Twitter Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 50m50 minutes ago Just spoken to Jeremy Corbyn. He's confirmed he intends to have other Labour MPs take his role at some sessions of PMQs
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 43m43 minutes ago Corbyn on PMQs: "David Cameron enjoys a bit of repartee but it's going to be one-way"
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 41m41 minutes ago Corbyn on PMQs "We should share it out a bit. I've been in touch with the speaker's office to ask about this."
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 28m28 minutes ago Corbyn quotes a friend: "the best leaders those that assume the position with reluctance because they do it best."
So Corbyn is going to pass on the only regularly scheduled opportunity he has to hold the government to account; the one weekly chance to ask the PM anything and he doesn't want to do it?
How can he seriously call himself the Leader of the Opposition if he can't be bothered to oppose the government?
He's more comfortable opposing the government in votes and in rallies, fits with his style of irregular warfare, also that means that Cameron will have to prepare to deal with dozens of different shadow ministers, each with a distinctive style and quality.
That reads as "He is more comfortable talking only to those who share his beliefs, and he doesn't dare want to be told he's wrong or that his policies might have negative consequences. The PM should not have to deal with someone so important on Wednesdays, that's why he'll delegate the job to someone more junior." What utter bollocks, and contempt for those who elected him, as well as for the PM himself and the House of Commons (not that he cares much about that of course). I imagine the Squeaker might not be too pleased either.
I flipped back after flopping for Jeremy last night Nick. Corbyn exudes a refreshingly, folky charm, which you cannot learn and is rather quite appealing. He is actually much more charming and likeable than Michael Foot who he is often compared to.
Many of the pbCOM diehards have only judged Corbyn on his headlines and past affiliations. You of course know him very well which obviously influenced your support.
I'm sure, the more we all get to see of him, the more we'll all get to like him whatever our persuasions.
Well I am really quite pleased with the leadership vote. I turned to Jeremy last night.
And you all should be here- and not for the obvious political reasons. Corbyn is the antithesis of the career spad politician. He has a refreshing simplicity. Just think no more stunts. No more hugging hoodies, or trips to Greenland. No EdStones or trips to Russell Brand. No more opportunistic political cross dressing. No more Osborne or Brownlike scheming. I'm sure that most of you here hate all that spin bullshit as much as I do.
Hopefully Jeremy with his honesty and his authenticity will change politics in the UK for the better and that can only be a very good thing.
Exactly! Was really sorry to be in disagreement with you recently.
Now, Southam, let's have a chat... :-)
I think as far as political figures go Corbyn's "normalness" is what I'd anticipate will shine through in the next few months. Fallon's first shot across Corbyn's bow is much as expected - I wonder how many red turkeys who were swayed by the SNP line will fall for this as well?
"Labour are now a serious risk to our nation's security, our economy's security and your family's security. Whether it's weakening our defences, raising taxes on jobs and earnings, racking up more debt and welfare or driving up the cost of living by printing money – Jeremy Corbyn's Labour party will hurt working people. This is a very serious moment for our country – the Conservatives will continue to deliver stability, security and opportunity for working people."
Twitter Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 50m50 minutes ago Just spoken to Jeremy Corbyn. He's confirmed he intends to have other Labour MPs take his role at some sessions of PMQs
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 43m43 minutes ago Corbyn on PMQs: "David Cameron enjoys a bit of repartee but it's going to be one-way"
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 41m41 minutes ago Corbyn on PMQs "We should share it out a bit. I've been in touch with the speaker's office to ask about this."
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 28m28 minutes ago Corbyn quotes a friend: "the best leaders those that assume the position with reluctance because they do it best."
So Corbyn is going to pass on the only regularly scheduled opportunity he has to hold the government to account; the one weekly chance to ask the PM anything and he doesn't want to do it?
How can he seriously call himself the Leader of the Opposition if he can't be bothered to oppose the government?
He's more comfortable opposing the government in votes and in rallies, fits with his style of irregular warfare, also that means that Cameron will have to prepare to deal with dozens of different shadow ministers, each with a distinctive style and quality.
That reads as "He is more comfortable talking only to those who share his beliefs, and he doesn't dare want to be told he's wrong or that his policies might have negative consequences. The PM should not have to deal with someone so important on Wednesdays, that's why he'll delegate the job to someone more junior." What utter bollocks, and contempt for those who elected him, as well as for the PM himself and the House of Commons (not that he cares much about that of course). I imagine the Squeaker might not be too pleased either.
"FWIW Tim Farron is at the #refugeeswelcome rally today."
Thanks for that. I didn't consider the Lib Dems because as Jonathan noted earlier they still show no signs of having a pulse so are presumed dead.
(But you're the doc so will be advised)
I think that we may see a Lazarus like revival of the LDs. If Farron cannot exploit this then we will have Blue hegemony.
If the remaining LDs (and UKIP) can't take advantage of their opponents electing a complete nutcase as leader, then they have no future in politics.
Farron is on the left too, the big winner other than Cameron is Farage. With EU ref looming he can attack the traditional Labour white working class vote. Indeed if anything will topple Corbyn it could be Labour coming behind UKIP in a by election. Much as the LDs prospered under IDS so UKIP will prosper under Corbyn
I think that we may see a Lazarus like revival of the LDs. If Farron cannot exploit this then we will have Blue hegemony.
If anything this makes the LDs task much harder. Progress for the LDs demands the Oxygen of publicity and they are going to get sweet FA now.
And in the light of Corbyn, Farron is looking like the wrong choice.
Not sure, Corbyn shows the importance of energising your base... and Farron was a good choice to do that.
In terms of getting votes as The Sensible Party, I can see the advantage of Lamb. But relatively speaking, is Farron so barmy?
His only real standout eccenticity is being a born again Christian, something that we seldom see in the UK. I think that he will sweep up ex Labour voters in rural areas particularly in the North and SW and also in the suburbs.
Twitter Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 50m50 minutes ago Just spoken to Jeremy Corbyn. He's confirmed he intends to have other Labour MPs take his role at some sessions of PMQs
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 43m43 minutes ago Corbyn on PMQs: "David Cameron enjoys a bit of repartee but it's going to be one-way"
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 41m41 minutes ago Corbyn on PMQs "We should share it out a bit. I've been in touch with the speaker's office to ask about this."
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 28m28 minutes ago Corbyn quotes a friend: "the best leaders those that assume the position with reluctance because they do it best."
So Corbyn is going to pass on the only regularly scheduled opportunity he has to hold the government to account; the one weekly chance to ask the PM anything and he doesn't want to do it?
How can he seriously call himself the Leader of the Opposition if he can't be bothered to oppose the government?
He's more comfortable opposing the government in votes and in rallies, fits with his style of irregular warfare, also that means that Cameron will have to prepare to deal with dozens of different shadow ministers, each with a distinctive style and quality.
That reads as "He is more comfortable talking only to those who share his beliefs, and he doesn't dare want to be told he's wrong or that his policies might have negative consequences. The PM should not have to deal with someone so important on Wednesdays, that's why he'll delegate the job to someone more junior." What utter bollocks, and contempt for those who elected him, as well as for the PM himself and the House of Commons (not that he cares much about that of course). I imagine the Squeaker might not be too pleased either.
"Oh Corbyn doesn't want to play with Cameron, boohoo."
Calum S @CalumSPlath 12m12 minutes ago all of these people "resigning" from the Shadow Cabinet remind me of someone breaking up with their partner just as they're getting dumped
Well I am really quite pleased with the leadership vote. I turned to Jeremy last night.
And you all should be here- and not for the obvious political reasons. Corbyn is the antithesis of the career spad politician. He has a refreshing simplicity. Just think no more stunts. No more hugging hoodies, or trips to Greenland. No EdStones or trips to Russell Brand. No more opportunistic political cross dressing. No more Osborne or Brownlike scheming. I'm sure that most of you here hate all that spin bullshit as much as I do.
Hopefully Jeremy with his honesty and his authenticity will change politics in the UK for the better and that can only be a very good thing.
Exactly! Was really sorry to be in disagreement with you recently.
Now, Southam, let's have a chat... :-)
Do you fancy a seat in HOL now you are clearly unelectable on whatever basis it is possible to be unelectable? You obviously have private means and the daily allowance will come in handy.
Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB 3h3 hours ago Next LAB leader betting from Hills 3/1 Umunna 7/2Jarvis 5/1 Watson 7/1 D Miliband 8/1 Hunt; 12/1 Cooper & Reeves
Umunna auditioning for the role of Liz Kendall. It won't be any who got humiliated in this leadership election, so that's Umunna, Hunt, Cooper, Reeves, Burnham and the shadow cabinet resigners out.
The next Labour leader will need to accept the anti-austerity positioning that the party electorate expect. None of those names look like value.
Alan Johnson or Margaret Beckett more likely they would play the Michael Howard role
Well that is the excitement for the day over...NO..not the Labour lunacy..buying some more Jasmine plants for the garden..Are any of the original Shadow Cabinet left.
"FWIW Tim Farron is at the #refugeeswelcome rally today."
Thanks for that. I didn't consider the Lib Dems because as Jonathan noted earlier they still show no signs of having a pulse so are presumed dead.
(But you're the doc so will be advised)
I think that we may see a Lazarus like revival of the LDs. If Farron cannot exploit this then we will have Blue hegemony.
If the remaining LDs (and UKIP) can't take advantage of their opponents electing a complete nutcase as leader, then they have no future in politics.
Farron is on the left too, the big winner other than Cameron is Farage. With EU ref looming he can attack the traditional Labour white working class vote. Indeed if anything will topple Corbyn it could be Labour coming behind UKIP in a by election. Much as the LDs prospered under IDS so UKIP will prosper under Corbyn
Labour had come third or fourth behind UKIP in many byelections last time.
"FWIW Tim Farron is at the #refugeeswelcome rally today."
Thanks for that. I didn't consider the Lib Dems because as Jonathan noted earlier they still show no signs of having a pulse so are presumed dead.
(But you're the doc so will be advised)
I think that we may see a Lazarus like revival of the LDs. If Farron cannot exploit this then we will have Blue hegemony.
If the remaining LDs (and UKIP) can't take advantage of their opponents electing a complete nutcase as leader, then they have no future in politics.
Farron is on the left too, the big winner other than Cameron is Farage. With EU ref looming he can attack the traditional Labour white working class vote. Indeed if anything will topple Corbyn it could be Labour coming behind UKIP in a by election. Much as the LDs prospered under IDS so UKIP will prosper under Corbyn
Farron is nowhere near the far Left position of Corbyn, and much more robust on terrorism etc. If Corbyn comes out for BOO then he may well pick up a lot of pro-european Labour centrists.
The only real winner today is Cameron. He has the luck of the devil.
Fallon's comments confirm that the Conservative tactics will be to attack the man's policies not the man.
Very wise.
Pity that Fallon has very little to boast about. RN reduced to little more than coastal defense with 19 frigates. RAF: zero ground attack (sells off recently upgraded at £4 billion, Harrier fleet to USM to use for spare parts), zero air recon capability (relies on Scots fishermen to advise RAF officer in a pub that there are 3 Russian warships up the coast sheltering in a bay) puts wrecking ball through newly built planes, (remind me, which PM was stupid enough to put a MD in charge of Defense where the object is too kill more of their people before being killed ourselves). 2 Aircraft carriers that when completed, will not have any planes to fly off for upto 10 years. Aircraft carriers require a support fleet of destroyers, frigates, oilers etc, which with the best will in the world, we ain't got or even the crews to man them. As for the Grunts, army and marines......... Ah well, we will be able to depend on the reserves? Er! nope. Why should sensible people volunteer to be away from their families, friends, work and seniority at work for 2 year periods? Result, severe reserve manpower shortage, except in the advertising campaign agency teams.
Trident systems, bought off the shelf from the US who still hold the firing keys. We pay, we run, they set off the fireworks. But hey ho, it supports the myth that the UK is still a nuclear power.
If, we decide to have no capability to enforce our (British) will in other parts of the world, so be it, we are nearly there already. If the PM decides that he wants to play with the big boys in Syria and/or elsewhere, then he will have to expand the military to back to over 200,000 from it's present 80k.
Whatever he thinks, the PM should be told that bombing targets with expensive rockets from drones is only part of the answer.
Boots need to be on the ground to take and hold, take and hold. Aircover with A10's or equivalents (Apaches very sexy, very expensive to maintain in combat situations best suited to hunting), proper fighters (not designed by committees to be all things to no one in particular) to be air attack and defense. A large navy with some very big ships with lots of guns makes any threat more pointedly enforceable. All very expensive, but in these times of austerity, we must all tighten our belts, etc. et bloody cetera.
Listening to Corbyn addressing the migrants rally must be like music to Nigel Farage, UKIP and even the conservatives as 'ordinary' people, as Corbyn likes to call them, will enrol in droves
Twitter Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 50m50 minutes ago Just spoken to Jeremy Corbyn. He's confirmed he intends to have other Labour MPs take his role at some sessions of PMQs
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 43m43 minutes ago Corbyn on PMQs: "David Cameron enjoys a bit of repartee but it's going to be one-way"
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 41m41 minutes ago Corbyn on PMQs "We should share it out a bit. I've been in touch with the speaker's office to ask about this."
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 28m28 minutes ago Corbyn quotes a friend: "the best leaders those that assume the position with reluctance because they do it best."
So Corbyn is going to pass on the only regularly scheduled opportunity he has to hold the government to account; the one weekly chance to ask the PM anything and he doesn't want to do it?
How can he seriously call himself the Leader of the Opposition if he can't be bothered to oppose the government?
He's more comfortable opposing the government in votes and in rallies, fits with his style of irregular warfare, also that means that Cameron will have to prepare to deal with dozens of different shadow ministers, each with a distinctive style and quality.
That reads as "He is more comfortable talking only to those who share his beliefs, and he doesn't dare want to be told he's wrong or that his policies might have negative consequences. The PM should not have to deal with someone so important on Wednesdays, that's why he'll delegate the job to someone more junior." What utter bollocks, and contempt for those who elected him, as well as for the PM himself and the House of Commons (not that he cares much about that of course). I imagine the Squeaker might not be too pleased either.
"Oh Corbyn doesn't want to play with Cameron, boohoo."
Corbyn doesn't want to play with anyone except himself and his fanatical supporters. Parliament is the mechanism by which the Government of the Day is held to account. If he didn't want to do that, they why did he run to be Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition?
"FWIW Tim Farron is at the #refugeeswelcome rally today."
Thanks for that. I didn't consider the Lib Dems because as Jonathan noted earlier they still show no signs of having a pulse so are presumed dead.
(But you're the doc so will be advised)
I think that we may see a Lazarus like revival of the LDs. If Farron cannot exploit this then we will have Blue hegemony.
If the remaining LDs (and UKIP) can't take advantage of their opponents electing a complete nutcase as leader, then they have no future in politics.
Farron is on the left too, the big winner other than Cameron is Farage. With EU ref looming he can attack the traditional Labour white working class vote. Indeed if anything will topple Corbyn it could be Labour coming behind UKIP in a by election. Much as the LDs prospered under IDS so UKIP will prosper under Corbyn
Labour had come third or fourth behind UKIP in many byelections last time.
Not on any seats that have or had a Labour MP that would be the difference
Twitter Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 50m50 minutes ago Just spoken to Jeremy Corbyn. He's confirmed he intends to have other Labour MPs take his role at some sessions of PMQs
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 43m43 minutes ago Corbyn on PMQs: "David Cameron enjoys a bit of repartee but it's going to be one-way"
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 41m41 minutes ago Corbyn on PMQs "We should share it out a bit. I've been in touch with the speaker's office to ask about this."
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 28m28 minutes ago Corbyn quotes a friend: "the best leaders those that assume the position with reluctance because they do it best."
So Corbyn is going to pass on the only regularly scheduled opportunity he has to hold the government to account; the one weekly chance to ask the PM anything and he doesn't want to do it?
How can he seriously call himself the Leader of the Opposition if he can't be bothered to oppose the government?
He's more comfortable opposing the government in votes and in rallies, fits with his style of irregular warfare, also that means that Cameron will have to prepare to deal with dozens of different shadow ministers, each with a distinctive style and quality.
That reads as "He is more comfortable talking only to those who share his beliefs, and he doesn't dare want to be told he's wrong or that his policies might have negative consequences. The PM should not have to deal with someone so important on Wednesdays, that's why he'll delegate the job to someone more junior." What utter bollocks, and contempt for those who elected him, as well as for the PM himself and the House of Commons (not that he cares much about that of course). I imagine the Squeaker might not be too pleased either.
"Oh Corbyn doesn't want to play with Cameron, boohoo."
Corbyn doesn't want to play with anyone except himself and his fanatical supporters. Parliament is the mechanism by which the Government of the Day is held to account. If he didn't want to do that, they why did he run to be Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition?
Do you really think the only thing the leader of the Labour party should be doing is a short question and answer session once a week?
Corbyn is not just going to change the voter appeal of Labour negatively, he will also change the nature of the party negatively. What happens to all of the party employees and the smart ambitious young people who want to one day be SpAds and MPs? What does Labour offer them except 10 years on the sidelines of politics watching as their leader sabotages any attempt at getting anywhere near the levers of power.
To be fair, there is something in what you say. The problem, however, is his history.
I'm close enough to the history to understand it while disagreeing with some of the decisions. JC has always been profoundly sceptical about Western foreign policy, which he thinks has been consistently counter-productive and arrogant. He thinks that we don't understand half the people we fight and it's been part of his role to give them a platform. It hasn't involved supporting them, and amid all the quotes from the last 40 years of his political life - a long time to open up hostages to fortune - I've not seen one that endorsed Hamas, the IRA or anyone else that most of us would have seen as the enemy.
Are the meetings embarrassing now he's got an entirely different role? Probably. Are they especially relevant to whether he'll make a good leader? No. Judge him by what he does now.
I think we've heard enough from you to judge what your judgment is like.
SPEEDY..That should read.. The leader of her Majesty,s Opposition refuses to debate issues that affect the country with the Prime Minister in the HOC...that should bring in a few more Labour votes....NOT...Labour party voters are not as stupid as some of the current leaders seem to think they are......
Twitter Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 50m50 minutes ago Just spoken to Jeremy Corbyn. He's confirmed he intends to have other Labour MPs take his role at some sessions of PMQs
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 43m43 minutes ago Corbyn on PMQs: "David Cameron enjoys a bit of repartee but it's going to be one-way"
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 41m41 minutes ago Corbyn on PMQs "We should share it out a bit. I've been in touch with the speaker's office to ask about this."
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 28m28 minutes ago Corbyn quotes a friend: "the best leaders those that assume the position with reluctance because they do it best."
So Corbyn is going to pass on the only regularly scheduled opportunity he has to hold the government to account; the one weekly chance to ask the PM anything and he doesn't want to do it?
How can he seriously call himself the Leader of the Opposition if he can't be bothered to oppose the government?
He's more comfortable opposing the government in votes and in rallies, fits with his style of irregular warfare, also that means that Cameron will have to prepare to deal with dozens of different shadow ministers, each with a distinctive style and quality.
That reads as "He is more comfortable talking only to those who share his beliefs, and he doesn't dare want to be told he's wrong or that his policies might have negative consequences. The PM should not have to deal with someone so important on Wednesdays, that's why he'll delegate the job to someone more junior." What utter bollocks, and contempt for those who elected him, as well as for the PM himself and the House of Commons (not that he cares much about that of course). I imagine the Squeaker might not be too pleased either.
"Oh Corbyn doesn't want to play with Cameron, boohoo."
Corbyn doesn't want to play with anyone except himself and his fanatical supporters. Parliament is the mechanism by which the Government of the Day is held to account. If he didn't want to do that, they why did he run to be Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition?
Do you really think the only thing the leader of the Labour party should be doing is a short question and answer session once a week?
Only? No.
Should his job be one of the things he should be doing? Yes.
Corbyn is not just going to change the voter appeal of Labour negatively, he will also change the nature of the party negatively. What happens to all of the party employees and the smart ambitious young people who want to one day be SpAds and MPs? What does Labour offer them except 10 years on the sidelines of politics watching as their leader sabotages any attempt at getting anywhere near the levers of power.
Less scandals I suppose. So corrupt spads who are in it for the money in the public coffers will have to work for a living.
I flipped back after flopping for Jeremy last night Nick. Corbyn exudes a refreshingly, folky charm, which you cannot learn and is rather quite appealing. He is actually much more charming and likeable than Michael Foot who he is often compared to.
Many of the pbCOM diehards have only judged Corbyn on his headlines and past affiliations. You of course know him very well which obviously influenced your support.
I'm sure, the more we all get to see of him, the more we'll all get to like him whatever our persuasions.
Well I am really quite pleased with the leadership vote. I turned to Jeremy last night.
And you all should be here- and not for the obvious political reasons. Corbyn is the antithesis of the career spad politician. He has a refreshing simplicity. Just think no more stunts. No more hugging hoodies, or trips to Greenland. No EdStones or trips to Russell Brand. No more opportunistic political cross dressing. No more Osborne or Brownlike scheming. I'm sure that most of you here hate all that spin bullshit as much as I do.
Hopefully Jeremy with his honesty and his authenticity will change politics in the UK for the better and that can only be a very good thing.
Exactly! Was really sorry to be in disagreement with you recently.
Now, Southam, let's have a chat... :-)
It used to cost you a bob to prod the lunatics in the asylum. It's now free.
SPEEDY..That should read.. The leader of her Majesty,s Opposition refuses to debate issues that affect the country with the Prime Minister in the HOC...that should bring in a few more Labour votes....NOT...Labour party voters are not as stupid as some of the current leaders seem to think they are......
That should read "David Cameron is moaning like a small child because Jeremy Corbyn doesn't want to talk to him".
Corbyn is not just going to change the voter appeal of Labour negatively, he will also change the nature of the party negatively. What happens to all of the party employees and the smart ambitious young people who want to one day be SpAds and MPs? What does Labour offer them except 10 years on the sidelines of politics watching as their leader sabotages any attempt at getting anywhere near the levers of power.
Less scandals I suppose. So corrupt spads who are in it for the money in the public coffers will have to work for a living.
He isn't actually a teetotaller - more like me, drinks a glass now and then to be sociable but has never really got a taste for it. Not sure he shares my liking for Coca-Cola though, imperialist brew that it is :-)
To be fair:
Jezza is fully entitled to a UK pension. How many of his former Labour colleagues could claim the same (sans English taxes to butter-up their tax-free idiocy)...?
Because Labour has just engaged in a voodoo poll, measuring simply those who care enough to get involved.
But that's the point. If the Blairite message couldn't GET normal people to care enough to sign up (even at bargain price), why would they get normal people to care about that message in a GE?
It might be that 'normal people' don't see getting involved with political parties as their thing. I'm a person who very much wants to be able to vote for Labour in a GE but didn't see the election of their party leader as any of my business.
Even with hindsight, I still don't.
If the Labour party and the legions of temporary sign-ups want to elect Mr Corbyn as Labour leader, that's up to them. My part comes in deciding who to vote for at the next GE.
SPEEDY..That should read.. The leader of her Majesty,s Opposition refuses to debate issues that affect the country with the Prime Minister in the HOC...that should bring in a few more Labour votes....NOT...Labour party voters are not as stupid as some of the current leaders seem to think they are......
That should read "David Cameron is moaning like a small child because Jeremy Corbyn doesn't want to talk to him".
It is the duty of the opposition to hold the government to account. Corbyn refusing PMQs is a dereliction of duty. I hope the speaker refuses this stupid request and forces Corbyn to be present at all times when the PM is present.
SPEEDY..That should read.. The leader of her Majesty,s Opposition refuses to debate issues that affect the country with the Prime Minister in the HOC...that should bring in a few more Labour votes....NOT...Labour party voters are not as stupid as some of the current leaders seem to think they are......
That should read "David Cameron is moaning like a small child because Jeremy Corbyn doesn't want to talk to him".
SPEEDY..That should read.. The leader of her Majesty,s Opposition refuses to debate issues that affect the country with the Prime Minister in the HOC...that should bring in a few more Labour votes....NOT...Labour party voters are not as stupid as some of the current leaders seem to think they are......
That should read "David Cameron is moaning like a small child because Jeremy Corbyn doesn't want to talk to him".
David Cameron's said nothing today. He will I'm sure happily answer questions from whoever is asking them, but if Mr Corbyn wishes to take the salary and expenses that come with the office of LotO, he should also act the part and not delegate his responsibilities to others.
SPEEDY..That should read.. The leader of her Majesty,s Opposition refuses to debate issues that affect the country with the Prime Minister in the HOC...that should bring in a few more Labour votes....NOT...Labour party voters are not as stupid as some of the current leaders seem to think they are......
That should read "David Cameron is moaning like a small child because Jeremy Corbyn doesn't want to talk to him".
Nothing to do with David Cameron. If Corbyn can't be bothered, then why should he? It's a long-standing convention that PMQs is contested between "equals" on the front benches. Usually the deputies fill in when the PM is away, although i seem to recall a recent occasion when it was prompted by Ed Miliband was indisposed.
I think that we may see a Lazarus like revival of the LDs. If Farron cannot exploit this then we will have Blue hegemony.
If anything this makes the LDs task much harder. Progress for the LDs demands the Oxygen of publicity and they are going to get sweet FA now.
And in the light of Corbyn, Farron is looking like the wrong choice.
Not sure, Corbyn shows the importance of energising your base... and Farron was a good choice to do that.
In terms of getting votes as The Sensible Party, I can see the advantage of Lamb. But relatively speaking, is Farron so barmy?
Who's going to be energised by Farron when Corbyn is the alternative?
The path for a Lib Dem revival is a centrist sensible party alternative from the two extremes of Labour or Tories. Step forward Nick Clegg.
I voted for Lamb as the candidate with substance. Farron is indeed now massively upstaged by Corbyn (by virtue of not being as barmy). So the future for the LDs remains pretty bleak. I certainly can't see another SDP moment (which went... fine, last time around) - though maybe the odd defector.
General comment - this whole thing is completely mad and I still can't quite believe it has happened. The shortsightedness of many (some very intelligent) people I know who voted for him is staggering, as is the subsequent triumphalism. Barring extraordinary events, the 'left', driven by the radical left (an actual '1%') have handed over power to the right for the next ten years at least.
Funny, I was thinking of 2010. I was absolutely gutted about David losing and thought Labour had made a terrible mistake in electing Ed who was clearly not credible.
Today, I think at the end I wanted Yvette to win, but I am not upset by Corbyn's victory and look forward to see how things progress.
Remember hearing Ed Miliband won on the radio back in 2010 and thinking to myself that 2015 was lost.
Right now, not sure what to think apart from it's going to be an interesting time ahead.
My dear Tyson let me congratulate your 2010 prescience. Sadly this has now deserted you totally.
Let me be plain as a PBer who has successfully administered the black spot to IDS, Howard, Ming, Brown and Ed :
There are simply not enough black spots on the worldwide population of Dalmatian dogs that would enable me to convey to you how totally bleak the foreseeable future is for Labour.
SPEEDY..That should read.. The leader of her Majesty,s Opposition refuses to debate issues that affect the country with the Prime Minister in the HOC...that should bring in a few more Labour votes....NOT...Labour party voters are not as stupid as some of the current leaders seem to think they are......
That should read "David Cameron is moaning like a small child because Jeremy Corbyn doesn't want to talk to him".
It is the duty of the opposition to hold the government to account. Corbyn refusing PMQs is a dereliction of duty. I hope the speaker refuses this stupid request and forces Corbyn to be present at all times when the PM is present.
They will hold government to account, just not with Jeremy Corbyn in a small questions and answer session once a week. If the PM wants a conversation with Corbyn fine, but he won't get many in the HoC.
Twitter Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 50m50 minutes ago Just spoken to Jeremy Corbyn. He's confirmed he intends to have other Labour MPs take his role at some sessions of PMQs
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 43m43 minutes ago Corbyn on PMQs: "David Cameron enjoys a bit of repartee but it's going to be one-way"
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 41m41 minutes ago Corbyn on PMQs "We should share it out a bit. I've been in touch with the speaker's office to ask about this."
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 28m28 minutes ago Corbyn quotes a friend: "the best leaders those that assume the position with reluctance because they do it best."
So Corbyn is going to pass on the only regularly scheduled opportunity he has to hold the government to account; the one weekly chance to ask the PM anything and he doesn't want to do it?
How can he seriously call himself the Leader of the Opposition if he can't be bothered to oppose the government?
Funny, I was thinking of 2010. I was absolutely gutted about David losing and thought Labour had made a terrible mistake in electing Ed who was clearly not credible.
Today, I think at the end I wanted Yvette to win, but I am not upset by Corbyn's victory and look forward to see how things progress.
Remember hearing Ed Miliband won on the radio back in 2010 and thinking to myself that 2015 was lost.
Right now, not sure what to think apart from it's going to be an interesting time ahead.
My dear Tyson let me congratulate your 2010 prescience. Sadly this has now deserted you totally.
Let me be plain as a PBer who has successfully administered the black spot to IDS, Howard, Ming, Brown and Ed :
There are simply not enough black spots on the worldwide population of Dalmatian dogs that would enable me to convey to you how totally bleak the foreseeable future is for Labour.
sPEEDY.. it is Corbyns job to be at PMQs when the PM is there..If he fails to do that then he will be monstered..and rightly so..iF Bercow lets him off the hook then the British, and International, press will not.
SPEEDY..That should read.. The leader of her Majesty,s Opposition refuses to debate issues that affect the country with the Prime Minister in the HOC...that should bring in a few more Labour votes....NOT...Labour party voters are not as stupid as some of the current leaders seem to think they are......
That should read "David Cameron is moaning like a small child because Jeremy Corbyn doesn't want to talk to him".
It is the duty of the opposition to hold the government to account. Corbyn refusing PMQs is a dereliction of duty. I hope the speaker refuses this stupid request and forces Corbyn to be present at all times when the PM is present.
They will hold government to account, just not with Jeremy Corbyn in a small questions and answer session once a week. If the PM wants a conversation with Corbyn fine, but he won't get many in the HoC.
You are defending the indefensible because your preferred leader has made a stupid decision. How can Labour hold the PM/Government to account if their chosen leader doesn't turn up to work?
Corbyn is not just going to change the voter appeal of Labour negatively, he will also change the nature of the party negatively. What happens to all of the party employees and the smart ambitious young people who want to one day be SpAds and MPs? What does Labour offer them except 10 years on the sidelines of politics watching as their leader sabotages any attempt at getting anywhere near the levers of power.
Stick at it would be my advice, Blair first got elected in 1983 under Foot, the first leader Cameron worked for as an MP was IDS, wonder what happened to them?
I think that we may see a Lazarus like revival of the LDs. If Farron cannot exploit this then we will have Blue hegemony.
If anything this makes the LDs task much harder. Progress for the LDs demands the Oxygen of publicity and they are going to get sweet FA now.
And in the light of Corbyn, Farron is looking like the wrong choice.
Not sure, Corbyn shows the importance of energising your base... and Farron was a good choice to do that.
In terms of getting votes as The Sensible Party, I can see the advantage of Lamb. But relatively speaking, is Farron so barmy?
Who's going to be energised by Farron when Corbyn is the alternative?
The path for a Lib Dem revival is a centrist sensible party alternative from the two extremes of Labour or Tories. Step forward Nick Clegg.
I voted for Lamb as the candidate with substance. Farron is indeed now massively upstaged by Corbyn (by virtue of not being as barmy). So the future for the LDs remains pretty bleak. I certainly can't see another SDP moment (which went... fine, last time around) - though maybe the odd defector.
General comment - this whole thing is completely mad and I still can't quite believe it has happened. The shortsightedness of many (some very intelligent) people I know who voted for him is staggering, as is the subsequent triumphalism. Barring extraordinary events, the 'left', driven by the radical left (an actual '1%') have handed over power to the right for the next ten years at least.
Surely there will be a breakaway of some sort if it's clear that Corbyn is not going anywhere soon. How can the centrists in the party possibly stand for election in 2020 on the policy platform of JC? The only question is whether we see a new 'SDP2' emerge, see a bunch of defections to existing parties or an 'Independent Labour' grouping emerge that clearly distance themselves from the leader.
Corbyn is not just going to change the voter appeal of Labour negatively, he will also change the nature of the party negatively. What happens to all of the party employees and the smart ambitious young people who want to one day be SpAds and MPs? What does Labour offer them except 10 years on the sidelines of politics watching as their leader sabotages any attempt at getting anywhere near the levers of power.
Tony Blair was first elected on the suicide note manifesto of 83. Ambitious youthful politicians should stick to Labour but not be tainted by the Corbynites, then flourish in the post Corbyn period. That is how New Labour was created. Most of the over 40s can kiss their careers goodbye so there will be a number of winnable seats coming free. Best steer clear of the marginals though, except for campaign experience and medals for a later more winnable seat.
SPEEDY..That should read.. The leader of her Majesty,s Opposition refuses to debate issues that affect the country with the Prime Minister in the HOC...that should bring in a few more Labour votes....NOT...Labour party voters are not as stupid as some of the current leaders seem to think they are......
That should read "David Cameron is moaning like a small child because Jeremy Corbyn doesn't want to talk to him".
It is the duty of the opposition to hold the government to account. Corbyn refusing PMQs is a dereliction of duty. I hope the speaker refuses this stupid request and forces Corbyn to be present at all times when the PM is present.
They will hold government to account, just not with Jeremy Corbyn in a small questions and answer session once a week. If the PM wants a conversation with Corbyn fine, but he won't get many in the HoC.
You are defending the indefensible because your preferred leader has made a stupid decision. How can Labour hold the PM/Government to account if their chosen leader doesn't turn up to work?
How any person think any party can take the government into account in 10 minutes per week in a question and answer session. Government is taken into account by the actions and words of it's members, not in PM question time.
The role of the opposition is to oppose the government, not to engage in pointless discussions.
Not sure, Corbyn shows the importance of energising your base... and Farron was a good choice to do that.
Why have diet Coke, when you can have the real thing?
Different folk are energised by different strokes.
The electorate - or some portion thereof - is energisable. The SNP have spotted this, Corbyn got on this, Farage has done his best with his "People's Army". If the Lib Dems want to ride the wave then Farron may be a reasonable choice to do so.
SPEEDY..That should read.. The leader of her Majesty,s Opposition refuses to debate issues that affect the country with the Prime Minister in the HOC...that should bring in a few more Labour votes....NOT...Labour party voters are not as stupid as some of the current leaders seem to think they are......
That should read "David Cameron is moaning like a small child because Jeremy Corbyn doesn't want to talk to him".
It is the duty of the opposition to hold the government to account. Corbyn refusing PMQs is a dereliction of duty. I hope the speaker refuses this stupid request and forces Corbyn to be present at all times when the PM is present.
They will hold government to account, just not with Jeremy Corbyn in a small questions and answer session once a week. If the PM wants a conversation with Corbyn fine, but he won't get many in the HoC.
You are defending the indefensible because your preferred leader has made a stupid decision. How can Labour hold the PM/Government to account if their chosen leader doesn't turn up to work?
It's not just about holding the government to account. PMQs is the one guaranteed opportunity each week to get on TV and build a positive image with the public
Twitter Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 50m50 minutes ago Just spoken to Jeremy Corbyn. He's confirmed he intends to have other Labour MPs take his role at some sessions of PMQs
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 43m43 minutes ago Corbyn on PMQs: "David Cameron enjoys a bit of repartee but it's going to be one-way"
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 41m41 minutes ago Corbyn on PMQs "We should share it out a bit. I've been in touch with the speaker's office to ask about this."
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 28m28 minutes ago Corbyn quotes a friend: "the best leaders those that assume the position with reluctance because they do it best."
So Corbyn is going to pass on the only regularly scheduled opportunity he has to hold the government to account; the one weekly chance to ask the PM anything and he doesn't want to do it?
How can he seriously call himself the Leader of the Opposition if he can't be bothered to oppose the government?
He's more comfortable opposing the government in votes and in rallies, fits with his style of irregular warfare, also that means that Cameron will have to prepare to deal with dozens of different shadow ministers, each with a distinctive style and quality.
I doubt the Speaker will allow it. And anyway, if the LOTO can appoint anyone to act on his behalf, there's nothing stopping Cameron doing the same.
That would be great. Could I propose Dan Castellaneta?
SPEEDY..That should read.. The leader of her Majesty,s Opposition refuses to debate issues that affect the country with the Prime Minister in the HOC...that should bring in a few more Labour votes....NOT...Labour party voters are not as stupid as some of the current leaders seem to think they are......
That should read "David Cameron is moaning like a small child because Jeremy Corbyn doesn't want to talk to him".
It is the duty of the opposition to hold the government to account. Corbyn refusing PMQs is a dereliction of duty. I hope the speaker refuses this stupid request and forces Corbyn to be present at all times when the PM is present.
They will hold government to account, just not with Jeremy Corbyn in a small questions and answer session once a week. If the PM wants a conversation with Corbyn fine, but he won't get many in the HoC.
You are defending the indefensible because your preferred leader has made a stupid decision. How can Labour hold the PM/Government to account if their chosen leader doesn't turn up to work?
How any person think any party can take the government into account in 10 minutes per week in a question and answer session. Government is taken into account by the actions and words of it's members, not in PM question time.
The role of the opposition is to oppose the government, not to engage in pointless discussions.
The phrase is "hold the Government to account".
I'm sure if Corbyn were to propose PMQs be abolished, Cameron would be happy to oblige...
SPEEDY..That should read.. The leader of her Majesty,s Opposition refuses to debate issues that affect the country with the Prime Minister in the HOC...that should bring in a few more Labour votes....NOT...Labour party voters are not as stupid as some of the current leaders seem to think they are......
That should read "David Cameron is moaning like a small child because Jeremy Corbyn doesn't want to talk to him".
It is the duty of the opposition to hold the government to account. Corbyn refusing PMQs is a dereliction of duty. I hope the speaker refuses this stupid request and forces Corbyn to be present at all times when the PM is present.
They will hold government to account, just not with Jeremy Corbyn in a small questions and answer session once a week. If the PM wants a conversation with Corbyn fine, but he won't get many in the HoC.
You are defending the indefensible because your preferred leader has made a stupid decision. How can Labour hold the PM/Government to account if their chosen leader doesn't turn up to work?
It's not just about holding the government to account. PMQs is the one guaranteed opportunity each week to get on TV and build a positive image with the public
On TV? How many people watch PMQ regularly ? 10 thousand ?
If Corbyn want's to go on TV he will get more time and a larger audience in rallies with lots of TV cameras and journalists.
SPEEDY..That should read.. The leader of her Majesty,s Opposition refuses to debate issues that affect the country with the Prime Minister in the HOC...that should bring in a few more Labour votes....NOT...Labour party voters are not as stupid as some of the current leaders seem to think they are......
That should read "David Cameron is moaning like a small child because Jeremy Corbyn doesn't want to talk to him".
It is the duty of the opposition to hold the government to account. Corbyn refusing PMQs is a dereliction of duty. I hope the speaker refuses this stupid request and forces Corbyn to be present at all times when the PM is present.
If Corbyn can't be arsed to do his job then fine, the Speaker should skip the six questions the LOTO can't be arsed to ask and go on to asking six additional backbenchers to ask 1 question each. I think Convention would be that'd be approximate 3 Tory, 2 Labour and 1 other party backbenchers who'd get a go to ask an additional question.
Corbyn shouldn't have the ability to transfer his duty to someone else.
SPEEDY..That should read.. The leader of her Majesty,s Opposition refuses to debate issues that affect the country with the Prime Minister in the HOC...that should bring in a few more Labour votes....NOT...Labour party voters are not as stupid as some of the current leaders seem to think they are......
That should read "David Cameron is moaning like a small child because Jeremy Corbyn doesn't want to talk to him".
It is the duty of the opposition to hold the government to account. Corbyn refusing PMQs is a dereliction of duty. I hope the speaker refuses this stupid request and forces Corbyn to be present at all times when the PM is present.
They will hold government to account, just not with Jeremy Corbyn in a small questions and answer session once a week. If the PM wants a conversation with Corbyn fine, but he won't get many in the HoC.
You are defending the indefensible because your preferred leader has made a stupid decision. How can Labour hold the PM/Government to account if their chosen leader doesn't turn up to work?
It's not just about holding the government to account. PMQs is the one guaranteed opportunity each week to get on TV and build a positive image with the public
On TV? How many people watch PMQ regularly ? 10 thousand ?
I doubt many people watch the whole thing but many millions will watch the snippets they show on the news
I think that we may see a Lazarus like revival of the LDs. If Farron cannot exploit this then we will have Blue hegemony.
If anything this makes the LDs task much harder. Progress for the LDs demands the Oxygen of publicity and they are going to get sweet FA now.
And in the light of Corbyn, Farron is looking like the wrong choice.
Not sure, Corbyn shows the importance of energising your base... and Farron was a good choice to do that.
In terms of getting votes as The Sensible Party, I can see the advantage of Lamb. But relatively speaking, is Farron so barmy?
Who's going to be energised by Farron when Corbyn is the alternative?
The path for a Lib Dem revival is a centrist sensible party alternative from the two extremes of Labour or Tories. Step forward Nick Clegg.
I voted for Lamb as the candidate with substance. Farron is indeed now massively upstaged by Corbyn (by virtue of not being as barmy). So the future for the LDs remains pretty bleak. I certainly can't see another SDP moment (which went... fine, last time around) - though maybe the odd defector.
General comment - this whole thing is completely mad and I still can't quite believe it has happened. The shortsightedness of many (some very intelligent) people I know who voted for him is staggering, as is the subsequent triumphalism. Barring extraordinary events, the 'left', driven by the radical left (an actual '1%') have handed over power to the right for the next ten years at least.
Surely there will be a breakaway of some sort if it's clear that Corbyn is not going anywhere soon. How can the centrists in the party possibly stand for election in 2020 on the policy platform of JC? The only question is whether we see a new 'SDP2' emerge, see a bunch of defections to existing parties or an 'Independent Labour' grouping emerge that clearly distance themselves from the leader.
I dunno. When it comes to predictions my crystal balls are big, but fuzzy.
More likely is for the anti- block to hunker down for a bit, wait till he's a few mega-gaffes down the road and the polls are sub 20s, and stab him in the front in true (red) Tory fashion.
Twitter Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 50m50 minutes ago Just spoken to Jeremy Corbyn. He's confirmed he intends to have other Labour MPs take his role at some sessions of PMQs
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 43m43 minutes ago Corbyn on PMQs: "David Cameron enjoys a bit of repartee but it's going to be one-way"
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 41m41 minutes ago Corbyn on PMQs "We should share it out a bit. I've been in touch with the speaker's office to ask about this."
Greg Dawson @Gregstweet 28m28 minutes ago Corbyn quotes a friend: "the best leaders those that assume the position with reluctance because they do it best."
So Corbyn is going to pass on the only regularly scheduled opportunity he has to hold the government to account; the one weekly chance to ask the PM anything and he doesn't want to do it?
How can he seriously call himself the Leader of the Opposition if he can't be bothered to oppose the government?
He's more comfortable opposing the government in votes and in rallies, fits with his style of irregular warfare, also that means that Cameron will have to prepare to deal with dozens of different shadow ministers, each with a distinctive style and quality.
That reads as "He is more comfortable talking only to those who share his beliefs, and he doesn't dare want to be told he's wrong or that his policies might have negative consequences. The PM should not have to deal with someone so important on Wednesdays, that's why he'll delegate the job to someone more junior." What utter bollocks, and contempt for those who elected him, as well as for the PM himself and the House of Commons (not that he cares much about that of course). I imagine the Squeaker might not be too pleased either.
Will the Tories give him a standing ovation at PMQs?
SPEEDY..That should read.. The leader of her Majesty,s Opposition refuses to debate issues that affect the country with the Prime Minister in the HOC...that should bring in a few more Labour votes....NOT...Labour party voters are not as stupid as some of the current leaders seem to think they are......
That should read "David Cameron is moaning like a small child because Jeremy Corbyn doesn't want to talk to him".
It is the duty of the opposition to hold the government to account. Corbyn refusing PMQs is a dereliction of duty. I hope the speaker refuses this stupid request and forces Corbyn to be present at all times when the PM is present.
If Corbyn can't be arsed to do his job then fine, the Speaker should skip the six questions the LOTO can't be arsed to ask and go on to asking six additional backbenchers to ask 1 question each. I think Convention would be that'd be approximate 3 Tory, 2 Labour and 1 other party backbenchers who'd get a go to ask an additional question.
1 for Labour loyalists, and 1 for Labour dissenters
"FWIW Tim Farron is at the #refugeeswelcome rally today."
Thanks for that. I didn't consider the Lib Dems because as Jonathan noted earlier they still show no signs of having a pulse so are presumed dead.
(But you're the doc so will be advised)
I think that we may see a Lazarus like revival of the LDs. If Farron cannot exploit this then we will have Blue hegemony.
If the remaining LDs (and UKIP) can't take advantage of their opponents electing a complete nutcase as leader, then they have no future in politics.
Farron is on the left too, the big winner other than Cameron is Farage. With EU ref looming he can attack the traditional Labour white working class vote. Indeed if anything will topple Corbyn it could be Labour coming behind UKIP in a by election. Much as the LDs prospered under IDS so UKIP will prosper under Corbyn
Farron is nowhere near the far Left position of Corbyn, and much more robust on terrorism etc. If Corbyn comes out for BOO then he may well pick up a lot of pro-european Labour centrists.
The only real winner today is Cameron. He has the luck of the devil.
Farron has already said he opposes airstrikes in Syria, there is little difference on foreign policy between him and Corbyn. There are few pro-European Labour centrist voters outside of central London and parts of the South, there are many anti immigration, Labour working class otherwise centrist voters in marginal seats across the country who will be fertile ground for UKIP. Cameron has already won a majority and has a clear poll lead, so while he will be pleased with the result he was already in a a strong position, the real winner is Farage who not only has EU ref on the horizon but now a pro immigration, PC, Islington leftie leading the Labour Party, a leader less appealing to white working class traditional Labour voters it would be difficult to find
SPEEDY..That should read.. The leader of her Majesty,s Opposition refuses to debate issues that affect the country with the Prime Minister in the HOC...that should bring in a few more Labour votes....NOT...Labour party voters are not as stupid as some of the current leaders seem to think they are......
That should read "David Cameron is moaning like a small child because Jeremy Corbyn doesn't want to talk to him".
It is the duty of the opposition to hold the government to account. Corbyn refusing PMQs is a dereliction of duty. I hope the speaker refuses this stupid request and forces Corbyn to be present at all times when the PM is present.
They will hold government to account, just not with Jeremy Corbyn in a small questions and answer session once a week. If the PM wants a conversation with Corbyn fine, but he won't get many in the HoC.
Vacating the field for your opponent is never a terribly wise position unless of course your opponent is inflicting untold damage to themselves ....
SPEEDY..That should read.. The leader of her Majesty,s Opposition refuses to debate issues that affect the country with the Prime Minister in the HOC...that should bring in a few more Labour votes....NOT...Labour party voters are not as stupid as some of the current leaders seem to think they are......
That should read "David Cameron is moaning like a small child because Jeremy Corbyn doesn't want to talk to him".
It is the duty of the opposition to hold the government to account. Corbyn refusing PMQs is a dereliction of duty. I hope the speaker refuses this stupid request and forces Corbyn to be present at all times when the PM is present.
They will hold government to account, just not with Jeremy Corbyn in a small questions and answer session once a week. If the PM wants a conversation with Corbyn fine, but he won't get many in the HoC.
You are defending the indefensible because your preferred leader has made a stupid decision. How can Labour hold the PM/Government to account if their chosen leader doesn't turn up to work?
How any person think any party can take the government into account in 10 minutes per week in a question and answer session. Government is taken into account by the actions and words of it's members, not in PM question time.
The role of the opposition is to oppose the government, not to engage in pointless discussions.
I think Corbyn will quickly discover that the rules are not his to make.
His new job description says that he should be in the HoC at midday on Wednesday, and be ready to ask six questions to the PM - who will of course also turn up unless he has a good reason not to be there. The LotO takes a £70k salary and a GCS car for the job, if he doesn't want to do it he should refuse the bonus and the car.
Just a thought - by giving him a car and protection, the police will know pretty much every meeting he has from now on. Could be interesting.
SPEEDY..That should read.. The leader of her Majesty,s Opposition refuses to debate issues that affect the country with the Prime Minister in the HOC...that should bring in a few more Labour votes....NOT...Labour party voters are not as stupid as some of the current leaders seem to think they are......
That should read "David Cameron is moaning like a small child because Jeremy Corbyn doesn't want to talk to him".
It is the duty of the opposition to hold the government to account. Corbyn refusing PMQs is a dereliction of duty. I hope the speaker refuses this stupid request and forces Corbyn to be present at all times when the PM is present.
They will hold government to account, just not with Jeremy Corbyn in a small questions and answer session once a week. If the PM wants a conversation with Corbyn fine, but he won't get many in the HoC.
It seems quite likely that Mr Corbyn's idea of 'holding the government to account' will be to encourage non-democratic means: street protests and strikes and all that sort of 1970's/1980's trouble.
I very much want Mr Corbyn to prove me wrong and show his support for our democracy.
I think that we may see a Lazarus like revival of the LDs. If Farron cannot exploit this then we will have Blue hegemony.
If anything this makes the LDs task much harder. Progress for the LDs demands the Oxygen of publicity and they are going to get sweet FA now.
And in the light of Corbyn, Farron is looking like the wrong choice.
Not sure, Corbyn shows the importance of energising your base... and Farron was a good choice to do that.
In terms of getting votes as The Sensible Party, I can see the advantage of Lamb. But relatively speaking, is Farron so barmy?
Who's going to be energised by Farron when Corbyn is the alternative?
The path for a Lib Dem revival is a centrist sensible party alternative from the two extremes of Labour or Tories. Step forward Nick Clegg.
General comment - this whole thing is completely mad and I still can't quite believe it has happened. The shortsightedness of many (some very intelligent) people I know who voted for him is staggering, as is the subsequent triumphalism. Barring extraordinary events, the 'left', driven by the radical left (an actual '1%') have handed over power to the right for the next ten years at least.
Surely there will be a breakaway of some sort if it's clear that Corbyn is not going anywhere soon. How can the centrists in the party possibly stand for election in 2020 on the policy platform of JC? The only question is whether we see a new 'SDP2' emerge, see a bunch of defections to existing parties or an 'Independent Labour' grouping emerge that clearly distance themselves from the leader.
I dunno. When it comes to predictions my crystal balls are big, but fuzzy.
More likely is for the anti- block to hunker down for a bit, wait till he's a few mega-gaffes down the road and the polls are sub 20s, and stab him in the front in true (red) Tory fashion.
Tough to imagine what policies a breakaway might coalesce around. Currently they just have 'not Tory' and 'not Corbyn' - doesn't get them very far. Altough I think that a breakaway would be the entirely sensible thing to do, unless someone has a really bright idea, I suspect any such move will hold off until Corbyn announces his mad policies.
(re earlier comments) Don't imagine Corbyn getting much of a welcome at the White House.Not in the run up to the next Presidential election.
I'm a tiny bit surprised he's immediately done something that highlights his primary weakness - that he's a an activist/agitator, rather than a persuader/leader.
JackW- in all the years of pbCOM I think we have both been on exactly the same page when it comes to political predictions. Uncannily similar. You probably weren't here a few moons ago, but I was extolling your hyper intelligence which must be slightly larger than Canada.
And, up until last night, my political antennae were telling me that Corbyn would be an abject disaster for Labour. But today I don't know. You're probably right Jack, but if you are wrong, I will be there to remind you of your first mistake. And everyone makes mistakes- even the mighty, mighty, seemingly impregnable JackW.
Funny, I was thinking of 2010. I was absolutely gutted about David losing and thought Labour had made a terrible mistake in electing Ed who was clearly not credible.
Today, I think at the end I wanted Yvette to win, but I am not upset by Corbyn's victory and look forward to see how things progress.
Remember hearing Ed Miliband won on the radio back in 2010 and thinking to myself that 2015 was lost.
Right now, not sure what to think apart from it's going to be an interesting time ahead.
My dear Tyson let me congratulate your 2010 prescience. Sadly this has now deserted you totally.
Let me be plain as a PBer who has successfully administered the black spot to IDS, Howard, Ming, Brown and Ed :
There are simply not enough black spots on the worldwide population of Dalmatian dogs that would enable me to convey to you how totally bleak the foreseeable future is for Labour.
I think that we may see a Lazarus like revival of the LDs. If Farron cannot exploit this then we will have Blue hegemony.
If anything this makes the LDs task much harder. Progress for the LDs demands the Oxygen of publicity and they are going to get sweet FA now.
And in the light of Corbyn, Farron is looking like the wrong choice.
Not sure, Corbyn shows the importance of energising your base... and Farron was a good choice to do that.
In terms of getting votes as The Sensible Party, I can see the advantage of Lamb. But relatively speaking, is Farron so barmy?
Who's going to be energised by Farron when Corbyn is the alternative?
The path for a Lib Dem revival is a centrist sensible party alternative from the two extremes of Labour or Tories. Step forward Nick Clegg.
General comment - this whole thing is completely mad and I still can't quite believe it has happened. The shortsightedness of many (some very intelligent) people I know who voted for him is staggering, as is the subsequent triumphalism. Barring extraordinary events, the 'left', driven by the radical left (an actual '1%') have handed over power to the right for the next ten years at least.
Surely there will be a breakaway of some sort if it's clear that Corbyn is not going anywhere soon. How can the centrists in the party possibly stand for election in 2020 on the policy platform of JC? The only question is whether we see a new 'SDP2' emerge, see a bunch of defections to existing parties or an 'Independent Labour' grouping emerge that clearly distance themselves from the leader.
I dunno. When it comes to predictions my crystal balls are big, but fuzzy.
More likely is for the anti- block to hunker down for a bit, wait till he's a few mega-gaffes down the road and the polls are sub 20s, and stab him in the front in true (red) Tory fashion.
Tough to imagine what policies a breakaway might coalesce around. Currently they just have 'not Tory' and 'not Corbyn' - doesn't get them very far. Altough I think that a breakaway would be the entirely sensible thing to do, unless someone has a really bright idea, I suspect any such move will hold off until Corbyn announces his mad policies.
(re earlier comments) Don't imagine Corbyn getting much of a welcome at the White House.Not in the run up to the next Presidential election.
I think that we may see a Lazarus like revival of the LDs. If Farron cannot exploit this then we will have Blue hegemony.
If anything this makes the LDs task much harder. Progress for the LDs demands the Oxygen of publicity and they are going to get sweet FA now.
And in the light of Corbyn, Farron is looking like the wrong choice.
Not sure, Corbyn shows the importance of energising your base... and Farron was a good choice to do that.
In terms of getting votes as The Sensible Party, I can see the advantage of Lamb. But relatively speaking, is Farron so barmy?
Who's going to be energised by Farron when Corbyn is the alternative?
The path for a Lib Dem revival is a centrist sensible party alternative from the two extremes of Labour or Tories. Step forward Nick Clegg.
General comment - this whole thing is completely mad and I still can't quite believe it has happened. The shortsightedness of many (some very intelligent) people I know who voted for him is staggering, as is the subsequent triumphalism. Barring extraordinary events, the 'left', driven by the radical left (an actual '1%') have handed over power to the right for the next ten years at least.
Surely there will be a breakaway of some sort if it's clear that Corbyn is not going anywhere soon. How can the centrists in the party possibly stand for election in 2020 on the policy platform of JC? The only question is whether we see a new 'SDP2' emerge, see a bunch of defections to existing parties or an 'Independent Labour' grouping emerge that clearly distance themselves from the leader.
I dunno. When it comes to predictions my crystal balls are big, but fuzzy.
More likely is for the anti- block to hunker down for a bit, wait till he's a few mega-gaffes down the road and the polls are sub 20s, and stab him in the front in true (red) Tory fashion.
Tough to imagine what policies a breakaway might coalesce around. Currently they just have 'not Tory' and 'not Corbyn' - doesn't get them very far. Altough I think that a breakaway would be the entirely sensible thing to do, unless someone has a really bright idea, I suspect any such move will hold off until Corbyn announces his mad policies.
(re earlier comments) Don't imagine Corbyn getting much of a welcome at the White House.Not in the run up to the next Presidential election.
Though he may do with Bernie Sanders
There will be no breakaway while we have FPTP. There's absolutely no point.
Calum S @CalumSPlath 12m12 minutes ago all of these people "resigning" from the Shadow Cabinet remind me of someone breaking up with their partner just as they're getting dumped
I think they all signalled their intentions pretty clearly and none of them were ever even friends in quite the same way as JC's other bosom buddies.
Good on Jez for ducking PMQ's. He doesn't want to do it, week in, week out. It would give him sleepless nights and stress him out. Perfectly sensible- pass that baton to Tom, and hope that the poor fella doesn't sweat quite as much as he did today (I would give Tom a health once over- we wouldn't want him keeling over).
Jez didn't want to be leader either, and look where his lack of ambition got him.
I'm a tiny bit surprised he's immediately done something that highlights his primary weakness - that he's a an activist/agitator, rather than a persuader/leader.
"FWIW Tim Farron is at the #refugeeswelcome rally today."
Thanks for that. I didn't consider the Lib Dems because as Jonathan noted earlier they still show no signs of having a pulse so are presumed dead.
(But you're the doc so will be advised)
I think that we may see a Lazarus like revival of the LDs. If Farron cannot exploit this then we will have Blue hegemony.
If the remaining LDs (and UKIP) can't take advantage of their opponents electing a complete nutcase as leader, then they have no future in politics.
Farron is on the left too, the big winner other than Cameron is Farage. With EU ref looming he can attack the traditional Labour white working class vote. Indeed if anything will topple Corbyn it could be Labour coming behind UKIP in a by election. Much as the LDs prospered under IDS so UKIP will prosper under Corbyn
Farron is nowhere near the far Left position of Corbyn, and much more robust on terrorism etc. If Corbyn comes out for BOO then he may well pick up a lot of pro-european Labour centrists.
The only real winner today is Cameron. He has the luck of the devil.
Farron has already said he opposes airstrikes in Syria, there is little difference on foreign policy between him and Corbyn. There are few pro-European Labour centrist voters outside of central London and parts of the South, there are many anti immigration, Labour working class otherwise centrist voters in marginal seats across the country who will be fertile ground for UKIP. Cameron has already won a majority and has a clear poll lead, so while he will be pleased with the result he was already in a a strong position, the real winner is Farage who not only has EU ref on the horizon but now a pro immigration, PC, Islington leftie leading the Labour Party, a leader less appealing to white working class traditional Labour voters it would be difficult to find
Corbyn's anti austerity views may go down well with kippers and his position on immigration is surprisingly similar to Farage's: withdrawal from the EU and favouring non-EU migrants and refugees. Even his foreign policy is similar with opposition to Mid East adventures and apologism for Putinism. Perhaps we will see Corbyn and Farage sharing more than one platform ;-)
SPEEDY..That should read.. The leader of her Majesty,s Opposition refuses to debate issues that affect the country with the Prime Minister in the HOC...that should bring in a few more Labour votes....NOT...Labour party voters are not as stupid as some of the current leaders seem to think they are......
That should read "David Cameron is moaning like a small child because Jeremy Corbyn doesn't want to talk to him".
It is the duty of the opposition to hold the government to account. Corbyn refusing PMQs is a dereliction of duty. I hope the speaker refuses this stupid request and forces Corbyn to be present at all times when the PM is present.
They will hold government to account, just not with Jeremy Corbyn in a small questions and answer session once a week. If the PM wants a conversation with Corbyn fine, but he won't get many in the HoC.
You are defending the indefensible because your preferred leader has made a stupid decision. How can Labour hold the PM/Government to account if their chosen leader doesn't turn up to work?
It's not just about holding the government to account. PMQs is the one guaranteed opportunity each week to get on TV and build a positive image with the public
Do you think JC might realise that PMQs is unlikely to help build a positive image? Who would dress him?
YES at Ken dismissing the resignations of Rachel Reeves and Tristram Hunt. "You say they're big figures - the public doesn't have a clue who they are."
Exactly. I don't agree with Corbyn but I have to laugh at anyone who thinks that Rachel Reeves is a huge loss. She can now spend her free time getting elocution lessons.
Also, in regards to people saying Strugeon plays politics of course she does! But when Conservative Chancellor George Osborne does it, he is an amazing political genius and the politician of our times. Yet when Sturgeon does it, she's bad/mad/terrible?
On Liz Kendall, it's not just about having Blairite ideology, it's also about having the communication skills, charm, and charisma of Blair 1994 - 2002. Kendall has none of these things. And as someone said Blairism is a discredited ideology - a lot of the cynicism among the public in regard to politicians goes back to the Blair era and its spin culture. A lot of Blair's own politics - especially in regard to immigration - would be out of favour now.
Labour's biggest issue is the sheer mediocrity within the party.
YES at Ken dismissing the resignations of Rachel Reeves and Tristram Hunt. "You say they're big figures - the public doesn't have a clue who they are."
Exactly. I don't agree with Corbyn but I have to laugh at anyone who thinks that Rachel Reeves is a huge loss. She can now spend her free time getting elocution lessons.
Also, in regards to people saying Strugeon plays politics of course she does! But when Conservative Chancellor George Osborne does it, he is an amazing political genius and the politician of our times. Yet when Sturgeon does it, she's bad/mad/terrible?
On Liz Kendall, it's not just about having Blairite ideology, it's also about having the communication skills, charm, and charisma of Blair 1994 - 2002. Kendall has none of these things. And as someone said Blairism is a discredited ideology - a lot of the cynicism among the public in regard to politicians goes back to the Blair era and its spin culture. A lot of Blair's own politics - especially in regard to immigration - would be out of favour now.
Labour's biggest issue is the sheer mediocrity within the party.
Thanks - I've never joined a party before, but with JC as the opposition it's clear that there's only one sensible party in the UK right now.
MASSIVE SPOILER: Commenters on PB are Conservatives
Even the floating voters on pb are Conservatives.
I've voted in various elections Tory, Lib Dem, Plaid ( long long time ago), and yes Labour depending on the election, the candidate, the voting system, and the circumstance. True my world view is not exactly John Prescott shall we say a rule, but I'm also on record that I don't think Carwyn Jones does a bad job here in Wales ( should spend more on the NHS and less elsewhere mind) and he is exactly the sort of pragmatic safe left of centre competent person Labour used to have lots of whose motives you could not reasonably question, and whom I never saw as an active danger.
However, the bottom line about today is that LOTO is an absolute menace to this country, its security, and the real welfare of the vast majority of people living in it. The Labour Party truly entered Alice in Wonderland and the Mad Hatter is running the show. The sight of two London MPs ( Thornberry plus one) wrestling with the tautology of "I wanted him to win of course but I voted for Andy/Yvette" shows the plot is utterly and totally lost.
The man is a real danger and he needs calling out as such.
Ha Ha Ha, back behind the sofa jelly boy
Fuck off
Is Malcolm still drunk?
Cockroach always has to lower the tone of the debate.
Comments
A two week old article but very relevant even more so now.
http://www.newsit.gr/politikh/Sygxaritiria-minymata-SYRIZA-kai-LAE-gia-tin-eklogi-Kormpin/430024
And in the light of Corbyn, Farron is looking like the wrong choice.
"Labour are now a serious risk to our nation's security, our economy's security and your family's security. Whether it's weakening our defences, raising taxes on jobs and earnings, racking up more debt and welfare or driving up the cost of living by printing money – Jeremy Corbyn's Labour party will hurt working people. This is a very serious moment for our country – the Conservatives will continue to deliver stability, security and opportunity for working people."
In terms of getting votes as The Sensible Party, I can see the advantage of Lamb. But relatively speaking, is Farron so barmy?
The path for a Lib Dem revival is a centrist sensible party alternative from the two extremes of Labour or Tories. Step forward Nick Clegg.
all of these people "resigning" from the Shadow Cabinet remind me of someone breaking up with their partner just as they're getting dumped
The only real winner today is Cameron. He has the luck of the devil.
2 Aircraft carriers that when completed, will not have any planes to fly off for upto 10 years. Aircraft carriers require a support fleet of destroyers, frigates, oilers etc, which with the best will in the world, we ain't got or even the crews to man them.
As for the Grunts, army and marines.........
Ah well, we will be able to depend on the reserves? Er! nope. Why should sensible people volunteer to be away from their families, friends, work and seniority at work for 2 year periods? Result, severe reserve manpower shortage, except in the advertising campaign agency teams.
Trident systems, bought off the shelf from the US who still hold the firing keys. We pay, we run, they set off the fireworks. But hey ho, it supports the myth that the UK is still a nuclear power.
If, we decide to have no capability to enforce our (British) will in other parts of the world, so be it, we are nearly there already. If the PM decides that he wants to play with the big boys in Syria and/or elsewhere, then he will have to expand the military to back to over 200,000 from it's present 80k.
Whatever he thinks, the PM should be told that bombing targets with expensive rockets from drones is only part of the answer.
Boots need to be on the ground to take and hold, take and hold. Aircover with A10's or equivalents (Apaches very sexy, very expensive to maintain in combat situations best suited to hunting), proper fighters (not designed by committees to be all things to no one in particular) to be air attack and defense. A large navy with some very big ships with lots of guns makes any threat more pointedly enforceable. All very expensive, but in these times of austerity, we must all tighten our belts, etc. et bloody cetera.
/pedant
[Crap: I hate the edit facility....
Should his job be one of the things he should be doing? Yes.
So corrupt spads who are in it for the money in the public coffers will have to work for a living.
Jezza is fully entitled to a UK pension. How many of his former Labour colleagues could claim the same (sans English taxes to butter-up their tax-free idiocy)...?
Even with hindsight, I still don't.
If the Labour party and the legions of temporary sign-ups want to elect Mr Corbyn as Labour leader, that's up to them. My part comes in deciding who to vote for at the next GE.
General comment - this whole thing is completely mad and I still can't quite believe it has happened. The shortsightedness of many (some very intelligent) people I know who voted for him is staggering, as is the subsequent triumphalism. Barring extraordinary events, the 'left', driven by the radical left (an actual '1%') have handed over power to the right for the next ten years at least.
Let me be plain as a PBer who has successfully administered the black spot to IDS, Howard, Ming, Brown and Ed :
There are simply not enough black spots on the worldwide population of Dalmatian dogs that would enable me to convey to you how totally bleak the foreseeable future is for Labour.
Sorry for your loss.
If the PM wants a conversation with Corbyn fine, but he won't get many in the HoC.
The role of the opposition is to oppose the government, not to engage in pointless discussions.
The electorate - or some portion thereof - is energisable. The SNP have spotted this, Corbyn got on this, Farage has done his best with his "People's Army". If the Lib Dems want to ride the wave then Farron may be a reasonable choice to do so.
I'm sure if Corbyn were to propose PMQs be abolished, Cameron would be happy to oblige...
How many people watch PMQ regularly ? 10 thousand ?
If Corbyn want's to go on TV he will get more time and a larger audience in rallies with lots of TV cameras and journalists.
New Thread New Thread
Corbyn shouldn't have the ability to transfer his duty to someone else.
More likely is for the anti- block to hunker down for a bit, wait till he's a few mega-gaffes down the road and the polls are sub 20s, and stab him in the front in true (red) Tory fashion.
Are you the old Plato?
BTW- Trotsky thinks you have the most stunning ID photograph, even if she thinks that is a bit dogogynist
Sound familiar?
Vanilla developed an allergy to me so had to start a new ID.
His new job description says that he should be in the HoC at midday on Wednesday, and be ready to ask six questions to the PM - who will of course also turn up unless he has a good reason not to be there. The LotO takes a £70k salary and a GCS car for the job, if he doesn't want to do it he should refuse the bonus and the car.
Just a thought - by giving him a car and protection, the police will know pretty much every meeting he has from now on. Could be interesting.
I very much want Mr Corbyn to prove me wrong and show his support for our democracy.
(re earlier comments) Don't imagine Corbyn getting much of a welcome at the White House.Not in the run up to the next Presidential election.
I'm a tiny bit surprised he's immediately done something that highlights his primary weakness - that he's a an activist/agitator, rather than a persuader/leader.
And, up until last night, my political antennae were telling me that Corbyn would be an abject disaster for Labour. But today I don't know. You're probably right Jack, but if you are wrong, I will be there to remind you of your first mistake. And everyone makes mistakes- even the mighty, mighty, seemingly impregnable JackW.
Jez didn't want to be leader either, and look where his lack of ambition got him.
Also, in regards to people saying Strugeon plays politics of course she does! But when Conservative Chancellor George Osborne does it, he is an amazing political genius and the politician of our times. Yet when Sturgeon does it, she's bad/mad/terrible?
On Liz Kendall, it's not just about having Blairite ideology, it's also about having the communication skills, charm, and charisma of Blair 1994 - 2002. Kendall has none of these things. And as someone said Blairism is a discredited ideology - a lot of the cynicism among the public in regard to politicians goes back to the Blair era and its spin culture. A lot of Blair's own politics - especially in regard to immigration - would be out of favour now.
Labour's biggest issue is the sheer mediocrity within the party.