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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Trade union machinations to help Corbyn aren’t necessary –

SystemSystem Posts: 6,199
edited August 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Trade union machinations to help Corbyn aren’t necessary – if YouGov is right he’ll win easily anyway

The mail-pack featured above, from the GMB union to those of its members entitled to vote in Labour’s last leadership election, played a pivotal role in 2010 in securing the prize for the younger Miliband brother.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 764
    edited August 2015
    Labour look as though they are sleep walking to disaster in this leadership election.

    Where is the man who saved the world, saved the banks?

    General Gordon. Your Party Needs You!
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 4,552
    Not sure if posted - couldn't see it.

    ICM:

    Con 40
    Lab 31
    LD 7
    UKIP 10
    Green 4

    It's been put on Wiki with the wrong numbers.

    http://www.icmunlimited.com/data/media/pdf/2015_august_guardian_poll.pdf
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 860
    edited August 2015
    The Communication Workers Union had 258696 members in 2005 - as of the 2014 union annual return it now has just 197462 members. Put in mind this is before the Royal Mail privatisation has even completed and no doubt continuing letter volume decline will only drive further efficiencies during the next 5 years.

    The letter market is in terminal decline and the parcel market is very competitive.

    It is not an 'essential' public service and with a current market cap of 5.002B renationalisation just seems absurd. Corbyn has well and truly capitulated to the short-termist demands of a declining union struggling to maintain remaining any shred relevance.
  • Ed Milliband looks a political giant next to the four people battling for his job. Whole thing is desperately sad.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 3,940
    What ever the answer to Labour's current problems are, its not a Gordon Brown intervention. But speaking equally tongue in cheek, I do find it ironic from a Scottish perspective that both the current Labour and SNP party grass roots share a loathing for any key personal involved in the Labour party when they were winning elections.
    stjohn said:

    Labour look as though they are sleep walking to disaster in this leadership election.

    Where is the man who saved the world, saved the banks?

    General Gordon. Your Party Needs You!

  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 3,940
    Is this the monthly Guardian ICM poll?
    MikeL said:

    Not sure if posted - couldn't see it.

    ICM:

    Con 40
    Lab 31
    LD 7
    UKIP 10
    Green 4

    It's been put on Wiki with the wrong numbers.

    http://www.icmunlimited.com/data/media/pdf/2015_august_guardian_poll.pdf

  • PaulyPauly Posts: 860
    fitalass said:

    Is this the monthly Guardian ICM poll?

    MikeL said:

    Not sure if posted - couldn't see it.

    ICM:

    Con 40
    Lab 31
    LD 7
    UKIP 10
    Green 4

    It's been put on Wiki with the wrong numbers.

    http://www.icmunlimited.com/data/media/pdf/2015_august_guardian_poll.pdf

    It is and I've fixed the Wiki. Hopefully didn't mess anything else in the process...
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 3,940
    Thanks @Pauly.
    Pauly said:

    fitalass said:

    Is this the monthly Guardian ICM poll?

    MikeL said:

    Not sure if posted - couldn't see it.

    ICM:

    Con 40
    Lab 31
    LD 7
    UKIP 10
    Green 4

    It's been put on Wiki with the wrong numbers.

    http://www.icmunlimited.com/data/media/pdf/2015_august_guardian_poll.pdf

    It is and I've fixed the Wiki. Hopefully didn't mess anything else in the process...
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    a couple of great scenes from Thunderball

    Still quite near the knuckle 50 years later...



  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 29,057
    RodCrosby said:

    a couple of great scenes from Thunderball

    Still quite near the knuckle 50 years later...

    I nagged my parents to be allowed to watch it - my comment afterwards was it was quite exciting but I didn't understand why James Bond always ended up talking to ladies in bed - and was told 'because its more comfortable' - that was the last James Bond film I saw for a few years.....
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,820
    I missed the discussion on Bond, but OHMSS, FYEO and FRWL have to be the best...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 32,851
    Charles said:

    I missed the discussion on Bond, but OHMSS, FYEO and FRWL have to be the best...

    You've missed possibly the greatest: EICIPM
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,820
    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    I missed the discussion on Bond, but OHMSS, FYEO and FRWL have to be the best...

    You've missed possibly the greatest: EICIPM
    Look up bond: victory on youtube. It's a very enjoyable video
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 860
    Just read this on The New Statesman, couldn't control the laughter:

    A putsch against Corbyn raises the fear, as one MP gloomily observes, “of him just winning again”, leaving them looking both “unelectable and fucking stupid”
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11797483/MPs-will-refuse-to-fill-Labour-front-bench-under-Jeremy-Corbyn-shadow-cabinet-ministers-claim.html

    I predicted on here a few weeks back that if Corbyn wins the party will split, it now seems inevitable.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 3,940
    edited August 2015
    Sean Connery was by far the best actor in the role of Bond as penned by Ian Fleming until Daniel Craig came along to give him a run for his money. Those actors who featured in-between gave audiences entertainment in spades, and a lot of action filled laughs. But I doubt that was ever Ian Fleming's intention when he created the original character who played Bond, I suspect that Connery and Craig would have been his favourite actors to fill the role too.

    RodCrosby said:

    a couple of great scenes from Thunderball

    Still quite near the knuckle 50 years later...

    I nagged my parents to be allowed to watch it - my comment afterwards was it was quite exciting but I didn't understand why James Bond always ended up talking to ladies in bed - and was told 'because its more comfortable' - that was the last James Bond film I saw for a few years.....
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 3,940
    edited August 2015
    I have to admit that if pushed, my two favourites Bond movies between the Connery and Craig films would be OHMSS and FYEO, also two of the best Bond soundtracks as well. We Have All The Time In The World is my favourite all time song.
    Charles said:

    I missed the discussion on Bond, but OHMSS, FYEO and FRWL have to be the best...

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,532
    fitalass said:

    Sean Connery was by far the best actor in the role of Bond as penned by Ian Fleming until Daniel Craig came along to give him a run for his money. Those actors who featured in-between gave audiences entertainment in spades, and a lot of action filled laughs. But I doubt that was ever Ian Fleming's intention when he created the original character who played Bond, I suspect that Connery and Craig would have been his favourite actors to fill the role too.

    RodCrosby said:

    a couple of great scenes from Thunderball

    Still quite near the knuckle 50 years later...

    I nagged my parents to be allowed to watch it - my comment afterwards was it was quite exciting but I didn't understand why James Bond always ended up talking to ladies in bed - and was told 'because its more comfortable' - that was the last James Bond film I saw for a few years.....
    No he wasn't.

    Timothy Dalton would have been his favourite.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,532
    Corbyn is still a steal at 1.5 on Betfair IMHO. But, sadly, I'm out of betting funds for the month now.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,820

    fitalass said:

    Sean Connery was by far the best actor in the role of Bond as penned by Ian Fleming until Daniel Craig came along to give him a run for his money. Those actors who featured in-between gave audiences entertainment in spades, and a lot of action filled laughs. But I doubt that was ever Ian Fleming's intention when he created the original character who played Bond, I suspect that Connery and Craig would have been his favourite actors to fill the role too.

    RodCrosby said:

    a couple of great scenes from Thunderball

    Still quite near the knuckle 50 years later...

    I nagged my parents to be allowed to watch it - my comment afterwards was it was quite exciting but I didn't understand why James Bond always ended up talking to ladies in bed - and was told 'because its more comfortable' - that was the last James Bond film I saw for a few years.....
    No he wasn't.

    Timothy Dalton would have been his favourite.
    I can't take Dalton seriously after watching him in Flash Gordon: wearing green tights and sticking his arm into a papier mache tree trunk while pretending to be scared...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,820
    Pauly said:

    Just read this on The New Statesman, couldn't control the laughter:

    A putsch against Corbyn raises the fear, as one MP gloomily observes, “of him just winning again”, leaving them looking both “unelectable and fucking stupid”

    Surely, though, if they have a coup they wouldn't nominate him to stand again.

    Unless they really, really fucking stupid...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,532
    Charles said:

    fitalass said:

    Sean Connery was by far the best actor in the role of Bond as penned by Ian Fleming until Daniel Craig came along to give him a run for his money. Those actors who featured in-between gave audiences entertainment in spades, and a lot of action filled laughs. But I doubt that was ever Ian Fleming's intention when he created the original character who played Bond, I suspect that Connery and Craig would have been his favourite actors to fill the role too.

    RodCrosby said:

    a couple of great scenes from Thunderball

    Still quite near the knuckle 50 years later...

    I nagged my parents to be allowed to watch it - my comment afterwards was it was quite exciting but I didn't understand why James Bond always ended up talking to ladies in bed - and was told 'because its more comfortable' - that was the last James Bond film I saw for a few years.....
    No he wasn't.

    Timothy Dalton would have been his favourite.
    I can't take Dalton seriously after watching him in Flash Gordon: wearing green tights and sticking his arm into a papier mache tree trunk while pretending to be scared...
    Didn't you see Sean Connery in Darby O'Gill and the Little People?

    Every actor has embarrassing films in their portfolio they're not proud of.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 1,750

    Ed Milliband looks a political giant next to the four people battling for his job. Whole thing is desperately sad.

    The question should be : why are the candidates so sh!te? In a healthy organisation, the 4 candidates battling for the top job should be the 4 most capable and competent individuals.

    I genuinely wonder if Cooper’s heart is in this, and I think she will be relieved when she loses.

    Burnham does seem not very bright (lending votes to Corbyn to get him on the ballot, duh). I have come round to believe OGH is right on Andy - he’s a complete wally who is not very smart at politics and the Tories will whack him out of the park.

    Kendall has been hugely disappointing, she may be ambitious, but she lacks any of Blair's (1997) redeeming qualities of intelligence, charisma and empathy. Awful.

    Given the choice, I’d vote for Corbyn. Whilst I don’t agree with some of his policies, he is the best of the four and -- if he is willing to be consensual -- I could imagine it working out fine.

    Most left-wingers turn out to be more right-wing when actually faced with the problems of government (vide Harold Wilson)
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,599
    My postbag still splitting between Corbyn and Cooper, nobody else mentioned lately. Some real head and heart agonising going on.

    Typical email from a member who still likes Tony Blair:

    "A grandson asked what I thought of Corbyn and as I answered I realised that was where I will cast my vote. He has inspired something good at grass roots. Even if we remain in the wilderness, there would be something clearly honest and wholesome at the centre."

    and from a member who is further left than the first one but will go for Yvette:

    "When faced with a political dilemma, I often have 2 responses: first comes the “kneejerk” response and the socialist in me emerges (Corbynesque), however, a longer consideration brings me back to what can be achieved through persuading others at which point my response becomes “Mandlesonesque”.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 3,940
    Sorry, but Dalton was my least favourite Bond out of the lot of them, and I know he tried very hard to be that great act as the real Fleming 'Bond'. Maybe it was the movies he starred in, but both Connery and Craig really got it I think.

    fitalass said:

    Sean Connery was by far the best actor in the role of Bond as penned by Ian Fleming until Daniel Craig came along to give him a run for his money. Those actors who featured in-between gave audiences entertainment in spades, and a lot of action filled laughs. But I doubt that was ever Ian Fleming's intention when he created the original character who played Bond, I suspect that Connery and Craig would have been his favourite actors to fill the role too.

    RodCrosby said:

    a couple of great scenes from Thunderball

    Still quite near the knuckle 50 years later...

    I nagged my parents to be allowed to watch it - my comment afterwards was it was quite exciting but I didn't understand why James Bond always ended up talking to ladies in bed - and was told 'because its more comfortable' - that was the last James Bond film I saw for a few years.....
    No he wasn't.

    Timothy Dalton would have been his favourite.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 14,167
    fitalass said:

    Sean Connery was by far the best actor in the role of Bond as penned by Ian Fleming until Daniel Craig came along to give him a run for his money. Those actors who featured in-between gave audiences entertainment in spades, and a lot of action filled laughs. But I doubt that was ever Ian Fleming's intention when he created the original character who played Bond, I suspect that Connery and Craig would have been his favourite actors to fill the role too.

    RodCrosby said:

    a couple of great scenes from Thunderball

    Still quite near the knuckle 50 years later...

    I nagged my parents to be allowed to watch it - my comment afterwards was it was quite exciting but I didn't understand why James Bond always ended up talking to ladies in bed - and was told 'because its more comfortable' - that was the last James Bond film I saw for a few years.....
    As written, Timothy Dalton was as true to the book as the earlier Connery ones.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 29,057
    fitalass said:

    Sean Connery was by far the best actor in the role of Bond as penned by Ian Fleming until Daniel Craig came along to give him a run for his money. Those actors who featured in-between gave audiences entertainment in spades, and a lot of action filled laughs. But I doubt that was ever Ian Fleming's intention when he created the original character who played Bond, I suspect that Connery and Craig would have been his favourite actors to fill the role too.

    RodCrosby said:

    a couple of great scenes from Thunderball

    Still quite near the knuckle 50 years later...

    I nagged my parents to be allowed to watch it - my comment afterwards was it was quite exciting but I didn't understand why James Bond always ended up talking to ladies in bed - and was told 'because its more comfortable' - that was the last James Bond film I saw for a few years.....
    Roger Moore was fun (but not Bond, far too 'nice') and played him rather long - 58 for his final outing was pushing it a bit. Brosnan had the looks, but not the acting skills - I agree Craig is the only one who comes close to Connery's suave menace. I don;t know why Dalton (who certainly can act) didn't fit comfortably into the role.

    The Bond franchise is still comfortably ahead of Star Wars in (inflation adjusted) box office
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    fitalass said:

    I have to admit that if pushed, my two favourites Bond movies between the Connery and Craig films would be OHMSS and FYEO, also two of the best Bond soundtracks as well. We Have All The Time In The World is my favourite all time song.

    Charles said:

    I missed the discussion on Bond, but OHMSS, FYEO and FRWL have to be the best...

    I think we have the scriptwriters to blame for those cheesy and embarrassingly funny moments. I know that the Fleming family liked Connery, but find Craig over-violent, too hard, lacks sophistication and not in the style as Ian Fleming knew the service. It all depends whether you wish to freeze the stories in time or progress with time.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,820

    Charles said:

    fitalass said:

    Sean Connery was by far the best actor in the role of Bond as penned by Ian Fleming until Daniel Craig came along to give him a run for his money. Those actors who featured in-between gave audiences entertainment in spades, and a lot of action filled laughs. But I doubt that was ever Ian Fleming's intention when he created the original character who played Bond, I suspect that Connery and Craig would have been his favourite actors to fill the role too.

    RodCrosby said:

    a couple of great scenes from Thunderball

    Still quite near the knuckle 50 years later...

    I nagged my parents to be allowed to watch it - my comment afterwards was it was quite exciting but I didn't understand why James Bond always ended up talking to ladies in bed - and was told 'because its more comfortable' - that was the last James Bond film I saw for a few years.....
    No he wasn't.

    Timothy Dalton would have been his favourite.
    I can't take Dalton seriously after watching him in Flash Gordon: wearing green tights and sticking his arm into a papier mache tree trunk while pretending to be scared...
    Didn't you see Sean Connery in Darby O'Gill and the Little People?

    Every actor has embarrassing films in their portfolio they're not proud of.
    That film wasn't top of my bucket list, no.

    But if I had to go for a single film it would be OHMSS. Lazenby had his faults, but the story actually gave some perspectives into why Bond is so messed up. Skyfall tried to do the same, but much less successfully.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 14,167
    Pauly said:

    The Communication Workers Union had 258696 members in 2005 - as of the 2014 union annual return it now has just 197462 members. Put in mind this is before the Royal Mail privatisation has even completed and no doubt continuing letter volume decline will only drive further efficiencies during the next 5 years.

    The letter market is in terminal decline and the parcel market is very competitive.

    It is not an 'essential' public service and with a current market cap of 5.002B renationalisation just seems absurd. Corbyn has well and truly capitulated to the short-termist demands of a declining union struggling to maintain remaining any shred relevance.

    No, he'd have pushed for renationalisation irrespective of the union shouting. Or the facts, for that matter. It's just what he stands for. Corbyn's campaign is not being pushed from the centre by members of the far left in the unions; he was always in the far left.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,820
    Question for the day: who was the first person to play Bond on broadcast media?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,599
    Remarkable illustration of cultural difference across the pond: child banned from speaking to other children due to insufficient belief in God:

    http://www.rt.com/usa/311664-school-child-lawsuit-god/

  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 14,167
    On topic, if the behaviour of the unions re signing voters up is right, it is more likely to undermine Corbyn's win than contribute to it. The first objective is obviously to win within the rules but once that's been achieved, the aim should be to be seen to have won with as much authority and as few doubts as possible. The unions are introducing doubts which might later be used against him if the MPs ever do manage a putsch.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 10,199

    My postbag still splitting between Corbyn and Cooper, nobody else mentioned lately. Some real head and heart agonising going on.

    Typical email from a member who still likes Tony Blair:

    "A grandson asked what I thought of Corbyn and as I answered I realised that was where I will cast my vote. He has inspired something good at grass roots. Even if we remain in the wilderness, there would be something clearly honest and wholesome at the centre."

    and from a member who is further left than the first one but will go for Yvette:

    "When faced with a political dilemma, I often have 2 responses: first comes the “kneejerk” response and the socialist in me emerges (Corbynesque), however, a longer consideration brings me back to what can be achieved through persuading others at which point my response becomes “Mandlesonesque”.

    "Honest and wholesome"? A man who befriends and defends vicious anti-Semites (Raed Salah and Stephen Sizer)? Poor Labour if that is what its supporters think of as honest and wholesome.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Musing about the four Labour leadership candidates, I viewed them as prospective employees and would I employ them.

    I would employ Kendall as she is a thinker and not afraid to put her point forward and would use her in strategic planning. I would employ Corbyn as he would be good at Sales.

    I would not employ either Burnham or Cooper as they would do more damage to my business than any good they may bring. They are neither deep thinkers nor have the ability to instill confidence in my business in my clients.

    Regarding the candidates for deputy, I might employ Flint and Creasy but not really sure. Watson may be useful as an assassin, but I am not in that business.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626

    Remarkable illustration of cultural difference across the pond: child banned from speaking to other children due to insufficient belief in God:

    http://www.rt.com/usa/311664-school-child-lawsuit-god/

    It's jaw dropping, but not surprising.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 3,940
    edited August 2015
    Sighs heavily.... Can you just take it from a woman, Dalton just didn't convey the real Bond suave menace and charm on screen that had women falling at his feet like either Connery or Craig have been able too despite his attempts to be as true to the books as earlier ones!!

    fitalass said:

    Sean Connery was by far the best actor in the role of Bond as penned by Ian Fleming until Daniel Craig came along to give him a run for his money. Those actors who featured in-between gave audiences entertainment in spades, and a lot of action filled laughs. But I doubt that was ever Ian Fleming's intention when he created the original character who played Bond, I suspect that Connery and Craig would have been his favourite actors to fill the role too.

    RodCrosby said:

    a couple of great scenes from Thunderball

    Still quite near the knuckle 50 years later...

    I nagged my parents to be allowed to watch it - my comment afterwards was it was quite exciting but I didn't understand why James Bond always ended up talking to ladies in bed - and was told 'because its more comfortable' - that was the last James Bond film I saw for a few years.....
    As written, Timothy Dalton was as true to the book as the earlier Connery ones.
  • fitalass said:

    Sorry, but Dalton was my least favourite Bond out of the lot of them, and I know he tried very hard to be that great act as the real Fleming 'Bond'. Maybe it was the movies he starred in, but both Connery and Craig really got it I think.

    fitalass said:

    Sean Connery was by far the best actor in the role of Bond as penned by Ian Fleming until Daniel Craig came along to give him a run for his money. Those actors who featured in-between gave audiences entertainment in spades, and a lot of action filled laughs. But I doubt that was ever Ian Fleming's intention when he created the original character who played Bond, I suspect that Connery and Craig would have been his favourite actors to fill the role too.

    RodCrosby said:

    a couple of great scenes from Thunderball

    Still quite near the knuckle 50 years later...

    I nagged my parents to be allowed to watch it - my comment afterwards was it was quite exciting but I didn't understand why James Bond always ended up talking to ladies in bed - and was told 'because its more comfortable' - that was the last James Bond film I saw for a few years.....
    No he wasn't.

    Timothy Dalton would have been his favourite.
    Fleming had David Niven in mind as his ideal Bond.
    Sadly Niven was too old although he did appear as Bond in a Casino Royale travesty.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 31,692

    Charles said:

    fitalass said:

    Sean Connery was by far the best actor in the role of Bond as penned by Ian Fleming until Daniel Craig came along to give him a run for his money. Those actors who featured in-between gave audiences entertainment in spades, and a lot of action filled laughs. But I doubt that was ever Ian Fleming's intention when he created the original character who played Bond, I suspect that Connery and Craig would have been his favourite actors to fill the role too.

    RodCrosby said:

    a couple of great scenes from Thunderball

    Still quite near the knuckle 50 years later...

    I nagged my parents to be allowed to watch it - my comment afterwards was it was quite exciting but I didn't understand why James Bond always ended up talking to ladies in bed - and was told 'because its more comfortable' - that was the last James Bond film I saw for a few years.....
    No he wasn't.

    Timothy Dalton would have been his favourite.
    I can't take Dalton seriously after watching him in Flash Gordon: wearing green tights and sticking his arm into a papier mache tree trunk while pretending to be scared...
    Didn't you see Sean Connery in Darby O'Gill and the Little People?
    Or Zardoz? Remember "the gun is good, the penis is evil"
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 14,167
    I don't think that will happen. For one thing, any MP who nominated Corbyn and then refuses to serve will look a hypocrite and an idiot. For another, if Labour's right and centre stands back then the entire front bench will be filled with oddballs and featherweights, which surely can do Labour no favours - especially if Corbyn does go down a more consensual route and have discussion and voting in the Shadow Cabinet.

    But politics has always had self-correcting mechanisms. Andy Burnham has said he would serve in a Corbyn shadow cabinet. Assuming he sticks to that then that's a big marker to other current front benchers and also Burnham's own supporters.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626

    My postbag still splitting between Corbyn and Cooper, nobody else mentioned lately. Some real head and heart agonising going on.

    Typical email from a member who still likes Tony Blair:

    "A grandson asked what I thought of Corbyn and as I answered I realised that was where I will cast my vote. He has inspired something good at grass roots. Even if we remain in the wilderness, there would be something clearly honest and wholesome at the centre."

    and from a member who is further left than the first one but will go for Yvette:

    "When faced with a political dilemma, I often have 2 responses: first comes the “kneejerk” response and the socialist in me emerges (Corbynesque), however, a longer consideration brings me back to what can be achieved through persuading others at which point my response becomes “Mandlesonesque”.

    Left wing != Honest and wholesome.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 37,208
    Charles said:

    Surely, though, if they have a coup they wouldn't nominate him to stand again.

    Unless they really, really fucking stupid...

    IIRC they don't have to. If he is the leader, he can stand again without being nominated I think.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    edited August 2015
    Financier said:

    Musing about the four Labour leadership candidates, I viewed them as prospective employees and would I employ them.

    I would employ Kendall as she is a thinker and not afraid to put her point forward and would use her in strategic planning. I would employ Corbyn as he would be good at Sales.

    I would not employ either Burnham or Cooper as they would do more damage to my business than any good they may bring. They are neither deep thinkers nor have the ability to instill confidence in my business in my clients.

    Regarding the candidates for deputy, I might employ Flint and Creasy but not really sure. Watson may be useful as an assassin, but I am not in that business.

    I would employ Flint if she were 30 years younger but only to put on the front desk.
    She hasn't got the brains to be a filing or admin bunny.

    Watson would be good as an assassin as eating his targets is a terrific way to dispose of the corpses.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 22,588
    Charles said:

    Question for the day: who was the first person to play Bond on broadcast media?

    Barry Nelson?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 14,167

    Remarkable illustration of cultural difference across the pond: child banned from speaking to other children due to insufficient belief in God:

    http://www.rt.com/usa/311664-school-child-lawsuit-god/

    That's far more common that you probably think over here too. Different god though.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 14,167

    fitalass said:

    Sorry, but Dalton was my least favourite Bond out of the lot of them, and I know he tried very hard to be that great act as the real Fleming 'Bond'. Maybe it was the movies he starred in, but both Connery and Craig really got it I think.

    fitalass said:

    Sean Connery was by far the best actor in the role of Bond as penned by Ian Fleming until Daniel Craig came along to give him a run for his money. Those actors who featured in-between gave audiences entertainment in spades, and a lot of action filled laughs. But I doubt that was ever Ian Fleming's intention when he created the original character who played Bond, I suspect that Connery and Craig would have been his favourite actors to fill the role too.

    RodCrosby said:

    a couple of great scenes from Thunderball

    Still quite near the knuckle 50 years later...

    I nagged my parents to be allowed to watch it - my comment afterwards was it was quite exciting but I didn't understand why James Bond always ended up talking to ladies in bed - and was told 'because its more comfortable' - that was the last James Bond film I saw for a few years.....
    No he wasn't.

    Timothy Dalton would have been his favourite.
    Fleming had David Niven in mind as his ideal Bond.
    Sadly Niven was too old although he did appear as Bond in a Casino Royale travesty.
    I thought he had Cary Grant as his ideal actor? (and I can see that above Niven who never really had the physical presence for a Bond).
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 860
    Scott_P said:

    Charles said:

    Surely, though, if they have a coup they wouldn't nominate him to stand again.

    Unless they really, really fucking stupid...

    IIRC they don't have to. If he is the leader, he can stand again without being nominated I think.
    If that is the case they're screwed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 42,735
    Apart from cafes and hotels anything Corbyn wouldn't nationalise?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 10,613
    Charles said:

    Pauly said:

    Just read this on The New Statesman, couldn't control the laughter:

    A putsch against Corbyn raises the fear, as one MP gloomily observes, “of him just winning again”, leaving them looking both “unelectable and fucking stupid”

    Surely, though, if they have a coup they wouldn't nominate him to stand again.

    Unless they really, really fucking stupid...
    As I understand it, unlike the Conservative rules where a leader ousted by a vote of confidence is barred from standing, the Labour leader remains on the ballot if a leadership election is forced unless he (it won't be a woman) withdraws.

    So he would be on the ballot, and looking at these numbers would probably win with an even larger majority as a mighty two-fingered salute to the PLP.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 13,660
    edited August 2015

    fitalass said:

    Sorry, but Dalton was my least favourite Bond out of the lot of them, and I know he tried very hard to be that great act as the real Fleming 'Bond'. Maybe it was the movies he starred in, but both Connery and Craig really got it I think.

    fitalass said:

    Sean Connery was by far the best actor in the role of Bond as penned by Ian Fleming until Daniel Craig came along to give him a run for his money. Those actors who featured in-between gave audiences entertainment in spades, and a lot of action filled laughs. But I doubt that was ever Ian Fleming's intention when he created the original character who played Bond, I suspect that Connery and Craig would have been his favourite actors to fill the role too.

    RodCrosby said:

    a couple of great scenes from Thunderball

    Still quite near the knuckle 50 years later...

    I nagged my parents to be allowed to watch it - my comment afterwards was it was quite exciting but I didn't understand why James Bond always ended up talking to ladies in bed - and was told 'because its more comfortable' - that was the last James Bond film I saw for a few years.....
    No he wasn't.

    Timothy Dalton would have been his favourite.
    Fleming had David Niven in mind as his ideal Bond.
    Sadly Niven was too old although he did appear as Bond in a Casino Royale travesty.
    Craig is obviously a good actor but they had been scared by Bourne and so went down the all-too-serious route.

    Roger Moore IMO was the quintessential JB - smooth, dashing, a bit puny, physically vulnerable, no "deep" emotions to speak of, plus had that equally essential Bond trait of not taking it all or himself too seriously.

    Who would you like to share a martini with - Moore's Bond or Craig's? For me no contest = Moore's.

    on topic: my ages old 3/1 on Cooper has probably been the median price since (before) the contest started.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 10,613
    O/T but Hilary Clinton has agreed to hand over all her emails, viz. the server.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-33872602

    The question is, will this lance the boil or will it make matters worse? Around half have apparently been deleted - if the FBI decide those include emails that were business rather than personal, that could conceivably be a criminal offence.

    To be candid, this whole episode just shows that Clinton's judgement is appalling and her arrogance is unbelievable (even leaving aside her remarkable incompetence). It's a damning indictment of the quality of the other candidates that she's still the favourite for the presidency.
  • GeoffM said:

    Financier said:

    Musing about the four Labour leadership candidates, I viewed them as prospective employees and would I employ them.

    I would employ Kendall as she is a thinker and not afraid to put her point forward and would use her in strategic planning. I would employ Corbyn as he would be good at Sales.

    I would not employ either Burnham or Cooper as they would do more damage to my business than any good they may bring. They are neither deep thinkers nor have the ability to instill confidence in my business in my clients.

    Regarding the candidates for deputy, I might employ Flint and Creasy but not really sure. Watson may be useful as an assassin, but I am not in that business.

    I would employ Flint if she were 30 years younger but only to put on the front desk.
    She hasn't got the brains to be a filing or admin bunny.

    Watson would be good as an assassin as eating his targets is a terrific way to dispose of the corpses.
    Why not think of them as potential bosses? After all, if any of them ever became PM, that's what they'd be.

    Not that they ever will be PM (or even LOTO after the next election).

    Henceforth, all real political debate will take place inside the Tory Party, who can put the abolition of the NHS into their manifesto and still win 400-500 seats.
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 860
    HYUFD said:

    Apart from cafes and hotels anything Corbyn wouldn't nationalise?

    Whatever his eurocratic friends disallow him from nationalising... which may be quite a lot. I doubt he is prepared to take on the EU as well as his own party.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 10,613

    Andy Burnham has said he would serve in a Corbyn shadow cabinet.

    Given that it's his fault Corbyn's on course to win anyway, that seems the very least he could do to limit the damage!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,532
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    fitalass said:

    Sean Connery was by far the best actor in the role of Bond as penned by Ian Fleming until Daniel Craig came along to give him a run for his money. Those actors who featured in-between gave audiences entertainment in spades, and a lot of action filled laughs. But I doubt that was ever Ian Fleming's intention when he created the original character who played Bond, I suspect that Connery and Craig would have been his favourite actors to fill the role too.

    RodCrosby said:

    a couple of great scenes from Thunderball

    Still quite near the knuckle 50 years later...

    I nagged my parents to be allowed to watch it - my comment afterwards was it was quite exciting but I didn't understand why James Bond always ended up talking to ladies in bed - and was told 'because its more comfortable' - that was the last James Bond film I saw for a few years.....
    No he wasn't.

    Timothy Dalton would have been his favourite.
    I can't take Dalton seriously after watching him in Flash Gordon: wearing green tights and sticking his arm into a papier mache tree trunk while pretending to be scared...
    Didn't you see Sean Connery in Darby O'Gill and the Little People?

    Every actor has embarrassing films in their portfolio they're not proud of.
    That film wasn't top of my bucket list, no.

    But if I had to go for a single film it would be OHMSS. Lazenby had his faults, but the story actually gave some perspectives into why Bond is so messed up. Skyfall tried to do the same, but much less successfully.
    Yes, OHMSS was terrific. The director insisted on staying as faithful to the original book as possible. And it shows.

    Had Connery acted as Bond, not been dubbed to 'Sir Hilary Bray' for a third of the film, and a more convincing Blofeld than Telly Savalas found, it would be an all-time classic masterpiece.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 10,613
    Pauly said:

    HYUFD said:

    Apart from cafes and hotels anything Corbyn wouldn't nationalise?

    Whatever his eurocratic friends disallow him from nationalising... which may be quite a lot. I doubt he is prepared to take on the EU as well as his own party.
    I thought Corbyn was quite anti-EU. He certainly flirted with the Out side earlier on:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/07/25/jeremy-corbyn-refuses-to-_n_7870992.html

    The Labour left was always traditionally against the EEC, as they saw it as a pawn of big business. That's why Foot campaigned on a platform for withdrawal in 1983, and Benn supported the out campaign in 1975.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 42,735
    In a choice between Corbyn and Cooper, Cooper trails Corbyn in Scotland and Kendall and Burnham I in England and Wales so you may as well vote Corbyn
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 13,660
    ydoethur said:

    Andy Burnham has said he would serve in a Corbyn shadow cabinet.

    Given that it's his fault Corbyn's on course to win anyway, that seems the very least he could do to limit the damage!
    The strange thing is that he was supposed to be on the ticket to engender this famous internal debate. But instead of debate all the other three have done is to dismiss him out of hand rather than, say, to discuss why Clause IV is or is not a good or bad thing.

    There has been no debate, such that I have seen, just further affirmations of positions. Unless by debate they meant to give frustrated CiF-ers the opportunity to vent their inner hard lefty.
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 860
    ydoethur said:

    Pauly said:

    HYUFD said:

    Apart from cafes and hotels anything Corbyn wouldn't nationalise?

    Whatever his eurocratic friends disallow him from nationalising... which may be quite a lot. I doubt he is prepared to take on the EU as well as his own party.
    I thought Corbyn was quite anti-EU. He certainly flirted with the Out side earlier on:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/07/25/jeremy-corbyn-refuses-to-_n_7870992.html

    The Labour left was always traditionally against the EEC, as they saw it as a pawn of big business. That's why Foot campaigned on a platform for withdrawal in 1983, and Benn supported the out campaign in 1975.
    If he is eurosceptic he is certainly keeping his cards close to his chest. He said he was disgusted by the treatment of Greece but didn't go any further than that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 42,735
    IDS had Bill Cash in his Shadow Cabinet but not Portillo or Clarke
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 10,613
    edited August 2015
    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy Burnham has said he would serve in a Corbyn shadow cabinet.

    Given that it's his fault Corbyn's on course to win anyway, that seems the very least he could do to limit the damage!
    The strange thing is that he was supposed to be on the ticket to engender this famous internal debate. But instead of debate all the other three have done is to dismiss him out of hand rather than, say, to discuss why Clause IV is or is not a good or bad thing.

    There has been no debate, such that I have seen, just further affirmations of positions. Unless by debate they meant to give frustrated CiF-ers the opportunity to vent their inner hard lefty.
    Before you can have a debate, you need two sides with ideas to discuss. Unfortunately, putting Corbyn with his oddball ideas forward has merely exposed in tragically clear relief that the others have precisely sod all ideas, oddball or otherwise, between them. Lots of clichés, but no ideas.
  • I don't think that will happen. For one thing, any MP who nominated Corbyn and then refuses to serve will look a hypocrite and an idiot. For another, if Labour's right and centre stands back then the entire front bench will be filled with oddballs and featherweights, which surely can do Labour no favours - especially if Corbyn does go down a more consensual route and have discussion and voting in the Shadow Cabinet.

    But politics has always had self-correcting mechanisms. Andy Burnham has said he would serve in a Corbyn shadow cabinet. Assuming he sticks to that then that's a big marker to other current front benchers and also Burnham's own supporters.
    Though has Corbyn suggested that if he wins he'd even want Burnham in his cabinet? Prior to the leadership election a Burnham-led party would not have had a position for Corbyn in the cabinet and I don't see why a Corbyn-led party need automatically have a position for Burnham either.
    Charles said:

    Pauly said:

    Just read this on The New Statesman, couldn't control the laughter:

    A putsch against Corbyn raises the fear, as one MP gloomily observes, “of him just winning again”, leaving them looking both “unelectable and fucking stupid”

    Surely, though, if they have a coup they wouldn't nominate him to stand again.

    Unless they really, really fucking stupid...
    The MPs aren't a homogenous group though. If there was a putsch by 51% of MPs to remove Corbyn who felt he still had the backing of the Labour selectorate and wanted to stand again he'd surely need the backing of 35 MPs to stand again - not 51% of them.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916

    GeoffM said:

    Financier said:

    Musing about the four Labour leadership candidates, I viewed them as prospective employees and would I employ them.

    I would employ Kendall as she is a thinker and not afraid to put her point forward and would use her in strategic planning. I would employ Corbyn as he would be good at Sales.

    I would not employ either Burnham or Cooper as they would do more damage to my business than any good they may bring. They are neither deep thinkers nor have the ability to instill confidence in my business in my clients.

    Regarding the candidates for deputy, I might employ Flint and Creasy but not really sure. Watson may be useful as an assassin, but I am not in that business.

    I would employ Flint if she were 30 years younger but only to put on the front desk.
    She hasn't got the brains to be a filing or admin bunny.

    Watson would be good as an assassin as eating his targets is a terrific way to dispose of the corpses.
    Why not think of them as potential bosses? After all, if any of them ever became PM, that's what they'd be.

    Not that they ever will be PM (or even LOTO after the next election).

    Henceforth, all real political debate will take place inside the Tory Party, who can put the abolition of the NHS into their manifesto and still win 400-500 seats.
    Actually, I can think of many, many MPs that I would not employ - so why are they MPs?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,532
    fitalass said:

    Sorry, but Dalton was my least favourite Bond out of the lot of them, and I know he tried very hard to be that great act as the real Fleming 'Bond'. Maybe it was the movies he starred in, but both Connery and Craig really got it I think.

    fitalass said:

    Sean Connery was by far the best actor in the role of Bond as penned by Ian Fleming until Daniel Craig came along to give him a run for his money. Those actors who featured in-between gave audiences entertainment in spades, and a lot of action filled laughs. But I doubt that was ever Ian Fleming's intention when he created the original character who played Bond, I suspect that Connery and Craig would have been his favourite actors to fill the role too.

    RodCrosby said:

    a couple of great scenes from Thunderball

    Still quite near the knuckle 50 years later...

    I nagged my parents to be allowed to watch it - my comment afterwards was it was quite exciting but I didn't understand why James Bond always ended up talking to ladies in bed - and was told 'because its more comfortable' - that was the last James Bond film I saw for a few years.....
    No he wasn't.

    Timothy Dalton would have been his favourite.
    That is easily the wrongest comment you've ever posted here.

    Dalton perfectly captured the resentful brooding intensity and conflicted emotion behind Fleming's Bond, who does his job of assassination (effectively as a off-limits civil servant) reluctantly and sceptically, but maintains a ruthless menace where necessary. His only relief being alcohol, fine living, and beautiful women to feel alive - tempered by the fact that one of his relationships ended tragically.

    To put Dalton behind actors like Brosnan, Moore and Lazenby is nothing short of a travesty.

    Go back, and rewatch his films. Try again.
  • fitalass said:

    Sorry, but Dalton was my least favourite Bond out of the lot of them, and I know he tried very hard to be that great act as the real Fleming 'Bond'. Maybe it was the movies he starred in, but both Connery and Craig really got it I think.

    fitalass said:

    Sean Connery was by far the best actor in the role of Bond as penned by Ian Fleming until Daniel Craig came along to give him a run for his money. Those actors who featured in-between gave audiences entertainment in spades, and a lot of action filled laughs. But I doubt that was ever Ian Fleming's intention when he created the original character who played Bond, I suspect that Connery and Craig would have been his favourite actors to fill the role too.

    RodCrosby said:

    a couple of great scenes from Thunderball

    Still quite near the knuckle 50 years later...

    I nagged my parents to be allowed to watch it - my comment afterwards was it was quite exciting but I didn't understand why James Bond always ended up talking to ladies in bed - and was told 'because its more comfortable' - that was the last James Bond film I saw for a few years.....
    No he wasn't.

    Timothy Dalton would have been his favourite.
    Fleming had David Niven in mind as his ideal Bond.
    Sadly Niven was too old although he did appear as Bond in a Casino Royale travesty.
    I thought he had Cary Grant as his ideal actor? (and I can see that above Niven who never really had the physical presence for a Bond).
    I think you're right about Fleming expressing a liking for Grant at some point.
    With regards to physicality, Bond is described as resembling Hoagy Carmichael who was of a slight build, quite unlike muscleman Connery.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 16,986
    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy Burnham has said he would serve in a Corbyn shadow cabinet.

    Given that it's his fault Corbyn's on course to win anyway, that seems the very least he could do to limit the damage!
    The strange thing is that he was supposed to be on the ticket to engender this famous internal debate. But instead of debate all the other three have done is to dismiss him out of hand rather than, say, to discuss why Clause IV is or is not a good or bad thing.

    There has been no debate, such that I have seen, just further affirmations of positions. Unless by debate they meant to give frustrated CiF-ers the opportunity to vent their inner hard lefty.
    Before you can have a debate, you need two sides with ideas to discuss. Unfortunately, putting Corbyn with his oddball ideas forward has merely exposed in tragically clear relief that the others have precisely sod all ideas, oddball or otherwise, between them. Lots of clichés, but no ideas.
    Spot on

    Labour atm is just hollowed out spin and the electorate can see it.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy Burnham has said he would serve in a Corbyn shadow cabinet.

    Given that it's his fault Corbyn's on course to win anyway, that seems the very least he could do to limit the damage!
    The strange thing is that he was supposed to be on the ticket to engender this famous internal debate. But instead of debate all the other three have done is to dismiss him out of hand rather than, say, to discuss why Clause IV is or is not a good or bad thing.

    There has been no debate, such that I have seen, just further affirmations of positions. Unless by debate they meant to give frustrated CiF-ers the opportunity to vent their inner hard lefty.
    Before you can have a debate, you need two sides with ideas to discuss. Unfortunately, putting Corbyn with his oddball ideas forward has merely exposed in tragically clear relief that the others have precisely sod all ideas, oddball or otherwise, between them. Lots of clichés, but no ideas.
    Absolutely, and people expect Leaders to lead, not to look for all their ideas from others.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 10,613
    HYUFD said:

    IDS had Bill Cash in his Shadow Cabinet but not Portillo or Clarke

    But weren't they offered posts and refused them? I know Clarke was offered a top post by Hague - not sure about IDS. Portillo I think was just losing interest - in fact, his whole campaign was near as disengaged as Cooper's has been. Certainly I don't recall that they said they wouldn't serve under IDS.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    ydoethur said:

    O/T but Hilary Clinton has agreed to hand over all her emails, viz. the server.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-33872602

    The question is, will this lance the boil or will it make matters worse? Around half have apparently been deleted - if the FBI decide those include emails that were business rather than personal, that could conceivably be a criminal offence.

    Be interesting to see how good her IT people are. Deleting the mails is one thing, deleting them well enough that the FBI Crime Lab can't recover them is a whole different ball of wax.
  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    edited August 2015
    Financier said:

    GeoffM said:

    Financier said:

    Musing about the four Labour leadership candidates, I viewed them as prospective employees and would I employ them.

    I would employ Kendall as she is a thinker and not afraid to put her point forward and would use her in strategic planning. I would employ Corbyn as he would be good at Sales.

    I would not employ either Burnham or Cooper as they would do more damage to my business than any good they may bring. They are neither deep thinkers nor have the ability to instill confidence in my business in my clients.

    Regarding the candidates for deputy, I might employ Flint and Creasy but not really sure. Watson may be useful as an assassin, but I am not in that business.

    I would employ Flint if she were 30 years younger but only to put on the front desk.
    She hasn't got the brains to be a filing or admin bunny.

    Watson would be good as an assassin as eating his targets is a terrific way to dispose of the corpses.
    Why not think of them as potential bosses? After all, if any of them ever became PM, that's what they'd be.

    Not that they ever will be PM (or even LOTO after the next election).

    Henceforth, all real political debate will take place inside the Tory Party, who can put the abolition of the NHS into their manifesto and still win 400-500 seats.
    Actually, I can think of many, many MPs that I would not employ - so why are they MPs?
    Because your comment says a great deal about your and b*gger all about anyone else.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 29,057
    edited August 2015
    TOPPING said:

    fitalass said:

    Sorry, but Dalton was my least favourite Bond out of the lot of them, and I know he tried very hard to be that great act as the real Fleming 'Bond'. Maybe it was the movies he starred in, but both Connery and Craig really got it I think.

    fitalass said:

    Sean Connery was by far the best actor in the role of Bond as penned by Ian Fleming until Daniel Craig came along to give him a run for his money. Those actors who featured in-between gave audiences entertainment in spades, and a lot of action filled laughs. But I doubt that was ever Ian Fleming's intention when he created the original character who played Bond, I suspect that Connery and Craig would have been his favourite actors to fill the role too.

    RodCrosby said:

    a couple of great scenes from Thunderball

    Still quite near the knuckle 50 years later...

    I nagged my parents to be allowed to watch it - my comment afterwards was it was quite exciting but I didn't understand why James Bond always ended up talking to ladies in bed - and was told 'because its more comfortable' - that was the last James Bond film I saw for a few years.....
    No he wasn't.

    Timothy Dalton would have been his favourite.
    Fleming had David Niven in mind as his ideal Bond.
    Sadly Niven was too old although he did appear as Bond in a Casino Royale travesty.
    Who would you like to share a martini with - Moore's Bond or Craig's? For me no contest = Moore's.
    I don't want to share a martini with him - I want Bond to 'defend the realm' - no contest their either = Craig!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 10,613

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy Burnham has said he would serve in a Corbyn shadow cabinet.

    Given that it's his fault Corbyn's on course to win anyway, that seems the very least he could do to limit the damage!
    The strange thing is that he was supposed to be on the ticket to engender this famous internal debate. But instead of debate all the other three have done is to dismiss him out of hand rather than, say, to discuss why Clause IV is or is not a good or bad thing.

    There has been no debate, such that I have seen, just further affirmations of positions. Unless by debate they meant to give frustrated CiF-ers the opportunity to vent their inner hard lefty.
    Before you can have a debate, you need two sides with ideas to discuss. Unfortunately, putting Corbyn with his oddball ideas forward has merely exposed in tragically clear relief that the others have precisely sod all ideas, oddball or otherwise, between them. Lots of clichés, but no ideas.
    Spot on

    Labour atm is just hollowed out spin and the electorate can see it.
    The strange thing is that there are lots of good ideas coming out of Labour at the moment, mostly from the excellent Jon Cruddas who is not merely a class but a whole education system above the candidates for leader. But nobody is seizing them and running with them, no matter how excellent they are.

    Well, not in the Labour party anyway - lots of George Osborne's ideas seem to be emanating from Cruddas. But that in itself may be part of the problem, of course.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 13,660
    edited August 2015
    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy Burnham has said he would serve in a Corbyn shadow cabinet.

    Given that it's his fault Corbyn's on course to win anyway, that seems the very least he could do to limit the damage!
    The strange thing is that he was supposed to be on the ticket to engender this famous internal debate. But instead of debate all the other three have done is to dismiss him out of hand rather than, say, to discuss why Clause IV is or is not a good or bad thing.

    There has been no debate, such that I have seen, just further affirmations of positions. Unless by debate they meant to give frustrated CiF-ers the opportunity to vent their inner hard lefty.
    Before you can have a debate, you need two sides with ideas to discuss. Unfortunately, putting Corbyn with his oddball ideas forward has merely exposed in tragically clear relief that the others have precisely sod all ideas, oddball or otherwise, between them. Lots of clichés, but no ideas.
    Yes.

    As I mentioned last night here, the difficulty for the others is that they can't explain their volte-face between one minute to and one minute past 10pm on May 7th. Ed and Lab's biggest fanboys (and girls) all of a sudden became huge critics without actually being able to explain what had made them support pre-GE Lab and why now they wouldn't, still less what would put in its place.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 29,057

    fitalass said:

    Sorry, but Dalton was my least favourite Bond out of the lot of them, and I know he tried very hard to be that great act as the real Fleming 'Bond'. Maybe it was the movies he starred in, but both Connery and Craig really got it I think.

    fitalass said:

    Sean Connery was by far the best actor in the role of Bond as penned by Ian Fleming until Daniel Craig came along to give him a run for his money. Those actors who featured in-between gave audiences entertainment in spades, and a lot of action filled laughs. But I doubt that was ever Ian Fleming's intention when he created the original character who played Bond, I suspect that Connery and Craig would have been his favourite actors to fill the role too.

    RodCrosby said:

    a couple of great scenes from Thunderball

    Still quite near the knuckle 50 years later...

    I nagged my parents to be allowed to watch it - my comment afterwards was it was quite exciting but I didn't understand why James Bond always ended up talking to ladies in bed - and was told 'because its more comfortable' - that was the last James Bond film I saw for a few years.....
    No he wasn't.

    Timothy Dalton would have been his favourite.
    To put Dalton behind actors like Brosnan, Moore and Lazenby is nothing short of a travesty.
    I'd rank:

    Connery/David
    Dalton
    Moore/Brosnan
    Lazenby
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy Burnham has said he would serve in a Corbyn shadow cabinet.

    Given that it's his fault Corbyn's on course to win anyway, that seems the very least he could do to limit the damage!
    The strange thing is that he was supposed to be on the ticket to engender this famous internal debate. But instead of debate all the other three have done is to dismiss him out of hand rather than, say, to discuss why Clause IV is or is not a good or bad thing.

    There has been no debate, such that I have seen, just further affirmations of positions. Unless by debate they meant to give frustrated CiF-ers the opportunity to vent their inner hard lefty.
    Before you can have a debate, you need two sides with ideas to discuss. Unfortunately, putting Corbyn with his oddball ideas forward has merely exposed in tragically clear relief that the others have precisely sod all ideas, oddball or otherwise, between them. Lots of clichés, but no ideas.
    Spot on

    Labour atm is just hollowed out spin and the electorate can see it.
    The strange thing is that there are lots of good ideas coming out of Labour at the moment, mostly from the excellent Jon Cruddas who is not merely a class but a whole education system above the candidates for leader. But nobody is seizing them and running with them, no matter how excellent they are.

    Well, not in the Labour party anyway - lots of George Osborne's ideas seem to be emanating from Cruddas. But that in itself may be part of the problem, of course.
    But even if they agree with GO's objectives, there will be different ways of reaching those objectives - some successful and others not. So why have they not voiced any of those?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,532
    Charles said:

    Question for the day: who was the first person to play Bond on broadcast media?

    I seem to remember Bob Holness was very early doors.
  • Charles said:

    Question for the day: who was the first person to play Bond on broadcast media?

    I seem to remember Bob Holness was very early doors.
    Bob Holness as in "I'll have a p please Bob"?

    Learn something every day.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 10,613
    Financier said:



    But even if they agree with GO's objectives, there will be different ways of reaching those objectives - some successful and others not. So why have they not voiced any of those?

    I wish I knew! Because it makes them all look like total idiots.

    The only thing I can suggest is that because they all went in expecting to need second preferences to get over the line, they decided to say and do as little as possible in order to not offend anyone and hopefully pick up those extra votes by default - a little bit like the legendary Governor Dewey in 1948, who decided not to say anything to offend the Democratic swing voters and ended up therefore saying next to nothing.

    Which ironically has meant Corbyn, who didn't care about winning and therefore felt free to say what he really thought, has looked like the only person actually doing anything - with the net result he may well win on the first ballot.

    It's only a theory, but it fits all the facts. Doesn't say much for the self-belief or courage of the other three though.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,711
    Good morning, everyone.

    Got to say I thought Dalton was rather good.

    Only seen the one Daniel Craig (Casino Royale). Thought it took itself too seriously/was too influenced by Bourne. "Do I look like I bloody care [how my Martini is served]?" Well, you should. You're James Bond, you damned fool.

    Connery's the best. Right blend of menace and charm.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 20,127

    Corbyn is still a steal at 1.5 on Betfair IMHO. But, sadly, I'm out of betting funds for the month now.

    I agree. Even allowing for the much greater unreliability of polling party electorates, all available information and mood music points the same way. It looks more like a 1/4 shot than a 1/2 shot. I've been following this logic.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 19,031
    fitalass said:

    What ever the answer to Labour's current problems are, its not a Gordon Brown intervention. But speaking equally tongue in cheek, I do find it ironic from a Scottish perspective that both the current Labour and SNP party grass roots share a loathing for any key personal involved in the Labour party when they were winning elections.

    stjohn said:

    Labour look as though they are sleep walking to disaster in this leadership election.

    Where is the man who saved the world, saved the banks?

    General Gordon. Your Party Needs You!

    LOL , unlike the disappearing Tories who don't have any leaders to worry about.
  • notmenotme Posts: 2,542

    Remarkable illustration of cultural difference across the pond: child banned from speaking to other children due to insufficient belief in God:

    http://www.rt.com/usa/311664-school-child-lawsuit-god/

    That's far more common that you probably think over here too. Different god though.
    No, its the same God of Abraham. They just worship him in a different way.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    edited August 2015
    You heard all this from me first - last night. (I have to get some kudos for my Nexus/Times subscription offer)
    The reason Corbyn is Stormyn is that the new members are being signed up by the unions for him in the first place.
    Its pretty obvious the way a Corbyn led and hard lefty dominated Labour will go.

    Anyway - I am off to Olympia in a minute to the CAMRA beer festival. Hope the pies are good.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 8,571

    Charles said:

    Question for the day: who was the first person to play Bond on broadcast media?

    I seem to remember Bob Holness was very early doors.
    Bob Holness as in "I'll have a p please Bob"?

    Learn something every day.
    Bob Holness said he realised the zeitgeist was changing when the smirks moved from p to e.
  • notmenotme Posts: 2,542
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Question for the day: who was the first person to play Bond on broadcast media?

    Barry Nelson?
    Bob Holness!!
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 1,775

    Good morning, everyone.

    Got to say I thought Dalton was rather good.

    Only seen the one Daniel Craig (Casino Royale). Thought it took itself too seriously/was too influenced by Bourne. "Do I look like I bloody care [how my Martini is served]?" Well, you should. You're James Bond, you damned fool.

    Connery's the best. Right blend of menace and charm.

    I think Casino Royale is really good and one of the wittiest Bond films.

    I rewatched Bourne recently - the shaky cam was remarkably not that shaky.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    I don't think that will happen. For one thing, any MP who nominated Corbyn and then refuses to serve will look a hypocrite and an idiot. For another, if Labour's right and centre stands back then the entire front bench will be filled with oddballs and featherweights, which surely can do Labour no favours - especially if Corbyn does go down a more consensual route and have discussion and voting in the Shadow Cabinet.

    But politics has always had self-correcting mechanisms. Andy Burnham has said he would serve in a Corbyn shadow cabinet. Assuming he sticks to that then that's a big marker to other current front benchers and also Burnham's own supporters.
    Your knowledge of the labour party is greater than mine but I just think something different is happening. Every man and his dog has come out to say either the contest should be stopped or Corbyn must be assassinated (exaggeration but you get my drift). Peculiar because he clearly has the grass roots support which has genuinely shocked his opponents. I may be wrong but I think the very point of the labour party has disappeared, it needs to split and reinvent itself.

  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 1,775
    Even Lazenby has one bit, where he's running amok through a cliff top lair in a para smock, when you think "yeah, this guy is a killer". Plus he's got the best movie.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 4,498
    notme,

    "No, its the same God of Abraham. They just worship him in a different way."

    He might have been thinking about political correctness being the God you must worship to be acceptable.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 1,853
    It seems to me that Trade Union affiliation to political parties needs fixing, either by ending it or making it a level playing field for all political parties.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    Charles said:

    Question for the day: who was the first person to play Bond on broadcast media?

    I seem to remember Bob Holness was very early doors.
    Bob Holness as in "I'll have a p please Bob"?

    Learn something every day.
    It was an American actor - whose name escapes me but I can picture him - who played 'Jimmy Bond' in a US TV version of Casino Royale, mid fifties.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 9,379
    Nick

    'Even if we remain in the wilderness, there would be something clearly honest and wholesome at the centre."

    My thinking exactly. It would be wonderful to have a Labour party that didn't beat up on immigrants and asylum seekers because the Daily Mail tells them to. Or a leader who doesn't stoop to the level of a Tory and say 'English jobs for English workers' because it might garner a few grubby votes.

    Since the Lib Dem sell out for power we don't have such a party anymore

    If Corbyn could be that leader what a renaissance it would be for Labour. A political Mikveh bath!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 13,660
    malcolmg said:

    fitalass said:

    What ever the answer to Labour's current problems are, its not a Gordon Brown intervention. But speaking equally tongue in cheek, I do find it ironic from a Scottish perspective that both the current Labour and SNP party grass roots share a loathing for any key personal involved in the Labour party when they were winning elections.

    stjohn said:

    Labour look as though they are sleep walking to disaster in this leadership election.

    Where is the man who saved the world, saved the banks?

    General Gordon. Your Party Needs You!

    LOL , unlike the disappearing Tories who don't have any leaders to worry about.
    "A leader is best when the people barely know he exists. Of a good leader, who talks little, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: we did this ourselves." Lao Tse.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,711
    Mr. Roger, the purity of obscurity does seem appealing to many in Labour.
  • notmenotme Posts: 2,542

    Charles said:

    Question for the day: who was the first person to play Bond on broadcast media?

    I seem to remember Bob Holness was very early doors.
    Bob Holness as in "I'll have a p please Bob"?

    Learn something every day.
    Bob Holness said he realised the zeitgeist was changing when the smirks moved from p to e.
    Damn it! I searched the thread to see if anyone had got it before i posted. I should have refreshed and searched again!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 10,613
    edited August 2015
    A former supporter of Michael Foot attacks Corbyn:

    http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2015/08/11/under-corbyn-labour-faces-twenty-years-in-the-wilderness/

    Don't think it will help though, at this late stage.

    EDIT: I would particularly recommend that article to @NickPalmer and @Roger.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 1,750
    edited August 2015
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy Burnham has said he would serve in a Corbyn shadow cabinet.

    Given that it's his fault Corbyn's on course to win anyway, that seems the very least he could do to limit the damage!
    The strange thing is that he was supposed to be on the ticket to engender this famous internal debate. But instead of debate all the other three have done is to dismiss him out of hand rather than, say, to discuss why Clause IV is or is not a good or bad thing.

    There has been no debate, such that I have seen, just further affirmations of positions. Unless by debate they meant to give frustrated CiF-ers the opportunity to vent their inner hard lefty.
    Before you can have a debate, you need two sides with ideas to discuss. Unfortunately, putting Corbyn with his oddball ideas forward has merely exposed in tragically clear relief that the others have precisely sod all ideas, oddball or otherwise, between them. Lots of clichés, but no ideas.
    Spot on

    Labour atm is just hollowed out spin and the electorate can see it.
    The strange thing is that there are lots of good ideas coming out of Labour at the moment, mostly from the excellent Jon Cruddas who is not merely a class but a whole education system above the candidates for leader. But nobody is seizing them and running with them, no matter how excellent they are.

    Well, not in the Labour party anyway - lots of George Osborne's ideas seem to be emanating from Cruddas. But that in itself may be part of the problem, of course.
    But, the obvious question is .... why on earth did Jon Cruddas not stand ?

    The Tories would have lot to fear from a Cruddas -led Labour Party.

    There are a number of people who are more inspiring & competent than Kendall, Cooper & Burnham, yet they elected not to stand.

    If you choose to do that -- for whatever reasons, personal or professional -- then you have to accept that someone less able will stand & win in your place.
  • I get the feeling Labour somehow knows they're going to lose in 2020 and is therefore choosing lefty purity and bugger the electoral consequences. Which has an honesty and traditional Labour student union immature financial incoherence but 'nice' feel to it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 10,613
    edited August 2015


    But, the obvious question is .... why on earth did Jon Cruddas not stand ?

    The Tories would have lot to fear from a Cruddas -led Labour Party.

    There are a number of people who are more inspiring & competent than Kendall, Cooper & Turnham, yet they elected not to stand.

    If you choose to do that -- for whatever reasons, personal or professional -- then you have to accept that someone less able will stand & win in your place.

    I agree. And, for the matter of that, I thought he should have stood in 2010.

    But it is very clear that for whatever reason he has decided he does not want to be leader or for that matter a senior figure in the party (as in, Shadow Cabinet/Cabinet). What a sad thing for our political system.
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