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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Earthquake in San Francisco...

    4.2 apparently. Shouldn't be too serious, let's hope it's not a foreshock to a bigger one.

    Oh, and happy birthday Rod!
    Looks like it was on the Hayward fault, which is 'due' for a big one. Hopefully it's not today.
    Stay safe Rob!
    Will do!
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    JPJ2JPJ2 Posts: 378
    An excellent commentary on Scotland from Antifrank as usual. I would take issue with only a couple of points.

    Antifrank writes:

    "If the manifesto for the Scottish Parliament does not include a pledge for a referendum, there will be uproar among the #45"

    If there was no reference at all to the possibility of a referendum, then there might well be uproar, but if the message is essentially we will only hold another referendum when we have grounds which will lead us to expect to win, most will be satisfied.

    He also writes:

    "Even before the Holyrood elections next year, David Cameron has indicated that he is opposed to a second referendum taking place. Without the clearest of mandates for the SNP to call for one, he will almost certainly feel that he can hold the line against one."

    If polling shows that the majority of people in Scotland want another referendum, and if circumstances outlined in an SNP manifesto to justify a referendum are met, opposition by Cameron is likely to prove fatal to the unionist cause-the longer the delay, the worse for unionism.
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    John_M said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    isam said:

    3% to 13% in five years... amazing what a dismal campaign can do

    25 MPs - 5 MPs forecasts, to only actual 1 MP = plus losing a seat, plus your party leader failing to win a seat for the nth time. That's a dismal campaign. Unfortunately in FPTP, vote-share, unless accompanied by considerable seat total, doesn't mean much.
    I think you will find dropping from 57 seats to 8 is the correct definition of a dismal election ;)
    Well I'd agree there. Both UKIP and Labour had dismal elections.
    Ms Apocalypse, I would like to apologise for my unpleasant remarks the other day; I hope you can forgive me - I should know better than to shoot from the hip and I shall endeavour to rise above my base self in future.
    Oh, thank you :) Tbh, I can't even remember what you said, so it must have been not that bad!
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,920

    Disraeli said:

    I fully agree with Nicola Sturgeon's comment:
    “if in Scotland we faced exit from the EU, effectively against our will – something which the polling suggests could happen – it would not be at all surprising if that caused a swell of demand for a further independence referendum.”

    I understand her anguish that Scotland may find itself outvoted by the other nations of the Union, and having decisions foisted on them for which Scotland has not voted.

    Well she'd better get used to it - if Scotland does indeed join the EU post independence then she'll find this sort of situation cropping up quite a lot.

    Isn't it strange that the SNP which is so attached to the EU has a horror for the Euro and a great affection for the Bank of England's pound sterling. Maybe they're just full of it.
    The SNP wants independence from the UK. They are in favour of anything which furthers that goal.

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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Earthquake in San Francisco...

    4.2 apparently. Shouldn't be too serious, let's hope it's not a foreshock to a bigger one.

    Oh, and happy birthday Rod!
    Looks like it was on the Hayward fault, which is 'due' for a big one. Hopefully it's not today.
    The area due for a really big one is the Pacific Northwest:

    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one

    The newcomers took the land they encountered at face value, and at face value it was a find: vast, cheap, temperate, fertile, and, to all appearances, remarkably benign.

    A century and a half elapsed before anyone had any inkling that the Pacific Northwest was not a quiet place but a place in a long period of quiet.
    So I'm not moving to Seattle anytime soon!
    I found it an absolutely staggering article, and it would make me think about moving away from the area if I lived there. Even if it's "only" a 5/1 shot to occur in my lifetime.
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    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Pulpstar said:

    Cyclefree ..The reports say it is a Hindu shrine..

    I think Hinduism is to Buddhism as Islam is to Judaism/Christianity - common origins.
    I don't think that's right. For a start, Hinduism is older than Buddhism, while Islam is younger than Judaism and Christianity. Also, Buddhism largely rejects Hindu beliefs, while Islam absorbs much of Judeo-Christian thought (although sadly failed to absorb Jesus' messages of pacifism, forgiveness and secularism).
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    JPJ2 said:

    if the message is essentially we will only hold another referendum when we have grounds which will lead us to expect to win, most will be satisfied.

    That sounds reasonable. Unfortunately, many of the zoomers are not reasonable, and believe they should "expect to win" right now.
    JPJ2 said:

    If polling shows that the majority of people in Scotland want another referendum

    Polling. Seriously?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,902
    JEO said:

    and secularism).

    Are you sure about that one !
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,201
    edited August 2015
    JEO said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cyclefree ..The reports say it is a Hindu shrine..

    I think Hinduism is to Buddhism as Islam is to Judaism/Christianity - common origins.
    I don't think that's right. For a start, Hinduism is older than Buddhism, while Islam is younger than Judaism and Christianity. Also, Buddhism largely rejects Hindu beliefs, while Islam absorbs much of Judeo-Christian thought (although sadly failed to absorb Jesus' messages of pacifism, forgiveness and secularism).
    Most Hindus consider the Buddha (Gautama Siddhartha) to be the 9th and most recent incarnation of their God Vishnu. However, despite Emperor Ashoka ruling what was a large Buddhist Empire in India in the 3rd century BCE, Hinduism had a revival after his death, and nowadays almost all Buddhists live outside India.
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited August 2015
    Great piece from an acquaintance of mine:

    Celtic = Tories
    Rangers = Labour

    https://middleagedcontrarian.wordpress.com/2015/08/05/rangers-fc-the-labour-party-and-learning-to-love-your-enemies/

    "I was quite enjoying Corbyn’s rise to begin with. But as it has become increasingly clear that the unimaginably stupid bastards are probably actually going to vote for him, it has all become a little sad. Like all great rivals, the Tories and Labour need each other."
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811
    Charles said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Slightly O/T

    I saw a disturbing piece on Countryfile yesterday. Apparently, there's a bill going through Holyrood to reduce the ownership rights of Scottish landowners - opening the doors for a land grab a la Zimbabwe.

    My friend who has a small island just off Harris (nothing massive - he bought it for about £2m a few years ago after he sold his company) is spitting about it. There's a real risk that he could lose his holiday home, despite the fact that he has invested in it, and created employment for a dozen people there.
    Rubbish, it is only aimed at selfish rich tw**s that treat locals etc like dirt. Typical greedy Tory gits, 432 rats own more than half of Scotland, it is a scandal. If you chum is in any way decent he has nothing to fear, if he is your usual Tory **se then the sooner he is ousted the better.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    No coup against Corbyn...
    this requires a candidate who is willing to stand up and challenge Corbyn. This is how the party failed to remove Gordon Brown in 2007, when James Purnell resigned from the Cabinet but no candidate was willing to put their head above the parapet. The same issue was encountered in 2011, when Peter Mandelson and Alistair Campbell reportedly tried to remove Ed Miliband but failed to persuade Alan Johnson to challenge him. ‘If the PLP didn’t have the cojones to challenge Miliband when he was leader, there is no chance they will take on Corbyn and the whole of the left,’ says a Labour party source.
    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/08/could-jeremy-corbyn-be-removed-as-labour-leader/
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,902

    JEO said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cyclefree ..The reports say it is a Hindu shrine..

    I think Hinduism is to Buddhism as Islam is to Judaism/Christianity - common origins.
    I don't think that's right. For a start, Hinduism is older than Buddhism, while Islam is younger than Judaism and Christianity. Also, Buddhism largely rejects Hindu beliefs, while Islam absorbs much of Judeo-Christian thought (although sadly failed to absorb Jesus' messages of pacifism, forgiveness and secularism).
    Most Hindus consider the Buddha (Gautama Siddhartha) to be the 9th and most recent incarnation of their God Vishnu. However, despite Emperor Ashoka ruling what was a large Buddhist Empire in India in the 3rd century BCE, Hinduism had a revival after his death, and nowadays almost all Buddhists live outside India.
    I got the analogy the wrong way round, but errm yes - what Sunil said :)

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Dr. Prasannan, please don't diminish the esteem in which I hold you by indulging the revisionist politically correct nonsense of CE/BCE.
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    JEO said:

    @JEO I find social conservatives tend to be extremely judgemental, and you didn't come across that way.

    I'm a social conservative, I'm just not mad at anyone about it. :)

    One of the things I'm socially conservative about is old fashioned politeness and good manners. I would be a hypocrite if I believed that and did not do my best to be respectful to those who disagree with me.

    I feel like opposing marriage based on its abuse is like opposing the existence of police force because of police abuse. The right approach is to address the abuse, rather than the institution. I don't like how many people think of marriage as "just a bit of paper" when it is nothing of the sort. The very act of being prepared to publicly commit your lives and everything you have to each other I think achieves a major psychological effect. There's a tremendous sense of relationship stability and happy contentment that comes from locking a relationship in legally.

    In terms of smacking, I am instinctively opposed as I have never needed to do it with my children. However, I am aware that the more unruly teens tend to have far less respect for authority figures these days than they used to, and this correlates quite closely to the decline in smacking. But as I lean against, I'd like to see if we could repair this with bringing back non-physical discipline to schools on a more consistent basis first.
    On manners and politeness I also agree. Though I never saw that as socially conservative, but something that most people just naturally do.

    I wouldn't say I personally oppose marriage - but it's just something I wouldn't go into. If others feel that it's the right choice for them, then they should go for it.

    On relationship stability and contentment, hmmm I don't know. I think many go into marriage unprepared that not everyday will be wonderful and excitement, and sometimes life's responsibilities will make things dull and mundane. It's like they fall in love with the idea of love and marriage, but are unwilling to put the effort into it to maintain a relationship. I also think there are an awful lot of people incapable of committing monogamously to a marriage; and are looking for the next best thing - which regardless of whether there is a divorce or not, damages families.

    On teens, from what I've read - and heard - every older generation thinks of teens as more unruly and bad than when they were young.
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    Scott_P said:

    No coup against Corbyn...

    this requires a candidate who is willing to stand up and challenge Corbyn. This is how the party failed to remove Gordon Brown in 2007, when James Purnell resigned from the Cabinet but no candidate was willing to put their head above the parapet. The same issue was encountered in 2011, when Peter Mandelson and Alistair Campbell reportedly tried to remove Ed Miliband but failed to persuade Alan Johnson to challenge him. ‘If the PLP didn’t have the cojones to challenge Miliband when he was leader, there is no chance they will take on Corbyn and the whole of the left,’ says a Labour party source.
    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/08/could-jeremy-corbyn-be-removed-as-labour-leader/

    Yeah, but there wasn't really a will to challenge Miliband. There is in regard to Corbyn.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    Dr. Prasannan, please don't diminish the esteem in which I hold you by indulging the revisionist politically correct nonsense of CE/BCE.

    Quite right, the Calendar (New Style) Act 1750 was already a bitter pill for our Morris Dancer to swallow. No need to add insult to injury ;)
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited August 2015
    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Slightly O/T

    I saw a disturbing piece on Countryfile yesterday. Apparently, there's a bill going through Holyrood to reduce the ownership rights of Scottish landowners - opening the doors for a land grab a la Zimbabwe.

    My friend who has a small island just off Harris (nothing massive - he bought it for about £2m a few years ago after he sold his company) is spitting about it. There's a real risk that he could lose his holiday home, despite the fact that he has invested in it, and created employment for a dozen people there.
    Rubbish, it is only aimed at selfish rich tw**s that treat locals etc like dirt. Typical greedy Tory gits, 432 rats own more than half of Scotland, it is a scandal. If you chum is in any way decent he has nothing to fear, if he is your usual Tory **se then the sooner he is ousted the better.
    He's a Kiwi; his wife's an Iraqi-Cannuk who's been holidaying in Harris for 35 years.

    But he's still worried. He may have "nothing to fear" but under the rules as drafted the island he loves could be taken away from him.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,153
    Pulpstar said:

    JEO said:

    and secularism).

    Are you sure about that one !
    The "render unto God what is God's and to Caesar what is Caesar's" saying is what he is referring to.

    That - and the fact that for the first few centuries Christianity was not a state religion - is what has made it easier (though in reality not easy at all given how hard the Christian authorities sought to hold onto political power) for there to develop a Christian space within a wider secular world. Islam has, I think, always struggled with this.
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    Just seen that David Miliband is endorsing Liz Kendall. I predict CIF already....

    'David Miliband is a Tory'
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    Dr. Prasannan, please don't diminish the esteem in which I hold you by indulging the revisionist politically correct nonsense of CE/BCE.

    Mr Dancer!

    I use the abbreviations also during my travels around the Great British rail network :).

    Before Camera Era, and Camera Era.

    For instance, on a biology A-Level field trip to Arran in 1993, we went from London to Glasgow via Edinburgh, thence to Ardrossan Harbour, and then returned from Glasgow via the West Coast Route to London. But back then I didn't have a camera, so I have no photographic record of that trip, to my eternal shame. Hence that was a BCE trip.

    But again for example, in 2012, I had an interview at St Andrews, and re-visited Edinburgh station, and changed there for Leuchars. I had a camera then, and was able to take plenty of pix. Hence that was a CE trip.

    I consider the BCE/CE boundary to be Autumn 2007, when a) I finally invested in a decent digital camera, and b) actually decided to record a "photo-journal" of my railway journeys and destinations.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811
    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Slightly O/T

    I saw a disturbing piece on Countryfile yesterday. Apparently, there's a bill going through Holyrood to reduce the ownership rights of Scottish landowners - opening the doors for a land grab a la Zimbabwe.

    My friend who has a small island just off Harris (nothing massive - he bought it for about £2m a few years ago after he sold his company) is spitting about it. There's a real risk that he could lose his holiday home, despite the fact that he has invested in it, and created employment for a dozen people there.
    Rubbish, it is only aimed at selfish rich tw**s that treat locals etc like dirt. Typical greedy Tory gits, 432 rats own more than half of Scotland, it is a scandal. If you chum is in any way decent he has nothing to fear, if he is your usual Tory **se then the sooner he is ousted the better.
    He's a Kiwi; his wife's an Iraqi-Cannuk who's been holidaying in Harris for 35 years.

    But he's still worried. He may have "nothing to fear" but under the rules as drafted the island he loves could be taken away from him.
    The rules will be very sensible and any good land owner will have nothing to fear. It is the small minority of bad ones that will be affected as they should be.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Watching Gordon Brown’s walking tour of Labour Party history, I had an epiphany. I suddenly understood why so many Labour activists are backing Jeremy Corbyn. Imagine you’ve spent the last 30 years hearing speeches like Brown's. Thirty years of being told that you have to compromise to win. So you do compromise – and what happens? Iraq and the Credit Crunch under Blair and Brown, and the rest of the time you lose. Wouldn’t you reasonably, rationally conclude that the compromisers are wrong? That you may as well take a punt on a candidate who articulates socialism honestly?
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11805191/Jeremy-Corbyns-campaign-is-a-rational-response-to-30-years-of-compromise-and-failure.html
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Slightly O/T

    I saw a disturbing piece on Countryfile yesterday. Apparently, there's a bill going through Holyrood to reduce the ownership rights of Scottish landowners - opening the doors for a land grab a la Zimbabwe.

    My friend who has a small island just off Harris (nothing massive - he bought it for about £2m a few years ago after he sold his company) is spitting about it. There's a real risk that he could lose his holiday home, despite the fact that he has invested in it, and created employment for a dozen people there.
    Rubbish, it is only aimed at selfish rich tw**s that treat locals etc like dirt. Typical greedy Tory gits, 432 rats own more than half of Scotland, it is a scandal. If you chum is in any way decent he has nothing to fear, if he is your usual Tory **se then the sooner he is ousted the better.
    He's a Kiwi; his wife's an Iraqi-Cannuk who's been holidaying in Harris for 35 years.

    But he's still worried. He may have "nothing to fear" but under the rules as drafted the island he loves could be taken away from him.
    The rules will be very sensible and any good land owner will have nothing to fear. It is the small minority of bad ones that will be affected as they should be.
    How would the proposals affect them?
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    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    edited August 2015
    Cyclefree said:

    Pulpstar said:

    JEO said:

    and secularism).

    Are you sure about that one !
    The "render unto God what is God's and to Caesar what is Caesar's" saying is what he is referring to.

    That - and the fact that for the first few centuries Christianity was not a state religion - is what has made it easier (though in reality not easy at all given how hard the Christian authorities sought to hold onto political power) for there to develop a Christian space within a wider secular world. Islam has, I think, always struggled with this.
    Not just that one quote, but the whole nature of Jesus refusing to fulfil the political role that Jews had imagined of their messiah. He also did not challenge Roman power to order his crucifixion, nor did he order any political laws, as Islam does.
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    IcarusIcarus Posts: 896

    Scott_P said:

    No coup against Corbyn...

    this requires a candidate who is willing to stand up and challenge Corbyn. This is how the party failed to remove Gordon Brown in 2007, when James Purnell resigned from the Cabinet but no candidate was willing to put their head above the parapet. The same issue was encountered in 2011, when Peter Mandelson and Alistair Campbell reportedly tried to remove Ed Miliband but failed to persuade Alan Johnson to challenge him. ‘If the PLP didn’t have the cojones to challenge Miliband when he was leader, there is no chance they will take on Corbyn and the whole of the left,’ says a Labour party source.
    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/08/could-jeremy-corbyn-be-removed-as-labour-leader/
    Yeah, but there wasn't really a will to challenge Miliband. There is in regard to Corbyn.

    It isn't just a will to challenge that is needed - there just isn't anyone in the PLP who looks like or sounds like a leader.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @DPJHodges: Straw in the wind? Understand Corbyn camp little alarmed by canvassing figures from Unite affiliates. Not the big lead they were expecting.
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    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    With SLAB about to erupt into open warfare with Glasgow SLAB led by Neil Findlay doing battle with Edinburgh SLAB led by Kezia Dugdale, it was therefore no surprise to see that Ruth Davidson has some problems internally as well:

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13599934.Tory_leader_Davidson_loses_chief_of_staff_as_election_looms/

    I fear Ruth D's Edinburgh move could yet be her undoing, unless she can get 1st place on the Tories Lothian List, she won't be guaranteed a seat. As far as I can tell the 2 existing Lothian List Tory MSPs are standing again. It would be interesting to know how List positions are determined - Lothian Tory membership vote (unlikely) or darkened committee room in Scottish Tory HQ with Ruth chairing the meeting.
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    Comrades!

    Am I the only "PB Tory 4 Corbyn" who actually went and voted Labour at GE2015? :)
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,153
    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Slightly O/T

    I saw a disturbing piece on Countryfile yesterday. Apparently, there's a bill going through Holyrood to reduce the ownership rights of Scottish landowners - opening the doors for a land grab a la Zimbabwe.

    My friend who has a small island just off Harris (nothing massive - he bought it for about £2m a few years ago after he sold his company) is spitting about it. There's a real risk that he could lose his holiday home, despite the fact that he has invested in it, and created employment for a dozen people there.
    Rubbish, it is only aimed at selfish rich tw**s that treat locals etc like dirt. Typical greedy Tory gits, 432 rats own more than half of Scotland, it is a scandal. If you chum is in any way decent he has nothing to fear, if he is your usual Tory **se then the sooner he is ousted the better.
    He's a Kiwi; his wife's an Iraqi-Cannuk who's been holidaying in Harris for 35 years.

    But he's still worried. He may have "nothing to fear" but under the rules as drafted the island he loves could be taken away from him.
    The rules will be very sensible and any good land owner will have nothing to fear. It is the small minority of bad ones that will be affected as they should be.
    What does this new law say? I've only dimly heard about it.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,201
    edited August 2015

    Just seen that David Miliband is endorsing Liz Kendall. I predict CIF already....

    'David Miliband is a Tory'

    Did I mention last week my dear old mum called Liz "a bloody T**y!" :lol:
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,902
    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: Straw in the wind? Understand Corbyn camp little alarmed by canvassing figures from Unite affiliates. Not the big lead they were expecting.

    The £3 Tories will see him over the line !
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    Just seen that David Miliband is endorsing Liz Kendall. I predict CIF already....

    'David Miliband is a Tory'

    Almost, but not quite - top comment is "FFS another failure opens his trap ..."

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/17/david-miliband-electing-jeremy-corbyn-risks-one-party-tory-state
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,320
    Cyclefree said:



    If people are handsomely, very handsomely, compensated, then much of the Nimbyism would disappear. Being stingy with compensation to those affected is a false economy.

    Agreed. As I understand the rules, if you lose your home to build an airport or whatever, normally you get market value + 20% for inconvenience. That seems a bit stingy for a megaproject costing billions. But if it was 40-50%, I think most of us would cheerfully take the money.

    As for blocks of flats vs detached houses, we need both, with appropriate price differentials (Continental experience suggests blocks are around half the unit cost). Some of us prefer living in blocks of flats at the lower cost (let someone else worry about the roof, the boiler, etc.), others are only happy in detached housing because they want a garden and don't like imminent neighbours. But giving everyone a detached house is not a practical ambition, nor something that everyone wants.
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    Just seen that David Miliband is endorsing Liz Kendall. I predict CIF already....

    'David Miliband is a Tory'

    Did I mention last week my dear old mum called Liz "a blood T**y!" :lol:
    :lol:

    Does your mum support Labour, out of interest?
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,201
    edited August 2015

    Just seen that David Miliband is endorsing Liz Kendall. I predict CIF already....

    'David Miliband is a Tory'

    Did I mention last week my dear old mum called Liz "a bloody T**y!" :lol:
    :lol:

    Does your mum support Labour, out of interest?
    She hasn't said directly (or more pertinently, I haven't asked!), but from her, um, "rhetoric", I have a feeling she thinks Labour stopped being Labour when Neil Kinnock took over.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Four tourists among the Bangkok dead.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,153
    JEO said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Pulpstar said:

    JEO said:

    and secularism).

    Are you sure about that one !
    The "render unto God what is God's and to Caesar what is Caesar's" saying is what he is referring to.

    That - and the fact that for the first few centuries Christianity was not a state religion - is what has made it easier (though in reality not easy at all given how hard the Christian authorities sought to hold onto political power) for there to develop a Christian space within a wider secular world. Islam has, I think, always struggled with this.
    Not just that one quote, but the whole nature of Jesus refusing to fulfil the political role that Jews had imagined of their messiah. He also did not challenge Roman power to order his crucifixion, nor did he order any political laws, as Islam does.
    Indeed: the whole approach could be summed up by "My kingdom is not of this world."
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    Just seen that David Miliband is endorsing Liz Kendall. I predict CIF already....

    'David Miliband is a Tory'

    Did I mention last week my dear old mum called Liz "a bloody T**y!" :lol:
    :lol:

    Does your mum support Labour, out of interest?
    She hasn't said directly (or more pertinently, I haven't asked!), but from her, um, "rhetoric", I have a feeling she thinks Labour stopped being Labour when Neil Kinnock took over.
    In PB world you're mum must be a Marxist then. Kinnock and Miliband are considered very very left-wing here, anything further left than Blair is a big PB DON'T.
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    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656


    On relationship stability and contentment, hmmm I don't know. I think many go into marriage unprepared that not everyday will be wonderful and excitement, and sometimes life's responsibilities will make things dull and mundane. It's like they fall in love with the idea of love and marriage, but are unwilling to put the effort into it to maintain a relationship. I also think there are an awful lot of people incapable of committing monogamously to a marriage; and are looking for the next best thing - which regardless of whether there is a divorce or not, damages families.

    On teens, from what I've read - and heard - every older generation thinks of teens as more unruly and bad than when they were young.

    The problem that exists with marriage is that in popular culture it's been reimagined mainly as this Hollywood thing of fairytale eternal bliss from then on. Society needs to start teaching that marriage is something wonderful, but like all great achievements in life, it requires hard-work, patience, thoughtfulness and discipline. We live in an instant gratification culture where people just want what they can get the most for themselves with the least effort, and that is a very poor mindset that marriage does not fit into.

    I think that also applies to the mentality that some people are incapable of being monogamous. Except for a tiny handful of cases of psychological deficiencies, virtually everyone is capable of deciding their own actions. If someone cheats on someone else, it is because they chose to do so, not because they lack human agency.

    On teenagers, it's perfectly possible standards have been declining for centuries. :) Jokes aside though, just because it has long been believed does not mean it is never true. For example, I think it's undeniable that young people are much more willing to say disrespectful things to teachers and police officers than they were 50 years ago.
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    Speaking of Liz, she's the only candidate who hasn't emailed me yet. Got emails from Andy, Jezza, Yvette, and also one from Dan Jarvis endorsing Stella for DPL.
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Slightly O/T

    I saw a disturbing piece on Countryfile yesterday. Apparently, there's a bill going through Holyrood to reduce the ownership rights of Scottish landowners - opening the doors for a land grab a la Zimbabwe.

    My friend who has a small island just off Harris (nothing massive - he bought it for about £2m a few years ago after he sold his company) is spitting about it. There's a real risk that he could lose his holiday home, despite the fact that he has invested in it, and created employment for a dozen people there.
    Rubbish, it is only aimed at selfish rich tw**s that treat locals etc like dirt. Typical greedy Tory gits, 432 rats own more than half of Scotland, it is a scandal. If you chum is in any way decent he has nothing to fear, if he is your usual Tory **se then the sooner he is ousted the better.
    He's a Kiwi; his wife's an Iraqi-Cannuk who's been holidaying in Harris for 35 years.

    But he's still worried. He may have "nothing to fear" but under the rules as drafted the island he loves could be taken away from him.
    The rules will be very sensible and any good land owner will have nothing to fear. It is the small minority of bad ones that will be affected as they should be.
    English = Bad.

    Everyone else = Good.

  • Options
    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    Ms Apocalypse,

    "On teens, from what I've read - and heard - every older generation thinks of teens as more unruly and bad than when they were young."

    That's true. In the fifties, teddy boys were a real shock when they were compared to the thirties Society changes and what is rebellion to one 'cohort' is nothing to a later one.

    But the young need to rebel and they start from the status-quo.

    It will swing back and in a few generations, teens will be nice and respectable again. Or maybe, there's a degree of rose-tinted spectacle wearing when we look back.
  • Options
    Hmmm

    Sadiq Khan leads Zac Goldsmith by 13%

    Claims that Sadiq Khan would be held back in the race for mayor by his Muslim faith are disputed today by a new poll.

    Clips of Mr Khan and Tory frontrunner Zac Goldsmith were shown to potential voters to test how ethnic identity could play a part in the battle.

    Before seeing the videos, 44 per cent in the Survation poll said they would vote for the Labour candidate and 35 per cent for the Tory. Afterwards, 50 per cent picked Mr Khan and 37 per cent Mr Goldsmith.

    http://bit.ly/1Phm40V
  • Options
    Survation's write up is here

    http://bit.ly/1IYsRbW
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited August 2015
    My mother liked Keith Joseph, Nick Ridley and today - probably Michael Gove if she was still with us!

    That reminds me, I must ask my brother who he's voting for in the Labour leadership. He's been a card-carrier for years.

    Just seen that David Miliband is endorsing Liz Kendall. I predict CIF already....

    'David Miliband is a Tory'

    Did I mention last week my dear old mum called Liz "a bloody T**y!" :lol:
    :lol:

    Does your mum support Labour, out of interest?
    She hasn't said directly (or more pertinently, I haven't asked!), but from her, um, "rhetoric", I have a feeling she thinks Labour stopped being Labour when Neil Kinnock took over.
    In PB world you're mum must be a Marxist then. Kinnock and Miliband are considered very very left-wing here, anything further left than Blair is a big PB DON'T.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,902
    edited August 2015

    Speaking of Liz, she's the only candidate who hasn't emailed me yet. Got emails from Andy, Jezza, Yvette, and also one from Dan Jarvis endorsing Stella for DPL.

    Is Yvette looking for signs of Labour life under the microscope in her email to you ?
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Mr. Eagles, hmm. Is a pre-viewing 9 point lead for Khan commensurate with most polling? It sounds generous to him.
  • Options
    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    When the banking crisis crippled global markets seven years ago, central bankers stepped in as lenders of last resort. Profligate private-sector loans were moved on to the public-sector balance sheet and vast money-printing gave the global economy room to heal.

    Time is now rapidly running out. From China to Brazil, the central banks have lost control and at the same time the global economy is grinding to a halt. It is only a matter of time before stock markets collapse under the weight of their lofty expectations and record valuations.

    The FTSE 100 has now erased its gains for the year, but there are signs things could get a whole lot worse.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/11805523/Doomsday-clock-for-global-market-crash-strikes-one-minute-to-midnight-as-central-banks-lose-control.html
  • Options
    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    Cyclefree said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Slightly O/T

    I saw a disturbing piece on Countryfile yesterday. Apparently, there's a bill going through Holyrood to reduce the ownership rights of Scottish landowners - opening the doors for a land grab a la Zimbabwe.

    My friend who has a small island just off Harris (nothing massive - he bought it for about £2m a few years ago after he sold his company) is spitting about it. There's a real risk that he could lose his holiday home, despite the fact that he has invested in it, and created employment for a dozen people there.
    Rubbish, it is only aimed at selfish rich tw**s that treat locals etc like dirt. Typical greedy Tory gits, 432 rats own more than half of Scotland, it is a scandal. If you chum is in any way decent he has nothing to fear, if he is your usual Tory **se then the sooner he is ousted the better.
    He's a Kiwi; his wife's an Iraqi-Cannuk who's been holidaying in Harris for 35 years.

    But he's still worried. He may have "nothing to fear" but under the rules as drafted the island he loves could be taken away from him.
    The rules will be very sensible and any good land owner will have nothing to fear. It is the small minority of bad ones that will be affected as they should be.
    What does this new law say? I've only dimly heard about it.
    In case you're really interested :grin:

    https://basedrones.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/land-reform-scotland-bill.pdf
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    Survation's write up is here

    http://bit.ly/1IYsRbW

    I think they've proved that Asians will admit to voting on racial lines but whites won't. :-)
  • Options
    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    edited August 2015

    Cyclefree said:



    If people are handsomely, very handsomely, compensated, then much of the Nimbyism would disappear. Being stingy with compensation to those affected is a false economy.

    Agreed. As I understand the rules, if you lose your home to build an airport or whatever, normally you get market value + 20% for inconvenience. That seems a bit stingy for a megaproject costing billions. But if it was 40-50%, I think most of us would cheerfully take the money.

    As for blocks of flats vs detached houses, we need both, with appropriate price differentials (Continental experience suggests blocks are around half the unit cost). Some of us prefer living in blocks of flats at the lower cost (let someone else worry about the roof, the boiler, etc.), others are only happy in detached housing because they want a garden and don't like imminent neighbours. But giving everyone a detached house is not a practical ambition, nor something that everyone wants.
    The problem isn't so much those immediately losing their homes, but the much larger number of people who will see their house drop in value and have to deal with a lot of negatives of the new work. For example, my uncle a few years ago bought a house in Hertfordshire on a quiet street overlooking a green belt field with horses, which he finds very calming - something useful as he has been diagnosed with high blood pressure. Out of nowhere, the district council announced they were considering building a new megaschool there, to provide school places not just for his small town but for the bigger town one over. This would have meant no more green views, no more horses, loud screaming schoolchildren during the day, and a gridlocked street twice a day during the school run. He would have received no compensation whatsoever. Is that fair?
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited August 2015
    JEO said:


    On relationship stability and contentment, hmmm I don't know. I think many go into marriage unprepared that not everyday will be wonderful and excitement, and sometimes life's responsibilities will make things dull and mundane. It's like they fall in love with the idea of love and marriage, but are unwilling to put the effort into it to maintain a relationship. I also think there are an awful lot of people incapable of committing monogamously to a marriage; and are looking for the next best thing - which regardless of whether there is a divorce or not, damages families.

    On teens, from what I've read - and heard - every older generation thinks of teens as more unruly and bad than when they were young.

    The problem that exists with marriage is that in popular culture it's been reimagined mainly as this Hollywood thing of fairytale eternal bliss from then on. Society needs to start teaching that marriage is something wonderful, but like all great achievements in life, it requires hard-work, patience, thoughtfulness and discipline. We live in an instant gratification culture where people just want what they can get the most for themselves with the least effort, and that is a very poor mindset that marriage does not fit into.

    I think that also applies to the mentality that some people are incapable of being monogamous. Except for a tiny handful of cases of psychological deficiencies, virtually everyone is capable of deciding their own actions. If someone cheats on someone else, it is because they chose to do so, not because they lack human agency.

    On teenagers, it's perfectly possible standards have been declining for centuries. :) Jokes aside though, just because it has long been believed does not mean it is never true. For example, I think it's undeniable that young people are much more willing to say disrespectful things to teachers and police officers than they were 50 years ago.
    On marriage I 1000% agree with what you've said there. Especially that people expect things 'now' and don't like putting in the effort to get it.

    I think your point on young people is true, but then unruliness has simply come into different forms over the years. Overall, I'd say it's an incredibly small minority who are rude to teachers, in my experience.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,902

    Survation's write up is here

    http://bit.ly/1IYsRbW

    How would your bank balance be looking if you'd put a hundred quid backing the relevant choice out of all Survation's polls in the last 5 years ?
  • Options
    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    The message that is coming out of Scotland re Land Reform is loud and clear.. "Invest here at your peril"..
  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited August 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    isam said:

    3% to 13% in five years... amazing what a dismal campaign can do

    25 MPs - 5 MPs forecasts, to only actual 1 MP = plus losing a seat, plus your party leader failing to win a seat for the nth time. That's a dismal campaign. Unfortunately in FPTP, vote-share, unless accompanied by considerable seat total, doesn't mean much.
    I think you will find dropping from 57 seats to 8 is the correct definition of a dismal election ;)
    Well I'd agree there. Both UKIP and Labour had dismal elections.
    Number of seats +1
    Number of votes +3 million
    Share of vote +9.5%

    Whatever happened to the good old days?
    Farage has misplayed his hand a touch post GE I think, the resignation followed by unresignation was a bit daft. UKIP need to get all hands to the pump for the locals and Euro Ref.
    If UKIP sort their act out there should be enough going on to keep sufficient momentum up until the 2020 General Election.

    If Dave comes back with a blank piece of paper and passes it off as anything but a blank piece of paper all hell will break loose.

    It is complete nonsense for anyone to suggest UKIP will have lost their raison d'etre after the EU referendum. The referendum will more than likely be won by the Yes side. However, losing a referendum does not mean everyone has to move on from the result. Polling has suggested that a significant number of people want a repatriation of powers from the EU. A significant minority are happy with the current level of integration with the EU and a minority want more integration. That means that a huge number of people will be sorely disappointed when the EU continues to integrate further. The issue of the EU will not disappear post-referendum.

    There will be the Euro elections in 2019 which UKIP should take advantage of. A year later the General Election.

    Anyone suggesting second place under a FPTP system is meaningless ignores the importance of being a credible contender for the seat. Voters are far more likely to back a candidate if they are in with a realistic chance of winning. There are around a dozen or so seats where UKIP are in with a decent shot of taking. If they target their resources properly and not allow every other candidate to pump money into vanity projects such as campaign offices they might pick up more than the 1 seat they currently have.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,201
    edited August 2015
    The four Muslim dominated provinces in southern Thailand are Pattani (88% ethnic Malay), Yala (72%) and Narathiwat (80%), plus Satun (68% Muslim, but not majority Malay). Satun is supposed to be less fractious than the other three provinces.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,153
    JEO said:

    Cyclefree said:



    If people are handsomely, very handsomely, compensated, then much of the Nimbyism would disappear. Being stingy with compensation to those affected is a false economy.

    Agreed. As I understand the rules, if you lose your home to build an airport or whatever, normally you get market value + 20% for inconvenience. That seems a bit stingy for a megaproject costing billions. But if it was 40-50%, I think most of us would cheerfully take the money.

    As for blocks of flats vs detached houses, we need both, with appropriate price differentials (Continental experience suggests blocks are around half the unit cost). Some of us prefer living in blocks of flats at the lower cost (let someone else worry about the roof, the boiler, etc.), others are only happy in detached housing because they want a garden and don't like imminent neighbours. But giving everyone a detached house is not a practical ambition, nor something that everyone wants.
    The problem isn't so much those immediately losing their homes, but the much larger number of people who will see their house drop in value and have to deal with a lot of negatives of the new work. For example, my uncle a few years ago bought a house in Hertfordshire on a quiet street overlooking a green belt field with horses, which he finds very calming - something useful as he has been diagnosed with high blood pressure. Out of nowhere, the district council announced they were considering building a new megaschool there, to provide school places not just for his small town but for the bigger town one over. This would have meant no more green views, no more horses, loud screaming schoolchildren during the day, and a gridlocked street twice a day during the school run. He would have received no compensation whatsoever. Is that fair?

    I think for people in such a position, they should get compensation, either in the form of, say, reduced council tax or purchase at market value + something extra. If a project is for the greater good, then we should be prepared to pay for it properly.

  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Survation's write up is here

    http://bit.ly/1IYsRbW

    How would your bank balance be looking if you'd put a hundred quid backing the relevant choice out of all Survation's polls in the last 5 years ?
    Well UKIP and the Lib Dems used Survation at their private pollsters at the last election, that means they are very well respected.

    Oh, 9 MPs between them. I see your point.
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Stephen Bush ‏@stephenkb

    People who defeated Ed Miliband: SNP, Ukip, Respect and the Conservatives.
    People defeated by Ed Miliband: David Miliband.
  • Options

    JEO said:


    On relationship stability and contentment, hmmm I don't know. I think many go into marriage unprepared that not everyday will be wonderful and excitement, and sometimes life's responsibilities will make things dull and mundane. It's like they fall in love with the idea of love and marriage, but are unwilling to put the effort into it to maintain a relationship. I also think there are an awful lot of people incapable of committing monogamously to a marriage; and are looking for the next best thing - which regardless of whether there is a divorce or not, damages families.

    On teens, from what I've read - and heard - every older generation thinks of teens as more unruly and bad than when they were young.

    The problem that exists with marriage is that in popular culture it's been reimagined mainly as this Hollywood thing of fairytale eternal bliss from then on. Society needs to start teaching that marriage is something wonderful, but like all great achievements in life, it requires hard-work, patience, thoughtfulness and discipline. We live in an instant gratification culture where people just want what they can get the most for themselves with the least effort, and that is a very poor mindset that marriage does not fit into.

    I think that also applies to the mentality that some people are incapable of being monogamous. Except for a tiny handful of cases of psychological deficiencies, virtually everyone is capable of deciding their own actions. If someone cheats on someone else, it is because they chose to do so, not because they lack human agency.

    On teenagers, it's perfectly possible standards have been declining for centuries. :) Jokes aside though, just because it has long been believed does not mean it is never true. For example, I think it's undeniable that young people are much more willing to say disrespectful things to teachers and police officers than they were 50 years ago.
    On marriage I 1000% agree with what you've said there. Especially that people expect things 'now' and don't like putting in the effort to get it.

    I think your point on young people is true, but then unruliness has simply come into different forms over the years. Overall, I'd say it's an incredibly small minority who are rude to teachers, in my experience.
    [Begin hyperbole]

    Marriage is simply another form of slavery, and it is high time that it was abolished!

    [End hyperbole]
  • Options
    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    Blue_rog said:

    Cyclefree said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Slightly O/T

    I saw a disturbing piece on Countryfile yesterday. Apparently, there's a bill going through Holyrood to reduce the ownership rights of Scottish landowners - opening the doors for a land grab a la Zimbabwe.

    My friend who has a small island just off Harris (nothing massive - he bought it for about £2m a few years ago after he sold his company) is spitting about it. There's a real risk that he could lose his holiday home, despite the fact that he has invested in it, and created employment for a dozen people there.
    Rubbish, it is only aimed at selfish rich tw**s that treat locals etc like dirt. Typical greedy Tory gits, 432 rats own more than half of Scotland, it is a scandal. If you chum is in any way decent he has nothing to fear, if he is your usual Tory **se then the sooner he is ousted the better.
    He's a Kiwi; his wife's an Iraqi-Cannuk who's been holidaying in Harris for 35 years.

    But he's still worried. He may have "nothing to fear" but under the rules as drafted the island he loves could be taken away from him.
    The rules will be very sensible and any good land owner will have nothing to fear. It is the small minority of bad ones that will be affected as they should be.
    What does this new law say? I've only dimly heard about it.
    In case you're really interested :grin:

    https://basedrones.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/land-reform-scotland-bill.pdf
    I think section 47 is interesting
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Speaking of Liz, she's the only candidate who hasn't emailed me yet. Got emails from Andy, Jezza, Yvette, and also one from Dan Jarvis endorsing Stella for DPL.

    Is Yvette looking for signs of Labour life under the microscope in her email to you ?
    "We have a choice. It’s a choice between a Labour Party back on its feet -
    fighting the Tories, fighting for our principles, fighting for our future.
    And a Tory Britain where Labour walks away.

    This is my plan for an alternative that is both radical and credible,
    true to our values, but serious enough to win.
    Take a look, then click the pictures to share. "
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,153
    Blue_rog said:

    Cyclefree said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Slightly O/T

    I saw a disturbing piece on Countryfile yesterday. Apparently, there's a bill going through Holyrood to reduce the ownership rights of Scottish landowners - opening the doors for a land grab a la Zimbabwe.

    My friend who has a small island just off Harris (nothing massive - he bought it for about £2m a few years ago after he sold his company) is spitting about it. There's a real risk that he could lose his holiday home, despite the fact that he has invested in it, and created employment for a dozen people there.
    Rubbish, it is only aimed at selfish rich tw**s that treat locals etc like dirt. Typical greedy Tory gits, 432 rats own more than half of Scotland, it is a scandal. If you chum is in any way decent he has nothing to fear, if he is your usual Tory **se then the sooner he is ousted the better.
    He's a Kiwi; his wife's an Iraqi-Cannuk who's been holidaying in Harris for 35 years.

    But he's still worried. He may have "nothing to fear" but under the rules as drafted the island he loves could be taken away from him.
    The rules will be very sensible and any good land owner will have nothing to fear. It is the small minority of bad ones that will be affected as they should be.
    What does this new law say? I've only dimly heard about it.
    In case you're really interested :grin:

    https://basedrones.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/land-reform-scotland-bill.pdf
    Thank you. That'll teach me to ask!

  • Options

    Stephen Bush ‏@stephenkb

    People who defeated Ed Miliband: SNP, Ukip, Respect and the Conservatives.
    People defeated by Ed Miliband: David Miliband.

    He missed off bacon sandwiches from a list things that defeated Ed Miliband.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,153
    SeanT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree ..The reports say it is a Hindu shrine..

    OK, thank you.

    Does Thailand have a terrorist problem? All I know about is the Bali bomb.

    Muslim insurgency in its southern-most provinces, predominantly inhabited by ethnic Malays. The said provinces were formerly part of the Malay states, divided ultimately between Britain (Malaya, now Malaysia) and Siam (now Thailand)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Siamese_Treaty_of_1909
    The Muslim insurgency has gone quiet of late, and it is very rare for it to affect Bangkok.

    It's somewhat more likely to be Red factionalists trying to kick of the Red/Yellow Siamese civil war 2.0.

    But we shall see. Horrible deed. I have walked past that shrine hundreds of times.
    Odd that no-one has claimed responsibility yet.
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree ..The reports say it is a Hindu shrine..

    OK, thank you.

    Does Thailand have a terrorist problem? All I know about is the Bali bomb.

    Muslim insurgency in its southern-most provinces, predominantly inhabited by ethnic Malays. The said provinces were formerly part of the Malay states, divided ultimately between Britain (Malaya, now Malaysia) and Siam (now Thailand)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Siamese_Treaty_of_1909
    The Muslim insurgency has gone quiet of late, and it is very rare for it to affect Bangkok.

    It's somewhat more likely to be Red factionalists trying to kick of the Red/Yellow Siamese civil war 2.0.

    But we shall see. Horrible deed. I have walked past that shrine hundreds of times.
    I've never been east of Madras (or Chennai, though mum and dad always call it Madras), but yes must be horrible to know that somewhere you've been many a time is the centre of such madness and destruction.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    I suspect we're about to discover just how little influence the supposed "king over the water" David Miliband actually has on the Labour grassroots today.
  • Options

    Stephen Bush ‏@stephenkb

    People who defeated Ed Miliband: SNP, Ukip, Respect and the Conservatives.
    People defeated by Ed Miliband: David Miliband.

    My knowledge of Bradford is a little hazy, but didn't Galloway LOSE Bradford West?
  • Options
    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    Stephen Bush ‏@stephenkb

    People who defeated Ed Miliband: SNP, Ukip, Respect and the Conservatives.
    People defeated by Ed Miliband: David Miliband.

    He missed off bacon sandwiches from a list things that defeated Ed Miliband.
    That made me laugh out loud!
  • Options
    DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106

    I wouldn't say I personally oppose marriage - but it's just something I wouldn't go into.

    "Marriage is a great institution, but I'm not ready for an institution."
    Mae West
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625
    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: Straw in the wind? Understand Corbyn camp little alarmed by canvassing figures from Unite affiliates. Not the big lead they were expecting.

    It is hard to believe he could have gained as massive a lead as it appears, even as bad as the others have been, and there will be plenty of posturing on social media and a bandwagon effect. But could all the other indicators really be far enough out that he won't win?
  • Options
    Plato said:

    My mother liked Keith Joseph, Nick Ridley and today - probably Michael Gove if she was still with us!

    That reminds me, I must ask my brother who he's voting for in the Labour leadership. He's been a card-carrier for years.

    Just seen that David Miliband is endorsing Liz Kendall. I predict CIF already....

    'David Miliband is a Tory'

    Did I mention last week my dear old mum called Liz "a bloody T**y!" :lol:
    :lol:

    Does your mum support Labour, out of interest?
    She hasn't said directly (or more pertinently, I haven't asked!), but from her, um, "rhetoric", I have a feeling she thinks Labour stopped being Labour when Neil Kinnock took over.
    In PB world you're mum must be a Marxist then. Kinnock and Miliband are considered very very left-wing here, anything further left than Blair is a big PB DON'T.
    Nick Ridley?! All i remember is the spitting image puppet constantly spewing clouds of smoke!
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    Stephen Bush ‏@stephenkb

    People who defeated Ed Miliband: SNP, Ukip, Respect and the Conservatives.
    People defeated by Ed Miliband: David Miliband.

    My knowledge of Bradford is a little hazy, but didn't Galloway LOSE Bradford West?
    He won it before he lost it.
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    OT I recently found Kevin Pietesen's book and bought it for a quid.
    If what he says is true, especially about Prior and the Head Coaches, then its a miracle we ever won anything.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited August 2015
    More trouble in Sweden, following on from the IKEA knife murders a few days ago:

    "Three people have been taken to hospital after being stabbed in central Norrköping on Monday afternoon, according to Swedish newspaper Norrköpings Tidningar. A 24-year-old man has been arrested."

    http://www.thelocal.se/20150817/three-injured-in-stabbing-spree-in-norrkping
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    F1: apparently an improved Honda engine will take it to power levels similar to Ferrari this weekend.

    If you believe that (I'm a bit doubtful, to be honest), backing Alonso/Button for points may be wise, if you can get nice odds (even if the car has the pace, reliability could be an issue).
  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: Straw in the wind? Understand Corbyn camp little alarmed by canvassing figures from Unite affiliates. Not the big lead they were expecting.

    It is hard to believe he could have gained as massive a lead as it appears, even as bad as the others have been, and there will be plenty of posturing on social media and a bandwagon effect. But could all the other indicators really be far enough out that he won't win?
    If Corybn does now lose, then labour will tear itself apart in the blaze of fury and hashtags.
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: Straw in the wind? Understand Corbyn camp little alarmed by canvassing figures from Unite affiliates. Not the big lead they were expecting.

    It is hard to believe he could have gained as massive a lead as it appears, even as bad as the others have been, and there will be plenty of posturing on social media and a bandwagon effect. But could all the other indicators really be far enough out that he won't win?
    You don't mean the polling might be wrong
    #
    Rule 1,... don't trust any poll about anything, period.
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Comical. Virtue signalling rebounding...

    Jim Waterson ‏@jimwaterson

    Greetings from Iowa, where it took me 5mins on my phone to take control of a load of strangers' Labour ballot papers: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/vote-early-vote-often-vote-using-someones-instagram
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Keith Joseph reminded me of the Star Trek aliens whose heads pulsated. Was that The Cage? I found him rather scary. http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/2008/08-atomicdog-009/image001.jpg

    Plato said:

    My mother liked Keith Joseph, Nick Ridley and today - probably Michael Gove if she was still with us!

    That reminds me, I must ask my brother who he's voting for in the Labour leadership. He's been a card-carrier for years.

    Just seen that David Miliband is endorsing Liz Kendall. I predict CIF already....

    'David Miliband is a Tory'

    Did I mention last week my dear old mum called Liz "a bloody T**y!" :lol:
    :lol:

    Does your mum support Labour, out of interest?
    She hasn't said directly (or more pertinently, I haven't asked!), but from her, um, "rhetoric", I have a feeling she thinks Labour stopped being Labour when Neil Kinnock took over.
    In PB world you're mum must be a Marxist then. Kinnock and Miliband are considered very very left-wing here, anything further left than Blair is a big PB DON'T.
    Nick Ridley?! All i remember is the spitting image puppet constantly spewing clouds of smoke!
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: Straw in the wind? Understand Corbyn camp little alarmed by canvassing figures from Unite affiliates. Not the big lead they were expecting.

    It is hard to believe he could have gained as massive a lead as it appears, even as bad as the others have been, and there will be plenty of posturing on social media and a bandwagon effect. But could all the other indicators really be far enough out that he won't win?
    You don't mean the polling might be wrong
    #
    Rule 1,... don't trust any poll about anything, period.
    Unless it's a CCHQ private poll! Gold Standard!
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Might start image searching twitter and voting Cooper wherever possible #value
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited August 2015

    Agreed. As I understand the rules, if you lose your home to build an airport or whatever, normally you get market value + 20% for inconvenience.

    Once again, one has to be gobsmacked by the sheer ignorance of someone who was an MP for 13 years, and who presumably attended debates and voted in matters involving compulsory purchase. It's perhaps a bit unfair to pick on Nick, since I imagine nearly all Labour MPs, and perhaps some MPs of other parties, were and are equally ignorant. Even so, surely anyone even vaguely associated with lawmaking and public policy should have at least a cursory acquaintance with compulsory purchase.

    For the record, you get (in theory) only the market value, and zero compensation for the inconvenience and hassle of having your home confiscated. You are also unlikely to be able to recover the full cost of ancillary expenses, for example the inevitable legal fees. The net result is that you lose out, sometimes very substantially, if you happen to be the innocent victim of some local authority or central government compulsory purchase diktat.

    This is a disgrace IMO - a blot on the UK. Some other countries do provide an uplift on the valuation, but the UK doesn't.

    An even bigger disgrace is that those whose homes are blighted by a development, but don't actually get their land grabbed, often get not a penny.

    My own view is that, as Cyclefree says, this meanness is counter-productive, and that it would be cheaper in the long term to pay more so that homeowners are not so hugely incentivised to do everything in their power to resist each and every compulsory purchase order.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    Comical. Virtue signalling rebounding...

    Jim Waterson ‏@jimwaterson

    Greetings from Iowa, where it took me 5mins on my phone to take control of a load of strangers' Labour ballot papers: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/vote-early-vote-often-vote-using-someones-instagram

    What is it with people taking photos of ballots? And it may just be me, but they seem to be predominantly on the left.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Brilliant!

    Comical. Virtue signalling rebounding...

    Jim Waterson ‏@jimwaterson

    Greetings from Iowa, where it took me 5mins on my phone to take control of a load of strangers' Labour ballot papers: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/vote-early-vote-often-vote-using-someones-instagram

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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Comical. Virtue signalling rebounding...

    Jim Waterson ‏@jimwaterson

    Greetings from Iowa, where it took me 5mins on my phone to take control of a load of strangers' Labour ballot papers: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/vote-early-vote-often-vote-using-someones-instagram

    Oh gosh.
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    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    More trouble in Sweden, following on from the IKEA knife murders a few days ago:

    "Three people have been taken to hospital after being stabbed in central Norrköping on Monday afternoon, according to Swedish newspaper Norrköpings Tidningar. A 24-year-old man has been arrested."

    http://www.thelocal.se/20150817/three-injured-in-stabbing-spree-in-norrkping

    According to some moderately persuasive rumours, the IKEA murders weren't just stabbings, they were "beheadings".

    But we don't know for sure, because no one is saying.

    It certainly sounds like a suicidal jihadi attack to me: apparently the Eritrean suspect turned the knife on himself after the decapitations.
    I linked a story earlier from a mainstream source saying all the people involved knew each other.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    edited August 2015

    Comical. Virtue signalling rebounding...

    Jim Waterson ‏@jimwaterson

    Greetings from Iowa, where it took me 5mins on my phone to take control of a load of strangers' Labour ballot papers: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/vote-early-vote-often-vote-using-someones-instagram

    This is now getting embarrassing. In the race for most incompetent political or administrative entity, Labour are starting to make OFSTED look positively well-organised. They're even running the notorious repayments division of the Student Loans Company, who don't keep proper records of addresses or repayments, close for first.

    Is there any huge, avoidable, painful and mind-bendingly stupid unforced error they have yet to make in this set of elections?
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: Straw in the wind? Understand Corbyn camp little alarmed by canvassing figures from Unite affiliates. Not the big lead they were expecting.

    It is hard to believe he could have gained as massive a lead as it appears, even as bad as the others have been, and there will be plenty of posturing on social media and a bandwagon effect. But could all the other indicators really be far enough out that he won't win?
    You don't mean the polling might be wrong
    #
    Rule 1,... don't trust any poll about anything, period.
    Unless it's a CCHQ private poll! Gold Standard!
    Conversely, IOS's feel for the Labour ground game that is so" utterly brilliant that he cannot talk about it " falls in to IOSIC category (IOS is crap)
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: Straw in the wind? Understand Corbyn camp little alarmed by canvassing figures from Unite affiliates. Not the big lead they were expecting.

    It is hard to believe he could have gained as massive a lead as it appears, even as bad as the others have been, and there will be plenty of posturing on social media and a bandwagon effect. But could all the other indicators really be far enough out that he won't win?
    You don't mean the polling might be wrong
    #
    Rule 1,... don't trust any poll about anything, period.
    Unless it's a CCHQ private poll! Gold Standard!
    Conversely, IOS's feel for the Labour ground game that is so" utterly brilliant that he cannot talk about it " falls in to IOSIC category (IOS is crap)
    Titter. Has he logged in since?
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    ydoethur said:

    Comical. Virtue signalling rebounding...

    Jim Waterson ‏@jimwaterson

    Greetings from Iowa, where it took me 5mins on my phone to take control of a load of strangers' Labour ballot papers: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/vote-early-vote-often-vote-using-someones-instagram

    This is now getting embarrassing. In the race for most incompetent political or administrative entity, Labour are starting to make OFSTED look positively well-organised. They're even running the notorious repayments division of the Student Loans Company, who don't keep proper records of addresses or repayments, close for first.

    Is there any huge, avoidable, painful and mind-bendingly stupid unforced error they have yet to make in this set of elections?
    This does seem to be a standard method for accessing government-type websites - I just renewed my car tax with a similar two-part code. (OTOH, I can't see anyone else wanting to steal my code and pay my car tax for me).

    I'm not sure why having two codes printed next to each other is superior to one code - surely printing one on each side of the paper - or on a separate sheet - would make more sense?
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    RobD said:

    Titter. Has he logged in since?

    He's probably busy helping to run the leadership election.
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: Straw in the wind? Understand Corbyn camp little alarmed by canvassing figures from Unite affiliates. Not the big lead they were expecting.

    It is hard to believe he could have gained as massive a lead as it appears, even as bad as the others have been, and there will be plenty of posturing on social media and a bandwagon effect. But could all the other indicators really be far enough out that he won't win?
    You don't mean the polling might be wrong
    #
    Rule 1,... don't trust any poll about anything, period.
    Unless it's a CCHQ private poll! Gold Standard!
    Conversely, IOS's feel for the Labour ground game that is so" utterly brilliant that he cannot talk about it " falls in to IOSIC category (IOS is crap)
    *excitedly* "What we're going to do is, in the afternoon, we're going to knock on all the doors of the people who said they'd vote Labour and haven't yet voted, then they'll go out and vote for us. The Tories can't compete with that."
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited August 2015
    glw said:

    RobD said:

    Titter. Has he logged in since?

    He's probably busy helping to run the leadership election.
    Perhaps he's one of the candidates? Three of them seem pretty clueless.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    ydoethur said:

    Comical. Virtue signalling rebounding...

    Jim Waterson ‏@jimwaterson

    Greetings from Iowa, where it took me 5mins on my phone to take control of a load of strangers' Labour ballot papers: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/vote-early-vote-often-vote-using-someones-instagram

    This is now getting embarrassing. In the race for most incompetent political or administrative entity, Labour are starting to make OFSTED look positively well-organised. They're even running the notorious repayments division of the Student Loans Company, who don't keep proper records of addresses or repayments, close for first.

    Is there any huge, avoidable, painful and mind-bendingly stupid unforced error they have yet to make in this set of elections?
    This does seem to be a standard method for accessing government-type websites - I just renewed my car tax with a similar two-part code. (OTOH, I can't see anyone else wanting to steal my code and pay my car tax for me).

    I'm not sure why having two codes printed next to each other is superior to one code - surely printing one on each side of the paper - or on a separate sheet - would make more sense?
    A way of identifying you on the system without revealing the password, perhaps. Useful if you need to call.
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    GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    edited August 2015
    Hundreds of people have apparently put up a photo of their completed Labour ballot paper. Unfortunately, by doing so they have revealed the codes that enable others to vote online on their behalf.


    http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/vote-early-vote-often-vote-using-someones-instagram#.fx6jeJvNq
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109


    I'm not sure why having two codes printed next to each other is superior to one code - surely printing one on each side of the paper - or on a separate sheet - would make more sense?

    Well, there you have it Tissue Price. You have associated 'sense' and 'Labour'. Unless there is a 'non' in front of the 'sense', the two words seem to have parted company a while ago.
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