Saw two bits of Corbyn coverage today. BBC lead on his speech to the unions. Sky had three negative snippets (tie at half mast, not singing the national anthem and [this is more contentious] allegedly taking food meant for veterans [though he may have been offered it]), as well as some speech coverage.
You are right to say 'allegedly'. This is the allegation “Jeremy and Watson went straight over, they went rushing towards where the free packs were, and dived in. He was obviously rushing off to the TUC and he grabbed two of these bags. They were for the veterans and the volunteers in the red jackets. Jeremy was looking inside them and picking up the sandwiches he wanted. Tom Watson only took one and so did everybody, all the veterans, but Jeremy took two, which I thought was really off.” (made by photographer Steve Back)
I make no comment.
It really didn't look like that on the Sky News report to me.
Walking away with an armful of freebies from a high street chain promotion never looks good.
Politic 101, - you just don’t do it.
It was a brown paper lunch bag, offered to him and Watson by the Costa staff. It was hardly an armful.
Corbyn and his followers have completely ignored the fact that as The Leader of The Labour Party he represents all of those dedicated Labour voters from all across the republican ..royalist spectrum..he must respect their views..He is not a lone crusader..he must listen to what they are saying.. the last idiot ignored them to his..and ultimately ..our cost.
Saw two bits of Corbyn coverage today. BBC lead on his speech to the unions. Sky had three negative snippets (tie at half mast, not singing the national anthem and [this is more contentious] allegedly taking food meant for veterans [though he may have been offered it]), as well as some speech coverage.
You are right to say 'allegedly'. This is the allegation “Jeremy and Watson went straight over, they went rushing towards where the free packs were, and dived in. He was obviously rushing off to the TUC and he grabbed two of these bags. They were for the veterans and the volunteers in the red jackets. Jeremy was looking inside them and picking up the sandwiches he wanted. Tom Watson only took one and so did everybody, all the veterans, but Jeremy took two, which I thought was really off.” (made by photographer Steve Back)
I make no comment.
It really didn't look like that on the Sky News report to me.
Walking away with an armful of freebies from a high street chain promotion never looks good.
Politic 101, - you just don’t do it.
Why not? This one is petty.
If they were offered sandwiches by a chain and they just walked by would someone have been writing about a snub? They were offered a sandwich and politely accepted and no taxpayers money involved - this is silly.
Just been watching several international TV news channels all focussing on the refugee chaos.. MERKEL .. YOU ARE A COMPLETE DINGBAT..
And she has to resign - catastrophic decision taken with arrogance, self interest and without any consultation with the rest of the EU Nations. David Cameron has been right all along and he now has a chance to take Europe in the right direction by massive increase EU wide in aid to the camps and to take refugees only from them. The UN must come in and establish camps throughout North Africa and the Middle East. Schengen will have to go and free movement throughout the EU abolished. And the break up of the EU is very possible - Goodbye to Juncker et al
Saw two bits of Corbyn coverage today. BBC lead on his speech to the unions. Sky had three negative snippets (tie at half mast, not singing the national anthem and [this is more contentious] allegedly taking food meant for veterans [though he may have been offered it]), as well as some speech coverage.
You are right to say 'allegedly'. This is the allegation “Jeremy and Watson went straight over, they went rushing towards where the free packs were, and dived in. He was obviously rushing off to the TUC and he grabbed two of these bags. They were for the veterans and the volunteers in the red jackets. Jeremy was looking inside them and picking up the sandwiches he wanted. Tom Watson only took one and so did everybody, all the veterans, but Jeremy took two, which I thought was really off.” (made by photographer Steve Back)
I make no comment.
It really didn't look like that on the Sky News report to me.
Walking away with an armful of freebies from a high street chain promotion never looks good.
If DUP were voting with Labour, how the hell did they pull off a 35 vote lead... quite impressive. (35 MPs not voting on such a piece of legislation is quite embarrassing for the opposition, except the Sinn Fein ones)
If DUP were voting with Labour, how the hell did they pull off a 35 vote lead... quite impressive. (35 MPs not voting on such a piece of legislation is quite embarrassing for the opposition, except the Sinn Fein ones)
If DUP were voting with Labour, how the hell did they pull off a 35 vote lead... quite impressive. (35 MPs not voting on such a piece of legislation is quite embarrassing for the opposition, except the Sinn Fein ones)
Not seen the breakdown yet but Tories, UUP and Carswell total 333. The rest less Sinn Fein is 313 so both sides are missing a few (as you'd expect with whatistcalled). Maybe the Liberals abstained or backed the Tories.
Just been watching several international TV news channels all focussing on the refugee chaos.. MERKEL .. YOU ARE A COMPLETE DINGBAT..
And she has to resign - catastrophic decision taken with arrogance, self interest and without any consultation with the rest of the EU Nations. David Cameron has been right all along and he now has a chance to take Europe in the right direction by massive increase EU wide in aid to the camps and to take refugees only from them. The UN must come in and establish camps throughout North Africa and the Middle East. Schengen will have to go and free movement throughout the EU abolished. And the break up of the EU is very possible - Goodbye to Juncker et al
On both the migrant crisis and the single currency events have shown the UK has been utterly in the right, and has been ignored at the rest of Europe's peril. Clearly the EU should listen to us on renegotiation and reform. If after two such major failures they still refuse to listen to us, then we are better off leaving.
If Corbyn were not Labour leader that vote would have been a big moment. The Tories and UKIP have combined to make millions of working people worse off. An effective opposition could capitalise on that.
If DUP were voting with Labour, how the hell did they pull off a 35 vote lead... quite impressive. (35 MPs not voting on such a piece of legislation is quite embarrassing for the opposition, except the Sinn Fein ones)
Not seen the breakdown yet but Tories, UUP and Carswell total 333. The rest less Sinn Fein is 313 so both sides are missing a few (as you'd expect with whatistcalled). Maybe the Liberals abstained or backed the Tories.
I'm not sure if the UUP were voting for this they may have abstained so that's 331. Then the speaker and deputy speakers don't vote so that knocks two off each side so that's 330 (one Tory deputy speaker). The two tellers don't figure in the tally I thought so that's 328. 325 out of a maximum 328 including Carswell is pretty impressive.
'Oh I can't help quoting you, cos everything that you say it rings true...'
‘Jeremy Corbyn Night’ at the Forum in Kentish Town, on Monday night, should have been a scene of orgiastic pleasure for socialist Labour. Corbyn’s victory was the triumph the grand old reactionaries of north London have been waiting a generation for. But they weren’t happy; they were as angry and full of bile as ever.
The scene took me right back to my childhood in Islington in the 1970s. My neighbours in the queue outside the Forum had posher voices than you hear at Annabel’s. The smart greybeards from the £2 million villas of Kentish Town and Islington were joined by a new generation of under-thirties: white, university-educated, also with upmarket voices. And how they lapped up the tide of anger pouring from the stage. The comedian Arthur Smith celebrated the day Margaret Thatcher died, to cheers from the audience, and quoted Jack Dee — ‘The Russians, they knew how to treat the royal family’. He went on to describe the traditional Tory fire drill in a crowded building — ‘Run for the door and trample over everyone else.’
DAIR.. No I don'tdefend the Windsor Gang.. I have no feelings about any of them at all and would have a go at them if they were being prats... as you will realise.. a prat is a prat whether it be Royal or Scot..A far as Madge is concerned..I just see an 80 odd year old who looks like she would rather be at home reading a book
You're trying to imply that her disgust with the public is a new thing related to her age. It's not, it's how she has been raised, how she actually feels and her scowling has existed for her entire "career" of lumbering the public with a massive Benefits bill.
I've never understood why so called Republicans want to live here, you can stomp your feet all you like the monarchy isn't going anywhere.
I'm a republican not as I have any disrespect for the Queen or the country but for example as I see no reason why one day my daughter should be constitutionally incapable of ever becoming head of state.
Your daughter might still be head of state.
The present royal family may fall as others have before them and thus the Windsor's may have to give way to the Thompson's and your daughter succeed you - King Philip II - as the new Queen.
Is Philip of Spain traditionally recognised as Philip I?
Most of the references I see are just to Queen Mary - my understanding is that part of the deal she did was that he explicitly did *not* become King.
(but - to misquote @Morris_Dancer - it's a bit before my time)
You seem to be arguing for abolition and the title going to the PM. I would probably agree with that,
If not, the answer is pretty simple. Legitimacy and Accountability.
I'm not arguing for or against anything. I'm asking you.
What would the person be accountable for? If the role is purely ceremonial, what is the need for accountability?
Also, what do you mean by legitimacy?
I really can't be bothered to define pretty simple terms for you. Google the term if you don't understand what Legitimacy means.
Accountability would provide a mechanism for replacement when they fail at the role. For example the Windsor Gang continually embarrasses the country, particularly through Lizzie's spouse and his constant stream of racist remarks. Unfortunately, we can't replace her no matter how badly her entourage behaves.
Prince Philip is so good at his role that an entire people half the world away have decided to worship him as a god.
If DUP were voting with Labour, how the hell did they pull off a 35 vote lead... quite impressive. (35 MPs not voting on such a piece of legislation is quite embarrassing for the opposition, except the Sinn Fein ones)
Not seen the breakdown yet but Tories, UUP and Carswell total 333. The rest less Sinn Fein is 313 so both sides are missing a few (as you'd expect with whatistcalled). Maybe the Liberals abstained or backed the Tories.
I'm not sure if the UUP were voting for this they may have abstained so that's 331. Then the speaker and deputy speakers don't vote so that knocks two off each side so that's 330 (one Tory deputy speaker). The two tellers don't figure in the tally I thought so that's 328. 325 out of a maximum 328 including Carswell is pretty impressive.
Spot on. Con very close to 100% turnout - whilst opposition have several people missing.
This is going to be the pattern - even if a few Con MPs rebel on a vote the key is that the opposition is going to need to know in advance and ensure they have 100% turnout - which isn't going to be easy when the opposition splits so many ways.
If Corbyn were not Labour leader that vote would have been a big moment. The Tories and UKIP have combined to make millions of working people worse off. An effective opposition could capitalise on that.
Worse off? How in heaven's name do you come to that bizarre conclusion?
I think BTW that there might be a big difference between Londoners and non-Londoners on the importance of reform of union law. It is Londoners and commuters who have been most badly hit by completely ridiculous strikes in recent years.
Edit: Sorry, my mistake - I thought you were talking about the Trade Union bill. So many evil Tory bills going through while Labour are in meltdown that I'm losing track.
DAIR.. No I don'tdefend the Windsor Gang.. I have no feelings about any of them at all and would have a go at them if they were being prats... as you will realise.. a prat is a prat whether it be Royal or Scot..A far as Madge is concerned..I just see an 80 odd year old who looks like she would rather be at home reading a book
You're trying to imply that her disgust with the public is a new thing related to her age. It's not, it's how she has been raised, how she actually feels and her scowling has existed for her entire "career" of lumbering the public with a massive Benefits bill.
I've never understood why so called Republicans want to live here, you can stomp your feet all you like the monarchy isn't going anywhere.
I'm a republican not as I have any disrespect for the Queen or the country but for example as I see no reason why one day my daughter should be constitutionally incapable of ever becoming head of state.
Your daughter might still be head of state.
The present royal family may fall as others have before them and thus the Windsor's may have to give way to the Thompson's and your daughter succeed you - King Philip II - as the new Queen.
Is Philip of Spain traditionally recognised as Philip I?
Most of the references I see are just to Queen Mary - my understanding is that part of the deal she did was that he explicitly did *not* become King.
(but - to misquote @Morris_Dancer - it's a bit before my time)
If DUP were voting with Labour, how the hell did they pull off a 35 vote lead... quite impressive. (35 MPs not voting on such a piece of legislation is quite embarrassing for the opposition, except the Sinn Fein ones)
Not seen the breakdown yet but Tories, UUP and Carswell total 333. The rest less Sinn Fein is 313 so both sides are missing a few (as you'd expect with whatistcalled). Maybe the Liberals abstained or backed the Tories.
I'm not sure if the UUP were voting for this they may have abstained so that's 331. Then the speaker and deputy speakers don't vote so that knocks two off each side so that's 330 (one Tory deputy speaker). The two tellers don't figure in the tally I thought so that's 328. 325 out of a maximum 328 including Carswell is pretty impressive.
Spot on. Con very close to 100% turnout - whilst opposition have several people missing.
This is going to be the pattern - even if a few Con MPs rebel on a vote the key is that the opposition is going to need to know in advance and ensure they have 100% turnout - which isn't going to be easy when the opposition splits so many ways.
You could argue it is in the LibDem & SNP interests to have intentionally poor turnout. A corbyn victory could further cannibalise any chance they have at sustaining or bouncing back their seat count. That would be quite cynical and unprincipled though...
Maybe the collective term for Conservative PBers should be The Swarm
Judging by how they have been proved correct,time after time, perhaps the "oracle" would be more appropriate.Perhaps even a "herd of oracles" to emphasise the number and accuracy of its members.
If Corbyn were not Labour leader that vote would have been a big moment. The Tories and UKIP have combined to make millions of working people worse off. An effective opposition could capitalise on that.
UKIP? They only have one MP, how could they make a difference?
Maybe the collective term for Conservative PBers should be The Swarm
Judging by how they have been proved correct,time after time, perhaps the "oracle" would be more appropriate.Perhaps even a "herd of oracles" to emphasise the number and accuracy of its members.
Labour "attack" tweet on tax credits - they really need to get with the programme and hire some US attack ads specialists. We should be getting video clips of Osbo/IDS pickpocketing families - taking food off their tables etc:
If DUP were voting with Labour, how the hell did they pull off a 35 vote lead... quite impressive. (35 MPs not voting on such a piece of legislation is quite embarrassing for the opposition, except the Sinn Fein ones)
Not seen the breakdown yet but Tories, UUP and Carswell total 333. The rest less Sinn Fein is 313 so both sides are missing a few (as you'd expect with whatistcalled). Maybe the Liberals abstained or backed the Tories.
I'm not sure if the UUP were voting for this they may have abstained so that's 331. Then the speaker and deputy speakers don't vote so that knocks two off each side so that's 330 (one Tory deputy speaker). The two tellers don't figure in the tally I thought so that's 328. 325 out of a maximum 328 including Carswell is pretty impressive.
Spot on. Con very close to 100% turnout - whilst opposition have several people missing.
This is going to be the pattern - even if a few Con MPs rebel on a vote the key is that the opposition is going to need to know in advance and ensure they have 100% turnout - which isn't going to be easy when the opposition splits so many ways.
Thanks I thought I may have made a mistake.
Doing the maths for the opposition now, excluding the Tories, Sinn Fein, Carswell and the Speaker there are 314 MPs. Less two Labour deputy speakers makes 312, less two tellers makes 310.
So 290/310 vs 325/328 - and that's putting Carswell on the government rather than opposition side. Even if all 10 NI Unionists abstained that still leaves 10 other opposition votes unaccounted for.
You seem to be arguing for abolition and the title going to the PM. I would probably agree with that,
If not, the answer is pretty simple. Legitimacy and Accountability.
I'm not arguing for or against anything. I'm asking you.
What would the person be accountable for? If the role is purely ceremonial, what is the need for accountability?
Also, what do you mean by legitimacy?
I really can't be bothered to define pretty simple terms for you. Google the term if you don't understand what Legitimacy means.
Accountability would provide a mechanism for replacement when they fail at the role. For example the Windsor Gang continually embarrasses the country, particularly through Lizzie's spouse and his constant stream of racist remarks. Unfortunately, we can't replace her no matter how badly her entourage behaves.
Prince Philip is so good at his role that an entire people half the world away have decided to worship him as a god.
Please keep this up, its a dirty job but someone has to do it. His revelations keep coming. The reasons behind the Yes vote keep getting clearer.
If Corbyn were not Labour leader that vote would have been a big moment. The Tories and UKIP have combined to make millions of working people worse off. An effective opposition could capitalise on that.
Worse off? How in heaven's name do you come to that bizarre conclusion?
I think BTW that there might be a big difference between Londoners and non-Londoners on the importance of reform of union law. It is Londoners and commuters who have been most badly hit by completely ridiculous strikes in recent years.
Edit: Sorry, my mistake - I thought you were talking about the Trade Union bill. So many evil Tory bills going through while Labour are in meltdown that I'm losing track.
If DUP were voting with Labour, how the hell did they pull off a 35 vote lead... quite impressive. (35 MPs not voting on such a piece of legislation is quite embarrassing for the opposition, except the Sinn Fein ones)
Not seen the breakdown yet but Tories, UUP and Carswell total 333. The rest less Sinn Fein is 313 so both sides are missing a few (as you'd expect with whatistcalled). Maybe the Liberals abstained or backed the Tories.
I'm not sure if the UUP were voting for this they may have abstained so that's 331. Then the speaker and deputy speakers don't vote so that knocks two off each side so that's 330 (one Tory deputy speaker). The two tellers don't figure in the tally I thought so that's 328. 325 out of a maximum 328 including Carswell is pretty impressive.
Spot on. Con very close to 100% turnout - whilst opposition have several people missing.
This is going to be the pattern - even if a few Con MPs rebel on a vote the key is that the opposition is going to need to know in advance and ensure they have 100% turnout - which isn't going to be easy when the opposition splits so many ways.
You could argue it is in the LibDem & SNP interests to have intentionally poor turnout. A corbyn victory could further cannibalise any chance they have at sustaining or bouncing back their seat count. That would be quite cynical and unprincipled though...
You really don't get the political landscape of Scotland.
When the Tories are defeated (or forced to withdraw) a vote, its the SNP that did it. When the Tories scrape something through, it's Labour who let them do it.
If Corbyn were not Labour leader that vote would have been a big moment. The Tories and UKIP have combined to make millions of working people worse off. An effective opposition could capitalise on that.
Wait, what now.
The Tory vote held up - every single one of their MPS (or very close to it) voted.
So even without Labour MPs abstaining (which appears to have happened) the Tories would still have won the vote.
If DUP were voting with Labour, how the hell did they pull off a 35 vote lead... quite impressive. (35 MPs not voting on such a piece of legislation is quite embarrassing for the opposition, except the Sinn Fein ones)
Not seen the breakdown yet but Tories, UUP and Carswell total 333. The rest less Sinn Fein is 313 so both sides are missing a few (as you'd expect with whatistcalled). Maybe the Liberals abstained or backed the Tories.
I'm not sure if the UUP were voting for this they may have abstained so that's 331. Then the speaker and deputy speakers don't vote so that knocks two off each side so that's 330 (one Tory deputy speaker). The two tellers don't figure in the tally I thought so that's 328. 325 out of a maximum 328 including Carswell is pretty impressive.
Spot on. Con very close to 100% turnout - whilst opposition have several people missing.
This is going to be the pattern - even if a few Con MPs rebel on a vote the key is that the opposition is going to need to know in advance and ensure they have 100% turnout - which isn't going to be easy when the opposition splits so many ways.
You could argue it is in the LibDem & SNP interests to have intentionally poor turnout. A corbyn victory could further cannibalise any chance they have at sustaining or bouncing back their seat count. That would be quite cynical and unprincipled though...
You really don't get the political landscape of Scotland.
When the Tories are defeated (or forced to withdraw) a vote, its the SNP that did it. When the Tories scrape something through, it's Labour who let them do it.
Corbyn isn't going to hurt the SNP.
I don't agree - if the tories can be defeated without independence it may make the appetite for independence decrease. Even if the effect is only minor.
Labour "attack" tweet on tax credits - they really need to get with the programme and hire some US attack ads specialists. We should be getting video clips of Osbo/IDS pickpocketing families - taking food off their tables etc:
twitter.com/UKLabour/status/643832441250160640
The trouble is that it looks like perhaps 20 Labour MPs have abstained from this vote. Maybe even one or two voted with the Tories.
If Corbyn were not Labour leader that vote would have been a big moment. The Tories and UKIP have combined to make millions of working people worse off. An effective opposition could capitalise on that.
Worse off? How in heaven's name do you come to that bizarre conclusion?
I think BTW that there might be a big difference between Londoners and non-Londoners on the importance of reform of union law. It is Londoners and commuters who have been most badly hit by completely ridiculous strikes in recent years.
Edit: Sorry, my mistake - I thought you were talking about the Trade Union bill. So many evil Tory bills going through while Labour are in meltdown that I'm losing track.
Yes, fair enough, my mistake. It's true that cutting the welfare budget cuts the welfare budget, and that the rise in the minimum wage only partially offsets that. The long term aim is of course to help the less well off, and modestly-paid taxpayers who contribute through their taxes, by reducing the dependency on benefits payments.
If Labour, or anyone else, has any suggestions on how to do it better, we haven't yet heard them.
There’s the same approach in a new ebook, Poets for Corbyn, crammed with hate-filled poems. ‘Wongawongaland’ — by a poet called Tom Pickard — centres around an evil Tory, ‘Doctor Gobbles’. And here is ‘Corbyn’ by Ernest Schonfield, a lecturer in German at the University of Glasgow.
‘So I can vote for Corbyn Sign up to our newsletters Because I’m sick of New Labour bullshit
and I can’t wait to see the look on war criminal Tony Blair’s face when they elect a decent man
of principle and integrity rather than some Tory-lite twat!’
How I feel for the undergraduates reading German at Glasgow University if this is the best their lecturer can do.
'Oh I can't help quoting you, cos everything that you say it rings true...'
‘Jeremy Corbyn Night’ at the Forum in Kentish Town, on Monday night, should have been a scene of orgiastic pleasure for socialist Labour. Corbyn’s victory was the triumph the grand old reactionaries of north London have been waiting a generation for. But they weren’t happy; they were as angry and full of bile as ever.
The scene took me right back to my childhood in Islington in the 1970s. My neighbours in the queue outside the Forum had posher voices than you hear at Annabel’s. The smart greybeards from the £2 million villas of Kentish Town and Islington were joined by a new generation of under-thirties: white, university-educated, also with upmarket voices. And how they lapped up the tide of anger pouring from the stage. The comedian Arthur Smith celebrated the day Margaret Thatcher died, to cheers from the audience, and quoted Jack Dee — ‘The Russians, they knew how to treat the royal family’. He went on to describe the traditional Tory fire drill in a crowded building — ‘Run for the door and trample over everyone else.’
If Corbyn were not Labour leader that vote would have been a big moment. The Tories and UKIP have combined to make millions of working people worse off. An effective opposition could capitalise on that.
No that was Brown who spent something upwards of £300bn the nation did not have. Only now, into their 6th year of government are the tories actually trying to do something about it.
Is Philip of Spain traditionally recognised as Philip I?
Most of the references I see are just to Queen Mary - my understanding is that part of the deal she did was that he explicitly did *not* become King.
(but - to misquote @Morris_Dancer - it's a bit before my time)
Under the terms of Queen Mary's Marriage Act, Philip was to be styled "King of England", all official documents (including Acts of Parliament) were to be dated with both their names, and Parliament was to be called under the joint authority of the couple, for Mary's lifetime only. England would not be obliged to provide military support to Philip's father in any war, and Philip could not act without his wife's consent or appoint foreigners to office in England.[92] Philip was unhappy at the conditions imposed, but he was ready to agree for the sake of securing the marriage.[93] He had no amorous feelings toward Mary and sought the marriage for its political and strategic gains; Philip's aide Ruy Gómez de Silva wrote to a correspondent in Brussels, "the marriage was concluded for no fleshly consideration, but in order to remedy the disorders of this kingdom and to preserve the Low Countries."[94]
If DUP were voting with Labour, how the hell did they pull off a 35 vote lead... quite impressive. (35 MPs not voting on such a piece of legislation is quite embarrassing for the opposition, except the Sinn Fein ones)
Not seen the breakdown yet but Tories, UUP and Carswell total 333. The rest less Sinn Fein is 313 so both sides are missing a few (as you'd expect with whatistcalled). Maybe the Liberals abstained or backed the Tories.
I'm not sure if the UUP were voting for this they may have abstained so that's 331. Then the speaker and deputy speakers don't vote so that knocks two off each side so that's 330 (one Tory deputy speaker). The two tellers don't figure in the tally I thought so that's 328. 325 out of a maximum 328 including Carswell is pretty impressive.
Spot on. Con very close to 100% turnout - whilst opposition have several people missing.
This is going to be the pattern - even if a few Con MPs rebel on a vote the key is that the opposition is going to need to know in advance and ensure they have 100% turnout - which isn't going to be easy when the opposition splits so many ways.
You could argue it is in the LibDem & SNP interests to have intentionally poor turnout. A corbyn victory could further cannibalise any chance they have at sustaining or bouncing back their seat count. That would be quite cynical and unprincipled though...
You really don't get the political landscape of Scotland.
When the Tories are defeated (or forced to withdraw) a vote, its the SNP that did it. When the Tories scrape something through, it's Labour who let them do it.
Corbyn isn't going to hurt the SNP.
I don't agree - if the tories can be defeated without independence it may make the appetite for independence decrease. Even if the effect is only minor.
And that can't happen when Labour MPs are busy voting with the Tories on cutting Tax Credits (as appears to have just happened). Corbyn is tearing Labour apart and in Scotland a Blairite is in charge.
If Corbyn were not Labour leader that vote would have been a big moment. The Tories and UKIP have combined to make millions of working people worse off. An effective opposition could capitalise on that.
Worse off? How in heaven's name do you come to that bizarre conclusion?
I think BTW that there might be a big difference between Londoners and non-Londoners on the importance of reform of union law. It is Londoners and commuters who have been most badly hit by completely ridiculous strikes in recent years.
Edit: Sorry, my mistake - I thought you were talking about the Trade Union bill. So many evil Tory bills going through while Labour are in meltdown that I'm losing track.
Yes, fair enough, my mistake. It's true that cutting the welfare budget cuts the welfare budget, and that the rise in the minimum wage only partially offsets that. The long term aim is of course to help the less well off, and modestly-paid taxpayers who contribute through their taxes, by reducing the dependency on benefits payments.
If Labour, or anyone else, has any suggestions on how to do it better, we haven't yet heard them.
So we agree that the Tories and UKIP have voted to make millions of working people worse off. And I am sure we also agree that it does not matter. With Corbyn in charge, any Labour alternatives are not going to get a hearing.
Maybe the collective term for Conservative PBers should be The Swarm
Judging by how they have been proved correct,time after time, perhaps the "oracle" would be more appropriate.Perhaps even a "herd of oracles" to emphasise the number and accuracy of its members.
There’s the same approach in a new ebook, Poets for Corbyn, crammed with hate-filled poems. ‘Wongawongaland’ — by a poet called Tom Pickard — centres around an evil Tory, ‘Doctor Gobbles’. And here is ‘Corbyn’ by Ernest Schonfield, a lecturer in German at the University of Glasgow.
‘So I can vote for Corbyn Sign up to our newsletters Because I’m sick of New Labour bullshit
and I can’t wait to see the look on war criminal Tony Blair’s face when they elect a decent man
of principle and integrity rather than some Tory-lite twat!’
How I feel for the undergraduates reading German at Glasgow University if this is the best their lecturer can do.
'Oh I can't help quoting you, cos everything that you say it rings true...'
‘Jeremy Corbyn Night’ at the Forum in Kentish Town, on Monday night, should have been a scene of orgiastic pleasure for socialist Labour. Corbyn’s victory was the triumph the grand old reactionaries of north London have been waiting a generation for. But they weren’t happy; they were as angry and full of bile as ever.
The scene took me right back to my childhood in Islington in the 1970s. My neighbours in the queue outside the Forum had posher voices than you hear at Annabel’s. The smart greybeards from the £2 million villas of Kentish Town and Islington were joined by a new generation of under-thirties: white, university-educated, also with upmarket voices. And how they lapped up the tide of anger pouring from the stage. The comedian Arthur Smith celebrated the day Margaret Thatcher died, to cheers from the audience, and quoted Jack Dee — ‘The Russians, they knew how to treat the royal family’. He went on to describe the traditional Tory fire drill in a crowded building — ‘Run for the door and trample over everyone else.’
Germany seems to be making up for its National Socialist past in all the wrong ways.
My Facebook news feed generally alternates between pictures of babies, pictures of people's dinner, holidays (during the summer) and "motivational" images - not politics.
But when it is politics its either the far left or the far right. Britain First are infamous for it.
Generally I think Facebook is an absolutely appalling medium for discussing politics.
Maybe I should write some Tory-bashing poetry. Or comedy. Whilst Corbynistas are a minority, there's a quarter of a million of them and they seem to love that sort of thing.
[For when Sir Edric comes out, as it were, in 2016 I already have cunning plans to market it for Conservatives (the most politically incorrect man in the world) and Labour (postmodern satire on the ridiculousness of inherited privilege/wealth)].
So we agree that the Tories and UKIP have voted to make millions of working people worse off.
Yes, in the sense that Labour made millions of working people worse off by increasing National Insurance rates. The difference is that you think, for reasons I don't understand, that the former is reprehensible and the latter is not.
@bbcdemlive: The result of the vote on changes to #taxcredits. Ayes: 325 Noes: 290
That's very good whipping by the Tories.
If they can keep that up they should have no problems getting their whole manifesto through.
Mark Harper used to be my MP. Very personable, effective and actually listened to people even when they disagreed with him - good recipe for a chief whip.
If DUP were voting with Labour, how the hell did they pull off a 35 vote lead... quite impressive. (35 MPs not voting on such a piece of legislation is quite embarrassing for the opposition, except the Sinn Fein ones)
It could be that several Labour MPs are simply too demoralised to be motivated to vote to a whip.
If Corbyn were not Labour leader that vote would have been a big moment. The Tories and UKIP have combined to make millions of working people worse off. An effective opposition could capitalise on that.
Worse off? How in heaven's name do you come to that bizarre conclusion?
I think BTW that there might be a big difference between Londoners and non-Londoners on the importance of reform of union law. It is Londoners and commuters who have been most badly hit by completely ridiculous strikes in recent years.
Edit: Sorry, my mistake - I thought you were talking about the Trade Union bill. So many evil Tory bills going through while Labour are in meltdown that I'm losing track.
Yes, fair enough, my mistake. It's true that cutting the welfare budget cuts the welfare budget, and that the rise in the minimum wage only partially offsets that. The long term aim is of course to help the less well off, and modestly-paid taxpayers who contribute through their taxes, by reducing the dependency on benefits payments.
If Labour, or anyone else, has any suggestions on how to do it better, we haven't yet heard them.
So we agree that the Tories and UKIP have voted to make millions of working people worse off. And I am sure we also agree that it does not matter. With Corbyn in charge, any Labour alternatives are not going to get a hearing.
Well, as a working person who helps pay for these handouts without receiving anything in return, today's vote has made me better off. Not in a vote swinging way, but if that was all that mattered then the country would be in even direr straights.
@bbcdemlive: The result of the vote on changes to #taxcredits. Ayes: 325 Noes: 290
That's very good whipping by the Tories.
If they can keep that up they should have no problems getting their whole manifesto through.
Mark Harper used to be my MP. Very personable, effective and actually listened to people even when they disagreed with him - good recipe for a chief whip.
Good news with a tight majority. A tight majority can go either way, with good discipline to get through - or terrible discipline with the extremes trying to hold to ransom the rest of the party.
A good chief whip is critical to be effective for the right reasons.
There’s the same approach in a new ebook, Poets for Corbyn, crammed with hate-filled poems. ‘Wongawongaland’ — by a poet called Tom Pickard — centres around an evil Tory, ‘Doctor Gobbles’. And here is ‘Corbyn’ by Ernest Schonfield, a lecturer in German at the University of Glasgow.
‘So I can vote for Corbyn Sign up to our newsletters Because I’m sick of New Labour bullshit
and I can’t wait to see the look on war criminal Tony Blair’s face when they elect a decent man
of principle and integrity rather than some Tory-lite twat!’
How I feel for the undergraduates reading German at Glasgow University if this is the best their lecturer can do.
'Oh I can't help quoting you, cos everything that you say it rings true...'
‘Jeremy Corbyn Night’ at the Forum in Kentish Town, on Monday night, should have been a scene of orgiastic pleasure for socialist Labour. Corbyn’s victory was the triumph the grand old reactionaries of north London have been waiting a generation for. But they weren’t happy; they were as angry and full of bile as ever.
The scene took me right back to my childhood in Islington in the 1970s. My neighbours in the queue outside the Forum had posher voices than you hear at Annabel’s. The smart greybeards from the £2 million villas of Kentish Town and Islington were joined by a new generation of under-thirties: white, university-educated, also with upmarket voices. And how they lapped up the tide of anger pouring from the stage. The comedian Arthur Smith celebrated the day Margaret Thatcher died, to cheers from the audience, and quoted Jack Dee — ‘The Russians, they knew how to treat the royal family’. He went on to describe the traditional Tory fire drill in a crowded building — ‘Run for the door and trample over everyone else.’
@bbcdemlive: The result of the vote on changes to #taxcredits. Ayes: 325 Noes: 290
That's very good whipping by the Tories.
If they can keep that up they should have no problems getting their whole manifesto through.
Mark Harper used to be my MP. Very personable, effective and actually listened to people even when they disagreed with him - good recipe for a chief whip.
Good news with a tight majority. A tight majority can go either way, with good discipline to get through - or terrible discipline with the extremes trying to hold to ransom the rest of the party.
A good chief whip is critical to be effective for the right reasons.
Of course, on the flip side, it could be that several Labour MPs are too demoralised to be motivated to vote to a whip right now.
@bbcdemlive: The result of the vote on changes to #taxcredits. Ayes: 325 Noes: 290
That's very good whipping by the Tories.
If they can keep that up they should have no problems getting their whole manifesto through.
Mark Harper used to be my MP. Very personable, effective and actually listened to people even when they disagreed with him - good recipe for a chief whip.
Good news with a tight majority. A tight majority can go either way, with good discipline to get through - or terrible discipline with the extremes trying to hold to ransom the rest of the party.
A good chief whip is critical to be effective for the right reasons.
Of course, on the flip side, it could be that several Labour MPs are too demoralised to be motivated to vote to a whip right now.
Six of one, half a dozen of the other. However its best to have a good chief whip who isn't getting bad habits setting in early. If the opposition ever unites (which given disparate parties on top of everything else isn't likely) then its best not to be starting from a position of disunity.
DAIR.. No I don'tdefend the Windsor Gang.. I have no feelings about any of them at all and would have a go at them if they were being prats... as you will realise.. a prat is a prat whether it be Royal or Scot..A far as Madge is concerned..I just see an 80 odd year old who looks like she would rather be at home reading a book
You're trying to imply that her disgust with the public is a new thing related to her age. It's not, it's how she has been raised, how she actually feels and her scowling has existed for her entire "career" of lumbering the public with a massive Benefits bill.
I've never understood why so called Republicans want to live here, you can stomp your feet all you like the monarchy isn't going anywhere.
I'm a republican not as I have any disrespect for the Queen or the country but for example as I see no reason why one day my daughter should be constitutionally incapable of ever becoming head of state.
Your daughter might still be head of state.
The present royal family may fall as others have before them and thus the Windsor's may have to give way to the Thompson's and your daughter succeed you - King Philip II - as the new Queen.
Is Philip of Spain traditionally recognised as Philip I?
Most of the references I see are just to Queen Mary - my understanding is that part of the deal she did was that he explicitly did *not* become King.
(but - to misquote @Morris_Dancer - it's a bit before my time)
If I remember correctly, they were co-regents.
Yes they were co-monarchs and Philip was to known by the title King of England, but only as long as the marriage lasted. However, there were serious restrictions put on the powers Philip could wield (no appointing foreigners to offices of state was one).
He was not so much King as king in name only and only for as long as Mary was alive. There is big contrast between what Parliament allowed for Mary and Philip and what it allowed for the other big name co-monarchy William and Mary a hundred years later. (republicans, please note that it was Parliament that gave consent to the marriage and set the conditions).
Whether Philip Should be in the canon of English Monarchs is a moot point. Probably he should but like "King Louis" (the Frenchman who was invited over to be king by some of the aristocracy a few hundred years earlier), English sentiment seems to have always been against it.
So we agree that the Tories and UKIP have voted to make millions of working people worse off.
Yes, in the sense that Labour made millions of working people worse off by increasing National Insurance rates. The difference is that you think, for reasons I don't understand, that the former is reprehensible and the latter is not.
My point here is not to judge the reductions; though, as you'd expect, I think it's a bad idea to take reduce the incomes of working people. My point is to say that politically this could have bee a big moment, but won't be because Labour is not a credible opposition.
So we agree that the Tories and UKIP have voted to make millions of working people worse off.
Yes, in the sense that Labour made millions of working people worse off by increasing National Insurance rates. The difference is that you think, for reasons I don't understand, that the former is reprehensible and the latter is not.
To be fair I think there is a distinction in that national insurance rises were universal, whereas tax credit cuts are targeted.
So we agree that the Tories and UKIP have voted to make millions of working people worse off.
Yes, in the sense that Labour made millions of working people worse off by increasing National Insurance rates. The difference is that you think, for reasons I don't understand, that the former is reprehensible and the latter is not.
To be fair I think there is a distinction in that national insurance rises were universal, whereas tax credit cuts are targeted.
My point here is not to judge the reductions; though, as you'd expect, I think it's a bad idea to take reduce the incomes of working people. My point is to say that politically this could have bee a big moment, but won't be because Labour is not a credible opposition.
Yes, I agree. I expect there will be plenty more such cases in the coming months.
To an extent this is the reverse of what happened when the Conservatives were in disarrary in the Hague and IDS years. But at that time Blair had such a large majority that the opposition would have been impotent no matter how well-organised and well-led they might have been. The difference now is that Labour are throwing away an opportunity to be an effective opposition against a government with a small majority. Their choice, obviously, but I'm sure you'll agree that its an odd way to do politics.
Looks like only two Tory rebels on Tax Credit cuts: @DavidDavisMP and @SMcPartlandMP And Andrew Percy abstain, massive unity from the tory benches.
If two government MPs voted against then by my maths 22 opposition MPs must have abstained. That's not impressive.
I wonder if it's possible for parties to actually monitor numbers going through the lobbies to try to engineer a result that makes it look like opposition abstainers have decided the outcome?
@bbcdemlive: The result of the vote on changes to #taxcredits. Ayes: 325 Noes: 290
That's very good whipping by the Tories.
If they can keep that up they should have no problems getting their whole manifesto through.
Mark Harper used to be my MP. Very personable, effective and actually listened to people even when they disagreed with him - good recipe for a chief whip.
Makes sense, on the assumption it will be hard for him to be pushed from the position. Jump? Perhaps.
Not been online much today today, but reading around it feels that when Dan Hodges thinks the Tories might be going a bit too far on something, that's notable in a small way. Not his usual tone.
Hmm. I wonder if he noticed (he's rather elderly), either at the time or beforehand.
Pretty stupid of whoever prepares his notes for him, that's for sure. Isn't his current wife, and rising star in power terms, his former secretary? Maybe her replacement is not as good.
Looks like only two Tory rebels on Tax Credit cuts: @DavidDavisMP and @SMcPartlandMP And Andrew Percy abstain, massive unity from the tory benches.
If two government MPs voted against then by my maths 22 opposition MPs must have abstained. That's not impressive.
I wonder if it's possible for parties to actually monitor numbers going through the lobbies to try to engineer a result that makes it look like opposition abstainers have decided the outcome?
If its possible to greet Corbyn at the TUC to the strains of 'Hey big spender' then indeed anything is possible.
So we agree that the Tories and UKIP have voted to make millions of working people worse off.
Yes, in the sense that Labour made millions of working people worse off by increasing National Insurance rates. The difference is that you think, for reasons I don't understand, that the former is reprehensible and the latter is not.
To be fair I think there is a distinction in that national insurance rises were universal, whereas tax credit cuts are targeted.
They were universally a tax on jobs.
The employer element is a tax on jobs. But that's not the point.
DAIR.. No I don'tdefend the Windsor Gang.. I have no feelings about any of them at all and would have a go at them if they were being prats... as you will realise.. a prat is a prat whether it be Royal or Scot..A far as Madge is concerned..I just see an 80 odd year old who looks like she would rather be at home reading a book
You're trying to imply that her disgust with the public is a new thing related to her age. It's not, it's how she has been raised, how she actually feels and her scowling has existed for her entire "career" of lumbering the public with a massive Benefits bill.
I've never understood why so called Republicans want to live here, you can stomp your feet all you like the monarchy isn't going anywhere.
I'm a republican not as I have any disrespect for the Queen or the country but for example as I see no reason why one day my daughter should be constitutionally incapable of ever becoming head of state.
Your daughter might still be head of state.
The present royal family may fall as others have before them and thus the Windsor's may have to give way to the Thompson's and your daughter succeed you - King Philip II - as the new Queen.
Is Philip of Spain traditionally recognised as Philip I?
Most of the references I see are just to Queen Mary - my understanding is that part of the deal she did was that he explicitly did *not* become King.
(but - to misquote @Morris_Dancer - it's a bit before my time)
If I remember correctly, they were co-regents.
Only for her lifetime though, so he wasn't a King in the true sense
Labour "attack" tweet on tax credits - they really need to get with the programme and hire some US attack ads specialists. We should be getting video clips of Osbo/IDS pickpocketing families - taking food off their tables etc:
How about Osborne pinching some sandwiches meant for veterans?
Labour "attack" tweet on tax credits - they really need to get with the programme and hire some US attack ads specialists. We should be getting video clips of Osbo/IDS pickpocketing families - taking food off their tables etc:
How about Osborne pinching some sandwiches meant for veterans?
But your 40 million idea is nonsense in practice. Look at the States, two Bushes, now perhaps a second Clinton. Their system is not egalitarian, it's based totally on the patronage of the ultra-rich, who winnow the candidates down to Mr Corporation 1 and Mr Corporation 2 then present the public with that so called choice. With our system at least we know its a hereditary Monarch and real political power is held elsewhere.
Truly mind-boggling stuff.
How do monarchists keep a straight face when they write this drivel.
I have simply stated that I find the illusion of democracy less preferable than the reality of hereditary ceremonial flummery. Hardly an indefensible concept.
It's obvious to anyone reading your posts on this topic that they're based not on any notion of egalitarianism, simply your own feelings toward the English aristocracy. An inferiority complex is not a good basis for a political philosophy.
Comments
If they were offered sandwiches by a chain and they just walked by would someone have been writing about a snub? They were offered a sandwich and politely accepted and no taxpayers money involved - this is silly.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-34258993
‘Jeremy Corbyn Night’ at the Forum in Kentish Town, on Monday night, should have been a scene of orgiastic pleasure for socialist Labour. Corbyn’s victory was the triumph the grand old reactionaries of north London have been waiting a generation for. But they weren’t happy; they were as angry and full of bile as ever.
The scene took me right back to my childhood in Islington in the 1970s. My neighbours in the queue outside the Forum had posher voices than you hear at Annabel’s. The smart greybeards from the £2 million villas of Kentish Town and Islington were joined by a new generation of under-thirties: white, university-educated, also with upmarket voices. And how they lapped up the tide of anger pouring from the stage. The comedian Arthur Smith celebrated the day Margaret Thatcher died, to cheers from the audience, and quoted Jack Dee — ‘The Russians, they knew how to treat the royal family’. He went on to describe the traditional Tory fire drill in a crowded building — ‘Run for the door and trample over everyone else.’
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/09/corbyn-has-won-so-why-are-the-north-london-lefties-still-so-angry-and-nasty/
Most of the references I see are just to Queen Mary - my understanding is that part of the deal she did was that he explicitly did *not* become King.
(but - to misquote @Morris_Dancer - it's a bit before my time)
This is going to be the pattern - even if a few Con MPs rebel on a vote the key is that the opposition is going to need to know in advance and ensure they have 100% turnout - which isn't going to be easy when the opposition splits so many ways.
I think BTW that there might be a big difference between Londoners and non-Londoners on the importance of reform of union law. It is Londoners and commuters who have been most badly hit by completely ridiculous strikes in recent years.
Edit: Sorry, my mistake - I thought you were talking about the Trade Union bill. So many evil Tory bills going through while Labour are in meltdown that I'm losing track.
I presume under Kendall only a handful of votes would have been against as she said she agrees with the cap.
https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/643832441250160640
Doing the maths for the opposition now, excluding the Tories, Sinn Fein, Carswell and the Speaker there are 314 MPs. Less two Labour deputy speakers makes 312, less two tellers makes 310.
So 290/310 vs 325/328 - and that's putting Carswell on the government rather than opposition side. Even if all 10 NI Unionists abstained that still leaves 10 other opposition votes unaccounted for.
Reporter quotes Labour statement saying he stood in "respectful silence".
http://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/budgets/Budgets 2015/Summer/Hood_distributional_analysis.pdf
When the Tories are defeated (or forced to withdraw) a vote, its the SNP that did it. When the Tories scrape something through, it's Labour who let them do it.
Corbyn isn't going to hurt the SNP.
https://twitter.com/andrewpercy/status/643823875227299840
The Tory vote held up - every single one of their MPS (or very close to it) voted.
So even without Labour MPs abstaining (which appears to have happened) the Tories would still have won the vote.
http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/15/9329119/facebook-germany-hate-speech-xenophobia-migrant-refugee
Germany seems to be making up for its National Socialist past in all the wrong ways.
'He never loses'
http://www.politico.eu/article/tooting-to-victory-london-sadiq-khan-mayor-corbyn-goldsmith-boris-johnson-bevin/
If Labour, or anyone else, has any suggestions on how to do it better, we haven't yet heard them.
Remain 43%
Leave 40%
Undecided 17%
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-poll-shows-britain-edging-towards-leaving-the-eu-10501616.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_I_of_England
If they can keep that up they should have no problems getting their whole manifesto through.
SLAB's position can only get worse.
Can it be sung to the tune of the national anthem?
But when it is politics its either the far left or the far right. Britain First are infamous for it.
Generally I think Facebook is an absolutely appalling medium for discussing politics.
Maybe I should write some Tory-bashing poetry. Or comedy. Whilst Corbynistas are a minority, there's a quarter of a million of them and they seem to love that sort of thing.
[For when Sir Edric comes out, as it were, in 2016 I already have cunning plans to market it for Conservatives (the most politically incorrect man in the world) and Labour (postmodern satire on the ridiculousness of inherited privilege/wealth)].
A good chief whip is critical to be effective for the right reasons.
No, but it's quite rousing sung to the tune of Horst Wessel lied
And Andrew Percy abstain, massive unity from the tory benches.
He was not so much King as king in name only and only for as long as Mary was alive. There is big contrast between what Parliament allowed for Mary and Philip and what it allowed for the other big name co-monarchy William and Mary a hundred years later. (republicans, please note that it was Parliament that gave consent to the marriage and set the conditions).
Whether Philip Should be in the canon of English Monarchs is a moot point. Probably he should but like "King Louis" (the Frenchman who was invited over to be king by some of the aristocracy a few hundred years earlier), English sentiment seems to have always been against it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-34256898
Hmm. I wonder if he noticed (he's rather elderly), either at the time or beforehand.
To an extent this is the reverse of what happened when the Conservatives were in disarrary in the Hague and IDS years. But at that time Blair had such a large majority that the opposition would have been impotent no matter how well-organised and well-led they might have been. The difference now is that Labour are throwing away an opportunity to be an effective opposition against a government with a small majority. Their choice, obviously, but I'm sure you'll agree that its an odd way to do politics.
Not been online much today today, but reading around it feels that when Dan Hodges thinks the Tories might be going a bit too far on something, that's notable in a small way. Not his usual tone.
UKIP London Region Mayor & London Assembly Elections 2016 Candidate Assessment Event
on Friday 18th September 2015
2pm (new start time) to 3.30pm
at the London Marriott Hotel,
County Hall, Westminster Bridge, SE1 7PB
It should be interesting, if only to see who the UKIP candidates for London Mayor are.
But if you want to chicken out you can just not turn up and blame pressing "constituency business".
SHOCKING: Muslim ‘migrants’ raping women children #Germany Women bathroom at night sleep in clothes.http://pamelageller.com/2015/09/document-muslim-migrants-raping-women-and-children-in-camp-in-germany.html/#sthash.DsZZHLcV.dpuf … @ritzy_jewels
So what else is new?
It's obvious to anyone reading your posts on this topic that they're based not on any notion of egalitarianism, simply your own feelings toward the English aristocracy. An inferiority complex is not a good basis for a political philosophy.