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  • EPGEPG Posts: 5,996
    It's not really OK to judge that lady lawyer on their looks or to say that she must be ugly inside for asking not to be objectified by leering old men.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    antifrank said:

    Not singing the national anthem isn't Jeremy Corbyn's worst mistake of his leadership so far.

    Although I'm not sure the majority of the public would agree, I can see your point. Of course in reality that would be appointing McDonnell as Shadow Chancellor. But given how he stood as leader in the first place he was never going to appoint anyone else. They are little more than the vent and his dummy.
    On the contrary most Labour MPs were expecting him to appoint Angela Eagle as shadow chancellor by all accounts. They knew John McDonnell was his first choice but couldn't believe he would actually do it.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    HYUFD said:


    Impressions are normally formed of new leaders in the first few years, Cameron looked like a winner, Blair looked like a winner, Hague and IDS did not, Ed Miliband did not and Corbyn does not, that really is all there is too it, short of a depression he will not be PM and I doubt he will even be Labour leader by the 2020 election, instead it will probably be Hilary Benn. Night

    These impressions are very quickly formed - and unless you manage things properly, you are defined by others rather by you and your team. And Corbyn isn't managing things properly. At all.

    We have had 3 days where near enough every choice he has made has backfired to some extent.

    Some of that is unfair. Some of it is utterly justified.

    But Corbyn is going to be defined in the eyes of many, many, many voters by this initial period (coming on top of his 30 years in politics) - and it is not going to play to his (or Labour's) advantage.

    He was never going to find it easy. But he is making is much harder than he needs to.
    Is he capable of anything better?
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    EPG said:

    It's not really OK to judge that lady lawyer on their looks or to say that she must be ugly inside for asking not to be objectified by leering old men.

    Oh my, that's me well and truly slapped down for not spotting that she was a lady
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    AndyJS said:

    antifrank said:

    Not singing the national anthem isn't Jeremy Corbyn's worst mistake of his leadership so far.

    Although I'm not sure the majority of the public would agree, I can see your point. Of course in reality that would be appointing McDonnell as Shadow Chancellor. But given how he stood as leader in the first place he was never going to appoint anyone else. They are little more than the vent and his dummy.
    On the contrary most Labour MPs were expecting him to appoint Angela Eagle as shadow chancellor by all accounts. They knew John McDonnell was his first choice but couldn't believe he would actually do it.
    He's impossible to read. That makes him a loose canon/ cannon?
  • HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scathing assessment of Corbyn by a voter in Hartlepool on Newsnight 'If he cannot be bothered to put an effort into his own appearance why would he be bothered with the appearance of the country?'

    He looked fine. Honestly, I'm all for the Tories and the press going heavy on the guy, in some areas he sure deserves it, and regardless yes it is something that he has to get used to if he wants to be LoTo, but they are seriously turning me Corbyn over here.
    This was an average voter in working class Hartlepool, not the Tories, not the Sun, a voter in a seat with a Labour MP expressing his view of Corbyn. If he gets that reaction in a northern Labour seat I dread to think the reaction he will be getting in Midlands marginals and the South
    I accept ordinary people will feel the same, I was using it as a jumping off point to reference the general attacks from Tories and the media. I have no doubt the public will not like what Corbyn is selling, and by all means go in hard on him, but I just want them to tone it down a little - as the ordinary voter shows, you can flag these things up and the work does itself, you don't have to go in so hard on the pettier stuff, save that for his bigger demons.
    I am sorry, but this is the big leagues. Corbyn is putting himself forward to be PM of this country, if he did not want the Tories to throw the kitchen sink at him he should have stuck to running to be chairman of the committee running his allotment!
    You misunderstand - I don't object that they can do it, and I think Corbyn has to put up with it, it's the job after all. I just think tactically they can manage the same effect better.
    Anyway, the response of the voter was umprompted, Tory attacks or not Corbyn is doing their work for them
    Indeed, I've witnessed such itself. They don't need to overegg the pudding.
    Impressions are normally formed of new leaders in the first few years, Cameron looked like a winner, Blair looked like a winner, Hague and IDS did not, Ed Miliband did not and Corbyn does not, that really is all there is too it, short of a depression he will not be PM and I doubt he will even be Labour leader by the 2020 election, instead it will probably be Hilary Benn. Night
    Labour's compromise on the way to woman leader?
    Well Benn is a functioning politician, just. But so are a number of people.

  • NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 703
    MikeL said:

    NeilVW said:

    watford30 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Y0kel said:

    Cant see the big deal over Corbyn. He is a weak man who is likely to be brought down by the fact he isn't a leader and he doesn't handle scrutiny.

    Your rather less pathetic character at the Shadow Treasury, now he is an unpleasant problem like a petty drug dealer who occasionally likes to hang out with the big boys. Small time but not very nice with it.

    Was browsing a previous thread & followed a link to an interview with Messrs Corbyn & McDonnell, just before GE2015. Mr McDonnell said they don't believe in 'leaders'. That implies to me that the Labour party now has a committee as leader.
    The Labour representative on Newsnight was running with a line on Benefit Caps, contradicting what Corbyn suggested earlier. They really are in a mess.
    The Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary also didn't understand that people on Working Tax Credit are exempt from the cap.
    Which in itself seems crazy.

    If there is to be a Benefit cap of £23k, why should you be able to claim benefits of more than £23k on top of the wages you earn from working?

    If someone is on minimum wage (approx £12k) then a benefit cap of £23k would still allow them to pocket almost £35k (they will pay a bit of income tax and NI).

    Is that not enough? Why on earth does the Benefit cap not apply to people working?
    I assume the idea is the work incentive, to get people off their butts and into a job, so they can keep their London pad (it does mainly affect Londoners).
  • HYUFD said:


    Impressions are normally formed of new leaders in the first few years, Cameron looked like a winner, Blair looked like a winner, Hague and IDS did not, Ed Miliband did not and Corbyn does not, that really is all there is too it, short of a depression he will not be PM and I doubt he will even be Labour leader by the 2020 election, instead it will probably be Hilary Benn. Night

    These impressions are very quickly formed - and unless you manage things properly, you are defined by others rather by you and your team. And Corbyn isn't managing things properly. At all.

    We have had 3 days where near enough every choice he has made has backfired to some extent.

    Some of that is unfair. Some of it is utterly justified.

    But Corbyn is going to be defined in the eyes of many, many, many voters by this initial period (coming on top of his 30 years in politics) - and it is not going to play to his (or Labour's) advantage.

    He was never going to find it easy. But he is making is much harder than he needs to.
    Is he capable of anything better?
    Well he did no enough to nab two bags from Costa and not Starbucks. The latter would have had him crucified by his own left wing.
  • NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 703
    MikeL, just to add, in your example of someone on £12k pa, let's say it was a single mother over 18 with one child in Hackney. She would have to pay about £2k pa of the rent due to her earnings. She would also have to pay at least 15% of the council tax bill, probably more on those earnings.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    NeilVW said:

    MikeL said:

    NeilVW said:

    watford30 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Y0kel said:

    Cant see the big deal over Corbyn. He is a weak man who is likely to be brought down by the fact he isn't a leader and he doesn't handle scrutiny.

    Your rather less pathetic character at the Shadow Treasury, now he is an unpleasant problem like a petty drug dealer who occasionally likes to hang out with the big boys. Small time but not very nice with it.

    Was browsing a previous thread & followed a link to an interview with Messrs Corbyn & McDonnell, just before GE2015. Mr McDonnell said they don't believe in 'leaders'. That implies to me that the Labour party now has a committee as leader.
    The Labour representative on Newsnight was running with a line on Benefit Caps, contradicting what Corbyn suggested earlier. They really are in a mess.
    The Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary also didn't understand that people on Working Tax Credit are exempt from the cap.
    Which in itself seems crazy.

    If there is to be a Benefit cap of £23k, why should you be able to claim benefits of more than £23k on top of the wages you earn from working?

    If someone is on minimum wage (approx £12k) then a benefit cap of £23k would still allow them to pocket almost £35k (they will pay a bit of income tax and NI).

    Is that not enough? Why on earth does the Benefit cap not apply to people working?
    I assume the idea is the work incentive, to get people off their butts and into a job, so they can keep their London pad (it does mainly affect Londoners).
    I don't know the details of this particular issue, but at no point do you want a situation that, because a person is now working more, or has got a promotion, that they end up worse off than if they'd simply stayed un- or under-employed and on benefits.
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    edited September 2015
    On the topic of welfare:

    "...it has now been acknowledged that at least 700,000 claimants will not be on Universal Credit by the end of 2017."

    At this rate it'll finish just before the 2020 general election - provided we make it that far.

    Source:
    https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Universal-Credit-timetable/Universal-Credit-roll-out-so-far
  • AndyJS said:

    antifrank said:

    Not singing the national anthem isn't Jeremy Corbyn's worst mistake of his leadership so far.

    Although I'm not sure the majority of the public would agree, I can see your point. Of course in reality that would be appointing McDonnell as Shadow Chancellor. But given how he stood as leader in the first place he was never going to appoint anyone else. They are little more than the vent and his dummy.
    On the contrary most Labour MPs were expecting him to appoint Angela Eagle as shadow chancellor by all accounts. They knew John McDonnell was his first choice but couldn't believe he would actually do it.
    Not to mention pb-er's who'd backed Eagle at 8/1.
  • watford30 said:

    kle4 said:

    I've tried my best, but I can't get outraged by a lifelong Republican not singing God Save The Queen

    Agreed. I don't agree with him on his republicanism, but he swears an oath to the Queen to be an MP, he'll participate in various other of our rituals, he can have one thing at least to publicly demonstrate his stance without causing a fuss (as not swearing an oath so he can serve as an MP would do)

    As for not buttoning up your top button, as a regular wearer of ties since the age of 5 I can sympathise with why people might not do up their top button, especially those like Corbyn who aren't regular wearers of ties.
    One hour, that's all he had to do it for, to show respect towards thousands of people who put up with far, far worse.

    What an utter twunt.
    I thought his statement was impressive and showed a lot of respect towards to all those that kept Britain free from Nazi invasion.
    Yes - it read as sincere and heartfelt. Totally buried by his basic incompetence as a politician.
    His priggish selfishness also took the headlines away from the real stars of the show - the last of the Few.
    No, that would be the news media.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited September 2015
    [OT] An interesting angle on US GOP contender Ben Carson.
    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/09/the-terrible-movie-that-explains-ben-carsons-appeal-213143

    Edit: look at his Iowa speech [link from article] -- Carson has no tie and a pen in his shirt pocket, like, erm, Corbyn.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    AndyJS said:

    antifrank said:

    Not singing the national anthem isn't Jeremy Corbyn's worst mistake of his leadership so far.

    Although I'm not sure the majority of the public would agree, I can see your point. Of course in reality that would be appointing McDonnell as Shadow Chancellor. But given how he stood as leader in the first place he was never going to appoint anyone else. They are little more than the vent and his dummy.
    On the contrary most Labour MPs were expecting him to appoint Angela Eagle as shadow chancellor by all accounts. They knew John McDonnell was his first choice but couldn't believe he would actually do it.
    He's impossible to read. That makes him a loose canon/ cannon?
    Lol a loose canon - the C.oE is fullof em.
  • Carson has no tie and a pen in his shirt pocket, like, erm, Corbyn.

    Just what you want to be discussing about your glorious new leader on day 5 - his wardrobe......

    Looks like his Battle of Britain behavior has driven 'Poverty Denial' off all the front pages ex-the Morning Star......maybe just as well as he wasnt on the firmest of ground......

    http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-jeremy-corbyns-major-speech/21547
  • Carson has no tie and a pen in his shirt pocket, like, erm, Corbyn.

    Just what you want to be discussing about your glorious new leader on day 5 - his wardrobe......

    Looks like his Battle of Britain behavior has driven 'Poverty Denial' off all the front pages ex-the Morning Star......maybe just as well as he wasnt on the firmest of ground......

    http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-jeremy-corbyns-major-speech/21547
    Corbyn is not my leader but yes, it was bloody amateurish to blunder into this, in the light of the Foot duffel coat furore.
  • Carson has no tie and a pen in his shirt pocket, like, erm, Corbyn.

    Just what you want to be discussing about your glorious new leader on day 5 - his wardrobe......

    Looks like his Battle of Britain behavior has driven 'Poverty Denial' off all the front pages ex-the Morning Star......maybe just as well as he wasnt on the firmest of ground......

    http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-jeremy-corbyns-major-speech/21547
    Corbyn is not my leader but yes, it was bloody amateurish to blunder into this, in the light of the Foot duffel coat furore.
    Even the normally fairly sympathetic Indie is pretty unforgiving:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyns-vow-to-fight-tory-poverty-deniers-undermined-by-symbolic-blunders-10502739.html

    If he wants to get heard he really shouldn't be providing his opponents with such easy and obvious targets.

    Those pleading 'to have sung would have been hypocritical' ignore the obvious defence 'did it out of respect for the servicemen & women' - which would have shut his critics down more effectively - now this (essentially deeply trivial) 'will he sing or not' will dominate future such occasions . If Labour Party Policy is 'a republic', then fair enough, but it isnt, and he will be in no position to complain about others going off-message - he's leading by example....
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    edited September 2015
    The magic money tree that Corbyn keeps referencing from TaxResearch think-tank (EDIT: I was too generous, it's just a blog - not even worthy of the title thinktank) claiming that he can get billions by successfully collecting the tax gap...

    ...turns out to be a load of absolute twoddle. Just read the whole thing and I'm not impressed. At the top is states 'For the Public and Commercial Services Union' - so it clearly has a vested interest in stopping HMRC efficiencies and job cuts.

    It throws the word neoliberal in there for good measure too:

    It also seems that there was a desire when creating the new HMRC structure to
    significantly increase the influence of business on tax policy. This neoliberal
    approach, which presumes that business knows best on all issues because of the
    supposed influence of competition on its policies, is reflected in the composition of
    HMRC‟s non-executive board of directors, all of whom are drawn from big business
    and who include former partners at two of the largest firms of global accountants.

    It consistently moans that cutting HMRC staff will make the issue worse, despite providing no link to staffing levels and effectiveness. It even has the cheek to claim the most important policy to deal with the tax gap is exactly that - recruit moarr staffs.

    Seriously, read this document and try to defend it - I dare you.
    [http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Documents/PCSTaxGap2014Full.pdf]

    So what can be done about the tax gap?
    ...
    Lastly, and most importantly, a reversal of the cuts to staff in HMRC and at Companies House, taking on more staff at both to ensure that HMRC can collect the taxes the country so badly needs

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688
    MikeL said:

    Hilary Benn is a good tip for Lab leader - he has all the necessary personal qualities - ie looks, sounds, behaves in a sensible, calm and authoritative way.

    And he hasn't lost a leadership election already - so he can come in as a new prospect for leader.

    He's lost a deputy leadership election mind you. I can't see him becoming leader, but I do agree he's quite a sensible level-headed sort of person.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Meanwhile, on the government's 'precarious majority':

    The government has a working majority of 16. But today it managed to win a tricky vote in the House of Commons that its own MPs were threatening to rebel on, and that the DUP had said it wouldn’t help the government on. The measure was on tax credits, and the government got a majority of 35.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/isabel-hardman/2015/09/government-gets-majority-of-35-after-labour-whipping-shambles/

    https://twitter.com/herald_editor/status/644024581750149120
  • Pauly said:

    The magic money tree that Corbyn keeps referencing from TaxResearch think-tank (EDIT: I was too generous, it's just a blog - not even worthy of the title thinktank)

    Its a man in his shed......Richard Murphy.....Danny Blanchflower is a fan.....

  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited September 2015
    Benn is extremely levelheaded... he managed to avoid paying any IHT on his dads 5 million estate....how about that for being levelheaded..
  • Omnium said:

    MikeL said:

    Hilary Benn is a good tip for Lab leader - he has all the necessary personal qualities - ie looks, sounds, behaves in a sensible, calm and authoritative way.

    And he hasn't lost a leadership election already - so he can come in as a new prospect for leader.

    He's lost a deputy leadership election mind you. I can't see him becoming leader, but I do agree he's quite a sensible level-headed sort of person.

    Many moons ago when interviewing undergraduates I was warned of the 'Daisy in the cowpat' syndrome, when one passable candidate shines disproportionately after wading through so many dire ones.....
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 897

    Omnium said:

    MikeL said:

    Hilary Benn is a good tip for Lab leader - he has all the necessary personal qualities - ie looks, sounds, behaves in a sensible, calm and authoritative way.

    And he hasn't lost a leadership election already - so he can come in as a new prospect for leader.

    He's lost a deputy leadership election mind you. I can't see him becoming leader, but I do agree he's quite a sensible level-headed sort of person.

    Many moons ago when interviewing undergraduates I was warned of the 'Daisy in the cowpat' syndrome, when one passable candidate shines disproportionately after wading through so many dire ones.....
    Unfortunately they may end up with just a cowpat amongst cowpats.
  • Benn is extremely levelheaded... he managed to avoid paying any IHT on his dads 5 million estate....how about that for being levelheaded..

    Its one of those irregular verbs:

    We Labour politicians plan our tax affairs appropriately and efficiently
    Those LibDems avoid payng their fair share
    These evil baby eating Tories evade their responsibilities to society, snatching the food from the mouths of starving babies (why would Tories eat starving babies, wouldn't they prefer plump ones? - ed.)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BBCNormanS: Jeremy Corbyn will have offended and hurt many people by not singing National Antherm - shadow minister Kate Green @BBCr4today
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @rosschawkins: Green also makes clear what Labour's leader says on the welfare cap shouldn't be taken as Labour policy
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Scott_P said:

    @BBCNormanS: Jeremy Corbyn will have offended and hurt many people by not singing National Antherm - shadow minister Kate Green @BBCr4today

    If he had sung the anthem, he may have taken a little hit from those with republican leanings. But now, every time the anthem is played, the question will be will he sing?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @bbcnickrobinson: This "new politics" is fascinating. Shadow ministers come on air to chastise their leader & explain that what he says is not their policy.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Scott_P said:

    @bbcnickrobinson: This "new politics" is fascinating. Shadow ministers come on air to chastise their leader & explain that what he says is not their policy.

    Kate Green actually sounded quite sensible. Corbyn's shadow cabinet may not all be numpties.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Kate Green actually sounded quite sensible.

    ...while directly contradicting Corbyn.

    And therein lies the problem
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JoeWatts_: New shadow minister Kate Green torpedoes Corbyn's morning, contradicting her leader on benefits cap and criticizing him on anthem-gate.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Scott_P said:

    @rosschawkins: Green also makes clear what Labour's leader says on the welfare cap shouldn't be taken as Labour policy

    That is incredible for a shadow Minister to say. You can extrapolate that to say ignore Corbyn, They are in a mess.
  • Scott_P said:

    @rosschawkins: Green also makes clear what Labour's leader says on the welfare cap shouldn't be taken as Labour policy

    Whether Corbyn personally agrees with the words in the national anthem or not is irrelevant. It is the national anthem of the country he hopes to lead as Prime Minister. And this was a state occasion.

    To allow himself to make such a personal statement of his feelings about it is a sign of either narcissism, poor judgement or both. It's not about him.

    (And don't give me that hypocrisy crap: singing along to the national anthem does not compromise your integrity. It's about respect.)

    There is a time and place that he can express his views and his policy on the monarchy, and that was absolutely not the one.
  • Scott_P said:

    @bbcnickrobinson: This "new politics" is fascinating. Shadow ministers come on air to chastise their leader & explain that what he says is not their policy.

    Kate Green actually sounded quite sensible. Corbyn's shadow cabinet may not all be numpties.
    Possibly not but it'll make Corbyn's position extremely difficult at PMQs - possibly not today when Cameron will probably be reasonably civil but once the gloves will come off as the novelty of Corbyn loses its sheen.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @theJeremyVine: The @CCHQPress couldn’t even buy headlines like they’re hearing today. Unbelievable. #Corbyn
  • Omnium said:

    MikeL said:

    Hilary Benn is a good tip for Lab leader - he has all the necessary personal qualities - ie looks, sounds, behaves in a sensible, calm and authoritative way.

    And he hasn't lost a leadership election already - so he can come in as a new prospect for leader.

    He's lost a deputy leadership election mind you. I can't see him becoming leader, but I do agree he's quite a sensible level-headed sort of person.
    Benn might be a good shout for next leader were the election now. The big problem with him going forward is that he's going to be compromised with Corbyn's nutjob foreign policy.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @bbclaurak: Corbyn's warmup for PMQ s is his new team disagreeing with him - in 'old politics' that's v dangerous, sustainable in the new world?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,963
    edited September 2015
    New Thread New Thread
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    Scott_P said:

    @rosschawkins: Green also makes clear what Labour's leader says on the welfare cap shouldn't be taken as Labour policy

    Whether Corbyn personally agrees with the words in the national anthem or not is irrelevant. It is the national anthem of the country he hopes to lead as Prime Minister. And this was a state occasion.

    To allow himself to make such a personal statement of his feelings about it is a sign of either narcissism, poor judgement or both. It's not about him.

    (And don't give me that hypocrisy crap: singing along to the national anthem does not compromise your integrity. It's about respect.)

    There is a time and place that he can express his views and his policy on the monarchy, and that was absolutely not the one.
    It basically all comes down to the fact that he shouldn't be there and didn't want to be there. Every time you hear a suggestion that he is "looking to do things differently" (eg. PMQs) the motivation is clearly not because he wants to change the system for the system's sake, but because he wants the job of LOTO to change his life as little as possible.

    I think where people are "defending" him on things like the anthem, it is not because they think what he is doing is appropriate. It is just what he is doing is entirely consistent with his electoral pitch to be Labour leader. So the fact that it has turned out to be utterly inappropriate is not an indictment on him (other than he didn't pull out when it began to become clear he had a chance of victory), so much as an indictment of the fact that he was elected.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Scott_P said:

    @bbclaurak: Corbyn's warmup for PMQ s is his new team disagreeing with him - in 'old politics' that's v dangerous, sustainable in the new world?

    How Labour yearn for Ed and his blank sheet of paper!
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    Scott_P said:

    @bbcnickrobinson: This "new politics" is fascinating. Shadow ministers come on air to chastise their leader & explain that what he says is not their policy.

    Kate Green actually sounded quite sensible. Corbyn's shadow cabinet may not all be numpties.
    Possibly not but it'll make Corbyn's position extremely difficult at PMQs - possibly not today when Cameron will probably be reasonably civil but once the gloves will come off as the novelty of Corbyn loses its sheen.
    Sometimes being civil has even greater chance of making one's opponent uncomfortable. Simply and clearly outlining why he is so unsuitable as leader will be enough.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,765
    Is Kate Green in the shadow cabinet? She is the shadow minister for women and equalities. That is part of the role now held by Nicky Morgan who is of course Secretary of State for Education and faces the ever so daunting Lucy Powell. There is an undersecretary for these things but that is obviously not a cabinet post.

    If Corbyn has managed to get a majority of women in his shadow cabinet by having 2 members facing one cabinet minister is that not just a little contrived?

    I did not hear the interview but it does not seem at all unlikely that we will have a fairly consistent picture of shadow ministers contradicting Corbyn until Labour policy is officially changed.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,963
    edited September 2015
    DavidL said:

    Is Kate Green in the shadow cabinet? She is the shadow minister for women and equalities. That is part of the role now held by Nicky Morgan who is of course Secretary of State for Education and faces the ever so daunting Lucy Powell. There is an undersecretary for these things but that is obviously not a cabinet post.

    If Corbyn has managed to get a majority of women in his shadow cabinet by having 2 members facing one cabinet minister is that not just a little contrived?

    I did not hear the interview but it does not seem at all unlikely that we will have a fairly consistent picture of shadow ministers contradicting Corbyn until Labour policy is officially changed.

    They're giving Corbyn the same loyalty Corbyn gave past leaders. You can't have a serial rebel as leader. That's the lesson we learned with IDS
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited September 2015
    DavidL said:

    If Corbyn has managed to get a majority of women in his shadow cabinet by having 2 members facing one cabinet minister is that not just a little contrived?

    Not only that but he's got more women without porfolio who aren't in proper cabinet jobs which bulks out the numbers further.

    Shadow cabinet great offices of state are 100% male but the shad cab is majority female. Read into that what you will.
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