Oh for nostalgia: When I was a tiddler, before 1940, the Beano and Dandy were tuppence a pop. Farthings were de rigueur change and kept. We had solid silver threepenny bits in circulation. The guinea was what the rich spent, and florins the poor and middle class. Pound notes were mainly blue with a bit of pink thrown in and £5 pound notes were like white paper tablecloths.
Ask JackW, he may also remember travelling on a bus for a ha'penny.
I was in Bristol 1977-80 (race riots), then London 1980-82 (all the buildings still smog black and depressing). Yemen 1982-85 was not such a cultural shock then as it would be now.
I was born at the end of the seventies so obviously don't remember it, but everyone I speak to who was around loved those times. Seems like doing that period down is mainly a right wing loony thing.
Have you ever considered the possibility that your acquaintances are a self selected bunch of stupid losers, what with you being one yourself?
I was in Bristol 1977-80 (race riots), then London 1980-82 (all the buildings still smog black and depressing). Yemen 1982-85 was not such a cultural shock then as it would be now.
Ferguson, MO had race riots this year.
Good heavens. I was in Bristol then too. Were you at the university?
I'm too young to remember the 70s, I'm more a child of the 80s if you hadn't realised from my musical tastes.
TSE- the 70's was fantastic. Bowl headed haircuts, Carry on Movies, cars that always broke down, the birth of pot noodles, slade, 10CC and Grease, Bjon Borg, the endless summer of 76, Pans People, black and white TV, Tony Jacklin, following Scotland at world cup finals cause England always got knocked out, crappy porn mags that got so passed around the sticky pages fell apart- those were the days. And they were the days.
I thought "Those were the days" was from the 60s ...
Curious thing - I've lived in 5 countries, but I've never heard outside Britain anyone referring to a decade generically - the seventies were like this, the eighties were like that, etc. But everyone I know does it in Britain, and most people have definite preferences, as we're seeing on this thread. Are we changing more rapidly than other countries, so the distinction between decades is sharper?
What nonsense. How do the others pulling out stop Corbyn?
Brown was elected nem con in 2007....
So Mandelson's secret plan to prevent a Corbyn victory was to have Corbyn elected unopposed and it's foiled already because the candidates entered the "You should quit. Why me? You should quit, not me." phase.
Curious thing - I've lived in 5 countries, but I've never heard outside Britain anyone referring to a decade generically - the seventies were like this, the eighties were like that, etc. But everyone I know does it in Britain, and most people have definite preferences, as we're seeing on this thread. Are we changing more rapidly than other countries, so the distinction between decades is sharper?
I've heard people from countries like Netherlands and Sweden talking about decades in that way but only in English which probably doesn't count.
Strange things have been happening in Scottish politics of late, and Jeremy Corbyn’s speech in Glasgow on Friday was one of them. I’m a Labour supporter, and can safely say it was the most electrifying and energetic rally I have ever attended. Labour’s problem in England may well be a failure to win in the market towns, but its problem in Scotland was losing 40 of its 41 seats to a party that outflanked it on the left. I suspect that even before Jeremy Corbyn’s visit, he was the Labour candidate who worried Nicola Sturgeon most of all. Had she been in the audience, she’d have been more worried still.
Dozens of Labour staff members and Shadow Cabinet aides could be dismissed within hours of Jeremy Corbyn winning the party’s leadership, it has emerged.
The Independent understands that large numbers of Labour staff members are on contracts that expire the day after the new leader is elected. This means Mr Corbyn and his new shadow cabinet team will have a completely free hand at choosing who works for the party, with little or no legal obligation to existing staff.
Labour aides, who have worked for the party for the past five years, fear those around the new leader will use the opportunity to “purge” party HQ of those considered to be on the right, and replace them with people whose views are more in tune with the new leader. Other staff members intend to leave of their own volition and are understood to be already sending out their CVs in anticipation of a Corbyn victory.
What nonsense. How do the others pulling out stop Corbyn?
Brown was elected nem con in 2007....
That move would turn this circus into a non recoverable monumental catastrophic clusterfuck. One person one vote except if we don't like the person who we think is going to win. If that happens you don't get to vote If you vote for someone ékse?. Very democratic.
Labour are just completely insane and people are now pointing and laughing.
I hope they do it ........ The civil war that then ensures will be cataclysmic.
Dozens of Labour staff members and Shadow Cabinet aides could be dismissed within hours of Jeremy Corbyn winning the party’s leadership, it has emerged. The Independent understands that large numbers of Labour staff members are on contracts that expire the day after the new leader is elected. This means Mr Corbyn and his new shadow cabinet team will have a completely free hand at choosing who works for the party, with little or no legal obligation to existing staff. Labour aides, who have worked for the party for the past five years, fear those around the new leader will use the opportunity to “purge” party HQ of those considered to be on the right, and replace them with people whose views are more in tune with the new leader. Other staff members intend to leave of their own volition and are understood to be already sending out their CVs in anticipation of a Corbyn victory. http://ind.pn/1K0rmy9
Ah the 1970s. I remember it well when I can remember anything when my demntai eases :-)
Raging inflation 30% IRA bombings in Birmingham pubs. Frequent power cuts. Water shortages in 1975 (?) Strikes, more strikes, BL going bust More strikes Wage freezes. £1 a week + 4? % EU referendum Oil prices rising due to OPEC. Arab/Israeli wars Yom Kippur etc.
All those looking back on it fondly obvioulsy did not have to work and make money at the time And those who complain about "Austerity" don't know what the word means.. it was austere in the 1970s - food price rises meant at times you had to cut back to basics to survive. No I Phones/selfies /Facebook.
What nonsense. How do the others pulling out stop Corbyn?
Brown was elected nem con in 2007....
So Mandelson's secret plan to prevent a Corbyn victory was to have Corbyn elected unopposed and it's foiled already because the candidates entered the "You should quit. Why me? You should quit, not me." phase.
I was in Bristol 1977-80 (race riots), then London 1980-82 (all the buildings still smog black and depressing). Yemen 1982-85 was not such a cultural shock then as it would be now.
I was born at the end of the seventies so obviously don't remember it, but everyone I speak to who was around loved those times. Seems like doing that period down is mainly a right wing loony thing.
Have you ever considered the possibility that your acquaintances are a self selected bunch of stupid losers, what with you being one yourself?
I was in Bristol 1977-80 (race riots), then London 1980-82 (all the buildings still smog black and depressing). Yemen 1982-85 was not such a cultural shock then as it would be now.
Ferguson, MO had race riots this year.
Good heavens. I was in Bristol then too. Were you at the university?
What worries me is our modern day politicians,they frighten me.
The new lib dem leader,first thing he said after been elected,that Britain should take 60 thousand asylum refugees without thinking what that means here on our schools,housing and nhs,plus services being cut.
The new labour leader will be trying out do the lib Dems on numbers and then we have the modern Tories who are carrying on where new labour left off.
I've spent many years writing local history books. This, of course, involves many hours reading hundreds of local newspapers in libraries. Getting sidetracked, reading stories and looking at the photographs, I came to the conclusion that: 1. The 1950s looked like the 1940s 2. The 1960s were actually like our idea of the 50s 3. The 1970s were when most people experienced the 60s and so on.
Ah the 1970s. I remember it well when I can remember anything when my demntai eases :-)
Raging inflation 30% IRA bombings in Birmingham pubs. Frequent power cuts. Water shortages in 1975 (?) Strikes, more strikes, BL going bust More strikes Wage freezes. £1 a week + 4? % EU referendum Oil prices rising due to OPEC. Arab/Israeli wars Yom Kippur etc.
All those looking back on it fondly obvioulsy did not have to work and make money at the time And those who complain about "Austerity" don't know what the word means.. it was austere in the 1970s - food price rises meant at times you had to cut back to basics to survive. No I Phones/selfies /Facebook.
But we did have Lambs Navy Rum ads on every billboard...
SeanT - if you thought London was bleak in the early 80s you should have seen Birmingham. I moved there in 83 to go to university and it was an unbelievably miserable, dour place. Smokeless chimnies, disused factories, grimy toer blocks, filthy canals, ring roads, grey, heads down, get home, dream of somewhere else. It was another, much more depressing, country.
I was living in Birmingham in the Seventies. It had been the boom city of the sixties, with the highest incomes, particularly for skilled workers. That carried on into the Seventies, though my dad said the City Centre was a lot quieter after the pub bombings.
It was pretty grim in the eighties though after Mrs T destroyed British manufacturing. I worked in the Black Country for six months in 1989, and the City centre was pretty rough. Its fine now, indeed quite a fun and lively place to visit. Birmingham is a city that constantly reinvents itself by demolishing its city centre every couple of decades, and sometimes gets it right.
@PickardJE: Burnham speech tmrw: "Jeremy has brought energy to this race. I want to capture that and involve Jeremy and his team in rebuilding party."
He's right about the energy, but it's funny how you could read that as 'Jeremy has brought energy to this race...now let me steal it, because god knows I couldn't generate that energy myself'.
I was born at the end of the seventies so obviously don't remember it, but everyone I speak to who was around loved those times. Seems like doing that period down is mainly a right wing loony thing.
Have you ever considered the possibility that your acquaintances are a self selected bunch of stupid losers, what with you being one yourself?
I was in Bristol 1977-80 (race riots), then London 1980-82 (all the buildings still smog black and depressing). Yemen 1982-85 was not such a cultural shock then as it would be now.
The one *good* thing about London in the 70s and early 80s was that it was intensely atmospheric, in a way impossible to imagine now. From desolate Kings Cross to derelict Wapping to the bitter emptiness of Docklands. Poetically bleak. And great for writers looking to chill. Peter Ackroyd captured its eerie melancholy quite superbly in Hawksmoor.The opulence of central London and gritty vivacity of even the worst parts of outer London is much less helpful to writers seeking a moody location. Apart from that, yeah, London sucked from 1970-1984. Then Thatcher began the big turnaround. The population started growing again in 1985 IIRC, and has never looked back.
Stanley Kubrick used London's docklands as a stand in for bombed out Hue in Full Metal Jacket. Amazingly realistic. War ravaged Vietnamese countryside? Kent.
Not Docklands per se - Beckton Gas Works, just downstream
Nope, he used Docklands, per se. Specifically the Millennium Flour Mills.
Kubrick shot the film in England: in Cambridgeshire, on the Norfolk Broads, and at the former Millennium Mills, Beckton Gas Works, Newham (east London) and the Isle of Dogs.[23]
I was born at the end of the seventies so obviously don't remember it, but everyone I speak to who was around loved those times. Seems like doing that period down is mainly a right wing loony thing.
Have you ever considered the possibility that your acquaintances are a self selected bunch of stupid losers, what with you being one yourself?
I was in Bristol 1977-80 (race riots), then London 1980-82 (all the buildings still smog black and depressing). Yemen 1982-85 was not such a cultural shock then as it would be now.
The one *good* thing about London in the 70s and early 80s was that it was intensely atmospheric, in a way impossible to imagine now. From desolate Kings Cross to derelict Wapping to the bitter emptiness of Docklands. Poetically bleak. And great for writers looking to chill. Peter Ackroyd captured its eerie melancholy quite superbly in Hawksmoor.The opulence of central London and gritty vivacity of even the worst parts of outer London is much less helpful to writers seeking a moody location. Apart from that, yeah, London sucked from 1970-1984. Then Thatcher began the big turnaround. The population started growing again in 1985 IIRC, and has never looked back.
Stanley Kubrick used London's docklands as a stand in for bombed out Hue in Full Metal Jacket. Amazingly realistic. War ravaged Vietnamese countryside? Kent.
Not Docklands per se - Beckton Gas Works, just downstream
Nope, he used Docklands, per se. Specifically the Millennium Flour Mills.
Curious thing - I've lived in 5 countries, but I've never heard outside Britain anyone referring to a decade generically - the seventies were like this, the eighties were like that, etc. But everyone I know does it in Britain, and most people have definite preferences, as we're seeing on this thread. Are we changing more rapidly than other countries, so the distinction between decades is sharper?
Not quite true Nick. The Italians refer to the Seventies as " gli anni di piombo" - the years of lead, to reflect the terrorism which blighted that decade and into the 1980's.
What worries me is our modern day politicians,they frighten me.
The new lib dem leader,first thing he said after been elected,that Britain should take 60 thousand asylum refugees without thinking what that means here on our schools,housing and nhs,plus services being cut.
The new labour leader will be trying out do the lib Dems on numbers and then we have the modern Tories who are carrying on where new labour left off.
Like you ask,where does it end or how many ?
Politicians are used to accommodate the problems not confront them.
Curious thing - I've lived in 5 countries, but I've never heard outside Britain anyone referring to a decade generically - the seventies were like this, the eighties were like that, etc. But everyone I know does it in Britain, and most people have definite preferences, as we're seeing on this thread. Are we changing more rapidly than other countries, so the distinction between decades is sharper?
I've heard people from countries like Netherlands and Sweden talking about decades in that way but only in English which probably doesn't count.
People in the US definitely define history by the decades, hence the Naughties. That said, they also do it by generation - Greatest generation, baby boomers, generation x, Millennials, etc...
I was born at the end of the seventies so obviously don't remember it, but everyone I speak to who was around loved those times. Seems like doing that period down is mainly a right wing loony thing.
Have you ever considered the possibility that your acquaintances are a self selected bunch of stupid losers, what with you being one yourself?
I was in Bristol 1977-80 (race riots), then London 1980-82 (all the buildings still smog black and depressing). Yemen 1982-85 was not such a cultural shock then as it would be now.
The one *good* thing about London in the 70s and early 80s was that it was intensely atmospheric, in a way impossible to imagine now. From desolate Kings Cross to derelict Wapping to the bitter emptiness of Docklands. Poetically bleak. And great for writers looking to chill. Peter Ackroyd captured its eerie melancholy quite superbly in Hawksmoor.The opulence of central London and gritty vivacity of even the worst parts of outer London is much less helpful to writers seeking a moody location. Apart from that, yeah, London sucked from 1970-1984. Then Thatcher began the big turnaround. The population started growing again in 1985 IIRC, and has never looked back.
Stanley Kubrick used London's docklands as a stand in for bombed out Hue in Full Metal Jacket. Amazingly realistic. War ravaged Vietnamese countryside? Kent.
Not Docklands per se - Beckton Gas Works, just downstream
Nope, he used Docklands, per se. Specifically the Millennium Flour Mills.
Full Metal Jacket was released in 1987 though. That is what docklands looked like after 8 years of Thatcher.
It is a very good film!
Yup! The docks would have flourished under the control of the Communist Party of Great Britain, the Transport and General Workers Union and the National Dock Labour Board.
I've spent many years writing local history books. This, of course, involves many hours reading hundreds of local newspapers in libraries. Getting sidetracked, reading stories and looking at the photographs, I came to the conclusion that: 1. The 1950s looked like the 1940s 2. The 1960s were actually like our idea of the 50s 3. The 1970s were when most people experienced the 60s and so on.
Very perceptive. I think that you are on to something there.
Dan Hodges @DPJHodges: Interesting thing, aside from Mandelson line, is Kendall's camp confirmed to me their data shows Andy Burnham is best placed to stop Corbyn.
SeanT wondered the other night whether Corbyn was a bit thick. Well according to today's STs he got 2 Es at A Level, not that that is definitive, but still. His first wife also says he 'is not academic' and his agent says he leaves political books 'half read' http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/newsreview/features/article1593664.ece
Probably didn't meet then. My crowd were doing biochem, microbiology, medicine, dentistry, english and geography. Was in Wills for the first year, then lived out on a farm in Dundry (south on the A38), drove in each morning through Bedminster. Actually, from Google maps, I see that where I lived for the last two years is now the Woodspring Golf and Country club!! Then it was just a nice, barely renovated Jacobean farmhouse.
I was in Bristol 1977-80 (race riots), then London 1980-82 (all the buildings still smog black and depressing). Yemen 1982-85 was not such a cultural shock then as it would be now. The one *good* thing about London in the 70s and early 80s was that it was intensely atmospheric, in a way impossible to imagine now. From desolate Kings Cross to derelict Wapping to the bitter emptiness of Docklands. Poetically bleak. And great for writers looking to chill. Peter Ackroyd captured its eerie melancholy quite superbly in Hawksmoor.The opulence of central London and gritty vivacity of even the worst parts of outer London is much less helpful to writers seeking a moody location. Apart from that, yeah, London sucked from 1970-1984. Then Thatcher began the big turnaround. The population started growing again in 1985 IIRC, and has never looked back. Stanley Kubrick used London's docklands as a stand in for bombed out Hue in Full Metal Jacket. Amazingly realistic. War ravaged Vietnamese countryside? Kent.
Not Docklands per se - Beckton Gas Works, just downstream
Nope, he used Docklands, per se. Specifically the Millennium Flour Mills.
Full Metal Jacket was released in 1987 though. That is what docklands looked like after 8 years of Thatcher.
It is a very good film!
Wrong.
I joined my first ship there in ' 76 it was already desolate and empty then a handful of ocean tramp steamers. Liner services had all but gone due to economic realities, archaic dock working practices and militant strikes. The whole docks were empty compared to years previously of course it never recovered until the late 80's and containerisation. Even then the private ports Felixstowe and the likes took the lead. National dockers were still to militant so no, nowt to do with Thatcher On this occasion.
What nonsense. How do the others pulling out stop Corbyn?
Brown was elected nem con in 2007....
So Mandelson's secret plan to prevent a Corbyn victory was to have Corbyn elected unopposed and it's foiled already because the candidates entered the "You should quit. Why me? You should quit, not me." phase.
Maybe he's losing his touch.
Maybe after 25 or so years of Mandy's wiles Mephistopheles has come for the soul of Labour......
The one *good* thing about London in the 70s and early 80s was that it was intensely atmospheric, in a way impossible to imagine now. From desolate Kings Cross to derelict Wapping to the bitter emptiness of Docklands. Poetically bleak. And great for writers looking to chill. Peter Ackroyd captured its eerie melancholy quite superbly in Hawksmoor.The opulence of central London and gritty vivacity of even the worst parts of outer London is much less helpful to writers seeking a moody location. Apart from that, yeah, London sucked from 1970-1984. Then Thatcher began the big turnaround. The population started growing again in 1985 IIRC, and has never looked back.
Stanley Kubrick used London's docklands as a stand in for bombed out Hue in Full Metal Jacket. Amazingly realistic. War ravaged Vietnamese countryside? Kent.
Not Docklands per se - Beckton Gas Works, just downstream
Nope, he used Docklands, per se. Specifically the Millennium Flour Mills.
Full Metal Jacket was released in 1987 though. That is what docklands looked like after 8 years of Thatcher.
It is a very good film!
Yes a good film. Kubrick was a rare film genus after all. And I'm aware of the Gas Works etc as precise locations. Cambridgeshire stood in for Norfolk Virginia think
Docklands of course looked like that because of containerisation and the real docks had moved. To Tilbury? Certainly downstream and to places like Felixstow? So yes it was all due to the pioneering work of the Tories in adopting change. Very progressive.
Left to its own devices it would have made a very good Sweeney-themed family amusement park. It would have aided the preservation of Mark 2 Jags.
Gordon Brown has spoken. Will it change the dynamics of the Labour leadership campaign? No. It was too little, too late. Only one former leader has the ability to transform the Labour leadership race — and that is Ed Miliband.
The best things about the 70's (plenty of freedom for children to play, no political correctness, easy money to be made if you were a professional person, a right wing judiciary) aren't the sorts of things that would appeal to modern politicians.
A rightwing Church of England who are now left of the labour party,heard a vicar on radio this morning on about his support for the song of praise programme from Calais.
No wonder the church of England is dying on its ar*e.
Surely compassion, even if it may not resolve the causes of Calais, is what a church should be all about? I take a pretty cold, hard line on the migrant situation despite sympathy for those yearning for a better life (as principally they appear to be economic migrants not asylum seekers), but I'd probably feel worse about my stance if others weren't trying something, even if it doesn't help the underlying causes.
Absolutely. Songs of Praise being from Calais is pretty meaningless, but harmless (just the Beeb trying to wind the frothers up I reckon). But @DavidL's daughter is doing absolutely the right thing.
You can be absolutely firm on no right of entry (as I am) but still have compassion and help them out while they are in Calais.
It's pretty damning. And I'm convinced. He's a thicko. And it explains so much: how he can be personally nice (as many say) while sincerely holding such stupid, dangerous opinions.
Labour are about to elect not only the most bizarre leader in a century, but also the most imbecilic. Someone WORSE THAN ED MILIBAND.
Author, Author!
I thought you would find it interesting. Lack of success at school is not necessarily a bar to the top job or winning an election, as Churchill and John Major proved, but I don't think Corbyn compares to either
Gordon Brown has spoken. Will it change the dynamics of the Labour leadership campaign? No. It was too little, too late. Only one former leader has the ability to transform the Labour leadership race — and that is Ed Miliband.
Sure the docks had closed by 1980, but this was largely because of Tilbury docks and containerisation of goods. The London docks were simply too small for container ships. But the film was 1987 not Seventies, which was the point that I was making.
London Dockers were employed on a casual daily basis as late as 1965. No wonder they wanted a union!
Gordon Brown has spoken. Will it change the dynamics of the Labour leadership campaign? No. It was too little, too late. Only one former leader has the ability to transform the Labour leadership race — and that is Ed Miliband.
Cambridgeshire stood in for Norfolk Virginia think
Having a hard time envisaging that. I have a house on the Eastern Shore of Virginia, just north of Norfolk. Crossing the bridge from Hampton Roads to Willoughby Spit in Norfolk, you are often feted to the sight of more naval ships docked at any one time than in the entire British Navy. When a battle group comes in, they say the population of the town increases by 30,000 overnight - certainly the traffic gets much worse. Spectacular.
SO- my flirtation with Corbyn is sadly over- you'll be pleased to know. I read today that he'll make McDonnell SC.
Ahem.
Richard_Nabavi August 12
"Artist said:
Finding a shadow chancellor will be the hardest task for Corbyn. They need someone who is in tune with the leadership and talk about anti-austerity for a couple of years. It'd have to be an MP from Corbyn's wing of the party."
What nonsense. How do the others pulling out stop Corbyn?
Brown was elected nem con in 2007....
So Mandelson's secret plan to prevent a Corbyn victory was to have Corbyn elected unopposed and it's foiled already because the candidates entered the "You should quit. Why me? You should quit, not me." phase.
Maybe he's losing his touch.
Maybe after 25 or so years of Mandy's wiles Mephistopheles has come for the soul of Labour......
I was born at the end of the seventies so obviously don't remember it, but everyone I speak to who was around loved those times. Seems like doing that period down is mainly a right wing loony thing.
In the late 1970s my parents decided they wanted to build a house.
So they bought a site.
First thing they had to do was to clear away the rubble.
From the previous house that was there.
And been bombed. 35 year earlier.
A generation. A generation and the site still hadn't been cleared. In Kensington for goodness sake!
The nice Georgian house my Dad was born in, in 1928, has remained a bomb-site since 1940. https://goo.gl/maps/BghEa Liverpool has tons of such places...
This is the house my folks built. I was born while they lived in the Mewshouse at the end of the garden.
Gordon Brown has spoken. Will it change the dynamics of the Labour leadership campaign? No. It was too little, too late. Only one former leader has the ability to transform the Labour leadership race — and that is Ed Miliband.
Cambridgeshire stood in for Norfolk Virginia think
Having a hard time envisaging that. I have a house on the Eastern Shore of Virginia, just north of Norfolk. Crossing the bridge from Hampton Roads to Willoughby Spit in Norfolk, you are often feted to the sight of more naval ships docked at any one time than in the entire British Navy. When a battle group comes in, they say the population of the town increases by 30,000 overnight - certainly the traffic gets much worse. Spectacular.
It is a very convincing film, helped by having a proper drill instructor star in the first half. Up there with Paths of Glory and Dr Strangelove.
SO- my flirtation with Corbyn is sadly over- you'll be pleased to know. I read today that he'll make McDonnell SC.
Ahem.
Richard_Nabavi August 12
"Artist said:
Finding a shadow chancellor will be the hardest task for Corbyn. They need someone who is in tune with the leadership and talk about anti-austerity for a couple of years. It'd have to be an MP from Corbyn's wing of the party."
Cambridgeshire stood in for Norfolk Virginia think
Having a hard time envisaging that. I have a house on the Eastern Shore of Virginia, just north of Norfolk. Crossing the bridge from Hampton Roads to Willoughby Spit in Norfolk, you are often feted to the sight of more naval ships docked at any one time than in the entire British Navy. When a battle group comes in, they say the population of the town increases by 30,000 overnight - certainly the traffic gets much worse. Spectacular.
I think Cambridgshire stood in for the USMC training camp. There weren't any big naval backdrops in FMJ.
To those who think that Corbyn getting two EEs at A Level makes him imbecilic, I would point out that if you strip out grade inflation, then you'll find he got 4 A*s, a double First in Mathematics from Cambridge and a Fulbright scholarship.
Rewatching a Very British Coup for a Sunday night laugh at Socialism; never noticed the likeness between Harry Palmer's CofE and Douglas Carswell before...
Sure the docks had closed by 1980, but this was largely because of Tilbury docks and containerisation of goods. The London docks were simply too small for container ships. But the film was 1987 not Seventies, which was the point that I was making.
London Dockers were employed on a casual daily basis as late as 1965. No wonder they wanted a union!
No you specifically said this was a a result of Thatcher. You have now corrected yourself well done.
Tilbury wasn't as big as you think and was more at the tim. Antwerp and Rotterdam were far ahead. The main changes started in the 80's some expansion of a tilbury and then Felixstowe at ships moved from the 5000 TEu to the 8000 and 10000. All babies now compared to the vessels today.
Southampton and even Liverpool soon followed. Bristol tried, failed and turned itself into a massive car park for imports / exports. The difference for us was they were all private ports. We never got any trouble. We also got a full day's work with all gangs present instead of the tricks the national dockers always used to play. They brought about their own downfall.
SeanT - if you thought London was bleak in the early 80s you should have seen Birmingham. I moved there in 83 to go to university and it was an unbelievably miserable, dour place. Smokeless chimnies, disused factories, grimy toer blocks, filthy canals, ring roads, grey, heads down, get home, dream of somewhere else. It was another, much more depressing, country.
I was living in Birmingham in the Seventies. It had been the boom city of the sixties, with the highest incomes, particularly for skilled workers. That carried on into the Seventies, though my dad said the City Centre was a lot quieter after the pub bombings.
It was pretty grim in the eighties though after Mrs T destroyed British manufacturing. I worked in the Black Country for six months in 1989, and the City centre was pretty rough. Its fine now, indeed quite a fun and lively place to visit. Birmingham is a city that constantly reinvents itself by demolishing its city centre every couple of decades, and sometimes gets it right.
The West Midlands was the most successful part of the UK in the early 1960s in terms of GDP growth. Politicians allegedly discussed policies designed to reduce the size of the WM economy because they were so concerned that the rest of the country was falling behind by comparison.
Talking of movies and the 70's- arguably the 70's produced one of the most fertile artistic periods in the history of art, especially American cinema. A veritable smorgasbord of masterpieces from the Last Picture Show to Apocalypse Now; the Godfather to the Deer Hunter; Taxi Driver to Chinatown, Annie Hall to Harold and Maude, Klute to the Parallax View, Nashville and MASH to the Exorcist and the French Connection, Badlands to Days of Summer, All the Presidents Men, to Jaws and Close Encounters, Star Wars to American Graffiti..... I'm just brain storming here, but bloody hell, American artistic ingenuity went into overdrive to produce a lyrical period of sublimity that has never been even remotely reached. By contrast cinema went downhill after 1980.....
Not Docklands per se - Beckton Gas Works, just downstream
Nope, he used Docklands, per se. Specifically the Millennium Flour Mills.
Probably didn't meet then. My crowd were doing biochem, microbiology, medicine, dentistry, english and geography. Was in Wills for the first year, then lived out on a farm in Dundry (south on the A38), drove in each morning through Bedminster. Actually, from Google maps, I see that where I lived for the last two years is now the Woodspring Golf and Country club!! Then it was just a nice, barely renovated Jacobean farmhouse.
There were some medics in my gang. I went to lots of parties. I lived in the flats near Badock Hall then in the Polygon, which everyone confuses with the Paragon. My landlord was a committed Communist, with a beard, who worked at the Rolls Royce factory, and rented the floors of his rather lovely house to students. I teased him about being part of the rentier class but he took in good part and would invite me to proper roast lunches. I remember the winter of 1978/79, which was very cold - and miserable for personal reasons (my father died).
Sure the docks had closed by 1980, but this was largely because of Tilbury docks and containerisation of goods. The London docks were simply too small for container ships. But the film was 1987 not Seventies, which was the point that I was making.
London Dockers were employed on a casual daily basis as late as 1965. No wonder they wanted a union!
No you specifically said this was a a result of Thatcher. You have now corrected yourself well done.
Tilbury wasn't as big as you think and was more at the tim. Antwerp and Rotterdam were far ahead. The main changes started in the 80's some expansion of a tilbury and then Felixstowe at ships moved from the 5000 TEu to the 8000 and 10000. All babies now compared to the vessels today.
Southampton and even Liverpool soon followed. Bristol tried, failed and turned itself into a massive car park for imports / exports. The difference for us was they were all private ports. We never got any trouble. We also got a full day's work with all gangs present instead of the tricks the national dockers always used to play. They brought about their own downfall.
The Docklands Light Railway first opened in 1987. Tower Gateway and Island Gardens to Stratford via Poplar.
Back then, Canary Wharf was still being redeveloped, and the Tower wasn't complete until 1991, along with its DLR station.
This resulted in three stations (West India Quay, Canary Wharf and Heron Quays) all being very close to one another.
To those who think that Corbyn getting two EEs at A Level makes him imbecilic, I would point out that if you strip out grade inflation, then you'll find he got 4 A*s, a double First in Mathematics from Cambridge and a Fulbright scholarship.
I said "that was what the docklands looked like after 8 years of Thatcher" (not strictly true as the film was shot in 85-86). My point being that even in the mid to late eighties much of London was pretty grotty.
Much of the docklands were derelict until well after Thatcher. Indeed it was part of the justification to regenerate the area with the millenium dome and later on with the olympics.
Cambridgeshire stood in for Norfolk Virginia think
Having a hard time envisaging that. I have a house on the Eastern Shore of Virginia, just north of Norfolk. Crossing the bridge from Hampton Roads to Willoughby Spit in Norfolk, you are often feted to the sight of more naval ships docked at any one time than in the entire British Navy. When a battle group comes in, they say the population of the town increases by 30,000 overnight - certainly the traffic gets much worse. Spectacular.
I think Cambridgshire stood in for the USMC training camp. There weren't any big naval backdrops in FMJ.
Thats my understanding. Would it have been in Norfolk ? I think wherever the camp was meant to be it would have been very flat.
Rewatching a Very British Coup for a Sunday night laugh at Socialism; never noticed the likeness between Harry Palmer's CofE and Douglas Carswell before...
Harry Palmer? Is there an Ipcress file in A Very British Coup?
Talking of movies and the 70's- arguably the 70's produced one of the most fertile artistic periods in the history of art, especially American cinema. A veritable smorgasbord of masterpieces from the Last Picture Show to Apocalypse Now; the Godfather to the Deer Hunter; Taxi Driver to Chinatown, Annie Hall to Harold and Maude, Klute to the Parallax View, Nashville and MASH to the Exorcist and the French Connection, Badlands to Days of Summer, All the Presidents Men, to Jaws and Close Encounters, Star Wars to American Graffiti..... I'm just brain storming here, but bloody hell, American artistic ingenuity went into overdrive to produce a lyrical period of sublimity that has never been even remotely reached. By contrast cinema went downhill after 1980.....
I agree. The decade was filled with the sorts of cultural change that generated so many new ideas, coupled with the decline of censorship that permitted the ideas free expression.
I find that as a general principle the artistic and cultural quality of a film is inversely proportional to the amount of CGI and special effects. Car chases are another boring cliche too, the last good one was in the Blues Brothers.
Talking of movies and the 70's- arguably the 70's produced one of the most fertile artistic periods in the history of art, especially American cinema. A veritable smorgasbord of masterpieces from the Last Picture Show to Apocalypse Now; the Godfather to the Deer Hunter; Taxi Driver to Chinatown, Annie Hall to Harold and Maude, Klute to the Parallax View, Nashville and MASH to the Exorcist and the French Connection, Badlands to Days of Summer, All the Presidents Men, to Jaws and Close Encounters, Star Wars to American Graffiti..... I'm just brain storming here, but bloody hell, American artistic ingenuity went into overdrive to produce a lyrical period of sublimity that has never been even remotely reached. By contrast cinema went downhill after 1980.....
Sure the docks had closed by 1980, but this was largely because of Tilbury docks and containerisation of goods. The London docks were simply too small for container ships. But the film was 1987 not Seventies, which was the point that I was making.
London Dockers were employed on a casual daily basis as late as 1965. No wonder they wanted a union!
No you specifically said this was a a result of Thatcher. You have now corrected yourself well done.
Tilbury wasn't as big as you think and was more at the tim. Antwerp and Rotterdam were far ahead. The main changes started in the 80's some expansion of a tilbury and then Felixstowe at ships moved from the 5000 TEu to the 8000 and 10000. All babies now compared to the vessels today.
Southampton and even Liverpool soon followed. Bristol tried, failed and turned itself into a massive car park for imports / exports. The difference for us was they were all private ports. We never got any trouble. We also got a full day's work with all gangs present instead of the tricks the national dockers always used to play. They brought about their own downfall.
The Docklands Light Railway first opened in 1987. Tower Gateway and Island Gardens to Stratford via Poplar.
Back then, Canary Wharf was still being redeveloped, and the Tower wasn't complete until 1991, along with its DLR station.
This resulted in three stations (West India Quay, Canary Wharf and Heron Quays) all being very close to one another.
That explains it. I sometimes go to city airport. I am still trying to get the hang of stations on three different levels. Oddly I don't have a problem with Antwerp central. If you have not been you must. It's iconic and magnificent and on multiple levels. I suspect you have been though....
To those who think that Corbyn getting two EEs at A Level makes him imbecilic, I would point out that if you strip out grade inflation, then you'll find he got 4 A*s, a double First in Mathematics from Cambridge and a Fulbright scholarship.
Fair point.
Being academic doesn't necessarily make you intelligent nor does it mean you have that all too rare quality: common-sense. And it says nothing about your judgment.
There are lots of well educated people - and uneducated ones too, of course - who merely adopt opinions rather than think things through for themselves. Corbyn is one of those people who, once you know their views on one topic, you can guess their views on a whole range of other topics. There is no surprise, no evidence of somebody working something out for themselves. The opinions are acquired off the shelf, barely evolve and have a scant relationship with facts. Plenty of people like that on the right too.
Groupthink and the received opinion are a curse of our times.
To those who think that Corbyn getting two EEs at A Level makes him imbecilic, I would point out that if you strip out grade inflation, then you'll find he got 4 A*s, a double First in Mathematics from Cambridge and a Fulbright scholarship.
Fair point.
Not quite as he scraped into North London Poly, not Oxbridge, and did not even finish his course!
Comments
Yes I suppose it is...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/11747106/Violent-clashes-break-out-in-Rome-as-Italian-opposition-to-migrants-increases.html
''Violent clashes break out in Rome as Italian opposition to migrants increases''
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/26/italy-migrant-crisis-rome-protests-tensions-casale-san-nicola
When I was a tiddler, before 1940, the Beano and Dandy were tuppence a pop. Farthings were de rigueur change and kept. We had solid silver threepenny bits in circulation. The guinea was what the rich spent, and florins the poor and middle class. Pound notes were mainly blue with a bit of pink thrown in and £5 pound notes were like white paper tablecloths.
Ask JackW, he may also remember travelling on a bus for a ha'penny.
Brown was elected nem con in 2007....
Labour are just completely insane and people are now pointing and laughing.
I hope they do it ........ The civil war that then ensures will be cataclysmic.
Raging inflation 30%
IRA bombings in Birmingham pubs.
Frequent power cuts.
Water shortages in 1975 (?)
Strikes, more strikes,
BL going bust
More strikes
Wage freezes. £1 a week + 4? %
EU referendum
Oil prices rising due to OPEC.
Arab/Israeli wars Yom Kippur etc.
All those looking back on it fondly obvioulsy did not have to work and make money at the time
And those who complain about "Austerity" don't know what the word means.. it was austere in the 1970s - food price rises meant at times you had to cut back to basics to survive. No I Phones/selfies /Facebook.
Who do you think would make the best Labour leader?
Jeremy Corbyn - 100%
Andy Burnham - 0%
Yvette Cooper - 0%
Liz Kendall - 0%
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/andy-burnham-offer-jeremy-corbyn-6264557
What worries me is our modern day politicians,they frighten me.
The new lib dem leader,first thing he said after been elected,that Britain should take 60 thousand asylum refugees without thinking what that means here on our schools,housing and nhs,plus services being cut.
The new labour leader will be trying out do the lib Dems on numbers and then we have the modern Tories who are carrying on where new labour left off.
Like you ask,where does it end or how many ?
1. The 1950s looked like the 1940s
2. The 1960s were actually like our idea of the 50s
3. The 1970s were when most people experienced the 60s
and so on.
http://www.samiraahmed.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/lambs1.jpg
Phoaar!
It was pretty grim in the eighties though after Mrs T destroyed British manufacturing. I worked in the Black Country for six months in 1989, and the City centre was pretty rough. Its fine now, indeed quite a fun and lively place to visit. Birmingham is a city that constantly reinvents itself by demolishing its city centre every couple of decades, and sometimes gets it right.
Kubrick shot the film in England: in Cambridgeshire, on the Norfolk Broads, and at the former Millennium Mills, Beckton Gas Works, Newham (east London) and the Isle of Dogs.[23]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_Metal_Jacket
It is a very good film!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11805916/Labour-MPs-are-now-preparing-to-go-underground-to-resist-the-Corbyn-regime.html
Interesting thing, aside from Mandelson line, is Kendall's camp confirmed to me their data shows Andy Burnham is best placed to stop Corbyn.
Lord help us!
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/newsreview/features/article1593664.ece
It also emerged that Liz Kendall urged Yvette Cooper to stand down because Andy Burnham is the only candidate who can win - but Miss Cooper refused
http://tinyurl.com/OsbornIsCaesarCorbynisHannibal
I was in Bristol 1977-80 (race riots), then London 1980-82 (all the buildings still smog black and depressing). Yemen 1982-85 was not such a cultural shock then as it would be now.
The one *good* thing about London in the 70s and early 80s was that it was intensely atmospheric, in a way impossible to imagine now. From desolate Kings Cross to derelict Wapping to the bitter emptiness of Docklands. Poetically bleak. And great for writers looking to chill.
Peter Ackroyd captured its eerie melancholy quite superbly in Hawksmoor.The opulence of central London and gritty vivacity of even the worst parts of outer London is much less helpful to writers seeking a moody location.
Apart from that, yeah, London sucked from 1970-1984. Then Thatcher began the big turnaround. The population started growing again in 1985 IIRC, and has never looked back.
Stanley Kubrick used London's docklands as a stand in for bombed out Hue in Full Metal Jacket. Amazingly realistic.
War ravaged Vietnamese countryside? Kent.
Not Docklands per se - Beckton Gas Works, just downstream
Nope, he used Docklands, per se. Specifically the Millennium Flour Mills.
http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/aug/09/millennium-mills-docklands-london-developers-catch-up-last-relic
Full Metal Jacket was released in 1987 though. That is what docklands looked like after 8 years of Thatcher.
It is a very good film!
Wrong.
I joined my first ship there in ' 76 it was already desolate and empty then a handful of ocean tramp steamers. Liner services had all but gone due to economic realities, archaic dock working practices and militant strikes. The whole docks were empty compared to years previously of course it never recovered until the late 80's and containerisation. Even then the private ports Felixstowe and the likes took the lead. National dockers were still to militant so no, nowt to do with Thatcher On this occasion.
Mandelson thought he was pissing on the grave of 'Old Labour'... "they underestimated me"
BOOT'S ON THE OTHER FOOT NOW MANDY
BOOT'S ON THE OTHER FOOT.
Con 40%
Lab 29%
UKIP 13%
LD 8%
Green 4%
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/
http://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-sunday-telegraph/20150816/281676843645188/TextView
Docklands of course looked like that because of containerisation and the real docks had moved. To Tilbury? Certainly downstream and to places like Felixstow? So yes it was all due to the pioneering work of the Tories in adopting change. Very progressive.
Left to its own devices it would have made a very good Sweeney-themed family amusement park. It would have aided the preservation of Mark 2 Jags.
You can be absolutely firm on no right of entry (as I am) but still have compassion and help them out while they are in Calais.
Just when you think it can't possibly get any better, it does.
Sure the docks had closed by 1980, but this was largely because of Tilbury docks and containerisation of goods. The London docks were simply too small for container ships. But the film was 1987 not Seventies, which was the point that I was making.
London Dockers were employed on a casual daily basis as late as 1965. No wonder they wanted a union!
No-one cares what Miliband, E. has to say on any subject. If he hadn't have quit the scene so quickly, this race would not have developed in this way.
Labour needs to never hear from a Miliband ever again.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zXp0xUk7qI
Richard_Nabavi August 12
"Artist said:
Finding a shadow chancellor will be the hardest task for Corbyn. They need someone who is in tune with the leadership and talk about anti-austerity for a couple of years. It'd have to be an MP from Corbyn's wing of the party."
John McDonnell
politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/749787/#Comment_749787
That's PB Tories for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZHQIC3eBvw
That paragraph climaxed in perfect bathos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52iW3lcpK5M
Especially if Jezza support starts getting cold feet
I am having a bit of a saver as my Jezza to win is looking too exposed.
Currently green on jezza and cooper slightly red on burnham very red on kendall
Tilbury wasn't as big as you think and was more at the tim. Antwerp and Rotterdam were far ahead. The main changes started in the 80's some expansion of a tilbury and then Felixstowe at ships moved from the 5000 TEu to the 8000 and 10000. All babies now compared to the vessels today.
Southampton and even Liverpool soon followed. Bristol tried, failed and turned itself into a massive car park for imports / exports. The difference for us was they were all private ports. We never got any trouble. We also got a full day's work with all gangs present instead of the tricks the national dockers always used to play. They brought about their own downfall.
Strangely calm about it...
Not Docklands per se - Beckton Gas Works, just downstream
Nope, he used Docklands, per se. Specifically the Millennium Flour Mills.
http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/aug/09/millennium-mills-docklands-london-developers-catch-up-last-relic
Full Metal Jacket was released in 1987 though. That is what docklands looked like after 8 years of Thatcher.
It is a very good film!
What, just before she turned it into Canary Wharf?
Idiot.
Many happy returns!
My plan is to get travelling. I have the means to basically spend the rest of my life as a peripatetic.
And experience more sex, of course...
Back then, Canary Wharf was still being redeveloped, and the Tower wasn't complete until 1991, along with its DLR station.
This resulted in three stations (West India Quay, Canary Wharf and Heron Quays) all being very close to one another.
I said "that was what the docklands looked like after 8 years of Thatcher" (not strictly true as the film was shot in 85-86). My point being that even in the mid to late eighties much of London was pretty grotty.
Much of the docklands were derelict until well after Thatcher. Indeed it was part of the justification to regenerate the area with the millenium dome and later on with the olympics.
Is there an Ipcress file in A Very British Coup?
I agree. The decade was filled with the sorts of cultural change that generated so many new ideas, coupled with the decline of censorship that permitted the ideas free expression.
I find that as a general principle the artistic and cultural quality of a film is inversely proportional to the amount of CGI and special effects. Car chases are another boring cliche too, the last good one was in the Blues Brothers.
You forgot the B movies of the 70's:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEsXMlKaXHQ
At 60 you run out of excuses...
There are lots of well educated people - and uneducated ones too, of course - who merely adopt opinions rather than think things through for themselves. Corbyn is one of those people who, once you know their views on one topic, you can guess their views on a whole range of other topics. There is no surprise, no evidence of somebody working something out for themselves. The opinions are acquired off the shelf, barely evolve and have a scant relationship with facts. Plenty of people like that on the right too.
Groupthink and the received opinion are a curse of our times.