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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why at 40-1 John Kerry is worth a punt for the 2016 Democra

SystemSystem Posts: 11,018
edited February 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why at 40-1 John Kerry is worth a punt for the 2016 Democratic party nomination

The first thing I did on my return last night from an intensive tour of Israel and Palestine was to place a bet at 50/1 with Ladbrokes on the defeated 2004 presidential candidate, John Kerry, for the Democratic party nomination in the 2016 White House race. Alas the bookie has now cut the price to 25/1 though you can still get him at 40/1 with other firms.

Read the full story here


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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,988
    First?

    Kerry's too old, too white, and too male. None of which should discount him from the presidency, but they will.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Er naw - I'm out even as a trading bet...
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,960
    Can I be the third to say "no"

    Although if Clinton blows up, who knows
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,246
    Is this not the traditional thing that every American President does to fill in the last couple of years of the Presidency when Congress is just ignoring them and the party is focussed on the next new thing?

    John Kerry has had his chance and he lost to the worst President in my life time. He has been a good Secretary of State and has arguably achieved more in Iran etc than Clinton did in her 4 years but this is his swan song and then goodbye from public life. No doubt a senior academic post awaits and it will suit him well.

    On his performance in the last couple of years he might have been a good President (certainly better than Bush) but we will never know. Even if Hilary's health stops her from running I do not see him being in the frame. The precedent, I suppose, is Nixon. Hmmm...
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    There's no plausible universe where any of this actually happens.
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    I gave up at "if his Middle East peace plan succeeds".

    He would need to be an alchemist, and that job-title went out of fashion several centuries ago, for obvious reasons. It became evident after several thousands of years of top-notch brains applying themselves to the problem that you just cannot transmutate crap into gold.

    Of course, the Yookay has more of its fair share of blame for creating the crap in the first place.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited February 2014
    This might be a useful short term trading bet if you consider Kerry is going to pull off a significant foreign policy coup.

    However Kerry is a poor candidate - very wooden and the success of his charisma by-pass is there for all to see.

    In contrast if Hillary runs she wins and every time a poll in a battleground state shows her cruising to the Presidency the chance of a viable Democrat challenging her for the nomination diminishes from marginal to slim .... and even Slim appears to have left town.

    Todays Quinnipiac's poll in Ohio, highlighted on the last but one thread by HYUFD, shows Hillary crushing all GOP candidates by significant margins - 9-17 points.

    http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institutes-and-centers/polling-institute/ohio/release-detail?ReleaseID=2010
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    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,203
    Kerry has no chance and I can't even see him wanting to run. I've reluctantly come to the conclusion that the nomination is Hillary's if she wants it. If she doesn't then I'd look closely at Mark Warner. As a real long shot, how about Al Franken?
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    LennonLennon Posts: 1,733
    Is there anywhere to bet on Kerry to be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize? If he is successful he is more deserving than most recent recipients, and close failure could easily be rewarded as well.
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    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    The foundation for this is a Middle East peace plan?

    I'd need another reason as thats a lottery, even as a market movement bet.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,988
    Off-topic: the floods.

    Compare and contrast:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26284047
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/30/dredging-rivers-floods-somerset-levels-david-cameron-farmers

    And so the experts (not Monbiot) proclaim:
    Use of forestry and land management to hold back water in the upper reaches of rivers, as well as dredging for the lower reaches
    As I said passim, the Levels are downstream. Allowing the rivers there to silt up is not a solution, unless you are are more interested in wildlife than human life.

    Also note the 'experts' pretty much agreeing with what I've said on here over the last few weeks. Except I did not suggest SuDS for existing dwellings, as it would be very expensive:
    • Use of forestry and land management to hold back water in the upper reaches of rivers, as well as dredging for the lower reaches
    • Fitting sustainable drainage systems on existing buildings and new buildings
    • Buildings and land that cannot be properly protected should be made to withstand flooding
    • All new housing on flood plains must be resilient when built
    • More co-operation between experts, the water companies, internal drainage boards, local authorities, the Environment Agency, and Natural Resources Wales, as well as between them and landowners or residents
    Also as I said passim, Lord Smith is hopeless. And it looks as though he's going to be put in charge of newspaper regulation. He should just admit he's hopeless and walk away from his many jobs.

    (shakes his head and mutters)
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    Welcome back, Mike.
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    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Can we have another Indy Ref thread..I need a laugh..
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    Kerry? No.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Surely more value in laying Hilary ?

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    TGOHF said:

    Surely more value in laying Hilary ?

    Fnarrr fnarr!
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Not for me as a bet. Americans are not that interested in foreign policy (apart from wars) and I dont think Britons are either. There are no second acts in American lives.

    Israel and palestine are fascinating places with surprises everywhere.
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    What a mess in the Ukraine! Another country which is in reality two countries that don’t sit comfortably together. The Catholic, Ukrainian speaking, Tymoshenko voting, EU facing North/West is, it seems, incompatible with the Orthodox, Russian speaking, Yanukovich voting, Russia facing South /East. It’s a Slavic Belgium.

    Imagine what it must be like living in a country that is not happily unified and where the people of different regions don’t pull together with a common purpose and sense of identity.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Rod will explode - having previously told us how Hillary cant win because ex-SoSs cant run for the Presidency the thought of two of them going for it could overwhelm him completely.
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    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited February 2014
    O/T Surprise,surprise.. Balls says that Flood Defences would be the priority when he is in Government..gosh..How many priorities is that now?
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Shalom ve Salaam Mike, can't wait to read your of your recent experiences in that cauldron of the middle - east.
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    Neil said:

    Rod will explode - having previously told us how Hillary cant win because ex-SoSs cant run for the Presidency the thought of two of them going for it could overwhelm him completely.

    His post of yesterday evening suggests he's already exploded.
    Several times.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,636
    edited February 2014

    O/T SurprisE,surprise.. Balls says that Flood Defences would be the priority when he is in Government..gosh..How many priorities is that now?

    How's he going to pay for it? Oh I know! A Bankers Bonus Tax!

    On Kerry, while I too hae me doots about anything predicated on success in the Middle East, one should not forget OGH record of spotting early long shots which turn out well.

    As for the mess in the Middle East, while were bandying blame around, let us not forget where the author of the Balfour Declaration was born.....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_James_Balfour
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    In the fuss yesterday about the continuing trend towards Yes in the Scottish independence referendum polling I don't think that anyone noticed that Survation had also conducted a Scottish Parliament voting intention poll (+/- change from Scottish general election 2011):

    Scottish Parliament voting intention - constituency vote (FPTP)

    SNP 44% (-1)
    Lab 31% (-1)
    Con 13% (-1)
    LD 6% (-2)

    Scottish Parliament voting intention - regional vote (AMS)

    SNP 41% (-3)
    Lab 28% (+2)
    Con 13% (+1)
    LD 8% (+3)

    Note: the changes are shown in comparison to the last Scottish GE in 2011 rather than the last Survation VI poll due to the change in Survation's methodology. Those changes were:

    SNP 44% (+6)
    Lab 31% (-5)
    Con 13% (+1)
    LD 6% (-3)
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Morning all. Wouldn't John Kerry need to acquire a personality first. I remember last time he tried to get elected. He is more wooden than the newel posts in my staircase. I saw references down thread to people laying Hilary. Don't tell Bill. I'm sure he is the only member of the Clinton family he believes should get laid!!

    Are we having a thread about the poll claiming most Scots want an Eck Plan B? He could borrow one from Ed Balls. He has more plans than a cartographer.

    Off to watch GE 1974 on Politics channel. I've got lots of boring employment contracts to write today so should help pass a few hours.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    O/T SurprisE,surprise.. Balls says that Flood Defences would be the priority when he is in Government..gosh..How many priorities is that now?

    How's he going to pay for it? Oh I know! A Bankers Bonus Tax!

    On Kerry, while I too hae me doots about anything predicated on success in the Middle East, one should not forget OGH record of spotting early long shots which turn out well.

    As for the mess in the Middle East, while were bandying blame around, let us not forget where the author of the Balfour Declaration was born.....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_James_Balfour
    Quite right too ! So far none of the *ankers have been put in prison. The government could sell "Get out of Jail" cards for £50m each !
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited February 2014


    Scottish Parliament voting intention - constituency vote (FPTP)
    SNP 44% (-1)
    Lab 31% (-1)
    Con 13% (-1)
    LD 6% (-2)

    Who is up +5 then Ukip, SSP or the rounding error party ?
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    Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    edited February 2014
    Patrick said:

    What a mess in the Ukraine! Another country which is in reality two countries that don’t sit comfortably together. The Catholic, Ukrainian speaking, Tymoshenko voting, EU facing North/West is, it seems, incompatible with the Orthodox, Russian speaking, Yanukovich voting, Russia facing South /East. It’s a Slavic Belgium.

    Imagine what it must be like living in a country that is not happily unified and where the people of different regions don’t pull together with a common purpose and sense of identity.

    England, Scotland, Wales and the north of Ireland would be perfectly willing to "pull together with a common purpose" if they were ever shown any respect by the British Establishment, but they never are. Whitehall, Westminster, the BBC and all the other tools of the Establishment are utterly repulsed by any elements of society, culture or civic society outwith their own control and/or outwith their bogus version of "Britishness".
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,988
    surbiton said:

    O/T SurprisE,surprise.. Balls says that Flood Defences would be the priority when he is in Government..gosh..How many priorities is that now?

    How's he going to pay for it? Oh I know! A Bankers Bonus Tax!

    On Kerry, while I too hae me doots about anything predicated on success in the Middle East, one should not forget OGH record of spotting early long shots which turn out well.

    As for the mess in the Middle East, while were bandying blame around, let us not forget where the author of the Balfour Declaration was born.....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_James_Balfour
    Quite right too ! So far none of the *ankers have been put in prison. The government could sell "Get out of Jail" cards for £50m each !
    Where it is believed that there have been criminal acts, there have been, or are going to be, prosecutions.

    The rest of it was institutional incompetence. And I cannot see any government, yet alone a Labour one, criminalising incompetence.
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    Neil said:

    Rod will explode - having previously told us how Hillary cant win because ex-SoSs cant run for the Presidency the thought of two of them going for it could overwhelm him completely.

    He lives in the realms of pure fantasy that guy - thinks the Holocaust didn't happen and that Obama wasn't born in the States.
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    TGOHF said:


    Scottish Parliament voting intention - constituency vote (FPTP)
    SNP 44% (-1)
    Lab 31% (-1)
    Con 13% (-1)
    LD 6% (-2)

    Who is up +5 then Ukip, SSP or the rounding error party ?
    The detailed tables are not available on their website yet, but my guess would be:

    Greens
    rounding
    UKIP

    ... in that order.

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    In the fuss yesterday about the continuing trend towards Yes in the Scottish independence referendum polling I don't think that anyone noticed that Survation had also conducted a Scottish Parliament voting intention poll (+/- change from Scottish general election 2011):

    Scottish Parliament voting intention - constituency vote (FPTP)

    SNP 44% (-1)
    Lab 31% (-1)
    Con 13% (-1)
    LD 6% (-2)

    Very strong performance from a mid-term government - tho I suspect the SNP are fortunate in their principal enemies - it will be fascinating to see how, or whether it changes post indyref. You can argue triumph or disaster for the SNP on either outcome.
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    As for the mess in the Middle East, while were bandying blame around, let us not forget where the author of the Balfour Declaration was born.....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_James_Balfour

    A boner fidee ethnic nationalist!

  • Options

    In the fuss yesterday about the continuing trend towards Yes in the Scottish independence referendum polling I don't think that anyone noticed that Survation had also conducted a Scottish Parliament voting intention poll (+/- change from Scottish general election 2011):

    Scottish Parliament voting intention - constituency vote (FPTP)

    SNP 44% (-1)
    Lab 31% (-1)
    Con 13% (-1)
    LD 6% (-2)

    Very strong performance from a mid-term government - tho I suspect the SNP are fortunate in their principal enemies - it will be fascinating to see how, or whether it changes post indyref. You can argue triumph or disaster for the SNP on either outcome.
    Thank you for your gracious concession that it is a powerful mid-term showing by the governing party. You almost never see strong mid-term polling for governing parties, so this exception poses some terribly tricky questions for the Lamont, Davidson and Rennie teams. Just a shame that no inquisitive journalist ever bothers to ask those questions.

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,636
    edited February 2014

    TGOHF said:


    Scottish Parliament voting intention - constituency vote (FPTP)
    SNP 44% (-1)
    Lab 31% (-1)
    Con 13% (-1)
    LD 6% (-2)

    Who is up +5 then Ukip, SSP or the rounding error party ?
    The detailed tables are not available on their website yet, but my guess would be:

    Greens
    rounding
    UKIP

    ... in that order.

    These?

    http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Scotland-Issues-Poll-Report.pdf

    It shows:

    UKIP: 3
    Green: 2
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    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    edited February 2014
    @TheLastBoyScout

    'He lives in the realms of pure fantasy that guy - thinks the Holocaust didn't happen and that Obama wasn't born in the States.'

    But along with JackW has a fantastic record of predicting GE election results.
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    As for the mess in the Middle East, while were bandying blame around, let us not forget where the author of the Balfour Declaration was born.....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_James_Balfour

    A boner fidee ethnic nationalist!

    Isn't it fun how the MIddle East mess is presented as a Scottish creation because Arthur Balfour was born in East Lothian.

    Just ignore the fact that his mum was English, he was educated at Eton and Cambridge, and he was an MP for 3 English constituencies.
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    As for the mess in the Middle East, while were bandying blame around, let us not forget where the author of the Balfour Declaration was born.....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_James_Balfour

    A boner fidee ethnic nationalist!

    Isn't it fun how the MIddle East mess is presented as a Scottish creation because Arthur Balfour was born in East Lothian.
    You started the topic by presenting it as a UK mess - I was merely adding detail..
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    Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    edited February 2014

    TGOHF said:


    Scottish Parliament voting intention - constituency vote (FPTP)
    SNP 44% (-1)
    Lab 31% (-1)
    Con 13% (-1)
    LD 6% (-2)

    Who is up +5 then Ukip, SSP or the rounding error party ?
    The detailed tables are not available on their website yet, but my guess would be:

    Greens
    rounding
    UKIP

    ... in that order.

    These?

    http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Scotland-Issues-Poll-Report.pdf

    It shows:

    UKIP: 3
    Green: 2
    Ta. In that case it is:

    UKIP 3% (+3)
    Grn 2% (+2) (Note: the Greens do not put up candidates in the FPTP elections.)

    So, that accounts neatly for the missing 5% and we can ignore rounding.

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    As for the mess in the Middle East, while were bandying blame around, let us not forget where the author of the Balfour Declaration was born.....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_James_Balfour

    A boner fidee ethnic nationalist!

    Isn't it fun how the MIddle East mess is presented as a Scottish creation because Arthur Balfour was born in East Lothian.
    You started the topic by presenting it as a UK mess - I was merely adding detail..
    The Middle East mess was a catastrophe created by the British Establishment. Nothing new there: they've created thousands of them.
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    Are we having a thread about the poll claiming most Scots want an Eck Plan B? He could borrow one from Ed Balls. He has more plans than a cartographer.

    Tut tut. Ed Balls is on your team for this game Mark. (Or is he?)
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    As for the mess in the Middle East, while were bandying blame around, let us not forget where the author of the Balfour Declaration was born.....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_James_Balfour

    A boner fidee ethnic nationalist!

    Isn't it fun how the MIddle East mess is presented as a Scottish creation because Arthur Balfour was born in East Lothian.
    You started the topic by presenting it as a UK mess - I was merely adding detail..
    The Middle East mess was a catastrophe created by the British Establishment. Nothing new there: they've created thousands of them.
    And Scots were enthusiastic participants in both the Establishment and the Empire - all that shared history, eh?

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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,046
    A middle east peace deal? Be nice to see but I wouldn't hold my breath.

    John Kerry would obviously be enhanced by such a development, but the fact he lost to George W Bush and is the only Democrat to lose the popular vote since 1988 is a millstone round his neck.
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    OGH will be excited. Watford was one of the key 3 constituencies at the Feb 1974 election. Incredible seeing Robert Mackenzie's swingometer which he manually operated. Jeremy Vine eat your heart out.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    The middle east mess was created by the collapse of the Ottoman empire, ourselves merely being players in its destruction.

    Would the place be all peace and goodwill if it was not for Israel? Ask a Syrian.Or an Iraqi.Or a Kurd. Or an Armenian. Or an Assyrian Christian etc etc.

    The sad truth is that Israel is the safest place in the middle east to be Jewish, Christian, Bahai or athiest. It is even the safest place to be a Muslim. No mosque bombings or Jihdi beheadings there.


    As for the mess in the Middle East, while were bandying blame around, let us not forget where the author of the Balfour Declaration was born.....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_James_Balfour

    A boner fidee ethnic nationalist!

    Isn't it fun how the MIddle East mess is presented as a Scottish creation because Arthur Balfour was born in East Lothian.
    You started the topic by presenting it as a UK mess - I was merely adding detail..
    The Middle East mess was a catastrophe created by the British Establishment. Nothing new there: they've created thousands of them.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,332
    While I'm a bit sceptical about the bet, the trip sounds fascinating,and I've noticed the relative absence of extreme rhetoric in the region recently. A peace deal there would be the most important development of the last decade. Looking forward to Mike's article.
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915

    Are we having a thread about the poll claiming most Scots want an Eck Plan B? He could borrow one from Ed Balls. He has more plans than a cartographer.

    Tut tut. Ed Balls is on your team for this game Mark. (Or is he?)
    Stuart, Ed Balls could never be on the same team as me. That does not preclude him from sharing my views on some issues. I would rather have my economic future in John Swinney's hands than those of the 2 Eds.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited February 2014
    Farage says yes to Clegg.

    Will invite other two leaders but will do it with just Clegg.
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    Farage on LBC - 'Got to say Yes' provided Miliband & Cameron are there.....but if they won't show, will still do it...
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Farage - 2010 manifesto = drivel.

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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,988

    The middle east mess was created by the collapse of the Ottoman empire, ourselves merely being players in its destruction.

    Would the place be all peace and goodwill if it was not for Israel? Ask a Syrian.Or an Iraqi.Or a Kurd. Or an Armenian. Or an Assyrian Christian etc etc.

    The sad truth is that Israel is the safest place in the middle east to be Jewish, Christian, Bahai or athiest. It is even the safest place to be a Muslim. No mosque bombings or Jihdi beheadings there.


    As for the mess in the Middle East, while were bandying blame around, let us not forget where the author of the Balfour Declaration was born.....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_James_Balfour

    A boner fidee ethnic nationalist!

    Isn't it fun how the MIddle East mess is presented as a Scottish creation because Arthur Balfour was born in East Lothian.
    You started the topic by presenting it as a UK mess - I was merely adding detail..
    The Middle East mess was a catastrophe created by the British Establishment. Nothing new there: they've created thousands of them.
    Don't you know that in the eyes of a voluble few of our Scottish brethren, the UK (and particularly the English) are responsible for anything bad that happens?

    Even when a Scotsman was in charge. At times they veer towards the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy, as Stuart does below. "He may have been born in East Lothian, but his mum was English, and he was an English MP."

    The only thing he didn't add was: TRAITOR!

    ;-)
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    As for the mess in the Middle East, while were bandying blame around, let us not forget where the author of the Balfour Declaration was born.....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_James_Balfour

    A boner fidee ethnic nationalist!

    Is the Swedish posh boy an ethnic nationalist in your book? By SNP criteria he has no right to pose as a Scot.
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Arthur Balfour was very much a Scot regardless of where he attended school. His paternal line was drawn from some of the great Borders families. Incidentally his sister's great granddaughter is the first Tory candidate to have actively campaigned in Easterhouse in Glasgow. In 1987 she was Anne Strutt. Today she is Baroness Jenkin.
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Seeing the smug faces of the miners in 1974, little did they know the next Tory PM was well and truly going to sort them out.
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    You know that tory female MP problem??

    Guido Fawkes ‏@GuidoFawkes · 2 mins
    Lab Lady problem: Hazel Blears & Meg Munn makes it 11.1% of female Labour MPs standing down this Parliament to Tories' 8.3% Via @tomdaylight

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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    As there are now 9 female Labour MPs standing down compared to just 3 female Tory MPs the question arises, does Ed Milibland have a problem with women?
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    As for the mess in the Middle East, while were bandying blame around, let us not forget where the author of the Balfour Declaration was born.....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_James_Balfour

    A boner fidee ethnic nationalist!

    Is the Swedish posh boy an ethnic nationalist in your book? By SNP criteria he has no right to pose as a Scot.
    Any update on your 'UKIP are Nazis and racists' view? Assume you're now fully supportive of Farage's Royal Mile roasting?
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    The Muslim / Jew antipathy is not by a long chalk the key religious divide in the Middle East.

    The real underlying dynamic is the unresolved civil war within Islam. The Shia / Sunni divide is truly vicious - as always seems to be the case for intra-religious divides.

    If Israel disappeared into the sea tomorrow the region would still be pressure cooker.
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,040
    edited February 2014
    OT/ Anthropogenic Global Warming.

    Globally, Janaury 2014 was the fouth warmest January ever recorded (time series commencing 1880) according to NOAA. The globe remains anomalously warm....

    http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/2014/1

    The facts are overwhelming - AGW is happening - scientists know it, politicians of all hues know it, the general public know it.

    It's only the right-wing lunatics on here who think the earth is not warming alarmingly.

    Anyway, I'll wager anyone of the right-wing nutters who don't believe in AGW that 2014 will be in the top 5 of warmest years ever recorded. Any takers?

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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Breaking GOOD News

    ONS Retail Sales for January up 4.3% (Volume) and 4.4% (Value) when Jan 2014 compared to Jan 2013.

    Public Finances: ONS report £4.7 billion SURPLUS.

    Much more later.
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    As for the mess in the Middle East, while were bandying blame around, let us not forget where the author of the Balfour Declaration was born.....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_James_Balfour

    A boner fidee ethnic nationalist!

    Is the Swedish posh boy an ethnic nationalist in your book? By SNP criteria he has no right to pose as a Scot.
    Another straightforward lie.

    http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2013/11/9348/11
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    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Murali.. So what is your answer to the AGW problem..and please don't go into raising taxes .. the world is taxed to the point of death, real and practical suggestions only please.
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    murali_s said:

    OT/ Anthropogenic Global Warming.


    Anyway, I'll wager anyone of the right-wing nutters who don't believe in AGW that 2014 will be in the top 5 of warmest years ever recorded. Any takers?

    You do know it's perfectly possible to acknowledge the data in GW without "believing" (again, the language of faith, not science) in AGW?

    You think describing sceptics as "right wing nutters" makes your case either stronger or more persuasive?
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    murali_s said:

    OT/ Anthropogenic Global Warming.

    Globally, Janaury 2014 was the fouth warmest January ever recorded (time series commencing 1880) according to NOAA. The globe remains anomalously warm....

    http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/2014/1

    The facts are overwhelming - AGW is happening - scientists know it, politicians of all hues know it, the general public know it.

    It's only the right-wing lunatics on here who think the earth is not warming alarmingly.

    Anyway, I'll wager anyone of the right-wing nutters who don't believe in AGW that 2014 will be in the top 5 of warmest years ever recorded. Any takers?

    Meh - you have cherry picked "January" - how very convenient.

    "In a joint press conference NOAA and NASA have just released data for the global surface temperature for 2013. In summary they both show that the ‘pause’ in global surface temperature that began in 1997, according to some estimates, continues. Statistically speaking there has been no trend in global temperatures over this period."

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/01/23/newsbytes-nasa-noaa-confirm-global-temperature-standstill-continues/
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    JackW said:

    This might be a useful short term trading bet if you consider Kerry is going to pull off a significant foreign policy coup.

    However Kerry is a poor candidate - very wooden and the success of his charisma by-pass is there for all to see.

    In contrast if Hillary runs she wins and every time a poll in a battleground state shows her cruising to the Presidency the chance of a viable Democrat challenging her for the nomination diminishes from marginal to slim .... and even Slim appears to have left town.

    Todays Quinnipiac's poll in Ohio, highlighted on the last but one thread by HYUFD, shows Hillary crushing all GOP candidates by significant margins - 9-17 points.

    http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institutes-and-centers/polling-institute/ohio/release-detail?ReleaseID=2010

    Seconded.

    There is, however, a big 'if' in that first sentence. We shouldn't forget that there will undoubtedly be some opposition to any deal from both sides in the Middle East and that will produce some anti-agreement feeling in Congress who feel that Israel has been sold out. After that, we're debating detail and the public loses interest.

    There's a reason that Rod thinks that there's a convention that Secretaries of State don't run for the presidency: the fact that none has made the transition for over 150 years and very few have even tried. However, it's not a nicety; it's that the job doesn't naturally set up candidates (and, relatedly, those who do have presidential ambitions therefore don't go there).

    Hillary was very much an exception to that rule as someone who already had a national profile and would have been diminished by another eight years in the Senate, whereas serving as SoS kept her in a senior position without having to trouble with the detail of legislation. By contrast, Kerry doesn't really have that profile despite his previous, failed, run at the White House.

    Foreign policy can propel an individual to the presidency, but it's winning wars that's the route, not winning peace.
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    Are we having a thread about the poll claiming most Scots want an Eck Plan B? He could borrow one from Ed Balls. He has more plans than a cartographer.

    Tut tut. Ed Balls is on your team for this game Mark. (Or is he?)
    Stuart, Ed Balls could never be on the same team as me. That does not preclude him from sharing my views on some issues. I would rather have my economic future in John Swinney's hands than those of the 2 Eds.
    I cannot say that the lack of team spirit within Better Together surprises me. Cats in a sack would be more contented.

    Swinney is a star of the current government. A real breath of fresh air after the tedious list of Labour duds: McConnell. Mackay, Kerr and McCabe.
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    Good morning, everyone.

    Methinks someone made a slight error here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26286713

    "The total pile of government debt now stands at £1.24bn, equivalent to 74.6% of the UK's total economic output."
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited February 2014
    Public Finances

    The surplus recorded in January 2014 (£4.7 billion) was lower than in January 2013 (£6 billion after removing the effects of APF transfers).

    On a year to date basis PSNB ex (and excluding all the one offs) is reported to be £90.7 bn which is £4 bn lower than at the same time last year.

    The smaller January surplus this year may suggest lower than expected tax revenues but is more likely to be a phasing issue. January is usually the peak month for tax receipts (corporation tax installments and Self Assessed Income Tax payments are both due in January) ONS has warned though that there can be substantial drift of receipts into February and are promising a full breakdown and analysis in next month's bulletin. Another possible reason for understatement is that at this stage of reporting only 40% of the data is 'hard': the balance being estimated.

    Although there are definitely very odd things going on with the Public Finances (more on this over the weekend), falling tax receipts are among the most unlikely outturns given the growth in consumption, GDP and employment over the past nine months.

    Central Government Net Cash Requirement is much better measure of real borrowing as this figure is the main driver of gilts and TBills ssuance by the DMO (i.e. real borrowing).

    For the year to date at the end of January, NCR was £49.7 billion, £21.9 billion lower than the same period in 2012/13, when it was £71.6 billion.
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,040
    edited February 2014

    murali_s said:

    OT/ Anthropogenic Global Warming.


    Anyway, I'll wager anyone of the right-wing nutters who don't believe in AGW that 2014 will be in the top 5 of warmest years ever recorded. Any takers?

    You do know it's perfectly possible to acknowledge the data in GW without "believing" (again, the language of faith, not science) in AGW?

    You think describing sceptics as "right wing nutters" makes your case either stronger or more persuasive?
    So what do you think is causing this "GW" then?
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    Are we having a thread about the poll claiming most Scots want an Eck Plan B? He could borrow one from Ed Balls. He has more plans than a cartographer.

    Tut tut. Ed Balls is on your team for this game Mark. (Or is he?)
    Stuart, Ed Balls could never be on the same team as me. That does not preclude him from sharing my views on some issues. I would rather have my economic future in John Swinney's hands than those of the 2 Eds.
    Swinney is a star of the current government. A real breath of fresh air after the tedious list of Labour duds: McConnell. Mackay, Kerr and McCabe.
    If "No" wins could he be the Salmond replacement, Sturgeon tied too closely to the failure? Hypothetically speaking, of course.....

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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,040
    edited February 2014
    TGOHF said:

    murali_s said:

    OT/ Anthropogenic Global Warming.

    Globally, Janaury 2014 was the fouth warmest January ever recorded (time series commencing 1880) according to NOAA. The globe remains anomalously warm....

    http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/2014/1

    The facts are overwhelming - AGW is happening - scientists know it, politicians of all hues know it, the general public know it.

    It's only the right-wing lunatics on here who think the earth is not warming alarmingly.

    Anyway, I'll wager anyone of the right-wing nutters who don't believe in AGW that 2014 will be in the top 5 of warmest years ever recorded. Any takers?

    Meh - you have cherry picked "January" - how very convenient.

    "In a joint press conference NOAA and NASA have just released data for the global surface temperature for 2013. In summary they both show that the ‘pause’ in global surface temperature that began in 1997, according to some estimates, continues. Statistically speaking there has been no trend in global temperatures over this period."

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/01/23/newsbytes-nasa-noaa-confirm-global-temperature-standstill-continues/
    Meh - now you've cherry-picked 1997 as a reference point. As you may or may not know, 1998 was a very strong El-Nino year. Why don't you remove that 'outlier' from the time series and check for trends. Yes, the warming trend has been slower in the last 15 years but it's still there!
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Are we having a thread about the poll claiming most Scots want an Eck Plan B? He could borrow one from Ed Balls. He has more plans than a cartographer.

    Tut tut. Ed Balls is on your team for this game Mark. (Or is he?)
    Stuart, Ed Balls could never be on the same team as me. That does not preclude him from sharing my views on some issues. I would rather have my economic future in John Swinney's hands than those of the 2 Eds.
    Swinney is a star of the current government. A real breath of fresh air after the tedious list of Labour duds: McConnell. Mackay, Kerr and McCabe.
    If "No" wins could he be the Salmond replacement, Sturgeon tied too closely to the failure? Hypothetically speaking, of course.....

    Again??
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    BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    AveryLP said:


    Central Government Net Cash Requirement is much better measure of real borrowing

    No it isn't.

    Borrowing is running just £4bn lower than 2012-13.

    Which raises lots of interesting questions about the real underlying strength of this very Tory looking "recovery".
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    murali_s said:

    TGOHF said:

    murali_s said:

    OT/ Anthropogenic Global Warming.

    Globally, Janaury 2014 was the fouth warmest January ever recorded (time series commencing 1880) according to NOAA. The globe remains anomalously warm....

    http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/2014/1

    The facts are overwhelming - AGW is happening - scientists know it, politicians of all hues know it, the general public know it.

    It's only the right-wing lunatics on here who think the earth is not warming alarmingly.

    Anyway, I'll wager anyone of the right-wing nutters who don't believe in AGW that 2014 will be in the top 5 of warmest years ever recorded. Any takers?

    Meh - you have cherry picked "January" - how very convenient.

    "In a joint press conference NOAA and NASA have just released data for the global surface temperature for 2013. In summary they both show that the ‘pause’ in global surface temperature that began in 1997, according to some estimates, continues. Statistically speaking there has been no trend in global temperatures over this period."

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/01/23/newsbytes-nasa-noaa-confirm-global-temperature-standstill-continues/
    Meh - now you've cherry-picked 1997 as a reference point. As you may or may not know, 1998 was a very strong El-Nino year. Why don't you remove that 'outlier' from the time series and check for trends. Yes, the warming trend has been slower in the last 15 years but it's still there!
    Looking at those NOAA maps its a curious spot of ill fortune that the warmer bits are in the middle of the sea an the colder bits are where people live - and presumably there are more weather stations...

    Bad luck for humans eh ?
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    40/1 on John Kerry is an enterprising bet, but not for the faint-hearted. Just because it has the potential to look silly doesn't mean it's a bad bet. Our host has made money out of enough of these for me to respect this.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Lennon said:

    Is there anywhere to bet on Kerry to be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize? If he is successful he is more deserving than most recent recipients, and close failure could easily be rewarded as well.

    If Obama and the EU can win it then my dead cat is "more deserving than most recent recipients".
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Farage: Bring it on!

    .@Nigel_Farage says yes to a debate on the EU. Will Cameron and Miliband step up to the plate? pic.twitter.com/QsKTI8RMvz

    — UKIP (@UKIP) February 21, 2014
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    So NickvNigel will be going ahead, but OGH is unhappy with the terms of Ladbrokes' bet on it (using the voodoo poll after by LBC). New thread incoming, I suspect.
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    Mike do you have any other examples of 50/1 American presidential bets you've won?

    I can't see it myself (He's like Mitt Romney without the personality) and he's the only Democratic Party Candidate to lose the popular vote in the last six Presidential Elections but I've still had a punt.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    murali_s said:

    OT/ Anthropogenic Global Warming.

    Globally, Janaury 2014 was the fouth warmest January ever recorded (time series commencing 1880) according to NOAA. The globe remains anomalously warm....

    http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/2014/1

    The facts are overwhelming - AGW is happening - scientists know it, politicians of all hues know it, the general public know it.

    It's only the right-wing lunatics on here who think the earth is not warming alarmingly.

    Anyway, I'll wager anyone of the right-wing nutters who don't believe in AGW that 2014 will be in the top 5 of warmest years ever recorded. Any takers?

    As someone who was called an "extreme right winger" on here the other night, I assume I'm included here. I'll take that bet.

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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    Off-topic: the floods.

    Compare and contrast:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26284047
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/30/dredging-rivers-floods-somerset-levels-david-cameron-farmers

    Also as I said passim, Lord Smith is hopeless. And it looks as though he's going to be put in charge of newspaper regulation. He should just admit he's hopeless and walk away from his many jobs.

    (shakes his head and mutters)

    Perhaps that explains why the press criticism of him has been muted?
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    RandomRandom Posts: 107
    murali_s said:

    TGOHF said:

    murali_s said:

    OT/ Anthropogenic Global Warming.

    Globally, Janaury 2014 was the fouth warmest January ever recorded (time series commencing 1880) according to NOAA. The globe remains anomalously warm....

    http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/2014/1

    The facts are overwhelming - AGW is happening - scientists know it, politicians of all hues know it, the general public know it.

    It's only the right-wing lunatics on here who think the earth is not warming alarmingly.

    Anyway, I'll wager anyone of the right-wing nutters who don't believe in AGW that 2014 will be in the top 5 of warmest years ever recorded. Any takers?

    Meh - you have cherry picked "January" - how very convenient.

    "In a joint press conference NOAA and NASA have just released data for the global surface temperature for 2013. In summary they both show that the ‘pause’ in global surface temperature that began in 1997, according to some estimates, continues. Statistically speaking there has been no trend in global temperatures over this period."

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/01/23/newsbytes-nasa-noaa-confirm-global-temperature-standstill-continues/
    Meh - now you've cherry-picked 1997 as a reference point. As you may or may not know, 1998 was a very strong El-Nino year. Why don't you remove that 'outlier' from the time series and check for trends. Yes, the warming trend has been slower in the last 15 years but it's still there!
    Seriously? Your argument is "if you remove everything that doesn't confirm to the trend (let's call it an "outlier" instead...) then the trend is obvious"? That isn't science - that's religion. It is however typical of the global warming cultists - if the facts don't fit the theory, then the facts have to change:-/
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited February 2014

    Good morning, everyone.

    Methinks someone made a slight error here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26286713

    "The total pile of government debt now stands at £1.24bn, equivalent to 74.6% of the UK's total economic output."

    Billions and trillions getting muddled MD!

    It is easy to do after thirteen years of Labour folly.

    The actual Public Sector Net Debt is 136.7% of GDP or £2,215,583 million (£2.2 trillion). This is down from the end 2009-10 151.7% ratio George inherited from Gordon.

    The PSND ex figures (which you quoted) are reported as £1,239,606 or 73.8% of GDP in the ONS bulletin release this morning (see Table PSF6B), so a slight (but not significant) difference in the ratio to that you have quoted.
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    antifrank said:

    40/1 on John Kerry is an enterprising bet, but not for the faint-hearted. Just because it has the potential to look silly doesn't mean it's a bad bet. Our host has made money out of enough of these for me to respect this.

    One thing to bear in mind is that he would need an Israeli-Palestinian peace plan to be reached early enough for him to throw his hat into the nomination battle.

    The Iowa caucus kicks off the formal process at the start of 2016, but how early in 2015 would Kerry need a deal secured so that it wouldn't look like he was abandoning the process halfway through to have another tilt at the Presidency?
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    Mr. T, astrology probably gets things right sometimes. Something being always wrong is hard to find. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
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    @PopulusPolls: New Populus VI: Lab 38 (=); Cons 32 (-1); LD 9 (-1); UKIP 13 (=); Oth 8 (+1) Tables: http://t.co/kY1Ktuvvsj
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    Neil said:

    Rod will explode - having previously told us how Hillary cant win because ex-SoSs cant run for the Presidency the thought of two of them going for it could overwhelm him completely.

    He lives in the realms of pure fantasy that guy - thinks the Holocaust didn't happen and that Obama wasn't born in the States.
    I have never stated that Obama wasn't born in the USA, and I merely reject the application of a trademark coined in the 1970s to describe the complex and tragic events in Europe in the 1940s...
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    Mr. Crosby, just on the term itself, I'm near certain Theodore Dodge (writing about half a century prior to the concusion of WWII) used it to describe Caesar's actions towards a Germanic tribe with whom he was conducting peaceful negotiations (until he slaughtered them all, including women and children).
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    antifrank said:

    40/1 on John Kerry is an enterprising bet, but not for the faint-hearted. Just because it has the potential to look silly doesn't mean it's a bad bet. Our host has made money out of enough of these for me to respect this.

    One thing to bear in mind is that he would need an Israeli-Palestinian peace plan to be reached early enough for him to throw his hat into the nomination battle.

    The Iowa caucus kicks off the formal process at the start of 2016, but how early in 2015 would Kerry need a deal secured so that it wouldn't look like he was abandoning the process halfway through to have another tilt at the Presidency?
    You're overthinking this. All you need for this bet to make money is for Hillary Clinton to announce that she's not standing or for some event to take place that makes her not look like the inevitable winner. In those circumstances, every other candidate's odds will come in. And there will be a vacancy for a heavyweight candidate with a national profile, meaning that the odds of such candidates will shorten disproportionately.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,988

    Off-topic: the floods.

    Compare and contrast:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26284047
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/30/dredging-rivers-floods-somerset-levels-david-cameron-farmers

    Also as I said passim, Lord Smith is hopeless. And it looks as though he's going to be put in charge of newspaper regulation. He should just admit he's hopeless and walk away from his many jobs.

    (shakes his head and mutters)

    Perhaps that explains why the press criticism of him has been muted?
    That looks a distinct possibility, and Private Eye has certainly made that connection.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,112
    AveryLP said:


    Billions and trillions getting muddled MD!

    It is easy to do after thirteen years of Labour folly.

    One of my real pet peeves is people who get their millions and billions and trillions mixed up. Laziness of the highest order. Either that or a mind that just can't register really big numbers. In either case, the person is in the wrong job (Labour wannabe Chancellors take note...).

    Working in the energy sector, I regularly used trillions to talk of gas reserves (x trillion cubic feet of gas). Indeed, the gas reserves of Qatar can be talked of in terms of point something of a quadrillion cubic feet.


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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    Mr. Crosby, just on the term itself, I'm near certain Theodore Dodge (writing about half a century prior to the concusion of WWII) used it to describe Caesar's actions towards a Germanic tribe with whom he was conducting peaceful negotiations (until he slaughtered them all, including women and children).

    And how is that relevant to what I said?
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited February 2014
    BenM said:

    AveryLP said:


    Central Government Net Cash Requirement is much better measure of real borrowing

    No it isn't.

    Borrowing is running just £4bn lower than 2012-13.

    Which raises lots of interesting questions about the real underlying strength of this very Tory looking "recovery".
    Now don't be silly, Ben.

    The Treasury remit to the Debt Management Office for Gilt and Treasury Bill Issuance is dependent upon the Central Government Net Cash Requirement (CGNCR). At the time of the Autumn Forecast, Osborne reduced the planned amount of gilt/tbill issuance by £15.5 billion over the final quarter of this fiscal year on the basis of the first nine months CGNCR outturns. In other words, the cash position of the government was so good three quarters of the way into the fiscal year that Osborne was able to cancel 10% of the DMO's net borrowing plans (net of needs to roll over existing borrowing as gilts and bills mature)

    You could argue that the wider measure of Public Sector Net Cash Requirement (PSNCR) is more properly the driver of actual borrowing but due to the interventions into the banking sector the PSNCR has consistently delivered surpluses so can be mostly disregarded for the purposes of calculating the cash needed to be raised in the markets.

    As for the "very Tory looking "recovery" you mention, Ben, my advice is to keep in touch over the weekend. You are guaranteed to be shocked at what is truly going on!

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    @PopulusPolls: New Populus VI: Lab 38 (=); Cons 32 (-1); LD 9 (-1); UKIP 13 (=); Oth 8 (+1) Tables: http://t.co/kY1Ktuvvsj

    Scottish split: Lab 35%, SNP 32%, Con 16%, LD 12%, UKIP 3%

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    Mr. Crosby, your earlier post suggested the term 'holocaust' dated from the 1970s (or was, at least, popularised then). I was just pointing out it had been used significantly earlier.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,112
    AveryLP: "As for the "very Tory looking "recovery" you mention, Ben, my advice is to keep in touch over the weekend. You are guaranteed to be shocked at what is truly going on!"

    Ooh you little tease!
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    F1: Interesting observation reported by the BBC's Jennie Gow:
    "I've been chatting to Williams technical boss Pat Symonds and he has some illuminating views on why Renault are in trouble at the moment. 'After the engine freeze on the V8s a few years ago they did downsize Renault Sport in Viry,' Symonds said. 'I think they are paying the price for that now because when the new engine requirement came along, they didn't have the people, they didn't have the infrastructure to really exploit it. And I suspect they probably didn't have the budget as well. But there are some good people there. I know them very well and I have the utmost respect for them, so there is no complacency on our side.' We'll put Symonds's views to Renault engine chief Rob White when we speak to him later on."
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    AveryLP said:


    As for the "very Tory looking "recovery" you mention, Ben, my advice is to keep in touch over the weekend. You are guaranteed to be shocked at what is truly going on!

    My prediction is for a surge in yellow box production.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    Mr. Crosby, your earlier post suggested the term 'holocaust' dated from the 1970s (or was, at least, popularised then). I was just pointing out it had been used significantly earlier.

    In application to the events of the 1940s, it first appeared in the 1970s.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Mike, you do realise that "50/50" is Israeli for "It's not going to happen but I want the other side to veto it"?
This discussion has been closed.