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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » By this time next week a large part of Labour’s selectorate

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    Wonder which will happen first, Labour becoming electable or the heat death of the universe...
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    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    edited August 2015
    Scott_P said:

    @NCPoliticsUK: ICM/Guardian:

    CON 40 (+2)
    LAB 31 (-3)
    LIB 7 (+1)
    UKIP 10 (-3)
    GRN 4 (=)
    SNP 5 (+1)

    Note: New methodology

    At this rate Labour will be down to 27% by the time the next leader is appointed. It will make it very easy to portray his or her stewardship as a success, as an increase in likely.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,719
    Scott_P said:

    @NCPoliticsUK: ICM/Guardian:

    CON 40 (+2)
    LAB 31 (-3)
    LIB 7 (+1)
    UKIP 10 (-3)
    GRN 4 (=)
    SNP 5 (+1)

    Note: New methodology

    Boo - MOE!

    I know it's being greedy so soon after a GE and the very entertaining Labour contest (I hope the next Tory one is this good, the LD one was so sombre due to how bad a situation there are in that it wasn't fun), but I want somew major shifts!

    Also, are the LDs officially back to just being Liberals, hence being LIB?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,212
    Scott_P said:

    @NCPoliticsUK: ICM/Guardian:

    CON 40 (+2)
    LAB 31 (-3)
    LIB 7 (+1)
    UKIP 10 (-3)
    GRN 4 (=)
    SNP 5 (+1)

    Note: New methodology

    Labour on 31? I think the new methodology may still need some tweaking.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    DavidL said:

    Labour on 31? I think the new methodology may still need some tweaking.

    Wait till after the Corbynation...
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    Burnham is crap, his supporters are defecting to Cooper

    Yvette Cooper needs to step up her campaign if she is to win the contest to become Labour's next leader, ex-cabinet minister Peter Hain has said.

    He told the BBC he had switched his support from Andy Burnham to the Pontefract and Castleford MP.

    http://bbc.in/1J1KDi6
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,719
    Pulpstar said:

    Wonder which will happen first, Labour becoming electable or the heat death of the universe...

    There are still on 31! It's not a million miles from electability - they seem to have a very decent floor of support, though they are testing it right now.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. L, really? Labour on 31 seems eminently possible.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,212
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @NCPoliticsUK: ICM/Guardian:

    CON 40 (+2)
    LAB 31 (-3)
    LIB 7 (+1)
    UKIP 10 (-3)
    GRN 4 (=)
    SNP 5 (+1)

    Note: New methodology

    Boo - MOE!

    I know it's being greedy so soon after a GE and the very entertaining Labour contest (I hope the next Tory one is this good, the LD one was so sombre due to how bad a situation there are in that it wasn't fun), but I want somew major shifts!

    Also, are the LDs officially back to just being Liberals, hence being LIB?
    A two word title seems a little extravagant for a party with 8 MPs.
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    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Scott_P said:

    @NCPoliticsUK: ICM/Guardian:

    CON 40 (+2)
    LAB 31 (-3)
    LIB 7 (+1)
    UKIP 10 (-3)
    GRN 4 (=)
    SNP 5 (+1)

    Note: New methodology

    The Greens are at the same level they were in the election, and UKIP are only back three points. And they both have the dissatisfaction with government that builds up over five years. UKIP especially could have a major effect on the next election. I think the main new development is that a Corbyn-led Labour will be highly vulnerable.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Mr. L, really? Labour on 31 seems eminently possible.

    I think he was suggesting it was too high.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,807
    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    @NCPoliticsUK: ICM/Guardian:

    CON 40 (+2)
    LAB 31 (-3)
    LIB 7 (+1)
    UKIP 10 (-3)
    GRN 4 (=)
    SNP 5 (+1)

    Note: New methodology

    Labour on 31? I think the new methodology may still need some tweaking.
    Wait till Corbyn gets going.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the figure wasn't 25-27% by the time of next year's local elections.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,370
    edited August 2015
    Someone has pointed out to me, Jeremy Corbyn has a similarity with two awesome people that have shaped human history.

    Like Jesus Christ and Julius Caesar, he has the same initials.

    Having the initials is the sign of greatness
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,212

    Mr. L, really? Labour on 31 seems eminently possible.

    Well I am obviously being facetious since I have no idea but every Labour supporter I know seems pretty close to despair and really doubtful if they will vote for their party again. Of course in Scotland the problems of the party are particularly acute and it may be better in London, for example.

    This leadership campaign seems designed to test the old saw about all publicity being good publicity to destruction.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Wait till Corbyn gets going.

    Presumably JC supports the new tube strikes....???
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. Eagles, you missed out John Cleese.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Are there any markets on a new political party being formed by disgruntled Labour MPs from either end of the spectrum?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,212
    Danny565 said:

    Mr. L, really? Labour on 31 seems eminently possible.

    I think he was suggesting it was too high.
    Correct.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    @NCPoliticsUK: ICM/Guardian:

    CON 40 (+2)
    LAB 31 (-3)
    LIB 7 (+1)
    UKIP 10 (-3)
    GRN 4 (=)
    SNP 5 (+1)

    Note: New methodology

    Labour on 31? I think the new methodology may still need some tweaking.
    Wait till Corbyn gets going.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the figure wasn't 25-27% by the time of next year's local elections.
    I'm doubtful whether Vladimir Putin's endorsement will be helpful to Jeremy Corbyn with the wider electorate.
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    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    @NCPoliticsUK: ICM/Guardian:

    CON 40 (+2)
    LAB 31 (-3)
    LIB 7 (+1)
    UKIP 10 (-3)
    GRN 4 (=)
    SNP 5 (+1)

    Note: New methodology

    Labour on 31? I think the new methodology may still need some tweaking.
    Wait till Corbyn gets going.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the figure wasn't 25-27% by the time of next year's local elections.
    I was speaking to some politically active people today, one Labour, one Tory, they said, they reckon Labour will be polling around 30% if Corbyn is elected leader.

    What they think will happen is a huge chunk of the Con to UKIP switchers will go back to the Tories, and the Tories will be polling in the mid 40s.

    Do you think that's possible?
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    isamisam Posts: 40,915

    Someone has pointed out to me, Jeremy Corbyn has a similarity with two awesome people that have shamed human history.

    Like Jesus Christ and Julius Caesar, he has the same initials.

    Having the initials is the sign of greatness

    Shamed? Freudian slip?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. P, why form a new party? They could jump to the Lib Dems and take it over as the Corbynites have with Labour.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    DavidL said:

    every Labour supporter I know seems pretty close to despair and really doubtful if they will vote for their party again.

    You should read the comments on the LabourList article linked earlier. They are ecstatic. Blair winning elections was a bad thing it seems.
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    isam said:

    Someone has pointed out to me, Jeremy Corbyn has a similarity with two awesome people that have shamed human history.

    Like Jesus Christ and Julius Caesar, he has the same initials.

    Having the initials is the sign of greatness

    Shamed? Freudian slip?
    Shaped, blasted auto-correct
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    edited August 2015

    Mr. Eagles, you missed out John Cleese.

    And Jeremy Clarkson, and James Cook, and John Cabot...

    EDIT - but perhaps he has most in common with John Clare, an incurable romantic lamenting how much better things were in the good ol' days.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @WikiGuido: Labour source texts: "We had 115 years. It was a good run."
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Mr. P, why form a new party? They could jump to the Lib Dems and take it over as the Corbynites have with Labour.

    Is Nick Clegg really less toxic than Jezza?
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    antifrank said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    @NCPoliticsUK: ICM/Guardian:

    CON 40 (+2)
    LAB 31 (-3)
    LIB 7 (+1)
    UKIP 10 (-3)
    GRN 4 (=)
    SNP 5 (+1)

    Note: New methodology

    Labour on 31? I think the new methodology may still need some tweaking.
    Wait till Corbyn gets going.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the figure wasn't 25-27% by the time of next year's local elections.
    I'm doubtful whether Vladimir Putin's endorsement will be helpful to Jeremy Corbyn with the wider electorate.
    Nigel Farage's going to be pissed off with Putin endorsing Corbyn and not him.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,212
    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    every Labour supporter I know seems pretty close to despair and really doubtful if they will vote for their party again.

    You should read the comments on the LabourList article linked earlier. They are ecstatic. Blair winning elections was a bad thing it seems.
    Well, in fairness, they may have a point. His choice of Chancellor was particularly problematic.
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    Martin Boon being very honest, in response to Tim Montgomerie asking why ICM aren't polling on the Labour leadership election

    @montie not sure I'd want to go there. Very risky polling it, particularly in current rather anti-polling environment.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,915
    ydoethur said:

    Mr. Eagles, you missed out John Cleese.

    And Jeremy Clarkson, and James Cook, and John Cabot...
    Jasper carrott, Jimmy choo, John chedhozie, we love you


    To the tune of madonnas vogue
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    notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    edited August 2015

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    @NCPoliticsUK: ICM/Guardian:

    CON 40 (+2)
    LAB 31 (-3)
    LIB 7 (+1)
    UKIP 10 (-3)
    GRN 4 (=)
    SNP 5 (+1)

    Note: New methodology

    Labour on 31? I think the new methodology may still need some tweaking.
    Wait till Corbyn gets going.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the figure wasn't 25-27% by the time of next year's local elections.
    I was speaking to some politically active people today, one Labour, one Tory, they said, they reckon Labour will be polling around 30% if Corbyn is elected leader.

    What they think will happen is a huge chunk of the Con to UKIP switchers will go back to the Tories, and the Tories will be polling in the mid 40s.

    Do you think that's possible?
    I actually think the opposite. I think labour will get a big bump in the polls. Fresh new ideas, broken consensus, man to lead out of the neo liberal quagmire, all that kind of gunk.

    He will have simple (and plausible) solutions to very difficult problems.

    There is not a problem out there that cant be solved by gigantic dollops of public money (the argument will go), even those problems that are quite obviously only exist because of too many dollops of public money, will again, only be solved be even more.

    As I said, he will get a bump in the polls, and if the country enters into a recession or another financial crisis expect him to have significant poll leads.

    It will all crumble away in the build up to 2020, but not until then.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @NCPoliticsUK: 9 points is the biggest CON lead in an ICM poll while in government since May 1992, and the second biggest ever, according to @markpack's db
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited August 2015
    Scott_P said:

    @NCPoliticsUK: 9 points is the biggest CON lead in an ICM poll while in government since May 1992, and the second biggest ever, according to @markpack's db

    If it wasn’t for the Tory honeymoon, Labour would be on at least 32%. :innocent:


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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. Eagles, even auto-correct has a better grasp of classical history than you :p
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    notme said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    @NCPoliticsUK: ICM/Guardian:

    CON 40 (+2)
    LAB 31 (-3)
    LIB 7 (+1)
    UKIP 10 (-3)
    GRN 4 (=)
    SNP 5 (+1)

    Note: New methodology

    Labour on 31? I think the new methodology may still need some tweaking.
    Wait till Corbyn gets going.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the figure wasn't 25-27% by the time of next year's local elections.
    I was speaking to some politically active people today, one Labour, one Tory, they said, they reckon Labour will be polling around 30% if Corbyn is elected leader.

    What they think will happen is a huge chunk of the Con to UKIP switchers will go back to the Tories, and the Tories will be polling in the mid 40s.

    Do you think that's possible?
    I actually think the opposite. I think labour will get a big bump in the polls. Fresh new ideas, broken consensus, man to lead out of the neo liberal quagmire, all that kind of gunk.

    He will have simple (and plausible) solutions to very difficult problems.

    There is not a problem out there that cant be solved by gigantic dollops of public money (the argument will go), even those problems that are quite obviously only exist because of too many dollops of public money, will again, only be solved be even more.

    As I said, he will get a bump in the polls, and if the country enters into a recession or another financial crisis expect him to have significant poll leads.

    It will all crumble away in the build up to 2020, but not until then.
    That's kinda my thinking.

    Aided and abetted by the Tories tearing themselves over the EU and the economy going south in this parliament.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    What I find most intriguing is the scale of ABC. Sensible Labourites are despairing, whilst Tories are pointing and laughing.

    Bar Owen and a handful of no-names, almost everyone thinks it's an impending disaster to elect Corbyn.

    And yet here we are. IDS had nothing on this. He was just the wrong man for the job, not a throwback loony.
    DavidL said:

    Mr. L, really? Labour on 31 seems eminently possible.

    Well I am obviously being facetious since I have no idea but every Labour supporter I know seems pretty close to despair and really doubtful if they will vote for their party again. Of course in Scotland the problems of the party are particularly acute and it may be better in London, for example.

    This leadership campaign seems designed to test the old saw about all publicity being good publicity to destruction.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    Of course, just to confuse matters, Jesus' initials were JbJ (Joshua bar Joesph). Jesus is the Greek version of his name, while Christ is a title ('Messiah, Saviour').

    Now I'm being picky, of course.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    It just keeps getting more insane and trippy as the days go by.
    antifrank said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    @NCPoliticsUK: ICM/Guardian:

    CON 40 (+2)
    LAB 31 (-3)
    LIB 7 (+1)
    UKIP 10 (-3)
    GRN 4 (=)
    SNP 5 (+1)

    Note: New methodology

    Labour on 31? I think the new methodology may still need some tweaking.
    Wait till Corbyn gets going.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the figure wasn't 25-27% by the time of next year's local elections.
    I'm doubtful whether Vladimir Putin's endorsement will be helpful to Jeremy Corbyn with the wider electorate.
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    MrsBMrsB Posts: 574
    I've been away without internet access for two weeks. I have come backto discover that my £50 on the Labour party not being stupid enough to elect Andy Burnham appears to be somewhat safer than than I might have thought a few weeks ago.


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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Julian Clary...
    ydoethur said:

    Mr. Eagles, you missed out John Cleese.

    And Jeremy Clarkson, and James Cook, and John Cabot...

    EDIT - but perhaps he has most in common with John Clare, an incurable romantic lamenting how much better things were in the good ol' days.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    notme said:


    There is not a problem out there that cant be solved by gigantic dollops of public money (the argument will go), even those problems that are quite obviously only exist because of too many dollops of public money, will again, only be solved be even more.

    Another Soviet joke (sorry, but I do love them):
    Q: Why is communism superior to capitalism?

    A: Because it heroically overcomes problems that do not exist in any other system.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,370
    edited August 2015
    Talking about Christianity, as someone who generally mocks religion, can I say, the teacher stabbed in Bradford, using his faith, has shown dignity and forgiveness towards the kid that tried to kill him/wound him that I probably would never be able to show.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,391
    JEO said:

    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    Bob

    "My only worry is that Corbs may prove massively more popular with the wider electorate than anyone ever envisaged....."

    I was introduced to an 86 year old woman in a cafe this morning with a strong German/Austrian accent. She came to the UK from Vienna in '48 and regaled me with stories of how the Austrians were worse than the Germans and how to this day they're still racists who refuse to accept their history.

    She felt great affection for the English. For their friendliness and lack of corruption. She also hated the Tories with a passion almost equalling her loathing for her ex compatriots. She joined the Lib Dems because of Blair and has stuffed envelopes for them when required ever since.

    She said if Corbyn won the leadership she would rejoin Labour and die happy!

    It almost tempted me to pay my £3

    Shame that she didn't recognise:

    - it was a Tory administration that declared war on Germany
    - it was a Tory PM who won the war
    - the majority of her years of living in England have been under Tory rule

    I'd be pretty thankful to the Tories in that situation.

    Quite. It was the Jeremy Corbyn's of this world that were trying get on with Germany by appealing to the Nazis better nature. Just as the man himself does with Chavez and Hamas.
    Hamas are just an armed group. Terrorists, revolutionaries, insurgents, freedom fighters - the designation is entirely subjective. Most of the groups we support in Syria are worse - and those are the nicer ones.

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    MrsB said:

    I've been away without internet access for two weeks. I have come backto discover that my £50 on the Labour party not being stupid enough to elect Andy Burnham appears to be somewhat safer than than I might have thought a few weeks ago.


    Yes, your money is safe. It was £10 @7-1 that I had with you iirc, I'll send the site (Or yourself) £20 if Jezza does it
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,370
    edited August 2015

    Mr. Eagles, even auto-correct has a better grasp of classical history than you :p

    Auto-correct once turned "Hermes" in to "Herpes"

    Auto-correct is the bane of my life
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    DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Meanwhile OGH has info on the polling on a Kendall-led Labour Party:
    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/631121092309086208
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    Me neither. But it is.
    Plato said:

    I still can't quite believe this is happening.

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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,391
    antifrank said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    @NCPoliticsUK: ICM/Guardian:

    CON 40 (+2)
    LAB 31 (-3)
    LIB 7 (+1)
    UKIP 10 (-3)
    GRN 4 (=)
    SNP 5 (+1)

    Note: New methodology

    Labour on 31? I think the new methodology may still need some tweaking.
    Wait till Corbyn gets going.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the figure wasn't 25-27% by the time of next year's local elections.
    I'm doubtful whether Vladimir Putin's endorsement will be helpful to Jeremy Corbyn with the wider electorate.
    There's been a Putin endorsement? Brilliant!
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Mr. L, really? Labour on 31 seems eminently possible.

    Mr. Dancer, I know you have a jolly good memory so I think your comment is disingenuous to say the least.

    On the run up to the GE there were according to the pollsters two opposite and mutually exclusive movements happening amongst the voters. One group of polling companies detected a movement from Labour towards the Conservatives whilst at the same time another group detected a movement from the Conservatives towards Labour. By polling day all these companies' figures had coalesced at about the same place, the election was too close to call but probably a Labour minority government.

    They were, of course, all wrong but that wouldn't matter as they were ALL wrong, and probably nobody would remember the contradictory trends. Except that one company, probably inadvertently, let the cat out of the bag. We had a poll, they said, which was remarkably close to the actual result, but we didn't publish it because it didn't "feel right". And there you have British polling fully exposed. Never mind, the careful attempts to obtain a representative sample, never mind the clever "scientific" weighting (a process that looks ever more dubious), if the answer doesn't come out "right" well then it can get sat on (or perhaps re-weighted).

    So Labour on 31 does seem eminently possible. Labour on anything anyone is willing to pay for or which "seems right" to a polling company is eminently possible.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181

    Mr. Eagles, even auto-correct has a better grasp of classical history than you :p

    Auto-correct once turned "Hermes" in to "Herpes"

    Auto-correct is the bane of my life
    My father was once writing a report on animal welfare on a particular farm. Auto correct managed to turn every incident of 'pigs' into 'piss' and references to a Charolais bull into a 'Cheerless' bull.

    It was a very early version, but even so...
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,391

    Mr. Eagles, even auto-correct has a better grasp of classical history than you :p

    Auto-correct once turned "Hermes" in to "Herpes"

    Auto-correct is the bane of my life
    Bet the girlfriend wasn't too impressed with that Herpes scarf you promised her.

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. Llama, my memory for certain things is quite good, but not so much for polling.

    I do think Labour on 31 is entirely credible. It's a tiny bit up on the General Election, which wasn't so long ago.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,100
    Plato said:

    Julian Clary...

    ydoethur said:

    Mr. Eagles, you missed out John Cleese.

    And Jeremy Clarkson, and James Cook, and John Cabot...

    EDIT - but perhaps he has most in common with John Clare, an incurable romantic lamenting how much better things were in the good ol' days.
    Jackie Chan. Jimmy Carr.

    Jasper Carrot.....
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,370
    edited August 2015
    ydoethur said:

    Mr. Eagles, even auto-correct has a better grasp of classical history than you :p

    Auto-correct once turned "Hermes" in to "Herpes"

    Auto-correct is the bane of my life
    My father was once writing a report on animal welfare on a particular farm. Auto correct managed to turn every incident of 'pigs' into 'piss' and references to a Charolais bull into a 'Cheerless' bull.

    It was a very early version, but even so...
    A few years ago, I was planning to visit my parents, but ended up having to delay, one day, I texted her

    "All being well, I should be coming home tonight"

    Except the phone turned it into

    "All being well, I should be coming good tonight"

    My sweet innocent mother, rang me up and said, what did your text mean, that you'd be coming good tonight
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited August 2015
    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    Bob

    "My only worry is that Corbs may prove massively more popular with the wider electorate than anyone ever envisaged....."

    I was introduced to an 86 year old woman in a cafe this morning with a strong German/Austrian accent. She came to the UK from Vienna in '48 and regaled me with stories of how the Austrians were worse than the Germans and how to this day they're still racists who refuse to accept their history.

    She felt great affection for the English. For their friendliness and lack of corruption. She also hated the Tories with a passion almost equalling her loathing for her ex compatriots. She joined the Lib Dems because of Blair and has stuffed envelopes for them when required ever since.

    She said if Corbyn won the leadership she would rejoin Labour and die happy!

    It almost tempted me to pay my £3

    Shame that she didn't recognise:

    - it was a Tory administration that declared war on Germany
    - it was a Tory PM who won the war
    - the majority of her years of living in England have been under Tory rule

    I'd be pretty thankful to the Tories in that situation.

    Wasn't it also a Tory administration who believed in appeasement, as well? Chamberlain declaring 'peace for our time' and all that. I also recall learning that upon his election in January 1933, many Conservatives thought of Hitler as a counter-weight to USSR.

    And wasn't Churchill leading a coalition government during the war? In any case, a single man did not singlehandedly 'win the war'. Unless you really believe that Russian and American involvement was minor.

    A majority of her years may well have been under Tory rule, but it doesn't mean that those years have been beneficial for her personally, or indeed the country.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    :lol:
    Disraeli said:

    Meanwhile OGH has info on the polling on a Kendall-led Labour Party:
    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/631121092309086208

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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    JEO said:

    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    Bob

    "My only worry is that Corbs may prove massively more popular with the wider electorate than anyone ever envisaged....."

    I was introduced to an 86 year old woman in a cafe this morning with a strong German/Austrian accent. She came to the UK from Vienna in '48 and regaled me with stories of how the Austrians were worse than the Germans and how to this day they're still racists who refuse to accept their history.

    She felt great affection for the English. For their friendliness and lack of corruption. She also hated the Tories with a passion almost equalling her loathing for her ex compatriots. She joined the Lib Dems because of Blair and has stuffed envelopes for them when required ever since.

    She said if Corbyn won the leadership she would rejoin Labour and die happy!

    It almost tempted me to pay my £3

    Shame that she didn't recognise:

    - it was a Tory administration that declared war on Germany
    - it was a Tory PM who won the war
    - the majority of her years of living in England have been under Tory rule

    I'd be pretty thankful to the Tories in that situation.

    Quite. It was the Jeremy Corbyn's of this world that were trying get on with Germany by appealing to the Nazis better nature. Just as the man himself does with Chavez and Hamas.
    Hamas are just an armed group. Terrorists, revolutionaries, insurgents, freedom fighters - the designation is entirely subjective. Most of the groups we support in Syria are worse - and those are the nicer ones.

    The designation is subjective but there's a clear difference between groups which are driven to use violence in an oppressive regime that offers no alternative but are willing to talk if that alternative is offered, and groups which use violence as a means of imposing a settlement on a people.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited August 2015
    An early venison, shurely?

    I once managed to autocorrect all mentions of *initiative* into *natives* in a £50m bid document.
    ydoethur said:

    Mr. Eagles, even auto-correct has a better grasp of classical history than you :p

    Auto-correct once turned "Hermes" in to "Herpes"

    Auto-correct is the bane of my life
    My father was once writing a report on animal welfare on a particular farm. Auto correct managed to turn every incident of 'pigs' into 'piss' and references to a Charolais bull into a 'Cheerless' bull.

    It was a very early version, but even so...
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JohnRentoul: "Life expectancy gap between rich & poor areas fell under [neoliberal crypto-Tories]" http://t.co/3LbglH7TQq Vote Corbyn: stop this nonsense
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    MrsB said:

    I've been away without internet access for two weeks. I have come backto discover that my £50 on the Labour party not being stupid enough to elect Andy Burnham appears to be somewhat safer than than I might have thought a few weeks ago.


    Oh no, it's quite stupid enough to do that if it's stupid enough to elect Corbyn. It just isn't going to.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,100
    Disraeli said:

    Meanwhile OGH has info on the polling on a Kendall-led Labour Party:
    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/631121092309086208

    And if you Baxter Con 71%...

    ....well, Ave It will like the Bootle result!
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    edited August 2015

    ydoethur said:

    Mr. Eagles, even auto-correct has a better grasp of classical history than you :p

    Auto-correct once turned "Hermes" in to "Herpes"

    Auto-correct is the bane of my life
    My father was once writing a report on animal welfare on a particular farm. Auto correct managed to turn every incident of 'pigs' into 'piss' and references to a Charolais bull into a 'Cheerless' bull.

    It was a very early version, but even so...
    A few years ago, I was planning to visit my parents, but ended up having to delay, one day, I texted her

    "All being well, I should be coming home tonight"

    Except the phone turned it into

    "All being well, I should be coming good tonight"

    My sweet innocent mother, rang me up and said, what did your text mean, that you'd be coming good tonight
    Oh good grief, I concede the field.

    That's even better than the time at Aberystwyth that a young female student, who had much enjoyed herself with her boyfriend the previous night, sent him an email saying how much she had enjoyed herself and how much she loved him. Unfortunately she forgot that student emails had a number on the end, and sent it to a very senior member of staff instead.

    EDIT - I was not involved, in any way, shape or form. I just got told about it by one of the people who WAS involved.

    @Plato's early venison and bonds going native are very impressive too!
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    On Corbyn: I can't vote for someone who has that kind of attitude to Russia. That's Kippersque, FGS.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    What will we do if Corbyn doesn't win now?!

    Disraeli said:

    Meanwhile OGH has info on the polling on a Kendall-led Labour Party:
    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/631121092309086208

    And if you Baxter Con 71%...

    ....well, Ave It will like the Bootle result!
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    This doesn't look good.....

    The team doctor for the U.S. squad at last week’s World Junior Rowing Championships says she believes 13 team members suffered stomach illnesses after competing in the polluted Rio lake that will host aquatic events at next year’s Olympics.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/08/11/u-s-rowing-coach-says-american-team-got-sick-from-rios-contaminated-water/
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    Me neither. But it is.

    Plato said:

    I still can't quite believe this is happening.

    In some ways it was always going to happen - partly because the membership (well a lot of the new ones anyway) and activists are more left-wing than MPs and the Labour party establishment. But it is also a consequence of other fractions of the party - the moderate Labour Left, Brownites, Blairites - not being able to put up any inspiring candidates, who can conduct competent campaigns, and who can offer a credible alternative to the Tories. Liz Kendall isn't really offering an alternative; she is simply conceding ground on certain issues - but she has very little ideas of her own that would actually differentiate Labour as a different party from the Tories. Yvette Cooper and Andy Burnham have said literally nothing since the campaign started. Corbyn is the only one running a competent campaign, the only one outlining any ideas, and the only one offering an alternative. He is literally in a race by himself, and that's why he is winning.

    Of course YG could be wrong. But that seems doubtful.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,807

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    @NCPoliticsUK: ICM/Guardian:

    CON 40 (+2)
    LAB 31 (-3)
    LIB 7 (+1)
    UKIP 10 (-3)
    GRN 4 (=)
    SNP 5 (+1)

    Note: New methodology

    Labour on 31? I think the new methodology may still need some tweaking.
    Wait till Corbyn gets going.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the figure wasn't 25-27% by the time of next year's local elections.
    I was speaking to some politically active people today, one Labour, one Tory, they said, they reckon Labour will be polling around 30% if Corbyn is elected leader.

    What they think will happen is a huge chunk of the Con to UKIP switchers will go back to the Tories, and the Tories will be polling in the mid 40s.

    Do you think that's possible?
    I think it's only likely if Labour looked like it could win, under Corbyn. I don't think that would be a realistic possibility. Back in 1983, the Conservatives were almost on 50%, three weeks out from the election, but the expectation of an easy victory allowed some more leftward Conservatives to vote for the Alliance instead. They knew they weren't risking anything, and I expect most UKIP supporters would take the same view.

    I think that in some Conservative-held marginals, though, UKIP supporters would switch to the Conservatives to ensure Labour didn't get back in. In turn, I think some Conservatives would switch behind UKIP to knock out Labour, in seats where UKIP are in second place to Labour, and the Conservatives are third.

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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Jailbird Vicky Pryce on todays Radio 4's Great Lives, as the Greek rent-a-quote. Funny how she's still in their address book.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    edited August 2015
    A Corbyn lead Labour party probably increases it's majorities in Liverpool Wavertree, East Ham and Glasgow North East too, meaning that the likes of Gedling; Barrow and Plymouth Moor View could well go.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,719
    I'd agree with those who'd foresee a Lab bump for awhile if Corbyn takes over, at least initially once he gets going. He's not very impressive as far as I can see, but he is different and there are things for the Tories to trip up on. But how long it would last is another matter - the leaders are samey as usually it works.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,100
    Scott_P said:

    @JohnRentoul: "Life expectancy gap between rich & poor areas fell under [neoliberal crypto-Tories]" http://t.co/3LbglH7TQq Vote Corbyn: stop this nonsense

    Tories eating their own babies?
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,391

    On Corbyn: I can't vote for someone who has that kind of attitude to Russia. That's Kippersque, FGS.

    That piece says he campaigned against the deportation of a Chechen rebel to Russia, clearly he doesn't have *that* attitude to Russia, he's simply taking a balanced and statesmanlike view of the situation in contrast to our mainsteam press and political class. But then I suppose that is Kipperesque.

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    Disraeli said:

    Meanwhile OGH has info on the polling on a Kendall-led Labour Party:
    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/631121092309086208

    I know there was talk of a one party state, but the Real and Fake Tories combined total of 71% is rather impressive :-)
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Scott_P said:

    @JohnRentoul: "Life expectancy gap between rich & poor areas fell under [neoliberal crypto-Tories]" http://t.co/3LbglH7TQq Vote Corbyn: stop this nonsense

    Tories eating their own babies?
    They just give them to Planned Parenthood
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,100
    Plato said:

    What will we do if Corbyn doesn't win now?!

    Disraeli said:

    Meanwhile OGH has info on the polling on a Kendall-led Labour Party:
    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/631121092309086208

    And if you Baxter Con 71%...

    ....well, Ave It will like the Bootle result!
    Demand our three quid back, of course!
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    IAAF suspends 28 athletes after 'adverse findings' in retests

    Twenty-eight athletes who competed at the 2005 and 2007 World Championships

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33867962

    In other words most likely to be now retired / over the hill athletes then...just a bit of a minor oversight there by the IAAF.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    I think Labour will be down on the betting, whilst half the party runs round like headless chickens, and will then realise things aren't quite as bad as they'd imagined.

    We'll then have a few years to wait for the party to be over.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,807
    Tim_B said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JohnRentoul: "Life expectancy gap between rich & poor areas fell under [neoliberal crypto-Tories]" http://t.co/3LbglH7TQq Vote Corbyn: stop this nonsense

    Tories eating their own babies?
    They just give them to Planned Parenthood
    Or sell them into slavery.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,391

    JEO said:

    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    Bob

    "My only worry is that Corbs may prove massively more popular with the wider electorate than anyone ever envisaged....."

    I was introduced to an 86 year old woman in a cafe this morning with a strong German/Austrian accent. She came to the UK from Vienna in '48 and regaled me with stories of how the Austrians were worse than the Germans and how to this day they're still racists who refuse to accept their history.

    She felt great affection for the English. For their friendliness and lack of corruption. She also hated the Tories with a passion almost equalling her loathing for her ex compatriots. She joined the Lib Dems because of Blair and has stuffed envelopes for them when required ever since.

    She said if Corbyn won the leadership she would rejoin Labour and die happy!

    It almost tempted me to pay my £3

    Shame that she didn't recognise:

    - it was a Tory administration that declared war on Germany
    - it was a Tory PM who won the war
    - the majority of her years of living in England have been under Tory rule

    I'd be pretty thankful to the Tories in that situation.

    Quite. It was the Jeremy Corbyn's of this world that were trying get on with Germany by appealing to the Nazis better nature. Just as the man himself does with Chavez and Hamas.
    Hamas are just an armed group. Terrorists, revolutionaries, insurgents, freedom fighters - the designation is entirely subjective. Most of the groups we support in Syria are worse - and those are the nicer ones.

    The designation is subjective but there's a clear difference between groups which are driven to use violence in an oppressive regime that offers no alternative but are willing to talk if that alternative is offered, and groups which use violence as a means of imposing a settlement on a people.
    No there isn't. The degree to which a regime is oppressive is also entirely subjective.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @spectator: How Jeremy Corbyn could destroy the Tories (yes, really) http://t.co/2PLaRYu3AI
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    isamisam Posts: 40,915

    Talking about Christianity, as someone who generally mocks religion, can I say, the teacher stabbed in Bradford, using his faith, has shown dignity and forgiveness towards the kid that tried to kill him/wound him that I probably would never be able to show.

    What links this young kid and lee rigbys murderers more than their religion is their heavy cannabis use
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    I just registered my "support" :)
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    MrsBMrsB Posts: 574
    @pulpstar Glad you've kept a record - I wrote it down somewhere but it was so long ago that I have lost the details. I really never thought it would be Corbyn that beat Burnham - I had in mind Chuka Umunna or Alan Johnson i.e. a sensible candidate.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    I just registered my "support" :)

    Did you wash it first? ;)
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Recycling is all the rage, donchaknow.

    Scott_P said:

    @JohnRentoul: "Life expectancy gap between rich & poor areas fell under [neoliberal crypto-Tories]" http://t.co/3LbglH7TQq Vote Corbyn: stop this nonsense

    Tories eating their own babies?
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Seb Coe made an arse of himself about this the other week.

    IAAF suspends 28 athletes after 'adverse findings' in retests

    Twenty-eight athletes who competed at the 2005 and 2007 World Championships

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33867962

    In other words most likely to be now retired / over the hill athletes then...just a bit of a minor oversight there by the IAAF.

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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    Scott_P said:

    @spectator: How Jeremy Corbyn could destroy the Tories (yes, really) http://t.co/2PLaRYu3AI

    It's a reasonable point.

    If Corybn becomes leader, then it will be a sea change in British politics. That will end up changing the tory party as well, it has to.

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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Red on Red.

    Campbell v Corbyn.

    What fun.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,915

    Scott_P said:

    @spectator: How Jeremy Corbyn could destroy the Tories (yes, really) http://t.co/2PLaRYu3AI

    It's a reasonable point.

    If Corybn becomes leader, then it will be a sea change in British politics. That will end up changing the tory party as well, it has to.

    I made this point before the election, I will find the post to prove it!
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937

    watford30 said:

    DavidL said:

    Surely the time has come to start automating tube lines wherever possible without delay?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-33866704

    If the fading star of Boris wants to shine again it is obvious what he should do.

    He'll do nothing. A bit of huffing and puffing, and then back to his other jobs.
    He'll do nothing as there's nothing that can be done , at least safely. If you get rid of the drivers, then they'll just have to be replaced with DLR-style 'train captains' / 'Passenger Service Agent', who'll just go on strike.
    Is that right, Mr. J? I am fairly certain I have travelled on the DLR when there was nobody in the front cab? Whether one needs "rain captains"/"passenger service agents" or, as we used to call them, "guards", is a matter for local legislation not safety. The metro-thing in Miami (aka the Mugger Mover) never had them and I am sure there are other metro systems around the word that don't either.

    I remember when it was suggested that the London Underground could function quite safely without guards. There was hell to pay, but it happened eventually and even the RMT is not campaigning to bring them back. Drivers will go the same way.

    Crikey, my son and I have a bet on which driver of a road motor vehicle job will be the first to be rendered obsolete by the driverless technology Google and others now have under development. He, full of the idealism of youth, reckons it will be HGV drivers. I, being old and cynical, think it will be taxi drivers. I fully expect to be alive long enough to collect my winnings.

    The skills required of London Underground drivers pale into insignificance in comparison to what Google have already achieved. They will be gone inside 10 years.
    Yep, it's right. They don't have to be in the front cab, and will usually be found with their keys ready to open / close the doors.

    As for Google: AIUI they've done little except clock up hundreds of thousands of miles on freeways, with very little complex inner-city driving. Smoke 'n mirrors.

    http://www.technologyreview.com/news/530276/hidden-obstacles-for-googles-self-driving-cars/
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BBCPM: NEXT on @BBCPM @campbellclaret and @labourlewis in debate #Labour
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    edited August 2015
    2017 watch:

    Nuneaton and Bedworth to NOC....
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    ICM poll

    Conservatives 40% Labour 31% LibDems 7% UKIP 10% SNP 5% Green Party 4% Others 2%

    30.4% for Lab at GE2015, 29.0% at GE 2010!
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    Scott_P said:

    @JohnRentoul: "Life expectancy gap between rich & poor areas fell under [neoliberal crypto-Tories]" http://t.co/3LbglH7TQq Vote Corbyn: stop this nonsense

    Tories eating their own babies?
    Some vegetarian baby-substitute for me, please :)
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    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191

    ICM poll

    Conservatives 40% Labour 31% LibDems 7% UKIP 10% SNP 5% Green Party 4% Others 2%

    30.4% for Lab at GE2015, 29.0% at GE 2010!
    Someone will be on to explain how this is demonstrably Good For Labour soon.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,190
    rcs1000 said:

    LucyJones said:

    Don't know whether this has already been mentioned, but it seems that Kids Company may have been running unregulated schools. This would be a criminal offence, if true.

    "This means while Kids Company boss Camila Batmanghelidjh was trying to obtain a £3million emergency bailout from the Cabinet Office in July, there was no way of knowing if the charity was operating the school with authorisation and oversight, the lack of which could be illegal. "
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/597373/Officials-probing-if-Kids-Company-school-was-UNREGULATED-when-ministers-paid-out-3m

    I though the allegation of the day regarding that so-called charity was that two of the trustees had children on the payroll to the tune of fifty grand. That is just so mind-bogglingly wrong that, if it were true, one would hope that said trustees would be dropped from any and all other posts they may have and be shunned from polite society. They will not be of course and the whole KC debacle will be brushed under the carpet - far too many of the "great and the good" and friends of the "great and the good" are involved.
    What's astonishing is that there are so many issues, and that none of them surfaced before the charity went tits up.
    They did but much like Mr Maxwell, whom she increasingly seems to resemble, CB was adept at using expensive lawyers to quash any unflattering stories.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,190

    JEO said:

    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    Bob

    "My only worry is that Corbs may prove massively more popular with the wider electorate than anyone ever envisaged....."

    I was introduced to an 86 year old woman in a cafe this morning with a strong German/Austrian accent. She came to the UK from Vienna in '48 and regaled me with stories of how the Austrians were worse than the Germans and how to this day they're still racists who refuse to accept their history.

    She felt great affection for the English. For their friendliness and lack of corruption. She also hated the Tories with a passion almost equalling her loathing for her ex compatriots. She joined the Lib Dems because of Blair and has stuffed envelopes for them when required ever since.

    She said if Corbyn won the leadership she would rejoin Labour and die happy!

    It almost tempted me to pay my £3

    Shame that she didn't recognise:

    - it was a Tory administration that declared war on Germany
    - it was a Tory PM who won the war
    - the majority of her years of living in England have been under Tory rule

    I'd be pretty thankful to the Tories in that situation.

    Quite. It was the Jeremy Corbyn's of this world that were trying get on with Germany by appealing to the Nazis better nature. Just as the man himself does with Chavez and Hamas.
    Hamas are just an armed group. Terrorists, revolutionaries, insurgents, freedom fighters - the designation is entirely subjective. Most of the groups we support in Syria are worse - and those are the nicer ones.

    The designation is subjective but there's a clear difference between groups which are driven to use violence in an oppressive regime that offers no alternative but are willing to talk if that alternative is offered, and groups which use violence as a means of imposing a settlement on a people.
    No there isn't. The degree to which a regime is oppressive is also entirely subjective.
    What utter rubbish.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Swinney. Financial genius...

    @HTScotPol: SNP had record £7m income last year and still ended up £500k in the red, new accounts show http://t.co/Kj2upUZEjR http://t.co/qLdGfiRCGh
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    ICM poll

    Conservatives 40% Labour 31% LibDems 7% UKIP 10% SNP 5% Green Party 4% Others 2%

    30.4% for Lab at GE2015, 29.0% at GE 2010!
    At that tate Lab should be in power in 2040 or so...
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