I was worried I was going to be burned out/bored of politics after the election, but this Labour leadership has been so energising.
I have found it a bit depressing to be honest and have probably been posting less as a result. A competent government needs.a competent opposition. We don't have one.
The really depressing thing is that it has been shown that there is a significant chunk of Labour that actually think like Jeremy: brainless, thoughtless anti-American, anti capitalist morons. Most large political parties have their share of nutters. Even a post UKIP Tory party has some. But for these idiots to get where they have shows a once mighty institution to be terminally sick.
It depressed me as it reminded me of our IDS phase.
But if they elect him, I think it will force Labour to confront reality, we weren't stupid enough to put IDS to the country.
As SeanF has said, electing Corbyn is more akin to the Tories having elected Theresa Gorman or Tony Marlow.
Moderate Labour MPs have been in discissions how to overthrow hard Left Jeremy Corbyn if he is crowned Labour leader next month, The Telegraph can disclose.
The MPs are understood to have held informal talks about challenging Mr Corbyn when Parliament returns to work next month.
This could see Mr Corbyn fighting for his political life at the party’s annual conference, just days after he has been elected leader.
I don't follow their logic, to be honest. If Corbyn wins, and is to be the disaster they think, sure they may well need to fight him, and pretty early on too. But mere days? He surely has to be seen to fail on his own terms for a time at least, otherwise there's even less chance of the Left taking it reasonably when he falls (or more likely, is persuaded to step down - he surely would rather do that than see the Tories win). Are they afraid he will do well, or at least enjoy a honeymoon period that would risk the party being too weak to take him on later?
I was worried I was going to be burned out/bored of politics after the election, but this Labour leadership has been so energising.
I have found it a bit depressing to be honest and have probably been posting less as a result. A competent government needs.a competent opposition. We don't have one.
The really depressing thing is that it has been shown that there is a significant chunk of Labour that actually think like Jeremy: brainless, thoughtless anti-American, anti capitalist morons. Most large political parties have their share of nutters. Even a post UKIP Tory party has some. But for these idiots to get where they have shows a once mighty institution to be terminally sick.
It depressed me as it reminded me of our IDS phase.
But if they elect him, I think it will force Labour to confront reality, we weren't stupid enough to put IDS to the country.
Yes the IDS was a similar level of lunacy. Another serial rebel put in charge with no idea what to do next. But at least he didn't support people who thought killing British soldiers was a good thing. That is another whole level of madness for a party wanting elected (presumably).
Jeremy Corbyn has a thirty year Parliamentary record to go over. Given what we've seen so far, I'm assuming there are plenty more tasty morsels to amuse our palates yet.
I am not a Corbyn supporter, but it is surely sad that a 30 year parliamentary career is just a source of juicy stories.
If so, we're doomed to be governed by foetuses and empty suits.
A long career is only a worthwhile career if it is devoted to good causes. Jeremy Corbyn has snuggled up to a remarkable number of awful causes. We can expect more to emerge.
Of course, the ABC candidates are so useless that it has only just occurred to them to go digging.
Andy Burnham has been an MP for 14 years, witohut attracting anything like the skeletons.
I think it's clear by their frothing and false bravado the PB Tories are rattled. They've won their first majority in decades on a historically record low vote, and with absolutely minimal enthusiasm even amongst their voters. And it's only downhill from here. Now they don't even have the safety net of a weak, acquiescent, pointless Labour Party facing them. The spectre of a genuine grassroots movement in control of a mainstream party is looming, which after a few more years of broken promises and declining living standards will be looking more and more attractive. Because they will make such an effort to rig the next election using all the establishment levers at their disposal - reducing the number of MPs whilst stacking the unelected lords, making it harder for the poor and rootless to vote, amongst many other nefarious plans - they'll be very hard to turf out next time. But their majority can certainly be scuppered, rendering them toothless and moribund (no other party will go into coalition with them for many years after seeing how the lib dems were chewed up and spat out) and the rules of the game will be changed for the next political generation.
This is it guys - enjoy the next month, have your fun, enjoy your hubris - it's downhill from here.
Not sure what happened to Tories for Corbyn. I think most non Lab voters on who snook through the net here voted against Jezza as 1st choice.
I'll be voting for the Tory lass 1st choice.
Have a sub 50% bet on Jezza I need to try and win. Liz is going out 1st round anyway so it's effectively a vote for Jez
Actually, unlike Wiseman, whom I do like but I really do not agree with at the minute; I think you have something here. The horse thing is great. I'm ready to jump on---yeeee haaaaaa. Go Jezza you ole buckin boy.
I still think Labour need a Corbyn win. They're fecked at the minute- if you think the likes of Burnham and Cooper are the answer, then gawd knows what question you're asking and the whole drawn out leadership contest has been an embarrassment. Labour need something radical to shake them up, to make them realise just how out of touch they've become. Sure, he's unelectable, but Corbyn is that something to bring it all crashing down. It's gonna be a wild ride for the next few years, but Labour need to get on the horse!
I think it's clear by their frothing and false bravado the PB Tories are rattled. They've won their first majority in decades on a historically record low vote, and with absolutely minimal enthusiasm even amongst their voters. And it's only downhill from here. Now they don't even have the safety net of a weak, acquiescent, pointless Labour Party facing them. The spectre of a genuine grassroots movement in control of a mainstream party is looming, which after a few more years of broken promises and declining living standards will be looking more and more attractive. Because they will make such an effort to rig the next election using all the establishment levers at their disposal - reducing the number of MPs whilst stacking the unelected lords, making it harder for the poor and rootless to vote, amongst many other nefarious plans - they'll be very hard to turf out next time. But their majority can certainly be scuppered, rendering them toothless and moribund (no other party will go into coalition with them for many years after seeing how the lib dems were chewed up and spat out) and the rules of the game will be changed for the next political generation.
This is it guys - enjoy the next month, have your fun, enjoy your hubris - it's downhill from here.
Corbyn could face Labour MPs' coup 'within days of being elected leader'
Moderate Labour MPs have been in discissions how to overthrow hard Left Jeremy Corbyn if he is crowned Labour leader next month, The Telegraph can disclose.
The MPs are understood to have held informal talks about challenging Mr Corbyn when Parliament returns to work next month.
This could see Mr Corbyn fighting for his political life at the party’s annual conference, just days after he has been elected leader.
I was worried I was going to be burned out/bored of politics after the election, but this Labour leadership has been so energising.
I have found it a bit depressing to be honest and have probably been posting less as a result. A competent government needs.a competent opposition. We don't have one.
The really depressing thing is that it has been shown that there is a significant chunk of Labour that actually think like Jeremy: brainless, thoughtless anti-American, anti capitalist morons. Most large political parties have their share of nutters. Even a post UKIP Tory party has some. But for these idiots to get where they have shows a once mighty institution to be terminally sick.
It depressed me as it reminded me of our IDS phase.
But if they elect him, I think it will force Labour to confront reality, we weren't stupid enough to put IDS to the country.
As SeanF has said, electing Corbyn is more akin to the Tories having elected Theresa Gorman or Tony Marlow.
Jeremy Corbyn has a thirty year Parliamentary record to go over. Given what we've seen so far, I'm assuming there are plenty more tasty morsels to amuse our palates yet.
I am not a Corbyn supporter, but it is surely sad that a 30 year parliamentary career is just a source of juicy stories.
If so, we're doomed to be governed by foetuses and empty suits.
He chose his causes and he chose the fight he's taken on now.
I can't believe someone at uni doesn't know what a blog is. Especially given how much my generation knows about technology and the internet in general.
What are you up to at Uni? Seem quite interested in current affairs.
Is education wasted if you take a job that doesn't need it? Only if you consider that all investments need to be repaid in cold cash rather than personal development.
Politics and History
I think for many, going to uni is better than being unemployed for 3 years. Also, it feels like having a degree is mandatory to even compete in the job market.
Reddit's website layout is terrible. God I hate that site.
As for tumblr, the whole point of it is setting up your own blog, and then posting things (whether it be written posts, gifs, pictures etc) or reblogging the stuff your followers post (or reblog) which you can see on your dash. So anyone on tumblr who doesn't know what a blog is....well I'm worried for them.
Well, Miss, I would class a nonsense degree as one which will be regarded as such by any potential employer. You can do your own research to find good examples but they are commonly found under the heading of Joint Honours issued by low grade universities; Medieval Pottery and Flower Arranging, Dance and Computer Studies, that sort of thing.
Please don't tell me about the academic rigour that is an essential part of all degrees, I have sat on the boards verifying some of rubbish that an ex-poly flogs to innocent, unsuspecting dupes, I mean students.
There are some ex-ploys that are decent e.g. Keele and Brunel. All the others tend be 'meh' though.
And I've never met anyone who has done those degrees.
I think it's clear by their frothing and false bravado the PB Tories are rattled. They've won their first majority in decades on a historically record low vote, and with absolutely minimal enthusiasm even amongst their voters. And it's only downhill from here. Now they don't even have the safety net of a weak, acquiescent, pointless Labour Party facing them. The spectre of a genuine grassroots movement in control of a mainstream party is looming, which after a few more years of broken promises and declining living standards will be looking more and more attractive. Because they will make such an effort to rig the next election using all the establishment levers at their disposal - reducing the number of MPs whilst stacking the unelected lords, making it harder for the poor and rootless to vote, amongst many other nefarious plans - they'll be very hard to turf out next time. But their majority can certainly be scuppered, rendering them toothless and moribund (no other party will go into coalition with them for many years after seeing how the lib dems were chewed up and spat out) and the rules of the game will be changed for the next political generation.
This is it guys - enjoy the next month, have your fun, enjoy your hubris - it's downhill from here.
Not sure what happened to Tories for Corbyn. I think most non Lab voters on who snook through the net here voted against Jezza as 1st choice.
I'll be voting for the Tory lass 1st choice.
Have a sub 50% bet on Jezza I need to try and win. Liz is going out 1st round anyway so it's effectively a vote for Jez
I reckon Kendall will come last but not as badly last as the polls suggest
Jeremy Corbyn has a thirty year Parliamentary record to go over. Given what we've seen so far, I'm assuming there are plenty more tasty morsels to amuse our palates yet.
I am not a Corbyn supporter, but it is surely sad that a 30 year parliamentary career is just a source of juicy stories.
If so, we're doomed to be governed by foetuses and empty suits.
He chose his causes and he chose the fight he's taken on now.
Churchill and Thatcher would not win the leadership today. Too much form.
I think it's clear by their frothing and false bravado the PB Tories are rattled. They've won their first majority in decades on a historically record low vote, and with absolutely minimal enthusiasm even amongst their voters. And it's only downhill from here. Now they don't even have the safety net of a weak, acquiescent, pointless Labour Party facing them. The spectre of a genuine grassroots movement in control of a mainstream party is looming, which after a few more years of broken promises and declining living standards will be looking more and more attractive. Because they will make such an effort to rig the next election using all the establishment levers at their disposal - reducing the number of MPs whilst stacking the unelected lords, making it harder for the poor and rootless to vote, amongst many other nefarious plans - they'll be very hard to turf out next time. But their majority can certainly be scuppered, rendering them toothless and moribund (no other party will go into coalition with them for many years after seeing how the lib dems were chewed up and spat out) and the rules of the game will be changed for the next political generation.
This is it guys - enjoy the next month, have your fun, enjoy your hubris - it's downhill from here.
That's what you said prior to May, particularly to those PB Tories who were saying the Tories would get 300 plus MP
No - I didn't think labour deserved to win as they were being so gutless, and I thought Miliband was a waste of space, but thought they would squeeze in by default given the (obviously not to be trusted) polls and other factors. I misjudged the sheer malevolent ruthlessness of the Tories (which I begrudgingly admire in a sort of rooting for the villain kind of way) and their ability to stand beside the lib dems (in the UK) and labour (in Scotland) and then turn around and destroy them with their own toxicity before sweeping up control of the ashes. However the Tories have blown their paltry wads on that front and its downhill all the way. My only mistake was in the timing - like something from a horror film, I should have remembered they keep coming back. But they will be screwed for a long time before long in the grand scheme of things.
Moderate Labour MPs have been in discissions how to overthrow hard Left Jeremy Corbyn if he is crowned Labour leader next month, The Telegraph can disclose.
The MPs are understood to have held informal talks about challenging Mr Corbyn when Parliament returns to work next month.
This could see Mr Corbyn fighting for his political life at the party’s annual conference, just days after he has been elected leader.
I don't follow their logic, to be honest. If Corbyn wins, and is to be the disaster they think, sure they may well need to fight him, and pretty early on too. But mere days? He surely has to be seen to fail on his own terms for a time at least, otherwise there's even less chance of the Left taking it reasonably when he falls (or more likely, is persuaded to step down - he surely would rather do that than see the Tories win). Are they afraid he will do well, or at least enjoy a honeymoon period that would risk the party being too weak to take him on later?
There’s a real sense of panic amongst a lot of otherwise sensible Labour MPs – they just feel they need to say ‘something’ no matter how stupid or implausible.
I think it's clear by their frothing and false bravado the PB Tories are rattled. They've won their first majority in decades on a historically record low vote, and with absolutely minimal enthusiasm even amongst their voters. And it's only downhill from here. Now they don't even have the safety net of a weak, acquiescent, pointless Labour Party facing them. The spectre of a genuine grassroots movement in control of a mainstream party is looming, which after a few more years of broken promises and declining living standards will be looking more and more attractive. Because they will make such an effort to rig the next election using all the establishment levers at their disposal - reducing the number of MPs whilst stacking the unelected lords, making it harder for the poor and rootless to vote, amongst many other nefarious plans - they'll be very hard to turf out next time. But their majority can certainly be scuppered, rendering them toothless and moribund (no other party will go into coalition with them for many years after seeing how the lib dems were chewed up and spat out) and the rules of the game will be changed for the next political generation.
This is it guys - enjoy the next month, have your fun, enjoy your hubris - it's downhill from here.
That's what you said prior to May, particularly to those PB Tories who were saying the Tories would get 300 plus MP
No - I didn't think labour deserved to win as they were being so gutless, and I thought Miliband was a waste of space, but thought they would squeeze in by default given the (obviously not to be trusted) polls and other factors. I misjudged the sheer malevolent ruthlessness of the Tories (which I begrudgingly admire in a sort of rooting for the villain kind of way) and their ability to stand beside the lib dems (in the UK) and labour (in Scotland) and then turn around and destroy them with their own toxicity before sweeping up control of the ashes. However the Tories have blown their paltry wads on that front and its downhill all the way. My only mistake was in the timing - like something from a horro film, I should have remembered they keep coming back. But they will be screwed for a long time before long in the grand scheme of things.
I think it's clear by their frothing and false bravado the PB Tories are rattled.
Usually Roger runs away with the "stupidest comment of the year" but it looks like he will have some competition for once.
PB Tories laughed at Ed winning, and that laughter was dismissed by Labour supporters, but it was sincere, and we all know they were right, Labour picked a loser.
Now Jeremy Corbyn is the sort of Labour candidate PB Tories dream of, he makes Ed Miliband look palatable, if anything PB Tories simply can not believe that Labour are about to do what Labour are about to do. Rest assured PB Tories really do think he will be a total f*cking disaster for Labour Party. Only time will tell if they are correct, but do not doubt their sincerity, they mean what they say.
I think it's clear by their frothing and false bravado the PB Tories are rattled. They've won their first majority in decades on a historically record low vote, and with absolutely minimal enthusiasm even amongst their voters. And it's only downhill from here. Now they don't even have the safety net of a weak, acquiescent, pointless Labour Party facing them. The spectre of a genuine grassroots movement in control of a mainstream party is looming, which after a few more years of broken promises and declining living standards will be looking more and more attractive. Because they will make such an effort to rig the next election using all the establishment levers at their disposal - reducing the number of MPs whilst stacking the unelected lords, making it harder for the poor and rootless to vote, amongst many other nefarious plans - they'll be very hard to turf out next time. But their majority can certainly be scuppered, rendering them toothless and moribund (no other party will go into coalition with them for many years after seeing how the lib dems were chewed up and spat out) and the rules of the game will be changed for the next political generation.
This is it guys - enjoy the next month, have your fun, enjoy your hubris - it's downhill from here.
Not sure what happened to Tories for Corbyn. I think most non Lab voters on PB who sneeked through the net here voted against Jezza as 1st choice.
I suggest that the vast majority of non Lab Corbyn Supporters will just be keeping quiet and voting.
Anyone really intending to do some damage - e g if my cat Mr Felix Domesticus had a vote - would be far more effective as ridicule after the result is announced.
Actually, unlike Wiseman, whom I do like but I really do not agree with at the minute; I think you have something here. The horse thing is great. I'm ready to jump on---yeeee haaaaaa. Go Jezza you ole buckin boy.
I still think Labour need a Corbyn win. They're fecked at the minute- if you think the likes of Burnham and Cooper are the answer, then gawd knows what question you're asking and the whole drawn out leadership contest has been an embarrassment. Labour need something radical to shake them up, to make them realise just how out of touch they've become. Sure, he's unelectable, but Corbyn is that something to bring it all crashing down. It's gonna be a wild ride for the next few years, but Labour need to get on the horse!
But is electing Corbyn with the intent of getting rid of him any more sensible than nominating Corbyn with the intent of getting rid of him?
Who knows, maybe Corbyn could be elected PM by the general public - purely with the intent of getting rid of him, you understand?
30 years ago when there were only 3 channels, it would be a serious loss. But now, with hundred of alternatives on offer, the departure of BBC2 would be tolerable. Perhaps the corporation would focus on quality rather than quantity.
Interesting that the threat was to reduce the availability of what the license fee payer is handing their hard earned cash over for, rather than slashing management numbers. It says a lot about the mind-set over at Broadcasting House.
I think it's clear by their frothing and false bravado the PB Tories are rattled. They've won their first majority in decades on a historically record low vote, and with absolutely minimal enthusiasm even amongst their voters. And it's only downhill from here. Now they don't even have the safety net of a weak, acquiescent, pointless Labour Party facing them. The spectre of a genuine grassroots movement in control of a mainstream party is looming, which after a few more years of broken promises and declining living standards will be looking more and more attractive. Because they will make such an effort to rig the next election using all the establishment levers at their disposal - reducing the number of MPs whilst stacking the unelected lords, making it harder for the poor and rootless to vote, amongst many other nefarious plans - they'll be very hard to turf out next time. But their majority can certainly be scuppered, rendering them toothless and moribund (no other party will go into coalition with them for many years after seeing how the lib dems were chewed up and spat out) and the rules of the game will be changed for the next political generation.
This is it guys - enjoy the next month, have your fun, enjoy your hubris - it's downhill from here.
That's what you said prior to May, particularly to those PB Tories who were saying the Tories would get 300 plus MP
No - I didn't think labour deserved to win as they were being so gutless, and I thought Miliband was a waste of space, but thought they would squeeze in by default given the (obviously not to be trusted) polls and other factors. I misjudged the sheer malevolent ruthlessness of the Tories (which I begrudgingly admire in a sort of rooting for the villain kind of way) and their ability to stand beside the lib dems (in the UK) and labour (in Scotland) and then turn around and destroy them with their own toxicity before sweeping up control of the ashes. However the Tories have blown their paltry wads on that front and its downhill all the way. My only mistake was in the timing - like something from a horror film, I should have remembered they keep coming back. But they will be screwed for a long time before long in the grand scheme of things.
When MaxPB talked about the possibility of the Tories having 300 plus MPs you said
Not going to happen, unless you are living in PB Tory fantasist world. Oh right…
I think it's clear by their frothing and false bravado the PB Tories are rattled. They've won their first majority in decades on a historically record low vote, and with absolutely minimal enthusiasm even amongst their voters. And it's only downhill from here. Now they don't even have the safety net of a weak, acquiescent, pointless Labour Party facing them. The spectre of a genuine grassroots movement in control of a mainstream party is looming, which after a few more years of broken promises and declining living standards will be looking more and more attractive. Because they will make such an effort to rig the next election using all the establishment levers at their disposal - reducing the number of MPs whilst stacking the unelected lords, making it harder for the poor and rootless to vote, amongst many other nefarious plans - they'll be very hard to turf out next time. But their majority can certainly be scuppered, rendering them toothless and moribund (no other party will go into coalition with them for many years after seeing how the lib dems were chewed up and spat out) and the rules of the game will be changed for the next political generation.
This is it guys - enjoy the next month, have your fun, enjoy your hubris - it's downhill from here.
That's what you said prior to May, particularly to those PB Tories who were saying the Tories would get 300 plus MP
No - I didn't think labour deserved to win as they were being so gutless, and I thought Miliband was a waste of space, but thought they would squeeze in by default given the (obviously not to be trusted) polls and other factors. I misjudged the sheer malevolent ruthlessness of the Tories (which I begrudgingly admire in a sort of rooting for the villain kind of way) and their ability to stand beside the lib dems (in the UK) and labour (in Scotland) and then turn around and destroy them with their own toxicity before sweeping up control of the ashes. However the Tories have blown their paltry wads on that front and its downhill all the way. My only mistake was in the timing - like something from a horror film, I should have remembered they keep coming back. But they will be screwed for a long time before long in the grand scheme of things.
When MaxPB talked about the possibility of the Tories having 300 plus MPs you said
Not going to happen, unless you are living in PB Tory fantasist world. Oh right…
Jeremy Corbyn has a thirty year Parliamentary record to go over. Given what we've seen so far, I'm assuming there are plenty more tasty morsels to amuse our palates yet.
I am not a Corbyn supporter, but it is surely sad that a 30 year parliamentary career is just a source of juicy stories.
If so, we're doomed to be governed by foetuses and empty suits.
He chose his causes and he chose the fight he's taken on now.
Churchill and Thatcher would not win the leadership today. Too much form.
Churchill would certainly not as he was only trusted with domestic policy in 1951 by which time he had stopped ranting about fakirs and Gestapos, while the Thatcher-era equivalent is Keith Joseph who indeed had form.
I think it's clear by their frothing and false bravado the PB Tories are rattled. They've won their first majority in decades on a historically record low vote, and with absolutely minimal enthusiasm even amongst their voters. And it's only downhill from here. Now they don't even have the safety net of a weak, acquiescent, pointless Labour Party facing them. The spectre of a genuine grassroots movement in control of a mainstream party is looming, which after a few more years of broken promises and declining living standards will be looking more and more attractive. Because they will make such an effort to rig the next election using all the establishment levers at their disposal - reducing the number of MPs whilst stacking the unelected lords, making it harder for the poor and rootless to vote, amongst many other nefarious plans - they'll be very hard to turf out next time. But their majority can certainly be scuppered, rendering them toothless and moribund (no other party will go into coalition with them for many years after seeing how the lib dems were chewed up and spat out) and the rules of the game will be changed for the next political generation.
This is it guys - enjoy the next month, have your fun, enjoy your hubris - it's downhill from here.
That's what you said prior to May, particularly to those PB Tories who were saying the Tories would get 300 plus MP
No - I didn't think labour deserved to win as they were being so gutless, and I thought Miliband was a waste of space, but thought they would squeeze in by default given the (obviously not to be trusted) polls and other factors. I misjudged the sheer malevolent ruthlessness of the Tories (which I begrudgingly admire in a sort of rooting for the villain kind of way) and their ability to stand beside the lib dems (in the UK) and labour (in Scotland) and then turn around and destroy them with their own toxicity before sweeping up control of the ashes. However the Tories have blown their paltry wads on that front and its downhill all the way. My only mistake was in the timing - like something from a horror film, I should have remembered they keep coming back. But they will be screwed for a long time before long in the grand scheme of things.
When MaxPB talked about the possibility of the Tories having 300 plus MPs you said
Not going to happen, unless you are living in PB Tory fantasist world. Oh right…
I think it's clear by their frothing and false bravado the PB Tories are rattled. They've won their first majority in decades on a historically record low vote, and with absolutely minimal enthusiasm even amongst their voters. And it's only downhill from here. Now they don't even have the safety net of a weak, acquiescent, pointless Labour Party facing them. The spectre of a genuine grassroots movement in control of a mainstream party is looming, which after a few more years of broken promises and declining living standards will be looking more and more attractive. Because they will make such an effort to rig the next election using all the establishment levers at their disposal - reducing the number of MPs whilst stacking the unelected lords, making it harder for the poor and rootless to vote, amongst many other nefarious plans - they'll be very hard to turf out next time. But their majority can certainly be scuppered, rendering them toothless and moribund (no other party will go into coalition with them for many years after seeing how the lib dems were chewed up and spat out) and the rules of the game will be changed for the next political generation.
This is it guys - enjoy the next month, have your fun, enjoy your hubris - it's downhill from here.
That's what you said prior to May, particularly to those PB Tories who were saying the Tories would get 300 plus MP
No - I didn't think labour deserved to win as they were being so gutless, and I thought Miliband was a waste of space, but thought they would squeeze in by default given the (obviously not to be trusted) polls and other factors. I misjudged the sheer malevolent ruthlessness of the Tories (which I begrudgingly admire in a sort of rooting for the villain kind of way) and their ability to stand beside the lib dems (in the UK) and labour (in Scotland) and then turn around and destroy them with their own toxicity before sweeping up control of the ashes. However the Tories have blown their paltry wads on that front and its downhill all the way. My only mistake was in the timing - like something from a horror film, I should have remembered they keep coming back. But they will be screwed for a long time before long in the grand scheme of things.
When MaxPB talked about the possibility of the Tories having 300 plus MPs you said
Not going to happen, unless you are living in PB Tory fantasist world. Oh right…
As I said I underestimated the Tories ability to deploy their own toxicity to their own nefarious advantage. They've blown that wad now and don't have much left to play with.
Corbyn could face Labour MPs' coup 'within days of being elected leader'
Moderate Labour MPs have been in discissions how to overthrow hard Left Jeremy Corbyn if he is crowned Labour leader next month, The Telegraph can disclose.
The MPs are understood to have held informal talks about challenging Mr Corbyn when Parliament returns to work next month.
This could see Mr Corbyn fighting for his political life at the party’s annual conference, just days after he has been elected leader.
As I said I underestimated the Tories ability to deploy their own toxicity to their own nefarious advantage. They've blown that wad now and don't have much left to play with.
I still think Labour need a Corbyn win. They're fecked at the minute- if you think the likes of Burnham and Cooper are the answer, then gawd knows what question you're asking and the whole drawn out leadership contest has been an embarrassment. Labour need something radical to shake them up, to make them realise just how out of touch they've become. Sure, he's unelectable, but Corbyn is that something to bring it all crashing down. It's gonna be a wild ride for the next few years, but Labour need to get on the horse!
It's been a revelation to me to discover just how conservative very left wing people are. It seems the ideas haven't developed since 1970 - 1980.
I still think Labour need a Corbyn win. They're fecked at the minute- if you think the likes of Burnham and Cooper are the answer, then gawd knows what question you're asking and the whole drawn out leadership contest has been an embarrassment. Labour need something radical to shake them up, to make them realise just how out of touch they've become. Sure, he's unelectable, but Corbyn is that something to bring it all crashing down. It's gonna be a wild ride for the next few years, but Labour need to get on the horse!
It's been a revelation to me to discover just how conservative very left wing people are. It seems the ideas haven't developed since 1970 - 1980.
No, we just prefer policies from 1970-1980 to policies from 1870-1880.
Make a list of the enemies of Britain and the British way of life - chances are Jeremy is a fan.
Err... Hezbollah and Hamas have nothing to do with the UK, in fact both are enemies of ISIS who ARE actually enemies of the UK and who were armed by the Tories in Syria and Libya. If you consider israel and the UK's interests to align, maybe, 70% of the population disagree though.
The Tories armed Islamic extremists in Syria, Libya, Afghanistan and many more, all of whom pose a grave threat to normal UK citizens. Jeremy chatted to some people who represent no threat to the UK at all.
He hasn't just met them. He's described them as his friends, and one as an honoured citizen. You can keep on claiming that he "just" met them, but I'll keep on correcting you.
And I'm sure Hamas and Hezbollah are big fans of liberal democratic values.
Jezbollah is going to be the most anti-Western leader any major party in the UK has even chosen.
Sorry but why should we give a flying proverbial if he's anti-'Western'? Anti-British (which he may well be) is a problem. Anti a meaningless but constantly repeated geographical expression meaning everyone who does what America says, is not. In fact, it's refreshing, and considering the inevitable shifts in world status, perhaps diplomatically useful.
Anti-Western is a problem if it means moving us away from the civilised world and cosying up to Putin.
As I said I underestimated the Tories ability to deploy their own toxicity to their own nefarious advantage. They've blown that wad now and don't have much left to play with.
As I said I underestimated the Tories ability to deploy their own toxicity to their own nefarious advantage. They've blown that wad now and don't have much left to play with.
So you were wrong.
PB labourites, always wrong, never learn
Even the most accurate clock has to be adjusted from time to time. Equally the PB Tory brand of stopped timepiece has it's occasional moment of glory.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/08/can-jeremy-corbyn-and-labour-mps-learn-get-along "On the morning of 12 September at the QEII Centre in Westminster, Jeremy Corbyn will be declared the new leader of the Labour Party. This is the outcome that almost all MPs now expect. A result that scriptwriters would have rejected as too outlandish before the contest began is regarded as near inevitable. Given the number of ballots returned in the first week of voting, the game may already be over."
As I said I underestimated the Tories ability to deploy their own toxicity to their own nefarious advantage. They've blown that wad now and don't have much left to play with.
PB labourites, always wrong, never learn
JICILL
I don't think he's crap. I'm putting the finishing touches on Sunday's piece entitled
As I said I underestimated the Tories ability to deploy their own toxicity to their own nefarious advantage. They've blown that wad now and don't have much left to play with.
I think it's clear by their frothing and false bravado the PB Tories are rattled. They've won their first majority in decades on a historically record low vote, and with absolutely minimal enthusiasm even amongst their voters. And it's only downhill from here. Now they don't even have the safety net of a weak, acquiescent, pointless Labour Party facing them. The spectre of a genuine grassroots movement in control of a mainstream party is looming, which after a few more years of broken promises and declining living standards will be looking more and more attractive. Because they will make such an effort to rig the next election using all the establishment levers at their disposal - reducing the number of MPs whilst stacking the unelected lords, making it harder for the poor and rootless to vote, amongst many other nefarious plans - they'll be very hard to turf out next time. But their majority can certainly be scuppered, rendering them toothless and moribund (no other party will go into coalition with them for many years after seeing how the lib dems were chewed up and spat out) and the rules of the game will be changed for the next political generation.
This is it guys - enjoy the next month, have your fun, enjoy your hubris - it's downhill from here.
That's what you said prior to May, particularly to those PB Tories who were saying the Tories would get 300 plus MP
No - I didn't think labour deserved to win as they were being so gutless, and I thought Miliband was a waste of space, but thought they would squeeze in by default given the (obviously not to be trusted) polls and other factors. I misjudged the sheer malevolent ruthlessness of the Tories (which I begrudgingly admire in a sort of rooting for the villain kind of way) and their ability to stand beside the lib dems (in the UK) and labour (in Scotland) and then turn around and destroy them with their own toxicity before sweeping up control of the ashes. However the Tories have blown their paltry wads on that front and its downhill all the way. My only mistake was in the timing - like something from a horror film, I should have remembered they keep coming back. But they will be screwed for a long time before long in the grand scheme of things.
Wrong on so many levels, but most egregious is the notion that Tories only have paltry wads to blow....
Under the legal advice, people known to have voted for other parties according to Labour canvass returns would have been asked to confirm again that they really did support its aims and values. But the party’s procedure committee voted to take no action.
Corbyn could face Labour MPs' coup 'within days of being elected leader'
Moderate Labour MPs have been in discissions how to overthrow hard Left Jeremy Corbyn if he is crowned Labour leader next month, The Telegraph can disclose.
The MPs are understood to have held informal talks about challenging Mr Corbyn when Parliament returns to work next month.
This could see Mr Corbyn fighting for his political life at the party’s annual conference, just days after he has been elected leader.
There was constant chatter about unseating GB from Lab MP's too pre 2010. Sod all happened as they're a bunch of spineless goons. Tbf it gave PB plenty of opportunities for threads, but nothing amounted to much.
Under the legal advice, people known to have voted for other parties according to Labour canvass returns would have been asked to confirm again that they really did support its aims and values. But the party’s procedure committee voted to take no action.
That is what has happened isn't it?
Labour are run by a bunch of incompetents. Until they change this, decisions like this will be made.
Maybe SouthamObserver could have a private chat with you sometime. The Tories aren't rattled, they're cock-a-hoop. Don't forget that even Blair wasn't able to win the popular vote in England in 2005.
I think it's clear by their frothing and false bravado the PB Tories are rattled. They've won their first majority in decades on a historically record low vote, and with absolutely minimal enthusiasm even amongst their voters. And it's only downhill from here. Now they don't even have the safety net of a weak, acquiescent, pointless Labour Party facing them. The spectre of a genuine grassroots movement in control of a mainstream party is looming, which after a few more years of broken promises and declining living standards will be looking more and more attractive. Because they will make such an effort to rig the next election using all the establishment levers at their disposal - reducing the number of MPs whilst stacking the unelected lords, making it harder for the poor and rootless to vote, amongst many other nefarious plans - they'll be very hard to turf out next time. But their majority can certainly be scuppered, rendering them toothless and moribund (no other party will go into coalition with them for many years after seeing how the lib dems were chewed up and spat out) and the rules of the game will be changed for the next political generation.
This is it guys - enjoy the next month, have your fun, enjoy your hubris - it's downhill from here.
As I said I underestimated the Tories ability to deploy their own toxicity to their own nefarious advantage. They've blown that wad now and don't have much left to play with.
On the other hand, they'll be starting from a notional majority of around 50. Labour has a long way to go to catch up, especially with Scotland no longer being an automatic source of 40 seats.
What kind of vile anti-British scum would sell off most of our publically owned assets to foreign oligarchs and states, suborn our foreign policy to overseas powers, arm Islamic extremists who wish us ill, and take their orders from propagandists from the other side of the globe? Oh, and Jeremy is well out of order too, for having supported an end to apartheid, a peaceful solution to the Irish troubles, and a just resolution to the oppression of the Palestinians. All of which has made the world a much more dangerous place for the average citizen of the UK of course.
“I can’t tell you how pleased I am that I nominated Jeremy,” Frank Field, the chair of the work and pensions select committee, told me. “The longer it goes on, the thinner the post-Blair gruel that the other candidates offer us appears. It is going to change the debate and, at the end of the day, we’ll owe Jeremy a huge thanks.”
Maybe SouthamObserver could have a private chat with you sometime. The Tories aren't rattled, they're cock-a-hoop. Don't forget that even Blair wasn't able to win the popular vote in England in 2005.
I think it's clear by their frothing and false bravado the PB Tories are rattled. They've won their first majority in decades on a historically record low vote, and with absolutely minimal enthusiasm even amongst their voters. And it's only downhill from here. Now they don't even have the safety net of a weak, acquiescent, pointless Labour Party facing them. The spectre of a genuine grassroots movement in control of a mainstream party is looming, which after a few more years of broken promises and declining living standards will be looking more and more attractive. Because they will make such an effort to rig the next election using all the establishment levers at their disposal - reducing the number of MPs whilst stacking the unelected lords, making it harder for the poor and rootless to vote, amongst many other nefarious plans - they'll be very hard to turf out next time. But their majority can certainly be scuppered, rendering them toothless and moribund (no other party will go into coalition with them for many years after seeing how the lib dems were chewed up and spat out) and the rules of the game will be changed for the next political generation.
This is it guys - enjoy the next month, have your fun, enjoy your hubris - it's downhill from here.
What kind of vile anti-British scum would sell off most of our publically owned assets to foreign oligarchs and states, suborn our foreign policy to overseas powers, arm Islamic extremists who wish us ill, and take their orders from propagandists from the other side of the globe? Oh, and Jeremy is well out of order too, for having supported an end to apartheid, a peaceful solution to the Irish troubles, and a just resolution to the oppression of the Palestinians. All of which has made the world a much more dangerous place for the average citizen of the UK of course.
Look at yourself as others see you. This kind of stupid stuff is EXACTLY what toxified the Tories, except they had pals of apartheid rather than Hezbollah.
What kind of vile anti-British scum would sell off most of our publically owned assets to foreign oligarchs and states, suborn our foreign policy to overseas powers, arm Islamic extremists who wish us ill, and take their orders from propagandists from the other side of the globe? Oh, and Jeremy is well out of order too, for having supported an end to apartheid, a peaceful solution to the Irish troubles, and a just resolution to the oppression of the Palestinians. All of which has made the world a much more dangerous place for the average citizen of the UK of course.
Hilarious. But thank you anyway for the free psychological profile of the typical leftie nutjob.
What kind of vile anti-British scum would sell off most of our publically owned assets to foreign oligarchs and states, suborn our foreign policy to overseas powers, arm Islamic extremists who wish us ill, and take their orders from propagandists from the other side of the globe? Oh, and Jeremy is well out of order too, for having supported an end to apartheid, a peaceful solution to the Irish troubles, and a just resolution to the oppression of the Palestinians. All of which has made the world a much more dangerous place for the average citizen of the UK of course.
Maybe SouthamObserver could have a private chat with you sometime. The Tories aren't rattled, they're cock-a-hoop. Don't forget that even Blair wasn't able to win the popular vote in England in 2005.
I think it's clear by their frothing and false bravado the PB Tories are rattled. They've won their first majority in decades on a historically record low vote, and with absolutely minimal enthusiasm even amongst their voters. And it's only downhill from here. Now they don't even have the safety net of a weak, acquiescent, pointless Labour Party facing them. The spectre of a genuine grassroots movement in control of a mainstream party is looming, which after a few more years of broken promises and declining living standards will be looking more and more attractive. Because they will make such an effort to rig the next election using all the establishment levers at their disposal - reducing the number of MPs whilst stacking the unelected lords, making it harder for the poor and rootless to vote, amongst many other nefarious plans - they'll be very hard to turf out next time. But their majority can certainly be scuppered, rendering them toothless and moribund (no other party will go into coalition with them for many years after seeing how the lib dems were chewed up and spat out) and the rules of the game will be changed for the next political generation.
This is it guys - enjoy the next month, have your fun, enjoy your hubris - it's downhill from here.
2005?
Well if even Blair at the height of his post-Iraq war popularity and credibility couldn't manage it, who am I to talk?
I think it's clear by their frothing and false bravado the PB Tories are rattled. They've won their first majority in decades on a historically record low vote, and with absolutely minimal enthusiasm even amongst their voters. And it's only downhill from here. Now they don't even have the safety net of a weak, acquiescent, pointless Labour Party facing them. The spectre of a genuine grassroots movement in control of a mainstream party is looming, which after a few more years of broken promises and declining living standards will be looking more and more attractive. Because they will make such an effort to rig the next election using all the establishment levers at their disposal - reducing the number of MPs whilst stacking the unelected lords, making it harder for the poor and rootless to vote, amongst many other nefarious plans - they'll be very hard to turf out next time. But their majority can certainly be scuppered, rendering them toothless and moribund (no other party will go into coalition with them for many years after seeing how the lib dems were chewed up and spat out) and the rules of the game will be changed for the next political generation.
This is it guys - enjoy the next month, have your fun, enjoy your hubris - it's downhill from here.
That's what you said prior to May, particularly to those PB Tories who were saying the Tories would get 300 plus MP
No - I didn't think labour deserved to win as they were being so gutless, and I thought Miliband was a waste of space, but thought they would squeeze in by default given the (obviously not to be trusted) polls and other factors. I misjudged the sheer malevolent ruthlessness of the Tories (which I begrudgingly admire in a sort of rooting for the villain kind of way) and their ability to stand beside the lib dems (in the UK) and labour (in Scotland) and then turn around and destroy them with their own toxicity before sweeping up control of the ashes. However the Tories have blown their paltry wads on that front and its downhill all the way. My only mistake was in the timing - like something from a horror film, I should have remembered they keep coming back. But they will be screwed for a long time before long in the grand scheme of things.
Wrong on so many levels, but most egregious is the notion that Tories only have paltry wads to blow....
There are not enough levels or circles in hell to describe how wrong he is. This simple fact neatly exemplifies how many umm... Labours of Hercules er... Labour are about to go through - win lose or draw.
I still think Labour need a Corbyn win. They're fecked at the minute- if you think the likes of Burnham and Cooper are the answer, then gawd knows what question you're asking and the whole drawn out leadership contest has been an embarrassment. Labour need something radical to shake them up, to make them realise just how out of touch they've become. Sure, he's unelectable, but Corbyn is that something to bring it all crashing down. It's gonna be a wild ride for the next few years, but Labour need to get on the horse!
It's been a revelation to me to discover just how conservative very left wing people are.
Outside of a very few people, I think almost everyone is pretty conservative to be honest. Truly momentous changes are rare, which is presumably why we sometimes make incremental things look like they are more radical than they in fact are.
Hasn’t Cooper had the past 18 years or so to ask these inconvenient questions - why now?
Despite frequent rebellions, I presume in general he can still be counted on to vote more often for the party than against. As such, it's not been worth the central party trying to take him on locally to get him deselected I would have thought. Same sort of principle for all serial rebels, on whatever side. Outright lunacy would not be a concern as they won't impact policy development or public perception - Corbyn could now change both.
What kind of vile anti-British scum would sell off most of our publically owned assets to foreign oligarchs and states, suborn our foreign policy to overseas powers, arm Islamic extremists who wish us ill, and take their orders from propagandists from the other side of the globe? Oh, and Jeremy is well out of order too, for having supported an end to apartheid, a peaceful solution to the Irish troubles, and a just resolution to the oppression of the Palestinians. All of which has made the world a much more dangerous place for the average citizen of the UK of course.
See the thing is, people like him wore cool T shirts and told everyone how apartheid should be ended and Mandela released. Except the government of South Africa wasnt listening to people like him.
They were listening to people like this woman who didnt wear a T shirt, but used her influence to get him released.
"I was briefed off-the-record by her foreign affairs adviser on several occasions, but when he told me that she had called on the then president, PW Botha, to release Nelson Mandela, I found it difficult to believe. I did not report it as I could not source it. But it was true. In a letter to Botha in October 1985 she wrote: "I continue to believe, as I have said to you before, that the release of Nelson Mandela would have more impact than almost any single action you could undertake."
When Botha stepped down after a stroke in 1989, he was replaced by FW de Klerk, who met Thatcher at Downing Street in June. I was among a group of journalists waiting outside No 10 with the promise that he would give a press conference straight after. We watched him leave then ran up Whitehall to the South African embassy where he had promised to speak. He did not turn up. We were told later that he had been too shocked by Thatcher's vehemence.
“I can’t tell you how pleased I am that I nominated Jeremy,” Frank Field, the chair of the work and pensions select committee, told me. “The longer it goes on, the thinner the post-Blair gruel that the other candidates offer us appears. It is going to change the debate and, at the end of the day, we’ll owe Jeremy a huge thanks.”
The Campaign Group must be absolutely kicking themselves that they didn't foresee the possibility of Corbyn winning. Because there must be people on the left of Labour party who are genuinely leadership material, do not have decades of historic baggage to be exploited, and have far less on record such that they could make emollient noises to the rest of the Labour Party and the country to keep the party united long enough to get the polls moving in their direction by picking issues to establish clear red water carefully (whilst having the time to transform the party organisation to the left). A Tsipras type character.
Because they could probably have won - Corbyn is not winning primarily because he is Corbyn (although being Corbyn rather than Diane Abbott obviously helps). Instead Corbyn will win, but the party will fall apart within weeks. And they will never get another chance.
Under the legal advice, people known to have voted for other parties according to Labour canvass returns would have been asked to confirm again that they really did support its aims and values. But the party’s procedure committee voted to take no action.
My one doubt about the presumed Corbyn victory is that there is just the possibility that the Internet based polls are obscuring the fact that his success is being driven by social media, and there is likely to be a heavy skew in internet savvy vs non-internet savvy voters, which might call into question whether YouGov are missing a whole swathe of the selectorate. However there are so many of the former registered that it is probably irrelevant.
The Campaign Group must be absolutely kicking themselves that they didn't foresee the possibility of Corbyn winning. Because there must be people on the left of Labour party who are genuinely leadership material, do not have decades of historic baggage to be exploited, and have far less on record such that they could make emollient noises to the rest of the Labour Party and the country to keep the party united long enough to get the polls moving in their direction by picking issues to establish clear red water carefully (whilst having the time to transform the party organisation to the left). A Tsipras type character.
Because they could probably have won - Corbyn is not winning primarily because he is Corbyn (although being Corbyn rather than Diane Abbott obviously helps). Instead Corbyn will win, but the party will fall apart within weeks. And they will never get another chance.
As that New Statesman article says, Clive Lewis is the one to watch as a possible successor to Corbyn before the 2020 election. He's left-wing, but younger, good in the media, and has served in the Army* so would be impossible to paint as a "traitor to Britain".
The Campaign Group must be absolutely kicking themselves that they didn't foresee the possibility of Corbyn winning. Because there must be people on the left of Labour party who are genuinely leadership material, do not have decades of historic baggage to be exploited, and have far less on record such that they could make emollient noises to the rest of the Labour Party and the country to keep the party united long enough to get the polls moving in their direction by picking issues to establish clear red water carefully (whilst having the time to transform the party organisation to the left). A Tsipras type character.
Because they could probably have won - Corbyn is not winning primarily because he is Corbyn (although being Corbyn rather than Diane Abbott obviously helps). Instead Corbyn will win, but the party will fall apart within weeks. And they will never get another chance.
Hasn’t Cooper had the past 18 years or so to ask these inconvenient questions - why now?
She thought the madman was safely locked in the attic. never in her wildest nightmares did she ever think her fellow MPs would actually let him escape. Not only that, she never dreamed that once out he would be made a gift of the matches to burn the house down. The fact that anybody would want to burn the house down whilst she was in it certainly never occurred to her.
You might expect that at even this late date Corbyn would be found out - but as we read here the lunatics are already forming a management committee to run the asylum. I've given up trying to work it out.
The Campaign Group must be absolutely kicking themselves that they didn't foresee the possibility of Corbyn winning. Because there must be people on the left of Labour party who are genuinely leadership material, do not have decades of historic baggage to be exploited, and have far less on record such that they could make emollient noises to the rest of the Labour Party and the country to keep the party united long enough to get the polls moving in their direction by picking issues to establish clear red water carefully (whilst having the time to transform the party organisation to the left). A Tsipras type character.
Because they could probably have won - Corbyn is not winning primarily because he is Corbyn (although being Corbyn rather than Diane Abbott obviously helps). Instead Corbyn will win, but the party will fall apart within weeks. And they will never get another chance.
As that New Statesman article says, Clive Lewis is the one to watch as a possible successor to Corbyn before the 2020 election. He's left-wing, but younger, good in the media, and has served in the Army* so would be impossible to paint as a "traitor to Britain".
I think it's clear by their frothing and false bravado the PB Tories are rattled. They've won their first majority in decades on a historically record low vote, and with absolutely minimal enthusiasm even amongst their voters. And it's only downhill from here. Now they don't even have the safety net of a weak, acquiescent, pointless Labour Party facing them. The spectre of a genuine grassroots movement in control of a mainstream party is looming, which after a few more years of broken promises and declining living standards will be looking more and more attractive. Because they will make such an effort to rig the next election using all the establishment levers at their disposal - reducing the number of MPs whilst stacking the unelected lords, making it harder for the poor and rootless to vote, amongst many other nefarious plans - they'll be very hard to turf out next time. But their majority can certainly be scuppered, rendering them toothless and moribund (no other party will go into coalition with them for many years after seeing how the lib dems were chewed up and spat out) and the rules of the game will be changed for the next political generation.
This is it guys - enjoy the next month, have your fun, enjoy your hubris - it's downhill from here.
That's what you said prior to May, particularly to those PB Tories who were saying the Tories would get 300 plus MP
No - I didn't think labour deserved to win as they were being so gutless, and I thought Miliband was a waste of space, but thought they would squeeze in by default given the (obviously not to be trusted) polls and other factors. I misjudged the sheer malevolent ruthlessness of the Tories (which I begrudgingly admire in a sort of rooting for the villain kind of way) and their ability to stand beside the lib dems (in the UK) and labour (in Scotland) and then turn around and destroy them with their own toxicity before sweeping up control of the ashes. However the Tories have blown their paltry wads on that front and its downhill all the way. My only mistake was in the timing - like something from a horror film, I should have remembered they keep coming back. But they will be screwed for a long time before long in the grand scheme of things.
Wrong on so many levels, but most egregious is the notion that Tories only have paltry wads to blow....
If they want to suck on a used tampax, then that really is up to them. Personally, I can think of better ways to enjoy a blow job.
Are all the votes being counted in one place? 600,000 is a lot to handle at one facility. Even the old European constituencies didn't have that many voters.
Under the legal advice, people known to have voted for other parties according to Labour canvass returns would have been asked to confirm again that they really did support its aims and values. But the party’s procedure committee voted to take no action.
Make a list of the enemies of Britain and the British way of life - chances are Jeremy is a fan.
Err... Hezbollah and Hamas have nothing to do with the UK, in fact both are enemies of ISIS who ARE actually enemies of the UK and who were armed by the Tories in Syria and Libya. If you consider israel and the UK's interests to align, maybe, 70% of the population disagree though.
The Tories armed Islamic extremists in Syria, Libya, Afghanistan and many more, all of whom pose a grave threat to normal UK citizens. Jeremy chatted to some people who represent no threat to the UK at all.
He hasn't just met them. He's described them as his friends, and one as an honoured citizen. You can keep on claiming that he "just" met them, but I'll keep on correcting you.
And I'm sure Hamas and Hezbollah are big fans of liberal democratic values.
Jezbollah is going to be the most anti-Western leader any major party in the UK has even chosen.
Sorry but why should we give a flying proverbial if he's anti-'Western'? Anti-British (which he may well be) is a problem. Anti a meaningless but constantly repeated geographical expression meaning everyone who does what America says, is not. In fact, it's refreshing, and considering the inevitable shifts in world status, perhaps diplomatically useful.
Anti-Western is a problem if it means moving us away from the civilised world and cosying up to Putin.
Mr luckyguy is a conspiracy junky, anti-american racist.
Corbyn could face Labour MPs' coup 'within days of being elected leader'
Moderate Labour MPs have been in discissions how to overthrow hard Left Jeremy Corbyn if he is crowned Labour leader next month, The Telegraph can disclose.
The MPs are understood to have held informal talks about challenging Mr Corbyn when Parliament returns to work next month.
This could see Mr Corbyn fighting for his political life at the party’s annual conference, just days after he has been elected leader.
Simon Danczuk said about a week ago that the campaign to get rid of Corbyn starts on day one, if not before.
The problem with any such move is that it will fatally fracture the relationship between the grass roots and the MPs. If, as looks possible, Corbyn wins an outright majority on the first ballot, the membership (as a whole) will have spoken. The MPs have two choices - one is to abide by the democratic will of the majority of paying members or to leave the party.
Trying to overturn the will of the membership will be fatal for the party.
A mass resignation of MPs to form a new party would, in many ways, be less damaging. It would be a painful period - but not as dangerous as trying to kick out a leader who has just been elected with a significant mandate.
The Campaign Group must be absolutely kicking themselves that they didn't foresee the possibility of Corbyn winning. Because there must be people on the left of Labour party who are genuinely leadership material, do not have decades of historic baggage to be exploited, and have far less on record such that they could make emollient noises to the rest of the Labour Party and the country to keep the party united long enough to get the polls moving in their direction by picking issues to establish clear red water carefully (whilst having the time to transform the party organisation to the left). A Tsipras type character.
Because they could probably have won - Corbyn is not winning primarily because he is Corbyn (although being Corbyn rather than Diane Abbott obviously helps). Instead Corbyn will win, but the party will fall apart within weeks. And they will never get another chance.
As that New Statesman article says, Clive Lewis is the one to watch as a possible successor to Corbyn before the 2020 election. He's left-wing, but younger, good in the media, and has served in the Army* so would be impossible to paint as a "traitor to Britain".
* Correction, he served in the Reserves
I really like Richard Burgon too.
Have you voted yet?
I'm going to keep dithering until the last few days!
"I was briefed off-the-record by her foreign affairs adviser on several occasions, but when he told me that she had called on the then president, PW Botha, to release Nelson Mandela, I found it difficult to believe. I did not report it as I could not source it. But it was true. In a letter to Botha in October 1985 she wrote: "I continue to believe, as I have said to you before, that the release of Nelson Mandela would have more impact than almost any single action you could undertake.
Mandela was released on 11 February 1990"
Yep, ok, Maggie, whose husband was neck deep in apartheid business deals, and who called the ANC terrorists (funny how Jeremy isn't smeared with regards supporting those terrorists nowadays) was actually responsible for the end of apartheid. Only in the brains of the chronically demented loony right.
Kier Starmer v Tristam Hunt will be the next contest.
David Miliband ? You will just need to mention the word "rendition".
Hunt will carry the Blairite torch. Guaranteed defeat, particularly after Chilcot [ ? ]. He will be the Torygraph's favourite candidate.
Starmer will be criticised for some botched prosecution or other. However, successful prosecutions will be used to counteract that.
But, he will be portrayed as someone who held "real" jobs in his working career. Something of a novelty these days.
I think Jarvis will be in the mix. Fresh. Strong backstory. Personable. Starmer has baggage that will hamper him. And Hunt - well he is just a spoonerism waiting to happen.
I spend the weekend with someone who worked very closely with Starmer while he was at the CPS - she ran one of his stakeholders. She was not complimentary (despite being a swing voter). There are a lot of skeletons if you know where to look.
What kind of vile anti-British scum would sell off most of our publically owned assets to foreign oligarchs and states, suborn our foreign policy to overseas powers, arm Islamic extremists who wish us ill, and take their orders from propagandists from the other side of the globe? Oh, and Jeremy is well out of order too, for having supported an end to apartheid, a peaceful solution to the Irish troubles, and a just resolution to the oppression of the Palestinians. All of which has made the world a much more dangerous place for the average citizen of the UK of course.
See the thing is, people like him wore cool T shirts and told everyone how apartheid should be ended and Mandela released. Except the government of South Africa wasnt listening to people like him.
They were listening to people like this woman who didnt wear a T shirt, but used her influence to get him released.
"I was briefed off-the-record by her foreign affairs adviser on several occasions, but when he told me that she had called on the then president, PW Botha, to release Nelson Mandela, I found it difficult to believe. I did not report it as I could not source it. But it was true. In a letter to Botha in October 1985 she wrote: "I continue to believe, as I have said to you before, that the release of Nelson Mandela would have more impact than almost any single action you could undertake."
When Botha stepped down after a stroke in 1989, he was replaced by FW de Klerk, who met Thatcher at Downing Street in June. I was among a group of journalists waiting outside No 10 with the promise that he would give a press conference straight after. We watched him leave then ran up Whitehall to the South African embassy where he had promised to speak. He did not turn up. We were told later that he had been too shocked by Thatcher's vehemence.
I spend the weekend with someone who worked very closely with Starmer while he was at the CPS - she ran one of his stakeholders. She was not complimentary (despite being a swing voter). There are a lot of skeletons if you know where to look.
Tell me of someone who does not have a skeleton or two in the cupboard. But something like rendition ? No.
Off-topic - of all Buzzfeed survey type content, this one said to me "share with PB". After the earlier thread a question on 'corporal punishment' might have improved it though.
Is there anything they have not linked to Corbyn's support for the Palestinian cause (or going back decades to the Irish question in which hindsight proved his approach correct)? The Tories have funded countless groups that have actually killed UK troops.
His approach to Ireland was not correct.
It caused no end of trouble for the government (two members of my family were very heavily involved behind the scenes).
Of course governments talk to terrorists. And of course they deny doing any such thing (or, as I think the phrase is, they say that it would "turn their stomach" - not a denial, of course).
But random backbenchers? Consorting with terrorists? Not something they should be doing.
I still think Labour need a Corbyn win. They're fecked at the minute- if you think the likes of Burnham and Cooper are the answer, then gawd knows what question you're asking and the whole drawn out leadership contest has been an embarrassment. Labour need something radical to shake them up, to make them realise just how out of touch they've become. Sure, he's unelectable, but Corbyn is that something to bring it all crashing down. It's gonna be a wild ride for the next few years, but Labour need to get on the horse!
Just had drinks with two staunch but very thoughtful lefty friends (one of whom is almost UKIP on certain policies). Both of them definitely wanted Corbyn to win - their logic is that Labour needs a shake up, Corbyn is authentic, everyone hates Blair and the Blairites, the others are losers, he can energise the young, look at the grassroots surge.
I agreed, but pointed out that Corbyn simply cannot win a GE in England.
They in turn agreed with this (with caveats - *you never know* etc), but they thought Corbyn would ratchet the political discussion Left (even if he is unelectable) and that he would revive a dying party.
It was persuasive. I now reckon Corbyn is going to win this.
I have had similar conversations. One of my lefty friends won't vote for Corbyn but is hoping that it will lead to a split - and thus the creation of a new party of the centre left.
He doesn't know whether he would be more at home in a Pure Labour or Realistic Labour party - but he wants that choice.
Maybe SouthamObserver could have a private chat with you sometime. The Tories aren't rattled, they're cock-a-hoop. Don't forget that even Blair wasn't able to win the popular vote in England in 2005.
I think it's clear by their frothing and false bravado the PB Tories are rattled. They've won their first majority in decades on a historically record low vote, and with absolutely minimal enthusiasm even amongst their voters. And it's only downhill from here. Now they don't even have the safety net of a weak, acquiescent, pointless Labour Party facing them. The spectre of a genuine grassroots movement in control of a mainstream party is looming, which after a few more years of broken promises and declining living standards will be looking more and more attractive. Because they will make such an effort to rig the next election using all the establishment levers at their disposal - reducing the number of MPs whilst stacking the unelected lords, making it harder for the poor and rootless to vote, amongst many other nefarious plans - they'll be very hard to turf out next time. But their majority can certainly be scuppered, rendering them toothless and moribund (no other party will go into coalition with them for many years after seeing how the lib dems were chewed up and spat out) and the rules of the game will be changed for the next political generation.
This is it guys - enjoy the next month, have your fun, enjoy your hubris - it's downhill from here.
2005?
Well if even Blair at the height of his post-Iraq war popularity and credibility couldn't manage it, who am I to talk?
Off-topic - of all Buzzfeed survey type content, this one said to me "share with PB". After the earlier thread a question on 'corporal punishment' might have improved it though.
I still think Labour need a Corbyn win. They're fecked at the minute- if you think the likes of Burnham and Cooper are the answer, then gawd knows what question you're asking and the whole drawn out leadership contest has been an embarrassment. Labour need something radical to shake them up, to make them realise just how out of touch they've become. Sure, he's unelectable, but Corbyn is that something to bring it all crashing down. It's gonna be a wild ride for the next few years, but Labour need to get on the horse!
Just had drinks with two staunch but very thoughtful lefty friends (one of whom is almost UKIP on certain policies). Both of them definitely wanted Corbyn to win - their logic is that Labour needs a shake up, Corbyn is authentic, everyone hates Blair and the Blairites, the others are losers, he can energise the young, look at the grassroots surge.
I agreed, but pointed out that Corbyn simply cannot win a GE in England.
They in turn agreed with this (with caveats - *you never know* etc), but they thought Corbyn would ratchet the political discussion Left (even if he is unelectable) and that he would revive a dying party.
It was persuasive. I now reckon Corbyn is going to win this.
You know as well as I, SeanT, that Corbyn is at heart a crypto fascist and will do what all potential fuhrers do: debase their own party and it's supporters. He may not in the past sought power, but once he has it he won't let it go.
"I was briefed off-the-record by her foreign affairs adviser on several occasions, but when he told me that she had called on the then president, PW Botha, to release Nelson Mandela, I found it difficult to believe. I did not report it as I could not source it. But it was true. In a letter to Botha in October 1985 she wrote: "I continue to believe, as I have said to you before, that the release of Nelson Mandela would have more impact than almost any single action you could undertake.
Mandela was released on 11 February 1990"
Yep, ok, Maggie, whose husband was neck deep in apartheid business deals, and who called the ANC terrorists (funny how Jeremy isn't smeared with regards supporting those terrorists nowadays) was actually responsible for the end of apartheid. Only in the brains of the chronically demented loony right.
The man who ended Apartheid in South Africa, released Mandela and instituted free and fair elections said this: “[Thatcher] exerted more influence on what happened in South Africa than any other political leader”.
And the ANC were terrorists, the matter of debate is whether their actions justified.
Off-topic - of all Buzzfeed survey type content, this one said to me "share with PB". After the earlier thread a question on 'corporal punishment' might have improved it though.
Whilst i would like to think that a Corbyn victory would encourage the Tories to sit firmly in the centre and ignore their right wing, i think this is wishful thinking on my part. The contrary outcome is that a Corbyn victory will allow the Tories to put forward all manner of crazy right wing policies, because the fact that the opposition comes from a "far left" Labour Party will make it easier for criticism to be dismissed as "ideological" socialist claptrap.
Actually i think the suggestion that the Tories are going to respond to a Corbyn victory by bringing forward trade union legislation and other things strongly opposed to the left will be a mistake, because it will encourage the Labour Party to unite. In the short term it is far better for them that Labour fall about fighting each other, than unite on an electorally unpopular (they assume) platform.
Whilst i would like to think that a Corbyn victory would encourage the Tories to sit firmly in the centre and ignore their right wing, i think this is wishful thinking on my part. The contrary outcome is that a Corbyn victory will allow the Tories to put forward all manner of crazy right wing policies, because the fact that the opposition comes from a "far left" Labour Party will make it easier for criticism to be dismissed as "ideological" socialist claptrap.
Actually i think the suggestion that the Tories are going to respond to a Corbyn victory by bringing forward trade union legislation and other things strongly opposed to the left will be a mistake, because it will encourage the Labour Party to unite. In the short term it is far better for them that Labour fall about fighting each other, than unite on an electorally unpopular (they assume) platform.
Yes the best approach for the Tories is to quietly govern from the centre for four years and save all the juicy details for the election campaign.
This is the best August ever for politics fans. Great entertainment value.
A Tory majority, the Lib Dems obliterated, a wholesale SNP takeover of Scotland, UKIP becoming a laughing stock, and Labour self-destructing and on the verge of electing a Trot as leader.
Off-topic - of all Buzzfeed survey type content, this one said to me "share with PB". After the earlier thread a question on 'corporal punishment' might have improved it though.
Comments
http://show.nojam.com/a2sV/feature1.php?c=0&b=2
Although, are there many left to vote?
Tony Marlow.
Have a sub 50% bet on Jezza I need to try and win. Liz is going out 1st round anyway so it's effectively a vote for Jez
http://youtu.be/hw3CE04LGiA
Plus she backed Ken Clarke in 97 and 01
Is education wasted if you take a job that doesn't need it? Only if you consider that all investments need to be repaid in cold cash rather than personal development.
Politics and History
I think for many, going to uni is better than being unemployed for 3 years. Also, it feels like having a degree is mandatory to even compete in the job market. LOL.
Reddit's website layout is terrible. God I hate that site.
As for tumblr, the whole point of it is setting up your own blog, and then posting things (whether it be written posts, gifs, pictures etc) or reblogging the stuff your followers post (or reblog) which you can see on your dash. So anyone on tumblr who doesn't know what a blog is....well I'm worried for them. There are some ex-ploys that are decent e.g. Keele and Brunel. All the others tend be 'meh' though.
And I've never met anyone who has done those degrees.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/bbc/11813249/Lord-Hall-threatened-to-overshadow-Budget-after-TV-licence-row.html
It will all come to nothing imho.
PB Tories laughed at Ed winning, and that laughter was dismissed by Labour supporters, but it was sincere, and we all know they were right, Labour picked a loser.
Now Jeremy Corbyn is the sort of Labour candidate PB Tories dream of, he makes Ed Miliband look palatable, if anything PB Tories simply can not believe that Labour are about to do what Labour are about to do. Rest assured PB Tories really do think he will be a total f*cking disaster for Labour Party. Only time will tell if they are correct, but do not doubt their sincerity, they mean what they say.
Anyone really intending to do some damage - e g if my cat Mr Felix Domesticus had a vote - would be far more effective as ridicule after the result is announced.
Who knows, maybe Corbyn could be elected PM by the general public - purely with the intent of getting rid of him, you understand?
Interesting that the threat was to reduce the availability of what the license fee payer is handing their hard earned cash over for, rather than slashing management numbers. It says a lot about the mind-set over at Broadcasting House.
Not going to happen, unless you are living in PB Tory fantasist world.
Oh right…
http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/572073/#Comment_572073
@itvnews: Cooper tells @itvnews: Corbyn has questions to answer over link with banned activist http://www.itv.com/news/2015-08-19/corbyn-must-answer-questions-on-alleged-links-to-extremist-figures-says-yvette-cooper/ …
Either way the trouble will start . They really are utterly totally fecked.
PB labourites, always wrong, never learn
@GdnPolitics: Leaked notes reveal Labour ignored legal advice over new membership http://t.co/ltYdATtP2n
Oh...
"On the morning of 12 September at the QEII Centre in Westminster, Jeremy Corbyn will be declared the new leader of the Labour Party. This is the outcome that almost all MPs now expect. A result that scriptwriters would have rejected as too outlandish before the contest began is regarded as near inevitable. Given the number of ballots returned in the first week of voting, the game may already be over."
"Corbyn as PM, it could happen, here's how"
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33986738
That is what has happened isn't it?
Sod all happened as they're a bunch of spineless goons.
Tbf it gave PB plenty of opportunities for threads, but nothing amounted to much.
Oh, and Jeremy is well out of order too, for having supported an end to apartheid, a peaceful solution to the Irish troubles, and a just resolution to the oppression of the Palestinians. All of which has made the world a much more dangerous place for the average citizen of the UK of course.
They were listening to people like this woman who didnt wear a T shirt, but used her influence to get him released.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/10/margaret-thatcher-apartheid-mandela
"I was briefed off-the-record by her foreign affairs adviser on several occasions, but when he told me that she had called on the then president, PW Botha, to release Nelson Mandela, I found it difficult to believe. I did not report it as I could not source it. But it was true. In a letter to Botha in October 1985 she wrote: "I continue to believe, as I have said to you before, that the release of Nelson Mandela would have more impact than almost any single action you could undertake."
When Botha stepped down after a stroke in 1989, he was replaced by FW de Klerk, who met Thatcher at Downing Street in June. I was among a group of journalists waiting outside No 10 with the promise that he would give a press conference straight after. We watched him leave then ran up Whitehall to the South African embassy where he had promised to speak. He did not turn up. We were told later that he had been too shocked by Thatcher's vehemence.
Mandela was released on 11 February 1990"
Good article
Because they could probably have won - Corbyn is not winning primarily because he is Corbyn (although being Corbyn rather than Diane Abbott obviously helps). Instead Corbyn will win, but the party will fall apart within weeks. And they will never get another chance.
* Correction, he served in the Reserves
Tic Tockism? Surely not, so soon after the election.
You might expect that at even this late date Corbyn would be found out - but as we read here the lunatics are already forming a management committee to run the asylum. I've given up trying to work it out.
Have you voted yet?
Kier Starmer v Tristam Hunt will be the next contest.
David Miliband ? You will just need to mention the word "rendition".
Hunt will carry the Blairite torch. Guaranteed defeat, particularly after Chilcot [ ? ]. He will be the Torygraph's favourite candidate.
Starmer will be criticised for some botched prosecution or other. However, successful prosecutions will be used to counteract that.
But, he will be portrayed as someone who held "real" jobs in his working career. Something of a novelty these days.
Trying to overturn the will of the membership will be fatal for the party.
A mass resignation of MPs to form a new party would, in many ways, be less damaging. It would be a painful period - but not as dangerous as trying to kick out a leader who has just been elected with a significant mandate.
Yep, ok, Maggie, whose husband was neck deep in apartheid business deals, and who called the ANC terrorists (funny how Jeremy isn't smeared with regards supporting those terrorists nowadays) was actually responsible for the end of apartheid. Only in the brains of the chronically demented loony right.
I spend the weekend with someone who worked very closely with Starmer while he was at the CPS - she ran one of his stakeholders. She was not complimentary (despite being a swing voter). There are a lot of skeletons if you know where to look.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/sophiegadd/how-posh-was-your-school?utm_term=.wa6v8zOJA#.wsg9l9ddD
You ticked off 9 out of 51 on this list!
Your school was fundamentally not posh. Sorry.
It caused no end of trouble for the government (two members of my family were very heavily involved behind the scenes).
Of course governments talk to terrorists. And of course they deny doing any such thing (or, as I think the phrase is, they say that it would "turn their stomach" - not a denial, of course).
But random backbenchers? Consorting with terrorists? Not something they should be doing.
He doesn't know whether he would be more at home in a Pure Labour or Realistic Labour party - but he wants that choice.
“[Thatcher] exerted more influence on what happened in South Africa than any other political leader”.
And the ANC were terrorists, the matter of debate is whether their actions justified.
Fairly posh.
Actually i think the suggestion that the Tories are going to respond to a Corbyn victory by bringing forward trade union legislation and other things strongly opposed to the left will be a mistake, because it will encourage the Labour Party to unite. In the short term it is far better for them that Labour fall about fighting each other, than unite on an electorally unpopular (they assume) platform.
Unfortunately I couldn't score points for former PMs being alumni (the great Harold Wilson was the first ever Head Boy at my school).