I do not believe that current trends point to social liberalism (or indeed "British values") being unsustainable.
.
s evidence that another group will behave in the same way.
Ifor longer mellow in this regard.
This is actively specious. Just a bunch of lies. The evidence points in quite the opposite direction: that British Muslim views have echoed the world of Islam as a whole (which you'd expect) and become MORE conservative over time.
A decade ago burqas and niqabs were barely seen. Now they're on every high street. Look at the polling of British Muslims, 2nd and 3rd generation, on things like sharia, homosexuality, apostasy, ISIS. It is alarming. Look at the kids running off to Syria to behead people and enslave Yazidi girls. Unimaginable ten years ago.
Yet you prattle on about Muslims resident in Britain "mellowing out".
Idiot.
The main study was done on age, not a change of study viewpoint.
Younger Muslims do tend to hold more extreme views than older ones.
You can say that is the mass conversion of young Muslims to alternative creeds, or you can see it as a mellowing out. Probably both. I don't really want to take issue on that front.
But I cannot countenance being called an idiot when it is quite clear none of this stuff was "unimaginable ten years ago".
10 years ago, we had the 7/7 bombings carried out by young, Muslim extremists.
Three were born in this country.
You are arguing against your own point though!
First Gen Immigrants know how crap it was living in Islamic countries, that's why they left
2nd and 3rd Gen seem to see the "old country" as some pure 14th C paradise, a view only allowed to form because they've never lived there...
Its getting worse because it is Strict Islam mixed with 21st Century Western propaganda and technology
From 2009, The Guardian
British Muslims have zero tolerance for Homosexuality
OT Has anyone made their own sesame prawn toasts? I've got the bread, sesame seeds, prawns, egg and spring onion + water chestnuts - how do I stop them falling apart in the pan/gluing themselves to the base?
SeanT - I was at work so wasn't able to respond the other day, but thank you for pointing out the murders in the Ikea in Sweden. I see the Express website has a limited report about the incident, but I cannot see it being reported on any other mainstream UK media website.
There's a little bit of me that wonders if this is a new tactic - i.e. ignore the terrorists, but given the situation in Calais I suspect that it's more about the media not wanting to be seen to be stirring it up. Quite how it's being reported in Sweden I don't know, but it does make you wonder what else our media isn't telling us.
Big hoo ha about a stabbing on the Piccadilly line last week which closed the tube for an hour or so.. a manhunt ensued, with no description of the suspect issued.
He was caught at Heathrow & is refusing to appear in court, Adeyemi Adekeyi
I didn't realise that the Labour MPs were on site, shovelling ballast and carrying sleepers as their shirtless bodies glistened from the good, honest work.
BTW, have you learnt anything about railway electrification yet? You seemed to have some rather odd views a few weeks ago.
I am curious, Mr. J., what odd views can one have about electrification of railways? Where it is really necessary the third rail method of the Southern Railway seems to work satisfactorily and where it isn't really necessary steam trains are perfectly capable of getting people and freight from A to B in a reasonable timescale. Surely these matters were settled many years ago.
Catenary towers and other foreign mumbo-jumbo masquerading as engineering are unnecessary and a waste of taxpayers' money
The odd view was that we were very late in getting rid of steam and moving to electric / diesel, when in fact it was done far too fast,
As for electrification: AIUI ( and IANAE), third-rail DC is okay for relatively slow regularly-stopping passenger services, such as commuter lines, which is why the Southern Railway and Merseyrail chose it, along with a couple of LNWR branches in London.
It is not very good for heavy freights or fast expresses, as they require more grunt. Hence why the 'Electric spine' from Southampton is/was going to replace third-rail with 25kv knitting.
And the Underground too, though they added a fourth rail, given how keen they were
Kendall got my first vote Cooper my second preference
No one got my third or fourth preference, if neither Cooper nor Kendall win I leave the party.
The point is the party will have left you. If you are wondering how then try one of those face morphing programmes. I must say i'm not sure what to make of it, but I can say i'm glad its not happened to the Tory party.
I didn't realise that the Labour MPs were on site, shovelling ballast and carrying sleepers as their shirtless bodies glistened from the good, honest work.
BTW, have you learnt anything about railway electrification yet? You seemed to have some rather odd views a few weeks ago.
I am curious, Mr. J., what odd views can one have about electrification of railways? Where it is really necessary the third rail method of the Southern Railway seems to work satisfactorily and where it isn't really necessary steam trains are perfectly capable of getting people and freight from A to B in a reasonable timescale. Surely these matters were settled many years ago.
Catenary towers and other foreign mumbo-jumbo masquerading as engineering are unnecessary and a waste of taxpayers' money
The odd view was that we were very late in getting rid of steam and moving to electric / diesel, when in fact it was done far too fast,
As for electrification: AIUI ( and IANAE), third-rail DC is okay for relatively slow regularly-stopping passenger services, such as commuter lines, which is why the Southern Railway and Merseyrail chose it, along with a couple of LNWR branches in London.
It is not very good for heavy freights or fast expresses, as they require more grunt. Hence why the 'Electric spine' from Southampton is/was going to replace third-rail with 25kv knitting.
And the Underground too, though they added a fourth rail, given how keen they were
BTW Third rail all the way out to Weymouth, man!
Although not to Weymouth Harbour. That might have made the harbourside road through Weymouth somewhat interesting ...
I do not believe that current trends point to social liberalism (or indeed "British values") being unsustainable.
In the last thirty years, the proportion of people believing that sex between same-sex is "morally wrong" has fallen by more than half, whether Christian or not. Civil partnerships have gone from a minority view to one supported by the vast majority - and we are in the middle of a seismic shift over same-sex marriage. I do not believe the countervailing factors are enough to change that.
Why do you believe birth rates will fall, or that the social views of Muslims will become more liberal? It hasn't happened over the last thirty years. It seems mistaken to use the behaviour of one group as evidence that another group will behave in the same way.
this regard.
".
Idiot.
The main study was done on age, not a change of study viewpoint.
Younger Muslims do tend to hold more extreme views than older ones.
You can say that is the mass conversion of young Muslims to alternative creeds, or you can see it as a mellowing out. Probably both. I don't really want to take issue on that front.
But I cannot countenance being called an idiot when it is quite clear none of this stuff was "unimaginable ten years ago".
10 years ago, we had the 7/7 bombings carried out by young, Muslim extremists.
Three were born in this country.
How can younger Muslims holding more extreme views POSSIBLY be seen as "mellowing out". I'm sorry I called you an idiot. That was an insult to global idiotry.
As for the ten years thing, fine. Let's say fifteen. "Unimaginable fifteen years ago". The point remains.
Britain has faced many such challenges in the last fifty years.
We've had domestic and international terrorism, race riots, sectarian violence.
None has proven to hold the country back for long.
Extreme Islam is a problem Britain must face, but some dystopian vision of a future socially conservative UK is wide of the mark.
SeanT - I was at work so wasn't able to respond the other day, but thank you for pointing out the murders in the Ikea in Sweden. I see the Express website has a limited report about the incident, but I cannot see it being reported on any other mainstream UK media website.
There's a little bit of me that wonders if this is a new tactic - i.e. ignore the terrorists, but given the situation in Calais I suspect that it's more about the media not wanting to be seen to be stirring it up. Quite how it's being reported in Sweden I don't know, but it does make you wonder what else our media isn't telling us.
Big hoo ha about a stabbing on the Piccadilly line last week which closed the tube for an hour or so.. a manhunt ensued, with no description of the suspect issued.
He was caught at Heathrow & is refusing to appear in court, Adeyemi Adekeyi
How does a suspect refuse to appear in court? Surely he's bloody well dragged up kicking and screaming in front of the judge - or is that against their 'uman rights these days?
I didn't realise that the Labour MPs were on site, shovelling ballast and carrying sleepers as their shirtless bodies glistened from the good, honest work.
BTW, have you learnt anything about railway electrification yet? You seemed to have some rather odd views a few weeks ago.
I am curious, Mr. J., what odd views can one have about electrification of railways? Where it is really necessary the third rail method of the Southern Railway seems to work satisfactorily and where it isn't really necessary steam trains are perfectly capable of getting people and freight from A to B in a reasonable timescale. Surely these matters were settled many years ago.
Catenary towers and other foreign mumbo-jumbo masquerading as engineering are unnecessary and a waste of taxpayers' money
The odd view was that we were very late in getting rid of steam and moving to electric / diesel, when in fact it was done far too fast,
As for electrification: AIUI ( and IANAE), third-rail DC is okay for relatively slow regularly-stopping passenger services, such as commuter lines, which is why the Southern Railway and Merseyrail chose it, along with a couple of LNWR branches in London.
It is not very good for heavy freights or fast expresses, as they require more grunt. Hence why the 'Electric spine' from Southampton is/was going to replace third-rail with 25kv knitting.
As ever, Mr. Jessop, I shall bow to your vastly superior knowledge of engineering, except on these few occasions when you are just plain wrong, of course (e.g. Brunel's sensible gauge for railways). For the sort of line that is not suitable for the third rail, steam would seem to be the answer, would it not. The fact that it might take some business traveller a bit longer to get to London from somewhere else, seems trivial compared to the cost of all the towers and cables and, well, stuff. Rail freight is not that time critical anyway.
On another note and combining your love of engineering with matters military. I was reading a report the other day about the work the Septics have been doing to see if they could sustain combat operations in Eastern Europe. As one might expect, given the distances involved, logistics came top of the list of barriers. They seem to discovered for the first time that Eastern Europe has a different gauge of railways to Western Europe. Astonishing really, given that these fellows are supposedly the cream of the US military.
SeanT - I was at work so wasn't able to respond the other day, but thank you for pointing out the murders in the Ikea in Sweden. I see the Express website has a limited report about the incident, but I cannot see it being reported on any other mainstream UK media website.
There's a little bit of me that wonders if this is a new tactic - i.e. ignore the terrorists, but given the situation in Calais I suspect that it's more about the media not wanting to be seen to be stirring it up. Quite how it's being reported in Sweden I don't know, but it does make you wonder what else our media isn't telling us.
Big hoo ha about a stabbing on the Piccadilly line last week which closed the tube for an hour or so.. a manhunt ensued, with no description of the suspect issued.
He was caught at Heathrow & is refusing to appear in court, Adeyemi Adekeyi
How does a suspect refuse to appear in court? Surely he's bloody well dragged up kicking and screaming in front of the judge - or is that against their 'uman rights these days?
You would think so.
But apparently not. If you refuse to leave your cell the court goes to you (no doubt at ridiculous expense to taxpayers).
Kendall got my first vote Cooper my second preference
No one got my third or fourth preference, if neither Cooper nor Kendall win I leave the party.
The point is the party will have left you. If you are wondering how then try one of those face morphing programmes. I must say i'm not sure what to make of it, but I can say i'm glad its not happened to the Tory party.
When IDS won I knew several Tories who left the party, they did not return until Michael Howard replaced him at the earliest. However the Tories also saw an influx of some rightwing UKIP types at the same time
I had a ride on the West Somerset steam railway on Sunday, the longest heritage railway in the country. You get a fantastic view of the Butlins camp at the start of the journey in Minehead.
Kendall got my first vote Cooper my second preference
No one got my third or fourth preference, if neither Cooper nor Kendall win I leave the party.
The point is the party will have left you. If you are wondering how then try one of those face morphing programmes. I must say i'm not sure what to make of it, but I can say i'm glad its not happened to the Tory party.
When IDS won I knew several Tories who left the party, they did not return until Michael Howard replaced him at the earliest. However the Tories also saw an influx of some rightwing UKIP types at the same time
There's no way there won't be defections - maybe members and a few councillors jumping ship to Lib and Con might provide encouragement for the odd MP to make the big leap!
I had a ride on the West Somerset steam railway on Sunday, the longest heritage railway in the country. You get a fantastic view of the Butlins camp at the start of the journey in Minehead.
Haven't been that far west, but did the Severn Valley last year.
SeanT - I was at work so wasn't able to respond the other day, but thank you for pointing out the murders in the Ikea in Sweden. I see the Express website has a limited report about the incident, but I cannot see it being reported on any other mainstream UK media website.
There's a little bit of me that wonders if this is a new tactic - i.e. ignore the terrorists, but given the situation in Calais I suspect that it's more about the media not wanting to be seen to be stirring it up. Quite how it's being reported in Sweden I don't know, but it does make you wonder what else our media isn't telling us.
Big hoo ha about a stabbing on the Piccadilly line last week which closed the tube for an hour or so.. a manhunt ensued, with no description of the suspect issued.
He was caught at Heathrow & is refusing to appear in court, Adeyemi Adekeyi
Kendall got my first vote Cooper my second preference
No one got my third or fourth preference, if neither Cooper nor Kendall win I leave the party.
The point is the party will have left you. If you are wondering how then try one of those face morphing programmes. I must say i'm not sure what to make of it, but I can say i'm glad its not happened to the Tory party.
When IDS won I knew several Tories who left the party, they did not return until Michael Howard replaced him at the earliest. However the Tories also saw an influx of some rightwing UKIP types at the same time
There's no way there won't be defections - maybe members and a few councillors jumping ship to Lib and Con might provide encouragement for the odd MP to make the big leap!
I don't think there will be many defections to Farron's LDs or the Tories, it will be more a case of people allowing their membership to lapse
As ever, Mr. Jessop, I shall bow to your vastly superior knowledge of engineering, except on these few occasions when you are just plain wrong, of course (e.g. Brunel's sensible gauge for railways). For the sort of line that is not suitable for the third rail, steam would seem to be the answer, would it not. The fact that it might take some business traveller a bit longer to get to London from somewhere else, seems trivial compared to the cost of all the towers and cables and, well, stuff. Rail freight is not that time critical anyway.
AIUI it's not the time: it's the power needed, which cannot easily be delivered by third rail.
On another note and combining your love of engineering with matters military. I was reading a report the other day about the work the Septics have been doing to see if they could sustain combat operations in Eastern Europe. As one might expect, given the distances involved, logistics came top of the list of barriers. They seem to discovered for the first time that Eastern Europe has a different gauge of railways to Western Europe. Astonishing really, given that these fellows are supposedly the cream of the US military.
Thanks for that. I'd be amazed if that was true, but also unsurprised. Amazed in the fact they'd miss such a logistical problem, but unsurprised because many military organisations seem to have such blindness.
As an aside, how did the Russians plan to cope with these problems during the Cold War, during any push through to Western Europe? They'd have the same problem in reverse.
Kendall got my first vote Cooper my second preference
No one got my third or fourth preference, if neither Cooper nor Kendall win I leave the party.
Will you consider leaving the party when Corbyn wins?
Absolutely, if / when Corbyn or Burnham win I am out.
My grandmother has been a Labour member since about 1947. I have no idea whether she's received a voting pack yet. Quite often she asks me to help fill that sort of thing in for her.
Kendall got my first vote Cooper my second preference
No one got my third or fourth preference, if neither Cooper nor Kendall win I leave the party.
The point is the party will have left you. If you are wondering how then try one of those face morphing programmes. I must say i'm not sure what to make of it, but I can say i'm glad its not happened to the Tory party.
When IDS won I knew several Tories who left the party, they did not return until Michael Howard replaced him at the earliest. However the Tories also saw an influx of some rightwing UKIP types at the same time
There's no way there won't be defections - maybe members and a few councillors jumping ship to Lib and Con might provide encouragement for the odd MP to make the big leap!
I don't think there will be many defections to Farron's LDs or the Tories, it will be more a case of people allowing their membership to lapse
You don't think that some of the more moderate members aren't going to at least make a point of sending back their membership cards?
I've never been a member of a party, but I think if Corbyn wins this I might just join the Tories, if only to help ensure that they replace Cameron with a similarly sensible new leader when the time comes.
As ever, Mr. Jessop, I shall bow to your vastly superior knowledge of engineering, except on these few occasions when you are just plain wrong, of course (e.g. Brunel's sensible gauge for railways). For the sort of line that is not suitable for the third rail, steam would seem to be the answer, would it not. The fact that it might take some business traveller a bit longer to get to London from somewhere else, seems trivial compared to the cost of all the towers and cables and, well, stuff. Rail freight is not that time critical anyway.
AIUI it's not the time: it's the power needed, which cannot easily be delivered by third rail.
British Class 442 third-rail electric multiple units are the fastest class of third-rail EMU in the world, reaching 108 mph (174 km/h).
Used to ply the long-distance routes out of Waterloo, nowadays they do the Victoria to Gatwick Express.
Kendall got my first vote Cooper my second preference
No one got my third or fourth preference, if neither Cooper nor Kendall win I leave the party.
The point is the party will have left you. If you are wondering how then try one of those face morphing programmes. I must say i'm not sure what to make of it, but I can say i'm glad its not happened to the Tory party.
When IDS won I knew several Tories who left the party, they did not return until Michael Howard replaced him at the earliest. However the Tories also saw an influx of some rightwing UKIP types at the same time
There's no way there won't be defections - maybe members and a few councillors jumping ship to Lib and Con might provide encouragement for the odd MP to make the big leap!
I don't think there will be many defections to Farron's LDs or the Tories, it will be more a case of people allowing their membership to lapse
You don't think that some of the more moderate members aren't going to at least make a point of sending back their membership cards?
I've never been a member of a party, but I think if Corbyn wins this I might just join the Tories, if only to ensure that they replace Cameron with a similarly sensible new leader.
They may well do such a protest but I doubt they will become Tories. If too many Blairites defected that could also encourage rightwing Tories to move to UKIP in return, thus a Corbyn leadership could see TUSC/Green types join Labour, maybe some New Labour types join the Tories/LDs and some rightwing Tories join UKIP
I joined the Tories to put my money where my concerns were re Miliband. I felt I couldn't bitch about either side if I didn't at least make an effort to do my bit.
Kendall got my first vote Cooper my second preference
No one got my third or fourth preference, if neither Cooper nor Kendall win I leave the party.
The point is the party will have left you. If you are wondering how then try one of those face morphing programmes. I must say i'm not sure what to make of it, but I can say i'm glad its not happened to the Tory party.
When IDS won I knew several Tories who left the party, they did not return until Michael Howard replaced him at the earliest. However the Tories also saw an influx of some rightwing UKIP types at the same time
There's no way there won't be defections - maybe members and a few councillors jumping ship to Lib and Con might provide encouragement for the odd MP to make the big leap!
I don't think there will be many defections to Farron's LDs or the Tories, it will be more a case of people allowing their membership to lapse
You don't think that some of the more moderate members aren't going to at least make a point of sending back their membership cards?
I've never been a member of a party, but I think if Corbyn wins this I might just join the Tories, if only to help ensure that they replace Cameron with a similarly sensible new leader when the time comes.
As ever, Mr. Jessop, I shall bow to your vastly superior knowledge of engineering, except on these few occasions when you are just plain wrong, of course (e.g. Brunel's sensible gauge for railways). For the sort of line that is not suitable for the third rail, steam would seem to be the answer, would it not. The fact that it might take some business traveller a bit longer to get to London from somewhere else, seems trivial compared to the cost of all the towers and cables and, well, stuff. Rail freight is not that time critical anyway.
AIUI it's not the time: it's the power needed, which cannot easily be delivered by third rail.
British Class 442 third-rail electric multiple units are the fastest class of third-rail EMU in the world, reaching 108 mph (174 km/h).
Used to ply the long-distance routes out of Waterloo, nowadays they do the Victoria to Gatwick Express.
Those bloody plastic trains, with about half the number of seats as the old stock - used to be great for standing from Waterloo all the way to Basingstoke What did they replace them with on the Wessex line?
Kendall got my first vote Cooper my second preference
No one got my third or fourth preference, if neither Cooper nor Kendall win I leave the party.
The point is the party will have left you. If you are wondering how then try one of those face morphing programmes. I must say i'm not sure what to make of it, but I can say i'm glad its not happened to the Tory party.
When IDS won I knew several Tories who left the party, they did not return until Michael Howard replaced him at the earliest. However the Tories also saw an influx of some rightwing UKIP types at the same time
There's no way there won't be defections - maybe members and a few councillors jumping ship to Lib and Con might provide encouragement for the odd MP to make the big leap!
Lib Dems will not welcome defections from Labour, MPs or members.
They will not want socilaists taking them over the way the Marxists are taking over Labour.
As ever, Mr. Jessop, I shall bow to your vastly superior knowledge of engineering, except on these few occasions when you are just plain wrong, of course (e.g. Brunel's sensible gauge for railways). For the sort of line that is not suitable for the third rail, steam would seem to be the answer, would it not. The fact that it might take some business traveller a bit longer to get to London from somewhere else, seems trivial compared to the cost of all the towers and cables and, well, stuff. Rail freight is not that time critical anyway.
AIUI it's not the time: it's the power needed, which cannot easily be delivered by third rail.
British Class 442 third-rail electric multiple units are the fastest class of third-rail EMU in the world, reaching 108 mph (174 km/h).
Used to ply the long-distance routes out of Waterloo, nowadays they do the Victoria to Gatwick Express.
Those bloody plastic trains, with about half the number of seats as the old stock - used to be great for standing from Waterloo all the way to Basingstoke What did they replace them with on the Wessex line?
As ever, Mr. Jessop, I shall bow to your vastly superior knowledge of engineering, except on these few occasions when you are just plain wrong, of course (e.g. Brunel's sensible gauge for railways). For the sort of line that is not suitable for the third rail, steam would seem to be the answer, would it not. The fact that it might take some business traveller a bit longer to get to London from somewhere else, seems trivial compared to the cost of all the towers and cables and, well, stuff. Rail freight is not that time critical anyway.
AIUI it's not the time: it's the power needed, which cannot easily be delivered by third rail.
British Class 442 third-rail electric multiple units are the fastest class of third-rail EMU in the world, reaching 108 mph (174 km/h).
Used to ply the long-distance routes out of Waterloo, nowadays they do the Victoria to Gatwick Express.
I'm getting more and more confident that Labour MP John Woodcock will resign as an MP if Corbyn wins. Whether he'll stand as an Indy or not is another question.
I'm getting more and more confident that Labour MP John Woodcock will resign as an MP if Corbyn wins. Whether he'll stand as an Indy or not is another question.
With a split left vote, the Tories can take a real tilt at Barrow. It could be a very interesting by-election.
I'm getting more and more confident that Labour MP John Woodcock will resign as an MP if Corbyn wins. Whether he'll stand as an Indy or not is another question.
With a split left vote, the Tories can take a real tilt at Barrow. It could be a very interesting by-election.
Kendall got my first vote Cooper my second preference
No one got my third or fourth preference, if neither Cooper nor Kendall win I leave the party.
The point is the party will have left you. If you are wondering how then try one of those face morphing programmes. I must say i'm not sure what to make of it, but I can say i'm glad its not happened to the Tory party.
When IDS won I knew several Tories who left the party, they did not return until Michael Howard replaced him at the earliest. However the Tories also saw an influx of some rightwing UKIP types at the same time
There's no way there won't be defections - maybe members and a few councillors jumping ship to Lib and Con might provide encouragement for the odd MP to make the big leap!
Lib Dems will not welcome defections from Labour, MPs or members.
They will not want socilaists taking them over the way the Marxists are taking over Labour.
Interesting viewpoint. So It'll be SDP2 for the centrist Labour. Hunt, Kendall, Umunna and Jarvis to be the new Gang of Four?
I'm getting more and more confident that Labour MP John Woodcock will resign as an MP if Corbyn wins. Whether he'll stand as an Indy or not is another question.
With a split left vote, the Tories can take a real tilt at Barrow. It could be a very interesting by-election.
It's in Farron's backyard too...
You never know they might even save their deposit !
I'm getting more and more confident that Labour MP John Woodcock will resign as an MP if Corbyn wins. Whether he'll stand as an Indy or not is another question.
Surely he would stand again, either for Labour if they'd have him or as an independent if not. It makes no sense to resign and then leave the field to the unilateralists with only other parties to compete against them (unless he could be persuaded to stand for another party, though that would undermine his principle).
I do not believe that current trends point to social liberalism (or indeed "British values") being unsustainable.
.
s evidence that another group will behave in the same way.
Ifor longer mellow in this regard.
This is actively specious. Just a bunch of lies. The evidence points in quite the opposite direction: that British Muslim views have echoed the world of Islam as a whole (which you'd expect) and become MORE conservative over time.
A decade ago burqas and niqabs were barely seen. Now they're on every high street. Look at the polling of British Muslims, 2nd and 3rd generation, on things like sharia, homosexuality, apostasy, ISIS. It is alarming. Look at the kids running off to Syria to behead people and enslave Yazidi girls. Unimaginable ten years ago.
Yet you prattle on about Muslims resident in Britain "mellowing out".
Idiot.
The main study was done on age, not a change of study viewpoint.
Younger Muslims do tend to hold more extreme views than older ones.
You can say that is the mass conversion of young Muslims to alternative creeds, or you can see it as a mellowing out. Probably both. I don't really want to take issue on that front.
But I cannot countenance being called an idiot when it is quite clear none of this stuff was "unimaginable ten years ago".
10 years ago, we had the 7/7 bombings carried out by young, Muslim extremists.
Three were born in this country.
You are arguing against your own point though!
First Gen Immigrants know how crap it was living in Islamic countries, that's why they left
2nd and 3rd Gen seem to see the "old country" as some pure 14th C paradise, a view only allowed to form because they've never lived there...
Its getting worse because it is Strict Islam mixed with 21st Century Western propaganda and technology
From 2009, The Guardian
British Muslims have zero tolerance for Homosexuality
Really I don't envisage a future in which the UK adopts sharia law. My vision of dystopia is a communal one, where people increasingly identify as members of an ethnic or religious community, and the government enforces employment quotas, governs through the medium of "community leaders" and imposes ever more stringent curbs on speech.
That's far more consistent with current policies, and represents the outworking of socially liberal beliefs.
I'm getting more and more confident that Labour MP John Woodcock will resign as an MP if Corbyn wins. Whether he'll stand as an Indy or not is another question.
With a split left vote, the Tories can take a real tilt at Barrow. It could be a very interesting by-election.
That would be a great by-election. The Tories would go into it backing Trident renewal and with it thousands of local jobs.
I'm getting more and more confident that Labour MP John Woodcock will resign as an MP if Corbyn wins. Whether he'll stand as an Indy or not is another question.
He won't get re-elected without Tory support if he runs as an independent, if not he will splitt the vote let the Tories win and he'll become the poster boy of what happens when blairites try to make their own political fortune outside of Labour.
Not to mention he will increase the suspicion and hatred about blairites inside Labour, so far all the accusations about them are mostly without confirmation, a Tory win in a by-election caused by a blairite will provide a lot of ammunition to the anti-blairites.
I'm getting more and more confident that Labour MP John Woodcock will resign as an MP if Corbyn wins. Whether he'll stand as an Indy or not is another question.
Surely he would stand again, either for Labour if they'd have him or as an independent if not. It makes no sense to resign and then leave the field to the unilateralists with only other parties to compete against them (unless he could be persuaded to stand for another party, though that would undermine his principle).
Unilateralists are not going to get many votes in Barrow, home of BAE Systems submarine boatbuilder.
As an aside, how did the Russians plan to cope with these problems during the Cold War, during any push through to Western Europe? They'd have the same problem in reverse.
Apologies for the delay in replying - I had to go and fight my cat for my share of supper. Herself gave us a special treat tonight liver and onions. The cat is very partial to liver and has terrible table manners. Possibly his welsh upbringing.
Anyway to answer your question. The Sovs never planned to have to do heavy resupply beyond reach of their railheads in East Germany. So it simply was not an issue for them to even consider.
Its only a problem for NATO because it is looking at starting a conflict hundreds of miles East of its existing logistics infrastructure. So the need for heavy resupply is baked into any state on state conflict that will last longer than a few days.
I'm getting more and more confident that Labour MP John Woodcock will resign as an MP if Corbyn wins. Whether he'll stand as an Indy or not is another question.
Surely he would stand again, either for Labour if they'd have him or as an independent if not. It makes no sense to resign and then leave the field to the unilateralists with only other parties to compete against them (unless he could be persuaded to stand for another party, though that would undermine his principle).
Unilateralists are not going to get many votes in Barrow, home of BAE Systems submarine boatbuilder.
Indeed not. However, a Corbyn-led party would be accused of being unilateralist-friendly at the very least whatever the candidate's individual views.
I do not believe that current trends point to social liberalism (or indeed "British values") being unsustainable.
.
s evidence that another group will behave in the same way.
Ifor longer mellow in this regard.
This is actively specious. Just a bunch of lies. The evidence points in quite the opposite direction: that British Muslim views have echoed the world of Islam as a whole (which you'd expect) and become MORE conservative over time.
A decade ago burqas and niqabs were barely seen. Now they're on every high street. Look at the polling of British Muslims, 2nd and 3rd generation, on things like sharia, homosexuality, apostasy, ISIS. It is alarming. Look at the kids running off to Syria to behead people and enslave Yazidi girls. Unimaginable ten years ago.
Yet you prattle on about Muslims resident in Britain "mellowing out".
Idiot.
The main study was done on age, not a change of study viewpoint.
Younger Muslims do tend to hold more extreme views than older ones.
You can say that is the mass conversion of young Muslims to alternative creeds, or you can see it as a mellowing out. Probably both. I don't really want to take issue on that front.
But I cannot countenance being called an idiot when it is quite clear none of this stuff was "unimaginable ten years ago".
10 years ago, we had the 7/7 bombings carried out by young, Muslim extremists.
Three were born in this country.
You are arguing against your own point though!
First Gen Immigrants know how crap it was living in Islamic countries, that's why they left
2nd and 3rd Gen seem to see the "old country" as some pure 14th C paradise, a view only allowed to form because they've never lived there...
Its getting worse because it is Strict Islam mixed with 21st Century Western propaganda and technology
From 2009, The Guardian
British Muslims have zero tolerance for Homosexuality
Really I don't envisage a future in which the UK adopts sharia law. My vision of dystopia is a communal one, where people increasingly identify as members of an ethnic or religious community, and the government enforces employment quotas, governs through the medium of "community leaders" and imposes ever more stringent curbs on speech.
That's far more consistent with current policies, and represents the outworking of socially liberal beliefs.
I'm getting more and more confident that Labour MP John Woodcock will resign as an MP if Corbyn wins. Whether he'll stand as an Indy or not is another question.
Surely he would stand again, either for Labour if they'd have him or as an independent if not. It makes no sense to resign and then leave the field to the unilateralists with only other parties to compete against them (unless he could be persuaded to stand for another party, though that would undermine his principle).
Unilateralists are not going to get many votes in Barrow, home of BAE Systems submarine boatbuilder.
Indeed not. However, a Corbyn-led party would be accused of being unilateralist-friendly at the very least whatever the candidate's individual views.
That is true, I do not expect Labour to win in places were there are many defence industry jobs. Barrow is one of the very few seats of that type still in Labour hands.
I do not believe that current trends point to social liberalism (or indeed "British values") being unsustainable.
.
s evidence that another group will behave in the same way.
Ifor longer mellow in this regard.
This is actively specious. Just a bunch of lies. The evidence points in quite the opposite direction: that British Muslim views have echoed the world of Islam as a whole (which you'd expect) and become MORE conservative over time.
A decade ago burqas and niqabs were barely seen. Now they're on every high street. Look at the polling of British Muslims, 2nd and 3rd generation, on things like sharia, homosexuality, apostasy, ISIS. It is alarming. Look at the kids running off to Syria to behead people and enslave Yazidi girls. Unimaginable ten years ago.
Yet you prattle on about Muslims resident in Britain "mellowing out".
Idiot.
But I cannot countenance being called an idiot when it is quite clear none of this stuff was "unimaginable ten years ago".
10 years ago, we had the 7/7 bombings carried out by young, Muslim extremists.
Three were born in this country.
You are arguing against your own point though!
First Gen Immigrants know how crap it was living in Islamic countries, that's why they left
2nd and 3rd Gen seem to see the "old country" as some pure 14th C paradise, a view only allowed to form because they've never lived there...
Its getting worse because it is Strict Islam mixed with 21st Century Western propaganda and technology
From 2009, The Guardian
British Muslims have zero tolerance for Homosexuality
Really I don't envisage a future in which the UK adopts sharia law. My vision of dystopia is a communal one, where people increasingly identify as members of an ethnic or religious community, and the government enforces employment quotas, governs through the medium of "community leaders" and imposes ever more stringent curbs on speech.
That's far more consistent with current policies, and represents the outworking of socially liberal beliefs.
I don't see the UK adopting sharia law, but I do see the communalism you suggest leading to one of the factions demanding it, and the worst case scenario being a state in the middle east backing them up with force
I do not believe that current trends point to social liberalism (or indeed "British values") being unsustainable.
.
s evidence that another group will behave in the same way.
Ifor longer mellow in this regard.
This is actively specious. Just a bunch of lies. The evidence points in quite the opposite direction: that British Muslim views have echoed the world of Islam as a whole (which you'd expect) and become MORE conservative over time.
A decade ago burqas and niqabs were barely seen. Now they're on every high street. Look at the polling of British Muslims, 2nd and 3rd generation, on things like sharia, homosexuality, apostasy,
Yet you prattle on about Muslims resident in Britain "mellowi
Idiot.
The main study was done on age, not a change of study viewpoint.
Younger Muslims do tend to hold more extreme views than older ones.
You can say that is the mass conversion of young Muslims to alternative creeds, or you can see it as a mellowing out. Probably both. I don't really want to take issue on that front.
But I cannot countenance being called an idiot when it is quite clear none of this stuff was "unimaginable ten years ago".
10 years ago, we had the 7/7 bombings carried out by young, Muslim extremists.
Three were born in this country.
You are arguing against your own point though!
First Gen Immigrants know how crap it was living in Islamic countries, that's why they left
2nd and 3rd Gen seem to see the "old country" as some pure 14th C paradise, a view only allowed to form because they've never lived there...
Its getting worse because it is Strict Islam mixed with 21st Century Western propaganda and technology
From 2009, The Guardian
British Muslims have zero tolerance for Homosexuality
Really I don't envisage a future in which the UK adopts sharia law. My vision of dystopia is a communal one, where people increasingly identify as members of an ethnic or religious community, and the government enforces employment quotas, governs through the medium of "community leaders" and imposes ever more stringent curbs on speech.
That's far more consistent with current policies, and represents the outworking of socially liberal beliefs.
I'd recommend Anthony Wells' alternative history novel "What if Gordon Banks Had Played?"
I joined the Tories to put my money where my concerns were re Miliband. I felt I couldn't bitch about either side if I didn't at least make an effort to do my bit.
Kendall got my first vote Cooper my second preference
No one got my third or fourth preference, if neither Cooper nor Kendall win I leave the party.
The point is the party will have left you. If you are wondering how then try one of those face morphing programmes. I must say i'm not sure what to make of it, but I can say i'm glad its not happened to the Tory party.
When IDS won I knew several Tories who left the party, they did not return until Michael Howard replaced him at the earliest. However the Tories also saw an influx of some rightwing UKIP types at the same time
There's no way there won't be defections - maybe members and a few councillors jumping ship to Lib and Con might provide encouragement for the odd MP to make the big leap!
I don't think there will be many defections to Farron's LDs or the Tories, it will be more a case of people allowing their membership to lapse
You don't think that some of the more moderate members aren't going to at least make a point of sending back their membership cards?
I've never been a member of a party, but I think if Corbyn wins this I might just join the Tories, if only to help ensure that they replace Cameron with a similarly sensible new leader when the time comes.
I guess if we are going to have a one-party State, then it can't be a bad thing to be a member of the Party.
I'm getting more and more confident that Labour MP John Woodcock will resign as an MP if Corbyn wins. Whether he'll stand as an Indy or not is another question.
Surely he would stand again, either for Labour if they'd have him or as an independent if not. It makes no sense to resign and then leave the field to the unilateralists with only other parties to compete against them (unless he could be persuaded to stand for another party, though that would undermine his principle).
Unilateralists are not going to get many votes in Barrow, home of BAE Systems submarine boatbuilder.
It's always strange when people believe there's only one answer to everything.
As an aside, how did the Russians plan to cope with these problems during the Cold War, during any push through to Western Europe? They'd have the same problem in reverse.
Apologies for the delay in replying - I had to go and fight my cat for my share of supper. Herself gave us a special treat tonight liver and onions. The cat is very partial to liver and has terrible table manners. Possibly his welsh upbringing.
Anyway to answer your question. The Sovs never planned to have to do heavy resupply beyond reach of their railheads in East Germany. So it simply was not an issue for them to even consider.
Its only a problem for NATO because it is looking at starting a conflict hundreds of miles East of its existing logistics infrastructure. So the need for heavy resupply is baked into any state on state conflict that will last longer than a few days.
Comments
First Gen Immigrants know how crap it was living in Islamic countries, that's why they left
2nd and 3rd Gen seem to see the "old country" as some pure 14th C paradise, a view only allowed to form because they've never lived there...
Its getting worse because it is Strict Islam mixed with 21st Century Western propaganda and technology
From 2009, The Guardian
British Muslims have zero tolerance for Homosexuality
0/500 said it was acceptable
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/may/07/muslims-britain-france-germany-homosexuality
I'm beginning to think this is a bad idea.
https://twitter.com/MichaelPDeacon/status/633647731463077893/photo/1
Cooper my second preference
No one got my third or fourth preference, if neither Cooper nor Kendall win I leave the party.
He was caught at Heathrow & is refusing to appear in court, Adeyemi Adekeyi
BTW Third rail all the way out to Weymouth, man!
We've had domestic and international terrorism, race riots, sectarian violence.
None has proven to hold the country back for long.
Extreme Islam is a problem Britain must face, but some dystopian vision of a future socially conservative UK is wide of the mark.
On another note and combining your love of engineering with matters military. I was reading a report the other day about the work the Septics have been doing to see if they could sustain combat operations in Eastern Europe. As one might expect, given the distances involved, logistics came top of the list of barriers. They seem to discovered for the first time that Eastern Europe has a different gauge of railways to Western Europe. Astonishing really, given that these fellows are supposedly the cream of the US military.
But apparently not. If you refuse to leave your cell the court goes to you (no doubt at ridiculous expense to taxpayers).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-33909976
(I suggest you vary your lines from those you gave a couple of weeks ago)
Used to ply the long-distance routes out of Waterloo, nowadays they do the Victoria to Gatwick Express.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_442
Meant to say the Labour Party membership is going to become much more LEFT wing in the medium term.
An email from Liz 4 leader!
My ballot paper is now filled in.
Finally went LK-JC-YC-AB
Deputy was SC-CF-TW-AE-BB
Now to post it on my way home from the pub
As an aside, how did the Russians plan to cope with these problems during the Cold War, during any push through to Western Europe? They'd have the same problem in reverse.
I've never been a member of a party, but I think if Corbyn wins this I might just join the Tories, if only to help ensure that they replace Cameron with a similarly sensible new leader when the time comes.
Like you, best to get it over and done with mind otherwise you'll be reduced to Woody Allen's anxious twin.
Used to ply the long-distance routes out of Waterloo, nowadays they do the Victoria to Gatwick Express.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_442
JC is mainly for gits and shiggles.
YC is continuity Brown
AB is continuity EdM
They will not want socilaists taking them over the way the Marxists are taking over Labour.
I think you're probably a bit too young to get Caroline Flint
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-06/paddy-power-left-red-faced-after-early-payout-on-greek-vote
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/bookie-admits-blunder-after-yes-payout-1.824296
Third rail has some severe limitation that anyone whose brain has not been addled by too much commuting can easily grasp.
That's far more consistent with current policies, and represents the outworking of socially liberal beliefs.
Not to mention he will increase the suspicion and hatred about blairites inside Labour, so far all the accusations about them are mostly without confirmation, a Tory win in a by-election caused by a blairite will provide a lot of ammunition to the anti-blairites.
Anyway to answer your question. The Sovs never planned to have to do heavy resupply beyond reach of their railheads in East Germany. So it simply was not an issue for them to even consider.
Its only a problem for NATO because it is looking at starting a conflict hundreds of miles East of its existing logistics infrastructure. So the need for heavy resupply is baked into any state on state conflict that will last longer than a few days.
Barrow is one of the very few seats of that type still in Labour hands.
'Burnham has said Labour spent too much unlike Cooper and has a positive poll rating unlike Cooper.'
After the polling disaster in May how can you take any polls seriously?
People in West Dunbartonshire vote SNP.
2 (Two) New Threads
https://twitter.com/jessbrammar/status/633723208005517314
Perhaps I could sell the US military this method of changing gauges:
http://www.narrow-gauge-pleasure.co.uk/images/manitrans.jpg