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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Polling analysis: Those firms that don’t prompt for the Gre

SystemSystem Posts: 11,014
edited May 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Polling analysis: Those firms that don’t prompt for the Greens are producing the highest EP2014 shares for Ukip

There’s a new ComRes online Euros poll out this morning for Channel 4. The figures show Ukip in its best position of any of the firms that have reported this week with a big margin over place LAB. But there’s a big difference between ComRes 10/10 certain to vote figures and those where its normal turnout weightings are applied.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,358
    edited May 2014
    Interesting analysis - I do wonder if the Greens will be the only party smiling a week on Sunday
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @IsabelOakeshott: Just 1 person in audience of 500 property business profs in Birmingham raised a hand when asked if they believe @Ed_Miliband will be PM
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
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    isamisam Posts: 40,911
    Which Westminster polls do not prompt for UKIP? I thought we were told it didnt make much difference?

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    VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,435
    As a change from the Scottish discussion, on Monday there will be new polling data out on Wales. Seehttp://blogs.cardiff.ac.uk/electionsinwales/

    It says that this is not a steady as she goes poll.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,911
    So you are betting it

    5/4 UKIP
    7/4 Conservatives
    7/4 Labour

    Can I back UKIP at 5/4 for.... everything I have got?
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,403
    Anorak said:
    Yup, insulting and unfunny. Very poor show.
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    Green leaflet received today - in the recycling bin now. Trust they approve.

    I think they may well do well... especially if UKIP is tainted in some eyes as the anti-westminster party.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,911
    ToryJim said:

    Anorak said:
    Yup, insulting and unfunny. Very poor show.
    Sit back and imagine what you would have posted if the target had been Farage
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Did any pollster prompt for An Independence from Europe?

    I would have thought it would be top of their To Do list.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited May 2014
    ToryJim said:

    Anorak said:
    Yup, insulting and unfunny. Very poor show.
    I laughed - of course I may be in a minority of Jockanese posters who can laugh at such rib tickling..
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,403
    Interestingly two the firms that prompt for the Greens, ICM and YouGov, have Ukip ahead. The other one which prompts, Opinium, has a Ukip lead.

    That's a touch confusing, might need a reword.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,973
    FPT: Mr. Eagles, care to explain about Dax?
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    isam said:

    ToryJim said:

    Anorak said:
    Yup, insulting and unfunny. Very poor show.
    Sit back and imagine what you would have posted if the target had been Farage
    He'd be SHRIEKING like a Kipper.
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    saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    isam said:

    ToryJim said:

    Anorak said:
    Yup, insulting and unfunny. Very poor show.
    Sit back and imagine what you would have posted if the target had been Farage
    Are you intending to spend the day acting the victim or will you be moving on at some point? I'd like to know so I can skip over your posts today if required.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,358

    FPT: Mr. Eagles, care to explain about Dax?

    She was very difficult to work with, and announced at the very last moment she wouldn't be coming back for the final season which meant a lot of rewrites.

    She was then sacked from the next she worked on, which was Becker after a few seasons for being difficult to work with.

    She eventually "retired" from acting.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,593
    Did the Greens do unusually well in the council elections last time they coincided with the Euros?

    Green gains on Kirklees? Wor lass would be pleased!
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    saddened said:

    isam said:

    ToryJim said:

    Anorak said:
    Yup, insulting and unfunny. Very poor show.
    Sit back and imagine what you would have posted if the target had been Farage
    Are you intending to spend the day acting the victim or will you be moving on at some point? I'd like to know so I can skip over your posts today if required.
    Seems to be a divergence in far left nationalist tactics at perceived slights..

    SNats - angry with wild flailing at all comers
    UKnips - tears, maudlin wailing.

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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,358

    isam said:

    ToryJim said:

    Anorak said:
    Yup, insulting and unfunny. Very poor show.
    Sit back and imagine what you would have posted if the target had been Farage
    He'd be SHRIEKING like a Kipper.
    Kippers are quite entertaining, every zoo should have a pair.
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    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323

    Interesting analysis - I do wonder if the Greens will be the only party smiling a week on Sunday

    They are arguably the only party that can set their own measure of success.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,358

    Did the Greens do unusually well in the council elections last time they coincided with the Euros?

    Green gains on Kirklees? Wor lass would be pleased!

    They could be the largest party on Kirklees
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,973
    Mr. Eagles, I did wonder why Dax got a new host. Bit of a shame.
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,403
    isam said:

    ToryJim said:

    Anorak said:
    Yup, insulting and unfunny. Very poor show.
    Sit back and imagine what you would have posted if the target had been Farage
    To be honest I thought the brunt of the insult there was towards Scots. I have no problem laughing at my own side if it's funny, but I don't have time for "comedy" that is just insulting people.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,279
    Voters in choosing one NOTA party or another shock.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,358
    Grandiose said:

    Interesting analysis - I do wonder if the Greens will be the only party smiling a week on Sunday

    They are arguably the only party that can set their own measure of success.
    Yup, success = performance minus anticipation.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,911
    edited May 2014
    saddened said:

    isam said:

    ToryJim said:

    Anorak said:
    Yup, insulting and unfunny. Very poor show.
    Sit back and imagine what you would have posted if the target had been Farage
    Are you intending to spend the day acting the victim or will you be moving on at some point? I'd like to know so I can skip over your posts today if required.
    I thought you'd skip them anyway!

    It plays into UKIP's hands in the bigger picture, as the polls show, but I would rather see consistency thats all. It makes me feel bad for the other parties in a way when they unwittingly treat the new kid on the block the way a Racist Met Police officer treats a black kid, then accuses them of playing the victim when its pointed out


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    Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    Re 'Trek, one of the best PC games I ever played was the one in the late 80s based on Star Trek V. I played the game before I saw the appalling movie. It was great, especially the bit in the combat simulator where you had to fight three cloaked Klingon Birds of Prey captained by Klaa, Vixis and Korrd.

    In the movie, Kirk emoted that Klaa was a legend and he'd studied his victories in officer training. Was anything of them ever shown in any of the series?

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    isamisam Posts: 40,911
    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    ToryJim said:

    Anorak said:
    Yup, insulting and unfunny. Very poor show.
    Sit back and imagine what you would have posted if the target had been Farage
    To be honest I thought the brunt of the insult there was towards Scots. I have no problem laughing at my own side if it's funny, but I don't have time for "comedy" that is just insulting people.
    Actually fair enough I think you are right, I jumped the gun
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,973
    F1: a spread-betting thought.

    I don't bet on the spreads but the last couple of years Mr. Putney has raised them on my pre-season posts.

    Would there be any interest in intermittent posts on the subject (on my own blog, of course, though I'd signpost it here)? The mid-season interval and three-quarters marks would seem sensible times to review such things.

    I can't imagine it'd take too much time/effort on my part (particularly as it's be more vague musing than tipping).
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Survation have broken the url for the tables used earlier. The url now redirects elsewhere, and the new PDF doesn't include the EU Parliament VI (page numbers jump from 16-21)?

    http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Daily-Record-tables-May.pdf

    http://survation.com/new-scotland-referendum-and-voting-intention-poll-by-survation/
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    TGOHF said:

    saddened said:

    isam said:

    ToryJim said:

    Anorak said:
    Yup, insulting and unfunny. Very poor show.
    Sit back and imagine what you would have posted if the target had been Farage
    Are you intending to spend the day acting the victim or will you be moving on at some point? I'd like to know so I can skip over your posts today if required.
    Seems to be a divergence in far left nationalist tactics at perceived slights..

    SNats - angry with wild flailing at all comers
    UKnips - tears, maudlin wailing.

    They both sound like cult members, isolated and increasingly paranoid.

    It's only a matter of time before their leaders appear in flowing robes, with buckets of 'medicinally laced' Irn Bru and Vimto, for the believers.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,797
    edited May 2014
    Labour's problem, as ever, will be getting their supporters to turn out - Lab 24% Con 22% is not at all comfortable for Labour in an election where they often struggle to get their vote out...

    I think UKIP will top the poll, but the battle for second place really is on a knife edge now.

    Dan Hodges think's Ed's finished if he come's third...
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,358
    edited May 2014

    F1: a spread-betting thought.

    I don't bet on the spreads but the last couple of years Mr. Putney has raised them on my pre-season posts.

    Would there be any interest in intermittent posts on the subject (on my own blog, of course, though I'd signpost it here)? The mid-season interval and three-quarters marks would seem sensible times to review such things.

    I can't imagine it'd take too much time/effort on my part (particularly as it's be more vague musing than tipping).

    Would be good to include them.

    I avoid the points spread betting market, it only takes one mechanical breakdown or one numpty like Grosjean to cause a retirement and balls up the market.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,800
    Among Yougov's Certain to Vote, UKIP go up to 28%, and Labour down to 25%. It's hard to know if 10 out of 10 is an accurate turnout filter, or if it's too harsh. I think that the huge array of micro-parties would make it very difficult, in practice, for any party to exceed 30%.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,973
    Mr. Eagles, but, like title betting, you'd try and take that into account.

    Also, you're unfair on Grosjean. He's never been malicious and was very good in 2013 and this year, so far. Maldonado's the chap you need to watch out for.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Here's a poser for the Nats.

    An article written by Hugo Rifkind, London based sell-out, son of a Tory (a former Scottish Secretary under Thatcher no less), that they might actually agree with...

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/hugo-rifkind/9206231/scotlands-fate-is-more-important-than-david-camerons/
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    NatNat Posts: 1
    Are there any bookies doing odds on parties winning seats in individual constituencies? Greens in NW, UKIP in NE and YF in Yorkshire come to mind
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,358
    edited May 2014

    Mr. Eagles, but, like title betting, you'd try and take that into account.

    Also, you're unfair on Grosjean. He's never been malicious and was very good in 2013 and this year, so far. Maldonado's the chap you need to watch out for.

    I remember his pile up in 2012 at Spa where he nearly maimed Alonso
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    In the YouGov EUP poll the Greens are getting:

    10% current-LD, 7% current-Labour, 2% current-Con.

    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/rmxq05w0hg/YG-Archive-Pol-Sun-results-140514-EU.pdf

    UKIP are getting

    4% current-LD, 9% current-Labour, 22% current-Con.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,973
    Mr. Eagles, indeed, and I'm sure Alonso does too.

    But you can't use a bad season that seems to be behind him as a reason to criticise him now. Remember the back end of 2011? Hamilton went to pieces on circuit because of off-track problems.

    Mr. Nat, welcome to pb.com.
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,403
    Sean_F said:

    Among Yougov's Certain to Vote, UKIP go up to 28%, and Labour down to 25%. It's hard to know if 10 out of 10 is an accurate turnout filter, or if it's too harsh. I think that the huge array of micro-parties would make it very difficult, in practice, for any party to exceed 30%.

    Surely rather than just taking all the 10/10 it would be better to take a proportion of each certainty.

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    saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    isam said:

    saddened said:

    isam said:

    ToryJim said:

    Anorak said:
    Yup, insulting and unfunny. Very poor show.
    Sit back and imagine what you would have posted if the target had been Farage
    Are you intending to spend the day acting the victim or will you be moving on at some point? I'd like to know so I can skip over your posts today if required.
    I thought you'd skip them anyway!

    It plays into UKIP's hands in the bigger picture, as the polls show, but I would rather see consistency thats all. It makes me feel bad for the other parties in a way when they unwittingly treat the new kid on the block the way a Racist Met Police officer treats a black kid, then accuses them of playing the victim when its pointed out


    Victim It is then, thanks for the heads up.

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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,800
    GIN1138 said:

    Labour's problem, as ever, will be getting their supporters to turn out - Lab 24% Con 22% is not at all comfortable for Labour in an election where they often struggle to get their vote out...

    I think UKIP will top the poll, but the battle for second place really is on a knife edge now.

    Dan Hodges think's Ed's finished if he come's third...

    At one stage, it looked as if the Conservatives were heading for less than 20%, but I expect they'll be satisfied with 22-24%. Beating Labour into 3rd would have CCHQ tap-dancing with flee.

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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @ToryJim

    I thought it was amusing. ( A handy thing to remember, is that in the best Scottish bars, they say terrible things to your face, and nice things behind your back)
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    AveryLP said:

    Did any pollster prompt for An Independence from Europe?

    I would have thought it would be top of their To Do list.

    I forget which firm it was, but one of the online pollsters gave me the actual list of parties standing in my region for the prompt, in alphabetical order as on the ballot paper.

    I'm pretty sure it was Opinium who gave me the 2009 list in a Euro poll, thereby including a whole bunch of people who aren't standing this time.
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    Is this Green surge real? Where's it coming from?
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    isamisam Posts: 40,911
    At least someone can see the wood for the trees

    "For many years, the Ukip leader was ignored by the mainstream media. In the 2004 European elections, Ukip marked its first major breakthrough, winning 16 per cent of the seats. However, the BBC marked the party down as “other” in its news report the following day.

    Now that Mr Farage can no longer be ignored, he is sneered at instead. Even so, it looks possible that next week he will come top in the national vote. This will be a truly astounding achievement. No political party in modern history – not even Neil Kinnock’s Labour in 1987 – has come under such sustained attack and misrepresentation. Mr Kinnock at least had The Guardian and the Daily Mirror; Mr Farage cannot boast a single national title, and several papers are running vendettas against him. Mr Kinnock was treated reasonably fairly by the broadcast media. This is not the case with Mr Farage: consider the lacerating contempt shown towards him by Channel 4 News and its chief presenter, Jon Snow. Nick Robinson, the BBC’s political editor, has also abandoned his usual fairness when dealing with the party.

    Consider the way Mr Robinson covered Ukip’s campaign launch three weeks ago. He did not seriously attempt to address its policies, as might have been expected. Instead, he tackled Mr Farage about the fact that he employed his German wife as his secretary. This was surely a story that Mr Robinson could and would have left to a junior reporter if he had been dealing with any other party"

    http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2014/05/15/polling-analysis-those-firms-that-dont-prompt-for-the-greens-are-producing-the-highest-ep2014-shares-for-ukip/
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    As Ukip have a big chunk of NOTAs, it's hardly surprising that some may prefer the fluffy bunny Greens if reminded.

    That reminds me of the only funny sketch that Dick Emery ever managed. They'd gone back to a "Good Life" scenario ... the home-made bread was soggy in the middle, the table made out of recycled wood wobbled alarmingly and so on.

    Re Global Warming (apologies in advance), but if the proponents had said that "The earth was showing signs of warming (as it does from time to time) and although there are many confounding factors, we know from lab experiments that greenhouse gases can warm the atmosphere, so it might be prudent to reduce emissions where convenient." I'd have been far more comfortable.

    But no, it's all a disaster, our only hope is to send us back to the stone age, and if we don't, these are the ranges of temperature rise we can expect. A massive hostage to fortune when these confident predictions fail. Of course, the response is "OK, it's different, but we can still fit it into our theory with a bit of squeezing."

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    Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    I thought it was hilarious too, especially the "anything you can get from human bites" in quotes and the "developing world" observation...
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    JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    F1 Morris - Surely if you're not actually betting on the spreads you should keep away from blog posting about them?
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    @Isam - At least someone can see the wood for the trees.

    Is that the correct URL link ?
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    Did the Greens do unusually well in the council elections last time they coincided with the Euros?

    Green gains on Kirklees? Wor lass would be pleased!

    They could be the largest party on Kirklees
    No they cannot , they only have 5 councillors now and even if they won every ward this year they would not be the largest party . I doubt that they will even have 10 councillors after this year's elections
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    ComRes '100' UNS

    UKIP 28
    Lab 21
    Con 16
    LDs 1
    Green 1
    SNP 2
    Plaid 1

    ComRes 'Normal' UNS

    UKIP 24
    Lab 23
    Con 17
    LDs 1
    Green 2
    SNP 2
    Plaid 1
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,973
    Mr. Briskin, that's a valid perspective. I would make plain it was idle musing rather than me betting on things.

    Mr. CD13, quite so
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    isamisam Posts: 40,911
    saddened said:

    isam said:

    saddened said:

    isam said:

    ToryJim said:

    Anorak said:
    Yup, insulting and unfunny. Very poor show.
    Sit back and imagine what you would have posted if the target had been Farage
    Are you intending to spend the day acting the victim or will you be moving on at some point? I'd like to know so I can skip over your posts today if required.
    I thought you'd skip them anyway!

    It plays into UKIP's hands in the bigger picture, as the polls show, but I would rather see consistency thats all. It makes me feel bad for the other parties in a way when they unwittingly treat the new kid on the block the way a Racist Met Police officer treats a black kid, then accuses them of playing the victim when its pointed out


    Victim It is then, thanks for the heads up.

    It is quite unbelievable that you see it that way... I am just stating facts

    UKIP have had shit sent through the post, bricks lobbed through MEP's windows, Students abusing their OAP members, meetings being stormed , Asian and black candidates being called "racists" "fakes" and "traitors" by middle class students, all because they are making ground in the polls, yet the blame seems to lie with us.

    Just imagine if it were Respect that were getting this kind of stick from right wingers
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,358
    edited May 2014

    Did the Greens do unusually well in the council elections last time they coincided with the Euros?

    Green gains on Kirklees? Wor lass would be pleased!

    They could be the largest party on Kirklees
    No they cannot , they only have 5 councillors now and even if they won every ward this year they would not be the largest party . I doubt that they will even have 10 councillors after this year's elections
    I was being slightly sarcastic, apologies.

    Also, I thought they had eight councillors?

    Edit - It is 8 Green and Valley Independents.

    http://www2.kirklees.gov.uk/you-kmc/kmc-howcouncilworks/councillors/profile/yourcouncillors.aspx
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,906
    UKIP's chance is way over 40%. The Conservatives are NOT 30% to win.
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited May 2014

    In the YouGov EUP poll the Greens are getting:

    10% current-LD, 7% current-Labour, 2% current-Con.

    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/rmxq05w0hg/YG-Archive-Pol-Sun-results-140514-EU.pdf

    UKIP are getting

    4% current-LD, 9% current-Labour, 22% current-Con.

    Greens have
    19% 2010 LD, 7% 2010 Lab, 3% 2010 Con

    UKIP have
    18% 2010 LD, 15% 2010 Lab, 37% 2010 Con.
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Patrick said:

    Is this Green surge real? Where's it coming from?

    Mainly from 2010 LibDems according to recent YouGov polls
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    isamisam Posts: 40,911

    @Isam - At least someone can see the wood for the trees.

    Is that the correct URL link ?


    Haha.. it is me that cannot see the wood for the trees!


    "For many years, the Ukip leader was ignored by the mainstream media. In the 2004 European elections, Ukip marked its first major breakthrough, winning 16 per cent of the seats. However, the BBC marked the party down as “other” in its news report the following day.

    Now that Mr Farage can no longer be ignored, he is sneered at instead. Even so, it looks possible that next week he will come top in the national vote. This will be a truly astounding achievement. No political party in modern history – not even Neil Kinnock’s Labour in 1987 – has come under such sustained attack and misrepresentation. Mr Kinnock at least had The Guardian and the Daily Mirror; Mr Farage cannot boast a single national title, and several papers are running vendettas against him. Mr Kinnock was treated reasonably fairly by the broadcast media. This is not the case with Mr Farage: consider the lacerating contempt shown towards him by Channel 4 News and its chief presenter, Jon Snow. Nick Robinson, the BBC’s political editor, has also abandoned his usual fairness when dealing with the party.

    Consider the way Mr Robinson covered Ukip’s campaign launch three weeks ago. He did not seriously attempt to address its policies, as might have been expected. Instead, he tackled Mr Farage about the fact that he employed his German wife as his secretary. This was surely a story that Mr Robinson could and would have left to a junior reporter if he had been dealing with any other party"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10830882/British-politics-is-broken-and-only-Nigel-Farage-is-profiting.html
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    isam said:

    Mr Farage cannot boast a single national title...

    I thought the Express was the paper batting for UKIP?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,358
    If the Tories do win and or Labour or UKIP come third, I won't be on PB for a few days, I'll have broken a rib laughing.
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    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,189
    We appear to have a genuine 3 horse race for the lead in the Euros.

    Whatever the turnout, I do sincerely hope the LibDems get no seats at all. We all need a laugh now and then, and the party of in being turfed out would be pure cabaret.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,973
    Mr. Eagles, what if it's UKIP, Lab, Con but the Greens beat the Lib Dems?
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    In related EU news, the economic recovery on the continent seems to be falling apart. Italy went backwards (-0.2% QoQ, -0.5% YoY), France stalled (0%) and the Netherlands continues to go backwards (-0.5% YoY, unemployment at 8.7%), Portugal has gone backwards (-0.7% QoQ). Only Germany seems to have pulled through properly, and even their recovery is now more like ours, based on rising domestic consumption and falling external demand.

    With the spectre of deflation (which is something I don't believe the EC understands properly, they seem to think it might be good for southern Europe to have some price deflation to spur wage deflation) and economic growth stalling in western Europe I don't know what they are going to do next. If the French economy doesn't start to pick up soon I could see another crisis, it is the key determinant for the future of the EU. If Hollande can't reform the economy in the time the ECB has bought over the next year or so then everything will start going backwards again properly. One hopes that the government will continue to expand non-EU trade and ensure that we are not so dependent on the EU for economic growth.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Reason why Ed's landlord bashing went down badly ?

    James Chapman (Mail) ‏@jameschappers 3m
    11% of people have a second home?Incredible stat http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/was/wealth-in-great-britain-wave-3/2010-2012/sty-facts-about-household-wealth.html
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Why is it that all Kippers seem able to do is moan.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,911
    edited May 2014

    isam said:

    Mr Farage cannot boast a single national title...

    I thought the Express was the paper batting for UKIP?
    They do seem to be, good point.

    Peter Oborne wrote that article not me by the way, I posted the wrong link
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    isam said:

    @Isam - At least someone can see the wood for the trees.

    Is that the correct URL link ?


    Haha.. it is me that cannot see the wood for the trees!

    I've done exactly the same myself when I've had more than one tab open. ; )
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,358
    edited May 2014

    Mr. Eagles, what if it's UKIP, Lab, Con but the Greens beat the Lib Dems?

    The Greens defeating the Lib Dems wouldn't be expected. I kinda forecast that last month.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    You can say what you like about Nigel Farage. He is not omnipotent, he makes mistakes, he sometimes over enthuses but he is the only class leader in British politics today.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10830882/British-politics-is-broken-and-only-Nigel-Farage-is-profiting.html

    I'm not a Peter Oborne fan especially, but this time he is spot on.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,973
    Mr. PB, cheers for that very interesting post.

    I wonder how quickly and how far Euroland will decline, and the impact on the UK (both economically and politically).

    How are plans for banking and fiscal integration coming along? I haven't heard anything about that for ages.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    isam said:

    saddened said:

    isam said:

    saddened said:

    isam said:

    ToryJim said:

    Anorak said:
    Yup, insulting and unfunny. Very poor show.
    Sit back and imagine what you would have posted if the target had been Farage
    Are you intending to spend the day acting the victim or will you be moving on at some point? I'd like to know so I can skip over your posts today if required.
    I thought you'd skip them anyway!

    It plays into UKIP's hands in the bigger picture, as the polls show, but I would rather see consistency thats all. It makes me feel bad for the other parties in a way when they unwittingly treat the new kid on the block the way a Racist Met Police officer treats a black kid, then accuses them of playing the victim when its pointed out


    Victim It is then, thanks for the heads up.

    It is quite unbelievable that you see it that way... I am just stating facts

    UKIP have had shit sent through the post, bricks lobbed through MEP's windows, Students abusing their OAP members, meetings being stormed , Asian and black candidates being called "racists" "fakes" and "traitors" by middle class students, all because they are making ground in the polls, yet the blame seems to lie with us.

    Just imagine if it were Respect that were getting this kind of stick from right wingers
    Time for Kipper activists to protect themselves against all the brickbats thrown:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnoMO_9IQAEkYhB.jpg:large
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,189
    With only just over 30% of the electorate voting and the huge temptation to have a free go at anyone in any kind of authority that the Euros represent the pollsters have their work cut out. My suspicion is that if any of them get anywhere near it will be as much by luck as judgment.

    Some trends seem likely.

    Firstly, because the whole thing is gesture politics the vote will be spread more widely than the polls are generally indicating with lots of votes going to "others" who don't normally register.
    Secondly, because of that and because UKIP will not be able to scoop the poll of the largest segment for these elections, the NOTA party, I suspect they will undershoot rather than overshoot the current estimates.
    Thirdly, Labour will seriously undershoot in the areas where they don't have locals generating at least something of a GOTV operation. They always do.
    Fourthly, the tories will undershoot as well because they are in government and kicking governments is really the point of this.
    Fifthly, and slightly ominously, "the party of in" might very well be left with no seats at all. I can't think who, other than a completely dedicated party member, will vote Lib Dem in these elections.

    Who will that leave in the lead? Have you got a die? I would give UKIP numbers 1-3, the tories 4 and Labour five and six. But it is pretty random. There is more chance of picking a winner in the Grand National.
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    CD13 said:

    Re Global Warming (apologies in advance), but if the proponents had said that "The earth was showing signs of warming (as it does from time to time) and although there are many confounding factors, we know from lab experiments that greenhouse gases can warm the atmosphere, so it might be prudent to reduce emissions where convenient." I'd have been far more comfortable.

    That is basically what most Climate Scientists said about 30-35 years ago.

    The Science has moved on a bit since then and your characterisation of the solutions suggested is inaccurate, to put it mildly.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,911
    edited May 2014

    Why is it that all Kippers seem able to do is moan.

    Biased articles? Smears? Lies? Bricks through windows?

    Which pollsters dont prompt for UKIP in Westminster VI Mike? Does that flatter the other parties scores?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,358
    edited May 2014
    MikeK said:

    You can say what you like about Nigel Farage. He is not omnipotent, he makes mistakes, he sometimes over enthuses but he is the only class leader in British politics today.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10830882/British-politics-is-broken-and-only-Nigel-Farage-is-profiting.html

    I'm not a Peter Oborne fan especially, but this time he is spot on.

    Is that the Peter Oborne that praised Gordon Brown at the start of his premiership.

    Yeah, Oborne knows how to pick them
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    isamisam Posts: 40,911

    If the Tories do win and or Labour or UKIP come third, I won't be on PB for a few days, I'll have broken a rib laughing.

    Ill be a nice few grand better off. Every cloud...
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,797
    edited May 2014

    Why is it that all Kippers seem able to do is moan.

    The comments sections of the Telegraph (and to some degree the Spectator as well) is a hot-bed of angst, misery and ranting.

    If he were still around, I wonder whether that little ray of sunshine Coldstone would have converted to UKIP? ;)
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Pulpstar said:

    UKIP's chance is way over 40%. The Conservatives are NOT 30% to win.

    Agree , 1 freak poll putting them ahead has coloured Mike's judgment . UKIP 60% Lab 30% and Con 10% are my estimates .
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,403
    MaxPB said:

    In related EU news, the economic recovery on the continent seems to be falling apart. Italy went backwards (-0.2% QoQ, -0.5% YoY), France stalled (0%) and the Netherlands continues to go backwards (-0.5% YoY, unemployment at 8.7%), Portugal has gone backwards (-0.7% QoQ). Only Germany seems to have pulled through properly, and even their recovery is now more like ours, based on rising domestic consumption and falling external demand.

    With the spectre of deflation (which is something I don't believe the EC understands properly, they seem to think it might be good for southern Europe to have some price deflation to spur wage deflation) and economic growth stalling in western Europe I don't know what they are going to do next. If the French economy doesn't start to pick up soon I could see another crisis, it is the key determinant for the future of the EU. If Hollande can't reform the economy in the time the ECB has bought over the next year or so then everything will start going backwards again properly. One hopes that the government will continue to expand non-EU trade and ensure that we are not so dependent on the EU for economic growth.

    Hollande can't reform his economy because he starts from a premise that is demonstrably false.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,906

    Why is it that all Kippers seem able to do is moan.

    Dunno, UKIP @ 40% is a bold statement though. I'd say they were 'true' odds on myself ! Conservative chance at 30% is also a big overestimation of their chances methinks.

    If these were the true odds my book would be considerably greener, so this isn't my pocket talking. But like iSam I'll take 5/4 on UKIP ;)
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,635
    Scott_P said:

    Here's a poser for the Nats.

    An article written by Hugo Rifkind, London based sell-out, son of a Tory (a former Scottish Secretary under Thatcher no less), that they might actually agree with...

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/hugo-rifkind/9206231/scotlands-fate-is-more-important-than-david-camerons/

    Can't speak for the Nats, and Mr Rifkind cannot be held responsible for his father: "In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children’s teeth are set on edge." But thanks for putting it up.

    I see he's a bit challenged on train history in the sense of modern trains, though the Scots did contribute to the development of railways per se, en route from German mines to HS2, through the Tranent and Cockenzie Waggonway ...

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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    Why is it that all Kippers seem able to do is moan.

    I'm looking forward to your LDs-only-lose-votes-where-conveniet theory meeting the voters. Perhaps the Election-Data chaps will produce some maps?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,358

    Why is it that all Kippers seem able to do is moan.

    There's a lot for the Kippers to moan about

    Farage sells out to Cameron, principal agent of the EUSSR

    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2014/05/farage-sells-out-to-cameron-principal-agent-of-the-eussr.html
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,797

    Pulpstar said:

    UKIP's chance is way over 40%. The Conservatives are NOT 30% to win.

    Agree , 1 freak poll putting them ahead has coloured Mike's judgment . UKIP 60% Lab 30% and Con 10% are my estimates .
    On the other hand that "freak poll" did come from ICM, which is always very highly regarded./ Not saying Con will top the poll, but when ICM polls show you something it's always worth sitting up to take notice....

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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,403

    MikeK said:

    You can say what you like about Nigel Farage. He is not omnipotent, he makes mistakes, he sometimes over enthuses but he is the only class leader in British politics today.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10830882/British-politics-is-broken-and-only-Nigel-Farage-is-profiting.html

    I'm not a Peter Oborne fan especially, but this time he is spot on.

    Is that the Peter Oborne that praised Gordon Brown at the start of his premiership.

    Yeah, Oborne knows how to pick them
    I've been to a conference fringe featuring Oborne. It was hard not to start lobbing elements of the buffet at him, he is a monumental buffoon.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Pulpstar said:

    UKIP's chance is way over 40%. The Conservatives are NOT 30% to win.

    I would agree with that. We're now just a week away from the election, and the polls are reasonably consistent. Of the seven polls where the fieldwork was done on May 1st or later, six have the order of the top three as UKIP-Lab-Con, and those six have results in the following ranges:

    UKIP 28% to 32%
    Lab 25% to 28%
    Con 21% to 24%

    The only exception is ICM, which had Con in the lead (just): 27% Con to 26% UKIP. That looks like an outlier.

    In practice, as Sean Fear points out upthread, the plethora of minor parties means the final big three vote-share figures will probably be lower all round, but the order looks reasonably robust. I think there is a chance that Labour will disappoint on the day, and maybe UKIP will outperform. Overall, I'm expecting UKIP/Lab/Con but wouldn't be too surprised if Labour come third.

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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    We appear to have a genuine 3 horse race for the lead in the Euros.

    Whatever the turnout, I do sincerely hope the LibDems get no seats at all. We all need a laugh now and then, and the party of in being turfed out would be pure cabaret.

    Though I'm generally in favour of the EU I do agree on your latter point. It would be the sort of result comedians would be wishing for. The jokes just write themselves.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    Ed Miliband ‏@Ed_Miliband · 4 mins
    David Axelrod has joined me at Shadow Cabinet to discuss how we win and change Britain. pic.twitter.com/GvrYIPZ46Y

    Poor old Ed...he's really not very photogenic is he?
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    volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Ukip Deputy Leader of Hampshire CC held over assault charge.

    http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/11215174._/
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Why is it that all Kippers seem able to do is moan.

    I'm looking forward to your LDs-only-lose-votes-where-conveniet theory meeting the voters. Perhaps the Election-Data chaps will produce some maps?
    I shall laugh and laugh as OGH cries into his pots and wails away on a few threads, post 22nd May.
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited May 2014
    GIN1138 said:

    Why is it that all Kippers seem able to do is moan.

    The comments sections of the Telegraph (and to some degree the Spectator as well) is a hot-bed of angst, misery and ranting.

    If he were still around, I wonder whether that little ray of sunshine Coldstone would have converted to UKIP? ;)
    That's a no brainer.

    I'm sure that on a nice sunny morning such as today, he's yomping across Dorset with a spring in his step, and a rucksack full of UKIP campaign literature on his back, chatting with fellow White Flighters.
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    Why is it that all Kippers seem able to do is moan.

    There's a lot for the Kippers to moan about

    Farage sells out to Cameron, principal agent of the EUSSR

    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2014/05/farage-sells-out-to-cameron-principal-agent-of-the-eussr.html
    What is it about that interview that you think UKIP supporters should find objectionable?

    http://order-order.com/2014/05/14/farage-id-do-a-deal-with-dave/
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    The voting numbers for the Chair of the HoC Defence Select Committee are available.

    Rory Stewart defeated Julian Lewis by 226-212 in the seventh stage of voting after Julian Brazier was eliminated :

    http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-committees/defence/Defence-Committee-chair-election-final-results.pdf
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    GIN1138 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    UKIP's chance is way over 40%. The Conservatives are NOT 30% to win.

    Agree , 1 freak poll putting them ahead has coloured Mike's judgment . UKIP 60% Lab 30% and Con 10% are my estimates .
    On the other hand that "freak poll" did come from ICM, which is always very highly regarded./ Not saying Con will top the poll, but when ICM polls show you something it's always worth sitting up to take notice....

    The ICM Euro polling in 2009 was very poor and even comments from ICM staff are dubious of the accuracy of that poll .
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,797
    I wonder whether ICM will do another poll before next Thursday? I would imagine ICM would be keen to come up with something more "in-line" with other pollsters if they can?
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Why is it that all Kippers seem able to do is moan.

    They enjoy sex more .... and more often ?!?

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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    GIN1138 said:

    I wonder whether ICM will do another poll before next Thursday? I would imagine ICM would be keen to come up with something more "in-line" with other pollsters if they can?

    Surely you are not accusing them of underhand dealings? ;)
This discussion has been closed.