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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Today’s ComRes local elections poll is based on 56pc saying

SystemSystem Posts: 11,007
edited May 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Today’s ComRes local elections poll is based on 56pc saying they are certain to vote with a MALE:FEMALE ratio of 6:4

On a night of many polls perhaps the most interesting and relevant to tomorrow’s local elections is the above one from ComRes online which was funded by the Coalition for Marriage – the body that’s been campaigning against the gay marriage proposals.

Read the full story here


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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited May 2013
    If differential turnout by men puts UKIP ahead of Labour in votes, and with twice the vote of the LibDems we start to be in earthquake territory. All three parties will be shaken to the foundations, and money would have to be on UKIP in first place in next years euros.

    No UKIP candidate in my area though, have now had two libdem and one Tory leaflet. Libdems get my vote, though not many others it seems.
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    Fat_SteveFat_Steve Posts: 361
    Ed Millibands problem with men is pretty clear. What causes that?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Fat_Steve said:

    Ed Millibands problem with men is pretty clear. What causes that?

    I don't think that it can be personalized to Milliband, it is Labour that is unpopular with men. It is probably because more men pay the tax bill than women.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,287
    PODCWAS.
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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019

    Fat_Steve said:

    Ed Millibands problem with men is pretty clear. What causes that?


    I don't think that it can be personalized to Milliband, it is Labour that is unpopular with men. It is probably because more men pay the tax bill than women.
    LOL get your tin hat out
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    Fat_SteveFat_Steve Posts: 361
    tim said:

    @FatSteve

    I don't think you've quite understood where the poll was done have you.
    Reaching ScottP levels of ignorance is quite an achievement.

    Thank you Tim, but I read the header and understood. Labour has a problem with men. Visible elsewhere, pronounced here.

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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Fat_Steve said:

    Ed Millibands problem with men is pretty clear. What causes that?

    Everything he says and everything he does

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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Blue_rog said:

    Fat_Steve said:

    Ed Millibands problem with men is pretty clear. What causes that?



    I don't think that it can be personalized to Milliband, it is Labour that is unpopular with men. It is probably because more men pay the tax bill than women.
    LOL get your tin hat out
    Sadly, it seems the evidence is that tinfoil hats are a reptilian conspiracy to make mind control easier:
    http://m.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/09/tin-foil-hats-actually-make-it-easier-for-the-government-to-track-your-thoughts/262998/
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    Fat_SteveFat_Steve Posts: 361
    Why do you think Labour's message is so unpersuasive to men though Tim, generally? Previously (a generation ago) Labour tended to do better with Men than Women.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,916
    Off-topic:

    Hartlepool's mayor (infamously 'H'angus the Monkey') is stepping down soon after 11 years and three election victories. The mayoralty role is being abolished.

    Considering he was a joke candidate with (afaict) little previous experience, has his tenure proved positive or negative for the people of Hartlepool? How has the fact he was unconnected with politics before becoming mayor helped or hindered him?

    And where does this leaves Labour's great mayoralty plans?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-22297425
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924

    If differential turnout by men puts UKIP ahead of Labour in votes, and with twice the vote of the LibDems we start to be in earthquake territory. All three parties will be shaken to the foundations, and money would have to be on UKIP in first place in next years euros.

    No UKIP candidate in my area though, have now had two libdem and one Tory leaflet. Libdems get my vote, though not many others it seems.


    Money in euros Fox. Really. As soon as next year!

    In continued absence of any information whatsoever, I'm still torn between LD and Lab. Wife is seriously thinking about Green.

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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @benedictbrogan: Labour to review universailty of pensioner benefits, says Harriet Harman on @BBCr4today. Big move if true, outflanks Dave

    Who knows, Child Benefit for millionaires might be next...
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576
    UKIP voters are different - today's YouGov confirms what we've seen before:

    Issues facing Britain: 'Immigration & Asylum':
    Con: 66
    Lab: 46
    Lib Dem: 41
    UKIP: 84

    Issues facing me/my family: 'Immigration & Asylum (rank)
    Con: 22 (5th)
    Lab: 12 (7th)
    LibDem: 11 (=9th)
    UKIP: 42 (=3rd)
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    These figures, if repeated tomorrow, show Labour up 11% on 2009, UKIP up 17%, Conservatives down 13%, Lib Dems down 13%.

    At the risk of stating the obvious, such an outcome would be bad news for the big three. Labour would mostly regain its losses of four years ago, but UKIP would likely steal working class divisions in Staffordshire, Kent, Norfolk, Essex, Hertfordshire that went from Lab to Con in 2009, and which Labour would expect to regain. And, the media narrative would focus on UKIP, not Labour.

    The Conservatives would be sure to lose seats to UKIP, putting more pressure on Cameron, and almost certainly leading to further defections of members to UKIP, and maybe MP's as well. UKIP's poll rating would edge closer to the Conservatives'.

    As for the Lib Dems, a complete horror story. There'd be a serious chance of finishing fourth in terms of seats, as well as votes.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576
    Farage in South Shields:

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bac05656-b1ba-11e2-b324-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz2S1G7EDuM

    “I think a lot of people are going to vote Ukip,” says Marianne Haligan, a postwoman, who steps off the bus straight into the media circus around Mr Farage. Admitting she is an undecided voter, she adds: “It’s this business of immigration. People have been worried about it for years.”
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    RobD said:

    I really like the new graphing engine!

    It is really great. Harry Hayfield has a wonderful chart for tomorrow's locals
    oh you big tease ;)
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @DPJHodges: Why, a day before important local elections, has a Labour spokesman has gone on radio and called for £20m of spendng to South Africa?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576
    Interesting that that 'Coalition for Marriage ComRes poll shows the same hit for Lib Dems on 'likely to vote' as it does for Con - though in both cases overwhelming response is 'makes no difference:

    "Does the Coalition Government's plan to legalise same-sex marriage make you more or less likely to vote for each of these parties in next week's local elections?

    More/No diff/Less likely to vote for:

    Con: 7/64/23
    Lab: 6/71/17
    Lib Dem: 4/67/23
    UKIP: 10/70/12

    So there is small a group of (older) people unhappy with gay marriage - and they're not just Tories.....
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @oflynnexpress: Harman just sacked the grey vote by pledging Lab will review universal pensioner benefits. Whoops. #Today
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    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited May 2013
    In last year's PB competition I guesstimated the most accurate forecast of LD seat changes. This year it looks like an impossible task, even a day before the election. Based on all the polling results the LDs could be in a range of -250 to +200 on a base of circa 480.

    Yet Lib Dems seem to be expecting a good set of results whereas most Conservative activists expect large losses circa 300+. Friday will be a very interesting day.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576
    On the eve of the locals, wonder which party this Sun splash will help:

    BRITAIN will be the world’s most ethnically diverse Western nation after 2050, a bombshell study has found.
    A massive influx of immigrants has given the UK the fastest-rising percentage of ethnic minority and foreign-born populations.
    The report’s author says foreigners and non-whites living here will DOUBLE by 2040 — to make up a third of the UK.
    He has even controversially claimed white Brits will be a MINORITY by 2066.

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4909876/White-Britons-minority-by-2066-claim.html#ixzz2S1LavVbz
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    I imagine most Conservative members would agree with Tebbit. Conservative attacks on UKIP over the past few days have been shrill and inept. Far better to just say nothing.

    22% would surely put UKIP in first place in some Counties.
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    timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    For those who believe that UKIP can still do well tomorrow Ladbrokes still are holding their prices on number of UKIP gains.
    The evens at Paddy power that was around yesterday morning has now moved to 1/10 for over 50 seats.
    https://sb.ladbrokes.com/Ladbrokes/mobwebapp/entryPoint.html?deepLinkCommandName=proxyDataBrowsing&locale=en_GB&id=SPORTS&isLive=false&level=Category&locale=en_GB#4
    Get on...
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited May 2013
    Good morning. We, all good PBers, seem to be on those proverbial tender-hooks as we all wait another day 'till polling start's. Then, It's Time to Roll the Dice and see if UKIP can come up with a row of sixes.

    My guess for the number of UKIP seats taken: 117±. And no, I'm not betting.
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    timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    The bit I forgot to say is that if you are not convinced that UKIP will mean more than 50 seats then Paddypower are a whopping 5/1 for under 50 seats. Not often you get an arbitrage/ opportunity like that with Ladbrokes combined above 50 at around 5/4.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Good morning, everyone.

    I've got to agree that 56% seems unlikely for locals. But if that's not the case, who'd be hit by lower turnout?

    I'd be surprised if this is the case, based on general polling and mood music, but surely the Lib Dems and Conservatives (in that order) would benefit? People saying they're certain to vote for those parties especially (rather than a convenient but shallow protest party, such as Labour) must be likelier to actually mean it.

    Incidentally, my early review of the first part of the season is up here: http://politicalbetting.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/2013-early-season-review.html
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,918
    Beltane blessings one and all. Was up with family at 3.30am and went out to Laxton Motte and Bailey castle in Nottinghamshire to watch the sunrise with beer, sausages, song and Morrismen. A fine way to greet the new month.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,918
    I have this feeling that UKIP will do well in the national vote but will under perform in seats. I am not convinced that the good showing in recent by-elections is sufficient to overcome the continuing lack of local organisation overall. So I think we might see the local factors working against rather than for the party. Still be good to beat the Lib Dems in terms of overall vote though.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    @tim

    it's ok in 2066 we'll have some Labourite telling us how the party are now going to listen more and Andy dumbass Burnham telling us he's off to learn the lessons.

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Mr. Tyndall, the company of morrismen is a fine thing at any time of the year.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Future Prime Minister Greening takes universally popular decision: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22348326
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    Mr. Tyndall, the company of morrismen is a fine thing at any time of the year.

    Sir Thomas Beecham wouldn't agree.

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Mr. Brooke, could you elaborate upon this point?
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924
    Scott_P said:

    @oflynnexpress: Harman just sacked the grey vote by pledging Lab will review universal pensioner benefits. Whoops. #Today

    As an OAP I'm not sure that's true. It's a bit like welfare benefits. A lot of people are against them except the ones they get!

    Many of my fellow bus pass users would happily (well fairly happily) pay £10 a year for their passes. Whether that would cover the admin costs, I don't know.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    edited May 2013

    Mr. Brooke, could you elaborate upon this point?

    I thought you'd be aware of the quote attributed to him

    " try everything once except incest and morris dancing"

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    King Cole, sounds similar to tax rises, whereby everyone wants higher taxes on the wealthy and lower taxes on ordinary people (where 'the wealthy' means people with more money than the individual question and 'ordinary people' means those who earn the same as the individual in question).
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    Swiss_BobSwiss_Bob Posts: 619
    22%! I guess UKIP won't do as well as many hope given their lack of concentration/heartland but it may well provide a platform for not only the EU elections but the next GE.

    Maybe a punt on 'more than five MPs'? What odds could I get?
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924

    King Cole, sounds similar to tax rises, whereby everyone wants higher taxes on the wealthy and lower taxes on ordinary people (where 'the wealthy' means people with more money than the individual question and 'ordinary people' means those who earn the same as the individual in question).

    Indeed.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Welcome back, Mr. Bob.
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    No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 3,802
    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: Why, a day before important local elections, has a Labour spokesman has gone on radio and called for £20m of spendng to South Africa?

    I was actually surprised the figure was as low as that.

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576
    Ouch!

    Today to Simon Hughes : "There are wards in Liverpool where the Lib Dems aren't standing"

    Hughes: "There aren't elections in Liverpool"
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    hucks67hucks67 Posts: 758
    Tories still have a problem with women voters. They can't rely on the votes of grumpy old men, many of whom look like turning to UKIP.
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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,288
    timmo said:

    The bit I forgot to say is that if you are not convinced that UKIP will mean more than 50 seats then Paddypower are a whopping 5/1 for under 50 seats. Not often you get an arbitrage/ opportunity like that with Ladbrokes combined above 50 at around 5/4.


    Not an arb though, is it, Timmo?

    UKIP have a number of seats already, so <50 TOTAL is very unlikely. Ladbrokes' odds are for number of gains.

    The 15/8 > 100 looks decent value to me. I appreciate that they are likely to do well without winning seats in many places, but still think 100 plus is very doable.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576
    Anthony Wells on the ComRes poll:

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/7372?utm_source=buffer&amp;utm_medium=twitter&amp;utm_campaign=Buffer:+stephentall+on+twitter&amp;buffer_share=685f3

    By my estimates it would produce getting on for 500 Conservative losses and 250 UKIP gains, if it is giving an accurate picture… and local election predictions are not something that there is much track record for. We shall see
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Cammo doesn't need to differentiate now as both Milis are toxic.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited May 2013
    I just flicked through the last thread and came across this article by Mary Riddel and this comment by TGOHF which was echoed by others.

    "With friends like Mary Riddel - does rEd need enemies ?"

    I couldn't agree less. It's hagiography at its finest and even more impressive being in the Telegraph.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/10027963/Labour-is-betting-everything-on-its-new-brand-of-pothole-politics.html
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    timmotimmo Posts: 1,469

    timmo said:

    The bit I forgot to say is that if you are not convinced that UKIP will mean more than 50 seats then Paddypower are a whopping 5/1 for under 50 seats. Not often you get an arbitrage/ opportunity like that with Ladbrokes combined above 50 at around 5/4.

    Agree it's not an are Peter.
    UKIp have 7 seats already as far as I can tell..
    So 57 the magic number...with Ladbrokes that is..

    Not an arb though, is it, Timmo?

    UKIP have a number of seats already, so <50 TOTAL is very unlikely. Ladbrokes' odds are for number of gains.

    The 15/8 > 100 looks decent value to me. I appreciate that they are likely to do well without winning seats in many places, but still think 100 plus is very doable.

    timmo said:

    The bit I forgot to say is that if you are not convinced that UKIP will mean more than 50 seats then Paddypower are a whopping 5/1 for under 50 seats. Not often you get an arbitrage/ opportunity like that with Ladbrokes combined above 50 at around 5/4.


    Not an arb though, is it, Timmo?

    UKIP have a number of seats already, so <50 TOTAL is very unlikely. Ladbrokes' odds are for number of gains.

    The 15/8 > 100 looks decent value to me. I appreciate that they are likely to do well without winning seats in many places, but still think 100 plus is very doable.

    timmo said:

    The bit I forgot to say is that if you are not convinced that UKIP will mean more than 50 seats then Paddypower are a whopping 5/1 for under 50 seats. Not often you get an arbitrage/ opportunity like that with Ladbrokes combined above 50 at around 5/4.


    Not an arb though, is it, Timmo?

    UKIP have a number of seats already, so <50 TOTAL is very unlikely. Ladbrokes' odds are for number of gains.

    The 15/8 > 100 looks decent value to me. I appreciate that they are likely to do well without winning seats in many places, but still think 100 plus is very doable.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Roger - "pot hole politics" - suggest Ed should stop digging.
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    rogerhrogerh Posts: 282
    As Mike says the Tories dominate in terms of seat (and Council contro) in the areas up for election tomorrow.
    Thre is a virtual long term Tory Control monploy in many county counils.So which councils might be expected to change Control tomorrow.?
    The swing to Labour should give them outright control of Derbyshire,and move Lancashire,Nottinghamshire,Warwickshire and Gloustershire to NOC.
    It is possible that The Lib Dems could pick up a few seats in Somerset from the Tories ad move it from Con lto NOC but that looks a long shot.
    More speculative is the UKIP influnce.Looking at my own forecast of 98 Ukip gains then strong resultsfor them and losses for the |Tories could mean that The Con's lose to no overall control Cambs,Dorset,W Sussex and Wiltshire (Unitary).
    Any thoughts from others on likely Council changes?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    tim said:

    @FatSteve

    Miliband leads Cameron among men and women in the MORI leader ratings.

    To save everyone else embarrassing themselves here are the base voting figures from 2009 in the area polled.


    Con 44.5
    Lab 13

    It really would be embarrassing for Labour if their one nation party got anything like the less than the one in six votes that they had in 2009, across the vast swathes of English shire counties and unitary authorities.

    The one nation meme would be seen as a farce. Better to focus on the core votes in the cities and try to pick up a few more suburbs, this being a successful strategy in the past. If not a one nation party it is ridiculous to pretend that you are.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Anthony Wells on the ComRes poll:

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/7372?utm_source=buffer&amp;utm_medium=twitter&amp;utm_campaign=Buffer:+stephentall+on+twitter&amp;buffer_share=685f3

    By my estimates it would produce getting on for 500 Conservative losses and 250 UKIP gains, if it is giving an accurate picture… and local election predictions are not something that there is much track record for. We shall see

    250 UKIP gains! Blimey! Thats over double my figure in my most optimistic mode, (see earlier post). If UKIP reach that number and the Tories suffer a 500± loss, then we are really in revolutionary times.

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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,287
    PFI

    Poor Financial Incompetence - who signed that little lot off.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-22355993
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    timmo said:

    The bit I forgot to say is that if you are not convinced that UKIP will mean more than 50 seats then Paddypower are a whopping 5/1 for under 50 seats. Not often you get an arbitrage/ opportunity like that with Ladbrokes combined above 50 at around 5/4.


    Not an arb though, is it, Timmo?

    UKIP have a number of seats already, so <50 TOTAL is very unlikely. Ladbrokes' odds are for number of gains.

    The 15/8 > 100 looks decent value to me. I appreciate that they are likely to do well without winning seats in many places, but still think 100 plus is very doable.
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    On the eve of the locals, wonder which party this Sun splash will help:

    BRITAIN will be the world’s most ethnically diverse Western nation after 2050, a bombshell study has found.
    A massive influx of immigrants has given the UK the fastest-rising percentage of ethnic minority and foreign-born populations.
    The report’s author says foreigners and non-whites living here will DOUBLE by 2040 — to make up a third of the UK.
    He has even controversially claimed white Brits will be a MINORITY by 2066.

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4909876/White-Britons-minority-by-2066-claim.html#ixzz2S1LavVbz

    That shows the importance of integrating migrants. Gove's great moves in terms of teaching British history properly in schools is a big help, but we need more. I think it's a mistake to wait for royal weddings and coronations to have celebrations of Britishness. We need them every year. That's the way the US has successfully integrated its migrants and we should do the same.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    Oh yes, I have heard the quote, but didn't realise it was Sir Thomas Beecham who had said it.

    I suspect he was simply embarrassed that his own wiffle stick, if waved around in public, would impress no-one.

    Been out so missed your reply

    Mr Dancer we have just passed Shakespeare's birthday so from here on in Stratford will be filling up with morris dancers as the summer progresses. Presumably you won't be heading down south for ant festivities ?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,130
    Talking of popular decisions Vince is urging the Scottish authorities to make an "early" decision about prosecution of RBS banksters: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22361216

    After 5 years "early" is pushing it but I like the sentiment. Not so sure that Eck will like the idea of putting some of his erstwhile friends in the pokey though. Tee hee.
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    I agree PtP, UKIP must surely win at least 100 seats to keep their momentum going - any fewer will seem like a damp squib and 15/8 looks like very fair value to me.

    So far I've found very few bookies offering Local Election markets and Oddschecker don't appear to be featuring any.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Mr. Brooke, I shall not, though I hope you enjoy the festivities.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    DavidL said:

    Talking of popular decisions Vince is urging the Scottish authorities to make an "early" decision about prosecution of RBS banksters: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22361216

    After 5 years "early" is pushing it but I like the sentiment. Not so sure that Eck will like the idea of putting some of his erstwhile friends in the pokey though. Tee hee.

    Has Vince woken up then ?
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    As they say on here, anecdote alert. Judging by how much effort the LDs are putting into the Melbourn area seat, they are certain to hold it. 100+ properties with 'vote Susan van de Ven' orange LD diamonds, many on sticks. 3 different deliveries of 3 different electoral leaflets to every voter on the patch. A very hard working existing local councillor.
    If this were to be replicated wherever there is a current LD member, they'll lose no seats. Their vote will collapse where it doesn't matter to them. The Euro elections will be a very different matter, when they'll be big odds-on to finish a very poor 4th.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    Mr. Brooke, I shall not, though I hope you enjoy the festivities.

    normally about the middle of the summer we'll have one weekend when there'll be anything up to a dozen troupes performing in the town centre, and startled japanese tourists trying to figure out what's going on.

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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    As they say on here, anecdote alert. Judging by how much effort the LDs are putting into the Melbourn area seat, they are certain to hold it. 100+ properties with 'vote Susan van de Ven' orange LD diamonds, many on sticks. 3 different deliveries of 3 different electoral leaflets to every voter on the patch. A very hard working existing local councillor.
    If this were to be replicated wherever there is a current LD member, they'll lose no seats. Their vote will collapse where it doesn't matter to them. The Euro elections will be a very different matter, when they'll be big odds-on to finish a very poor 4th.

    Inside the city walls of Cambridge the Orange triangle count has been decimated - where once the sandal wearing webels used to proudly display their totems of being "alternative" has been replaced with a pile of focus leaflets. Melbourn has undergone massive housebuilding and plans for more in last few years - you know housebuilding the hat that rEd is hanging 2015 on - it could cost the incumbent council dear.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    @TGOHF
    "Roger - "pot hole politics" - suggest Ed should stop digging."

    Well it's too subtle for me then so how the octogenarian Telegraph readers were expected to get it I've no idea.

    I just thought thank goodness the man's got a plan and isn't the vacuous speak your weight machine he's looked like for the last few months
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,826
    Morning all :)

    Local elections, don't you just love them?

    The Conservatives lost 490 County Council seats in 1993 - that was an awful night for them. They went below 1,000 in total number of Councillors. That might be one benchmark to consider when assessing performance. That was on an estimated national vote share of 31% so not far off what the polls are saying now. The big winners then were the Lib Dems who gained nearly 400 seats on a 24% share while Labour gained 90 seats on a 41% share. Will UKIP do as well now?

    There's usually something for everyone in local elections - it's rarely as good as you hope or as bad as you fear. A lot of it is expectation management, both your own and the public game. My own view is that Labour will be happiest with the results by Friday evening - they will have swept the LDs and Conservatives out of many northern seats. As for UKIP - I don't know. Will they be able to concentrate their vote where they need it or will it be 20% everywhere and little to show? The LDs will be forced back into their most solid heartlands while the Conservatives, like the Russians in 1941-42, will cede seats but still retain control in most Counties and will console themseleves that in 2017, IF Labour are in Government, they will be getting many of these losses back.

    For UKIP, it will be all about keeping the momentum going through the summer and that's tough. There are three sorts of political summer:

    1) Quiet - nothing much happens. People go on holiday, life moves on and everyone forgets Nigel Farage.
    2) Crisis (good) - something big happens somewhere over which our Government has little control - Korea, Syria, Iran, wherever. The crisis dominates. Governments like these - it neuters the opposition who either have to support or say nothing. Gordon Brown had one of these in 2007. Plots are foiled, evil thwarted etc, etc. Everyone forgets Nigel Farage.
    3) Crisis (bad) - internal political scandal leading to resignations or Eurozone crisis. Day after day, the media is dominated by this. Nigel Farage is everywhere and no one forgets him.

    It's amazing how soon local elections are forgotten as life moves on and we contemplate winners at Ascot or a winner at Wimbledon or our two weeks of heaven/hell (delete as appropriate) that we call a holiday.
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    JonCJonC Posts: 67
    Got a UKIP leaflet - first ever I think.

    Strangely it makes no mention of immigration/barely disguised racism, just potholes and some waffle about local people power.

    My vote tomorrow still depends largely on the weather. None of the above by default/absence is still odds-on but if it's sunny I might vote against the Kippers as they get more and more unpleasant the more I find out about them.

    They are bound to do well though with the demographics in their favour, given that old people being MUCH more likely (a) to vote and (b) be a bit racist even though they wouldn't see it as that...
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited May 2013
    @Tim

    "If the Mail is commissioning pieces on the Chumocracy..."

    Great first line by Dan Hodges-up there with Woody Allen's in "Annie Hall" *

    "David Cameron is always right. We know this because one of his closest aides told us. ‘Did I get all my facts right?’ the Prime Minister asked a civil servant in an exchange chronicled in a Sunday newspaper last weekend.

    ‘Yes Prime Minister, just as you always do,’ came the mandarin’s bold response."

    * "two elderly women are at a Catskill mountain resort, and one of 'em says, "Boy, the food at this place is really terrible." The other one says, "Yeah, I know; and such small portions."
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Socrates said:

    On the eve of the locals, wonder which party this Sun splash will help:

    BRITAIN will be the world’s most ethnically diverse Western nation after 2050, a bombshell study has found.
    A massive influx of immigrants has given the UK the fastest-rising percentage of ethnic minority and foreign-born populations.
    The report’s author says foreigners and non-whites living here will DOUBLE by 2040 — to make up a third of the UK.
    He has even controversially claimed white Brits will be a MINORITY by 2066.

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4909876/White-Britons-minority-by-2066-claim.html#ixzz2S1LavVbz

    That shows the importance of integrating migrants. Gove's great moves in terms of teaching British history properly in schools is a big help, but we need more. I think it's a mistake to wait for royal weddings and coronations to have celebrations of Britishness. We need them every year. That's the way the US has successfully integrated its migrants and we should do the same.
    If I remember correctly, Brown considered creating a new public holiday to celebrate Britishness. A fair number of people nominated Trafalgar Day (October 21st, or the next Monday afterwards) as a suitable day, which has the added benefit of falling in the school half-term (in most places).

    Adding another permanent bank holiday would have a marginal impact on GDP, but there would be benefits too.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,130
    Roger said:

    @Tim

    "If the Mail is commissioning pieces on the Chumocracy..."

    Great first line by Dan Hodges-up there with Woody Allen's in "Annie Hall"

    "David Cameron is always right. We know this because one of his closest aides told us. ‘Did I get all my facts right?’ the Prime Minister asked a civil servant in an exchange chronicled in a Sunday newspaper last weekend.

    ‘Yes Prime Minister, just as you always do,’ came the mandarin’s bold response."

    That was a rather odd piece in the ST magazine. Seemed mainly to do with silverback gorillas and how impressive a specimen Cameron was.

    Really a bit odd but it did ask where the speakers of truth to power were. The idea that this was going to happen in the course of an interview with a journalist from the ST did strike me as somewhat naive.

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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim - there were two around Cambs planned - one is underway around Addenbrookes the other got canned when the a14 upgrade got mothballed.

    Lds including MP Huppert are actively campaigning against the a14 upgrade and hence the new town.

    Cons for. Lab dunno - they are banging on about safeguarding council jobs.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    edited May 2013
    JonC said:

    Got a UKIP leaflet - first ever I think.

    Strangely it makes no mention of immigration/barely disguised racism, just potholes and some waffle about local people power.

    My vote tomorrow still depends largely on the weather. None of the above by default/absence is still odds-on but if it's sunny I might vote against the Kippers as they get more and more unpleasant the more I find out about them.

    They are bound to do well though with the demographics in their favour, given that old people being MUCH more likely (a) to vote and (b) be a bit racist even though they wouldn't see it as that...

    How unfortunate Jon. Round here the UKIP leaflets have pictures of SS Panzergenadiers storming the town hall and promises that the London Midland Rail services will improve punctuality to a backdrop of Mussolini. Only last week Nigel Farage was personally autographing copies of Mein Kampf in Leamington Spa and regaling the town with tales of his time as a Stuka pilot over Brackley. Or maybe just the name calling has been overdone.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,130
    edited May 2013

    DavidL said:

    Talking of popular decisions Vince is urging the Scottish authorities to make an "early" decision about prosecution of RBS banksters: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22361216

    After 5 years "early" is pushing it but I like the sentiment. Not so sure that Eck will like the idea of putting some of his erstwhile friends in the pokey though. Tee hee.

    Has Vince woken up then ?
    I think that would be overstating it. Like you, I think, I am greatly disappointed that his department has not rolled back the regulatory overkill of the last government and focussed on what was important. The lack of supply side reform from Vince will cost us dear in the long run.

    I also have to say that if wants prosecutions he really does not need to look north of the border. Was the LIBOR scandal, for example, not creating a false market with a view to gain? Were most of the traders not based in London? Why are they still walking the streets?

    Trust and integrity will be restored in financial markets when it is made crystal clear that there are consequences for their actions. Any regulatory system that is more focussed on box ticking than that is a failure.

    Will we do any better with ICAP? Yet another stonking article by Matt Taibbi in Rolling Stone about this: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/everything-is-rigged-the-biggest-financial-scandal-yet-20130425

    All the usual suspects are there and many of them are Brits or at least working in London. Taibbi is by far the best financial journalist of the Crash. He puts his British compatriots to shame.

    Edit I loved this bit:
    "Famously, one Barclays trader monkeyed with Libor submissions in exchange for a bottle of Bollinger champagne, but in some cases, it was even lamer than that. This is from an exchange between a trader and a Libor submitter at the Royal Bank of Scotland:


    SWISS FRANC TRADER: can u put 6m swiss libor in low pls?...
    PRIMARY SUBMITTER: Whats it worth
    SWSISS FRANC TRADER: ive got some sushi rolls from yesterday?...
    PRIMARY SUBMITTER: ok low 6m, just for u
    SWISS FRANC TRADER: wooooooohooooooo. . . thatd be awesome

    Screwing around with world interest rates that affect billions of people in exchange for day-old sushi – it's hard to imagine an image that better captures the moral insanity of the modern financial-services sector."


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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Talking of popular decisions Vince is urging the Scottish authorities to make an "early" decision about prosecution of RBS banksters: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22361216

    After 5 years "early" is pushing it but I like the sentiment. Not so sure that Eck will like the idea of putting some of his erstwhile friends in the pokey though. Tee hee.

    Has Vince woken up then ?
    I think that would be overstating it. Like you, I think, I am greatly disappointed that his department has not rolled back the regulatory overkill of the last government and focussed on what was important. The lack of supply side reform from Vince will cost us dear in the long run.

    I also have to say that if wants prosecutions he really does not need to look north of the border. Was the LIBOR scandal, for example, not creating a false market with a view to gain? Were most of the traders not based in London? Why are they still walking the streets?

    Trust and integrity will be restored in financial markets when it is made crystal clear that there are consequences for their actions. Any regulatory system that is more focussed on box ticking than that is a failure.

    Will we do any better with ICAP? Yet another stonking article by Matt Tabbai in Rolling Stone about this: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/everything-is-rigged-the-biggest-financial-scandal-yet-20130425

    All the usual suspects are there and many of them are Brits or at least working in London. Tabbi is by far the best financial journalist of the Crash. He puts his British compatriots to shame.


    The unfortunate thing about supply side reform is that it still all has to be done so avoiding it solves nothing. As for the banks I just find it incredible that no-one has been brought to justice. The FSA in all its miserable history missed the biggest crash we've had and then did nothing about it. The box ticking approach just doesn't work, I'm all for the Admiral Byng approach " pour encourager les autres".
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    edited May 2013
    Hmm looked like an arb, think the actual bet is backing 0-50 and 58+ seats at around 1-5 though. Still feels ok...
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    @TGOHF

    Good round up of the polling on housing and it's increasing saliency, from the IpsosMori bloke


    http://www.yestohomes.co.uk/ideas/opinion/item/30-locally-maybe-to-homes-ben-marshall-ipsos-mori#.UYDbNSt37uv

    http://www.trumpingtonmeadows.com/

    480 new houses - build by the private sector - I'm all for it if done properly.

    Dr Huppert MP is not in favour of upgrading the A14 and allowing the other new town Northstowe to move forward.

    He was of course was against the guided busway - which is very popular with commuters.

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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    Two weeks ago, I suggested UKIP would win 10% or so of the overall vote tomorrow, and about 50 divisions. That looks like a considerable underestimate. There seems to be a bandwagon rolling, similar to the last few days of the Eastleigh by-election. If they did win 22% and 250 divisions, they'd be here to stay, as a significant presence in local government. There might even be Counties where they were the largest party. Once you win 22% in a four-way contest, you start picking up a lot of seats.

    UKIP do best among older voters and working-class voters. Therefore, look to divisions with disproportionate numbers of older voters or working class voters as the places they'll do best. In the case of the former, they should do well along the South and South West Coasts. In the case of the latter, they should do well in places like the Thames Estuary, Basildon, Harlow, Burton, Newcastle under Lyme, Great Yarmouth, Borehamwood, Margate and Ramsgate, and some ex-mining areas.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    @TGOHF

    Makes sense to get workers pension funds involved in the financing, and 40% affordable housing seems sensible too.

    Yes - should be a much needed development of proper houses. However why the LD MP isn't in favour of a further boost by upgrading the local infrastructure to cope is a mystery - well it aint really - he's against cars - blinded by green fervour.


    Manu PMI -less down than before (Reuters)

    "The Markit/CIPS Manufacturing Purchasing Managers' Index (PMI) rose to 49.8 in April from an upwardly revised 48.6 in March, putting the sector within a whisker of the 50 line that separates growth from contraction.

    Economists had expected a much weaker reading of 48.5."

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,130

    I'm obviously spending too much time looking at politics. On a quick scan of the front page headlines on the BBC website, for a moment I thought 'Lab maggots turn to cannibalism' must be a political story.

    Yes but were you surprised? Did you think even for Labour that was going a bit far? Or was it same old same old?

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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,321
    After 90 or so hours on the doorstep, some provisional anecdotal views:

    - The Tory vote is in serious trouble, mainly due to UKIP. Labour will do very well in Tory/Lab marginals and even not-so-marginals

    - The LibDem councillor vote is highly resilient. All the other parties will struggle to gain seats from them, though a few will be picked off.

    - Labour's vote is quite keen but at least here contrary to ComRes) we're not picking up loads of new ones. We should do well overall but Notts control may be a challenge because lots of the target seats are LibDem.

    - UKIP is doing reasonably well even where they have no campaign at all, like here in Broxtowe. God knows what it's doing where they're campaigning.

    - Turnout will be up. Quite a few people who haven't voted for years are coming out to join the Kipperfest.
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Kipperfest.

    Sort of like Glastonbury for mustachiod colonels and twinset-and-pearl-wearing spinsters.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,916
    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    @TGOHF

    Good round up of the polling on housing and it's increasing saliency, from the IpsosMori bloke


    http://www.yestohomes.co.uk/ideas/opinion/item/30-locally-maybe-to-homes-ben-marshall-ipsos-mori#.UYDbNSt37uv

    http://www.trumpingtonmeadows.com/

    480 new houses - build by the private sector - I'm all for it if done properly.

    Dr Huppert MP is not in favour of upgrading the A14 and allowing the other new town Northstowe to move forward.

    He was of course was against the guided busway - which is very popular with commuters.

    They were talking about building on Trumpington Meadows when I moved to Cambridge back in 1997, and work has only just started!

    I live in Cambourne, which is not a bad place to live, really. Even if it is filled with kids (*). Northstowe is turning into a little bit of a mess - the A14 is nothing to do with it; it's more to do with the developers' finances.

    A section 106 has just been signed for Northstowe - http://www.homesandcommunities.co.uk/northstowe-gets-planning-milestone

    They got Cambourne 80% right. Sadly, they're going to make mistakes when it comes to Northstowe. It won't be as nice a place to live (although still not as bad as Bar Hill).

    And there are interesting noises about the Waterbeach Barracks site, as well.

    The busway has been an expensive mess. Don't get me started on it...

    (*) Someone told me that Cambourne is the youngest place in the world. I don't know if that's true, but there's certainly a very large number of young kids around.
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    It appears that Conservatives in Nuneaton are using as part of their canvassing a scratch card offering an IPad as a prize , police are investigating a possible breach of the Representation Of The People Act 1983 s. 113 subsection 2
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,130
    edited May 2013
    So, if UKIP come second who is more damaged? Cameron, who in such a scenario will have lost a whole slew of seats, Clegg, whose LA base which is central to the parties' very survival and will have taken another hammering or Miliband whose party will have gained seats but will have been superseded as the principal opposition?

    I think that is quite tricky. The politics of austerity are shaking up our structures in a way we have not seen for a long time. Tim focusses on the facts that the majority of Kippers are ex tories and that they so far come from demographics the tories rely on most. These are both clearly good points but as the Italian example recently showed once the clowns get to a certain level everybody can play.

    The really interesting thing is we have at least another decade of this. No money, frustration, impotence, arguing about differences of policy that the average member of the public could never spot, alienation, anti politics. All coming to a street near you.
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    In the South the Conservatives attending the various postal vote openings will already know the scale of the UKIP effect.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633




    The busway has been an expensive mess. Don't get me started on it...

    .

    The contract fallout remains a mess but the utilisation has been off the charts - poor project management but a great resource now. The only people who don't like it are the one's who don't use it - the LDs are against it in principle - I think because it wasn't their idea.


    http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/News/Guided-bus-takes-600000-car-journeys-off-the-roads-says-council-28092012.htm

    "The study said the busway carried 2.5 million passengers in its first year, 40 per cent beyond its 1.75 million target "
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914

    JonC said:

    Got a UKIP leaflet - first ever I think.

    Strangely it makes no mention of immigration/barely disguised racism, just potholes and some waffle about local people power.

    My vote tomorrow still depends largely on the weather. None of the above by default/absence is still odds-on but if it's sunny I might vote against the Kippers as they get more and more unpleasant the more I find out about them.

    They are bound to do well though with the demographics in their favour, given that old people being MUCH more likely (a) to vote and (b) be a bit racist even though they wouldn't see it as that...

    How unfortunate Jon. Round here the UKIP leaflets have pictures of SS Panzergenadiers storming the town hall and promises that the London Midland Rail services will improve punctuality to a backdrop of Mussolini. Only last week Nigel Farage was personally autographing copies of Mein Kampf in Leamington Spa and regaling the town with tales of his time as a Stuka pilot over Brackley. Or maybe just the name calling has been overdone.

    Not a sign of UKIP in Leamington as far as I can see, except a big billboard by the station. We've had nothig through the door from them. Maybe they are concentrating on the smaller conurbations and villages. I could see them doing very well in a place like Southam if they fielded candidates there. But then again, we've only had one LD and one Labour pamphlet. I am not sure there is an election here.


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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    For anyone interested in Cornwall politics there is an excellent seat by seat analysis of the Cornish CC elections at http://catholicleft,blogspot.co.uk . With boundary changes , Defections of Conservative and Lib Dem councillors to Independent and other parties the position is to say the least complex .
    The approx outcome forecast is
    Con 4 gains 26 losses
    LD 17 gains 6 losses
    Ind 5 gains 9 losses
    Lab 7 gains
    MK 3 gains
    UKIP/Green 2 gains each
    Liberal 1 gain
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    It's hard to argue with much in this:

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/alex-massie/2013/05/a-tory-party-that-is-spooked-by-ukip-is-a-tory-party-that-will-lose-the-next-election/

    Though such is the fifth columnist nature of the Conservative right, its logic will be ignored by many.
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Democrats lead the congressional ballot: 41% to 37%

    http://politicalwire.com/archives/2013/05/01/democrats_lead_in_generic_congressional_ballot.html

    That could be enough to retake the House, if it holds.
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    antifrank said:

    It's hard to argue with much in this:

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/alex-massie/2013/05/a-tory-party-that-is-spooked-by-ukip-is-a-tory-party-that-will-lose-the-next-election/

    Though such is the fifth columnist nature of the Conservative right, its logic will be ignored by many.

    Of course there is. It's whole premise is based on the idea that the political parties and the electorate are all based along a linear right-left spectrum. In reality, the rise of UKIP is happening because many of their policies are popular with the centre: restricting our relationship with the EU to a trade deal, controlling immigration, being tougher on criminal justice. The Tories can very easy adopt such policies, sidelining UKIP, without losing the centre because such positions are popular with the center.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    Great photo of Gareth Bale and Sam Warburton in their (state comprehensive) school football team. They were in the same class I believe.

    https://www.facebook.com/offtheball/photos_stream#!/photo.php?fbid=10152816137500441&set=pb.10150089120710441.-2207520000.1367403463.&type=3&theater

    What an amazing 48 hours for that school and how incredibly proud everyone there must feel.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,321
    Here's ComRes's commentary on their poll, including their figures for 2009 in the same areas:

    http://comresupdates.eu.com/DCJ-1GIID-F21LMD8E11/cr.aspx
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    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    @NickPalmer - I think the comparison is with the 2009 total vote-shares, isn't it? In which case it is misleading, since UKIP only contested 25% of seats in 2009.
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    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    antifrank said:

    Serious political parties don't pander to a group of voters' psychiatric crises.

    Indeed, but they still need their votes!
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    Socrates said:

    antifrank said:

    It's hard to argue with much in this:

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/alex-massie/2013/05/a-tory-party-that-is-spooked-by-ukip-is-a-tory-party-that-will-lose-the-next-election/

    Though such is the fifth columnist nature of the Conservative right, its logic will be ignored by many.

    Of course there is. It's whole premise is based on the idea that the political parties and the electorate are all based along a linear right-left spectrum. In reality, the rise of UKIP is happening because many of their policies are popular with the centre: restricting our relationship with the EU to a trade deal, controlling immigration, being tougher on criminal justice. The Tories can very easy adopt such policies, sidelining UKIP, without losing the centre because such positions are popular with the center.
    Is the centre populist I wonder... certainly on many areas it is, if a particular position has over say 60% of the electorate for it I would say it is.

    Which would cover things like this:
    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/04/26/brits-ignore-courts-and-deport-qatada/

    It's this underlying populism that UKIP are currently tapping into, along with a general unhappiness with all politicans, or at least the 'out of touch' political class (and this is happening across Europe).
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    NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    Good to see Justine Greening ending aid to South Africa. The decision to move her to overseas aid looks to have been a good one and her skills as a chartered accountant are being put to good use in that department. Expect to see some more thoughtful pruning in the months to come.
This discussion has been closed.