I still find the Corbyn price extraordinary. He should certainly be no more than 1.1 and probably well below. The ballot papers go out tomorrow and he had a thirty point lead on the first round, before a huge and beneficial influx. Game over.
I still find the Corbyn price extraordinary. He should certainly be no more than 1.1 and probably well below. The ballot papers go out tomorrow and he had a thirty point lead on the first round, before a huge and beneficial influx. Game over.
True enough ; however , when something seems too good to be true , it usually is ; this whole thing is beyond bizarre, like a fairy story , and it seems to me that there will be some type of bizarre twist before it finally ends and the spell is broken
One thing is for sure , if the sensible people in the LP want to save their party from a total meltdown then they've got to go out in attack dog mode and tear Corbyn to pieces ; unfortunately , Burnham is a total wet Lettuce and Cooper just lacks balls and the killer instinct ; and let's face it Corbyn is an easy target who is a failure, achieving nothing , after 33 years in politics ...he is nothing more than a professional protester and pound shop Michael Foot ....they need to go out and Blitz Corbyn NOW !
This barring is going to make Labour's situation even worse.
This only makes the whole election open to a legal challenge should Corbyn lose - unless the T&Cs of the ability to join up via the £3 are really specific. The Unions have the cash to mount a legal challenge but the rest of the candidates do not.
Like various unsuccessful Tory applicants. Cod Cockney Mark Steel actively campaigned against Labour in May.
Yes, but can it be proved that he would not support Labour under Corbyn?
Quote from an Early Day Motion signed by Jeremy Corbyn in 2004 (on the subject of pigeons used as flying bombs by MI5):
"Humans represent the most obscene, perverted, cruel, uncivilised and lethal species ever to inhabit the planet and looks forward to the day when the inevitable asteroid slams into the earth and wipes them out thus giving nature the opportunity to start again."
Issues like support for Hamas or the IRA are not ones that primarily affect peoples’ votes (rightly or wrongly).
I think a Corbyn-led, anti-austerity Labour Party will do better in Wales & Scotland & London 2016 than the alternatives (a Cooper or Burnham led party). So, I’d expect Labour to tighten their grip on Wales, and begin to recover slowly in Scotland. What happens in 2020 is too far ahead to predict with any certainty.
The Guardian have re-opened comments on Tony Blair’s article. There are already 110 pages of rage and anger.
Could this become the largest outpouring of mass hatred & bile on the web?
I never liked Blair, but I've rarely been so tempted to be a troll and write some glowing praise of him on that piece.
They barely voted for a son of the manse. They didn't vote for weird Ed. Why would they vote for an Islington beardy?
He has said that he would strike a deal with the Nats. If so then he has a 56 seat gain right there. It is unlikely but not impossible that he could have a government in 2020.
So let me get this right. The Tories picked up a shedload of votes of the fear of the possibility that Labour might do a deal with the SNP, how do you think the voters are going to react when Corbyn and Salmond are slapping each other on the back like old comrades and working out a plan for governing together.
It may all depend on what the deal is. There is going to have to be a new settlement with Scotland, the question is really just what and when.
Camilla Long said he spoke a lot of words without actually saying anything beyond cliches. She was really disappointed in his speech/expected something more than student union reasoning.
On the subject (from the previous thread) about whether Jeremy Corbyn is thick (or not): in Croydon last week he said that he couldn't, as leader of the party, write every detail of a manifesto or list of policies on his own. They would have to be worked out by masses of ordinary people discussing in community halls, not posh people in focus groups in exclusive hotels.
Maybe that's subconscious lefty code meaning that he's a thicko who hasn't got a clue about any details? He just knows a few lefty slogans of the type which are enough to get a rebellious backbencher on TV, but not enough to build proper policies for being LOTO or PM.
I am really struck by just how unpredictable this whole thing has been. I hadn't heard of Corbyn since the eighties and didn't realise he was still an MP. The initial price of 100 to 1 seemed generous, I just assumed that any left wing candidate would crash and burn. I am still finding it hard to accept that he is anywhere near sweeping the board - just being in with a chance still seems beyond probability. And the idea that Labour would roughly double its nominal activist base a few months after such a poor showing in the general election? If I had to predict that a left wing candidate was ever going to lead the Labour Party I would have plumped for it being due to a catastrophic fall rather than rise in paid up members.
So people who are confidently predicting the effect of a Corbyn leadership - good or bad - either know a lot more than I do or are simply deluding themselves.
From now on my working assumption is going to be that neither I nor anybody else knows anything.
This mania belongs more in the realm of religion than politics ; the vacuous Facebook users are the worst of all ; these folks have a short attention span and use the same criteria for voting that they use when voting on the X Factor or Big Brother ; they will elect a complete idiot like Corbyn and then return to their empty lives of trash TV and music
I think one of the lessons from this leadership episode is that, while looking at social media comments is an awful way to predict a national contest, it makes sense in a contest like this where the electoral base is very narrow and likely to be energised - with hindsight, if you looked at the comments in the Guardian and the various Labour-supporting websites from several weeks ago, it was very clear that JC had a much greater chance of winning than the odds suggested.
I see the PB swarm is in transition from laughing ('Haw, haw, I paid my £3!) and rubbing their hands (mandibles, antennae?) at the prospect of LOTO Jez, to identifying him as the hive enemy - 'mad', 'loony', 'incompetent', 'dangerous', 'terrifying', 'evil!'.
I am really struck by just how unpredictable this whole thing has been. I hadn't heard of Corbyn since the eighties and didn't realise he was still an MP. The initial price of 100 to 1 seemed generous, I just assumed that any left wing candidate would crash and burn. I am still finding it hard to accept that he is anywhere near sweeping the board - just being in with a chance still seems beyond probability. And the idea that Labour would roughly double its nominal activist base a few months after such a poor showing in the general election? If I had to predict that a left wing candidate was ever going to lead the Labour Party I would have plumped for it being due to a catastrophic fall rather than rise in paid up members.
So people who are confidently predicting the effect of a Corbyn leadership - good or bad - either know a lot more than I do or are simply deluding themselves.
From now on my working assumption is going to be that neither I nor anybody else knows anything.
Your working assumption is wrong.
Several polls all point in the same direction. Polls can be wrong but never by this margin. The surge in membership has to be prompted by something. It certainly isn't a rush of ex-Blair centrists returning to save their party. They no longer see it as their party - why would they? By contrast, there's a class of people who sign every petition against the government and Like every Facebook post from 38 degrees. This is who Corbyn and the unions have engaged. For £3, you can see why. His is the voice of that movement. Burnham and Cooper are the voice of a scared SpAdocracy. The unions are pushing hard for Corbyn.
On the effect of a Corbyn leadership, that is, of course, far more open to doubt. He has, after all, absolutely no experience and we have nothing to go on except his record as a backbencher. However, what is absolutely clear is that there is a massive division between the PLP and the activist base - indeed, one so large it's unprecedented in British political history. MPs might talk about a coup against him but how? What is to prevent him from winning again? (Nominations won't be an issue second time round).
The media is likely to come to the PLP's aid once JC is elected. How many months of questions about past support for various terrorist groups can JC wade through before he stands down? There's so much in the cupboard to call on. That's why Watson's victory is so crucial. He, not JC, will effectively control the party machine.
There were 48 welfare rebels, and my own personal list of evil lefties who would probably stand for public shadow cabinet elections to serve under corbyn:
Diane Abbott (fanatical left - "white people love playing divide and rule") Ronnie Campbell (leftie disgusted by blairites) Richard Burgon (hard leftie) Dennis Skinner (veteran left) Jon Trickett (leftie) Kelvin Hopkins (eurosceptic and homoeopathy support, so probably crazy leftie) Imran Hussain (at a corbyn rally introduced corbyn as "next PM") John McDonnell ('would swim through vomit to oppose sickening welfare bill') Grahame Morris (“a very strong prospect” of Mr Corbyn winning the contest) Michael Meacher ("The arrogance and intolerance of the Blairites is breathtaking." his blog) Cat Smith ("Prior to entering Parliament she worked for Jeremy Corbyn MP" wikipedia)
Plus any non-supporters who bite their tongue, hold their nose and serve their rebellious leader loyally against their best judgement.
I think the story's own link to 'Cheerleader Wardrobe Malfunctions' is even better. What will poor Tessa make of the Indy's support of these 'unrealistic images' I wonder?
Back to your topic - it seems the Mark Steel is some sort of comedian, never heard of him myself but what we appear to have is the mobilisation of the 'Live at the Apollo Vote' by the Corbynites. How far will that take them?
This barring is going to make Labour's situation even worse.
This only makes the whole election open to a legal challenge should Corbyn lose - unless the T&Cs of the ability to join up via the £3 are really specific. The Unions have the cash to mount a legal challenge but the rest of the candidates do not.
Like various unsuccessful Tory applicants. Cod Cockney Mark Steel actively campaigned against Labour in May.
If Corbyn is as far ahead as seems to be the case, it is a pointless waste of time, brains and money removing “entryists” (even if Mark Steel is one).
If Corbyn is not so far ahead, then it is even worse, as the removal of "entryists" will affect the result and provoke a legal challenge. That ls surely gonna destroy the party.
I suspect Labour is best off accepting the result.
If Corbyn wins, Corbyn plus a strong & balanced Shadow Cabinet team around him could work. It might -- stranger things have happened.
I am really struck by just how unpredictable this whole thing has been. I hadn't heard of Corbyn since the eighties and didn't realise he was still an MP. The initial price of 100 to 1 seemed generous, I just assumed that any left wing candidate would crash and burn. I am still finding it hard to accept that he is anywhere near sweeping the board - just being in with a chance still seems beyond probability. And the idea that Labour would roughly double its nominal activist base a few months after such a poor showing in the general election? If I had to predict that a left wing candidate was ever going to lead the Labour Party I would have plumped for it being due to a catastrophic fall rather than rise in paid up members.
So people who are confidently predicting the effect of a Corbyn leadership - good or bad - either know a lot more than I do or are simply deluding themselves.
From now on my working assumption is going to be that neither I nor anybody else knows anything.
This mania belongs more in the realm of religion than politics ; the vacuous Facebook users are the worst of all ; these folks have a short attention span and use the same criteria for voting that they use when voting on the X Factor or Big Brother ; they will elect a complete idiot like Corbyn and then return to their empty lives of trash TV and music
No, Facebook is used by people of all stripes, it is just a tool. In my case, we are talking young professionals - architects, doctors, teachers, media folk, personal trainers, people who are probably contributing a lot more to the world than you are in other words.
I think the story's own link to 'Cheerleader Wardrobe Malfunctions' is even better. What will poor Tessa make of the Indy's support of these 'unrealistic images' I wonder?
Back to your topic - it seems the Mark Steel is some sort of comedian, never heard of him myself but what we appear to have is the mobilisation of the 'Live at the Apollo Vote' by the Corbynites. How far will that take them?
I've seen mark steel be funny. His problem is he's come to believe shouting 'I hate Tories' is in itself funny, because people generally expect more subtlety I guess, so not being subtle is 'funny'. Plenty of people may agree with his sentiment, but just saying it isn't funny.
This barring is going to make Labour's situation even worse.
This only makes the whole election open to a legal challenge should Corbyn lose - unless the T&Cs of the ability to join up via the £3 are really specific. The Unions have the cash to mount a legal challenge but the rest of the candidates do not.
Like various unsuccessful Tory applicants. Cod Cockney Mark Steel actively campaigned against Labour in May.
Camilla Long said he spoke a lot of words without actually saying anything beyond cliches. She was really disappointed in his speech/expected something more than student union reasoning.
On the subject (from the previous thread) about whether Jeremy Corbyn is thick (or not): in Croydon last week he said that he couldn't, as leader of the party, write every detail of a manifesto or list of policies on his own. They would have to be worked out by masses of ordinary people discussing in community halls, not posh people in focus groups in exclusive hotels.
Maybe that's subconscious lefty code meaning that he's a thicko who hasn't got a clue about any details? He just knows a few lefty slogans of the type which are enough to get a rebellious backbencher on TV, but not enough to build proper policies for being LOTO or PM.
So how I don't the thick posh like yourself and camilla long are really his target audience.
I am really struck by just how unpredictable this whole thing has been. I hadn't heard of Corbyn since the eighties and didn't realise he was still an MP. The initial price of 100 to 1 seemed generous, I just assumed that any left wing candidate would crash and burn. I am still finding it hard to accept that he is anywhere near sweeping the board - just being in with a chance still seems beyond probability. And the idea that Labour would roughly double its nominal activist base a few months after such a poor showing in the general election? If I had to predict that a left wing candidate was ever going to lead the Labour Party I would have plumped for it being due to a catastrophic fall rather than rise in paid up members.
So people who are confidently predicting the effect of a Corbyn leadership - good or bad - either know a lot more than I do or are simply deluding themselves.
From now on my working assumption is going to be that neither I nor anybody else knows anything.
This mania belongs more in the realm of religion than politics ; the vacuous Facebook users are the worst of all ; these folks have a short attention span and use the same criteria for voting that they use when voting on the X Factor or Big Brother ; they will elect a complete idiot like Corbyn and then return to their empty lives of trash TV and music
I think one of the lessons from this leadership episode is that, while looking at social media comments is an awful way to predict a national contest, it makes sense in a contest like this where the electoral base is very narrow and likely to be energised - with hindsight, if you looked at the comments in the Guardian and the various Labour-supporting websites from several weeks ago, it was very clear that JC had a much greater chance of winning than the odds suggested.
In retrospect it all comes into clear focus ; the writing was on the wall for weeks but I just refused to see it as it is all just so bizarre ...the once mighty LP trying to commit political suicide before our very eyes , because let's face it , Corbynism is about defeatism , about the Labour supporters giving up ever trying to win an election and relegating themselves to the realm of a fringe party protest movement ! The goons may try and spin this as a victory of sorts but it's not , it's clearly defeat !...no wonder the Tories are applauding Corbyn , they simply cannot believe their luck
This barring is going to make Labour's situation even worse.
This only makes the whole election open to a legal challenge should Corbyn lose - unless the T&Cs of the ability to join up via the £3 are really specific. The Unions have the cash to mount a legal challenge but the rest of the candidates do not.
Like various unsuccessful Tory applicants. Cod Cockney Mark Steel actively campaigned against Labour in May.
Yes, but can it be proved that he would not support Labour under Corbyn?
That's not the criteria. It's support of the Labour party. Steel has demonstrated he does not support Labour.
I think the story's own link to 'Cheerleader Wardrobe Malfunctions' is even better. What will poor Tessa make of the Indy's support of these 'unrealistic images' I wonder?
Back to your topic - it seems the Mark Steel is some sort of comedian, never heard of him myself but what we appear to have is the mobilisation of the 'Live at the Apollo Vote' by the Corbynites. How far will that take them?
Mark Steel is lefty skin spread over smugness. He is the sort of person who puts himself forward as a charity prize to "do a gig in your living room". Then when a four-figure sum secured this (dubious) prize, reneged when the winner wasn't in Hampstead or Islington, but in Grimsby.... The man is the full four asterisks.....
It's pretty clear that there is a huge desire for an idological leader who doesn't fit the establishment stereotype. It's so tangible it's almost exciting. The nasty Tories the sleazy Blairites the opportunist Lib Dems....
People want to believe that somewhere out there is somebody different. Someone who wont kow tow to the corporatist agenda that all our politicians now subscribe to.
I'm all for it. The only pity is that I don't think Corbyn will live up to expectations but what he might do is encourage somebody else who isn't an establisment clone to get the confidence tostep forward
I think the story's own link to 'Cheerleader Wardrobe Malfunctions' is even better. What will poor Tessa make of the Indy's support of these 'unrealistic images' I wonder?
Back to your topic - it seems the Mark Steel is some sort of comedian, never heard of him myself but what we appear to have is the mobilisation of the 'Live at the Apollo Vote' by the Corbynites. How far will that take them?
Mark Steel is lefty skin spread over smugness. He is the sort of person who puts himself forward as a charity prize to "do a gig in your living room". Then when a four-figure sum secured this (dubious) prize, reneged when the winner wasn't in Hampstead or Islington, but in Grimsby.... The man is the full four asterisks.....
A huge number of my facebook friends, who are not left wing activists but by and large natural labour material being young (in spirit if not in body), intelligent, and minded towards a better world, but have lost any interest in labour as it was, have been signing up in droves at the last minute. The sheer uniformity of this response suggests that this can't be an anomaly. This isn't some terrifying plot by the evil unions and reds under the bed, it's genuine interest from people who were sick of mainstream Westminster politics as was.
My Facebook feed is pretty similar from my old med school mates. Clearing out the private sector parasites in the NHS counts for a lot with them. The IRA is history, of little more interest to them than the Chartists or Jacobites.
But the older electorate do remember the IRA and they do vote.
And what happens if/when there is an Islamist atrocity targeted at a synagogue, as has happened in Belgium, cheered on by his Hamas "friends" and JC finds himself unable - as with the IRA - to condemn it? Might your Facebook friends wake up then?
My med school friends are now into their fifties. The troubles in Northern Ireland are now over (at least in common belief) so are as distant as the Miners strike in their relevance to modern politics. Even the Queen shakes hands with Martain McGuinness now.
There is also a lot of sympathy for the palestinians, and not just amongst Islamists. I am sure you recall the pb threads during the Gaza invasion last year, where only a few like us spoke up in Israels defence.
I think that the Corbynists have a blindspot about Islamofascism. It needs to be rooted out and opposed at every turn by progressives on the left. It is the single biggest threat to liberal values and social justice in the world.
If Corbyn wins, Corbyn plus a strong & balanced Shadow Cabinet team around him could work. It might -- stranger things have happened.
There seems to be considerable doubt that a Corbyn shadow cabinet would be either strong or balanced, rather than say a love-in of old comrades and Owen Jones types.
Camilla Long said he spoke a lot of words without actually saying anything beyond cliches. She was really disappointed in his speech/expected something more than student union reasoning.
On the subject (from the previous thread) about whether Jeremy Corbyn is thick (or not): in Croydon last week he said that he couldn't, as leader of the party, write every detail of a manifesto or list of policies on his own. They would have to be worked out by masses of ordinary people discussing in community halls, not posh people in focus groups in exclusive hotels.
Maybe that's subconscious lefty code meaning that he's a thicko who hasn't got a clue about any details? He just knows a few lefty slogans of the type which are enough to get a rebellious backbencher on TV, but not enough to build proper policies for being LOTO or PM.
So how I don't the thick posh like yourself and camilla long are really his target audience.
Ah, Mr Wisemann, stepping in to fill that some time vacant pb.com Misogynist post?
If Corbyn wins, Corbyn plus a strong & balanced Shadow Cabinet team around him could work. It might -- stranger things have happened.
There seems to be considerable doubt that a Corbyn shadow cabinet would be either strong or balanced, rather than say a love-in of old comrades and Owen Jones types.
If corbyn wins, I could easily see someone like Owen Jones jumping on board as a MP.
Mr. Foxinsox, there's a difference between shaking hands with someone decades after the Good Friday Agreement, and moments after the attempted murder of the British Government.
I think the story's own link to 'Cheerleader Wardrobe Malfunctions' is even better. What will poor Tessa make of the Indy's support of these 'unrealistic images' I wonder?
Back to your topic - it seems the Mark Steel is some sort of comedian, never heard of him myself but what we appear to have is the mobilisation of the 'Live at the Apollo Vote' by the Corbynites. How far will that take them?
Mark Steel is lefty skin spread over smugness. He is the sort of person who puts himself forward as a charity prize to "do a gig in your living room". Then when a four-figure sum secured this (dubious) prize, reneged when the winner wasn't in Hampstead or Islington, but in Grimsby.... The man is the full four asterisks.....
He is a self-satisfied arsehole. His Cod Cockney accent is all you need to know about him in order to undrstand what a total tosser he is.
No, Facebook is used by people of all stripes, it is just a tool. In my case, we are talking young professionals - architects, doctors, teachers, media folk, personal trainers, people who are probably contributing a lot more to the world than you are in other words.
Not sure that I count Personal Trainers as Young Professionals...
Nice quote from Lab Uncut:
>Corbyn and his supporters aren’t shifting the Overton window, they are preparing to defenestrate the Labour party through it
Patrick, you really shouldn't take the P out of the Labour Party.
Oh, go on then - everyone else is!
The Labour Party is a malign destructive cancer. I have no problem with a coherent, principled, sensible left wing party - in fact I'm sure the country needs one as opposition right now. But Labour have ruined the public finances every time they get in, they seek to close down every debate as 'racist' or ' nasty', they gave us spin and brutal cynical machine politics. In short they are evil. And a pointless directionless vacuous evil to boot. The sooner they are gone the sooner a decent left wing replacement might emerge. Fuck 'em!
Labour appears to be a party at war with common sense.
I see FPT that some think that "Iran is a more inclusive democracy" for instance. Well of course JC has shilled for Iran's propaganda TV station, Press TV. So in a few weeks we could have as Leader of the official Opposition a man who has appeared on the propaganda arm of a country which ordered the murder of a British citizen. A British citizen our security services then had to spend years and much money protecting.
Camilla Long said he spoke a lot of words without actually saying anything beyond cliches. She was really disappointed in his speech/expected something more than student union reasoning.
On the subject (from the previous thread) about whether Jeremy Corbyn is thick (or not): in Croydon last week he said that he couldn't, as leader of the party, write every detail of a manifesto or list of policies on his own. They would have to be worked out by masses of ordinary people discussing in community halls, not posh people in focus groups in exclusive hotels.
Maybe that's subconscious lefty code meaning that he's a thicko who hasn't got a clue about any details? He just knows a few lefty slogans of the type which are enough to get a rebellious backbencher on TV, but not enough to build proper policies for being LOTO or PM.
So how I don't the thick posh like yourself and camilla long are really his target audience.
Ah, Mr Wisemann, stepping in to fill that some time vacant pb.com Misogynist post?
Another of the full four asterisks....
Erm... No - I don't think I've ever been known for holding back on calling PB Tory men thick or posh where deserved (ie very often). I'm for equal opportunities and treatment in this regard, as in all others.
This barring is going to make Labour's situation even worse.
This only makes the whole election open to a legal challenge should Corbyn lose - unless the T&Cs of the ability to join up via the £3 are really specific. The Unions have the cash to mount a legal challenge but the rest of the candidates do not.
Like various unsuccessful Tory applicants. Cod Cockney Mark Steel actively campaigned against Labour in May.
Yes, but can it be proved that he would not support Labour under Corbyn?
That's not the criteria. It's support of the Labour party. Steel has demonstrated he does not support Labour.
I think the moot point is that he did not support Labour as it was led by EdM and TB, but how do you define Labour - most parties change and evolve with time and under JC he has signed up.
All this shows that farce of deciding on a leader before deciding on policy.
A huge number of my facebook friends, who are not left wing activists but by and large natural labour material being young (in spirit if not in body), intelligent, and minded towards a better world, but have lost any interest in labour as it was, have been signing up in droves at the last minute. The sheer uniformity of this response suggests that this can't be an anomaly. This isn't some terrifying plot by the evil unions and reds under the bed, it's genuine interest from people who were sick of mainstream Westminster politics as was.
My Facebook feed is pretty similar from my old med school mates. Clearing out the private sector parasites in the NHS counts for a lot with them. The IRA is history, of little more interest to them than the Chartists or Jacobites.
But the older electorate do remember the IRA and they do vote.
And what happens if/when there is an Islamist atrocity targeted at a synagogue, as has happened in Belgium, cheered on by his Hamas "friends" and JC finds himself unable - as with the IRA - to condemn it? Might your Facebook friends wake up then?
My med school friends are now into their fifties. The troubles in Northern Ireland are now over (at least in common belief) so are as distant as the Miners strike in their relevance to modern politics. Even the Queen shakes hands with Martain McGuinness now.
There is also a lot of sympathy for the palestinians, and not just amongst Islamists. I am sure you recall the pb threads during the Gaza invasion last year, where only a few like us spoke up in Israels defence.
I think that the Corbynists have a blindspot about Islamofascism. It needs to be rooted out and opposed at every turn by progressives on the left. It is the single biggest threat to liberal values and social justice in the world.
Agree and it is not just the left who need to come to reality on this matter.
Jezza is Mr Angry, and some of his anger is aimed at some reasonable targets. But he's incoherent when you look closely. He's a vehicle to let off steam, and once that subsides, you're still left with the nutter on the bus.
I voted Labour when Michael Foot was leader so I know the feeling.
A huge number of my facebook friends, who are not left wing activists but by and large natural labour material being young (in spirit if not in body), intelligent, and minded towards a better world, but have lost any interest in labour as it was, have been signing up in droves at the last minute. The sheer uniformity of this response suggests that this can't be an anomaly. This isn't some terrifying plot by the evil unions and reds under the bed, it's genuine interest from people who were sick of mainstream Westminster politics as was.
My Facebook feed is pretty similar from my old med school mates. Clearing out the private sector parasites in the NHS counts for a lot with them. The IRA is history, of little more interest to them than the Chartists or Jacobites.
But the older electorate do remember the IRA and they do vote.
And what happens if/when there is an Islamist atrocity targeted at a synagogue, as has happened in Belgium, cheered on by his Hamas "friends" and JC finds himself unable - as with the IRA - to condemn it? Might your Facebook friends wake up then?
My med school friends are now into their fifties. The troubles in Northern Ireland are now over (at least in common belief) so are as distant as the Miners strike in their relevance to modern politics. Even the Queen shakes hands with Martain McGuinness now.
There is also a lot of sympathy for the palestinians, and not just amongst Islamists. I am sure you recall the pb threads during the Gaza invasion last year, where only a few like us spoke up in Israels defence.
I think that the Corbynists have a blindspot about Islamofascism. It needs to be rooted out and opposed at every turn by progressives on the left. It is the single biggest threat to liberal values and social justice in the world.
Like all left-wingers who see everything through the prism of class, Corbyn will sympathise with any regime or group that is opposed to the British state and/or the US. There will be plenty of evidence of this and it will make its way into the media and all his interviews as soon as he is elected. And it will do for him. He will not lead Labour into the 2020 election.
I am really struck by just how unpredictable this whole thing has been. I hadn't heard of Corbyn since the eighties and didn't realise he was still an MP. The initial price of 100 to 1 seemed generous, I just assumed that any left wing candidate would crash and burn. I am still finding it hard to accept that he is anywhere near sweeping the board - just being in with a chance still seems beyond probability. And the idea that Labour would roughly double its nominal activist base a few months after such a poor showing in the general election? If I had to predict that a left wing candidate was ever going to lead the Labour Party I would have plumped for it being due to a catastrophic fall rather than rise in paid up members.
So people who are confidently predicting the effect of a Corbyn leadership - good or bad - either know a lot more than I do or are simply deluding themselves.
From now on my working assumption is going to be that neither I nor anybody else knows anything.
This mania belongs more in the realm of religion than politics ; the vacuous Facebook users are the worst of all ; these folks have a short attention span and use the same criteria for voting that they use when voting on the X Factor or Big Brother ; they will elect a complete idiot like Corbyn and then return to their empty lives of trash TV and music
No, Facebook is used by people of all stripes, it is just a tool. In my case, we are talking young professionals - architects, doctors, teachers, media folk, personal trainers, people who are probably contributing a lot more to the world than you are in other words.
"Personal trainer" "professional" have these words ever appeared in the same sentence before? Do the words "con artist" mean anything to you?
Issues like support for Hamas or the IRA are not ones that primarily affect peoples’ votes (rightly or wrongly).
I think a Corbyn-led, anti-austerity Labour Party will do better in Wales & Scotland & London 2016 than the alternatives (a Cooper or Burnham led party). So, I’d expect Labour to tighten their grip on Wales, and begin to recover slowly in Scotland. What happens in 2020 is too far ahead to predict with any certainty.
The Guardian have re-opened comments on Tony Blair’s article. There are already 110 pages of rage and anger.
Could this become the largest outpouring of mass hatred & bile on the web?
Issues like support for Hamas or the IRA are not ones that primarily affect peoples’ votes (rightly or wrongly).
I think a Corbyn-led, anti-austerity Labour Party will do better in Wales & Scotland & London 2016 than the alternatives (a Cooper or Burnham led party). So, I’d expect Labour to tighten their grip on Wales, and begin to recover slowly in Scotland. What happens in 2020 is too far ahead to predict with any certainty.
The Guardian have re-opened comments on Tony Blair’s article. There are already 110 pages of rage and anger.
Could this become the largest outpouring of mass hatred & bile on the web?
I agree that these are not main issues but the impression it gives is that Corbyn is not a patriot and is happy to side with our enemies. If he is elected I would expect the Mail to dust off the man who hated Britain article about Miliband's Dad and apply it to Corbyn
Mr. Foxinsox, there's a difference between shaking hands with someone decades after the Good Friday Agreement, and moments after the attempted murder of the British Government.
It is history now. My dad was a quarter mile from the Birmingham pub bomb when it went off.
Issues like support for Hamas or the IRA are not ones that primarily affect peoples’ votes (rightly or wrongly).
I think a Corbyn-led, anti-austerity Labour Party will do better in Wales & Scotland & London 2016 than the alternatives (a Cooper or Burnham led party). So, I’d expect Labour to tighten their grip on Wales, and begin to recover slowly in Scotland. What happens in 2020 is too far ahead to predict with any certainty.
The Guardian have re-opened comments on Tony Blair’s article. There are already 110 pages of rage and anger.
Could this become the largest outpouring of mass hatred & bile on the web?
Issues like support for Hamas or the IRA are not ones that primarily affect peoples’ votes (rightly or wrongly).
I think a Corbyn-led, anti-austerity Labour Party will do better in Wales & Scotland & London 2016 than the alternatives (a Cooper or Burnham led party). So, I’d expect Labour to tighten their grip on Wales, and begin to recover slowly in Scotland. What happens in 2020 is too far ahead to predict with any certainty.
The Guardian have re-opened comments on Tony Blair’s article. There are already 110 pages of rage and anger.
Could this become the largest outpouring of mass hatred & bile on the web?
I agree that these are not main issues but the impression it gives is that Corbyn is not a patriot and is happy to side with our enemies. If he is elected I would expect the Mail to dust off the man who hated Britain article about Miliband's Dad and apply it to Corbyn
No one who reads the mail is likely to be voting for Corbyn anyway, what they say is irrelevant.
This barring is going to make Labour's situation even worse.
This only makes the whole election open to a legal challenge should Corbyn lose - unless the T&Cs of the ability to join up via the £3 are really specific. The Unions have the cash to mount a legal challenge but the rest of the candidates do not.
Like various unsuccessful Tory applicants. Cod Cockney Mark Steel actively campaigned against Labour in May.
Yes, but can it be proved that he would not support Labour under Corbyn?
That's not the criteria. It's support of the Labour party. Steel has demonstrated he does not support Labour.
I think the moot point is that he did not support Labour as it was led by EdM and TB, but how do you define Labour - most parties change and evolve with time and under JC he has signed up.
All this shows that farce of deciding on a leader before deciding on policy.
Labour is not currently led by JC. To be accepted you need to be a Labour supporter. Many aren't, but Steel is a public figure and so his active campaigning against Labour in May is known and demonstrable. He has been housted on his own cocky, fake cockney petard. Poor luvvie.
The voting begins in two days or so and most of the ballots will be returned quickly ; they must Blitz Corbyn NOW !...they must humiliate him and burst the bubble of fantasy that he promotes ; the King really is wearing no cloths , this Gandhi -like figure is a total fantasist living in a bygone era ...unfortunately the LP seem to lack the willpower and killer instinct to stop this nutter , indeed they seem to have accepted their fate that he is going to win and will have to endure him for a year or so until he is humiliated and discredited by the Tories and print media
It's pretty clear that there is a huge desire for an idological leader who doesn't fit the establishment stereotype. It's so tangible it's almost exciting.
So there are about 500,000 people voting in the Labour leadership contest, after last nights surprise 97,000 voters than UNITE and UNISON inexplicably lost down the back of the sofa until the last moment. Lets say 60% of those are going to vote for Corbyn, so 300,000 people.
The voting populations of the UK is around 50 million, so 0.6% of the population are hugely desiring this ideological leader.
Good article by TB, having read it. Give the CiF editors a raise - this is the culmination of weeks of btl rage. Trebles all round.
TB should form a party. He hasn't lost it. In one Graun article he has summarised the benefits and attractions of New Labour or Now Labour (one for you Mandy) 1,000x more effectively than any of the non-JC three.
As I read another of Cyclefree's posts....he talks to Hamas....he talked to the IRA.....he doesn't condemn Hezbollah.....he doesn't support the Americans....he doesn't condemn.....
Well thank God! Someone who is prepared to talk .....left field .....out of the box .....whatever you like to call it. It looks like people are waking up to the fact that we need a different type of politician. Someone who'll climb off the moral high ground for just long enough to try to understand somebody else's point of view.
We've had far too little humility from our leaders and far too much intransigence and I think people recognize it and are looking anywhere for something different
Good article by TB, having read it. Give the CiF editors a raise - this is the culmination of weeks of btl rage. Trebles all round.
TB should form a party. He hasn't lost it. In one Graun article he has summarised the benefits and attractions of New Labour or Now Labour (one for you Mandy) 1,000x more effectively than any of the non-JC three.
Go Tony!
But TB's main objective was and is not politics but money - politics was his vehicle to achieve that objective - as it was for Campbell, Mandelson etc.
As I read another of Cyclefree's posts....he talks to Hamas....he talked to the IRA.....he doesn't condemn Hezbollah.....he doesn't support the Americans....he doesn't condemn.....
Well thank God! Someone who is prepared to talk .....left field .....out of the box .....whatever you like to call it. It looks like people are waking up to the fact that we need a different type of politician. Someone who'll climb off the moral high ground for just long enough to try to understand somebody elses point of view.
We've had far too little humility from our leaders and far too much intransigence and I think people recognize it and are looking anywhere for something different
The initials JC might be a sign!
Are we back to talking about Neville Chamberlain again?
As I read another of Cyclefree's posts....he talks to Hamas....he talked to the IRA.....he doesn't condemn Hezbollah.....he doesn't support the Americans....he doesn't condemn.....
Well thank God! Someone who is prepared to talk .....left field .....out of the box .....whatever you like to call it. It looks like people are waking up to the fact that we need a different type of politician. Someone who'll climb off the moral high ground for just long enough to try to understand somebody elses point of view.
We've had far too little humility from our leaders and far too much intransigence and I think people recognize it and are looking anywhere for something different
As I read another of Cyclefree's posts....he talks to Hamas....he talked to the IRA.....he doesn't condemn Hezbollah.....he doesn't support the Americans....he doesn't condemn.....
Well thank God! Someone who is prepared to talk .....left field .....out of the box .....whatever you like to call it. It looks like people are waking up to the fact that we need a different type of politician. Someone who'll climb off the moral high ground for just long enough to try to understand somebody elses point of view.
We've had far too little humility from our leaders and far too much intransigence and I think people recognize it and are looking anywhere for something different
The initials JC might be a sign!
For the umpteenth time Roger.
Governments of all stripes talk to baddies. They know they are baddies but they also know that talking is critical to reach accommodation.
JC doesn't think they are baddies.
If you really can't see the difference then god help us (you).
I think the story's own link to 'Cheerleader Wardrobe Malfunctions' is even better. What will poor Tessa make of the Indy's support of these 'unrealistic images' I wonder?
Back to your topic - it seems the Mark Steel is some sort of comedian, never heard of him myself but what we appear to have is the mobilisation of the 'Live at the Apollo Vote' by the Corbynites. How far will that take them?
Mark Steel is lefty skin spread over smugness. He is the sort of person who puts himself forward as a charity prize to "do a gig in your living room". Then when a four-figure sum secured this (dubious) prize, reneged when the winner wasn't in Hampstead or Islington, but in Grimsby.... The man is the full four asterisks.....
He is a self-satisfied arsehole. His Cod Cockney accent is all you need to know about him in order to understand what a total tosser he is.
I have never heard of him, I try to keep my exposure to crass lefty stand-ups to a minimum, but not surprised at the descriptions. This is indeed what I meant earlier on by talking about the 'Live at the Apollo Vote'. It is an audience which giggles titters and gurns its way through a parade of 3rd rate dummy lefty comedians because it feels it has to even when there is no joke to laugh at. Perhaps it should be renamed the Total Tosser Vote
This barring is going to make Labour's situation even worse.
This only makes the whole election open to a legal challenge should Corbyn lose - unless the T&Cs of the ability to join up via the £3 are really specific. The Unions have the cash to mount a legal challenge but the rest of the candidates do not.
Like various unsuccessful Tory applicants. Cod Cockney Mark Steel actively campaigned against Labour in May.
Yes, but can it be proved that he would not support Labour under Corbyn?
That's not the criteria. It's support of the Labour party. Steel has demonstrated he does not support Labour.
I think the moot point is that he did not support Labour as it was led by EdM and TB, but how do you define Labour - most parties change and evolve with time and under JC he has signed up.
All this shows that farce of deciding on a leader before deciding on policy.
Labour is not currently led by JC. To be accepted you need to be a Labour supporter. Many aren't, but Steel is a public figure and so his active campaigning against Labour in May is known and demonstrable. He has been housted on his own cocky, fake cockney petard. Poor luvvie.
I did not vote Labour in 2015, but I have on occasions voted Labour in the past. Am I entitled to vote ?
The leadership election rules were designed to encourage voters to become engaged. Now the Labour Party is upset because the “wrong kind” of voters are becoming engaged in the election.
Of course, the rules are daft, but they are the rules, and I don’t see how it is possible to tell whether Mark Steel joined for legitimate reasons (he might genuinely want to rejoin Labour and work for a Labour Govt with Corbyn as PM) or despicable reasons (he wanted to disrupt the process). I suspect the former actually.
After all, you have admitted that you will not vote Labour if Corbyn wins. Why is your position any different to Mark Steel’s, who will not vote Labour if Cooper wins? Why are you entitled to vote and not Mark Steel?
As I read another of Cyclefree's posts....he talks to Hamas....he talked to the IRA.....he doesn't condemn Hezbollah.....he doesn't support the Americans....he doesn't condemn.....
Well thank God! Someone who is prepared to talk .....left field .....out of the box .....whatever you like to call it. It looks like people are waking up to the fact that we need a different type of politician. Someone who'll climb off the moral high ground for just long enough to try to understand somebody else's point of view.
We've had far too little humility from our leaders and far too much intransigence and I think people recognize it and are looking anywhere for something different
The initials JC might be a sign!
But it's not thinking outside the box. It's 100% predictable. Anyone which opposes the UK/US, and especially Israel is feted and courted.
Let's hope Cooper can do something game changing this morning.
She is the sensible choice , but she's hardly Lady Macbeth or Lucretia Borgio...she's a political eunuch without balls ...she is the equivalent of the orchester playing music as the Titanic sank
you don't think helping people get fit and eat right is a good thing?
If that's what they do, it is. But it isn't a profession, and puffing it up into one is what I suggested it was.
Many people have and are making a lot of money out of it. It is as valid a profession as a lawyer or an accountant - or are you seeking certain levels of qualifications? Actually if more people were even moderately fit it will save the NHS a huge amount of time and money.
Issues like support for Hamas or the IRA are not ones that primarily affect peoples’ votes (rightly or wrongly).
I think a Corbyn-led, anti-austerity Labour Party will do better in Wales & Scotland & London 2016 than the alternatives (a Cooper or Burnham led party). So, I’d expect Labour to tighten their grip on Wales, and begin to recover slowly in Scotland. What happens in 2020 is too far ahead to predict with any certainty.
The Guardian have re-opened comments on Tony Blair’s article. There are already 110 pages of rage and anger.
Could this become the largest outpouring of mass hatred & bile on the web?
Issues like support for Hamas or the IRA are not ones that primarily affect peoples’ votes (rightly or wrongly).
I think a Corbyn-led, anti-austerity Labour Party will do better in Wales & Scotland & London 2016 than the alternatives (a Cooper or Burnham led party). So, I’d expect Labour to tighten their grip on Wales, and begin to recover slowly in Scotland. What happens in 2020 is too far ahead to predict with any certainty.
The Guardian have re-opened comments on Tony Blair’s article. There are already 110 pages of rage and anger.
Could this become the largest outpouring of mass hatred & bile on the web?
I agree that these are not main issues but the impression it gives is that Corbyn is not a patriot and is happy to side with our enemies. If he is elected I would expect the Mail to dust off the man who hated Britain article about Miliband's Dad and apply it to Corbyn
Well, at least this time it would be somewhat relevant then.
As I read another of Cyclefree's posts....he talks to Hamas....he talked to the IRA.....he doesn't condemn Hezbollah.....he doesn't support the Americans....he doesn't condemn.....
Well thank God! Someone who is prepared to talk .....left field .....out of the box .....whatever you like to call it. It looks like people are waking up to the fact that we need a different type of politician. Someone who'll climb off the moral high ground for just long enough to try to understand somebody else's point of view.
We've had far too little humility from our leaders and far too much intransigence and I think people recognize it and are looking anywhere for something different
The initials JC might be a sign!
There is a difference between being willing to talk and understand the other side, and someone who automatically, without seeming conditions, thinks it is the appropriate course of action. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't - Corbyn appears to believe it always is, and that lack of nuance is a problem, just as it would be for someone who insists we never talk to our enemies/terrorists, ignoring the reality that sometimes you have to.
Of course all this Labour angst is basically just a primal scream from a party whose reason for being ended quite some time back. Labour is the party of public largesse. Of deficit funded public spending. An anti-business, anti-private, anti-individual machine. The party of the state, by the state, for the state - with a big fat ugly dose of moralising nannying on top.
But we now see very clearly from countries like Greece, Argentina, Venezuela, Puerto Rico and soon to be Japan and many others that you simply cannot spend beyond your means forever. There is in fact a mathematical, systemic limit to the amount a country can spend or borrow sustainably. The need for sound money is an immutable fact of life. A fact that goes against the very grain of the Labour psyche. They simply cannot ever square the circle of who they are and what they instinctively want to do with the hard, Darwinian facts of economic reality.
Osborne has placed the Tories on the right side of the line re accepting economic realities. The exact placement on the right side of the line is of course debatable. What is not really debatable or electable is a party that determinedly maintains itself on the lalaland side of the line. The challenge Labour faces is not about electing a leader - it's about facing up to the world the way is rather than the world they would like to be facing. This is a challenge for voters, members, activists, grass roots - not politicians. The left is wrong. Historically, blindly wrong. About everything.
This barring is going to make Labour's situation even worse.
This only makes the whole election open to a legal challenge should Corbyn lose - unless the T&Cs of the ability to join up via the £3 are really specific. The Unions have the cash to mount a legal challenge but the rest of the candidates do not.
Like various unsuccessful Tory applicants. Cod Cockney Mark Steel actively campaigned against Labour in May.
Yes, but can it be proved that he would not support Labour under Corbyn?
That's not the criteria. It's support of the Labour party. Steel has demonstrated he does not support Labour.
I think the moot point is that he did not support Labour as it was led by EdM and TB, but how do you define Labour - most parties change and evolve with time and under JC he has signed up.
All this shows that farce of deciding on a leader before deciding on policy.
Labour is not currently led by JC. To be accepted you need to be a Labour supporter. Many aren't, but Steel is a public figure and so his active campaigning against Labour in May is known and demonstrable. He has been housted on his own cocky, fake cockney petard. Poor luvvie.
I did not vote Labour in 2015, but I have on occasions voted Labour in the past. Am I entitled to vote ?
The leadership election rules were designed to encourage voters to become engaged. Now the Labour Party is upset because the “wrong kind” of voters are becoming engaged in the election.
Of course, the rules are daft, but they are the rules, and I don’t see how it is possible to tell whether Mark Steel joined for legitimate reasons (he might genuinely want to rejoin Labour and work for a Labour Govt with Corbyn as PM) or despicable reasons (he wanted to disrupt the process). I suspect the former actually.
After all, you have admitted that you will not vote Labour if Corbyn wins. Why is your position any different to Mark Steel’s, who will not vote Labour if Cooper wins? Why are you entitled to vote and not Mark Steel?
I'm not entitled to vote, but unlike Mark Steel and Toby Young I did not actively and demonstrably campaign against Labour in May.
Us PBtories have said for many years now that labour where more and more in hock to the unions, and this was the ultimate outcome. Remember Falkirk which led to some of the leadership election changes....guess just another thing we were wrong about.
All labour pigeons are coming home to roost.
It's not so much the unions. This is a genuinely popular contest. Tens of thousands have joined Labour or registered as supporters.
Yes - what's happening is that many members (old and new) feel that the cautious, compromising and equivocal approach of recent elections has left Labour too similar to the Tories, to the point that it's difficult to summon up much interest in the election results. They largely accept that it will be difficult to win, but think that it's better to challenge with a distinctive programme which might win than have another go with a me-too programme that might lose anyway. The stuff about infiltration etc. is all froth - this is a genuine reflection of party opinion.
Labour appears to be a party at war with common sense.
I see FPT that some think that "Iran is a more inclusive democracy" for instance. Well of course JC has shilled for Iran's propaganda TV station, Press TV. So in a few weeks we could have as Leader of the official Opposition a man who has appeared on the propaganda arm of a country which ordered the murder of a British citizen. A British citizen our security services then had to spend years and much money protecting.
Cyclefree, I've been on Press TV several times, explicitly as a supporter of Israel and critic of Iran - I argued there for Western policy of sanctions on Iran, suggesting that they were the peaceful way of the West's expressing dislike of the nuclear programme without going to war. Press TV is of course financed by the regime, but they think it useful to appear to be open to different viewpoints, so they give an airing to them. I think you'd probably feel that accepting is being a useful idiot? - but I felt that any opportunity to put across an alternative view should be taken.
Like the Hamas controversy, this reflects a wider disagreement on whether one should engage with enemies or boycott them. There are reasonable arguments both ways.
As I read another of Cyclefree's posts....he talks to Hamas....he talked to the IRA.....he doesn't condemn Hezbollah.....he doesn't support the Americans....he doesn't condemn.....
Well thank God! Someone who is prepared to talk .....left field .....out of the box .....whatever you like to call it. It looks like people are waking up to the fact that we need a different type of politician. Someone who'll climb off the moral high ground for just long enough to try to understand somebody else's point of view.
We've had far too little humility from our leaders and far too much intransigence and I think people recognize it and are looking anywhere for something different
The initials JC might be a sign!
Just likes those leftist apologists we had for the Soviet Union! It was a shame we didn't have more of them. It was their kindness and understanding that won the Cold War. People like Reagan and Thatcher didn't help at all.
Well that looks like a lot of verbal flatulence and stating the obvious, she better be careful how she pitches it, it could easily comes across and very finger-wagging and hectoring from the excerpts, which I am sure will go down well.
Let's hope Cooper can do something game changing this morning.
She is the sensible choice , but she's hardly Lady Macbeth or Lucretia Borgio...she's a political eunuch without balls ...she is the equivalent of the orchester playing music as the Titanic sank
Well that looks like a lot of verbal flatulence and stating the obvious, she better be careful how she pitches it, it could easily comes across and very finger-wagging and hectoring from the excerpts, which I am sure will go down well.
Mr. Foxinsox, there's a difference between shaking hands with someone decades after the Good Friday Agreement, and moments after the attempted murder of the British Government.
It could be argued that the GFA itself was an act of surrender by the IRA/Sinn Fein. Or indeed by everyone else as well when they all realised they had bombed themselves into a corner. If a civil war does not end in compromise and reconciliation then it ends in massacre. Just ask the Matabele in Zimbabwe.
I'm not entitled to vote, but unlike Mark Steel and Toby Young I did not actively and demonstrably campaign against Labour in May.
Toby Young is clearly in a different category -- he entered for malevolent reasons.
Even if Mark Steel did campaign against Labour in 2015, I just don’t see that his position as unreasonable. He wants to see a more left-wing Labour Party. He has been offered the choice of doing for 3 pounds and making his wish a reality by voting for Corbyn, He takes the opportunity.
You wouldn’t be objecting if, say, someone from the centre who had campaigned for the LibDems (like the good Foxinsox) paid 3 pounds and joined up because he wished to see a more centrist Labour Party and wanted to vote for Liz Kendall (whom I gather he rather admires).
"Saying that “there’s a battle on for the soul of our party”, she will challenge to those supporting Corbyn’s bid for the leadership, she will ask them to “tell me what you think is more radical: spending billions of pounds we haven’t got switching control of some power stations from a group of white middle aged men in an energy company to a group of white middle aged men in Whitehall as Jeremy wants, or extending Sure Start [the early years programme Cooper helped set up in government]; giving mothers the power and confidence to transform their own lives and transform their children’s lives for years to come.”
Comments
One thing is for sure , if the sensible people in the LP want to save their party from a total meltdown then they've got to go out in attack dog mode and tear Corbyn to pieces ; unfortunately , Burnham is a total wet Lettuce and Cooper just lacks balls and the killer instinct ; and let's face it Corbyn is an easy target who is a failure, achieving nothing , after 33 years in politics ...he is nothing more than a professional protester and pound shop Michael Foot ....they need to go out and Blitz Corbyn NOW !
Whether he has the vote of those in the West Midlands who remember the IRA bombing Brum's pubs is quite another.....
Buzz, buzz.
I'd defo have John Trickett down for a job, Cat Smith as loyalty blanket and John McDonnell. Diane for Shad Home Sec?
Back to your topic - it seems the Mark Steel is some sort of comedian, never heard of him myself but what we appear to have is the mobilisation of the 'Live at the Apollo Vote' by the Corbynites. How far will that take them?
If Corbyn is not so far ahead, then it is even worse, as the removal of "entryists" will affect the result and provoke a legal challenge. That ls surely gonna destroy the party.
I suspect Labour is best off accepting the result.
If Corbyn wins, Corbyn plus a strong & balanced Shadow Cabinet team around him could work. It might -- stranger things have happened.
Oh, go on then - everyone else is!
https://twitter.com/mrmarksteel/status/631591828463202305
People want to believe that somewhere out there is somebody different. Someone who wont kow tow to the corporatist agenda that all our politicians now subscribe to.
I'm all for it. The only pity is that I don't think Corbyn will live up to expectations but what he might do is encourage somebody else who isn't an establisment clone to get the confidence tostep forward
LOL
There is also a lot of sympathy for the palestinians, and not just amongst Islamists. I am sure you recall the pb threads during the Gaza invasion last year, where only a few like us spoke up in Israels defence.
I think that the Corbynists have a blindspot about Islamofascism. It needs to be rooted out and opposed at every turn by progressives on the left. It is the single biggest threat to liberal values and social justice in the world.
Another of the full four asterisks....
Nice quote from Lab Uncut:
>Corbyn and his supporters aren’t shifting the Overton window, they are preparing to defenestrate the Labour party through it
(BTW I don't like Labour much)
Supports Cooper.
No way - it speaks of a much wider mindset that we've seen Corbyn display in spades for decades.
All this shows that farce of deciding on a leader before deciding on policy.
Meacher still, after I think splitting it in 2 separate divorces, has a substantial buy to let portfolio.
But then Wedgie kept his wealth and dodged all that inheritance tax.
Perhaps they won't go for those evil landlords as resolutely as Osborne is doing.
Jezza is Mr Angry, and some of his anger is aimed at some reasonable targets. But he's incoherent when you look closely. He's a vehicle to let off steam, and once that subsides, you're still left with the nutter on the bus.
I voted Labour when Michael Foot was leader so I know the feeling.
Edited extra bit: it's also crucial to learn from history.
I know he's a pretty hard Leftie - was he in Militant or something?
The voting populations of the UK is around 50 million, so 0.6% of the population are hugely desiring this ideological leader.
TB should form a party. He hasn't lost it. In one Graun article he has summarised the benefits and attractions of New Labour or Now Labour (one for you Mandy) 1,000x more effectively than any of the non-JC three.
Go Tony!
Well thank God! Someone who is prepared to talk .....left field .....out of the box .....whatever you like to call it. It looks like people are waking up to the fact that we need a different type of politician. Someone who'll climb off the moral high ground for just long enough to try to understand somebody else's point of view.
We've had far too little humility from our leaders and far too much intransigence and I think people recognize it and are looking anywhere for something different
The initials JC might be a sign!
Governments of all stripes talk to baddies. They know they are baddies but they also know that talking is critical to reach accommodation.
JC doesn't think they are baddies.
If you really can't see the difference then god help us (you).
Endorsed Lucas in GE2015
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/24/celebrities-sign-statement-support-caroline-lucas-not-green-party
This is indeed what I meant earlier on by talking about the 'Live at the Apollo Vote'. It is an audience which giggles titters and gurns its way through a parade of 3rd rate dummy lefty comedians because it feels it has to even when there is no joke to laugh at. Perhaps it should be renamed the Total Tosser Vote
The leadership election rules were designed to encourage voters to become engaged. Now the Labour Party is upset because the “wrong kind” of voters are becoming engaged in the election.
Of course, the rules are daft, but they are the rules, and I don’t see how it is possible to tell whether Mark Steel joined for legitimate reasons (he might genuinely want to rejoin Labour and work for a Labour Govt with Corbyn as PM) or despicable reasons (he wanted to disrupt the process). I suspect the former actually.
After all, you have admitted that you will not vote Labour if Corbyn wins. Why is your position any different to Mark Steel’s, who will not vote Labour if Cooper wins? Why are you entitled to vote and not Mark Steel?
He's died in the wool far leftie with some quips attached.
But we now see very clearly from countries like Greece, Argentina, Venezuela, Puerto Rico and soon to be Japan and many others that you simply cannot spend beyond your means forever. There is in fact a mathematical, systemic limit to the amount a country can spend or borrow sustainably. The need for sound money is an immutable fact of life. A fact that goes against the very grain of the Labour psyche. They simply cannot ever square the circle of who they are and what they instinctively want to do with the hard, Darwinian facts of economic reality.
Osborne has placed the Tories on the right side of the line re accepting economic realities. The exact placement on the right side of the line is of course debatable. What is not really debatable or electable is a party that determinedly maintains itself on the lalaland side of the line. The challenge Labour faces is not about electing a leader - it's about facing up to the world the way is rather than the world they would like to be facing. This is a challenge for voters, members, activists, grass roots - not politicians. The left is wrong. Historically, blindly wrong. About everything.
Look at Gore Vidal's book 'The Messiah' and the main character John Cave. It's very apposite
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/88873.Messiah
@stephenkb: Yvette Cooper's speech this morning looks like a corker: http://t.co/jopHOCyL7k http://t.co/V0SOrPZfLL
"So might the fact that the likely deputy and leader are called 'Tom & Jerry'...... "
LOL!!!!
Like the Hamas controversy, this reflects a wider disagreement on whether one should engage with enemies or boycott them. There are reasonable arguments both ways.
Besides, Cooper's piss poor campaigning abilities prove that she's completely useless anyway.
Anyone else bother listening to Red Ken on Today earlier? The problem with the deficit can be solved by simply printing more money...
Even if Mark Steel did campaign against Labour in 2015, I just don’t see that his position as unreasonable. He wants to see a more left-wing Labour Party. He has been offered the choice of doing for 3 pounds and making his wish a reality by voting for Corbyn, He takes the opportunity.
You wouldn’t be objecting if, say, someone from the centre who had campaigned for the LibDems (like the good Foxinsox) paid 3 pounds and joined up because he wished to see a more centrist Labour Party and wanted to vote for Liz Kendall (whom I gather he rather admires).
GO JEZZA!!!!!!!!
"Joke Candidate ?"
I'm afraid this time the prize goes to Carlotta
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/08/yvette-cooper-theres-battle-soul-our-party
Madness.