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    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    So Germany announces a free for all so all and sundry cross the Med, and then puts up the borders so they're all stuck in other countries?

    What an omnishambles. She's the worst German leader in recent memory.
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    MTimT said:

    Omnium said:

    MTimT said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT

    felix said:


    I taught nothing - twas how the students and others used it. BTW - thisis not the USA.

    Hah - I'm sure you taught them something.

    These tamed down equivalents are tricky though. For a long time I imagined that 'Berk' was a pretty tame insult, much the same as 'Chump' say. It turns out of course that it isn't.

    As I've got older though I realise that 'strong' language gets you nowhere. 'Fool' is quite sufficient to condemn someone really. I think I'll have really grown up properly when I feel myself to be safe from that epithet. I suspect that will never happen.

    The 'strength' of the language lies in the intent behind it, not the words. "Fool" spat out with contempt is every bit as strong as any swear word, whereas 'f**king' used without emotion as a space filler or emphatic is not a swear word at all, just entirely unnecessary.
    Yes, entirely true. "You old Bastard" if delivered by an Aussie is a nice warming sort of phrase. If delivered by a Scotsman you start to go for your stored weaponry, and wonder what's this kilted fellow doing in my house!
    Had a mate from the East End who would great his closest friends with "[name}! You old c**t!"
    Ratbag is the chosen word of friendship from me.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,105

    And the tens of thousands en route?

    SeanT said:

    Well this was totally unexpected. Not.

    @hughesroland 7m7 minutes ago
    Austrian paper says Germany to reintroduce border control in an hour's time. Sheesh. http://www.krone.at/Welt/Deutschland_korrigiert_Kurs_in_der_Asylpolitik-Kontrollen_an_Grenze-Story-471848

    Basically the article translates as: Germany will introduce border controls between itself and Austria as from 5pm this afternoon with the purpose of ascertaining genuine asylum seekers from those that are not.

    --------------------------

    Merkel was bloody stupid in her initial announcement which will have exacerbated an already serious migration problem across Europe. – With this change of tack, what happens now to migrants that don’t qualify for refugee status? – I guess it’s Austria’s problem now…
    "Change of plan, lads. We're going to Calais..."

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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    surbiton said:

    To those who criticise Merkel: what is a government supposed to do when the population in
    2015 = 82.5m and in 2045 is supposed to be 74.5m ?

    http://populationpyramid.net/germany/2045/

    Worse, with people living longer, the working age population will fall even more drastically.

    Who will pay the taxes ?

    UK, on the other hand goes from 2015 = 63.8 to 2045 = 72.1

    It is this switch which projects that the UK will have a larger GDP than Germany in 2050 !

    Should Merkel just sit there and wring her hands ?

    Pursue a policy of selectively offering residency rights to a group of people from less well off countries?

    Get a democratic mandate from her voters?

    Saying "why don't you all try to swim the Med and I'll take the survivors" is just a little Darwinian for my taste
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Indigo said:

    Possibly you could stop your dancing now and enlighten us as to which loyalist paramilitary supporters met with a Tory politician, without a bunch of diversionary crap about the security services.

    The whole point of Collusion between elements of the State and the Loyalists was that it was all hush-hush, hoosh-hoosh.
    Sunil, elements of the state met with PIRA and other terrorist groups too. Crimes were committed by PIRA even though the the State knew that they were planned. It was all a very messy business. Now I appreciate that all this might have come as something as a shock to you in your reading of Wikkipedia but it is not actually news to those of us richer in years and there are several on this site who have very direct and personal knowledge of what went on.

    So maybe unless you have some actual point to make then now, after three days of essentially hinting and making inane one liners, might be a good time to move on.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    ydoethur said:

    So the inhabitants of NI are not Irish,,thats a new one..

    The Protestants are not - they're descended from mostly Scottish settlers transported across and 'planted' in Ulster (at that time, the most Catholic and intractable area of Ireland) in the seventeenth century.
    My daughter was born in the US to British parents and has spent most of her life here - you're saying she's not American?
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited September 2015
    DT
    This breaking news just in from our chief political correspondent Christopher Hope:

    NEW Former Greek finance minister Yannis Varoufakis says he is appearing with Jeremy Corbyn at a rally in London tomorrow night.
    As for Chuka Umuna, the shadow business secretary, he is still expecting to represent Labour tomorrow when Parliament debates anti-strike laws despite not knowing whether Jeremy Corbyn will keep him in the shadow cabinet:

    Chuka Umunna hasn't resigned - expects to be on frontbench for anti trade union bill tomorrow unless he hears otherwise.
    — Conor Pope (@Conorpope) September 13, 2015
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,105
    A week is a long time in ... Germany's conscience.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,191

    DT

    This breaking news just in from our chief political correspondent Christopher Hope:

    NEW Former Greek finance minister Yannis Varoufakis says he is appearing with Jeremy Corbyn at a rally in London tomorrow night.
    Is HE going to be Shadow Chancellor? :astonished:
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,236
    So who is going to lead the debate for Labour on the Social Security Reform Bill tomorrow? Are we any closer to knowing?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,105
    edited September 2015

    DT

    This breaking news just in from our chief political correspondent Christopher Hope:

    NEW Former Greek finance minister Yannis Varoufakis says he is appearing with Jeremy Corbyn at a rally in London tomorrow night.
    As for Chuka Umuna, the shadow business secretary, he is still expecting to represent Labour tomorrow when Parliament debates anti-strike laws despite not knowing whether Jeremy Corbyn will keep him in the shadow cabinet:

    Chuka Umunna hasn't resigned - expects to be on frontbench for anti trade union bill tomorrow unless he hears otherwise.
    — Conor Pope (@Conorpope) September 13, 2015
    What odds on his being the new Shadow Chancellor?

    EDIT: Damn, beaten by seconds by ydoethur!
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    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    If Germany can throw out Schengen unilaterally with no change in treaties that commit to it, surely we can do the same with free movement?

    Just stop letting in unskilled workers and if anyone complains point to Germany ignoring deficit limits in 2005, ignoring the no bailouts clause in 2010 and ignoring Schengen today.
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    SeanT said:

    Well this was totally unexpected. Not.

    @hughesroland 7m7 minutes ago
    Austrian paper says Germany to reintroduce border control in an hour's time. Sheesh. http://www.krone.at/Welt/Deutschland_korrigiert_Kurs_in_der_Asylpolitik-Kontrollen_an_Grenze-Story-471848

    That's gone against the script. I was in London yesterday and saw some girls on the Tube (they looked about fifteen) who were carrying placards from the 'People's Assembly' saying 'Refugees in. Tories out'. What is 'the People's Assembly' anyway? I take it's some Corbynite agitprop outfit. Whatever, they should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves using the plight of those fleeing genocide for petty localized party-political stunts.
    Hilarious. I take it this will be the 2020 Labour party slogan...

    Its the local 'People's Assembly' that is busy beheading people in Syria/ Iraq.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,191
    edited September 2015
    DavidL said:

    So who is going to lead the debate for Labour on the Social Security Reform Bill tomorrow? Are we any closer to knowing?

    Having heard SO's metaphor, to follow on from the leadership contest, they will hold it as a mass debate.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    surbiton said:

    To those who criticise Merkel: what is a government supposed to do when the population in
    2015 = 82.5m and in 2045 is supposed to be 74.5m ?

    Because its not remotely credible that is the reason for her actions, otherwise why is she is such a hurry to brow-beat other EU countries into taking loads of migrants as well. How does she know they will stay in German and help her population problem anyway, they might all move on to Sweden.

    How many Merkel wants to take is between her and the German electorate, but she has no right what so ever to inflict them on other countries, which given free movement of labour is exactly what she is doing.

    This started of as a combination of war-guilt and virtue-signalling, and is in danger of costing her the election... I won't shed a tear for her departure.

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    Been out most of the day. Any news yet on the shadow cabinet appointments?
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    JEO said:

    If Germany can throw out Schengen unilaterally with no change in treaties that commit to it, surely we can do the same with free movement?

    Just stop letting in unskilled workers and if anyone complains point to Germany ignoring deficit limits in 2005, ignoring the no bailouts clause in 2010 and ignoring Schengen today.

    One of those irregular verbs again:

    "We are good Europeans
    You are breaking agreements"
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    surbiton said:

    Should Merkel just sit there and wring her hands ?

    I don't know what Germany should do, but I know one thing they shouldn't have invited anyone who could make the journey and then a week or so later slam the door shut.

    The instincts of the German's might be good, but the practicalities are a mess.
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    DT

    This breaking news just in from our chief political correspondent Christopher Hope:

    NEW Former Greek finance minister Yannis Varoufakis says he is appearing with Jeremy Corbyn at a rally in London tomorrow night.
    As for Chuka Umuna, the shadow business secretary, he is still expecting to represent Labour tomorrow when Parliament debates anti-strike laws despite not knowing whether Jeremy Corbyn will keep him in the shadow cabinet:

    Chuka Umunna hasn't resigned - expects to be on frontbench for anti trade union bill tomorrow unless he hears otherwise.
    — Conor Pope (@Conorpope) September 13, 2015
    I'm sure an endorsement from the former Greek finance minister will help to boost Labour's image when it comes to fiscal responsibility...

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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Indigo said:

    Possibly you could stop your dancing now and enlighten us as to which loyalist paramilitary supporters met with a Tory politician, without a bunch of diversionary crap about the security services.

    The whole point of Collusion between elements of the State and the Loyalists was that it was all hush-hush, hoosh-hoosh.
    Sunil, elements of the state met with PIRA and other terrorist groups too. Crimes were committed by PIRA even though the the State knew that they were planned. It was all a very messy business. Now I appreciate that all this might have come as something as a shock to you in your reading of Wikkipedia but it is not actually news to those of us richer in years and there are several on this site who have very direct and personal knowledge of what went on.

    So maybe unless you have some actual point to make then now, after three days of essentially hinting and making inane one liners, might be a good time to move on.
    I agree - make him eat the food at that labyrinthine Brighton hospital.
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    Indigo said:

    Possibly you could stop your dancing now and enlighten us as to which loyalist paramilitary supporters met with a Tory politician, without a bunch of diversionary crap about the security services.

    The whole point of Collusion between elements of the State and the Loyalists was that it was all hush-hush, hoosh-hoosh.
    Sunil, elements of the state met with PIRA and other terrorist groups too. Crimes were committed by PIRA even though the the State knew that they were planned. It was all a very messy business. Now I appreciate that all this might have come as something as a shock to you in your reading of Wikkipedia but it is not actually news to those of us richer in years and there are several on this site who have very direct and personal knowledge of what went on.

    So maybe unless you have some actual point to make then now, after three days of essentially hinting and making inane one liners, might be a good time to move on.
    Avast, Mr Llama! I know about that too!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenanne_gang
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_Research_Unit
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddie_Scappaticci

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    SeanT said:

    Well this was totally unexpected. Not.

    @hughesroland 7m7 minutes ago
    Austrian paper says Germany to reintroduce border control in an hour's time. Sheesh. http://www.krone.at/Welt/Deutschland_korrigiert_Kurs_in_der_Asylpolitik-Kontrollen_an_Grenze-Story-471848

    That's gone against the script. I was in London yesterday and saw some girls on the Tube (they looked about fifteen) who were carrying placards from the 'People's Assembly' saying 'Refugees in. Tories out'. What is 'the People's Assembly' anyway? I take it's some Corbynite agitprop outfit. Whatever, they should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves using the plight of those fleeing genocide for petty localized party-political stunts.
    A long-standing Owen Jones outfit, rather than Corbynite specifically. But anti-cuts groups like that were full of latent support that Corbyn's nomination managed to unleash on the Labour ranks.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,236
    Corbyn had discussions with Burnham this afternoon apparently. I still have a suspicion that Burnham will have been saying Shadow Chancellor or I am not playing. If so, it will be an early test of Corbyn's mettle.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,105
    JEO said:

    If Germany can throw out Schengen unilaterally with no change in treaties that commit to it, surely we can do the same with free movement?

    Just stop letting in unskilled workers and if anyone complains point to Germany ignoring deficit limits in 2005, ignoring the no bailouts clause in 2010 and ignoring Schengen today.

    The EU has now lost all pretence of being a coherent unit with laws and rules and that.

    Time to just leave them to it.

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    Tim_B said:

    Indigo said:

    Possibly you could stop your dancing now and enlighten us as to which loyalist paramilitary supporters met with a Tory politician, without a bunch of diversionary crap about the security services.

    The whole point of Collusion between elements of the State and the Loyalists was that it was all hush-hush, hoosh-hoosh.
    Sunil, elements of the state met with PIRA and other terrorist groups too. Crimes were committed by PIRA even though the the State knew that they were planned. It was all a very messy business. Now I appreciate that all this might have come as something as a shock to you in your reading of Wikkipedia but it is not actually news to those of us richer in years and there are several on this site who have very direct and personal knowledge of what went on.

    So maybe unless you have some actual point to make then now, after three days of essentially hinting and making inane one liners, might be a good time to move on.
    I agree - make him eat the food at that labyrinthine Brighton hospital.
    I have been to Brighton, almost exactly four years ago. Did the Volks Electric Railway!
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    Mr. Ears, I do wonder if the People's Assembly are unaware we had an election a short time ago.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited September 2015
    Charles said:

    surbiton said:

    To those who criticise Merkel: what is a government supposed to do when the population in
    2015 = 82.5m and in 2045 is supposed to be 74.5m ?

    http://populationpyramid.net/germany/2045/

    Worse, with people living longer, the working age population will fall even more drastically.

    Who will pay the taxes ?

    UK, on the other hand goes from 2015 = 63.8 to 2045 = 72.1

    It is this switch which projects that the UK will have a larger GDP than Germany in 2050 !

    Should Merkel just sit there and wring her hands ?

    Pursue a policy of selectively offering residency rights to a group of people from less well off countries?

    Get a democratic mandate from her voters?

    Saying "why don't you all try to swim the Med and I'll take the survivors" is just a little Darwinian for my taste
    Merkel is fully aware of the democratic mandate. The German electoral cycle is shorter than ours. She is an astute politician. She has read the tea leaves , I can assure you.

    Down the years, virtually all Syrians, Afghans assimilated in Germany will vote CDU. Like the Ugandan Asians vote Tory [ despite most other EM communities vote Labour ]

    Most of these refugees didn't come from Libya. You know the country we sorted out two years back.
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    1. Corbyn's tribute band look nothing like Abba.
    2. How is it that all female American country singers are virtually pitch perfect?
    3. If Corbyn disappoints his enthusiastic supporters will we get scenes like at the end of "The Man Who Would be King"?
    4. Will Yannis bring his wife to meet the common people?
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    Tim_B said:

    Indigo said:

    Tim_B said:

    Merkels decision re the Migrants is almost on a par with the Labour Party electing Corbyn.. another fucking disaster..now the guests she invited are camping out on an Austrian motorway..poor feckers..

    How is a country policing its borders a disaster? Admittedly it's not good for the "ever closer union" delusion, but in the real world it merely means the government is behaving responsibly.
    Its a disaster because only a week ago she was giving it her "Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.." then when the wretched refuse of your teeming shore arrived she decided it was all a bit of an embarrassment, thus inciting a lot more people to cross the Med, and hence a lot more people to drown in that attempt, and a lot more people to end up sitting on the German border causing severe inconvenience to their neighbours, not that such has caused Germany any great pause before.
    I admit unreservedly that her "if you get here we'll welcome you" comments were unwise and ill thought out, with unfortunate consequences. Schengen's time has come and gone, and it's time it was consigned to the trash can of history. It's ridiculous. Countries need to police their borders and control who they let in. If you don't have borders you don't have countries, but then that's what 'ever closer union' is about.
    Schengen was never a good idea.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,105
    glw said:

    surbiton said:

    Should Merkel just sit there and wring her hands ?

    I don't know what Germany should do, but I know one thing they shouldn't have invited anyone who could make the journey and then a week or so later slam the door shut.

    The instincts of the German's might be good, but the practicalities are a mess.
    The instincts of this Govt. were rather good too: don't get their hopes up in the first place.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,191
    surbiton said:


    The German electoral cycle is shorter than hours.

    I know it was a typo, Surbiton, but it was still brilliant! Gives a whole new meaning to the idea of short-termism...
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Well quite!
    LucyJones said:

    DT

    This breaking news just in from our chief political correspondent Christopher Hope:

    NEW Former Greek finance minister Yannis Varoufakis says he is appearing with Jeremy Corbyn at a rally in London tomorrow night.
    As for Chuka Umuna, the shadow business secretary, he is still expecting to represent Labour tomorrow when Parliament debates anti-strike laws despite not knowing whether Jeremy Corbyn will keep him in the shadow cabinet:

    Chuka Umunna hasn't resigned - expects to be on frontbench for anti trade union bill tomorrow unless he hears otherwise.
    — Conor Pope (@Conorpope) September 13, 2015
    I'm sure an endorsement from the former Greek finance minister will help to boost Labour's image when it comes to fiscal responsibility...



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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Tim_B said:

    Indigo said:

    Possibly you could stop your dancing now and enlighten us as to which loyalist paramilitary supporters met with a Tory politician, without a bunch of diversionary crap about the security services.

    The whole point of Collusion between elements of the State and the Loyalists was that it was all hush-hush, hoosh-hoosh.
    Sunil, elements of the state met with PIRA and other terrorist groups too. Crimes were committed by PIRA even though the the State knew that they were planned. It was all a very messy business. Now I appreciate that all this might have come as something as a shock to you in your reading of Wikkipedia but it is not actually news to those of us richer in years and there are several on this site who have very direct and personal knowledge of what went on.

    So maybe unless you have some actual point to make then now, after three days of essentially hinting and making inane one liners, might be a good time to move on.
    I agree - make him eat the food at that labyrinthine Brighton hospital.
    Now, now, Mr. B. We don't have a constitutional ban on cruel and unusual punishments (through the 1688 Bill of Rights, if I remember, contains something similar) but there are limits in a civilised society.

    I hope your sister-in-law is OK and survived her stay at the RSCH without too much suffering.
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    SUNIL No need to point it out.. I am probably the only PBer who has been chased through some Dublin council house rear gardens in the early hours by a some pistol wielding boyos.. so I am very aware...I also went on patrol with some of the soldiers... but it seemed to me then and still does that the killings were mainly Irish on Irish The Brits were just in the bloody way...

    Just like Iraq.
    And just like Iraq the killings would have been enormously bigger but for us standing in the way.
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    Chuka- really quite interesting that he hasn't resigned. Perhaps he really isn't interested in being leader after all- even in the long term.

    I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the backroom. Corbyn has such little support within the mainstream party that clearly Tom is calling some of the shots. It may be that Corbyn turns into a figurehead pretty quickly- i.e. he has the position, but very little say over policy and appointments.

    DT

    This breaking news just in from our chief political correspondent Christopher Hope:

    NEW Former Greek finance minister Yannis Varoufakis says he is appearing with Jeremy Corbyn at a rally in London tomorrow night.
    As for Chuka Umuna, the shadow business secretary, he is still expecting to represent Labour tomorrow when Parliament debates anti-strike laws despite not knowing whether Jeremy Corbyn will keep him in the shadow cabinet:

    Chuka Umunna hasn't resigned - expects to be on frontbench for anti trade union bill tomorrow unless he hears otherwise.
    — Conor Pope (@Conorpope) September 13, 2015
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I thought they were the placard arm of Unite.

    SeanT said:

    Well this was totally unexpected. Not.

    @hughesroland 7m7 minutes ago
    Austrian paper says Germany to reintroduce border control in an hour's time. Sheesh. http://www.krone.at/Welt/Deutschland_korrigiert_Kurs_in_der_Asylpolitik-Kontrollen_an_Grenze-Story-471848

    That's gone against the script. I was in London yesterday and saw some girls on the Tube (they looked about fifteen) who were carrying placards from the 'People's Assembly' saying 'Refugees in. Tories out'. What is 'the People's Assembly' anyway? I take it's some Corbynite agitprop outfit. Whatever, they should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves using the plight of those fleeing genocide for petty localized party-political stunts.
    A long-standing Owen Jones outfit, rather than Corbynite specifically. But anti-cuts groups like that were full of latent support that Corbyn's nomination managed to unleash on the Labour ranks.
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    Just finished a tv drama where we used two Irish nurses one from Belfast.. born there..as were her parents..The other one was born in Dublin...both considered themselves to be Irish
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    Leader of the Opposition is, since 1937 I believe, an official post. Shadow Cabinet isn't an official body.

    Since JC is leader of the Labour Party it is assumed that he is the LOTO, but is he the leader of the largest grouping in the Commons not supporting the Government? Well that's up to the parliamentary Labour Party, but if he declines Privy Counsellor status, I could see someone else taking the official role.

    Unlikely, of course, but there's not much doubt that a majority of the PLP would favour someone else, even if they might not say so.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    glw said:

    surbiton said:

    Should Merkel just sit there and wring her hands ?

    I don't know what Germany should do, but I know one thing they shouldn't have invited anyone who could make the journey and then a week or so later slam the door shut.

    The instincts of the German's might be good, but the practicalities are a mess.
    The instincts of this Govt. were rather good too: don't get their hopes up in the first place.
    What's stopping Germany copying us but doing it on a larger scale if they want to? Surely that would be more effective and safer than the free-for-all.
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,775

    SeanT said:

    Well this was totally unexpected. Not.

    @hughesroland 7m7 minutes ago
    Austrian paper says Germany to reintroduce border control in an hour's time. Sheesh. http://www.krone.at/Welt/Deutschland_korrigiert_Kurs_in_der_Asylpolitik-Kontrollen_an_Grenze-Story-471848

    That's gone against the script. I was in London yesterday and saw some girls on the Tube (they looked about fifteen) who were carrying placards from the 'People's Assembly' saying 'Refugees in. Tories out'. What is 'the People's Assembly' anyway? I take it's some Corbynite agitprop outfit. Whatever, they should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves using the plight of those fleeing genocide for petty localized party-political stunts.
    A long-standing Owen Jones outfit, rather than Corbynite specifically. But anti-cuts groups like that were full of latent support that Corbyn's nomination managed to unleash on the Labour ranks.
    Do you have a direct link?

    Owen Jones is only 12 years old, so he can't be the mastermind.
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    tyson said:

    Who do we think will be running the Labour party? Corbyn? Watson? What about McDonnell? Could he be the power behind the throne?


    I think Tom Watson without doubt is Labour's new kingmaker. I cannot imagine anyone who has such an influence in a major political party without being leader. His power base is enhanced because he has no aspirations for the main prize.
    Don't be silly.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    agingjb said:

    Leader of the Opposition is, since 1937 I believe, an official post. Shadow Cabinet isn't an official body.

    Since JC is leader of the Labour Party it is assumed that he is the LOTO, but is he the leader of the largest grouping in the Commons not supporting the Government? Well that's up to the parliamentary Labour Party, but if he declines Privy Counsellor status, I could see someone else taking the official role.

    Unlikely, of course, but there's not much doubt that a majority of the PLP would favour someone else, even if they might not say so.

    The Telegraph notes that he will become a privy counsellor:
    Jeremy Corbyn has not decided to turn down a place on the Privy Council, a spokeswoman for the Labour leader has told The Times.

    It could show that he has softened his stance as a staunch republican who once advocated the abolition of the monarchy.
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    Just finished a tv drama where we used two Irish nurses one from Belfast.. born there..as were her parents..The other one was born in Dublin...both considered themselves to be Irish

    Richard, The one from from Belfast - was she Catholic? It might explain things.
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    Been out most of the day. Any news yet on the shadow cabinet appointments?

    This might help.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2015/09/whos-jeremy-corbyns-shadow-cabinet
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    He signed the Privy papers earlier today.
    agingjb said:

    Leader of the Opposition is, since 1937 I believe, an official post. Shadow Cabinet isn't an official body.

    Since JC is leader of the Labour Party it is assumed that he is the LOTO, but is he the leader of the largest grouping in the Commons not supporting the Government? Well that's up to the parliamentary Labour Party, but if he declines Privy Counsellor status, I could see someone else taking the official role.

    Unlikely, of course, but there's not much doubt that a majority of the PLP would favour someone else, even if they might not say so.

  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    surbiton said:

    Charles said:

    surbiton said:

    To those who criticise Merkel: what is a government supposed to do when the population in
    2015 = 82.5m and in 2045 is supposed to be 74.5m ?

    http://populationpyramid.net/germany/2045/

    Worse, with people living longer, the working age population will fall even more drastically.

    Who will pay the taxes ?

    UK, on the other hand goes from 2015 = 63.8 to 2045 = 72.1

    It is this switch which projects that the UK will have a larger GDP than Germany in 2050 !

    Should Merkel just sit there and wring her hands ?

    Pursue a policy of selectively offering residency rights to a group of people from less well off countries?

    Get a democratic mandate from her voters?

    Saying "why don't you all try to swim the Med and I'll take the survivors" is just a little Darwinian for my taste
    Merkel is fully aware of the democratic mandate. The German electoral cycle is shorter than ours. She is an astute politician. She has read the tea leaves , I can assure you.

    Down the years, virtually all Syrians, Afghans assimilated in Germany will vote CDU. Like the Ugandan Asians vote Tory [ despite most other EM communities vote Labour ]

    Most of these refugees didn't come from Libya. You know the country we sorted out two years back.
    None of those points bear any relevance to my comments.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    DavidL said:

    Corbyn had discussions with Burnham this afternoon apparently. I still have a suspicion that Burnham will have been saying Shadow Chancellor or I am not playing. If so, it will be an early test of Corbyn's mettle.

    I don't think AB will get the Shadow Chancellor's job. I could be wrong.

    John McDonnell or Angela Eagle probably. I will be surprised if it is not JM. What is the point of receiving 60% of the votes, then worrying about making an appointment to "please the City".

    JC probably thinks the City [ particularly , the Banks ] is the root of the problems facing this country.

    Burnham will probably get Foreign Affairs or Home. Hilary Benn has played his cards well by keeping his mouth shut. Also, supporting the Palestinian cause will not be a big problem for him. It might have been for one or two like Rachel Reeves, for instance.
  • Options
    MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited September 2015

    I thought they were the placard arm of Unite.

    SeanT said:

    Well this was totally unexpected. Not.

    @hughesroland 7m7 minutes ago
    Austrian paper says Germany to reintroduce border control in an hour's time. Sheesh. http://www.krone.at/Welt/Deutschland_korrigiert_Kurs_in_der_Asylpolitik-Kontrollen_an_Grenze-Story-471848

    That's gone against the script. I was in London yesterday and saw some girls on the Tube (they looked about fifteen) who were carrying placards from the 'People's Assembly' saying 'Refugees in. Tories out'. What is 'the People's Assembly' anyway? I take it's some Corbynite agitprop outfit. Whatever, they should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves using the plight of those fleeing genocide for petty localized party-political stunts.
    A long-standing Owen Jones outfit, rather than Corbynite specifically. But anti-cuts groups like that were full of latent support that Corbyn's nomination managed to unleash on the Labour ranks.
    No there's more to it than that.

    On top of UNITE there's UNISON, NUT, NUJ, PCS, RMT... and the activist list is a roll call of the Labour Left/Left-Green/Trotskyists/Respect/various other socialist groups.

    There are organisers like Clare Solomon (eternal student demonstrator, remember her?), John Rees (Stop The War, ex-SWP, Respect), Romayne Phoenix (Left Green).
  • Options
    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662
    agingjb said:

    Leader of the Opposition is, since 1937 I believe, an official post. Shadow Cabinet isn't an official body.

    Since JC is leader of the Labour Party it is assumed that he is the LOTO, but is he the leader of the largest grouping in the Commons not supporting the Government? Well that's up to the parliamentary Labour Party, but if he declines Privy Counsellor status, I could see someone else taking the official role.

    Unlikely, of course, but there's not much doubt that a majority of the PLP would favour someone else, even if they might not say so.

    I can't see Alec Salmond sitting on his hands in such circumstances. 'In the absence of a united Labour party, we are clearly the largest grouping not supporting the Government...'
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,269
    edited September 2015

    He signed the Privy papers earlier today.

    agingjb said:

    Leader of the Opposition is, since 1937 I believe, an official post. Shadow Cabinet isn't an official body.

    Since JC is leader of the Labour Party it is assumed that he is the LOTO, but is he the leader of the largest grouping in the Commons not supporting the Government? Well that's up to the parliamentary Labour Party, but if he declines Privy Counsellor status, I could see someone else taking the official role.

    Unlikely, of course, but there's not much doubt that a majority of the PLP would favour someone else, even if they might not say so.

    Um, isn't a "Privy" a kind of, er, loo?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,871
    MTimT said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT

    felix said:


    I taught nothing - twas how the students and others used it. BTW - thisis not the USA.

    Hah - I'm sure you taught them something.

    These tamed down equivalents are tricky though. For a long time I imagined that 'Berk' was a pretty tame insult, much the same as 'Chump' say. It turns out of course that it isn't.

    As I've got older though I realise that 'strong' language gets you nowhere. 'Fool' is quite sufficient to condemn someone really. I think I'll have really grown up properly when I feel myself to be safe from that epithet. I suspect that will never happen.

    The 'strength' of the language lies in the intent behind it, not the words. "Fool" spat out with contempt is every bit as strong as any swear word, whereas 'f**king' used without emotion as a space filler or emphatic is not a swear word at all, just entirely unnecessary.
    cretinous halfwit sounds much better
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,775
    DavidL said:

    Corbyn had discussions with Burnham this afternoon apparently. I still have a suspicion that Burnham will have been saying Shadow Chancellor or I am not playing. If so, it will be an early test of Corbyn's mettle.

    Shadow Home Sec. I know Burnham is stupid, but he's not that stupid.

    Both sides of Labour are hoping madly that he'll get the gig. The defectors don't want him, and the Corbynites think he'll help.

    Burnham is the deadest of political corpses though.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Oh yes, wasn't she SAOS?

    I thought they were the placard arm of Unite.

    SeanT said:

    Well this was totally unexpected. Not.

    @hughesroland 7m7 minutes ago
    Austrian paper says Germany to reintroduce border control in an hour's time. Sheesh. http://www.krone.at/Welt/Deutschland_korrigiert_Kurs_in_der_Asylpolitik-Kontrollen_an_Grenze-Story-471848

    That's gone against the script. I was in London yesterday and saw some girls on the Tube (they looked about fifteen) who were carrying placards from the 'People's Assembly' saying 'Refugees in. Tories out'. What is 'the People's Assembly' anyway? I take it's some Corbynite agitprop outfit. Whatever, they should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves using the plight of those fleeing genocide for petty localized party-political stunts.
    A long-standing Owen Jones outfit, rather than Corbynite specifically. But anti-cuts groups like that were full of latent support that Corbyn's nomination managed to unleash on the Labour ranks.
    No there's more to it than that.

    On top of UNITE there's UNISON, NUT, NUJ, PCS, RMT... and the activist list is a roll call of the Labour Left/Left-Green/Trotskyists/Respect/various other socialist groups.

    There are organisers like Clare Solomon (eternal student demonstrator, remember her?)
  • Options
    Sorry, misclicked "post" too early, actually filled in a bit now. And yes, SOAS. She had an "interesting" back-story.

    http://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2011/mar/19/clare-solomon-interview

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8164855/The-student-firebrand-behind-wave-of-protests.html

    Oh yes, wasn't she SAOS?

    I thought they were the placard arm of Unite.

    SeanT said:

    Well this was totally unexpected. Not.

    @hughesroland 7m7 minutes ago
    Austrian paper says Germany to reintroduce border control in an hour's time. Sheesh. http://www.krone.at/Welt/Deutschland_korrigiert_Kurs_in_der_Asylpolitik-Kontrollen_an_Grenze-Story-471848

    That's gone against the script. I was in London yesterday and saw some girls on the Tube (they looked about fifteen) who were carrying placards from the 'People's Assembly' saying 'Refugees in. Tories out'. What is 'the People's Assembly' anyway? I take it's some Corbynite agitprop outfit. Whatever, they should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves using the plight of those fleeing genocide for petty localized party-political stunts.
    A long-standing Owen Jones outfit, rather than Corbynite specifically. But anti-cuts groups like that were full of latent support that Corbyn's nomination managed to unleash on the Labour ranks.
    No there's more to it than that.

    On top of UNITE there's UNISON, NUT, NUJ, PCS, RMT... and the activist list is a roll call of the Labour Left/Left-Green/Trotskyists/Respect/various other socialist groups.

    There are organisers like Clare Solomon (eternal student demonstrator, remember her?)
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    If you think about it, Corbyn is in a really weak position. OK he got a mandate, but now he needs to do business with his colleagues who are overwhelmingly oppositional. Corbyn can't just allocate jobs to his cronies, or to opportunistic MP's- well he could, but I think that would go down like a cup of cold sick. He needs a fixer to manage the party that has credibility with the MP's.

    tyson said:

    Who do we think will be running the Labour party? Corbyn? Watson? What about McDonnell? Could he be the power behind the throne?


    I think Tom Watson without doubt is Labour's new kingmaker. I cannot imagine anyone who has such an influence in a major political party without being leader. His power base is enhanced because he has no aspirations for the main prize.
    Don't be silly.
  • Options
    TudorRose said:

    agingjb said:

    Leader of the Opposition is, since 1937 I believe, an official post. Shadow Cabinet isn't an official body.

    Since JC is leader of the Labour Party it is assumed that he is the LOTO, but is he the leader of the largest grouping in the Commons not supporting the Government? Well that's up to the parliamentary Labour Party, but if he declines Privy Counsellor status, I could see someone else taking the official role.

    Unlikely, of course, but there's not much doubt that a majority of the PLP would favour someone else, even if they might not say so.

    I can't see Alec Salmond sitting on his hands in such circumstances. 'In the absence of a united Labour party, we are clearly the largest grouping not supporting the Government...'
    Tory Eurosceptics? (only kidding!)
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,105
    malcolmg said:

    MTimT said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT

    felix said:


    I taught nothing - twas how the students and others used it. BTW - thisis not the USA.

    Hah - I'm sure you taught them something.

    These tamed down equivalents are tricky though. For a long time I imagined that 'Berk' was a pretty tame insult, much the same as 'Chump' say. It turns out of course that it isn't.

    As I've got older though I realise that 'strong' language gets you nowhere. 'Fool' is quite sufficient to condemn someone really. I think I'll have really grown up properly when I feel myself to be safe from that epithet. I suspect that will never happen.

    The 'strength' of the language lies in the intent behind it, not the words. "Fool" spat out with contempt is every bit as strong as any swear word, whereas 'f**king' used without emotion as a space filler or emphatic is not a swear word at all, just entirely unnecessary.
    cretinous halfwit sounds much better
    Nothing cuts to the core though like being called a "Turnip".....

  • Options
    Sunil Neither one professed a religion..the one from Dublin is getting married next month and her local church has refused to marry her.. she did not give the reason.. she is going to a registry office and then another ceremony in Dublin..
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,105


    He signed the Privy papers earlier today.

    agingjb said:

    Leader of the Opposition is, since 1937 I believe, an official post. Shadow Cabinet isn't an official body.

    Since JC is leader of the Labour Party it is assumed that he is the LOTO, but is he the leader of the largest grouping in the Commons not supporting the Government? Well that's up to the parliamentary Labour Party, but if he declines Privy Counsellor status, I could see someone else taking the official role.

    Unlikely, of course, but there's not much doubt that a majority of the PLP would favour someone else, even if they might not say so.

    Um, isn't a "Privy" a kind of, er, loo?
    His supporters will be mortified if he didn't sign his acceptance on a bog roll....
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    DavidL said:

    Corbyn had discussions with Burnham this afternoon apparently. I still have a suspicion that Burnham will have been saying Shadow Chancellor or I am not playing. If so, it will be an early test of Corbyn's mettle.

    Hmm real world decisions, with consequences. He's spent a lifetime without that politically, having spent a huge amount of time for decades protesting from the sidelines.
  • Options
    LucyJones said:

    Times reporting 10 000 migrants turned up in Munich yesterday and 180 000 have entered Hungary illegally so far this year.

    It's a complete mess. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article4555482.ece

    And the tens of thousands en route?

    SeanT said:

    Well this was totally unexpected. Not.

    @hughesroland 7m7 minutes ago
    Austrian paper says Germany to reintroduce border control in an hour's time. Sheesh. http://www.krone.at/Welt/Deutschland_korrigiert_Kurs_in_der_Asylpolitik-Kontrollen_an_Grenze-Story-471848

    Basically the article translates as: Germany will introduce border controls between itself and Austria as from 5pm this afternoon with the purpose of ascertaining genuine asylum seekers from those that are not.

    --------------------------

    Merkel was bloody stupid in her initial announcement which will have exacerbated an already serious migration problem across Europe. – With this change of tack, what happens now to migrants that don’t qualify for refugee status? – I guess it’s Austria’s problem now…
    Must say, I find myself wondering for how long the "asylum seekers" will be content to lodge in sports centres, disused airport terminals and so on.
    And clearly Cameron's policy of supporting refugees close to their borders is now revealed as far and away the most humane.
    Its sad that bigoted socialist crypto communist nutjobs have to use these poor people and theor plight as a political weapon.#
    In other words Corbyn has chosen to weaponise refugees.
  • Options
    As I pointed out on here a few days ago and was shouted down by the usual suspects as being a heartless tory..Merkel has made a massively bad decision..one of the worst by a senior politician for many decades and it will reverberate around Europe for a very long time, plus there are still a lot more people who will die in the med because of it.
  • Options

    Sunil Neither one professed a religion..the one from Dublin is getting married next month and her local church has refused to marry her.. she did not give the reason.. she is going to a registry office and then another ceremony in Dublin..

    Richard D,

    Catholics now outnumber Protestants in Belfast (though not an overall majority). There's a map here wot shows preferred "national description" across the Six Counties:

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Most_common_nationality_2011.png

    Red = British
    Blue = "NI"
    Green = Irish

  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    Really it's a total Scheisspolitik

    Germany introduces border controls with Austria to stop more refugees arriving, so why the hell did they invite so many ?

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/fluechtlingskrise/bundesregierung-fuehrt-wieder-grenzkontrollen-ein-13800905.html
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited September 2015
    We need some voting intention opinion polls as soon as possible. If Labour are losing slightly more support than they're gaining with Corbyn they could be on about 27%.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,871

    SUNIL No need to point it out.. I am probably the only PBer who has been chased through some Dublin council house rear gardens in the early hours by a some pistol wielding boyos.. so I am very aware...I also went on patrol with some of the soldiers... but it seemed to me then and still does that the killings were mainly Irish on Irish The Brits were just in the bloody way...

    Just like Iraq.
    And just like Iraq the killings would have been enormously bigger but for us standing in the way.
    LOL
  • Options
    flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    edited September 2015
    Indigo said:

    Sunil of course.. so the Brits must have done then.. stands to reason..

    You really don't like me pointing out the outrages during the Troubles were NOT as one-sided as you think/believe.
    No we just don't care. This is politicalbetting.com not irishtroubles.com and yet you continue to divert discussion of Mr Corbyn's "interesting" Irish friends into a load of whataboutery on whose fault the troubles were.

    Yes, lots of people did lots of naughty things during the Troubles, the political wing of one side met with a Labour politician, now the leader of his party just after their paramilitary colleagues blew up the Grand Hotel in Brighton. Possibly you could stop your dancing now and enlighten us as to which loyalist paramilitary supporters met with a Tory politician, without a bunch of diversionary crap about the security services.
    Well said. The guy is a total pathetic dork. We know the troubles were not one sided.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,871

    malcolmg said:

    MTimT said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT

    felix said:


    I taught nothing - twas how the students and others used it. BTW - thisis not the USA.

    Hah - I'm sure you taught them something.

    These tamed down equivalents are tricky though. For a long time I imagined that 'Berk' was a pretty tame insult, much the same as 'Chump' say. It turns out of course that it isn't.

    As I've got older though I realise that 'strong' language gets you nowhere. 'Fool' is quite sufficient to condemn someone really. I think I'll have really grown up properly when I feel myself to be safe from that epithet. I suspect that will never happen.

    The 'strength' of the language lies in the intent behind it, not the words. "Fool" spat out with contempt is every bit as strong as any swear word, whereas 'f**king' used without emotion as a space filler or emphatic is not a swear word at all, just entirely unnecessary.
    cretinous halfwit sounds much better
    Nothing cuts to the core though like being called a "Turnip".....

    True it is special
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited September 2015
    Surbiton: maybe Merkel should be trying to encourage German families to have more children. In France they have generous tax breaks for large families and the policy seems to be working there.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    tyson said:

    If you think about it, Corbyn is in a really weak position. OK he got a mandate, but now he needs to do business with his colleagues who are overwhelmingly oppositional. Corbyn can't just allocate jobs to his cronies, or to opportunistic MP's- well he could, but I think that would go down like a cup of cold sick. He needs a fixer to manage the party that has credibility with the MP's.

    tyson said:

    Who do we think will be running the Labour party? Corbyn? Watson? What about McDonnell? Could he be the power behind the throne?


    I think Tom Watson without doubt is Labour's new kingmaker. I cannot imagine anyone who has such an influence in a major political party without being leader. His power base is enhanced because he has no aspirations for the main prize.
    Don't be silly.
    He easily could. I think you are thinking from a point of view of acceptance. He does not give a toss ! His point of view will be broadly speaking the Labour Opposition will have to project what the membership of the party wishes. Isn't that what democracy is about ?
  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    He signed the Privy papers earlier today.

    And so it begins...

    Maybe he'll end up as Prime Minister after all!

  • Options
    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662

    Really it's a total Scheisspolitik

    Germany introduces border controls with Austria to stop more refugees arriving, so why the hell did they invite so many ?

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/fluechtlingskrise/bundesregierung-fuehrt-wieder-grenzkontrollen-ein-13800905.html

    They jumped the gun; it's a regular problem with German as a language where they put the verb at the end; "You are all into Germany w̶e̶l̶c̶o̶m̶e̶ forbidden"
  • Options
    C4 News on Thursday was reporting from a Corbyn rally and said that Corbyn wanted John McDonnell but Len Mccluskey was heard whispering in his ear that he must offer it to Burnham. that
    DavidL said:

    Corbyn had discussions with Burnham this afternoon apparently. I still have a suspicion that Burnham will have been saying Shadow Chancellor or I am not playing. If so, it will be an early test of Corbyn's mettle.

  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    surbiton said:

    DavidL said:

    Corbyn had discussions with Burnham this afternoon apparently. I still have a suspicion that Burnham will have been saying Shadow Chancellor or I am not playing. If so, it will be an early test of Corbyn's mettle.

    I don't think AB will get the Shadow Chancellor's job. I could be wrong.

    John McDonnell or Angela Eagle probably. I will be surprised if it is not JM. What is the point of receiving 60% of the votes, then worrying about making an appointment to "please the City".

    JC probably thinks the City [ particularly , the Banks ] is the root of the problems facing this country.

    Burnham will probably get Foreign Affairs or Home. Hilary Benn has played his cards well by keeping his mouth shut. Also, supporting the Palestinian cause will not be a big problem for him. It might have been for one or two like Rachel Reeves, for instance.
    Bit of a problem with taking on the City. It's this little thing called Magna Carta ;)
  • Options
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    MTimT said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT

    felix said:


    I taught nothing - twas how the students and others used it. BTW - thisis not the USA.

    Hah - I'm sure you taught them something.

    These tamed down equivalents are tricky though. For a long time I imagined that 'Berk' was a pretty tame insult, much the same as 'Chump' say. It turns out of course that it isn't.

    As I've got older though I realise that 'strong' language gets you nowhere. 'Fool' is quite sufficient to condemn someone really. I think I'll have really grown up properly when I feel myself to be safe from that epithet. I suspect that will never happen.

    The 'strength' of the language lies in the intent behind it, not the words. "Fool" spat out with contempt is every bit as strong as any swear word, whereas 'f**king' used without emotion as a space filler or emphatic is not a swear word at all, just entirely unnecessary.
    cretinous halfwit sounds much better
    Nothing cuts to the core though like being called a "Turnip".....

    True it is special
    Have you ever called a Swede a "Turnip"?
  • Options

    Indigo said:

    Sunil of course.. so the Brits must have done then.. stands to reason..

    You really don't like me pointing out the outrages during the Troubles were NOT as one-sided as you think/believe.
    No we just don't care. This is politicalbetting.com not irishtroubles.com and yet you continue to divert discussion of Mr Corbyn's "interesting" Irish friends into a load of whataboutery on whose fault the troubles were.

    Yes, lots of people did lots of naughty things during the Troubles, the political wing of one side met with a Labour politician, now the leader of his party just after their paramilitary colleagues blew up the Grand Hotel in Brighton. Possibly you could stop your dancing now and enlighten us as to which loyalist paramilitary supporters met with a Tory politician, without a bunch of diversionary crap about the security services.
    Well said. The guy is a total pathetic dork. We know the troubles were not one sided.
    Shucks! I love you too, Mr Flightpath :lol:
  • Options
    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662
    TudorRose said:

    Really it's a total Scheisspolitik

    Germany introduces border controls with Austria to stop more refugees arriving, so why the hell did they invite so many ?

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/fluechtlingskrise/bundesregierung-fuehrt-wieder-grenzkontrollen-ein-13800905.html

    They jumped the gun; it's a regular problem with German as a language where they put the verb at the end; "You are all into Germany w̶e̶l̶c̶o̶m̶e̶ forbidden"
    Which, of course, only works if you put the 'are' at the end.. apologies!
  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    BBC saying that strong indications that somebody called Chi Onwurah (who she?) is going to replace Chuka, and lead on the TU bill tomorrow?
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited September 2015
    Chi Onwurah is a British Labour Party politician, who was elected at the 2010 general election as the Member of Parliament for Newcastle upon Tyne Central, replacing the previous Labour MP Jim Cousins, who decided to step down and left the seat

    I've never heard of either.
    alex. said:

    BBC saying that strong indications that somebody called Chi Onwurah (who she?) is going to replace Chuka, and lead on the TU bill tomorrow?

  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    Indigo said:

    Possibly you could stop your dancing now and enlighten us as to which loyalist paramilitary supporters met with a Tory politician, without a bunch of diversionary crap about the security services.

    The whole point of Collusion between elements of the State and the Loyalists was that it was all hush-hush, hoosh-hoosh.
    Sunil, elements of the state met with PIRA and other terrorist groups too. Crimes were committed by PIRA even though the the State knew that they were planned. It was all a very messy business. Now I appreciate that all this might have come as something as a shock to you in your reading of Wikkipedia but it is not actually news to those of us richer in years and there are several on this site who have very direct and personal knowledge of what went on.

    So maybe unless you have some actual point to make then now, after three days of essentially hinting and making inane one liners, might be a good time to move on.
    I agree - make him eat the food at that labyrinthine Brighton hospital.
    Now, now, Mr. B. We don't have a constitutional ban on cruel and unusual punishments (through the 1688 Bill of Rights, if I remember, contains something similar) but there are limits in a civilised society.

    I hope your sister-in-law is OK and survived her stay at the RSCH without too much suffering.
    Thanks for asking - she is fine thanks. She had surgery on the 9th. They insisted she stay a night in hospital, which seems utterly insane and financially irresponsible for elbow surgery, but there it is. She's doing fine.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,105
    alex. said:

    BBC saying that strong indications that somebody called Chi Onwurah (who she?) is going to replace Chuka, and lead on the TU bill tomorrow?

    Labour MP for Newcastle Central

    http://chionwurahmp.com/
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited September 2015
    This really is going to be a Shad Cabinet of all the talentless at this rate.

    Pretty website

    alex. said:

    BBC saying that strong indications that somebody called Chi Onwurah (who she?) is going to replace Chuka, and lead on the TU bill tomorrow?

    Labour MP for Newcastle Central

    http://chionwurahmp.com/
  • Options
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    MTimT said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT

    felix said:


    I taught nothing - twas how the students and others used it. BTW - thisis not the USA.

    Hah - I'm sure you taught them something.

    These tamed down equivalents are tricky though. For a long time I imagined that 'Berk' was a pretty tame insult, much the same as 'Chump' say. It turns out of course that it isn't.

    As I've got older though I realise that 'strong' language gets you nowhere. 'Fool' is quite sufficient to condemn someone really. I think I'll have really grown up properly when I feel myself to be safe from that epithet. I suspect that will never happen.

    The 'strength' of the language lies in the intent behind it, not the words. "Fool" spat out with contempt is every bit as strong as any swear word, whereas 'f**king' used without emotion as a space filler or emphatic is not a swear word at all, just entirely unnecessary.
    cretinous halfwit sounds much better
    Nothing cuts to the core though like being called a "Turnip".....

    True it is special
    'gammon-faced cockvalve' seems to be popular on Scottish twitter today.
  • Options
    http://www.economicsuk.com/blog/002120.html#more
    THE GREAT ESCAPE: HOW SCOTLAND DODGED A BULLET
    ''The Scots were promised a future of high oil prices and rising production. The reality has been plunging prices and a crisis in the North Sea. The Scots were told that Westminster was keeping secret from them the true picture of future North Sea riches. If anything was being kept secret, it was how bad it would be.''
    ''In June the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) issued its latest long-term “fiscal sustainability” projections. As far as North Sea tax revenues are concerned, their conclusion was that it would be wise to plan for nothing from 2020 onwards. Total North Sea revenues will be just £2.1bn in the 20 years from 2020, it said, equivalent to a single year’s revenue in a bad year now.''

    Ouch.
  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    This really is going to be a Shad Cabinet of all the talentless at this rate.

    alex. said:

    BBC saying that strong indications that somebody called Chi Onwurah (who she?) is going to replace Chuka, and lead on the TU bill tomorrow?

    Labour MP for Newcastle Central

    http://chionwurahmp.com/
    Bit harsh - unknown, but no idea about her talent. A female engineer, so a bit of a novelty.

    Apparently a Burnham supporter who nominated Corbyn though...
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,191
    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Indigo said:

    Possibly you could stop your dancing now and enlighten us as to which loyalist paramilitary supporters met with a Tory politician, without a bunch of diversionary crap about the security services.

    The whole point of Collusion between elements of the State and the Loyalists was that it was all hush-hush, hoosh-hoosh.
    Sunil, elements of the state met with PIRA and other terrorist groups too. Crimes were committed by PIRA even though the the State knew that they were planned. It was all a very messy business. Now I appreciate that all this might have come as something as a shock to you in your reading of Wikkipedia but it is not actually news to those of us richer in years and there are several on this site who have very direct and personal knowledge of what went on.

    So maybe unless you have some actual point to make then now, after three days of essentially hinting and making inane one liners, might be a good time to move on.
    I agree - make him eat the food at that labyrinthine Brighton hospital.
    Now, now, Mr. B. We don't have a constitutional ban on cruel and unusual punishments (through the 1688 Bill of Rights, if I remember, contains something similar) but there are limits in a civilised society.

    I hope your sister-in-law is OK and survived her stay at the RSCH without too much suffering.
    Thanks for asking - she is fine thanks. She had surgery on the 9th. They insisted she stay a night in hospital, which seems utterly insane and financially irresponsible for elbow surgery, but there it is. She's doing fine.
    I don't know so much. Supposing the scar had leaked, or there had been a late reaction to the anaesthetic? I would have thought after any surgery involving GA (assuming this did) it's sensible to have a few hours observation, anyway.

    Hope you are all bearing up.
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    Mr. B, glad she's doing well.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,105
    TW1R64 said:

    C4 News on Thursday was reporting from a Corbyn rally and said that Corbyn wanted John McDonnell but Len Mccluskey was heard whispering in his ear that he must offer it to Burnham. that

    DavidL said:

    Corbyn had discussions with Burnham this afternoon apparently. I still have a suspicion that Burnham will have been saying Shadow Chancellor or I am not playing. If so, it will be an early test of Corbyn's mettle.

    Osborne versus twice-humiliated Mascara Man.

    I think Westminster just reintroduced bear-baiting through the back door...
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    SeanT said:

    German Statue of Liberty.

    Give Me Your Tired, Your Poor, Your Huddled Masses, For About A Week, OK That's Quite Enough Huddled Masses Now.

    The anger of those denied entry because they were a few days late is going to be unbridled.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,916
    edited September 2015
    One of my mates did an accumulator on all yesterdays Premier League matches to be drawn.. I raised my eyes at his amateurish betting behaviour...

    But check out todays Serie A scores... Four games gone, all 2-2!

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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Imams, priests, rabbis and other religious figures will have to enrol in a “national register of faith leaders” and be subject to government-specified training and security checks in the Home Office’s latest action on extremism.

    The highly controversial proposal appears in a leaked draft of the Government’s new counter-extremism strategy, seen by The Telegraph, which goes substantially further than previous versions of the document.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11860993/Imams-will-have-to-register-and-face-security-vetting-under-Home-Office-plans.html
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,871

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    MTimT said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT

    felix said:


    I taught nothing - twas how the students and others used it. BTW - thisis not the USA.

    Hah - I'm sure you taught them something.

    These tamed down equivalents are tricky though. For a long time I imagined that 'Berk' was a pretty tame insult, much the same as 'Chump' say. It turns out of course that it isn't.

    As I've got older though I realise that 'strong' language gets you nowhere. 'Fool' is quite sufficient to condemn someone really. I think I'll have really grown up properly when I feel myself to be safe from that epithet. I suspect that will never happen.

    The 'strength' of the language lies in the intent behind it, not the words. "Fool" spat out with contempt is every bit as strong as any swear word, whereas 'f**king' used without emotion as a space filler or emphatic is not a swear word at all, just entirely unnecessary.
    cretinous halfwit sounds much better
    Nothing cuts to the core though like being called a "Turnip".....

    True it is special
    Have you ever called a Swede a "Turnip"?
    A swede is small and wrong colour, too insignificant to match the mighty turnip
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    SeanT said:

    German Statue of Liberty.

    Give Me Your Tired, Your Poor, Your Huddled Masses, For About A Week, OK That's Quite Enough Huddled Masses Now.

    We'll take the tired, the poor, the huddled masses, the straight, but if you're yearning to be free, sod off.
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    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307

    Sunil Neither one professed a religion..the one from Dublin is getting married next month and her local church has refused to marry her.. she did not give the reason.. she is going to a registry office and then another ceremony in Dublin..

    Richard D,

    Catholics now outnumber Protestants in Belfast (though not an overall majority). There's a map here wot shows preferred "national description" across the Six Counties:

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Most_common_nationality_2011.png

    Red = British
    Blue = "NI"
    Green = Irish


    Your interpretative understanding of Northern Ireland politics appears to be next to zero.

    Reality is religious headcount doesn't for not very much. Barely 60% of Catholics see themselves as Irish.

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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,191

    TW1R64 said:

    C4 News on Thursday was reporting from a Corbyn rally and said that Corbyn wanted John McDonnell but Len Mccluskey was heard whispering in his ear that he must offer it to Burnham. that

    DavidL said:

    Corbyn had discussions with Burnham this afternoon apparently. I still have a suspicion that Burnham will have been saying Shadow Chancellor or I am not playing. If so, it will be an early test of Corbyn's mettle.

    Osborne versus twice-humiliated Mascara Man.

    I think Westminster just reintroduced bear-baiting through the back door...
    There is a really unkind joke could be made there about Tom Watson.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,501

    This really is going to be a Shad Cabinet of all the talentless at this rate.

    Pretty website

    alex. said:

    BBC saying that strong indications that somebody called Chi Onwurah (who she?) is going to replace Chuka, and lead on the TU bill tomorrow?

    Labour MP for Newcastle Central

    http://chionwurahmp.com/
    She's somebody who I didn't know how to get onto Betfair :-).

    Somebody tipped her for something a couple of days ago iirc.
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    http://www.economicsuk.com/blog/002120.html#more
    THE GREAT ESCAPE: HOW SCOTLAND DODGED A BULLET
    ''The Scots were promised a future of high oil prices and rising production. The reality has been plunging prices and a crisis in the North Sea. The Scots were told that Westminster was keeping secret from them the true picture of future North Sea riches. If anything was being kept secret, it was how bad it would be.''
    ''In June the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) issued its latest long-term “fiscal sustainability” projections. As far as North Sea tax revenues are concerned, their conclusion was that it would be wise to plan for nothing from 2020 onwards. Total North Sea revenues will be just £2.1bn in the 20 years from 2020, it said, equivalent to a single year’s revenue in a bad year now.''

    Ouch.

    "McCooler - 20 days!"
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,871

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    MTimT said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT

    felix said:


    I taught nothing - twas how the students and others used it. BTW - thisis not the USA.

    Hah - I'm sure you taught them something.

    These tamed down equivalents are tricky though. For a long time I imagined that 'Berk' was a pretty tame insult, much the same as 'Chump' say. It turns out of course that it isn't.

    As I've got older though I realise that 'strong' language gets you nowhere. 'Fool' is quite sufficient to condemn someone really. I think I'll have really grown up properly when I feel myself to be safe from that epithet. I suspect that will never happen.

    The 'strength' of the language lies in the intent behind it, not the words. "Fool" spat out with contempt is every bit as strong as any swear word, whereas 'f**king' used without emotion as a space filler or emphatic is not a swear word at all, just entirely unnecessary.
    cretinous halfwit sounds much better
    Nothing cuts to the core though like being called a "Turnip".....

    True it is special
    'gammon-faced cockvalve' seems to be popular on Scottish twitter today.
    Yes poor old Cameron getting it big. Bit too rude for PB.com though, some of the frothers would have the vapours.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,191
    MattW said:

    This really is going to be a Shad Cabinet of all the talentless at this rate.

    Pretty website

    alex. said:

    BBC saying that strong indications that somebody called Chi Onwurah (who she?) is going to replace Chuka, and lead on the TU bill tomorrow?

    Labour MP for Newcastle Central

    http://chionwurahmp.com/
    She's somebody who I didn't know how to get onto Betfair :-).

    Somebody tipped her for something a couple of days ago iirc.
    It's starting to look like the Bonar Law cabinet of 1923, or even the 'Who? Who?' ministry led by Derby in 1852.
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    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    TudorRose said:

    Really it's a total Scheisspolitik

    Germany introduces border controls with Austria to stop more refugees arriving, so why the hell did they invite so many ?

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/fluechtlingskrise/bundesregierung-fuehrt-wieder-grenzkontrollen-ein-13800905.html

    They jumped the gun; it's a regular problem with German as a language where they put the verb at the end; "You are all into Germany w̶e̶l̶c̶o̶m̶e̶ forbidden"
    Greece, Italy and Hungary should be furious. The numbers of migrants they have to deal with is now far, far bigger because Germany invited them all in and then closed the doors while many were still in transit. The ineptness is making Germany's response to the Eurozone crisis look like a paragon of competence.
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