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  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Comical. Virtue signalling rebounding...

    Jim Waterson ‏@jimwaterson

    Greetings from Iowa, where it took me 5mins on my phone to take control of a load of strangers' Labour ballot papers: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/vote-early-vote-often-vote-using-someones-instagram

    Is this the excuse ABC need to void the campaign?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,175
    Disraeli said:

    I fully agree with Nicola Sturgeon's comment:
    “if in Scotland we faced exit from the EU, effectively against our will – something which the polling suggests could happen – it would not be at all surprising if that caused a swell of demand for a further independence referendum.”

    I understand her anguish that Scotland may find itself outvoted by the other nations of the Union, and having decisions foisted on them for which Scotland has not voted.

    Well she'd better get used to it - if Scotland does indeed join the EU post independence then she'll find this sort of situation cropping up quite a lot.

    I think we should give Sturgeon her desired block on the EU referendum... but only as long as the Orkney & Shetlands Islands get a similar block on the next Scottish indyref.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Scott_P said:

    Comical. Virtue signalling rebounding...

    Jim Waterson ‏@jimwaterson

    Greetings from Iowa, where it took me 5mins on my phone to take control of a load of strangers' Labour ballot papers: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/vote-early-vote-often-vote-using-someones-instagram

    Is this the excuse ABC need to void the campaign?
    Won't happen unless the result is extremely close. And even then....
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535

    I'm not sure why having two codes printed next to each other is superior to one code - surely printing one on each side of the paper - or on a separate sheet - would make more sense?

    Just a guess, but I don't think it is to do with security, but to help reduce errors. You are probably slightly less likely to enter two codes incorrectly, even if checksums are used, than one code of essentially the same length.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: Straw in the wind? Understand Corbyn camp little alarmed by canvassing figures from Unite affiliates. Not the big lead they were expecting.

    It is hard to believe he could have gained as massive a lead as it appears, even as bad as the others have been, and there will be plenty of posturing on social media and a bandwagon effect. But could all the other indicators really be far enough out that he won't win?
    You don't mean the polling might be wrong
    #
    Rule 1,... don't trust any poll about anything, period.
    Unless it's a CCHQ private poll! Gold Standard!
    Conversely, IOS's feel for the Labour ground game that is so" utterly brilliant that he cannot talk about it " falls in to IOSIC category (IOS is crap)
    Titter. Has he logged in since?
    Sadly not, I believe. I hope some of the more intense 'Labour will win' predictors return in time, as has happened with 'Yes will win' IndyRef folk. I was intense in belief Labour would win, but because it was not an outcome that I particularly wanted, the embarrassment at that prediction was slight, and personal attacks would not come my way as they would for the IOS's of the world.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,769

    Disraeli said:

    I fully agree with Nicola Sturgeon's comment:
    “if in Scotland we faced exit from the EU, effectively against our will – something which the polling suggests could happen – it would not be at all surprising if that caused a swell of demand for a further independence referendum.”

    I understand her anguish that Scotland may find itself outvoted by the other nations of the Union, and having decisions foisted on them for which Scotland has not voted.

    Well she'd better get used to it - if Scotland does indeed join the EU post independence then she'll find this sort of situation cropping up quite a lot.

    I think we should give Sturgeon her desired block on the EU referendum... but only as long as the Orkney & Shetlands Islands get a similar block on the next Scottish indyref.
    The 1979 referendum did of course have a sort of blocker clause - not just 50% of those voting, but a minimum of 40% of those entitled to vote. If Cameron wanted to be really awkward in the event of the second referendum, that is one provision that could be brought back and might be tricky to argue against (given the recent rejection in a previous referendum and the importance of the issue).
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: Straw in the wind? Understand Corbyn camp little alarmed by canvassing figures from Unite affiliates. Not the big lead they were expecting.

    It is hard to believe he could have gained as massive a lead as it appears, even as bad as the others have been, and there will be plenty of posturing on social media and a bandwagon effect. But could all the other indicators really be far enough out that he won't win?
    You don't mean the polling might be wrong
    #
    Rule 1,... don't trust any poll about anything, period.
    Unless it's a CCHQ private poll! Gold Standard!
    Conversely, IOS's feel for the Labour ground game that is so" utterly brilliant that he cannot talk about it " falls in to IOSIC category (IOS is crap)
    Titter. Has he logged in since?
    Sadly not, I believe. I hope some of the more intense 'Labour will win' predictors return in time, as has happened with 'Yes will win' IndyRef folk. I was intense in belief Labour would win, but because it was not an outcome that I particularly wanted, the embarrassment at that prediction was slight, and personal attacks would not come my way as they would for the IOS's of the world.
    Yeah, we may rib them mercilessly, but that would eventually subside. Would also prevent similar predictions being made in the future. Despite reveling in all those crossover polls, not in my wildest dreams did I imagine a Tory majority!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,684
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Slightly O/T

    I saw a disturbing piece on Countryfile yesterday. Apparently, there's a bill going through Holyrood to reduce the ownership rights of Scottish landowners - opening the doors for a land grab a la Zimbabwe.

    My friend who has a small island just off Harris (nothing massive - he bought it for about £2m a few years ago after he sold his company) is spitting about it. There's a real risk that he could lose his holiday home, despite the fact that he has invested in it, and created employment for a dozen people there.
    Rubbish, it is only aimed at selfish rich tw**s that treat locals etc like dirt. Typical greedy Tory gits, 432 rats own more than half of Scotland, it is a scandal. If you chum is in any way decent he has nothing to fear, if he is your usual Tory **se then the sooner he is ousted the better.
    He's a Kiwi; his wife's an Iraqi-Cannuk who's been holidaying in Harris for 35 years.

    But he's still worried. He may have "nothing to fear" but under the rules as drafted the island he loves could be taken away from him.
    The rules will be very sensible and any good land owner will have nothing to fear. It is the small minority of bad ones that will be affected as they should be.
    How would the proposals affect them?
    https://consult.scotland.gov.uk/land-reform-and-tenancy-unit/land-reform-scotland
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: Straw in the wind? Understand Corbyn camp little alarmed by canvassing figures from Unite affiliates. Not the big lead they were expecting.

    It is hard to believe he could have gained as massive a lead as it appears, even as bad as the others have been, and there will be plenty of posturing on social media and a bandwagon effect. But could all the other indicators really be far enough out that he won't win?
    You don't mean the polling might be wrong
    #
    Rule 1,... don't trust any poll about anything, period.
    Unless it's a CCHQ private poll! Gold Standard!
    Conversely, IOS's feel for the Labour ground game that is so" utterly brilliant that he cannot talk about it " falls in to IOSIC category (IOS is crap)
    Titter. Has he logged in since?
    No idea but it makes me laugh when I think about it.. and Ed writing his speech about his moral right to be PM.. That really cracks me up (see Toenails article on current D Mail website.)

    "Away from the cameras, Ed Miliband and his aides were still working on a speech he planned to deliver, claiming he had the moral right to become Prime Minister since the Tories had not won an outright majority"

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3199644/100-days-changed-doyen-political-rune-readers-compelling-dissection-seismic-shift.html#ixzz3j5StaAsZ
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    Disraeli said:

    I fully agree with Nicola Sturgeon's comment:
    “if in Scotland we faced exit from the EU, effectively against our will – something which the polling suggests could happen – it would not be at all surprising if that caused a swell of demand for a further independence referendum.”

    I understand her anguish that Scotland may find itself outvoted by the other nations of the Union, and having decisions foisted on them for which Scotland has not voted.

    Well she'd better get used to it - if Scotland does indeed join the EU post independence then she'll find this sort of situation cropping up quite a lot.

    I think we should give Sturgeon her desired block on the EU referendum... but only as long as the Orkney & Shetlands Islands get a similar block on the next Scottish indyref.
    Why not each constituent county of Scotland?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,684
    Cyclefree said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Slightly O/T

    I saw a disturbing piece on Countryfile yesterday. Apparently, there's a bill going through Holyrood to reduce the ownership rights of Scottish landowners - opening the doors for a land grab a la Zimbabwe.

    My friend who has a small island just off Harris (nothing massive - he bought it for about £2m a few years ago after he sold his company) is spitting about it. There's a real risk that he could lose his holiday home, despite the fact that he has invested in it, and created employment for a dozen people there.
    Rubbish, it is only aimed at selfish rich tw**s that treat locals etc like dirt. Typical greedy Tory gits, 432 rats own more than half of Scotland, it is a scandal. If you chum is in any way decent he has nothing to fear, if he is your usual Tory **se then the sooner he is ousted the better.
    He's a Kiwi; his wife's an Iraqi-Cannuk who's been holidaying in Harris for 35 years.

    But he's still worried. He may have "nothing to fear" but under the rules as drafted the island he loves could be taken away from him.
    The rules will be very sensible and any good land owner will have nothing to fear. It is the small minority of bad ones that will be affected as they should be.
    What does this new law say? I've only dimly heard about it.
    still in consultation
    https://consult.scotland.gov.uk/land-reform-and-tenancy-unit/land-reform-scotland
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    ydoethur said:

    Disraeli said:

    I fully agree with Nicola Sturgeon's comment:
    “if in Scotland we faced exit from the EU, effectively against our will – something which the polling suggests could happen – it would not be at all surprising if that caused a swell of demand for a further independence referendum.”

    I understand her anguish that Scotland may find itself outvoted by the other nations of the Union, and having decisions foisted on them for which Scotland has not voted.

    Well she'd better get used to it - if Scotland does indeed join the EU post independence then she'll find this sort of situation cropping up quite a lot.

    I think we should give Sturgeon her desired block on the EU referendum... but only as long as the Orkney & Shetlands Islands get a similar block on the next Scottish indyref.
    The 1979 referendum did of course have a sort of blocker clause - not just 50% of those voting, but a minimum of 40% of those entitled to vote. If Cameron wanted to be really awkward in the event of the second referendum, that is one provision that could be brought back and might be tricky to argue against (given the recent rejection in a previous referendum and the importance of the issue).
    If there's one thing that should be changed, it should be allowing people Scottish-born, or with Scottish parents or grandparents, in the rest of the UK to vote.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,684
    calum said:

    With SLAB about to erupt into open warfare with Glasgow SLAB led by Neil Findlay doing battle with Edinburgh SLAB led by Kezia Dugdale, it was therefore no surprise to see that Ruth Davidson has some problems internally as well:

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13599934.Tory_leader_Davidson_loses_chief_of_staff_as_election_looms/

    I fear Ruth D's Edinburgh move could yet be her undoing, unless she can get 1st place on the Tories Lothian List, she won't be guaranteed a seat. As far as I can tell the 2 existing Lothian List Tory MSPs are standing again. It would be interesting to know how List positions are determined - Lothian Tory membership vote (unlikely) or darkened committee room in Scottish Tory HQ with Ruth chairing the meeting.

    Latter for sure
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,684
    watford30 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Slightly O/T

    I saw a disturbing piece on Countryfile yesterday. Apparently, there's a bill going through Holyrood to reduce the ownership rights of Scottish landowners - opening the doors for a land grab a la Zimbabwe.

    My friend who has a small island just off Harris (nothing massive - he bought it for about £2m a few years ago after he sold his company) is spitting about it. There's a real risk that he could lose his holiday home, despite the fact that he has invested in it, and created employment for a dozen people there.
    Rubbish, it is only aimed at selfish rich tw**s that treat locals etc like dirt. Typical greedy Tory gits, 432 rats own more than half of Scotland, it is a scandal. If you chum is in any way decent he has nothing to fear, if he is your usual Tory **se then the sooner he is ousted the better.
    He's a Kiwi; his wife's an Iraqi-Cannuk who's been holidaying in Harris for 35 years.

    But he's still worried. He may have "nothing to fear" but under the rules as drafted the island he loves could be taken away from him.
    The rules will be very sensible and any good land owner will have nothing to fear. It is the small minority of bad ones that will be affected as they should be.
    English = Bad.

    Everyone else = Good.

    usual tripe from you
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: Straw in the wind? Understand Corbyn camp little alarmed by canvassing figures from Unite affiliates. Not the big lead they were expecting.

    It is hard to believe he could have gained as massive a lead as it appears, even as bad as the others have been, and there will be plenty of posturing on social media and a bandwagon effect. But could all the other indicators really be far enough out that he won't win?
    You don't mean the polling might be wrong
    #
    Rule 1,... don't trust any poll about anything, period.
    Unless it's a CCHQ private poll! Gold Standard!
    Conversely, IOS's feel for the Labour ground game that is so" utterly brilliant that he cannot talk about it " falls in to IOSIC category (IOS is crap)
    Titter. Has he logged in since?
    No idea but it makes me laugh when I think about it.. and Ed writing his speech about his moral right to be PM.. That really cracks me up (see Toenails article on current D Mail website.)

    "Away from the cameras, Ed Miliband and his aides were still working on a speech he planned to deliver, claiming he had the moral right to become Prime Minister since the Tories had not won an outright majority"

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3199644/100-days-changed-doyen-political-rune-readers-compelling-dissection-seismic-shift.html#ixzz3j5StaAsZ
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
    Where's scrapheap, sounds like we need to fire up the election results show for a recap!!
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    Agreed. As I understand the rules, if you lose your home to build an airport or whatever, normally you get market value + 20% for inconvenience.

    Once again, one has to be gobsmacked by the sheer ignorance of someone who was an MP for 13 years, and who presumably attended debates and voted in matters involving compulsory purchase. It's perhaps a bit unfair to pick on Nick, since I imagine nearly all Labour MPs, and perhaps some MPs of other parties, were and are equally ignorant. Even so, surely anyone even vaguely associated with lawmaking and public policy should have at least a cursory acquaintance with compulsory purchase.

    For the record, you get (in theory) only the market value, and zero compensation for the inconvenience and hassle of having your home confiscated. You are also unlikely to be able to recover the full cost of ancillary expenses, for example the inevitable legal fees. The net result is that you lose out, sometimes very substantially, if you happen to be the innocent victim of some local authority or central government compulsory purchase diktat.

    This is a disgrace IMO - a blot on the UK. Some other countries do provide an uplift on the valuation, but the UK doesn't.

    An even bigger disgrace is that those whose homes are blighted by a development, but don't actually get their land grabbed, often get not a penny.

    My own view is that, as Cyclefree says, this meanness is counter-productive, and that it would be cheaper in the long term to pay more so that homeowners are not so hugely incentivised to do everything in their power to resist each and every compulsory purchase order.
    spot on Mr N.

    But I can't see this govt. grasping that nettle; I hope I'm wrong.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,769
    SeanT said:

    Nice joke on Twitter.


    @drcromarty
    I've got a brand new Corbyn harvester.
    It's 2000 people in Mao jackets, with sickles, in a field.

    Will these collective jokes about agriculture start a Cultural Revolution?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,684

    The message that is coming out of Scotland re Land Reform is loud and clear.. "Invest here at your peril"..

    Carpetbaggers no longer welcome to come and rob us you mean
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,769
    edited August 2015

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: Straw in the wind? Understand Corbyn camp little alarmed by canvassing figures from Unite affiliates. Not the big lead they were expecting.

    It is hard to believe he could have gained as massive a lead as it appears, even as bad as the others have been, and there will be plenty of posturing on social media and a bandwagon effect. But could all the other indicators really be far enough out that he won't win?
    You don't mean the polling might be wrong
    #
    Rule 1,... don't trust any poll about anything, period.
    Unless it's a CCHQ private poll! Gold Standard!
    Conversely, IOS's feel for the Labour ground game that is so" utterly brilliant that he cannot talk about it " falls in to IOSIC category (IOS is crap)
    Titter. Has he logged in since?
    No idea but it makes me laugh when I think about it.. and Ed writing his speech about his moral right to be PM.. That really cracks me up (see Toenails article on current D Mail website.)

    "Away from the cameras, Ed Miliband and his aides were still working on a speech he planned to deliver, claiming he had the moral right to become Prime Minister since the Tories had not won an outright majority"

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3199644/100-days-changed-doyen-political-rune-readers-compelling-dissection-seismic-shift.html#ixzz3j5StaAsZ
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
    If you want real amusement, check out the 1992 election results coverage. Early on, before the results were known, they had a very arrogant young Labour economics spokesman on who dogmatically insisted for about five minutes that because the Conservatives had lost their overall majority, they should resign at once because they had clearly lost the confidence of the British people and it was Labour's turn to govern.

    Of course, 18 years later the arrogant young economics spokesman took an ever so slightly different view when Labour were absolutely hammered in a general election and turned a majority of 60 into a very bad second place...
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    glw said:

    I'm not sure why having two codes printed next to each other is superior to one code - surely printing one on each side of the paper - or on a separate sheet - would make more sense?

    Just a guess, but I don't think it is to do with security, but to help reduce errors. You are probably slightly less likely to enter two codes incorrectly, even if checksums are used, than one code of essentially the same length.

    I think it is likely that one code is the identifier of the person (unique ID assigned to them), and the other is a PIN number to provide security.

    The same as using a username/password combo for a web site, but with auto-generated numbers.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Very odd — there are now more men than women in Sweden according to the latest data. Usually in developed countries it's the other way round.

    http://www.thelocal.se/20150817/men-outstrip-women-as-sweden-population-booms
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: Straw in the wind? Understand Corbyn camp little alarmed by canvassing figures from Unite affiliates. Not the big lead they were expecting.

    It is hard to believe he could have gained as massive a lead as it appears, even as bad as the others have been, and there will be plenty of posturing on social media and a bandwagon effect. But could all the other indicators really be far enough out that he won't win?
    You don't mean the polling might be wrong
    #
    Rule 1,... don't trust any poll about anything, period.
    Unless it's a CCHQ private poll! Gold Standard!
    Conversely, IOS's feel for the Labour ground game that is so" utterly brilliant that he cannot talk about it " falls in to IOSIC category (IOS is crap)
    Titter. Has he logged in since?
    No idea but it makes me laugh when I think about it.. and Ed writing his speech about his moral right to be PM.. That really cracks me up (see Toenails article on current D Mail website.)

    "Away from the cameras, Ed Miliband and his aides were still working on a speech he planned to deliver, claiming he had the moral right to become Prime Minister since the Tories had not won an outright majority"

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3199644/100-days-changed-doyen-political-rune-readers-compelling-dissection-seismic-shift.html#ixzz3j5StaAsZ
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
    If you want real amusement, check out the 1992 election results coverage. Early on, before the results were known, they had a very arrogant young Labour economics spokesman on who dogmatically insisted for about five minutes that because the Conservatives had lost their overall majority, they should resign at once because they had clearly lost the confidence of the British people and it was Labour's turn to govern.

    Of course, 18 years later the arrogant young economics spokesman took an ever so slightly different view...
    Who was that then? I think AndyJS uploaded those 92 videos. Another favorite of mine.
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Liz is no longer a Tory, according to some.

    Dan Hodges retweeted
    Lyuben Vachkov ‏@VLubev
    @JohnRentoul @johnmcternan @DPJHodges http://www.lbc.co.uk/rmt-boss-with-george-galloway-watch-live-from-1230-114715

    RMT Boss Slams Corbyn Rivals: "Liz Should Join Ukip"
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,769

    glw said:

    I'm not sure why having two codes printed next to each other is superior to one code - surely printing one on each side of the paper - or on a separate sheet - would make more sense?

    Just a guess, but I don't think it is to do with security, but to help reduce errors. You are probably slightly less likely to enter two codes incorrectly, even if checksums are used, than one code of essentially the same length.

    I think it is likely that one code is the identifier of the person (unique ID assigned to them), and the other is a PIN number to provide security.

    The same as using a username/password combo for a web site, but with auto-generated numbers.

    Yes, but they're usually sent separately. If a PIN is with a user ID, it doesn't provide any security at all. When I sign up for anything that requires such things, the ID is in the welcome pack, the PIN is sent a day later in a plain envelope (so it doesn't attract attention while going through the postal system).

    A phrase about good times in breweries springs to mind, it really does.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited August 2015
    mg...Are you saying that property owners who may not be of Scottish origin are Carpetbaggers.....that is the message that is coming out of Scotland "If we don't like you we will steal your legitimately owned property"...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,769
    RobD said:

    ydoethur said:


    If you want real amusement, check out the 1992 election results coverage. Early on, before the results were known, they had a very arrogant young Labour economics spokesman on who dogmatically insisted for about five minutes that because the Conservatives had lost their overall majority, they should resign at once because they had clearly lost the confidence of the British people and it was Labour's turn to govern.

    Of course, 18 years later the arrogant young economics spokesman took an ever so slightly different view...

    Who was that then? I think AndyJS uploaded those 92 videos. Another favorite of mine.
    It was the Labour spokesman on Trade and Industry. Dour, earnest young man he was. Believed in things like post neoclassical endogenous growth theory and the end of boom and bust. Now a carpet salesman, or at least, spends much of his time wearing out the carpet.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    There has been a considered decision. It was perfectly right and proper to have a referendum id the scottish parliament asked for one. It was always going to be inevitable after devolution.
    In fact all the economic arguments for independence have gone backwards since then.
    Cameron has done his duty and given the SNP majority in Edinburgh their referendum. I do not see why the issue should be readdressed again on some transient whim. Not least because such endless carping and campaigning and uncertainty will distract from other important UK issues.
    The only thing that has changed is a collapse by Labour which the SNP are not tempted to take advantage of.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    SeanT said:

    JEO said:

    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    More trouble in Sweden, following on from the IKEA knife murders a few days ago:

    "Three people have been taken to hospital after being stabbed in central Norrköping on Monday afternoon, according to Swedish newspaper Norrköpings Tidningar. A 24-year-old man has been arrested."

    http://www.thelocal.se/20150817/three-injured-in-stabbing-spree-in-norrkping

    According to some moderately persuasive rumours, the IKEA murders weren't just stabbings, they were "beheadings".

    But we don't know for sure, because no one is saying.

    It certainly sounds like a suicidal jihadi attack to me: apparently the Eritrean suspect turned the knife on himself after the decapitations.
    I linked a story earlier from a mainstream source saying all the people involved knew each other.
    I think you're misreading that report (the one from Israel?)

    The victims certainly knew each other - they were mother and son. The third injured person was the murderer, who tried to stab himself to death after the crime, and failed. He was an Eritrean asylum seeker, and, as far as I can ascertain, was totally unknown to those he killed.

    But I could be wrong, not least cause the media confusion over this is so deep and strange.
    I was talking about the one from Yahoo, but yes, you're correct: I was misreading it.

    http://news.yahoo.com/three-injured-knife-attack-ikea-store-sweden-report-123104838--finance.html



  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    ydoethur said:


    If you want real amusement, check out the 1992 election results coverage. Early on, before the results were known, they had a very arrogant young Labour economics spokesman on who dogmatically insisted for about five minutes that because the Conservatives had lost their overall majority, they should resign at once because they had clearly lost the confidence of the British people and it was Labour's turn to govern.

    Of course, 18 years later the arrogant young economics spokesman took an ever so slightly different view...

    Who was that then? I think AndyJS uploaded those 92 videos. Another favorite of mine.
    It was the Labour spokesman on Trade and Industry. Dour, earnest young man he was. Believed in things like post neoclassical endogenous growth theory and the end of boom and bust. Now a carpet salesman, or at least, spends much of his time wearing out the carpet.
    Had to check on the old Wiki. It was our friend Gordon!!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited August 2015
    "For the first time since the mid-1700's there are now more men than women in Sweden, according to fresh figures from Statistics Sweden.

    There are many reasons as to why men are now in majority, according to the report. More boys are born in Sweden, the average life expectancy of males has gone up and it's mostly men who move here from other countries."


    http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=6127590

    Compare this to the UK where in the 2011 census there were 1.2 million more women than men in the country, 32.2 million vs 31 million.

    http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/census/2011-census/population-and-household-estimates-for-the-united-kingdom/stb-2011-census--population-estimates-for-the-united-kingdom.html
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    mg...Are you saying that property owners who may not be of Scottish origin are Carpetbaggers.....that is the message that is coming out of Scotland "If we don't like you we will steal your legitimately owned property"...

    One can imagine what a mess the Scottish countryside would be in, without these 'carpetbaggers' and their unwanted investment.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    AndyJS said:

    Very odd — there are now more men than women in Sweden according to the latest data. Usually in developed countries it's the other way round.

    http://www.thelocal.se/20150817/men-outstrip-women-as-sweden-population-booms

    I imagine that is because they let in large numbers of asylum seekers. Most of the asylum seekers that make it to Europe are young, males, because they have more resources to pay for the trip and are more aggressive in the competitive space on boats.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    I've done a twitter search for labour ballots to nick, nothing coming up. I suspect the number posting their full security details will be very few tbh.

    More likely reinforces the impression of piss ups and breweries rather than affecting the result.

    If anyone does find a ballot can they at least stick Cooper above Andy if they aren't going to use it for Jezza.

    Ta.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    Disraeli said:

    I fully agree with Nicola Sturgeon's comment:
    “if in Scotland we faced exit from the EU, effectively against our will – something which the polling suggests could happen – it would not be at all surprising if that caused a swell of demand for a further independence referendum.”

    I understand her anguish that Scotland may find itself outvoted by the other nations of the Union, and having decisions foisted on them for which Scotland has not voted.

    Well she'd better get used to it - if Scotland does indeed join the EU post independence then she'll find this sort of situation cropping up quite a lot.

    I think we should give Sturgeon her desired block on the EU referendum... but only as long as the Orkney & Shetlands Islands get a similar block on the next Scottish indyref.
    The comment from Sturgeon is absurd. On balance I would expect the vote to be YES anyway, but the fact is we are one country and no one region has a veto. If and when the SNP can sustain itself over 20 years then it cam try again for a referendum.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    Thank you Malcom G and Richard Nabavi.

    Re the compensation rules: those are a disgrace. No-one forced to leave a home by a development should be out of pocket and there should be a generous uplift to minimise objections and time. And compensation should be extended to those affected in a reasonably wide area round about the development.

    No point relaxing the planning laws if this is not done. I hope some Tory SpAd is taking notice.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    OT I recently found Kevin Pietesen's book and bought it for a quid.
    If what he says is true, especially about Prior and the Head Coaches, then its a miracle we ever won anything.

    What did he say about Prior?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,963

    Comical. Virtue signalling rebounding...

    Jim Waterson ‏@jimwaterson

    Greetings from Iowa, where it took me 5mins on my phone to take control of a load of strangers' Labour ballot papers: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/vote-early-vote-often-vote-using-someones-instagram

    Just when you thought that Labour's embarrassment might be coming to end, with people actually casting their vote t get this thing over and done with. And to think, these same folks were in charge of our democratic process for 13 of the past 18 years....
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,778
    JEO said:

    AndyJS said:

    Very odd — there are now more men than women in Sweden according to the latest data. Usually in developed countries it's the other way round.

    http://www.thelocal.se/20150817/men-outstrip-women-as-sweden-population-booms

    I imagine that is because they let in large numbers of asylum seekers. Most of the asylum seekers that make it to Europe are young, males, because they have more resources to pay for the trip and are more aggressive in the competitive space on boats.
    Men have always been more likely to emigrate: the ratios on boats to the new world were 5 or 6 to 1
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    Not that it will make any difference to the true believers but these may be of interest to others:-

    http://hurryupharry.org/2015/08/13/jeremy-corbyn-crap-liar/

    and

    http://hurryupharry.org/2015/08/17/the-left-wing-case-against-corbyn/

    Oh - and Happy Birthday to Rob Crosby!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,044

    Comical. Virtue signalling rebounding...

    Jim Waterson ‏@jimwaterson

    Greetings from Iowa, where it took me 5mins on my phone to take control of a load of strangers' Labour ballot papers: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/vote-early-vote-often-vote-using-someones-instagram

    Just when you thought that Labour's embarrassment might be coming to end, with people actually casting their vote t get this thing over and done with. And to think, these same folks were in charge of our democratic process for 13 of the past 18 years....
    Can't see many votes being lost this way. Of course, if someone wins by 100 or 200 votes...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    rcs1000 said:

    JEO said:

    AndyJS said:

    Very odd — there are now more men than women in Sweden according to the latest data. Usually in developed countries it's the other way round.

    http://www.thelocal.se/20150817/men-outstrip-women-as-sweden-population-booms

    I imagine that is because they let in large numbers of asylum seekers. Most of the asylum seekers that make it to Europe are young, males, because they have more resources to pay for the trip and are more aggressive in the competitive space on boats.
    Men have always been more likely to emigrate: the ratios on boats to the new world were 5 or 6 to 1
    Though interestingly from Ireland during and after the Famine, women outnumbered men.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    rcs1000 said:

    JEO said:

    AndyJS said:

    Very odd — there are now more men than women in Sweden according to the latest data. Usually in developed countries it's the other way round.

    http://www.thelocal.se/20150817/men-outstrip-women-as-sweden-population-booms

    I imagine that is because they let in large numbers of asylum seekers. Most of the asylum seekers that make it to Europe are young, males, because they have more resources to pay for the trip and are more aggressive in the competitive space on boats.
    Men have always been more likely to emigrate: the ratios on boats to the new world were 5 or 6 to 1
    Completely the wrong ratio to kick start a new colony!
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    AndyJS said:

    OT I recently found Kevin Pietesen's book and bought it for a quid.
    If what he says is true, especially about Prior and the Head Coaches, then its a miracle we ever won anything.

    What did he say about Prior?
    AndyJS said:

    OT I recently found Kevin Pietesen's book and bought it for a quid.
    If what he says is true, especially about Prior and the Head Coaches, then its a miracle we ever won anything.

    What did he say about Prior?
    Where do you want me to start.. it was ALL BAD.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,778
    As an aside, I'm currently in the US, and several people have asked me if I've listened to the NPR program on Calais and the European migrant crisis...

    Has anyone listened to it?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    @antifrank, another excellent & very interesting article. Many thanks once again. You seem to be in a very prolific phase at the moment!
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    Comical. Virtue signalling rebounding...

    Jim Waterson ‏@jimwaterson

    Greetings from Iowa, where it took me 5mins on my phone to take control of a load of strangers' Labour ballot papers: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/vote-early-vote-often-vote-using-someones-instagram

    Just when you thought that Labour's embarrassment might be coming to end, with people actually casting their vote t get this thing over and done with. And to think, these same folks were in charge of our democratic process for 13 of the past 18 years....
    Er wasn't Cameron claiming to be the heir to Blair ?

    If you're laughing now, why did you want to copy them then ?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    AnneJGP said:

    @antifrank, another excellent & very interesting article. Many thanks once again. You seem to be in a very prolific phase at the moment!

    Very much seconded. Antifrank puts most paid political commentators in the dead tree press to shame with his thoughtful analyses.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    SeanT said:

    JEO said:

    SeanT said:

    JEO said:

    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    More trouble in Sweden, following on from the IKEA knife murders a few days ago:

    "Three people have been taken to hospital after being stabbed in central Norrköping on Monday afternoon, according to Swedish newspaper Norrköpings Tidningar. A 24-year-old man has been arrested."

    http://www.thelocal.se/20150817/three-injured-in-stabbing-spree-in-norrkping

    According to some moderately persuasive rumours, the IKEA murders weren't just stabbings, they were "beheadings".

    But we don't know for sure, because no one is saying.

    It certainly sounds like a suicidal jihadi attack to me: apparently the Eritrean suspect turned the knife on himself after the decapitations.
    I linked a story earlier from a mainstream source saying all the people involved knew each other.
    I think you're misreading that report (the one from Israel?)

    The victims certainly knew each other - they were mother and son. The third injured person was the murderer, who tried to stab himself to death after the crime, and failed. He was an Eritrean asylum seeker, and, as far as I can ascertain, was totally unknown to those he killed.

    But I could be wrong, not least cause the media confusion over this is so deep and strange.
    I was talking about the one from Yahoo, but yes, you're correct: I was misreading it.

    http://news.yahoo.com/three-injured-knife-attack-ikea-store-sweden-report-123104838--finance.html



    Swedish media are heavily hinting that there was a beheading. "Chopped to death" is the phrase used here, in a reliable newspaper.

    http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article21249398.ab

    Chopped to death. Not a quick stab to the stomach.

    On examination Sweden is even more crippled by political correctness than the UK. Swedish politicians and police are refusing to offer any opinions on the crime, refused to discuss beheadings, are refusing to discuss terrorist motives, are blaming conditions in asylum camps causing "craziness", and are otherwise "tightlipped" (AFP). They have also suppressed apparent footage of the crime, because it might be exploited by "dark forces".

    Er, what? How much darker can you get than possibly covering up a beheading in IKEA? Aren't Swedes entitled to know the truth?




    I agree that transparency is needed. I don´t know the facts. But I can see why footage of such a horrible crime might be suppressed, out of consideration for the victims´family, apart from anything else.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,684

    Disraeli said:

    I fully agree with Nicola Sturgeon's comment:
    “if in Scotland we faced exit from the EU, effectively against our will – something which the polling suggests could happen – it would not be at all surprising if that caused a swell of demand for a further independence referendum.”

    I understand her anguish that Scotland may find itself outvoted by the other nations of the Union, and having decisions foisted on them for which Scotland has not voted.

    Well she'd better get used to it - if Scotland does indeed join the EU post independence then she'll find this sort of situation cropping up quite a lot.

    I think we should give Sturgeon her desired block on the EU referendum... but only as long as the Orkney & Shetlands Islands get a similar block on the next Scottish indyref.
    Now the real fruitcakes are coming out
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    SeanT said:

    JEO said:

    SeanT said:

    JEO said:

    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    More trouble in Sweden, following on from the IKEA knife murders a few days ago:

    "Three people have been taken to hospital after being stabbed in central Norrköping on Monday afternoon, according to Swedish newspaper Norrköpings Tidningar. A 24-year-old man has been arrested."

    http://www.thelocal.se/20150817/three-injured-in-stabbing-spree-in-norrkping

    According to some moderately persuasive rumours, the IKEA murders weren't just stabbings, they were "beheadings".

    But we don't know for sure, because no one is saying.

    It certainly sounds like a suicidal jihadi attack to me: apparently the Eritrean suspect turned the knife on himself after the decapitations.
    I linked a story earlier from a mainstream source saying all the people involved knew each other.
    I think you're misreading that report (the one from Israel?)

    The victims certainly knew each other - they were mother and son. The third injured person was the murderer, who tried to stab himself to death after the crime, and failed. He was an Eritrean asylum seeker, and, as far as I can ascertain, was totally unknown to those he killed.

    But I could be wrong, not least cause the media confusion over this is so deep and strange.
    I was talking about the one from Yahoo, but yes, you're correct: I was misreading it.

    http://news.yahoo.com/three-injured-knife-attack-ikea-store-sweden-report-123104838--finance.html



    Swedish media are heavily hinting that there was a beheading. "Chopped to death" is the phrase used here, in a reliable newspaper.

    http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article21249398.ab

    Chopped to death. Not a quick stab to the stomach.

    On examination Sweden is even more crippled by political correctness than the UK. Swedish politicians and police are refusing to offer any opinions on the crime, refused to discuss beheadings, are refusing to discuss terrorist motives, are blaming conditions in asylum camps causing "craziness", and are otherwise "tightlipped" (AFP). They have also suppressed apparent footage of the crime, because it might be exploited by "dark forces".

    Er, what? How much darker can you get than possibly covering up a beheading in IKEA? Aren't Swedes entitled to know the truth?




    Similar, to the BBC coverage of the child who stabbed the African teacher in Bradford because he couldn't take orders from a black man and called him the N word... I just assumed it must be white on black....
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    malcolmg said:

    Disraeli said:

    I fully agree with Nicola Sturgeon's comment:
    “if in Scotland we faced exit from the EU, effectively against our will – something which the polling suggests could happen – it would not be at all surprising if that caused a swell of demand for a further independence referendum.”

    I understand her anguish that Scotland may find itself outvoted by the other nations of the Union, and having decisions foisted on them for which Scotland has not voted.

    Well she'd better get used to it - if Scotland does indeed join the EU post independence then she'll find this sort of situation cropping up quite a lot.

    I think we should give Sturgeon her desired block on the EU referendum... but only as long as the Orkney & Shetlands Islands get a similar block on the next Scottish indyref.
    Now the real fruitcakes are coming out
    Interesting that you have just appeared!
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    SeanT said:

    <
    Swedish media are heavily hinting that there was a beheading. "Chopped to death" is the phrase used here, in a reliable newspaper.

    http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article21249398.ab

    Chopped to death. Not a quick stab to the stomach.

    On examination Sweden is even more crippled by political correctness than the UK. Swedish politicians and police are refusing to offer any opinions on the crime, refused to discuss beheadings, are refusing to discuss terrorist motives, are blaming conditions in asylum camps causing "craziness", and are otherwise "tightlipped" (AFP). They have also suppressed apparent footage of the crime, because it might be exploited by "dark forces".

    Er, what? How much darker can you get than possibly covering up a beheading in IKEA? Aren't Swedes entitled to know the truth?

    Unfortunately, this is just where you get to once you stop believing in freedom of expression and information. As soon as you think the authorities should prevent certain opinions (even if they are moronically false ones) being expressed, then the next step is to prevent correct information being disseminated in case the public form the wrong opinions from them.

    I agree with you: if the Swedish authorities are deliberately covering up a terrorist attack, then it is completely outrageous.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,684
    watford30 said:

    mg...Are you saying that property owners who may not be of Scottish origin are Carpetbaggers.....that is the message that is coming out of Scotland "If we don't like you we will steal your legitimately owned property"...

    One can imagine what a mess the Scottish countryside would be in, without these 'carpetbaggers' and their unwanted investment.
    You dullard, the whole point of the bill is to get rid of those who just leave the place to go to rack and ruin and abuse the tenants etc.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    malcolmg said:

    watford30 said:

    mg...Are you saying that property owners who may not be of Scottish origin are Carpetbaggers.....that is the message that is coming out of Scotland "If we don't like you we will steal your legitimately owned property"...

    One can imagine what a mess the Scottish countryside would be in, without these 'carpetbaggers' and their unwanted investment.
    You dullard, the whole point of the bill is to get rid of those who just leave the place to go to rack and ruin and abuse the tenants etc.
    Glasgow city council must be bricking it.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    JEO said:

    SeanT said:

    JEO said:

    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    More trouble in Sweden, following on from the IKEA knife murders a few days ago:

    "Three people have been taken to hospital after being stabbed in central Norrköping on Monday afternoon, according to Swedish newspaper Norrköpings Tidningar. A 24-year-old man has been arrested."

    http://www.thelocal.se/20150817/three-injured-in-stabbing-spree-in-norrkping

    According to some moderately persuasive rumours, the IKEA murders weren't just stabbings, they were "beheadings".

    But we don't know for sure, because no one is saying.

    It certainly sounds like a suicidal jihadi attack to me: apparently the Eritrean suspect turned the knife on himself after the decapitations.
    I linked a story earlier from a mainstream source saying all the people involved knew each other.
    I think you're misreading that report (the one from Israel?)

    The victims certainly knew each other - they were mother and son. The third injured person was the murderer, who tried to stab himself to death after the crime, and failed. He was an Eritrean asylum seeker, and, as far as I can ascertain, was totally unknown to those he killed.

    But I could be wrong, not least cause the media confusion over this is so deep and strange.
    I was talking about the one from Yahoo, but yes, you're correct: I was misreading it.

    http://news.yahoo.com/three-injured-knife-attack-ikea-store-sweden-report-123104838--finance.html
    Swedish media are heavily hinting that there was a beheading. "Chopped to death" is the phrase used here, in a reliable newspaper.
    I agree that transparency is needed. I don´t know the facts. But I can see why footage of such a horrible crime might be suppressed, out of consideration for the victims´family, apart from anything else.
    You can always blur out the actual attack itself, while showing the video of the perpetrators. If there are terrorist attacks on civilians in Swedish shopping malls, Swedish people have a right to know. It is terrible if Swedish authorities are deliberately hiding a threat to their own population out of political correctness.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,769

    malcolmg said:

    watford30 said:

    mg...Are you saying that property owners who may not be of Scottish origin are Carpetbaggers.....that is the message that is coming out of Scotland "If we don't like you we will steal your legitimately owned property"...

    One can imagine what a mess the Scottish countryside would be in, without these 'carpetbaggers' and their unwanted investment.
    You dullard, the whole point of the bill is to get rid of those who just leave the place to go to rack and ruin and abuse the tenants etc.
    Glasgow city council must be bricking it.
    I gather most people expect the current (Labour) council to be got rid of in toto next year anyway!
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    malcolmg said:

    watford30 said:

    mg...Are you saying that property owners who may not be of Scottish origin are Carpetbaggers.....that is the message that is coming out of Scotland "If we don't like you we will steal your legitimately owned property"...

    One can imagine what a mess the Scottish countryside would be in, without these 'carpetbaggers' and their unwanted investment.
    You dullard, the whole point of the bill is to get rid of those who just leave the place to go to rack and ruin and abuse the Tennents.
    They're planning on expelling thousands of Scots then.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    watford30 said:

    mg...Are you saying that property owners who may not be of Scottish origin are Carpetbaggers.....that is the message that is coming out of Scotland "If we don't like you we will steal your legitimately owned property"...

    One can imagine what a mess the Scottish countryside would be in, without these 'carpetbaggers' and their unwanted investment.
    You dullard, the whole point of the bill is to get rid of those who just leave the place to go to rack and ruin and abuse the tenants etc.
    Glasgow city council must be bricking it.
    I gather most people expect the current (Labour) council to be got rid of in toto next year anyway!
    Is it going Tory or UKIP ?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    watford30 said:

    mg...Are you saying that property owners who may not be of Scottish origin are Carpetbaggers.....that is the message that is coming out of Scotland "If we don't like you we will steal your legitimately owned property"...

    One can imagine what a mess the Scottish countryside would be in, without these 'carpetbaggers' and their unwanted investment.
    You dullard, the whole point of the bill is to get rid of those who just leave the place to go to rack and ruin and abuse the tenants etc.
    Glasgow city council must be bricking it.
    I gather most people expect the current (Labour) council to be got rid of in toto next year anyway!
    A big ask for the Tories to gain 39 councillors, but we'll try! ;)
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Corbyn offers Burnham job as vote opens in Labour race http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4529865.ece
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    SeanT said:

    JEO said:

    SeanT said:

    JEO said:

    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    More trouble in Sweden, following on from the IKEA knife murders a few days ago:

    "Three people have been taken to hospital after being stabbed in central Norrköping on Monday afternoon, according to Swedish newspaper Norrköpings Tidningar. A 24-year-old man has been arrested."

    http://www.thelocal.se/20150817/three-injured-in-stabbing-spree-in-norrkping

    According to some moderately persuasive rumours, the IKEA murders weren't just stabbings, they were "beheadings".

    But we don't know for sure, because no one is saying.

    It certainly sounds like a suicidal jihadi attack to me: apparently the Eritrean suspect turned the knife on himself after the decapitations.
    I linked a story earlier from a mainstream source saying all the people involved knew each other.
    I think you're misreading that report (the one from Israel?)

    The victims certainly knew each other - they were mother and son. The third injured person was the murderer, who tried to stab himself to death after the crime, and failed. He was an Eritrean asylum seeker, and, as far as I can ascertain, was totally unknown to those he killed.

    But I could be wrong, not least cause the media confusion over this is so deep and strange.
    I was talking about the one from Yahoo, but yes, you're correct: I was misreading it.

    http://news.yahoo.com/three-injured-knife-attack-ikea-store-sweden-report-123104838--finance.html



    Swedish media are heavily hinting that there was a beheading. "Chopped to death" is the phrase used here, in a reliable newspaper.

    http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article21249398.ab

    Chopped to death. Not a quick stab to the stomach.

    On examination Sweden is even more crippled by political correctness than the UK. Swedish politicians and police are refusing to offer any opinions on the crime, refused to discuss beheadings, are refusing to discuss terrorist motives, are blaming conditions in asylum camps causing "craziness", and are otherwise "tightlipped" (AFP). They have also suppressed apparent footage of the crime, because it might be exploited by "dark forces".

    Er, what? How much darker can you get than possibly covering up a beheading in IKEA? Aren't Swedes entitled to know the truth?




    Swedish politicians and journalists are terrified of discussing the lack of integration within their country for fear of being called racist.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    SeanT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    JEO said:

    SeanT said:

    JEO said:

    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    More trouble in Sweden, following on from the IKEA knife murders a few days ago:

    ..

    http://www.thelocal.se/20150817/three-injured-in-stabbing-spree-in-norrkping

    ..

    It certainly sounds like a suicidal jihadi attack to me: apparently the Eritrean suspect turned the knife on himself after the decapitations.
    I linked a story earlier from a mainstream source saying all the people involved knew each other.
    I think you're misreading that report (the one from Israel?)

    ...

    But I could be wrong, not least cause the media confusion over this is so deep and strange.
    I was talking about the one from Yahoo, but yes, you're correct: I was misreading it.

    http://news.yahoo.com/three-injured-knife-attack-ikea-store-sweden-report-123104838--finance.html

    Swedish media are heavily hinting that there was a beheading. "Chopped to death" is the phrase used here, in a reliable newspaper.
    I agree that transparency is needed. I don´t know the facts. But I can see why footage of such a horrible crime might be suppressed, out of consideration for the victims´family, apart from anything else.

    Fair point. Though I remember some of us were shouted down in the same way when we asked questions about the Glasgow bin lorry crash. Bleeding hearts said "pity the poor driver's family", "he obviously had a heart attack", "why are you prying, WE DON'T NEED TO KNOW".

    Don't need to know??

    As it turns out, we did need to know: the longer this inquiry goes on the more it stinks of gross municipal incompetence, at best. And now there will be a private prosecution.
    I agree we need to know. And we need to know the cause of the driver's collapse - in the normal course of investigation. I was not aware that there was any such complaints as you suggest but I'll go along with your claims.
    I am not at all sure the prosecution were correct in not acting. I do not see it as murder, or manslaughter but there was clearly not an 'accident' - it was a man who hid his unfitness to drive. The municipal side of things is what is being protected I suspect, not the driver. I wonder if this was a private motor car - possibly a posh one - what the decision would have been.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Slightly O/T

    I saw a disturbing piece on Countryfile yesterday. Apparently, there's a bill going through Holyrood to reduce the ownership rights of Scottish landowners - opening the doors for a land grab a la Zimbabwe.

    My friend who has a small island just off Harris (nothing massive - he bought it for about £2m a few years ago after he sold his company) is spitting about it. There's a real risk that he could lose his holiday home, despite the fact that he has invested in it, and created employment for a dozen people there.
    Rubbish, it is only aimed at selfish rich tw**s that treat locals etc like dirt. Typical greedy Tory gits, 432 rats own more than half of Scotland, it is a scandal. If you chum is in any way decent he has nothing to fear, if he is your usual Tory **se then the sooner he is ousted the better.
    He's a Kiwi; his wife's an Iraqi-Cannuk who's been holidaying in Harris for 35 years.

    But he's still worried. He may have "nothing to fear" but under the rules as drafted the island he loves could be taken away from him.
    The rules will be very sensible and any good land owner will have nothing to fear. It is the small minority of bad ones that will be affected as they should be.
    How would the proposals affect them?
    The issue is who decides what a 'good landowner' is.

    At the moment if a resident decides he is a bad landowner they can go to a tribunal and has the presumption in favour of the local community getting to have the land.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,769
    edited August 2015
    Plato said:

    Corbyn offers Burnham job as vote opens in Labour race http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4529865.ece

    After his appallingly inept campaign, which keeps plumbing new depths just as we thought it had reached the nadir, Burnham should be grateful for any job more prestigious than that of cloakroom attendant at Brewer's Green.

    My old Head of Sixth, a geography and economics teacher, had a wonderfully acerbic line in reports (he'd never get away with some of the things he said now). I think this one (not for me!) would be most apt for Burnham: 'He has long ago reached rock bottom and in the only sign of industry he has shown all year, began drilling.'
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,928
    edited August 2015
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    JEO said:

    SeanT said:

    <
    Swedish media are heavily hinting that there was a beheading. "Chopped to death" is the phrase used here, in a reliable newspaper.

    http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article21249398.ab

    Chopped to death. Not a quick stab to the stomach.

    On examination Sweden is even more crippled by political correctness than the UK. Swedish politicians and police are refusing to offer any opinions on the crime, refused to discuss beheadings, are refusing to discuss terrorist motives, are blaming conditions in asylum camps causing "craziness", and are otherwise "tightlipped" (AFP). They have also suppressed apparent footage of the crime, because it might be exploited by "dark forces".

    Er, what? How much darker can you get than possibly covering up a beheading in IKEA? Aren't Swedes entitled to know the truth?

    Unfortunately, this is just where you get to once you stop believing in freedom of expression and information. As soon as you think the authorities should prevent certain opinions (even if they are moronically false ones) being expressed, then the next step is to prevent correct information being disseminated in case the public form the wrong opinions from them.

    I agree with you: if the Swedish authorities are deliberately covering up a terrorist attack, then it is completely outrageous.
    I agree. It appears not to be an organised 'terrorist' attack as such however. But an attack by a fanatic on his own whim. But that (true or not) is not the point. The truth of the event should be revealed.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Slightly O/T

    I saw a disturbing piece on Countryfile yesterday. Apparently, there's a bill going through Holyrood to reduce the ownership rights of Scottish landowners - opening the doors for a land grab a la Zimbabwe.

    My friend who has a small island just off Harris (nothing massive - he bought it for about £2m a few years ago after he sold his company) is spitting about it. There's a real risk that he could lose his holiday home, despite the fact that he has invested in it, and created employment for a dozen people there.
    Rubbish, it is only aimed at selfish rich tw**s that treat locals etc like dirt. Typical greedy Tory gits, 432 rats own more than half of Scotland, it is a scandal. If you chum is in any way decent he has nothing to fear, if he is your usual Tory **se then the sooner he is ousted the better.
    He's a Kiwi; his wife's an Iraqi-Cannuk who's been holidaying in Harris for 35 years.

    But he's still worried. He may have "nothing to fear" but under the rules as drafted the island he loves could be taken away from him.
    The rules will be very sensible and any good land owner will have nothing to fear. It is the small minority of bad ones that will be affected as they should be.
    How would the proposals affect them?
    The issue is who decides what a 'good landowner' is.

    At the moment if a resident decides he is a bad landowner they can go to a tribunal and has the presumption in favour of the local community getting to have the land.
    Bob McGabe would be proud.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,963

    Comical. Virtue signalling rebounding...

    Jim Waterson ‏@jimwaterson

    Greetings from Iowa, where it took me 5mins on my phone to take control of a load of strangers' Labour ballot papers: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/vote-early-vote-often-vote-using-someones-instagram

    Just when you thought that Labour's embarrassment might be coming to end, with people actually casting their vote t get this thing over and done with. And to think, these same folks were in charge of our democratic process for 13 of the past 18 years....
    Can't see many votes being lost this way. Of course, if someone wins by 100 or 200 votes...
    ...it will officially be the Funniest Election in the History of Democracy.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731

    JEO said:

    SeanT said:

    <
    Swedish media are heavily hinting that there was a beheading. "Chopped to death" is the phrase used here, in a reliable newspaper.

    http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article21249398.ab

    Chopped to death. Not a quick stab to the stomach.

    On examination Sweden is even more crippled by political correctness than the UK. Swedish politicians and police are refusing to offer any opinions on the crime, refused to discuss beheadings, are refusing to discuss terrorist motives, are blaming conditions in asylum camps causing "craziness", and are otherwise "tightlipped" (AFP). They have also suppressed apparent footage of the crime, because it might be exploited by "dark forces".

    Er, what? How much darker can you get than possibly covering up a beheading in IKEA? Aren't Swedes entitled to know the truth?

    Unfortunately, this is just where you get to once you stop believing in freedom of expression and information. As soon as you think the authorities should prevent certain opinions (even if they are moronically false ones) being expressed, then the next step is to prevent correct information being disseminated in case the public form the wrong opinions from them.

    I agree with you: if the Swedish authorities are deliberately covering up a terrorist attack, then it is completely outrageous.
    I agree. It appears not to be an organised 'terrorist' attack as such however. But an attack by a fanatic on his own whim. But that (true or not) is not the point. The truth of the event should be revealed.
    Attacks by fanatics on their own is the current tactic ISIS are suggesting their supporters use
  • rullkorullko Posts: 161
    Plato said:

    Corbyn offers Burnham job as vote opens in Labour race http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4529865.ece

    Didn't Burnham already rule out joining JC's cabinet? Or has he changed his mind for the billionth time?

    On-topic, I'd be amazed if the SNP go with anything other than a conditional commitment to a referendum. Many supporters won't be happy, but they don't really have anywhere else to go. All the other options have huge downsides.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    SeanT said:


    It's not just Sweden (where we still don't know whether it was terrorism or not). In France the authorities tried to deny a link to terrorism ("we're looking at mental illness") when a Muslim man shouting Allahu Ahkbar drove a car into crowds of shoppers.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dijon-attack-car-driver-mows-down-pedestrians-in-eastern-france-invoking-allah-9939181.html

    Course there was no link to terrorism. France has no history of this.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1508811/latest-in-a-series-of-attacks-in-france

    Seems to me there is a Europe-wide policy of playing down ALL these attacks, Sweden is just the latest, and maybe the weirdest.

    I am very thankful for the internet. It means that we can hear about all the things going on that the authorities and media historically covered up. That at least allows those of us who pay attention to form opinions outside those desired by the establishment.
  • Stephen Bush ‏@stephenkb

    People who defeated Ed Miliband: SNP, Ukip, Respect and the Conservatives.
    People defeated by Ed Miliband: David Miliband.

    My knowledge of Bradford is a little hazy, but didn't Galloway LOSE Bradford West?
    He won it before he lost it.
    But he lost against an Ed-led Labour in 2015!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Cyclefree said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Cyclefree said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Slightly O/T

    I saw a disturbing piece on Countryfile yesterday. Apparently, there's a bill going through Holyrood to reduce the ownership rights of Scottish landowners - opening the doors for a land grab a la Zimbabwe.

    My friend who has a small island just off Harris (nothing massive - he bought it for about £2m a few years ago after he sold his company) is spitting about it. There's a real risk that he could lose his holiday home, despite the fact that he has invested in it, and created employment for a dozen people there.
    Rubbish, it is only aimed at selfish rich tw**s that treat locals etc like dirt. Typical greedy Tory gits, 432 rats own more than half of Scotland, it is a scandal. If you chum is in any way decent he has nothing to fear, if he is your usual Tory **se then the sooner he is ousted the better.
    He's a Kiwi; his wife's an Iraqi-Cannuk who's been holidaying in Harris for 35 years.

    But he's still worried. He may have "nothing to fear" but under the rules as drafted the island he loves could be taken away from him.
    The rules will be very sensible and any good land owner will have nothing to fear. It is the small minority of bad ones that will be affected as they should be.
    What does this new law say? I've only dimly heard about it.
    In case you're really interested :grin:

    https://basedrones.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/land-reform-scotland-bill.pdf
    Thank you. That'll teach me to ask!

    Section 47 is important.

    Ministers get to decide on the transfer of land if they deem it in the public interest; that the sustainable development of the land will be enhanced by the transfer; or if the community will be harmed by the transfer not occurring.

    Can you see why my mate is nervous?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,769
    rullko said:

    Plato said:

    Corbyn offers Burnham job as vote opens in Labour race http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4529865.ece

    Didn't Burnham already rule out joining JC's cabinet? Or has he changed his mind for the billionth time?
    If he's changed his mind, at least that's evidence he hasn't lost it.

    As recently as a week ago, I still thought Burnham was Labour's best candidate of the four on offer. If anything the more frightening thought now is that he may still be - it's just not clear-cut any more.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,684

    malcolmg said:

    watford30 said:

    mg...Are you saying that property owners who may not be of Scottish origin are Carpetbaggers.....that is the message that is coming out of Scotland "If we don't like you we will steal your legitimately owned property"...

    One can imagine what a mess the Scottish countryside would be in, without these 'carpetbaggers' and their unwanted investment.
    You dullard, the whole point of the bill is to get rid of those who just leave the place to go to rack and ruin and abuse the tenants etc.
    Glasgow city council must be bricking it.
    LOL, they are worse than Dick Turpin , sinking labour ship though and making Mathieson walk the plank. The East versus west battle will be interesting now that the eastern Blairites are in charge.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,684

    SeanT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    JEO said:

    SeanT said:

    JEO said:

    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    More trouble in Sweden, following on from the IKEA knife murders a few days ago:

    ..

    http://www.thelocal.se/20150817/three-injured-in-stabbing-spree-in-norrkping

    ..

    It certainly sounds like a suicidal jihadi attack to me: apparently the Eritrean suspect turned the knife on himself after the decapitations.
    I linked a story earlier from a mainstream source saying all the people involved knew each other.
    I think you're misreading that report (the one from Israel?)

    ...

    But I could be wrong, not least cause the media confusion over this is so deep and strange.
    I was talking about the one from Yahoo, but yes, you're correct: I was misreading it.

    http://news.yahoo.com/three-injured-knife-attack-ikea-store-sweden-report-123104838--finance.html

    Swedish media are heavily hinting that there was a beheading. "Chopped to death" is the phrase used here, in a reliable newspaper.
    I agree that transparency is needed. I don´t know the facts. But I can see why footage of such a horrible crime might be suppressed, out of consideration for the victims´family, apart from anything else.

    Fair point. Though I remember some of us were shouted down in the same way when we asked questions about the Glasgow bin lorry crash. Bleeding hearts said "pity the poor driver's family", "he obviously had a heart attack", "why are you prying, WE DON'T NEED TO KNOW".

    Don't need to know??

    As it turns out, we did need to know: the longer this inquiry goes on the more it stinks of gross municipal incompetence, at best. And now there will be a private prosecution.
    I agree we need to know. And we need to know the cause of the driver's collapse - in the normal course of investigation. I was not aware that there was any such complaints as you suggest but I'll go along with your claims.
    I am not at all sure the prosecution were correct in not acting. I do not see it as murder, or manslaughter but there was clearly not an 'accident' - it was a man who hid his unfitness to drive. The municipal side of things is what is being protected I suspect, not the driver. I wonder if this was a private motor car - possibly a posh one - what the decision would have been.
    He has lied since he joined the council , they and DVLC are obviously totally incompetent. You only had to look at the state of him to see he was a walking timebomb driving HGV's.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,265
    edited August 2015
    SeanT said:





    Swedish media are heavily hinting that there was a beheading. "Chopped to death" is the phrase used here, in a reliable newspaper.

    http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article21249398.ab

    Chopped to death. Not a quick stab to the stomach.

    On examination Sweden is even more crippled by political correctness than the UK. Swedish politicians and police are refusing to offer any opinions on the crime, refused to discuss beheadings, are refusing to discuss terrorist motives, are blaming conditions in asylum camps causing "craziness", and are otherwise "tightlipped" (AFP). They have also suppressed apparent footage of the crime, because it might be exploited by "dark forces".

    Er, what? How much darker can you get than possibly covering up a beheading in IKEA? Aren't Swedes entitled to know the truth?




    I can't believe I'm arguing about Swedish with Sean, but:

    (1) Aftonbladet is the equivalent of The Sun, and suggesting it's preoccupied with political correctness is as sensible as it would be if we were talking about The Sun. They live on sensation.

    (2) The full text that Sean links to is perfectly clear and doesn't hint, heavily or otherwise, at beheading. The murder weapon was a kitchen knife: the murderer appears on film stealing it from the kitchen department. The mother was stabbed in the torso (abdomen). The son was stabbed several times (location not stated) and also received injuries from trying to ward off the knife.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Probably the most polite comment under that article calls him an appalling crawler.

    Yup.
    ydoethur said:

    Plato said:

    Corbyn offers Burnham job as vote opens in Labour race http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4529865.ece

    After his appallingly inept campaign, which keeps plumbing new depths just as we thought it had reached the nadir, Burnham should be grateful for any job more prestigious than that of cloakroom attendant at Brewer's Green.

    My old Head of Sixth, a geography and economics teacher, had a wonderfully acerbic line in reports (he'd never get away with some of the things he said now). I think this one (not for me!) would be most apt for Burnham: 'He has long ago reached rock bottom and in the only sign of industry he has shown all year, began drilling.'
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Charles, that looks dodgy as hell to me.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,048
    kle4 said:

    The dominance of the SNP will surely lead to another referendum in time, and their very strength compared to last time would, I'd have thought, make the job easier. If the only issue is the leadership is concerned it might be too soon to ask the question again for those on the fence, and yet their membership is clamouring for it, it's not much of an issue - at the end of the day the membership would probably complaint but be patient if needed if they can be convinced a wait of just a little longer will see them home and their dream fulfilled. We joke about annual referendums and the like, but as pointed out Sturgeon and co are canny enough to think more cautiously about such matters, and with the party doing so well the membership willsurely follow the leadership if they say it needs to wait a little while.

    I am certain there will be another vote by 2020 at the latest.

    The SNP themselves don't want one. They're getting on with being MPs and governing. They're realising that perfidious Albion isn't too bad.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Cyclefree said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Slightly O/T

    I saw a disturbing piece on Countryfile yesterday. Apparently, there's a bill going through Holyrood to reduce the ownership rights of Scottish landowners - opening the doors for a land grab a la Zimbabwe.

    My friend who has a small island just off Harris (nothing massive - he bought it for about £2m a few years ago after he sold his company) is spitting about it. There's a real risk that he could lose his holiday home, despite the fact that he has invested in it, and created employment for a dozen people there.
    Rubbish, it is only aimed at selfish rich tw**s that treat locals etc like dirt. Typical greedy Tory gits, 432 rats own more than half of Scotland, it is a scandal. If you chum is in any way decent he has nothing to fear, if he is your usual Tory **se then the sooner he is ousted the better.
    He's a Kiwi; his wife's an Iraqi-Cannuk who's been holidaying in Harris for 35 years.

    But he's still worried. He may have "nothing to fear" but under the rules as drafted the island he loves could be taken away from him.
    The rules will be very sensible and any good land owner will have nothing to fear. It is the small minority of bad ones that will be affected as they should be.
    What does this new law say? I've only dimly heard about it.
    In case you're really interested :grin:

    https://basedrones.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/land-reform-scotland-bill.pdf
    Thank you. That'll teach me to ask!

    Section 47 is important.

    Ministers get to decide on the transfer of land if they deem it in the public interest; that the sustainable development of the land will be enhanced by the transfer; or if the community will be harmed by the transfer not occurring.

    Can you see why my mate is nervous?
    If you've crossed the politicians, they can steal your land. Be afraid.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,547
    The spectre hanging over a decision to go for another referendum is that a second No vote would kill independence forever. The SNP is an extremely broad church containing right and left wing supporters with little in common except a belief that Scotland should be independent. One of those political ironies is that the SNP's strength comes from leaving independence unconsummated, while Labour would undoubtedly benefit from the issue being resolved one way or the other - which essentially means independence.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,265

    Agreed. As I understand the rules, if you lose your home to build an airport or whatever, normally you get market value + 20% for inconvenience.

    Once again, one has to be gobsmacked by the sheer ignorance of someone who was an MP for 13 years, and who presumably attended debates and voted in matters involving compulsory purchase. It's perhaps a bit unfair to pick on Nick, since I imagine nearly all Labour MPs, and perhaps some MPs of other parties, were and are equally ignorant. Even so, surely anyone even vaguely associated with lawmaking and public policy should have at least a cursory acquaintance with compulsory purchase.

    For the record, you get (in theory) only the market value, and zero compensation for the inconvenience and hassle of having your home confiscated.
    No - for vehemence of that kind, Richard, it's a good idea to check your facts. See 2.64 of https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/7719/147648.pdf

    But it's 10%, not 20%, and capped at £47,000. On the other hand, you also get payment for unavoidable costs in moving.

    Obviously, none of this applies if you don't actually live there and therefore don't suffer inconvenience.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    ydoethur said:

    Comical. Virtue signalling rebounding...

    Jim Waterson ‏@jimwaterson

    Greetings from Iowa, where it took me 5mins on my phone to take control of a load of strangers' Labour ballot papers: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/vote-early-vote-often-vote-using-someones-instagram

    This is now getting embarrassing. In the race for most incompetent political or administrative entity, Labour are starting to make OFSTED look positively well-organised. They're even running the notorious repayments division of the Student Loans Company, who don't keep proper records of addresses or repayments, close for first.

    Is there any huge, avoidable, painful and mind-bendingly stupid unforced error they have yet to make in this set of elections?
    You really don't like labour, d'ya?

    Unless I'm mistaken, anyone can basically do the same thing in uk elections. If you know someone's publicly available personal information (address etc), and you know that they're on the electoral register, you can theoretically just turn up to the correct polling station @7am and nick their vote.

    Just because the system makes such blatant fraud theoretically possible, doesn't mean that the people who designed the system are incompetent.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    FF43 said:

    The spectre hanging over a decision to go for another referendum is that a second No vote would kill independence forever. The SNP is an extremely broad church containing right and left wing supporters with little in common except a belief that Scotland should be independent. One of those political ironies is that the SNP's strength comes from leaving independence unconsummated, while Labour would undoubtedly benefit from the issue being resolved one way or the other - which essentially means independence.

    Didn't they say that about the first referendum though...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,963
    Pong said:

    ydoethur said:

    Comical. Virtue signalling rebounding...

    Jim Waterson ‏@jimwaterson

    Greetings from Iowa, where it took me 5mins on my phone to take control of a load of strangers' Labour ballot papers: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/vote-early-vote-often-vote-using-someones-instagram

    This is now getting embarrassing. In the race for most incompetent political or administrative entity, Labour are starting to make OFSTED look positively well-organised. They're even running the notorious repayments division of the Student Loans Company, who don't keep proper records of addresses or repayments, close for first.

    Is there any huge, avoidable, painful and mind-bendingly stupid unforced error they have yet to make in this set of elections?
    You really don't like labour, d'ya?

    Unless I'm mistaken, anyone can basically do the same thing in uk elections. If you know someone's publicly available personal information (address etc), and you know that they're on the electoral register, you can theoretically just turn up to the correct polling station @7am and nick their vote.

    Just because the system makes such blatant fraud theoretically possible, doesn't mean that the people who designed the system are incompetent.
    This system is easy to crack because Labour TRIED TO SAVE MONEY. They wanted people to vote online, so they don't have to (presumably) pay people to open envelopes and count the votes. I think some blame can be laid at their door in those circumstances.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,928
    edited August 2015
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:





    Swedish media are heavily hinting that there was a beheading. "Chopped to death" is the phrase used here, in a reliable newspaper.

    http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article21249398.ab

    Chopped to death. Not a quick stab to the stomach.

    On examination Sweden is even more crippled by political correctness than the UK. Swedish politicians and police are refusing to offer any opinions on the crime, refused to discuss beheadings, are refusing to discuss terrorist motives, are blaming conditions in asylum camps causing "craziness", and are otherwise "tightlipped" (AFP). They have also suppressed apparent footage of the crime, because it might be exploited by "dark forces".

    Er, what? How much darker can you get than possibly covering up a beheading in IKEA? Aren't Swedes entitled to know the truth?




    I can't believe I'm arguing about Swedish with Sean, but:

    (1) Aftonbladet is the equivalent of The Sun, and suggesting it's preoccupied with political correctness is as sensible as it would be if we were talking about The Sun. They live on sensation.

    (2) The full text that Sean links to is perfectly clear and doesn't hint, heavily or otherwise, at beheading. The murder weapon was a kitchen knife: the murderer appears on film stealing it from the kitchen department. The mother was stabbed in the torso (abdomen). The son was stabbed several times (location not stated) and also received injuries from trying to ward off the knife.

    Here is the key phrase.

    höggs ihjäl på möbelvaruhusets porslinsavdelning.

    Google gives it as "chopped to death".

    höggs ihjäl på möbelvaruhusets porslinsavdelning.

    actually means "was chopped to death on the furniture store china department."

    höggs ihjäl

    means "chopped to death"
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Welcome to PB, Mr 43.
    FF43 said:

    The spectre hanging over a decision to go for another referendum is that a second No vote would kill independence forever. The SNP is an extremely broad church containing right and left wing supporters with little in common except a belief that Scotland should be independent. One of those political ironies is that the SNP's strength comes from leaving independence unconsummated, while Labour would undoubtedly benefit from the issue being resolved one way or the other - which essentially means independence.

  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    Cyclefree said:



    If people are handsomely, very handsomely, compensated, then much of the Nimbyism would disappear. Being stingy with compensation to those affected is a false economy.

    Agreed. As I understand the rules, if you lose your home to build an airport or whatever, normally you get market value + 20% for inconvenience. That seems a bit stingy for a megaproject costing billions. But if it was 40-50%, I think most of us would cheerfully take the money.

    As for blocks of flats vs detached houses, we need both, with appropriate price differentials (Continental experience suggests blocks are around half the unit cost). Some of us prefer living in blocks of flats at the lower cost (let someone else worry about the roof, the boiler, etc.), others are only happy in detached housing because they want a garden and don't like imminent neighbours. But giving everyone a detached house is not a practical ambition, nor something that everyone wants.
    I'd take a flat or apartment if they were spacious and well soundproofed. I have to walk past a new build apartment block everyday (this is in leafy, prosperous Monmouth). The walls are wooden; the rooms tiny. Doubtless they'll be marketed as retirement flats.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    Comical. Virtue signalling rebounding...

    Jim Waterson ‏@jimwaterson

    Greetings from Iowa, where it took me 5mins on my phone to take control of a load of strangers' Labour ballot papers: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/vote-early-vote-often-vote-using-someones-instagram

    Just when you thought that Labour's embarrassment might be coming to end, with people actually casting their vote t get this thing over and done with. And to think, these same folks were in charge of our democratic process for 13 of the past 18 years....
    Er wasn't Cameron claiming to be the heir to Blair ?

    If you're laughing now, why did you want to copy them then ?

    Cameron has succeeded in instigating reform to pensions welfare and education where Blair ran away. Likewise bringing private contracts into the NHS.The public agree with for instance welfare reform, and the point is Cameron got elected - he did so by accepting the mood of the voters over things like BoE independence and the minimum wage and other 'social' issues. All you can do is witter on about an offhand private remark.
    Labour will need to find someone who is the heir to Cameron before they can be trusted with power.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,265
    SeanT said:



    Here is the key phrase.

    höggs ihjäl på möbelvaruhusets porslinsavdelning.

    Google gives it as "chopped to death".

    Other lesser translators are divided between "carved to death" and "chopped to death". None of these implies a simple stabbing, where we imagine someone losing it, for a second, and sticking someone between the ribs.

    As for the rest of your ridiculous argument, perhaps you are unaware who owns Aftonbladet? The Swedish TUC. Yes. That bunch of notorious Nazi billionaires, the Swedish Trades Unions.

    lol.



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aftonbladet

    I didn't say it was right-wing, merely that it isn't politically correct. The phrase is ambiguous sensationalism, but if you'd bothered to Google the rest of the article (go on, do it now) you'd see that they explain that it was a stabbing. Still horrible, but not the beheading that you're after.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited August 2015

    No - for vehemence of that kind, Richard, it's a good idea to check your facts. See 2.64 of https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/7719/147648.pdf

    But it's 10%, not 20%, and capped at £47,000. On the other hand, you also get payment for unavoidable costs in moving.

    Obviously, none of this applies if you don't actually live there and therefore don't suffer inconvenience.

    Apologies, you are right, I'd forgotten about the Home Loss payment, which as you say does give a 10% uplift up to a maximum of (now) £49K to some victims of compulsory purchase. However, that doesn't apply if (for example) part of your garden is compulsorily purchased, thereby chopping value off your home, nor if it's not your main residence. In addition I don't think you get any uplift or expense recovery if you 'choose' to move because they've nicked your garden and built a road through it, thereby wrecking your home completely but not actually compulsorily purchasing it. And the uplift is on the valuation which the acquiring authority will haggle over - surprise surprise, these are not necessarily exactly generous.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    Kezia Dugdale has made one of her first policy statements:

    " I co-founded a campaign called women 50/50 with Alison Johnson, a Green MSP, a Yes voting MSP, to campaign for a 50/50 parliament - a legal requirement that the Scottish Parliament must be 50% women and 50% men. That is one example of where my feminist principles will drive me in and force me to ensure that the politics we have in Scotland reflects the diversity we have in society. "

    Unless we give up on elections all together, I can't see how a legal requirement that the Scottish Parliament must be 50% women and 50% men is in anyway practical - should this law pass and be broken who gets prosecuted - the voters?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-33957393
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,547
    Danny565 said:

    ... a second No vote would kill independence forever. ...

    Didn't they say that about the first referendum though...

    No they wouldn't say that. the SNP are very dedicated to independence. If they thought they would win, they would call a vote tomorrow. But there is a lot of risk in it and Nicola Sturgeon if not a cautious politician. David Cameron and the UK government probably can't stop a referendum, or ultimately independence, happening, but they can make the cost of separation very high if they choose. There's the new lack of oil revenue. And although the SNP discount it, the fact remains that we have already voted No after an interminable campaign.

    For a considered pro-SNP take on these issues read: http://lallandspeatworrier.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/be-critical-have-patience.html
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Calum, as you say, it's a steaming mound of idiocy.

    You *could* enforce it if you had constituencies be purely male or female and then enforced an even gender split on the lists (so, two gender-segregated lists).

    As a concept, it's mental and ridiculous, although it does have some small comedy value and highlights Dugdale's daftness.

    Mr. 43, welcome to pb.com.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 5,996
    "If she felt that a second referendum was a worthwhile proposition in the short term, she would already have committed to giving the public the chance to vote for one next year. That she hasn’t done this tells its own story."

    They have had one referendum on the 2011 mandate. To have two seems excessive. So I don't think this is signalling much, except that Sturgeon would like to hold in reserve positive reasons for people to vote SNP in 2016. As for not including a referendum - it is like voting Tory on a manifesto with tax rises, or Labour on a manifesto for cutting the NHS. It is not the point of the SNP to not offer independence.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I've been out for the afternoon and thanks for all the kind comments.

    To answer SeanT's question, I usually write these pieces at weekends or in the morning before work. The hardest bit is the thinking, which I do in the bath or in particularly dull internal meetings.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    Comical. Virtue signalling rebounding...

    Jim Waterson ‏@jimwaterson

    Greetings from Iowa, where it took me 5mins on my phone to take control of a load of strangers' Labour ballot papers: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/vote-early-vote-often-vote-using-someones-instagram

    Just when you thought that Labour's embarrassment might be coming to end, with people actually casting their vote t get this thing over and done with. And to think, these same folks were in charge of our democratic process for 13 of the past 18 years....
    Er wasn't Cameron claiming to be the heir to Blair ?

    If you're laughing now, why did you want to copy them then ?

    Cameron has succeeded in instigating reform to pensions welfare and education where Blair ran away. Likewise bringing private contracts into the NHS.The public agree with for instance welfare reform, and the point is Cameron got elected - he did so by accepting the mood of the voters over things like BoE independence and the minimum wage and other 'social' issues. All you can do is witter on about an offhand private remark.
    Labour will need to find someone who is the heir to Cameron before they can be trusted with power.
    Do I take it you're Orville to Marquee Mark' s Keith Harris ?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited August 2015
    It looks like Sweden has taken in so many immigrants that the usual female/male balance of the population that you get in developed Western countries has been reversed. In the UK there are more than a million more women than men, in Sweden they now have more men than women.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,547



    Mr. 43, welcome to pb.com.

    Thanks, and also to Plato, for the welcome. I was on before but couldn't connect to my account. Very nice to be back.

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