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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The ten seats most likely to be affected by immigration

SystemSystem Posts: 11,008
edited May 2014 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The ten seats most likely to be affected by immigration

My intention is to highlight the very big gap between responses to questions on what are the big issues facing the country and what issues impact most on you and your family. Thus the last time that YouGov asked this 52% included it in their top three responses on the former question but only 17% raised it with the latter.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,930
    First. And Oldham East etc.?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,138
    FPT
    I may be turning into an old fuddy duddy but I still prefer women without beards.

    According to the ST yesterday the BoE is going to increase its growth forecast again this week to 3.5% and implicitly suggest that the first interest rate rises will be in Q1 of 2015. This is the longest run of increases in growth forecasts since 1997. I still think that Q4 of this year for the first modest rise is more likely and politically easier as well.

    Many economists seem to have assumed that the UK economy would slow down a bit in the second half of this year. It appears the Bank does not agree. We will also get yet more good news on unemployment this week as well.

    Is it really conceivable that the great British public will throw out a government which has produced such stunning results in time for the election and bring back those responsible for the mess? As the economic results move from good to excellent surely some credit will accrue? There is not a lot of evidence of this so far but the Labour vote is starting to soften which gives some hope.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,138
    On topic I really can't help with this but I would make one observation that might be worth some debate: I can pretty much guarantee than none of your 10 seats will be in Scotland.

    Immigration really is not an issue up here at all. Even in the central belt there is nothing like the sort of pressures and congestion that I see in my trips south. In this respect at least we are indeed a different country.
  • Options
    Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    One good, if partial, pointer will be the London Borough elections. I expect these to produce a very mixed picture.
  • Options
    JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    [Is it really conceivable that the great British public will throw out a government which has produced such stunning results in time for the election and bring back those responsible for the mess?]

    Yes
  • Options
    Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    JBriskin said:

    [Is it really conceivable that the great British public will throw out a government which has produced such stunning results in time for the election and bring back those responsible for the mess?]

    Yes

    Because the "stunning results" have benefitted so few. Whether it is still possible, in to-day's globalised economy, to spread them out in the way that social democracy (and indeed Tory "wets") sought to do in the second half of the last century is another question, of course.

  • Options
    JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    *anecdote alert*

    When I've temped and a pole got there before me I didn't mind (at least I had got in and no-one has ever accused them of incompetence). When he happened to sit beside me at lunch time and someone accused him of quisling-ing I must say it was eye opening.
  • Options
    JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Innocent Abroad - Can we not allow the "stunning results" time to filter through? It really does feel like MTV attention span generation time.
  • Options
    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Morning all and on SKY News they have an "exclusive Euro poll" which is giving the numbers
    UKIP 31, Labour 25, Tories 23, LibDems 9. Is this a poll we have already seen elsewhere and if not can TSE/OGH find out about it?
    Supposedly done by YouGov

    There must be a fairly strong possibility of Labour being 3rd next week.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Two London seats where it is likely to be important from opposite ends of the spectrum: Brent Central and Eltham.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,322
    DavidL said:



    Is it really conceivable that the great British public will throw out a government which has produced such stunning results in time for the election and bring back those responsible for the mess? As the economic results move from good to excellent surely some credit will accrue? There is not a lot of evidence of this so far but the Labour vote is starting to soften which gives some hope.

    Labour's vote, like the other parties, is being gnawed at by UKIP, but that's nothing to do with any economic success. Leaving aside the bits we won't agree on, the problem is that economic revival is fuelling the "Tories only care about the rich" view, since most people don't feel that things are getting much easier for them, yet apparently the economy is doing better, so who is benefiting? "Ah, it's the super-rich who got that tax cut." It's easier to bear austerity if it's seen to be essential and shared. And a great deal of the austerity cuts have been punted into the next Parliament.

    A more sophisticated point is that it's not clear that the recovery is being achieved sustainably, as evidenced by the balance of payments: arguably, it's principally built on credit and consumer borrowing.


  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,138

    JBriskin said:

    [Is it really conceivable that the great British public will throw out a government which has produced such stunning results in time for the election and bring back those responsible for the mess?]

    Yes

    Because the "stunning results" have benefitted so few. Whether it is still possible, in to-day's globalised economy, to spread them out in the way that social democracy (and indeed Tory "wets") sought to do in the second half of the last century is another question, of course.

    I think the fact that the early elements of the recovery did not in fact benefit the man in the street whose wages were, on average, still falling in real terms is the best explanation of the lack of traction to date. There may be more than another million in employment but that does not really help the 30m who already had a job.

    If so there is still hope for the tories because this year will see increases in real earnings along with an increase in the value of most peoples' houses making them feel better off. As a country we still need to rebalance away from consumption and increase investment and production which means there is less of the growth available for joe public than would otherwise be the case but this year at least there should be some jam for all.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    After a weekend's hiatus, I've put up a new post this morning:

    http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/deciding-next-election-1-west-midlands.html

    Today's deals with the sad decline of Birmingham.
  • Options
    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    The Luton seats might be interesting as I believe a lot of the 'new' migrants are coming in to that already diverse area.
  • Options
    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Why haven't we got a thread for Limerick Day? I blame the Labour government.

    On this day in One Nine Nine Four
    John Smith didn't breathe any more
    His heart stopped and failed
    His friends cried and wailed
    His loss is incredibly sore.

    A footballer named Gareth Bale
    Joined the team in Madrid with the Réal
    He's incredibly strong
    With his legs lean and long
    He's a very beautiful male.

    A young Jewish actor called Dan
    Is a gorgeous and sexy young man;
    His masculine stubble
    Enhances by double
    The beauty and niceness of Dan.

    A film made with Daniel and Dane
    About killing a poet again
    Was frenzied and arty
    And depicted a party
    Where they both were almost insane.

    Prince Louis is handsome and lean
    And when he was only nineteen
    He became a new dad
    Because he's a lad
    Who is strong and sexy and keen.
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    JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Balance of payments is so passé Nick. I would mention 10K tax free but presumably you already know.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    @another_richard FPT

    It's a classic negotiating play.

    Cameron is posing as the guy who wants to be helpful - wants the UK to stay in - but he's got to convince his boss (the voters).

    He's setting it up to make it easy for his European counterparts to help him.

    Creates potential for much sucking of teeth, shaking of heads, and then "well, I could try, but I don't think it'll pass muster. Perhaps if you could just do A & B as well..."
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,138

    DavidL said:



    Is it really conceivable that the great British public will throw out a government which has produced such stunning results in time for the election and bring back those responsible for the mess? As the economic results move from good to excellent surely some credit will accrue? There is not a lot of evidence of this so far but the Labour vote is starting to soften which gives some hope.

    Labour's vote, like the other parties, is being gnawed at by UKIP, but that's nothing to do with any economic success. Leaving aside the bits we won't agree on, the problem is that economic revival is fuelling the "Tories only care about the rich" view, since most people don't feel that things are getting much easier for them, yet apparently the economy is doing better, so who is benefiting? "Ah, it's the super-rich who got that tax cut." It's easier to bear austerity if it's seen to be essential and shared. And a great deal of the austerity cuts have been punted into the next Parliament.

    A more sophisticated point is that it's not clear that the recovery is being achieved sustainably, as evidenced by the balance of payments: arguably, it's principally built on credit and consumer borrowing.


    Trade figures are volatile but there is a clear trend that our deficit is at least reducing and the last figures were particularly good. The fact we are achieving this despite growing faster than most of our trading partners is something of an achievement and, unfortunately, reflects the increase in competitiveness achieved by the cuts in real wages.

    This growth, after an uncertain beginning, is now looking very healthy with manufacturing benefiting significantly. And, as you know, the super rich paraded in all their glory yesterday in the ST are paying more tax and a greater share of the tax than ever. Labour are going to need some new tunes as this year progresses.
  • Options
    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Immigration is not an issue in Scotland where the minority community has always been far more integrated. We also have had a long established group of communities from Central and Eastern Europe as a throwback from the end of WWII and Stalin's policy of murdering those who returned.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    JBriskin said:

    *anecdote alert*

    When I've temped and a pole got there before me I didn't mind (at least I had got in and no-one has ever accused them of incompetence). When he happened to sit beside me at lunch time and someone accused him of quisling-ing I must say it was eye opening.

    Presumably because of the misuse of the word "Quisling"?
  • Options
    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    If you want to know which constituencies will have results affected by immigration (or any other single issue, ceteris paribus, bla bla bla) then the question is not XYZ but the relative change in XYZ between 2010 and 2015, compared with the national average. My amateur uninformed guess is that the most noticeable change has happened in places like Lincolnshire & East Anglia, so Boston & Skegness and bla bla bla.
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    JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Charles - Yeah, things like that I'm sure.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818
    FPT
    Scott_P said:

    » show previous quotes
    So this isn't praise for Putin?

    Alex Salmond has revealed his admiration for "certain aspects" of Vladimir Putin's leadership and praised the way Russia's national pride has been restored.

    FFS.

    No criticism of the Sainted Eck will be tolerated. The Nats are getting truly scary.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/10792044/Alex-Salmond-I-admire-certain-aspects-of-Vladimir-Putins-leadership.html

    Scott, you really are thick. I admire certain aspects of your posting , ie constantly posting other people's twits, however I think you are a real plonker.

    Can your pea brain take that in and realise that I am not really praising you there.
  • Options
    Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:



    Is it really conceivable that the great British public will throw out a government which has produced such stunning results in time for the election and bring back those responsible for the mess? As the economic results move from good to excellent surely some credit will accrue? There is not a lot of evidence of this so far but the Labour vote is starting to soften which gives some hope.

    Labour's vote, like the other parties, is being gnawed at by UKIP, but that's nothing to do with any economic success. Leaving aside the bits we won't agree on, the problem is that economic revival is fuelling the "Tories only care about the rich" view, since most people don't feel that things are getting much easier for them, yet apparently the economy is doing better, so who is benefiting? "Ah, it's the super-rich who got that tax cut." It's easier to bear austerity if it's seen to be essential and shared. And a great deal of the austerity cuts have been punted into the next Parliament.

    A more sophisticated point is that it's not clear that the recovery is being achieved sustainably, as evidenced by the balance of payments: arguably, it's principally built on credit and consumer borrowing.


    Trade figures are volatile but there is a clear trend that our deficit is at least reducing and the last figures were particularly good. The fact we are achieving this despite growing faster than most of our trading partners is something of an achievement and, unfortunately, reflects the increase in competitiveness achieved by the cuts in real wages.

    This growth, after an uncertain beginning, is now looking very healthy with manufacturing benefiting significantly. And, as you know, the super rich paraded in all their glory yesterday in the ST are paying more tax and a greater share of the tax than ever. Labour are going to need some new tunes as this year progresses.
    A LibDem told me that that's what his Party have achieved in this Parliament. I take it he's wrong, and that the Tories should indeed take the credit? (I'm only asking...)

  • Options
    MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    On immigration, here's a BBC page on data from the census:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20672090

    Although obviously when immigration gets to a certain point (e.g. in London) there just aren't enough Ukip voters!
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818
    FPT


    The campaign for Scottish independence is being funded almost solely by two lottery winners, and has received far fewer small donations than the No campaign.

    Yes Scotland finally revealed its accounts following months of sustained pressure and speculation that it was struggling to secure financial support. They show that Colin and Chris Weir, who won £161 million in a Euromillions draw, have donated £2.5 million since April last year, on top of another £1  million previously. It means that the couple, from Ayrshire, have supplied the campaign with almost 80 per cent of its cash.

    The books also show that Yes Scotland is struggling to secure as many small donations as might be expected, given its perceived strong grassroots support.

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/article4086555.ece

    Usual rubbish from Scott , only able to promote lies and London propaganda.

    If you look at the crowdfunding by YES groups they are miles ahead of Better Together. Even if you look at the donations you will see people give more to YES and if you add that they only accept money from people who CAN vote in the referendum you may realise that most of the NO money comes from outside Scotland. Therefore they are doing poorly from a pool of 65 million compared to the YES pool of 5 million.
    Finally no criminals from outside Scotland or dirty money can be donated to YES, NO will accept anything no questions asked.
  • Options
    MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    Lord Ashcroft: My polling plan this month – and as the next election approaches

    http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2014/05/lord-ashcroft-my-polling-plan-this-month-and-as-the-next-election-approaches.html

    Including weekly telephone polls!
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    OGH - Bristol South?
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,322
    O/T: Does anyone knows anything about Vietnamese health care? I have to go there tomorrow for work for 4 days, and irritatingly have got what seems to be tonsillitis (painful to swallow on one side). It's been hanging around for a few days so I'm now on an antibiotic and I expect it'll clear up. But if it got worse I'd potentially not be able to eat and drink and might need attention. Presumably the hotel will know a doctor, but any particular tips?
  • Options
    No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 3,804

    Immigration is not an issue in Scotland where the minority community has always been far more integrated. We also have had a long established group of communities from Central and Eastern Europe as a throwback from the end of WWII and Stalin's policy of murdering those who returned.

    Scotland is still too busy with sectarianism to have got round to racism.
  • Options
    Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    Why is there so little interest in betting on the Newark by-election? Only £3,365 matched so far on Betfair.

    Is it really going to be a Tory shoo-in? If so, Farage and Miliband ought to be concerned.

    Best prices - Newark by-election

    Con 8/13 (Lad)
    Lab 4/1 (Hills)
    UKIP 11/2 (PP)
    LD 250/1 (various)
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,973
    malcolmg said:


    If you look at the crowdfunding by YES groups they are miles ahead of Better Together.

    Very true.
    I believe a site which we cannot name has just passed its Indiegogo funding target of £2500 in less than 24 hrs. I'm sure James (if he wasn't banned) would like to thank all the PBers who still peruse his site for their no doubt substantial donations.
  • Options
    Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294

    Immigration is not an issue in Scotland where the minority community has always been far more integrated. We also have had a long established group of communities from Central and Eastern Europe as a throwback from the end of WWII and Stalin's policy of murdering those who returned.

    Scotland is still too busy with sectarianism to have got round to racism.
    Indeed. I left the place out of my analysis of political cleavage yesterday so as not to set the laddies off, but it is true...

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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    So two fatties that dont work and got money from a British institution are bankrolling the YES campaign - how apt.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    Banned by Baldyfred !
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,973
    TGOHF said:

    So two fatties that dont work and got money from a British institution are bankrolling the YES campaign - how apt.

    So an employer of war criminals and sanction buster who doesn't live in Scotland is bankrolling the NO campaign - how apt.

  • Options
    Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    TGOHF said:

    So two fatties that dont work and got money from a British institution are bankrolling the YES campaign - how apt.

    No case? Abuse plaintiff's attorney...

    (No, I don't know the origin of the phrase either - I'd be interested to find out, though)

  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,051
    DavidL said:

    JBriskin said:

    [Is it really conceivable that the great British public will throw out a government which has produced such stunning results in time for the election and bring back those responsible for the mess?]

    Yes

    Because the "stunning results" have benefitted so few. Whether it is still possible, in to-day's globalised economy, to spread them out in the way that social democracy (and indeed Tory "wets") sought to do in the second half of the last century is another question, of course.

    I think the fact that the early elements of the recovery did not in fact benefit the man in the street whose wages were, on average, still falling in real terms is the best explanation of the lack of traction to date. There may be more than another million in employment but that does not really help the 30m who already had a job.

    If so there is still hope for the tories because this year will see increases in real earnings along with an increase in the value of most peoples' houses making them feel better off. As a country we still need to rebalance away from consumption and increase investment and production which means there is less of the growth available for joe public than would otherwise be the case but this year at least there should be some jam for all.
    This government's performance on debt, productivity, industrial output and the trade balance certainly is stunning - stunningly bad.

    It should be remembered that Osborne will miss his targets on growth, debt, unemployment and inflation that he made in his first budget.

    And the government babbling on about growth wont help them if the benefits that brings are concentrated in groups other than swing voters.

    The point in real earnings increasing is a good one. Compare how real earnings were increasing in the month before previous elections:

    Average annual earnings increases:

    1983 May 8.9%
    1987 May 8.6%
    1992 Mar 9.1%
    1997 Apr 4.0%

    RPI annual increase

    1983 May 3.7%
    1987 May 4.1%
    1992 Mar 4.0%
    1997 Apr 2.4%

    Notice how well people were doing before the 1992 election, I think it helps explain the 'surprise' Conservative victory. Likewise notice how little real earnings were increasing by in 1997.

    The economy was in excellent shape in 1997, certainly far better than in 1992, but people weren't benefiting and so the Conservatives didn't benefit.

    Now remember that currently RPI is higher than annual earnings increases.

    So who's getting the benefit of this 'growth' we keep getting told about ?

    If swing voters don't think they are then they're going to feel cheated.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    The Page Hall area of Sheffield has had even Nick Clegg commenting on Roma migration.

    Is it in Sheffield Central? or Sheffield Hillsborough and Brightside? Also an interesting area to see if UKIP really are making inroads into a historically Labour area.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pulpstar said:

    Banned by Baldyfred !

    I've been put on the naughty step by Stan James. They haven't exactly banned me, but they don't seem to want to take my money.
  • Options
    volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078

    O/T: Does anyone knows anything about Vietnamese health care? I have to go there tomorrow for work for 4 days, and irritatingly have got what seems to be tonsillitis (painful to swallow on one side). It's been hanging around for a few days so I'm now on an antibiotic and I expect it'll clear up. But if it got worse I'd potentially not be able to eat and drink and might need attention. Presumably the hotel will know a doctor, but any particular tips?

    My son is just back accompanied by an amoebic worm-he remembered not to drink the water but forgot about the ice in drinks.He said his treatment over there was good.

  • Options
    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    edited May 2014

    James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers

    Opinium poll for Mail today has Euro elections too close to call: Ukip 28 Lab 27 Con 23 Lib Dem 8
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921

    DavidL said:

    JBriskin said:

    [Is it really conceivable that the great British public will throw out a government which has produced such stunning results in time for the election and bring back those responsible for the mess?]

    Yes

    Because the "stunning results" have benefitted so few. Whether it is still possible, in to-day's globalised economy, to spread them out in the way that social democracy (and indeed Tory "wets") sought to do in the second half of the last century is another question, of course.

    I think the fact that the early elements of the recovery did not in fact benefit the man in the street whose wages were, on average, still falling in real terms is the best explanation of the lack of traction to date. There may be more than another million in employment but that does not really help the 30m who already had a job.

    If so there is still hope for the tories because this year will see increases in real earnings along with an increase in the value of most peoples' houses making them feel better off. As a country we still need to rebalance away from consumption and increase investment and production which means there is less of the growth available for joe public than would otherwise be the case but this year at least there should be some jam for all.
    (snip)

    Average annual earnings increases:

    1983 May 8.9%
    1987 May 8.6%
    1992 Mar 9.1%
    1997 Apr 4.0%

    RPI annual increase

    1983 May 3.7%
    1987 May 4.1%
    1992 Mar 4.0%
    1997 Apr 2.4%

    (snip)
    Care to fill in the equivalent data for 1979, 2001, 2005 and 2010?
  • Options
    JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    [So who's getting the benefit of this 'growth' we keep getting told about ?]

    Yeah, let's just get rid of this GDP thing the news sometimes talks about and vote green.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    malcolmg said:


    Usual rubbish from Scott , only able to promote lies and London propaganda.

    These are the official figures submitted by the YeSNP.

    Why do you think they are lying to you?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    TGOHF said:

    So two fatties that dont work and got money from a British institution are bankrolling the YES campaign - how apt.

    European, actually.
  • Options
    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    Millsy said:

    Lord Ashcroft: My polling plan this month – and as the next election approaches

    http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2014/05/lord-ashcroft-my-polling-plan-this-month-and-as-the-next-election-approaches.html

    Including weekly telephone polls!

    Massive good news there - from this week, a new weekly GE election poll from Lord A
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,600

    Immigration is not an issue in Scotland where the minority community has always been far more integrated. We also have had a long established group of communities from Central and Eastern Europe as a throwback from the end of WWII and Stalin's policy of murdering those who returned.

    Scotland is still too busy with sectarianism to have got round to racism.
    No, Easterross is quite right. (There were also Polish and Italian incomers before the war in specific areas - e.g. coal mining and catering respectively.)

    In any case, that sectarianism DID arise in large part from (Irish) immigration in the first place. It is still a phenomenon in the West Central Belt but is not popular in general. Indeed, its decline is one aspect of the changes in Scottish society since the 1950s which led also to the collapse of the Tory vote, with which one form of sectarianism was strongly associated at the time. The name of the party, the Conservative and Unionist Party, is indeed a fossil relic of that era, as the Unionist refers to union with Ireland. But I certainly don't get any sense that the current Tories are sectarian in that sense (except insofar as someone of that mindset would probably be anti-indy and vote for the Tories for want of anything more specific).
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,930

    TGOHF said:

    So two fatties that dont work and got money from a British institution are bankrolling the YES campaign - how apt.

    No case? Abuse plaintiff's attorney...

    (No, I don't know the origin of the phrase either - I'd be interested to find out, though)

    According to brainy quote.com
    "When you have no basis for an argument, abuse the plaintiff."

    Marcus Tullius Cicero


    Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/marcustull156291.html#qmGDkyOHL4ArKMKJ.99
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,970
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Richard, worth recalling there was a eurozone sovereign debt crisis. However, the emphasis on growth over all else by the media and, following that, the political class, does seem unhealthy.

    Mr. Antifrank, I suspect they're more concerned about you taking their money.
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    Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294

    TGOHF said:

    So two fatties that dont work and got money from a British institution are bankrolling the YES campaign - how apt.

    No case? Abuse plaintiff's attorney...

    (No, I don't know the origin of the phrase either - I'd be interested to find out, though)

    According to brainy quote.com
    "When you have no basis for an argument, abuse the plaintiff."

    Marcus Tullius Cicero


    Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/marcustull156291.html#qmGDkyOHL4ArKMKJ.99
    Bless you.

    It does sound like that old scoundrel, come to think of it...

  • Options
    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    O/T: Does anyone knows anything about Vietnamese health care? I have to go there tomorrow for work for 4 days, and irritatingly have got what seems to be tonsillitis (painful to swallow on one side). It's been hanging around for a few days so I'm now on an antibiotic and I expect it'll clear up. But if it got worse I'd potentially not be able to eat and drink and might need attention. Presumably the hotel will know a doctor, but any particular tips?

    Make sure it isn't a quinsy before you travel.
  • Options
    JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    We can boast about first wave poles and Italians all we want Carnyx - I'm sure all those in England will find the Scottish race debate rather bizarre.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,600
    TGOHF said:

    So two fatties that dont work and got money from a British institution are bankrolling the YES campaign - how apt.

    The husband (at least) was IIRC a professional cameraman.

    Would you rather he kept on working and deprived someone else of a job?

    What would you have said if they had given money to the no campaign?


  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921
    Carnyx said:



    TGOHF said:

    So two fatties that dont work and got money from a British institution are bankrolling the YES campaign - how apt.

    The husband (at least) was IIRC a professional cameraman.

    Would you rather he kept on working and deprived someone else of a job?

    What would you have said if they had given money to the no campaign?
    I dread to think what the yes campaign would be saying about them if they'd donated to no.

    As it is, I'm all for people donating to political parties and/or campaigns. If they believe in what the party, or the campaign, is doing, then let them give their money. It's why I was totally unfussed by J.K. Rowling giving a million to the Labour Party before the last election.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,299

    The Page Hall area of Sheffield has had even Nick Clegg commenting on Roma migration.

    Is it in Sheffield Central? or Sheffield Hillsborough and Brightside? Also an interesting area to see if UKIP really are making inroads into a historically Labour area.

    Page Hall Road is Brightside and Hillsborough.

    But the impact and worry is being felt all across Sheffield.

    Won't have much impact. If Lab were reduced to 50 MPs, Brightside and Hillsborough would be one of the 50.

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,579
    From that Unionist Bag of Shite objective journal of record:

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/lottery-winning-weirs-donate-25m-more-to-the-yes-campaign.24190350

    [Yes Scotland] Smaller donations - classed as those under £7500 - were more numerous and more generous than in the previous year, with more than 11,000 people giving a total of £473,000.

    The pro-Union Better Together campaign has declared donations of just £2.8m up to December 2013.
    ......... 17,400 people gave less than £7500, for a total of £341,600.

    Better Together's largest donor to date is Donald Houston, owner of the Ardnamurchan Estate and the Adelphi distillery, who has given a total of £600,000 personally and via companies.


    So Better Together small donors are more numerous, if parsimonious.......

    I has no idea Donald Houston worked with war criminals - perhaps TUD could clarify?
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,973

    It's why I was totally unfussed by J.K. Rowling giving a million to the Labour Party before the last election.

    I'm sure that's a big relief to her.

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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924
    edited May 2014

    The economy was in excellent shape in 1997, certainly far better than in 1992, but people weren't benefiting and so the Conservatives didn't benefit.

    People feel best just before the crash.

    Early on in economic recoveries, there is plenty of labour market slack, and therefore wage inflation is very muted.

    Towards the end of an economic expansion cycle, the labour market is tight, and firms must pay up to attract and retain staff.

    Basically, just as in 1997, the Labour Party (should they be elected in 2015) will get the benefit from the voters of the hard graft done in the preceding five years.

    (Mrs Thatcher probably only got re-elected, after having done four years of hard work between 1979 and 1983 because of the SDP and the Falklands War. D'you think the Ukraine could turn it around for Dave?)
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    volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Great Yarmouth seems to fit Mike's criteria as a suggestion.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,299
    edited May 2014
    antifrank said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Banned by Baldyfred !

    I've been put on the naughty step by Stan James. They haven't exactly banned me, but they don't seem to want to take my money.
    I think Stan James are the only bookie that suspends/bans your account if they think you've been using them for arbitrage.

    The ones that get my goat is Victor.

    I wish in their adverts they'd tell people they close your account if you win a few bets.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453


    I believe a site which we cannot name has just passed its Indiegogo funding target of £2500

    So crowd sourcing raised 0.1% of the funding compared to a single Lottery win donation.

    Wow, that really does refute the claim in the article that the Lottery winners are funding 80% of the campaign.

    Oh, wait...

    I know maths is not a strong point for the YeSNP
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,600
    Scott_P said:


    I believe a site which we cannot name has just passed its Indiegogo funding target of £2500

    So crowd sourcing raised 0.1% of the funding compared to a single Lottery win donation.

    Wow, that really does refute the claim in the article that the Lottery winners are funding 80% of the campaign.

    Oh, wait...

    I know maths is not a strong point for the YeSNP
    Are you not conflating one group with another? The site in question is - I assume - distinct from the main Yes Campaign. As is the SNP. Your use of the term YesSNP does not help clarity of debate.

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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921

    It's why I was totally unfussed by J.K. Rowling giving a million to the Labour Party before the last election.

    I'm sure that's a big relief to her.
    It should be of absolutely no bother to her at all. It was just a well-known example of someone giving a substantial sum to a political party. And one, sad to say, some objected to.

    However, I should have added that the individual should get no direct gain from any donation.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,970
    Mr. Eagles, betting ads seem universally awful.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited May 2014
    It's rumoured that Greater Harpenden has had an immigrant influx of a single oligarch from Bedford and that has touched a nerve.

    Apparently this weird and exotic outsider has a bearded wife, poses in an organic knitted seaweed thong and produces Austrian p0rn films classics such as "Rise like A Penis"

    Well, I ask you it's all very well in the fleshpots of Bedford but the denizens of North Hertfordshire haven't seen such wide eyed and brazen behaviour since the Mayors wife flashed a shapely ankle at the Town VE Day celebrations in May 1945.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Carnyx said:


    Are you not conflating one group with another?

    Tell that to TUD who posted it in support of the original claim that YES were better at crowd sourcing than Better Together, which of course is not what the official figures submitted by YES show
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,973
    edited May 2014
    Scott_P said:


    I believe a site which we cannot name has just passed its Indiegogo funding target of £2500

    So crowd sourcing raised 0.1% of the funding compared to a single Lottery win donation.

    Wow, that really does refute the claim in the article that the Lottery winners are funding 80% of the campaign.

    Oh, wait...

    I know maths is not a strong point for the YeSNP
    In what sense is it supposed to be a refutation of your tedious regurgitations?
    As it happens crowdfunding has raised over £300k for Yes causes. What's the total for No?

    Sorry to give you language and maths lessons this early in the morning.

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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,290
    edited May 2014
    @Pulpstar/Antifrank

    In my experience, Betfred are the worst of the big firms when it comes to closing accounts or restricting you to footling amounts as soon as you show any sign of knowing what you are doing. Stan James, a much smaller outfit, are bad but in a slightly different way; they are reluctant to take large bets generally.

    I have noticed an apparent change in attitude from other firms though. There does now seem to be a greater tolerance of the more professional punter. I wonder if this is related to the recent Parliamentary scrutiny of bookmaker activities? I appreciate it was mainly focused on the iniquitous 'slot-machines' in betting shops, but I suspect that words have been said about their cartel-like practices generally.

    Maybe the wiser bods at Ladbrokes, William Hill and Betvictor understand that it's not a good idea to sail too close to the wind.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,322

    O/T: Does anyone knows anything about Vietnamese health care? I have to go there tomorrow for work for 4 days, and irritatingly have got what seems to be tonsillitis (painful to swallow on one side). It's been hanging around for a few days so I'm now on an antibiotic and I expect it'll clear up. But if it got worse I'd potentially not be able to eat and drink and might need attention. Presumably the hotel will know a doctor, but any particular tips?

    Make sure it isn't a quinsy before you travel.
    Thanks, Moniker.

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,579

    Scott_P said:


    I believe a site which we cannot name has just passed its Indiegogo funding target of £2500

    So crowd sourcing raised 0.1% of the funding compared to a single Lottery win donation.

    Wow, that really does refute the claim in the article that the Lottery winners are funding 80% of the campaign.

    Oh, wait...

    I know maths is not a strong point for the YeSNP
    In what sense is it supposed to be a refutation of your tedious regurgitations?
    As it happens crowdfunding has raised over £300k for Yes causes. What's the total for No?

    Sorry to give you language and maths lessons this early in the morning.

    Going to clarify your "war criminals" comment? Wouldn't want to get OGH into trouble.....

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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,051

    DavidL said:

    JBriskin said:

    [Is it really conceivable that the great British public will throw out a government which has produced such stunning results in time for the election and bring back those responsible for the mess?]

    Yes

    Because the "stunning results" have benefitted so few. Whether it is still possible, in to-day's globalised economy, to spread them out in the way that social democracy (and indeed Tory "wets") sought to do in the second half of the last century is another question, of course.

    I think the fact that the early elements of the recovery did not in fact benefit the man in the street whose wages were, on average, still falling in real terms is the best explanation of the lack of traction to date. There may be more than another million in employment but that does not really help the 30m who already had a job.

    If so there is still hope for the tories because this year will see increases in real earnings along with an increase in the value of most peoples' houses making them feel better off. As a country we still need to rebalance away from consumption and increase investment and production which means there is less of the growth available for joe public than would otherwise be the case but this year at least there should be some jam for all.
    (snip)

    Average annual earnings increases:

    1983 May 8.9%
    1987 May 8.6%
    1992 Mar 9.1%
    1997 Apr 4.0%

    RPI annual increase

    1983 May 3.7%
    1987 May 4.1%
    1992 Mar 4.0%
    1997 Apr 2.4%

    (snip)
    Care to fill in the equivalent data for 1979, 2001, 2005 and 2010?
    1979
    Earnings +15.9%
    RPI +10.1%

    Real earnings rising fast - perhaps connected with all those pay strikes - and helps explain why Labour lost so few votes compared with 1974 despite the disasters of the previous five years.

    2001
    Earnings +5.8%
    RPI +1.8%

    Solid growth in real earnings underpins easy Labour reelection

    2005
    Earnings +4.4%
    RPI +3.2%

    Weak earnings growth and big fall in Labour vote

    2010
    Earnings +0.4% but had been +6.7% the month before, a very variable year.
    RPI +5.3%

    Ouch! Labour vote disintegrates. Public sector earnings though were still increasing at over 3% during the recession and leading up to the general election, which helps to explain how well Labour did among them.

    Of course each election varies and there are numerous factors but real earnings growth is something the average voter personally experiences much more than most economic stats.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453


    In what sense is it supposed to be a refutation of your tedious regurgitations?

    Let's recap

    80% of YES funding comes from a single source.

    Various incensed Nats; "But crowd Sourcing!" "Yes, crowd sourcing!"

    Now, "crowd sourcing is not related to the original claim about campaign funding"

    Ok, you win, crowd sourcing is not related to campaign funding, almost all of which for YES comes from a single source.

    Peace and harmony are restored to PB...
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Good Morning @Conchita_the_Punter
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,051

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Richard, worth recalling there was a eurozone sovereign debt crisis. However, the emphasis on growth over all else by the media and, following that, the political class, does seem unhealthy.

    Mr. Antifrank, I suspect they're more concerned about you taking their money.

    If you compare the period from 1967 to 1992 there was almost always a crisis happening.

    Its the period of 1993 to 2007 which was the exception in its paucity of crises.

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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,290
    @JackW

    And madainn mhath to you too, young Jack.

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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,973

    Scott_P said:


    I believe a site which we cannot name has just passed its Indiegogo funding target of £2500

    So crowd sourcing raised 0.1% of the funding compared to a single Lottery win donation.

    Wow, that really does refute the claim in the article that the Lottery winners are funding 80% of the campaign.

    Oh, wait...

    I know maths is not a strong point for the YeSNP
    In what sense is it supposed to be a refutation of your tedious regurgitations?
    As it happens crowdfunding has raised over £300k for Yes causes. What's the total for No?

    Sorry to give you language and maths lessons this early in the morning.

    Going to clarify your "war criminals" comment? Wouldn't want to get OGH into trouble.....

    Ok, for clarity, Bettertogether's SECOND largest donor (formerly largest) is an employer of war criminals and sanction buster.

    BBC:

    'In 2007, Vitol was heavily fined by a New York court after admitting making payments to the national oil company in Saddam Hussein's Iraq which were outside the UN's oil for food programme.

    Vitol is also reported to have paid $1m to the notorious Serbian paramilitary Arkan as part of an oil deal in the 1990s. The company said it had not acted illegally. '

    http://tinyurl.com/cgj2ca8

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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Latest ARSE 2015 General Election Projection Countdown :

    1 day 1 minute 1 second
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,970
    Mr. Richard, that doesn't mean a crisis such as the eurozone didn't have a dramatic impact upon the UK's prosperity at the time or its prospects in the future.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,579

    Scott_P said:


    I believe a site which we cannot name has just passed its Indiegogo funding target of £2500

    So crowd sourcing raised 0.1% of the funding compared to a single Lottery win donation.

    Wow, that really does refute the claim in the article that the Lottery winners are funding 80% of the campaign.

    Oh, wait...

    I know maths is not a strong point for the YeSNP
    In what sense is it supposed to be a refutation of your tedious regurgitations?
    As it happens crowdfunding has raised over £300k for Yes causes. What's the total for No?

    Sorry to give you language and maths lessons this early in the morning.

    Going to clarify your "war criminals" comment? Wouldn't want to get OGH into trouble.....

    Ok, for clarity, Bettertogether's SECOND largest donor (formerly largest) is an employer of war criminals and sanction buster.

    You missed a bit:

    Ms Baillie also pointed out that Mr Taylor had made important investments in the Harris tweed industry on the Western Isles, a constituency represented at Holyrood and Westminster by the SNP.

    "Is the first minister equally suggesting that Mr Taylor should disinvest from Harris tweed?" she said. "I don't think he's said that today."

    Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Willie Rennie also defended the use of Mr Taylor's money.

    He said: "If it's good enough for Harris tweed, it should be good enough for Better Together."

  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,299
    Off topic.

    Today is a horrible day to be a Liverpool fan in Manchester
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,299
    @MSmithsonPB: New SkyNews YouGov Euros poll
    Ukip 31
    LAB 25
    CON 23
    LD 9
    http://t.co/n57mF1HnaM
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    @JackW

    And madainn mhath to you too, young Jack.

    Even before your inevitable triumph I sold all shares in Wilkinson Sword .... even Mrs JackW is thinking of sporting a full set !!

    Titters .... She's away .....


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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,290
    @JackW

    Cheeky boy!

    You know the only beard I have is the betting kind. Now off you go and work on your ARSE.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Off topic.

    Today is a horrible day to be a Liverpool fan in Manchester

    Why ? United finished 7th !
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    JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Can MalcolmG please translate Carnyx's Scottish sectarianism paragraph for me into English.

    Thanks
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,249

    DavidL said:



    Is it really conceivable that the great British public will throw out a government which has produced such stunning results in time for the election and bring back those responsible for the mess? As the economic results move from good to excellent surely some credit will accrue? There is not a lot of evidence of this so far but the Labour vote is starting to soften which gives some hope.


    A more sophisticated point is that it's not clear that the recovery is being achieved sustainably, as evidenced by the balance of payments: arguably, it's principally built on credit and consumer borrowing.


    Did that quote, from a 1997-2010 Lab MP, no less, actually happen?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924

    It's why I was totally unfussed by J.K. Rowling giving a million to the Labour Party before the last election.

    I'm sure that's a big relief to her.
    It should be of absolutely no bother to her at all. It was just a well-known example of someone giving a substantial sum to a political party. And one, sad to say, some objected to.

    However, I should have added that the individual should get no direct gain from any donation.
    I heard she's been lobbying for measures to protect indigenous authors. Apparently, a flood of cheap literature, written by foreigners, is depressing the wage rates of British authors.

    Foreign books must therefore be banned.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,973

    Scott_P said:


    I believe a site which we cannot name has just passed its Indiegogo funding target of £2500

    So crowd sourcing raised 0.1% of the funding compared to a single Lottery win donation.

    Wow, that really does refute the claim in the article that the Lottery winners are funding 80% of the campaign.

    Oh, wait...

    I know maths is not a strong point for the YeSNP
    In what sense is it supposed to be a refutation of your tedious regurgitations?
    As it happens crowdfunding has raised over £300k for Yes causes. What's the total for No?

    Sorry to give you language and maths lessons this early in the morning.

    Going to clarify your "war criminals" comment? Wouldn't want to get OGH into trouble.....

    Ok, for clarity, Bettertogether's SECOND largest donor (formerly largest) is an employer of war criminals and sanction buster.

    You missed a bit:

    Ms Baillie also pointed out that Mr Taylor had made important investments in the Harris tweed industry on the Western Isles, a constituency represented at Holyrood and Westminster by the SNP.

    "Is the first minister equally suggesting that Mr Taylor should disinvest from Harris tweed?" she said. "I don't think he's said that today."

    Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Willie Rennie also defended the use of Mr Taylor's money.

    He said: "If it's good enough for Harris tweed, it should be good enough for Better Together."

    Are you suggesting the Scottish Government should stick a moralising oar into private business investments?

    Personally I'd tell him to stick his tweed money where the sun don't shine, but I don't have to sit at a loom in a drafty shed on the West coast of Harris in January.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    JackW said:

    @JackW

    And madainn mhath to you too, young Jack.

    Even before your inevitable triumph I sold all shares in Wilkinson Sword .... even Mrs JackW is thinking of sporting a full set !!

    Titters .... She's away .....


    She's not away in Stockholm is she?! :')
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,579
    What YeSNP don't tell you about Ian Taylor;

    Ian Taylor, an oil-industry executive, [spent] £2.5m ($3.7m) on buying and re-equipping [an idle mill] to resurrect bespoke manufacturing. It was tough going at first, says Ian Mackenzie, chief executive of Harris Tweed Hebrides. From a low of just 455,000 metres made in 2009, production has climbed as the firm (which reckons it accounted for 85% of the 1m metres of cloth made in 2012) won customers ranging from Chanel to J. Crew, an American retailer. “We have about 600 patterns now,” he says, showing off traditional green and brown tweeds reflecting the island landscape outside his window and more vivid reds and purples for urban fashionistas.

    http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21573552-old-industry-goes-back-basics-loom-and-bust

    Was he an "employer of war criminals and sanctions buster" when spending FIVE times as much in an SNP constituency?

    Have they called for disinvestment in Harris Tweed? He's only responsible for 85% of it......
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    @JackW

    Cheeky boy!

    You know the only beard I have is the betting kind. Now off you go and work on your ARSE.

    Apparently Russia and Belorussia blocked Conchita's live performance and according to some Russian politicians western Europe is full of decadence.

    I do hope so !!

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    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    JackW said:

    Latest ARSE 2015 General Election Projection Countdown :

    1 day 1 minute 1 second

    Either I am psychic or the forecast has been leaked.

    It will forecast a result similar to 2010 and conclude that Ed Miliband will never be Prime Minister.

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    Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    DavidL said:

    On topic I really can't help with this but I would make one observation that might be worth some debate: I can pretty much guarantee than none of your 10 seats will be in Scotland.

    Immigration really is not an issue up here at all. Even in the central belt there is nothing like the sort of pressures and congestion that I see in my trips south. In this respect at least we are indeed a different country.

    Although I'd guess it would become an issue in southern England in the wake of a Yes vote?
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    @JackW

    And madainn mhath to you too, young Jack.

    Even before your inevitable triumph I sold all shares in Wilkinson Sword .... even Mrs JackW is thinking of sporting a full set !!

    Titters .... She's away .....


    She's not away in Stockholm is she?! :')
    Chortle ....

    No .... or back in Austria either !!

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    JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    As a fan of the site I think it's great that OGH is going to be at the House of Commons.

    Do we think Cameron still reads it or was that all just a bit of nonsense spin??
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,299
    JBriskin said:

    As a fan of the site I think it's great that OGH is going to be at the House of Commons.

    Do we think Cameron still reads it or was that all just a bit of nonsense spin??

    He reads it.

    My claim to fame is one of my threads really annoyed him

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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,290
    @JackW

    Sweetie, nobody has ever blocked one of my live performances.....
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,581
    More news on a bunch or militant secessionists looking to hold a dodgy referendum because they want to join the neighbouring republic...

    http://yarmresidentsassociation.org/yarm-4-yorkshire-chance-vote-future-27th-may-2014/

    They should take everything south of the Tees with them!
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,970
    Mr. Eagles, it wasn't a Eurovision thread, was it?
This discussion has been closed.