat
    Unfortunately it isn't looking that way. At best a slim Tory majority and Labour will be convinced with Brexit uncertainty ahead and most like a global recession that it will just require one more heave in a few years time.

    And....I think the way the wind appears to be blowing, the Lib Dem taking a left-centre social and a centre / centre-right economic party is going to struggle.

    Tory 60+ majority labour sub 200
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,620

    Nigelb said:
    Lol the dems would much rather attack Trump than disown Obama's chief nonce
    G.Conway is a Rep and married to Kellyanne isn't he?
    Yes, it's a bit of an odd relationship, to put it mildly...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,713

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    madmacs said:

    From my limited knowledge of Labour, members I know in my area think the Labour left wing manifesto is great but just believe another more voter friendly left wing leader is the answer. They revile any links to Tony Blair. I would not put any money on Keir Starmer and still think Rebecca Long-Bailey the most likely.

    If true, a gift to the LDs after a heavy Labour defeat
    Unfortunately it isn't looking that way. At best a slim Tory majority and Labour will be convinced with Brexit uncertainty ahead and most like a global recession that it will just require one more heave in a few years time.

    And....I think the way the wind appears to be blowing, the Lib Dem taking a left-centre social and a centre / centre-right economic party is going to struggle.
    Labour is heading for its worst defeat since Foot 1983, thanks to losses of scores of seats North of Watford.

    Then Labour recovered by taking on Militant under Kinnock then New Labour under Blair, had it not the SDP could have overtaken it being just 2% behind in 1983.

    If the LDs get a leader from Labour like Roy Jenkins was e.g. Umunna with no connection to the Coalition then Labour is doomed if it embraces Momentum further rather than taking it on
    Chuka won't be an MP after the election. The LDs will only have about a dozen MPs to choose a leader from.
    Chuka is more likely to be an MP than almost any Labour candidate in a Tory seat
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    Starmer is the future as Pidcock, Rayner and Long Bailey will scare off all the moderate potential LAB voters everywhere!

    Even though Starmer is entirely built on a golden spoon background and is a much use as a pink lemon.

    Could be LAB maj 150 in 2024!

    Starmer is a British Bill Shorten, better than Corbyn but a charisma bypass and no match for Boris. He would win a few more Tory Remainers and LDs to Labour but Leavers would stay Tory

    That rather depends on what the Tories do with the next five years, I'd have thought.

    Nope, culturally most Leavers will vote Tory over Labour now regardless

    I love the smell of hubris in the morning. I am not wishing it on a single one of them, but it is a simple fact that over the next five years a lot of Leave voters are going to die. My advice to the Tories - which I am sure will be ignored - is not to keep on fighting the referendum, but instead begin to engage with the 21st century and the challenges it presents.
    We won't need to keep on fighting the Referendum.
    We'll be fighting Rejoin. If anybody can still be arsed to make the case....
  • RobD said:

    Surprised there hasn't been more chat about the potential weather on Thursday week.

    Models today look, erm, interesting to say the least.

    Basic round up here:

    https://www.netweather.tv/weather-forecasts/news/9961-cold-snowy-general-election-day-next-week-a-possibility-according-to-the-weather-models

    The blue rinse battalion will turn out whatever the weather. :o
    'When Bingo opens at 4.30 and a bit of drizzle isn't stopping you': Moment a very determined mobility scooter user powers her way through rising flood water in Sheffield

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7664323/Mobility-scooter-user-powers-rising-floods-Sheffield.html
    Turnout in December 1923 was 71%.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    Starmer is the future as Pidcock, Rayner and Long Bailey will scare off all the moderate potential LAB voters everywhere!

    Even though Starmer is entirely built on a golden spoon background and is a much use as a pink lemon.

    Could be LAB maj 150 in 2024!

    Starmer is a British Bill Shorten, better than Corbyn but a charisma bypass and no match for Boris. He would win a few more Tory Remainers and LDs to Labour but Leavers would stay Tory

    That rather depends on what the Tories do with the next five years, I'd have thought.

    Nope, culturally most Leavers will vote Tory over Labour now regardless

    I love the smell of hubris in the morning. I am not wishing it on a single one of them, but it is a simple fact that over the next five years a lot of Leave voters are going to die. My advice to the Tories - which I am sure will be ignored - is not to keep on fighting the referendum, but instead begin to engage with the 21st century and the challenges it presents.
    Most voters over 45 voted Leave, not over 75, over 35 North of Watford.

    Most Remainers are not going to vote Tory now regardless, ignore Leavers and it will be the Brexit Party gaining at Tories expense

    Yep, I guess if you support Tory FC a focus on Leavers is the best strategy. If, on the other hand, you want what is best for the country you might see things differently.

  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    HYUFD said:
    Leavers: Cons lose 3% to Labour, gain 23% from Labour
    Remainers: Cons lose 6% to Labour, gain 2%

    Net gain: Cons 16% - an 8% swing from Labour to Con.

    An average 8%. It's going to be lumpy as all hell....
    This confuses me somewhat, is the Labour leave category not a much smaller group than the Con leave group hence a 23% move to Con isn't actually a huge amount of voters?

    Either way I'd estimate there will be approx 1m Lab to Con leave movers in line with what a lot of the polling suggests, that is going to be 2,000+ people in each constituency in the North and Midlands then the gains will be substantial.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,235
    Ave_it said:

    Ave_it said:

    CAUTION!

    CORBYN could be PM in 10 days time!

    Any vote for LAB LD SNP GRN and PC is a vote for a hard left CORBYNISTA government. Don't do it!

    You're on the wrong site.
    We respond better on here if there's at least an attempt at logical argument.
    I've been here since 2005. Always a reasoned point of view with Ave It!
    More to the point your posts prevent a buildup of unused exclamation marks and are therefore useful as well as ornamental.
    And, to be fair, they are also mercifully short... :)
    (ducks, runs out of door)
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    nichomar said:

    Ave_it said:

    CAUTION!

    CORBYN could be PM in 10 days time!

    Any vote for LAB LD SNP GRN and PC is a vote for a hard left CORBYNISTA government. Don't do it!

    Complete crap! Is this Groundhog Day?
    No that's a film. Don't forget if CORBYN wins I will have to move into your hacienda as LAB will confiscate all UK privately owned property.

    I am on Ryanair website now looking at the flight options.

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688
    Starmer is;

    1/ Not a woman
    2/ Not really in the cabal
    3/ Sufficiently in the cabal to not be trusted
    4/ Oily

    I do think he's the best Labour have got, but that's not saying much, and for the reasons above I can't see him getting the job.

    Corbyn won't go anyway. He'll hang on whatever the result. Even McDonnell knows this.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961
    Stocky said:

    As regards "the next leader to be a woman", what is the point if she is unelectable? You may as well hang on to Corbyn. Labour have tried the symbolism approach and it has been a failure. They need an electable Leader.

    Well I suppose they could choose a leader who lacks meat and two veg and is electable. Yvette Cooper.
    She may lack a seat though....
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    Starmer is the future as Pidcock, Rayner and Long Bailey will scare off all the moderate potential LAB voters everywhere!

    Even though Starmer is entirely built on a golden spoon background and is a much use as a pink lemon.

    Could be LAB maj 150 in 2024!

    Starmer is a British Bill Shorten, better than Corbyn but a charisma bypass and no match for Boris. He would win a few more Tory Remainers and LDs to Labour but Leavers would stay Tory

    That rather depends on what the Tories do with the next five years, I'd have thought.

    Nope, culturally most Leavers will vote Tory over Labour now regardless

    I love the smell of hubris in the morning. I am not wishing it on a single one of them, but it is a simple fact that over the next five years a lot of Leave voters are going to die. My advice to the Tories - which I am sure will be ignored - is not to keep on fighting the referendum, but instead begin to engage with the 21st century and the challenges it presents.
    Most voters over 45 voted Leave, not over 75, over 35 North of Watford.

    Most Remainers are not going to vote Tory now regardless, ignore Leavers and it will be the Brexit Party gaining at Tories expense

    Yep, I guess if you support Tory FC a focus on Leavers is the best strategy. If, on the other hand, you want what is best for the country you might see things differently.

    I don't understand your logic.

    Elections are about winning power. What is best for the country is how you exercise power. And Leaving is about being able to democratically control that. Its all integrated. If you want the best for the country then you need to be able to get the best to exercise the leavers of power and kick them out if they're no good.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,851

    Nigelb said:
    Lol the dems would much rather attack Trump than disown Obama's chief nonce
    G.Conway is a Rep and married to Kellyanne isn't he?
    Ok, dems and weird Republican husbands of crackpot Conway women are all about attacking trump and not disowning Obama's Nonce in Chief
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,265
    Further update on tactical voting (from the Guardian blog):

    Almost a third of voters now say they will vote tactically in the election, according to polling carried out for the Electoral Reform Society (ERS), with the proportion rising rapidly.

    The polling by BMG found 30% of people said they would be “voting for the best-positioned party/candidate to keep out another party/candidate that I dislike” on 12 December. This is up from 22% saying this at the start of the election campaign, and 24% in a parallel poll last week.

    Only 51% of people said they would pick “the candidate/party I most prefer, regardless of how likely they are to win”.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,853
    edited December 2019
    nichomar said:

    When labour lose it will because of ridiculous nationalization plans and retrograde return of power to trade unions. Without those policies the rest may have gained traction.

    I don't think so. We have a structural issue with Brexit. Impossible to square the circle of being Remain enough to protect against the LDs without appearing to disrespect Leave voters in the North/Midlands. And on top of that, Jeremy Corbyn is a turn off to those same voters. No Brexit, no Corbyn, I think we can win. No need IMO to lurch to the centre on policy.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,395
    HYUFD said:
    Not doing so well in Scotland, needless to say. Falling behind mitteleuropa in maths and science. Be interesting to see how much coverage the stats get in the Scottish press given Nicola's pledge that it is her number one priority and the pride Scots take in education.

    Don't think Southron posters appreciate how vulnerable SNP will be over 'elf and edukayshon in the run up to the 2021 SP elections.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Most of the new rough sleepers in Central London over the last two or three years are English people from outside London, as I've observed for a long time.
    This phenomenon is spreading outside central london to other parts of the capital now.

    Can’t we speak to these people, and find out what we can do for them? Most of them will have friends or family somewhere and might simply benefit from a bus ticket. Others will have mental health or addiction problems and need more intensive management, but we should do everything we can do help them. There will be a few for whom it’s just a way of life, and we should make sure they get sufficient food and have the opportunity to get off the streets if they want to take it.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Ave_it said:

    CAUTION!

    CORBYN could be PM in 10 days time!

    Any vote for LAB LD SNP GRN and PC is a vote for a hard left CORBYNISTA government. Don't do it!

    You're on the wrong site.
    We respond better on here if there's at least an attempt at logical argument.
    Fuck off. Ave It is a great PB institution.
This discussion has been closed.