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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Tories take the lead in ICM Euros poll and my 56-1 bet

SystemSystem Posts: 11,015
edited May 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Tories take the lead in ICM Euros poll and my 56-1 bet is starting to look good

Just a year ago I placed a bet at 10/1 that the Tories would win most votes in next week’s Euro elections – a position that has found little support on PB or elsewhere.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @Scrapheap FPT

    Many Tories have been gracious and actually quite reserved - but yes, there are a few collectors' items from the usual suspects! :)
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    ICM Euros UNS

    Con 22 (-4)
    UKIP 21 (+8)
    Lab 19 (+6)
    Green 5 (+3)
    LDs 0 (-11)
    SNP 2 (nc)
    Plaid 1 (nc)
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Huzzah! I think I put a little on at 10/1 when Mr. Dickson mentioned it.

    I still reckon that UKIP will win, though.

    If the Lib Dems get beaten by the Greens that would be horrendous for them.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Strangely there was also a massive fall off in the Labour vote in the 2009 Euros from the start of May to polling day. Almost halved.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_election,_2009_(United_Kingdom)#Opinion_polls
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    JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    [If the Lib Dems get beaten by the Greens that would be horrendous for them.]

    No it won't. They/We've been managing this for months now. Wake us up 6 months before GE15
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,364
    Labour's lead in the polls collapsing like the Carthaginians at Zama.
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    Is it too late for Dan H to replace his mum.... next LotO odds for Hodges?

    Guido Fawkes‏@GuidoFawkes·2 mins
    That smell drifting across SW1 is the Labour Party collectively sensing in their guts @DPJHodges could be right. 10 days and counting...
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    If Labour come third (again) in the Euros, surely panic will break out in Moribund's motley crew?
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    BobaFett said:

    @Scrapheap FPT

    Many Tories have been gracious and actually quite reserved - but yes, there are a few collectors' items from the usual suspects! :)

    You're doing that weird labelling thing again.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,364
    I hope tonight's yougov shows a stonking Lab lead.

    Any more polls like this and Ed's going to get replaced.
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    I just don't believe Labour will come 3rd... it would be like Spurs qualifying for the Champs League.

    Nice to dream of but can't happen.
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    @Avery

    Previous thread - good red wine to go with squirrel.
    I'd recommend a dray red wine....

    ( I 'll get me coat...)
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,404

    I hope tonight's yougov shows a stonking Lab lead.

    Any more polls like this and Ed's going to get replaced.

    It's too late to replace Ed surely?
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    Labour's lead in the polls collapsing like the Carthaginians at Zama.

    Surley you mean like a drunken Caesar in the King of Bithynias bedchamber ?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,364
    ToryJim said:

    I hope tonight's yougov shows a stonking Lab lead.

    Any more polls like this and Ed's going to get replaced.

    It's too late to replace Ed surely?
    He's safe after the conferences.

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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302

    I hope tonight's yougov shows a stonking Lab lead.

    Any more polls like this and Ed's going to get replaced.

    Labour don't do regicide.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    I hope tonight's yougov shows a stonking Lab lead.

    Any more polls like this and Ed's going to get replaced.

    No I think it's too late for that, no matter how bad things get.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. Eagles, don't forget that Labour tried and utterly buggered up axing Brown. If they couldn't do it on 19% they won't now.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453


    Labour don't do regicide.

    True, but the manoeuvring, briefing and arse-covering can begin in earnest
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited May 2014
    AndyJS said:

    I hope tonight's yougov shows a stonking Lab lead.

    Any more polls like this and Ed's going to get replaced.

    No I think it's too late for that, no matter how bad things get.
    Who could he be replaced with a year before an election? The usual suspects will all be fighting not to stand.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,364

    I hope tonight's yougov shows a stonking Lab lead.

    Any more polls like this and Ed's going to get replaced.

    Labour don't do regicide.
    That was before Ed committeed fratricide

    (Not actual fratricide, metaphorical)
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,404

    I hope tonight's yougov shows a stonking Lab lead.

    Any more polls like this and Ed's going to get replaced.

    Labour don't do regicide.
    Sure they do, they just knife successful leaders.
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    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    edited May 2014

    I hope tonight's yougov shows a stonking Lab lead.

    Any more polls like this and Ed's going to get replaced.

    Labour don't do regicide.
    That was before Ed committeed fratricide

    (Not actual fratricide, metaphorical)
    Can I just say "defenestration" is a good word. It would also distinguish between regicide in the Tory sense and the back stabbing of Ed's selection.

    Edit: Before "Ed committeed fratricide" - he's incapable of doing anything himself!
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,807
    Well, things have not necessarily developed to Labour's advantage.

    The Tories should be grateful that UKIP exists, as the party can get working class
    Labour votes that would never vote Conservative.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    The finger of blame for last week’s clusterf**k is being pointed at Labour’s election coordinator Douglas Alexander

    Alexander’s enemies are wondering out loud why he got the top election job after losing two campaigns in Scotland, coordinating Labour’s loss in 2010 and then running David Miliband’s doomed leadership campaign. “Presumably he must have won his seat selection vote once” whispers a catty colleague.
    http://order-order.com/2014/05/12/knives-out-for-wee-dougie-as-insiders-prey-for-axe-swing/
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,364
    Remember Gordon Brown had Mandelson as his Praetorian Guard.

    Who has Ed got? David Axelrod?

    Think about that for a moment.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    I hope tonight's yougov shows a stonking Lab lead.

    Any more polls like this and Ed's going to get replaced.

    No I think it's too late for that, no matter how bad things get.
    Who could he be replaced with a year before an election? The usual suspects will all be fighting not to stand.
    In Australia they get rid of leaders almost up until election day itself if they're a drag on the party in question.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Sky bigging up UKIP, describing Barking (of all places) as one of its 'heartlands.' Vox populi all say they're voting UKIP, or considering it...
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Remember Gordon Brown had Mandelson as his Praetorian Guard.

    Who has Ed got? David Axelrod?

    Think about that for a moment.

    It's not too late for Ed to call up Mandelson again. A big reveal at Conference maybe?
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited May 2014

    I hope tonight's yougov shows a stonking Lab lead.

    Any more polls like this and Ed's going to get replaced.

    Labour don't do regicide.
    Axelrod will have to earn his corn by advising EdM to stand down for the good of the party.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302
    ToryJim said:

    I hope tonight's yougov shows a stonking Lab lead.

    Any more polls like this and Ed's going to get replaced.

    Labour don't do regicide.
    Sure they do, they just knife successful leaders.
    Blair in 2006? That was saying boo to a goose. He was on the way out anyway, just a question of if it was 2007/2008/2009, and had stood electorally in 2005 on that platform.

    You want real ruthlessness? Tory Party. Margaret Thatcher. 1990.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. Eagles, worth noting Praetorians were mostly a protection racket who killed emperors about as often as they protected them.

    Varangians were mercenary, but actually did their bloody job.

    I believe Miliband has Chuka Umunna.

    Despite that, Cain is safe until after the election.
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059

    Remember Gordon Brown had Mandelson as his Praetorian Guard.

    Who has Ed got? David Axelrod?

    Think about that for a moment.

    There's always pugnacious Tom Watso.......oh, hang on.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,364
    I'm assuming Ed is going to use his intellectual self confidence to deal with these polls?
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,404

    Remember Gordon Brown had Mandelson as his Praetorian Guard.

    Who has Ed got? David Axelrod?

    Think about that for a moment.

    I think what Mr Watcher says rings true nobody in Labour will want to oust Ed to take one for the team and none of them are good enough to be a game changer.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    RodCrosby said:

    Sky bigging up UKIP, describing Barking (of all places) as one of its 'heartlands.' Vox populi all say they're voting UKIP, or considering it...

    In 2009 the BNP came second to Labour in the European elections with nearly 7,000 votes. Inevitably, some of their support will go to UKIP this time around.
    http://news.sky.com/story/1260008/barking-and-dagenham-in-ukips-sights
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2014
    RodCrosby said:

    Sky bigging up UKIP, describing Barking (of all places) as one of its 'heartlands.' Vox populi all say they're voting UKIP, or considering it...

    2010: BNP 17.8%, UKIP 3.4%

    2014: at least one UKIP candidate standing in all 17 wards unlike the Tories, LDs, and BNP who have collapsed to just 4 candidates.
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    Evening all,
    Just caught up with the English Democrats Euro PEB.
    It's the sort of thing that you would expect to find on an EDL site
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    I'm standing with Owen in solidarity. Big shout out for him and Polly.

    Boo to the Tories.

    Tim Montgomerie‏@TimMontgomerie·2 mins
    @OwenJones84 you and the Toynbee tendency have helped turn Labour into a party imprisoned by public sector good, private sector bad thinking
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    dodradedodrade Posts: 595
    I'd take any poll with the Greens at 10% with a large pinch of salt. No methodology changes at ICM to explain the large swings?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. JS, I've said before that Labour are sheep and the Conservatives wolves. This means Labour is far more on-message and disciplined, which is great under a reasonable or good leader and terrible if you're led by a madman called Gordon.

    The Conservatives don't stand for the nonsense of someone thoroughly inept, but are also unafraid to axe someone who's ok, and less disciplined generally.

    Lib Dems are like students who have taken too much powerful cannabis. Mostly mellow and ultra-relaxed, but every now and then they stab without warning.
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    JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380

    Remember Gordon Brown had Mandelson as his Praetorian Guard.

    Who has Ed got? David Axelrod?

    Think about that for a moment.

    OK. Yvette is running the party. Is this Correct?? All I have is my Kay Burley and PBdotC to go by.

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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Why is nobody talking about Ed's big announcement today?

    Labour are going to talk about the NHS for the next year. Not Stafford, obviously. Ideally not Wales, but the NHS is a winner...
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    There are as many new threads this evening as there are polls showing crossover to the Tories!

    FPT

    DavidL said:

    I don't know. You wait two years for a Tory lead in a poll then two come along at once.

    The approval figures are fascinating. Net ratings:

    Cameron +2
    Osborne +5
    Farage -8
    Clegg -21
    Miliband -25

    Yep. That's right: Osborne highest, both Tories in positive territory, and Miliband below Clegg (top idea, that Labour PPB).

    It'd be fascinating to see what's happened to the LD-Labour switchers. The assumption has to be that they're mostly still on-side, if leaking slightly; it's the previous core vote that's leaving. If so, that'd put Labour down in the low- to mid-twenties without the Red Liberals - as bad a score as during Brown's dog days.

    I think that is the key. It has taken about 15 months but the message has got through at last. Osborne has delivered. Big time.

    And Labour have nothing useful to say.

    Osborne has delivered..........

    Another debt fuelled housing/construction boom, and explicitly covered it with taxpayer guarantees. Wey hey hey.
    Three questions:

    1. What percentage of the the GDP growth rate over the past year is accounted for by household investments in residential property?

    2. What is the growth in total net lending by the banks secured on dwellings over the last year?

    3. What is the total amount of lending on dwellings secured by government guarantee under Help-to-Buy schemes and what is its proportion to total net lending on dwellings?

    Once you have answered these three questions, I suggest your reconsider your claims that the housing/construction boom is "debt fuelled" and "explicitly covered by taxpayer guarantees".

    Let me know if you are having difficulties with the numbers.
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,404
    RodCrosby said:

    Sky bigging up UKIP, describing Barking (of all places) as one of its 'heartlands.' Vox populi all say they're voting UKIP, or considering it...

    Well Barking was a hotbed of BNP activity...
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I wouldn't bet against Owen Jones being the next Labour PM.
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Scott_P said:

    Remember Gordon Brown had Mandelson as his Praetorian Guard.

    Who has Ed got? David Axelrod?

    Think about that for a moment.

    It's not too late for Ed to call up Mandelson again. A big reveal at Conference maybe?
    Mandelson was appointed Chairman of Lazard International. Doesn't really fit in with Labour's 'Get the Bankers' policies.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    dodrade said:

    I'd take any poll with the Greens at 10% with a large pinch of salt.

    Why? 8.1% last time, 10% is hardly outlandish.


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    Flockers_pbFlockers_pb Posts: 204

    Remember Gordon Brown had Mandelson as his Praetorian Guard.

    Who has Ed got? David Axelrod?

    Think about that for a moment.

    True, but then Ed does not have a credible rival. Ed Balls is at least as culpable for the malaise at the heart of Labour's leadership as Miliband, Cooper has been anonymous since tipped for leadership and is in any event inextricably linked to Balls, Burnham doesn't have enough support within the party and the rest of the front bench is lightweight. It's simply not going to happen. Labour made their decision. It wasn't a bad one, in the sense that David Miliband did not deserve the leadership (see Mike Smithson, passim ad nuaseum) and there was no better candidate. But Ed Miliband manifestly was not, is not and will not for some time be up to the task of leading a political party, let alone the Government. And voters are reacting accordingly, notwithstanding the manifest unattractiveness of the other options. Labour can't and won't change now, without conceding what is still, in a quirky way, a winnable election in 2015.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Lake Garda - 10th November 2016

    JNN can exclusively reveal the whereabouts of ex PB Oligarch and former Bedford Betting Billionaire, Mike Smithson. Sources close to the disappeared OGH indicate that he has decamped to the former Gianni Versace villa on the shores of Lake Garda.

    It appears Mr Smithson purchased the property from the small change from his winning bet that Nigel Farage would become the next President of the United States after defeating Vladamir Putin in the Electoral College by 537:1. The winning wager came through after a recount in Maine gave Putin one electoral vote from the state.

    This most recent betting coup comes on the heels of other notable coups not least that of predicting the SNP winning the UK 2015 General Election after the alliance of Alec Salmond and Putin annexing England following the tied vote in the Scottish referendum.

    You heard it here first ....
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    The irony is that most blues are now hoping for a decent Labour lead with Yougov tonight.

    We don't want all our Christmasses to come together!!
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    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    edited May 2014
    Scott_P said:

    Why is nobody talking about Ed's big announcement today?

    Labour are going to talk about the NHS for the next year. Not Stafford, obviously. Ideally not Wales, but the NHS is a winner...

    Not sure about "cost of living crisis" but there's no way Labour can cede the economic ground to the Tories (nor do I think they will). They have to drive a stake between the Tories plan to help the country in general (read bankers, chums, etc.) and Labour's plan to help each and every family as ends in themselves. Something like that anyway.

    P.s. Ed, if you're reading, I am a Tory but for £300,000 I'm yours.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302

    Remember Gordon Brown had Mandelson as his Praetorian Guard.

    Who has Ed got? David Axelrod?

    Think about that for a moment.

    No-one should underestimate Mandleson's skill. An extremely effective and politically shrewd operator. He combines intellectual positioning, messaging and organisation into one potent weapon. No doubt in my mind he saved Labour twenty seats and cost the Tories a slim majority in 2010.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2014
    Peter Kellner:

    "Ed Miliband – the UK backs his policies, but not the man
    The Labour leader is unable to convince swing voters, but he's not the only party head grappling with foreign takeovers":


    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/12/ed-miliband-uk-backs-policies-but-not-the-man?CMP=twt_gu
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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    RodCrosby said:

    Sky bigging up UKIP, describing Barking (of all places) as one of its 'heartlands.' Vox populi all say they're voting UKIP, or considering it...

    Oh God no, that means we'll have Billy Bragg out telling us all how great diversity is in Barking. He loves it so much he moved to the all white hamlet of Burton Bradstock.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    How can anyone say this guy isn't a natural winner?

    @Ed_Miliband
    I’m in Manchester to talk about our plans for a stronger, better NHS. A member of my team is going to tweet while I speak, stay tuned...
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Grandiose said:

    I hope tonight's yougov shows a stonking Lab lead.

    Any more polls like this and Ed's going to get replaced.

    Labour don't do regicide.
    That was before Ed committeed fratricide

    (Not actual fratricide, metaphorical)
    Can I just say "defenestration" is a good word. It would also distinguish between regicide in the Tory sense and the back stabbing of Ed's selection.

    Edit: Before "Ed committeed fratricide" - he's incapable of doing anything himself!
    Defenestration is a no-no word on PB.

    It has been banned by Carola.
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,404
    Scott_P said:

    Why is nobody talking about Ed's big announcement today?

    Labour are going to talk about the NHS for the next year. Not Stafford, obviously. Ideally not Wales, but the NHS is a winner...

    That to me is more a sign of their shrinking horizons. Labour shrieking about the NHS only works as part of a wider agenda alone it's going to be trumped by other issues. It's like Dems screaming Roe vs Wade etc
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    edited May 2014
    AveryLP said:

    There are as many new threads this evening as there are polls showing crossover to the Tories!

    FPT

    DavidL said:

    I don't know. You wait two years for a Tory lead in a poll then two come along at once.

    The approval figures are fascinating. Net ratings:

    Cameron +2
    Osborne +5
    Farage -8
    Clegg -21
    Miliband -25

    Yep. That's right: Osborne highest, both Tories in positive territory, and Miliband below Clegg (top idea, that Labour PPB).

    It'd be fascinating to see what's happened to the LD-Labour switchers. The assumption has to be that they're mostly still on-side, if leaking slightly; it's the previous core vote that's leaving. If so, that'd put Labour down in the low- to mid-twenties without the Red Liberals - as bad a score as during Brown's dog days.

    I think that is the key. It has taken about 15 months but the message has got through at last. Osborne has delivered. Big time.

    And Labour have nothing useful to say.

    Osborne has delivered..........

    Another debt fuelled housing/construction boom, and explicitly covered it with taxpayer guarantees. Wey hey hey.
    Three questions:

    1. What percentage of the the GDP growth rate over the past year is accounted for by household investments in residential property?

    2. What is the growth in total net lending by the banks secured on dwellings over the last year?

    3. What is the total amount of lending on dwellings secured by government guarantee under Help-to-Buy schemes and what is its proportion to total net lending on dwellings?

    Once you have answered these three questions, I suggest your reconsider your claims that the housing/construction boom is "debt fuelled" and "explicitly covered by taxpayer guarantees".

    Let me know if you are having difficulties with the numbers.

    1. 78%
    2. 345%
    3. 1298%

    Quite obvious really.

    Government Investment in economic rebalancing: -34%
    Support for businesses who aren't estate agents : -56%
    Lending to businesses which impact the BoP : £ 3.47

    Osborne inaction.

  • Options
    toontoontoontoon Posts: 14
    I've come back from Northern Ireland and Ireland after watching the Giro d'Italia for three days. While most people here in GB wouldn't know there is an election on, you can't say that over in both parts of the Emerald Isle where every lamp post, traffic light and anything else they can use has posters from different parties attached to them.

    I live in the Thurrock constituency, considering it is one of the most marginal seats in the country there has up to this European Election campaign there has been little campaigning. However in this European election campaign the Tories have started to get up to speed. At the start of May letters were sent to every person on the electoral roll with the Tories 5 pledges. Today I came back and saw that the Tories had gone and posted a newspaper to all addresses. What surprised me was that the newspaper was not addressed to Thurrock issues but to the town where I live. There was even a picture of 30 Tory MP's outside of the local McDonalds along with pledges what the MP would do to solve local issues.

    One interesting thing in the newspaper was a claim that Labour are trying to merge the borough with Barking and Dagenham. Would love to see some proof of that.

    This amount of canvassing is really standing out compared to the other parties. UKIP have gone for roadside advertising and have leafleted once (generic leaflet). Labour or the Lib Dems have been absent and nothing has been heard from them.

    If the Tories continue to hone this local advertising and campaigning then it might start to help them in May 2015. Labour really need to hit the ground running. Because yet again in this election campaign they have not bothered to do any electioneering in this constituency.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    That MD, is the most perceptive summary of the parties that I have seen in a long time.

    Dare I ask what the kippers are?

    Mr. JS, I've said before that Labour are sheep and the Conservatives wolves. This means Labour is far more on-message and disciplined, which is great under a reasonable or good leader and terrible if you're led by a madman called Gordon.

    The Conservatives don't stand for the nonsense of someone thoroughly inept, but are also unafraid to axe someone who's ok, and less disciplined generally.

    Lib Dems are like students who have taken too much powerful cannabis. Mostly mellow and ultra-relaxed, but every now and then they stab without warning.

    Mr. JS, I've said before that Labour are sheep and the Conservatives wolves. This means Labour is far more on-message and disciplined, which is great under a reasonable or good leader and terrible if you're led by a madman called Gordon.

    The Conservatives don't stand for the nonsense of someone thoroughly inept, but are also unafraid to axe someone who's ok, and less disciplined generally.

    Lib Dems are like students who have taken too much powerful cannabis. Mostly mellow and ultra-relaxed, but every now and then they stab without warning.

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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453


    Mandelson was appointed Chairman of Lazard International. Doesn't really fit in with Labour's 'Get the Bankers' policies.

    Not true. Ed doesn't hate bankers. He was promoting the Co-Op until...

    Oh, wait...

    A new model of ethical banking, as shown by my good friend and colleague Peter.

    No problem!
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    isamisam Posts: 40,914
    RodCrosby said:

    Sky bigging up UKIP, describing Barking (of all places) as one of its 'heartlands.' Vox populi all say they're voting UKIP, or considering it...

    Hardly surprising... the place has turned from being quite a nice area 30 years ago to an absolute hell hole where everyone wants to leave

    Lefties might call it a "vibrant, diverse, multicultural community" I suppose

    "Thankfully, this is no longer a debate about race, as it was when the British National Party was stirring up the protest vote in these parts. In 2006, the BNP even won 12 seats on the council. Today, it has completely disappeared. The debate, now, is about the system.

    Among white and black, Left and Right, old and young, one subject on which pretty much everyone in Barking agrees is that current levels of immigration (from Europe and elsewhere) are unsustainable. At one high street cafe, a group of pensioners are huddled round the ashtrays on a pavement table and making their cups of tea last for hours.

    They all have their gripes with the council and the Government about the ‘invasion’ of foreigners who, they believe, are clogging the housing lists, surgery queues and buses. A blind couple with a pair of guide dogs complain bitterly that many local ‘foreign’ shopkeepers refuse them entry ‘because they’re scared of dogs’.

    They all preface every remark by saying that are not racist, but merely feel forgotten. One of the gang is retired NHS switchboard operator James Beckles, 81. ‘I just don’t agree with this European thing,’ he says. ‘It’s putting too much pressure. There should be controls.’ James is an immigrant himself, having moved to Britain from Guyana in 1952.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2597454/We-Residents-deprived-borough-speak-predicted-Britain-need-Manchester-absorb-immigration.html#ixzz31X8KlScc
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
    "




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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,970
    Isn't it not that the LibDems have slumped, but that Green appear to have made a considerable and dramatic advance? In fact the LibDems VI has improved
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    How will the left-wing Scottish electorate react to a UKIP/Con/Lab situation?
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    AndyJS said:

    How will the left-wing Scottish electorate react to a UKIP/Con/Lab situation?

    They'll vote No.
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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    FPT
    shadsy said:

    All very exciting - a lot of prices are going to be very different tomorrow morning.

    It's a bit odd though - it's not as if anything has really happened in the last week to cause Labour to suddenly tank in the polls. Unless it is just a consequence of large numbers of people being confronted with some politics (campaigns, leaflets, broadcasts etc.) and suddenly re-thinking their position. Doesn't seem very plausible, but I'm not sure what else it could be.

    What was left of Lab's wwc vote was always going to collapse eventually due to the war they've been waging against them for the last 14 years. The only question was the timing. If these polls are accurate and it is their wwc vote evaporating then this is just the time it finally happened.

    If that's what it is I'd guess it's been the month of attacks on Ukip over immigration that finally did the trick.

    Also a lot of the other stuff they've been saying has been popular (rent, energy etc) but that just reminds people of the thing they won't mention.
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    For those punters who believe ICM's latest Euro poll, those nice people at Paddy Power and Wm Hill are offering 25/1 against the Tories winning the most votes ..... personally I won't be investing.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    @toontoon

    Is the rapidly increasing African population in Thurrock having a big effect on local politics?
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,807
    Barking and Dagenham will surely provide some UKIP gains. I wouldn't quite call it a heartland, which is further East.
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    JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380

    That MD, is the most perceptive summary of the parties that I have seen in a long time.

    Dare I ask what the kippers are?

    It's pants.

    Here you go-

    Labour - working class

    Con - middle class

    Lib Dem - the one true faith

    Ukip - somewhere inbetween - hense the mediagasm. maybe a little bit racist. But y'know - in the good way.

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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    JBriskin said:

    That MD, is the most perceptive summary of the parties that I have seen in a long time.

    Dare I ask what the kippers are?

    It's pants.

    Here you go-

    Labour - working class

    Con - middle class

    Lib Dem - the one true faith

    Ukip - somewhere inbetween - hense the mediagasm. maybe a little bit racist. But y'know - in the good way.

    Labour - working class?

    What planet are you from?
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    isamisam Posts: 40,914
    toontoon said:

    I've come back from Northern Ireland and Ireland after watching the Giro d'Italia for three days. While most people here in GB wouldn't know there is an election on, you can't say that over in both parts of the Emerald Isle where every lamp post, traffic light and anything else they can use has posters from different parties attached to them.

    I live in the Thurrock constituency, considering it is one of the most marginal seats in the country there has up to this European Election campaign there has been little campaigning. However in this European election campaign the Tories have started to get up to speed. At the start of May letters were sent to every person on the electoral roll with the Tories 5 pledges. Today I came back and saw that the Tories had gone and posted a newspaper to all addresses. What surprised me was that the newspaper was not addressed to Thurrock issues but to the town where I live. There was even a picture of 30 Tory MP's outside of the local McDonalds along with pledges what the MP would do to solve local issues.

    One interesting thing in the newspaper was a claim that Labour are trying to merge the borough with Barking and Dagenham. Would love to see some proof of that.

    This amount of canvassing is really standing out compared to the other parties. UKIP have gone for roadside advertising and have leafleted once (generic leaflet). Labour or the Lib Dems have been absent and nothing has been heard from them.

    If the Tories continue to hone this local advertising and campaigning then it might start to help them in May 2015. Labour really need to hit the ground running. Because yet again in this election campaign they have not bothered to do any electioneering in this constituency.

    "There was even a picture of 30 Tory MP's outside of the local McDonalds along with pledges what the MP would do to solve local issues."

    Thurrock already has a Conservative MP, why doesnt she just do it now?
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    JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Nigel4england - Somewhere not called London??
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    toontoontoontoon Posts: 14
    edited May 2014
    AndyJS said:

    @toontoon

    Is the rapidly increasing African population in Thurrock having a big effect on local politics?

    Not really no. There was the surge of support for BNP a few years but their support has imploded. I think that the Barking and Dagenham issue that the Tories were playing up could be a runner for them as we are seeing London Boroughs house families in the area and that looks like being one of the major issues of the campaign.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    JBriskin said:

    That MD, is the most perceptive summary of the parties that I have seen in a long time.

    Dare I ask what the kippers are?

    It's pants.

    Here you go-

    Labour - working class

    Con - middle class

    Lib Dem - the one true faith

    Ukip - somewhere inbetween - hense the mediagasm. maybe a little bit racist. But y'know - in the good way.

    Labour - working class?

    What planet are you from?
    Planet Upper Middle Class by the look of it.
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    Seriously, this is inspirational stuff...

    Ed Miliband‏@Ed_Miliband·6 mins
    Speech done, one more thought before the end of the day: The NHS is one of the greatest things our country has ever done. We must protect it
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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Sean_F said:

    Barking and Dagenham will surely provide some UKIP gains. I wouldn't quite call it a heartland, which is further East.

    The Barking thing is an attempt at a subtle smear but at the end of the day it's all good - just reminds people the political class are all the same when it comes to unlimited mass immigration.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. Foxinsox, thanks.

    UKIP are too difficult at the moment, because they're lots of different bits and bobs, and growing rapidly.

    Plus they seem to keep going back to Farage. If they survive him and get another long term leader we'll see how they do things.
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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    JBriskin said:

    Nigel4england - Somewhere not called London??

    As someone said up thread Labour have waged a war against the WWC for 14 years and are now paying the price.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. Nigel, indeed, but there are areas (such as this constituency: Morley & Outwood) where lots of people still vote Labour just because they always have done and their parents and grandparents did.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,719
    I'll admit people predicted crossover for the Tories in GE or elsewhere for so long and it always tailed off that I thought it might never happen. I'll stand by my prediction of an easy Labour win in 2015 and probably UKIP win in the Euros for a while yet though.
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    I recall Sainted Hodges saying you know the game is up for Labour when they retreat to the NHS .... not even he predicted they'd do so in the middle of a Euro elections campaign...

    Just think of that Ed M tweet below and today's polls.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Sadly, Labour are starting to look more and more like William Hague's Conservatives in the lead-up to the 2001 election. I still to this day don't believe they lost because people thought they were too "right-wing", it was because they were an incoherent mess who never seemed to have a clear idea of what they would want to do in government (apart from "not being Labour") and constantly flip-flopped. They would make contradictory statements like they would maintain Labour spending plans while still attacking them for overspending (the same as Labour today attacking the cuts while promising to run a surplus and make heavy cuts themselves). "Credibility" in the voters' eyes does not mean just doing whatever big businesses or "the markets" want like the Westminster bubble think, but it does mean being on top of your s**t and atleast having a clear idea of what you're about. If you're constantly changing your mind or don't articulate clearly what you want to do, it just doesn't make you look like a serious party.

    I wouldn't be surprised if last week's advert was the final straw, because it would've confirmed in many people's minds that Labour have no plans of their own and nothing to say about themselves so they have to resort to shrill, gratuitous attacks on their opponents.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    AndyJS said:

    I wouldn't bet against Owen Jones being the next Labour PM.

    I would !
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Seriously, this is inspirational stuff...

    Ed Miliband‏@Ed_Miliband·6 mins
    Speech done, one more thought before the end of the day: The NHS is one of the greatest things our country has ever done. We must protect it

    Only a year of this to go. Oh, just don't mention Wales...

    @CCHQPress: Health board for hospital referred to in Labour broadcast subject to over 5,500 complaints under Labour run Welsh NHS http://t.co/B1UPJOgDeR
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    On topic, I don't really believe this poll and still wouldn't be at all surprised if the Tories finish third. It's a huge change in a month and while I thought ICM had Labour high last time, I'm far from convinced that this is on the mark.

    That said, Mike's 10/1 bet looks good value - the Tories are at least in the game. As for the 56/1 ...
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,719
    Neil said:

    dodrade said:

    I'd take any poll with the Greens at 10% with a large pinch of salt.

    Why? 8.1% last time, 10% is hardly outlandish.


    True enough . Besides, not a lot of people vote for the Greens outside of the Euros, but it seems a harmless choice for many if they don't like most of the other options.
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,286
    Miliband will not be pushing for UKIP to be in GE debates with polls like this.

    Strengthens Cameron's hand to say "No UKIP or no debates".
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059

    On topic, I don't really believe this poll and still wouldn't be at all surprised if the Tories finish third. It's a huge change in a month and while I thought ICM had Labour high last time, I'm far from convinced that this is on the mark.

    That said, Mike's 10/1 bet looks good value - the Tories are at least in the game. As for the 56/1 ...

    I doubt many of us do - but living for the moment.... enjoying the froth!
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    JBriskin said:

    That MD, is the most perceptive summary of the parties that I have seen in a long time.

    Dare I ask what the kippers are?

    It's pants.

    Here you go-

    Labour - working class

    Con - middle class

    Lib Dem - the one true faith

    Ukip - somewhere inbetween - hense the mediagasm. maybe a little bit racist. But y'know - in the good way.

    Labour - working class?

    What planet are you from?
    Planet Upper Middle Class by the look of it.
    Tristram Julian William Hunt - bloody tory ;-)
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    On topic, I don't really believe this poll and still wouldn't be at all surprised if the Tories finish third. It's a huge change in a month and while I thought ICM had Labour high last time, I'm far from convinced that this is on the mark.

    That said, Mike's 10/1 bet looks good value - the Tories are at least in the game. As for the 56/1 ...

    Sensibly so Mr H. The polls mean little in isolation, more important is the direction of travel though. I suspect Labour will be back ahead in the next few polls but these as with the ICM wisdom index last week point to Ed running out of road. We now have several polls with Labour dropping below 35%. This is not an election winning platform.
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    I'm just worried what language we may still have to face from TSE if the YouGov poll miraculously completes the hat-trick... we shouldn't be talking about 3's of course not after this time last week.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    JBriskin said:

    That MD, is the most perceptive summary of the parties that I have seen in a long time.

    Dare I ask what the kippers are?

    It's pants.

    Here you go-

    Labour - working class

    Con - middle class

    Lib Dem - the one true faith

    Ukip - somewhere inbetween - hense the mediagasm. maybe a little bit racist. But y'know - in the good way.

    Labour - working class?

    What planet are you from?
    Planet Upper Middle Class by the look of it.
    Tristram Julian William Hunt - bloody tory ;-)
    TJ you knew Working Class Labour was dead when they had an MP called Quentin. ;-)
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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    Mr. Nigel, indeed, but there are areas (such as this constituency: Morley & Outwood) where lots of people still vote Labour just because they always have done and their parents and grandparents did.

    I'll never understand that but I know it still happens. This is not the same Labour Party my parents voted for or for that matter I voted for in the seventies. UKIP are growing because people are slowly realising that but I wish they would do it quicker!
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    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    How does the timing of the fieldwork for these polls correlate with the Incredible Shrinking PEB and/or the VAT on food poster?
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    I'm just worried what language we may still have to face from TSE if the YouGov poll miraculously completes the hat-trick... we shouldn't be talking about 3's of course not after this time last week.

    You may have to mention Hannibal is the manager of Man City.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    Broken sleazy Red Liberals on the slide.

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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited May 2014
    @Alanbrooke

    Three questions:

    1. What percentage of the the GDP growth rate over the past year is accounted for by household investments in residential property?

    2. What is the growth in total net lending by the banks secured on dwellings over the last year?

    3. What is the total amount of lending on dwellings secured by government guarantee under Help-to-Buy schemes and what is its proportion to total net lending on dwellings?

    Once you have answered these three questions, I suggest your reconsider your claims that the housing/construction boom is "debt fuelled" and "explicitly covered by taxpayer guarantees".

    Let me know if you are having difficulties with the numbers.

    1. 78%
    2. 345%
    3. 1298%

    Quite obvious really.

    Government Investment in economic rebalancing: -34%
    Support for businesses who aren't estate agents : -56%
    Lending to businesses which impact the BoP : £ 3.47

    Osborne inaction.

    Dear Mr. Brooke

    Thank you for your application to read PPE as a mature student at St. George's College, Oxford.

    We have carefully reviewed the papers you have submitted on all three core subjects.

    We are pleased to confirm that we found your Politics and Philosophy essays both 'original and interesting'.

    Regrettably, we found the workings in your economics paper to be somewhat too 'original'. May we recommend you check the batteries in your iPad before rerunning the calculations.

    Another option may be to check your iPad for a computer virus infection. Local branches of PC World should be able to assist with the latter.

    Once you have prepared a new submission, please send us your revised paper in the enclosed SAE.

    We are confident that once these externalities have been addressed, you will be make a fine and loyal St. Georgian. I can also heartily recommend our collection of vintage ports which are served nightly in the college buttery.

    Yours sincerely,

    Dean for Admissions
    St. George's College
    Oxford
This discussion has been closed.