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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Dominic Raab’s rock solid safe seat now a key GE2019 battlegro

SystemSystem Posts: 11,008
edited December 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Dominic Raab’s rock solid safe seat now a key GE2019 battleground

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  • Options
    camelcamel Posts: 815
    edited December 2019
    The early bird catches the worm.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,932
    I just don't see Raab following the Portillo / Balls post politics career path.
  • Options
    camelcamel Posts: 815
    eek said:

    I just don't see Raab following the Portillo / Balls post politics career path.

    Zero warmth.
  • Options
    Maybe Raab is drawing all the heavy fire away from other more promising seats, like Guildford.
  • Options
    Good if so.... headbangers need a little reminder that they are accountable to the electorate and at least make them work for their gold plated pensions.

    The best bit of this election - not saying much - is the wonderful absence from our screens of people like Bridgen and Private Francois - long may that continue please!
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,214
    I should learn more tomorrow.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    I imagine that everyone's already seen this, but anyway...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1202249094862983170

    Johnson's ratings down only a touch, Corbyn flatlining. Johnson 24 points ahead of Corbyn (and the Tories also 22 points ahead of Labour on "best campaign" question.)

    Perhaps the Conservatives are winning the campaign this time? Seven days remaining for Labour to turn things around.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,793
    We all know the Lib-Dems are going to fall short here don't we? ;)
  • Options
    eek said:

    I just don't see Raab following the Portillo / Balls post politics career path.

    If things go well next Thursday, next year's Strictly line up could be entirely composed of former politicians.

    My money would be on Iain Duncan Smith v Emma Little Pengelly to end up in the dance-off first.
  • Options
    I hope the Lib Dems put all their efforts into Raab's seat. Send as many activists as you can to defeat him, leave no stone unturned. Go on Lib Dems, you've no need to go anywhere else all go to Esher.
  • Options
    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    edited December 2019
    I presume OGH's letters are like confetti in the post boxes of the poor voters of Esher...
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited December 2019
    Just to get everybody in the mood...BBC Exit polls 1992-2017..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myntJD4EXaQ
  • Options
    BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    I reckon the Tories might win Canterbury back if they get a majority. Would only take a tiny drop in the Labour vote and I'd imagine the student vote will be down slightly. Julien Brazier seemed part of the problem by the end but the new candidate is a fresher face. It's perhaps worth noting Brazier's majority halved between 1997 and 2001 to 1500 votes when the Labour candidate was one Emily Thornberry.

    Yes there are Lib Dems to squeeze but its also a place where the yellow vote should hold up well, no BXP either.

    If that 72% turnout from Canterbury 2017 returns to the mid 60s as it was for the previous 3 elections then I reckon Duffield will be the loser.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,793
    JohnO said:

    I should learn more tomorrow.

    We're all relying on you Lord JohnO.
  • Options

    Just to get everybody in the mood...BBC Exit polls 1992-2017..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myntJD4EXaQ

    Is this your idea of foreplay?
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited December 2019

    I imagine that everyone's already seen this, but anyway...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1202249094862983170

    Johnson's ratings down only a touch, Corbyn flatlining. Johnson 24 points ahead of Corbyn (and the Tories also 22 points ahead of Labour on "best campaign" question.)

    Perhaps the Conservatives are winning the campaign this time? Seven days remaining for Labour to turn things around.

    Basically Jezza is exactly where he started the campaign.

    I am really struggling to get my head around the Tories winning the campaign by such a margin....I wouldn't vote Corbyn if he was the only choice on the ballot, but I think they have had a better campaign than the Tories (even if the policies are a combination of ridiculously expensive, self defeating and / or unworkable).
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,214

    I presume OGH's letters are like confetti in the post boxes of the poor voters of Esher...

    Nothing from Mike in mine but today's was Ian Taylor's statement recommending us all to vote for the LibDem.

    Of course, Mr Taylor bequeathed a majority of 7,700 in 2010, so his fan base can perhaps be overstated.
  • Options
    GIN1138 said:

    JohnO said:

    I should learn more tomorrow.

    We're all relying on you Lord JohnO.
    JohnO won’t let us down.

    Damian Hinds has been fighting East Hants pretty hard as it happens, with hustings, responses to my emails and good quality literature.

    I’ve had nothing from the Lib Dems at all (aren’t I lucky?) and the candidate doesn’t even live in the seat, so I can only conclude a token effort is being made.

    Safe Tory hold.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,793

    Just to get everybody in the mood...BBC Exit polls 1992-2017..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myntJD4EXaQ

    Everyone loves a Big Bong but that one has multiple Big Bongs. :D
  • Options

    I imagine that everyone's already seen this, but anyway...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1202249094862983170

    Johnson's ratings down only a touch, Corbyn flatlining. Johnson 24 points ahead of Corbyn (and the Tories also 22 points ahead of Labour on "best campaign" question.)

    Perhaps the Conservatives are winning the campaign this time? Seven days remaining for Labour to turn things around.

    Odd phrasing. Johnson's ratings are the same as last week and Corbyn's gone down a touch - if that were even possible!
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957
    edited December 2019
    I think Raab will cling on but I expect Remain voting Esher and Walton to be more marginal for the Tories after this election than traditional bellweather seats in Leave areas like Harlow, Thurrock, Gravesham, Dartford and Nuneaton and Rugby which will have bigger Tory majorities. While Surrey is shifting from safe Tory to Tory LD marginal, Essex for example is shifting from Tory Labour marginal to safe Tory
  • Options

    Just to get everybody in the mood...BBC Exit polls 1992-2017..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myntJD4EXaQ

    Is this your idea of foreplay?
    I got to 1997 and did a Chesil Beach.
  • Options
    BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    I imagine that everyone's already seen this, but anyway...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1202249094862983170

    Johnson's ratings down only a touch, Corbyn flatlining. Johnson 24 points ahead of Corbyn (and the Tories also 22 points ahead of Labour on "best campaign" question.)

    Perhaps the Conservatives are winning the campaign this time? Seven days remaining for Labour to turn things around.

    Basically Jezza is exactly where he started the campaign.

    I am really struggling to get my head around the Tories winning the campaign by such a margin....I wouldn't vote Corbyn if he was the only choice on the ballot, but I think they have had a better campaign than the Tories (even if the policies are a combination of ridiculously expensive, self defeating and / or unworkable).
    The only positive in those numbers for Labour is the NHS being a bigger election issue than Brexit.
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,214
    Of course I won't let you down.

    I'm honest and faithful right up to the end! Woof.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957
    edited December 2019
    Brom said:

    I reckon the Tories might win Canterbury back if they get a majority. Would only take a tiny drop in the Labour vote and I'd imagine the student vote will be down slightly. Julien Brazier seemed part of the problem by the end but the new candidate is a fresher face. It's perhaps worth noting Brazier's majority halved between 1997 and 2001 to 1500 votes when the Labour candidate was one Emily Thornberry.

    Yes there are Lib Dems to squeeze but its also a place where the yellow vote should hold up well, no BXP either.

    If that 72% turnout from Canterbury 2017 returns to the mid 60s as it was for the previous 3 elections then I reckon Duffield will be the loser.

    Canterbury voted Remain (as a constituency) and has 2 universities, it will be a Labour hold in my view even if the Tories gain Leave seats like Bolsover and Grimsby
  • Options

    I imagine that everyone's already seen this, but anyway...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1202249094862983170

    Johnson's ratings down only a touch, Corbyn flatlining. Johnson 24 points ahead of Corbyn (and the Tories also 22 points ahead of Labour on "best campaign" question.)

    Perhaps the Conservatives are winning the campaign this time? Seven days remaining for Labour to turn things around.

    Basically Jezza is exactly where he started the campaign.

    I am really struggling to get my head around the Tories winning the campaign by such a margin....I wouldn't vote Corbyn if he was the only choice on the ballot, but I think they have had a better campaign than the Tories (even if the policies are a combination of ridiculously expensive, self defeating and / or unworkable).
    if you look at the stats, they were chipping away and perceived to be improving but then in the last week ...

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EK8_Lw9X0AEs05e.png:large
  • Options

    I imagine that everyone's already seen this, but anyway...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1202249094862983170

    Johnson's ratings down only a touch, Corbyn flatlining. Johnson 24 points ahead of Corbyn (and the Tories also 22 points ahead of Labour on "best campaign" question.)

    Perhaps the Conservatives are winning the campaign this time? Seven days remaining for Labour to turn things around.

    Odd phrasing. Johnson's ratings are the same as last week and Corbyn's gone down a touch - if that were even possible!

    I imagine that everyone's already seen this, but anyway...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1202249094862983170

    Johnson's ratings down only a touch, Corbyn flatlining. Johnson 24 points ahead of Corbyn (and the Tories also 22 points ahead of Labour on "best campaign" question.)

    Perhaps the Conservatives are winning the campaign this time? Seven days remaining for Labour to turn things around.

    Odd phrasing. Johnson's ratings are the same as last week and Corbyn's gone down a touch - if that were even possible!

    I imagine that everyone's already seen this, but anyway...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1202249094862983170

    Johnson's ratings down only a touch, Corbyn flatlining. Johnson 24 points ahead of Corbyn (and the Tories also 22 points ahead of Labour on "best campaign" question.)

    Perhaps the Conservatives are winning the campaign this time? Seven days remaining for Labour to turn things around.

    Odd phrasing. Johnson's ratings are the same as last week and Corbyn's gone down a touch - if that were even possible!
    Leader net favorability, historically a good predictor, suggests a Tory lead of 8-9pp in terms of vote share, rather than the 16pp in the latest Mori poll.
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,214
    HYUFD said:

    Brom said:

    I reckon the Tories might win Canterbury back if they get a majority. Would only take a tiny drop in the Labour vote and I'd imagine the student vote will be down slightly. Julien Brazier seemed part of the problem by the end but the new candidate is a fresher face. It's perhaps worth noting Brazier's majority halved between 1997 and 2001 to 1500 votes when the Labour candidate was one Emily Thornberry.

    Yes there are Lib Dems to squeeze but its also a place where the yellow vote should hold up well, no BXP either.

    If that 72% turnout from Canterbury 2017 returns to the mid 60s as it was for the previous 3 elections then I reckon Duffield will be the loser.

    Canterbury voted Remain (as a constituency) and has 2 universities, it will be a Labour hold in my view even if the Tories gain Leave seats like Bolsover and Grimsby
    How about a £10 charity bet? I say the Tories will regain Canterbury.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited December 2019

    Odd phrasing. Johnson's ratings are the same as last week and Corbyn's gone down a touch - if that were even possible!

    Leader net favorability, historically a good predictor, suggests a Tory lead of 8-9pp in terms of vote share, rather than the 16pp in the latest Mori poll.
    How do you figure when there is a 24% net difference between the two parties?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957
    JohnO said:

    HYUFD said:

    Brom said:

    I reckon the Tories might win Canterbury back if they get a majority. Would only take a tiny drop in the Labour vote and I'd imagine the student vote will be down slightly. Julien Brazier seemed part of the problem by the end but the new candidate is a fresher face. It's perhaps worth noting Brazier's majority halved between 1997 and 2001 to 1500 votes when the Labour candidate was one Emily Thornberry.

    Yes there are Lib Dems to squeeze but its also a place where the yellow vote should hold up well, no BXP either.

    If that 72% turnout from Canterbury 2017 returns to the mid 60s as it was for the previous 3 elections then I reckon Duffield will be the loser.

    Canterbury voted Remain (as a constituency) and has 2 universities, it will be a Labour hold in my view even if the Tories gain Leave seats like Bolsover and Grimsby
    How about a £10 charity bet? I say the Tories will regain Canterbury.
    Agreed, though I think the Tories will get a majority overall
  • Options

    Odd phrasing. Johnson's ratings are the same as last week and Corbyn's gone down a touch - if that were even possible!

    Leader net favorability, historically a good predictor, suggests a Tory lead of 8-9pp in terms of vote share, rather than the 16pp in the latest Mori poll.
    How do you figure when there is a 24% net difference between the two parties?
    Plot the data going back to 1979. The coefficient isn't 1.
  • Options

    I presume OGH's letters are like confetti in the post boxes of the poor voters of Esher...

    As I have made clear these mailings were NOT approved by me.
  • Options
    BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    edited December 2019

    I imagine that everyone's already seen this, but anyway...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1202249094862983170

    Johnson's ratings down only a touch, Corbyn flatlining. Johnson 24 points ahead of Corbyn (and the Tories also 22 points ahead of Labour on "best campaign" question.)

    Perhaps the Conservatives are winning the campaign this time? Seven days remaining for Labour to turn things around.

    Odd phrasing. Johnson's ratings are the same as last week and Corbyn's gone down a touch - if that were even possible!
    Leader net favorability, historically a good predictor, suggests a Tory lead of 8-9pp in terms of vote share, rather than the 16pp in the latest Mori poll.

    The favourability then (i.e. when the poll said a 16 point lead) was -9 to -38, what sort of lead does that suggest?
  • Options

    I imagine that everyone's already seen this, but anyway...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1202249094862983170

    Johnson's ratings down only a touch, Corbyn flatlining. Johnson 24 points ahead of Corbyn (and the Tories also 22 points ahead of Labour on "best campaign" question.)

    Perhaps the Conservatives are winning the campaign this time? Seven days remaining for Labour to turn things around.

    Basically Jezza is exactly where he started the campaign.

    I am really struggling to get my head around the Tories winning the campaign by such a margin....I wouldn't vote Corbyn if he was the only choice on the ballot, but I think they have had a better campaign than the Tories (even if the policies are a combination of ridiculously expensive, self defeating and / or unworkable).
    if you look at the stats, they were chipping away and perceived to be improving but then in the last week ...

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EK8_Lw9X0AEs05e.png:large
    What could have happened in that time period to remind people what an utter disaster Corbyn would be for the country...?
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,214
    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    HYUFD said:

    Brom said:

    I reckon the Tories might win Canterbury back if they get a majority. Would only take a tiny drop in the Labour vote and I'd imagine the student vote will be down slightly. Julien Brazier seemed part of the problem by the end but the new candidate is a fresher face. It's perhaps worth noting Brazier's majority halved between 1997 and 2001 to 1500 votes when the Labour candidate was one Emily Thornberry.

    Yes there are Lib Dems to squeeze but its also a place where the yellow vote should hold up well, no BXP either.

    If that 72% turnout from Canterbury 2017 returns to the mid 60s as it was for the previous 3 elections then I reckon Duffield will be the loser.

    Canterbury voted Remain (as a constituency) and has 2 universities, it will be a Labour hold in my view even if the Tories gain Leave seats like Bolsover and Grimsby
    How about a £10 charity bet? I say the Tories will regain Canterbury.
    Agreed, though I think the Tories will get a majority overall
    Thanks. One to watch. Too scarred from 2017 to make a prediction nationally.
  • Options

    Odd phrasing. Johnson's ratings are the same as last week and Corbyn's gone down a touch - if that were even possible!

    Leader net favorability, historically a good predictor, suggests a Tory lead of 8-9pp in terms of vote share, rather than the 16pp in the latest Mori poll.
    How do you figure when there is a 24% net difference between the two parties?
    Plot the data going back to 1979. The coefficient isn't 1.
    That's not many samples.

    I don't have access to the data, how often has there been a 24% net difference between the two parties (or comparable to that) and what gap was there then?
  • Options

    Odd phrasing. Johnson's ratings are the same as last week and Corbyn's gone down a touch - if that were even possible!

    Leader net favorability, historically a good predictor, suggests a Tory lead of 8-9pp in terms of vote share, rather than the 16pp in the latest Mori poll.
    How do you figure when there is a 24% net difference between the two parties?
    Plot the data going back to 1979. The coefficient isn't 1.
    Sorry, your post implied you had a model or relationship. Genuinely curious - could you show your workings, please?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,140

    Good if so.... headbangers need a little reminder that they are accountable to the electorate and at least make them work for their gold plated pensions.

    The best bit of this election - not saying much - is the wonderful absence from our screens of people like Bridgen and Private Francois - long may that continue please!

    That hadn't struck me but, yes, now you mention it, it really has been nice to have those dense and vulgar 'hard' Brexit types off screen for a while. I suppose they'll be back though, same old shtick next year, banging on constantly about not extending the Transition otherwise it's a betrayal of 17.4 million voters and it's "not Brexit".
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,226

    I imagine that everyone's already seen this, but anyway...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1202249094862983170

    Johnson's ratings down only a touch, Corbyn flatlining. Johnson 24 points ahead of Corbyn (and the Tories also 22 points ahead of Labour on "best campaign" question.)

    Perhaps the Conservatives are winning the campaign this time? Seven days remaining for Labour to turn things around.

    Basically Jezza is exactly where he started the campaign.

    I am really struggling to get my head around the Tories winning the campaign by such a margin....I wouldn't vote Corbyn if he was the only choice on the ballot, but I think they have had a better campaign than the Tories (even if the policies are a combination of ridiculously expensive, self defeating and / or unworkable).
    This campaign has at least killed the crap spun here by certain PB regulars that Bozo is somehow an Ace campaigner. In reality he is hiding behind the sofa and counting the days to next Thursday, while his party is barely fighting a campaign at all.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Raab C Brexit would be a sad loss. A truly great man, one of the few titans left in British politics. And yet so modest.
  • Options



    I imagine that everyone's already seen this, but anyway...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1202249094862983170

    Johnson's ratings down only a touch, Corbyn flatlining. Johnson 24 points ahead of Corbyn (and the Tories also 22 points ahead of Labour on "best campaign" question.)

    Perhaps the Conservatives are winning the campaign this time? Seven days remaining for Labour to turn things around.

    Odd phrasing. Johnson's ratings are the same as last week and Corbyn's gone down a touch - if that were even possible!
    Leader net favorability, historically a good predictor, suggests a Tory lead of 8-9pp in terms of vote share, rather than the 16pp in the latest Mori poll.
    The favourability then (i.e. when the poll said a 16 point lead) was -9 to -38, what sort of lead does that suggest?


    I no longer have the spreadsheet in front of me, sorry. But probably something like 11pp off the top of my head. Mori's net leader favorability is a much better predictor than their headline poll numbers. Net favorability for Johnson-Corbyn is much less advantageous for the Tories than for Thatcher-Foot, but their headline poll numbers suggest a 1983 style lead. Leader favorability isn't in landslide territory this time around because (a) Corbyn has improved over the campaign and (b) people don't like Johnson either.
  • Options
    Mr. Jonathan, one of the titans was called Epimetheus (afterthought).

    He was the dimwitted brother of Prometheus (forethought).
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    I imagine that everyone's already seen this, but anyway...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1202249094862983170

    Johnson's ratings down only a touch, Corbyn flatlining. Johnson 24 points ahead of Corbyn (and the Tories also 22 points ahead of Labour on "best campaign" question.)

    Perhaps the Conservatives are winning the campaign this time? Seven days remaining for Labour to turn things around.

    Basically Jezza is exactly where he started the campaign.

    I am really struggling to get my head around the Tories winning the campaign by such a margin....I wouldn't vote Corbyn if he was the only choice on the ballot, but I think they have had a better campaign than the Tories (even if the policies are a combination of ridiculously expensive, self defeating and / or unworkable).
    It is just possible that a sufficient proportion of the electorate has seen through the "free everything" strategy, and rejected it as dangerous and/or laughable, for it to have become counterproductive. In which case, one would expect Labour to struggle. It is pretty much the be all and end all of their campaign.

    Indeed, if I'm wrong and the defecting Labour Leavers aren't coming home, it may be that most of the Labour upswing in the VI numbers during the course of the campaign has been courtesy of Southern Remain voters, whilst their position has been static or in reverse in the Midlands and Northern marginals (which would also be consistent with some previous suggestions that the Tories may be on course to achieve outsized swings in those same areas.)

    If so then the efficiency of Labour's vote could reduce drastically. There aren't that many Con-Lab marginals in play in the South, but there are dozens of potentially vulnerable Labour Leave seats in the North and West Midlands and Northern England.

    Taking into account improved Liberal Democrat performances in the South, which could net them a lot of respectable second places but very few actual gains, and the story of the election could turn out to be the Southern Tories almost all surviving but with reduced majorities, whilst the Midlands and Northern Tories make big advances. Not long to wait until we find out.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,331
    IanB2 said:

    I imagine that everyone's already seen this, but anyway...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1202249094862983170

    Johnson's ratings down only a touch, Corbyn flatlining. Johnson 24 points ahead of Corbyn (and the Tories also 22 points ahead of Labour on "best campaign" question.)

    Perhaps the Conservatives are winning the campaign this time? Seven days remaining for Labour to turn things around.

    Basically Jezza is exactly where he started the campaign.

    I am really struggling to get my head around the Tories winning the campaign by such a margin....I wouldn't vote Corbyn if he was the only choice on the ballot, but I think they have had a better campaign than the Tories (even if the policies are a combination of ridiculously expensive, self defeating and / or unworkable).
    This campaign has at least killed the crap spun here by certain PB regulars that Bozo is somehow an Ace campaigner. In reality he is hiding behind the sofa and counting the days to next Thursday, while his party is barely fighting a campaign at all.
    as long as Corbyn loses and cannot form any sort of Govt, that's the best outcome,.
  • Options
    saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    IanB2 said:

    I imagine that everyone's already seen this, but anyway...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1202249094862983170

    Johnson's ratings down only a touch, Corbyn flatlining. Johnson 24 points ahead of Corbyn (and the Tories also 22 points ahead of Labour on "best campaign" question.)

    Perhaps the Conservatives are winning the campaign this time? Seven days remaining for Labour to turn things around.

    Basically Jezza is exactly where he started the campaign.

    I am really struggling to get my head around the Tories winning the campaign by such a margin....I wouldn't vote Corbyn if he was the only choice on the ballot, but I think they have had a better campaign than the Tories (even if the policies are a combination of ridiculously expensive, self defeating and / or unworkable).
    This campaign has at least killed the crap spun here by certain PB regulars that Bozo is somehow an Ace campaigner. In reality he is hiding behind the sofa and counting the days to next Thursday, while his party is barely fighting a campaign at all.
    How much of a lead would they have if they did have a fighting campaign? Labour are laughably bad. Trying to buy votes with the grandkids future not as popular as they thought. They've offered every bribe but a case of Stella and are still trailing.
  • Options

    IanB2 said:

    I imagine that everyone's already seen this, but anyway...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1202249094862983170

    Johnson's ratings down only a touch, Corbyn flatlining. Johnson 24 points ahead of Corbyn (and the Tories also 22 points ahead of Labour on "best campaign" question.)

    Perhaps the Conservatives are winning the campaign this time? Seven days remaining for Labour to turn things around.

    Basically Jezza is exactly where he started the campaign.

    I am really struggling to get my head around the Tories winning the campaign by such a margin....I wouldn't vote Corbyn if he was the only choice on the ballot, but I think they have had a better campaign than the Tories (even if the policies are a combination of ridiculously expensive, self defeating and / or unworkable).
    This campaign has at least killed the crap spun here by certain PB regulars that Bozo is somehow an Ace campaigner. In reality he is hiding behind the sofa and counting the days to next Thursday, while his party is barely fighting a campaign at all.
    as long as Corbyn loses and cannot form any sort of Govt, that's the best outcome,.
    Corbyn's out and out lie about watching Queeny on Christmas Day morning won't help close the gap with Boris
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,286
    What is MORI up to?

    Last MORI voting intention was 15-19 Nov.

    But they then issued leader data for 22-25 Nov but no voting intention?

    Now we have leader data for 29 Nov-2 Dec. Will we get voting intention this time?
  • Options
    IanB2 said:

    I imagine that everyone's already seen this, but anyway...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1202249094862983170

    Johnson's ratings down only a touch, Corbyn flatlining. Johnson 24 points ahead of Corbyn (and the Tories also 22 points ahead of Labour on "best campaign" question.)

    Perhaps the Conservatives are winning the campaign this time? Seven days remaining for Labour to turn things around.

    Basically Jezza is exactly where he started the campaign.

    I am really struggling to get my head around the Tories winning the campaign by such a margin....I wouldn't vote Corbyn if he was the only choice on the ballot, but I think they have had a better campaign than the Tories (even if the policies are a combination of ridiculously expensive, self defeating and / or unworkable).
    This campaign has at least killed the crap spun here by certain PB regulars that Bozo is somehow an Ace campaigner. In reality he is hiding behind the sofa and counting the days to next Thursday, while his party is barely fighting a campaign at all.
    He is a smart campaigner. He agreed to the very first debate with Corbyn and took Corbyn on head to head immediately thus neutering any charges of hiding for the rest of the country that don't want to watch 17 gazillion debates.
  • Options



    I imagine that everyone's already seen this, but anyway...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1202249094862983170

    Johnson's ratings down only a touch, Corbyn flatlining. Johnson 24 points ahead of Corbyn (and the Tories also 22 points ahead of Labour on "best campaign" question.)

    Perhaps the Conservatives are winning the campaign this time? Seven days remaining for Labour to turn things around.

    Odd phrasing. Johnson's ratings are the same as last week and Corbyn's gone down a touch - if that were even possible!
    Leader net favorability, historically a good predictor, suggests a Tory lead of 8-9pp in terms of vote share, rather than the 16pp in the latest Mori poll.
    The favourability then (i.e. when the poll said a 16 point lead) was -9 to -38, what sort of lead does that suggest?
    I no longer have the spreadsheet in front of me, sorry. But probably something like 11pp off the top of my head. Mori's net leader favorability is a much better predictor than their headline poll numbers. Net favorability for Johnson-Corbyn is much less advantageous for the Tories than for Thatcher-Foot, but their headline poll numbers suggest a 1983 style lead. Leader favorability isn't in landslide territory this time around because (a) Corbyn has improved over the campaign and (b) people don't like Johnson either.

    Cheers, makes sense.
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    Unlike my nested quotes >:(
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    melcfmelcf Posts: 166
    Bet 365 :
    Over and under seats for labour has slowly crept up, from baseline of 200 a few weeks ago, to be at 219 today
    Whilst the tories have slipped, from 350 to 340
    Lib Dems have been hammered

    Are we like in 2017? Something brewing out there, which we ignore?
    At this time, in 2017 it was talk of 400 tories seat. This time it's more of a small majority due to a collapse of Labour's Northern wall. This is after 9 years of austerity, cuts to the bone, specially in the North who rely on public services and spending.
    So on polling day, you expect many of them to wave the flag and vote for Boris, as a thank you for shafting me for 9 years?? Something does not add up. My gut feeling is, up North, Labour may lose 10-20 seats at the max. Many will end up voting Brexit Party, just to spite everyone.
    Would be happy to be proved wrong. Besides Brexit, Boris and Corbyn there are local leaders, many of whom have a personal vote or connection with the people. Which can easily bypass any national trends. As proven by Chris Matheson from Chester.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924

    Maybe Raab is drawing all the heavy fire away from other more promising seats, like Guildford.

    I think Raab will hang on in Esher, although I'm not sure that will be good for the government. While he was a great campaigner for Leave, I'm not convinced he's any more than adequate as Foreign Secretary.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited December 2019


    The favourability then (i.e. when the poll said a 16 point lead) was -9 to -38, what sort of lead does that suggest?

    I no longer have the spreadsheet in front of me, sorry. But probably something like 11pp off the top of my head. Mori's net leader favorability is a much better predictor than their headline poll numbers. Net favorability for Johnson-Corbyn is much less advantageous for the Tories than for Thatcher-Foot, but their headline poll numbers suggest a 1983 style lead. Leader favorability isn't in landslide territory this time around because (a) Corbyn has improved over the campaign and (b) people don't like Johnson either.
    Corbyn's gone from -39 at the start of the campaign to -38 now. That's hardly a rounding error let alone improving!
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,226

    IanB2 said:

    I imagine that everyone's already seen this, but anyway...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1202249094862983170

    Johnson's ratings down only a touch, Corbyn flatlining. Johnson 24 points ahead of Corbyn (and the Tories also 22 points ahead of Labour on "best campaign" question.)

    Perhaps the Conservatives are winning the campaign this time? Seven days remaining for Labour to turn things around.

    Basically Jezza is exactly where he started the campaign.

    I am really struggling to get my head around the Tories winning the campaign by such a margin....I wouldn't vote Corbyn if he was the only choice on the ballot, but I think they have had a better campaign than the Tories (even if the policies are a combination of ridiculously expensive, self defeating and / or unworkable).
    This campaign has at least killed the crap spun here by certain PB regulars that Bozo is somehow an Ace campaigner. In reality he is hiding behind the sofa and counting the days to next Thursday, while his party is barely fighting a campaign at all.
    He is a smart campaigner. He agreed to the very first debate with Corbyn and took Corbyn on head to head immediately thus neutering any charges of hiding for the rest of the country that don't want to watch 17 gazillion debates.
    That’s just partisan BS.

    If he were any good, he’d do the Neil interview confident that he could come away with at worst a draw, point to the comparison with Corbyn, and coast to victory on the 12th.

    In reality he is acting like a frightened child and from his hiding place praying that he will win by default.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924

    Just to get everybody in the mood...BBC Exit polls 1992-2017..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myntJD4EXaQ

    Did they really forecast the LDs would gain only two seats? They completely missed massive levels of tactical voting.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,251
    edited December 2019
    eek said:

    I just don't see Raab following the Portillo / Balls post politics career path.

    I'm not sure Raab is famous enough for people to care. Portillo in particular was all over the media back in the day and Balls was at least well-known. I'm not sure the voter on the Clapham omnibus could pick out Raab in a police line-up.
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    Jonathan said:

    Raab C Brexit would be a sad loss. A truly great man, one of the few titans left in British politics. And yet so modest.

    Ok, I'll be honest.

    I laughed.
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,214
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    I imagine that everyone's already seen this, but anyway...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1202249094862983170

    Johnson's ratings down only a touch, Corbyn flatlining. Johnson 24 points ahead of Corbyn (and the Tories also 22 points ahead of Labour on "best campaign" question.)

    Perhaps the Conservatives are winning the campaign this time? Seven days remaining for Labour to turn things around.

    Basically Jezza is exactly where he started the campaign.

    I am really struggling to get my head around the Tories winning the campaign by such a margin....I wouldn't vote Corbyn if he was the only choice on the ballot, but I think they have had a better campaign than the Tories (even if the policies are a combination of ridiculously expensive, self defeating and / or unworkable).
    This campaign has at least killed the crap spun here by certain PB regulars that Bozo is somehow an Ace campaigner. In reality he is hiding behind the sofa and counting the days to next Thursday, while his party is barely fighting a campaign at all.
    He is a smart campaigner. He agreed to the very first debate with Corbyn and took Corbyn on head to head immediately thus neutering any charges of hiding for the rest of the country that don't want to watch 17 gazillion debates.
    That’s just partisan BS.

    If he were any good, he’d do the Neil interview confident that he could come away with at worst a draw, point to the comparison with Corbyn, and coast to victory on the 12th.

    In reality he is acting like a frightened child and from his hiding place praying that he will win by default.
    And your thoughts on Ms Swinson's performance? And the LibDem press chief engaged in forgery? We're all ears. Please avoid partisan BS if at all possible.
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    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    MikeL said:

    What is MORI up to?

    Last MORI voting intention was 15-19 Nov.

    But they then issued leader data for 22-25 Nov but no voting intention?

    Now we have leader data for 29 Nov-2 Dec. Will we get voting intention this time?


    Yeah, it's a little confusing which belongs to which poll. I'm seeing different figures reported for the same time period, presumably by journos similarly confused.
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    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,331


    The favourability then (i.e. when the poll said a 16 point lead) was -9 to -38, what sort of lead does that suggest?

    I no longer have the spreadsheet in front of me, sorry. But probably something like 11pp off the top of my head. Mori's net leader favorability is a much better predictor than their headline poll numbers. Net favorability for Johnson-Corbyn is much less advantageous for the Tories than for Thatcher-Foot, but their headline poll numbers suggest a 1983 style lead. Leader favorability isn't in landslide territory this time around because (a) Corbyn has improved over the campaign and (b) people don't like Johnson either.
    Corbyn's gone from -39 at the start of the campaign to -38 now. That's hardly a rounding error let alone improving!
    That's because its partisan bullshit. it works both ways.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957

    eek said:

    I just don't see Raab following the Portillo / Balls post politics career path.

    I'm not sure Raab is famous enough for people to care. Portillo in particular was all over the media back in the day and Balls was at least well-known. I'm not sure the voter on the Clapham omnibus could pick out Raab in a police line-up.
    Skinner is the more likely big name casualty anyway, followed by Swinson
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    A week out in 2017 and you had stuff like this happening

    https://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/general-election-2017-thousands-turn-13118964

    I've not seen anything like that this time around
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,286
    BBC1 6pm News headlines:

    1) NATO / Trump
    2) Racism in football
    3) Bob Willis
    4) We'll look at GE through eyes of poor people in Grimsby

    For several days GE seems to have dropped way down news pecking order.
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    saddened said:

    IanB2 said:

    I imagine that everyone's already seen this, but anyway...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1202249094862983170

    Johnson's ratings down only a touch, Corbyn flatlining. Johnson 24 points ahead of Corbyn (and the Tories also 22 points ahead of Labour on "best campaign" question.)

    Perhaps the Conservatives are winning the campaign this time? Seven days remaining for Labour to turn things around.

    Basically Jezza is exactly where he started the campaign.

    I am really struggling to get my head around the Tories winning the campaign by such a margin....I wouldn't vote Corbyn if he was the only choice on the ballot, but I think they have had a better campaign than the Tories (even if the policies are a combination of ridiculously expensive, self defeating and / or unworkable).
    This campaign has at least killed the crap spun here by certain PB regulars that Bozo is somehow an Ace campaigner. In reality he is hiding behind the sofa and counting the days to next Thursday, while his party is barely fighting a campaign at all.
    How much of a lead would they have if they did have a fighting campaign? Labour are laughably bad. Trying to buy votes with the grandkids future not as popular as they thought. They've offered every bribe but a case of Stella and are still trailing.
    I have read or inferred the following about the campaign, which may or may not be true:

    1. The Tories are already miles ahead amongst the over 40s, so there's little value in their throwing their effort into things like TV debates and radio interviews, which are predominantly listened to by the middle-aged and elderly. It also explains the avoidance of Andrew Neil - the Tories are far less concerned about Boris Johnson failing to turn up to be interviewed before an audience he already has in the bag anyway, and far more concerned about providing extra material for Labour viral video clips
    2. Their primary effort is therefore focussed on social media, where they are testing all sorts of messages (hence the minor news stories about videos where the BBC have objected to being quoted out-of-context and such like,) prior to a gigantic advertising blitz in the final week of the campaign. Hit the younger voters over and over with well-targeted messages to try to sway a crucial few percent of the Labour vote in their direction, and convert a small majority into a large one
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    StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    I presume OGH's letters are like confetti in the post boxes of the poor voters of Esher...

    As I have made clear these mailings were NOT approved by me.
    I thought you said you approved them without bothering to check which constituencies they'd be sent to?
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,214
    And both the candidate and the founder of Advance Together (sic) both have strong LibDem links. Astonishing, isn't it.
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    rcs1000 said:

    Just to get everybody in the mood...BBC Exit polls 1992-2017..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myntJD4EXaQ

    Did they really forecast the LDs would gain only two seats? They completely missed massive levels of tactical voting.
    Do you mean 1997? No they forecast LDs getting 18% not 18 seats.

    Incidentally does anyone know anywhere a way of downloading the results (by party) of each seat in 1997? I can't find a chart of that anywhere.
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    A week out in 2017 and you had stuff like this happening

    https://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/general-election-2017-thousands-turn-13118964

    I've not seen anything like that this time around

    Well, Corbyn is no longer the exciting new thing, is he?
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    rcs1000 said:

    Maybe Raab is drawing all the heavy fire away from other more promising seats, like Guildford.

    I think Raab will hang on in Esher, although I'm not sure that will be good for the government. While he was a great campaigner for Leave, I'm not convinced he's any more than adequate as Foreign Secretary.
    rcs1000 said:

    Maybe Raab is drawing all the heavy fire away from other more promising seats, like Guildford.

    I think Raab will hang on in Esher, although I'm not sure that will be good for the government. While he was a great campaigner for Leave, I'm not convinced he's any more than adequate as Foreign Secretary.
    rcs1000 said:

    Maybe Raab is drawing all the heavy fire away from other more promising seats, like Guildford.

    I think Raab will hang on in Esher, although I'm not sure that will be good for the government. While he was a great campaigner for Leave, I'm not convinced he's any more than adequate as Foreign Secretary.
    He might be reshuffled very quickly. His current cabinet was about winning the Tory leadership and the election campaign.

    Boris is someone who thinks loyalty only works one way so if he wins big (huge if) I expect a significant one.
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    JohnO said:

    And both the candidate and the founder of Advance Together (sic) both have strong LibDem links. Astonishing, isn't it.
    The Electoral Commission and the Police really should look into this if this has been done to double the per-seat campaign spend in these seats.
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    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    I imagine that everyone's already seen this, but anyway...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1202249094862983170

    Johnson's ratings down only a touch, Corbyn flatlining. Johnson 24 points ahead of Corbyn (and the Tories also 22 points ahead of Labour on "best campaign" question.)

    Perhaps the Conservatives are winning the campaign this time? Seven days remaining for Labour to turn things around.

    Basically Jezza is exactly where he started the campaign.

    I am really struggling to get my head around the Tories winning the campaign by such a margin....I wouldn't vote Corbyn if he was the only choice on the ballot, but I think they have had a better campaign than the Tories (even if the policies are a combination of ridiculously expensive, self defeating and / or unworkable).
    This campaign has at least killed the crap spun here by certain PB regulars that Bozo is somehow an Ace campaigner. In reality he is hiding behind the sofa and counting the days to next Thursday, while his party is barely fighting a campaign at all.
    He is a smart campaigner. He agreed to the very first debate with Corbyn and took Corbyn on head to head immediately thus neutering any charges of hiding for the rest of the country that don't want to watch 17 gazillion debates.
    That’s just partisan BS.

    If he were any good, he’d do the Neil interview confident that he could come away with at worst a draw, point to the comparison with Corbyn, and coast to victory on the 12th.

    In reality he is acting like a frightened child and from his hiding place praying that he will win by default.
    Where have you been. Boris has had wall to wall media coverage over the last few days and debates with Corbyn live on BBC on Friday evening

    Yes he has ducked Neil so far but do you think any of the voters even care. It would be different if he was hiding which he isn't
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    rcs1000 said:

    Maybe Raab is drawing all the heavy fire away from other more promising seats, like Guildford.

    I think Raab will hang on in Esher, although I'm not sure that will be good for the government. While he was a great campaigner for Leave, I'm not convinced he's any more than adequate as Foreign Secretary.
    rcs1000 said:

    Maybe Raab is drawing all the heavy fire away from other more promising seats, like Guildford.

    I think Raab will hang on in Esher, although I'm not sure that will be good for the government. While he was a great campaigner for Leave, I'm not convinced he's any more than adequate as Foreign Secretary.
    rcs1000 said:

    Maybe Raab is drawing all the heavy fire away from other more promising seats, like Guildford.

    I think Raab will hang on in Esher, although I'm not sure that will be good for the government. While he was a great campaigner for Leave, I'm not convinced he's any more than adequate as Foreign Secretary.
    He might be reshuffled very quickly. His current cabinet was about winning the Tory leadership and the election campaign.

    Boris is someone who thinks loyalty only works one way so if he wins big (huge if) I expect a significant one.
    Ironically a huge Tory win could be doubly-good for the sanity of both parties.

    In Labour it would force Labour to look into its soul and realise what has gone wrong.
    In the Conservatives it would permit the PM to have some breathing space and not permit the ERG or other extreme wings to be able to veto policies.
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    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,331
    edited December 2019
    MikeL said:

    BBC1 6pm News headlines:

    1) NATO / Trump
    2) Racism in football
    3) Bob Willis
    4) We'll look at GE through eyes of poor people in Grimsby

    For several days GE seems to have dropped way down news pecking order.

    Perhaps the BBC think Boris will win, no mileage in if they do. They can have as many unbiased "balanced" focus interviews in as many constituencies as they like, it does not beat word of mouth of people talking to each other. I just hear Corbyn is a "xxxx"(three consonants and a vowel)
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    melcf said:

    Bet 365 :
    Over and under seats for labour has slowly crept up, from baseline of 200 a few weeks ago, to be at 219 today
    Whilst the tories have slipped, from 350 to 340
    Lib Dems have been hammered

    Are we like in 2017? Something brewing out there, which we ignore?
    At this time, in 2017 it was talk of 400 tories seat. This time it's more of a small majority due to a collapse of Labour's Northern wall. This is after 9 years of austerity, cuts to the bone, specially in the North who rely on public services and spending.
    So on polling day, you expect many of them to wave the flag and vote for Boris, as a thank you for shafting me for 9 years?? Something does not add up. My gut feeling is, up North, Labour may lose 10-20 seats at the max. Many will end up voting Brexit Party, just to spite everyone.
    Would be happy to be proved wrong. Besides Brexit, Boris and Corbyn there are local leaders, many of whom have a personal vote or connection with the people. Which can easily bypass any national trends. As proven by Chris Matheson from Chester.

    What the Labour Leavers end up doing is going to be the axis around which the election revolves. And we simply don't know. If they're holding firm then the night could be very bad for Labour. If they splinter then the Tories could still win with a small majority. If they head home en masse it's another Hung Parliament.

    The signs continue to look cautiously encouraging for the Tories, but we obviously shan't know until the votes are counted.
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    A week out in 2017 and you had stuff like this happening

    https://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/general-election-2017-thousands-turn-13118964

    I've not seen anything like that this time around

    Well, Corbyn is no longer the exciting new thing, is he?
    Also it is really cold and it is dark in the evenings.
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    @Philip_Thompson

    Yes, that’s my view.
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    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,922
    The mori figures are devastating for labour. I think personally the polls are grisdly overestimating labour support and a 75plus majority is very likely
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,365
    Bob Willis - if you have 21 minutes to spare this evening, this is worth watching:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtPw_Ztlm_Q

    I always like watching a sportsman celebrate by basically looking quite cross. No-one ever beat Bob Willis at that.

    Also interesting how quiet cricket was in those days!
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    malcolmg said:

    Stocky said:

    I enjoy your posts - they focus on the betting.
    How many total SNP seats do you reckon?

    Low 40s.

    If pushed for an exact figure: 41.

    (If I’m miles out, in my defence, there are a hell of a lot of marginals.)
    I reckon trying to pick the Scottish seats is the trickiest aspect of this election by miles. Tories could be anywhere from 3 to 16.
    Tories could be anywhere from 4 to 20.
    Would you like a wager they are nowhere near 20
    I don’t think they’ll be anywhere near 20. It would mean them winning seats like Argyll and Bute, Central Ayrshire, East Lothian, Edinburgh North and Leith, Edinburgh South West, Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey, Lanark and Hamilton East, Linlithgow and East Falkirk, Midlothian, North Ayrshire and Arran or Paisley and North Renfrewshire.

    Those are all profoundly unlikely. But just imagine if:

    - SNP supporters fail to turn out
    - the SLD vote utterly collapses and goes straight to SCon
    - SLab vote halves, with most going straight to SCon
    - The SCons have wonderful differential turnout
    - Yes voters vote Green where there is a Green PPC

    Any of those things are feasible. In a nightmare scenario, all could happen.

    20 is their absolute dream upper limit. I’m not saying that that is what I expect to happen.
    I think James Kanga’ is on record as once saying to Ruth Davidson in a psephological presentation, “one day, you’ll win 20 seats.”

    She said; “no way.”
    She was right. She never will.
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,115
    edited December 2019
    MikeL said:

    BBC1 6pm News headlines:

    1) NATO / Trump
    2) Racism in football
    3) Bob Willis
    4) We'll look at GE through eyes of poor people in Grimsby

    For several days GE seems to have dropped way down news pecking order.

    It's been the same on the Guardian website. There's not really much happening. Johnson looks likely to do what May couldn't. Ah well.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    rcs1000 said:

    Maybe Raab is drawing all the heavy fire away from other more promising seats, like Guildford.

    I think Raab will hang on in Esher, although I'm not sure that will be good for the government. While he was a great campaigner for Leave, I'm not convinced he's any more than adequate as Foreign Secretary.
    rcs1000 said:

    Maybe Raab is drawing all the heavy fire away from other more promising seats, like Guildford.

    I think Raab will hang on in Esher, although I'm not sure that will be good for the government. While he was a great campaigner for Leave, I'm not convinced he's any more than adequate as Foreign Secretary.
    rcs1000 said:

    Maybe Raab is drawing all the heavy fire away from other more promising seats, like Guildford.

    I think Raab will hang on in Esher, although I'm not sure that will be good for the government. While he was a great campaigner for Leave, I'm not convinced he's any more than adequate as Foreign Secretary.
    He might be reshuffled very quickly. His current cabinet was about winning the Tory leadership and the election campaign.

    Boris is someone who thinks loyalty only works one way so if he wins big (huge if) I expect a significant one.
    Ironically a huge Tory win could be doubly-good for the sanity of both parties.

    In Labour it would force Labour to look into its soul and realise what has gone wrong.
    In the Conservatives it would permit the PM to have some breathing space and not permit the ERG or other extreme wings to be able to veto policies.
    Boris sacked the Tory one Nation wing and conspired with ERG to unseat May and win No10. Chips will be cashed. Your going to be disappointed.
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,715
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    I just don't see Raab following the Portillo / Balls post politics career path.

    I'm not sure Raab is famous enough for people to care. Portillo in particular was all over the media back in the day and Balls was at least well-known. I'm not sure the voter on the Clapham omnibus could pick out Raab in a police line-up.
    Skinner is the more likely big name casualty anyway, followed by Swinson
    You think Swinson more likely to be ousted than Raab?
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,793
    MikeL said:

    What is MORI up to?

    Last MORI voting intention was 15-19 Nov.

    But they then issued leader data for 22-25 Nov but no voting intention?

    Now we have leader data for 29 Nov-2 Dec. Will we get voting intention this time?

    MORI Voting Intentions are usually reported on Thursday for Evening Standard so maybe tomorrow?
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    alb1onalb1on Posts: 698
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    I just don't see Raab following the Portillo / Balls post politics career path.

    I'm not sure Raab is famous enough for people to care. Portillo in particular was all over the media back in the day and Balls was at least well-known. I'm not sure the voter on the Clapham omnibus could pick out Raab in a police line-up.
    Skinner is the more likely big name casualty anyway, followed by Swinson
    I have always admired optimism, but there comes a point when it becomes a substitute for sanity. If you really believe that rather than just playing the political game you can get 11/4 for the SNP beating Swinson. Skinner is not a big name to the public.
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    Labour's great hope, Trump, would dish Boris's campaign has failed to materalise with the headline being Trump falls out with Trudeau, cancels news conference, and flies home

    While Boris gets to look all Prime Ministerial with his closing speech and delivers a withering PPB at the end on Corbyn
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    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,069
    edited December 2019


    The favourability then (i.e. when the poll said a 16 point lead) was -9 to -38, what sort of lead does that suggest?

    I no longer have the spreadsheet in front of me, sorry. But probably something like 11pp off the top of my head. Mori's net leader favorability is a much better predictor than their headline poll numbers. Net favorability for Johnson-Corbyn is much less advantageous for the Tories than for Thatcher-Foot, but their headline poll numbers suggest a 1983 style lead. Leader favorability isn't in landslide territory this time around because (a) Corbyn has improved over the campaign and (b) people don't like Johnson either.
    Corbyn's gone from -39 at the start of the campaign to -38 now. That's hardly a rounding error let alone improving!
    That's because its partisan bullshit. it works both ways.
    Corbyn was -60 at the end of October (having problems pasting the link on my phone, but do a Google search for the Mori political monitor). I am not trying to be partisan, I am trying to predict the result. I am a Labour supporter but any analysis as opposed to opinions/bantz is meant to be unbiased. I actually looked at the net favorability issue expecting to find it pointing to bigger leads, not leads in line with the polling average and with betting markets. Feel free to ignore it if you think it's bullshit.
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,115
    @Jonathan - that's my view. Johnson has made his choice. After forcing several ex-Cabinet ministers out of the Parliamentary Party for not following the ERG line it's not credible to think that he can change tack now.
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    A week out in 2017 and you had stuff like this happening

    https://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/general-election-2017-thousands-turn-13118964

    I've not seen anything like that this time around

    Well, Corbyn is no longer the exciting new thing, is he?
    Also it is really cold and it is dark in the evenings.
    It doesn't stop people going to Christmas markets etc....

    I have a feeling we won't be seeing a JezFest again anytime soon.
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    EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Endillion said:



    Anyone serious about animal welfare would be advocating the banning of halal & kosher slaughter.

    In a country in which you can boil lobsters alive, and call it a delicacy when you're done? Really?

    To say nothing of dogs bred specifically for Cruft's, some of whom are inbred to the point that they struggle with breathing.

    Also note that we were in the EU for three decades and no-one seemed all that concerned about Spanish and Portuguese bullfighting during that time.

    Very selective, people's ideas about what does and does not constitute animal cruelty...
    Can slitting a live animal's throat & letting it bleed to death, be anything other than the worse sort of cruelty?

    The sheer industrial scale of this cruelty makes the examples you have given pale into insignificance.
    FPT: the principle is that, by severing the blood supply to the brain with a sharp knife, the animal loses consciousness instantly and therefore feels as little pain as possible. The processes are designed specifically to minimise suffering.
    Recent studies have cast doubt on the extent to which the animal retains consciousness after slaughter, but the studies are inconclusive (and there's probably a lot of bias involved). However, there's also a lot of evidence around the effectiveness of pre-stunning; in particular around whether the failure rates are really as low as typically reported by the industry. It's very clear that a failed stunning (particularly percussive stunning) results in a huge amount of pain for the animal.
    To reiterate, these are value systems thousands of years old that were actively seeking to minimise suffering to animals. There's a genuine debate in Judaism as to whether battery-farmed chickens can be considered kosher at all, such are the standards in which farms keep the birds.
    So yeah, there are worse things. I think it's really hard to be legitimately against ritual slaughter without also being against a sizeable proportion of modern farming practices, to say nothing of how we treat animals in wider society.
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    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391

    JohnO said:

    And both the candidate and the founder of Advance Together (sic) both have strong LibDem links. Astonishing, isn't it.
    The Electoral Commission and the Police really should look into this if this has been done to double the per-seat campaign spend in these seats.
    I'm sure the electoral commission will come down on it like a ton of cotton wool.
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    MikeL said:

    What is MORI up to?

    Last MORI voting intention was 15-19 Nov.

    But they then issued leader data for 22-25 Nov but no voting intention?

    Now we have leader data for 29 Nov-2 Dec. Will we get voting intention this time?

    Good question, I completed a Mori last Friday.
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    Jonathan said:



    Ironically a huge Tory win could be doubly-good for the sanity of both parties.

    In Labour it would force Labour to look into its soul and realise what has gone wrong.
    In the Conservatives it would permit the PM to have some breathing space and not permit the ERG or other extreme wings to be able to veto policies.

    Boris sacked the Tory one Nation wing and conspired with ERG to unseat May and win No10. Chips will be cashed. Your going to be disappointed.
    No he didn't. He sacked extreme Europhile rebels. That has nothing to do with One Nation.

    What makes you define One Nation as Phil Hammond?
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    Stocky said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    I just don't see Raab following the Portillo / Balls post politics career path.

    I'm not sure Raab is famous enough for people to care. Portillo in particular was all over the media back in the day and Balls was at least well-known. I'm not sure the voter on the Clapham omnibus could pick out Raab in a police line-up.
    Skinner is the more likely big name casualty anyway, followed by Swinson
    You think Swinson more likely to be ousted than Raab?
    Yes.
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    The favourability then (i.e. when the poll said a 16 point lead) was -9 to -38, what sort of lead does that suggest?

    I no longer have the spreadsheet in front of me, sorry. But probably something like 11pp off the top of my head. Mori's net leader favorability is a much better predictor than their headline poll numbers. Net favorability for Johnson-Corbyn is much less advantageous for the Tories than for Thatcher-Foot, but their headline poll numbers suggest a 1983 style lead. Leader favorability isn't in landslide territory this time around because (a) Corbyn has improved over the campaign and (b) people don't like Johnson either.
    Corbyn's gone from -39 at the start of the campaign to -38 now. That's hardly a rounding error let alone improving!
    That's because its partisan bullshit. it works both ways.
    Corbyn was -60 at the end of October (. I am not trying to be partisan, I am trying to predict the result. I am a Labour supporter but any analysis as opposed to opinions/bantz is meant to be unbiased. I actually looked at the net favorability issue expecting to find it pointing to bigger leads, not leads in line with the polling average and with betting markets. Feel free to ignore it if you think it's bullshit.
    Are you sure that is the same polling company.
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    alb1onalb1on Posts: 698

    JohnO said:

    And both the candidate and the founder of Advance Together (sic) both have strong LibDem links. Astonishing, isn't it.
    The Electoral Commission and the Police really should look into this if this has been done to double the per-seat campaign spend in these seats.
    Good luck with that. A political party registered for 2 years, which stood in local elections and which has candidates in seats where the LDs are plainly not going to win (Hitchin and Harpenden, Mid Sussex). At least if the LDs are behind it (which is unlikely) they have done a much better job of disguising it than when the Tories put up a Literal Democrat. The voters dislike whingers.
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    rcs1000 said:

    Maybe Raab is drawing all the heavy fire away from other more promising seats, like Guildford.

    I think Raab will hang on in Esher, although I'm not sure that will be good for the government. While he was a great campaigner for Leave, I'm not convinced he's any more than adequate as Foreign Secretary.
    rcs1000 said:

    Maybe Raab is drawing all the heavy fire away from other more promising seats, like Guildford.

    I think Raab will hang on in Esher, although I'm not sure that will be good for the government. While he was a great campaigner for Leave, I'm not convinced he's any more than adequate as Foreign Secretary.
    rcs1000 said:

    Maybe Raab is drawing all the heavy fire away from other more promising seats, like Guildford.

    I think Raab will hang on in Esher, although I'm not sure that will be good for the government. While he was a great campaigner for Leave, I'm not convinced he's any more than adequate as Foreign Secretary.
    He might be reshuffled very quickly. His current cabinet was about winning the Tory leadership and the election campaign.

    Boris is someone who thinks loyalty only works one way so if he wins big (huge if) I expect a significant one.
    Ironically a huge Tory win could be doubly-good for the sanity of both parties.

    In Labour it would force Labour to look into its soul and realise what has gone wrong.
    In the Conservatives it would permit the PM to have some breathing space and not permit the ERG or other extreme wings to be able to veto policies.
    The current Labour membership is more interested in grievance politics and protesting than governing and running the country
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    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    I imagine that everyone's already seen this, but anyway...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1202249094862983170

    Johnson's ratings down only a touch, Corbyn flatlining. Johnson 24 points ahead of Corbyn (and the Tories also 22 points ahead of Labour on "best campaign" question.)

    Perhaps the Conservatives are winning the campaign this time? Seven days remaining for Labour to turn things around.

    Basically Jezza is exactly where he started the campaign.

    I am really struggling to get my head around the Tories winning the campaign by such a margin....I wouldn't vote Corbyn if he was the only choice on the ballot, but I think they have had a better campaign than the Tories (even if the policies are a combination of ridiculously expensive, self defeating and / or unworkable).
    This campaign has at least killed the crap spun here by certain PB regulars that Bozo is somehow an Ace campaigner. In reality he is hiding behind the sofa and counting the days to next Thursday, while his party is barely fighting a campaign at all.
    He is a smart campaigner. He agreed to the very first debate with Corbyn and took Corbyn on head to head immediately thus neutering any charges of hiding for the rest of the country that don't want to watch 17 gazillion debates.
    That’s just partisan BS.

    If he were any good, he’d do the Neil interview confident that he could come away with at worst a draw, point to the comparison with Corbyn, and coast to victory on the 12th.

    In reality he is acting like a frightened child and from his hiding place praying that he will win by default.
    Where have you been. Boris has had wall to wall media coverage over the last few days and debates with Corbyn live on BBC on Friday evening

    Yes he has ducked Neil so far but do you think any of the voters even care. It would be different if he was hiding which he isn't
    I am a voter. I care.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    @Jonathan - that's my view. Johnson has made his choice. After forcing several ex-Cabinet ministers out of the Parliamentary Party for not following the ERG line it's not credible to think that he can change tack now.

    His ideological purge was brutal. People somehow overlook it. There is a denial cult forming around Boris just as potent as the Corbyn cult. Like a soap opera battered spouse, they know Boris is a bad news but hope he will come good one day despite the black eye.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957
    edited December 2019
    Hugh Grant in South Woodford tonight campaigning for Labour to try and oust IDS, will be tight in Chingford and Woodford Green

    https://twitter.com/_KimButterworth/status/1202288766578286593?s=20
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