The most telling thing about Corbyn's relationship with Abbott is not that they dated , its where they went on holiday. Tells you all you need to know.
Labour's problems are exactly the same as those of social democratic parties all over Europe. The gap between the views of their traditional supporters and the metropolitan types who dominate the membership are rapidly becoming unbridgeable so that both groups cannot be satisfied at the same time.
The thing with the Labour Party is that the Metropolitan types don't actually dominate the membership, they only ever dominated the PLP.
In going over the top in their attacks on Corbyn, his opponents will only serve to solidify his position – especially among Labour members that voted for him.
No! Really?
No, Johnson's time has come & gone - Labour are hardly going to depose one useless old duffer to replace him with another one.....
This is the Stupid Party we are talking about. The only thing you can be 100% sure on with regards to the Labour leadership is that Angela Eagle will never be voted in.
Here voice alone would reduce Labour % to <20. She is absolutely terrible on camera IMHO.. </p>
Johnson @ 65 seems too old to me. Similarly Hilary Benn @ 61?
I'm thinking:
1 - Women. 2 - People not offensive to the great unwashed crowd of new members, who will be there for some time. 3 - Not associated with Blair / Brown in a senior or close role. 4 - Pre-2015 intake (means not Clive Lewis).
I can see Tom Watson being Acting Leader, but not the permanent Leader.
Johnson @ 65 seems too old to me. Similarly Hilary Benn @ 61?
I'm thinking:
1 - Women. 2 - People not offensive to the great unwashed crowd of new members, who will be there for some time. 3 - Not associated with Blair / Brown in a senior or close role. 4 - Pre-2015 intake (means not Clive Lewis).
I can see Tom Watson being Acting Leader, but not the permanent Leader.
Can't say I am bothered by the Corbyn / Abbott story.
That really is a matter for the parties concerned and any partners / family directly affected by it.
Doesn't bother me one jot, aside from a little 'euugh!' factor that is common to all such stories.
It may cause problems for others in the shadow cabinet though, if they think Abbott (rightly or wrongly) is getting special treatment from Corbyn.
Which it could be argued she already is, as she's been massively over-promoted compared to her talent.
That is what will continue to do corrosive damage to the pair of them. The perception of 'special treatment' is what will matter - whether or not there is any truth to it.
It all builds on the problems of the past few days - which, in part, can be blamed on not having the slightest clue about press management.
If you aren't in control of your own message, you will be defined by your opponents (mainly, at this stage, in the press and on the Labour backbenches)
The entire Shadow Cabinet will sink with Corbyn's ship.
They did not with IDS it would be Benn
IDS was out his depth and jettisoned for failure.
Corbyn is despised. That carries a baggage which will tarnish all who journey beside him.
Modernisers like Maude despised IDS
I'm sure there were many more, dozens perhaps.
But Corbyn takes this to another level. The man was struggling to find 30 people who were willing to work alongside him for £50k a year. That demonstrates a hell of a lot of loathing.
In going over the top in their attacks on Corbyn, his opponents will only serve to solidify his position – especially among Labour members that voted for him.
No! Really?
No, Johnson's time has come & gone - Labour are hardly going to depose one useless old duffer to replace him with another one.....
This is the Stupid Party we are talking about.
Surely that's the Tory Party?
Labour looks more like the 'Catatonic State of Befuddlement Party' at the moment
It's early but .... The next Labour PM may not even be a gleam in Jeremy Corbyn's and Diane Abbott's eyes ....
PB's reaction to the Corbyn Abbott dalliance reminds me of the embarrassment that children have when they realise their parents actually once had sex, let alone the fact they might still be doing so !!
Politicians and sex is however always a titter filled event - Major and Edwina, Mellorphant and the Chelsea strip, Paddypantsdown, Soames wardrobe key, Robin Cook's airport divorce and now the delicious Corbyn Abbott GDR sex fest.
Can't say I am bothered by the Corbyn / Abbott story.
That really is a matter for the parties concerned and any partners / family directly affected by it.
Doesn't bother me one jot, aside from a little 'euugh!' factor that is common to all such stories.
It may cause problems for others in the shadow cabinet though, if they think Abbott (rightly or wrongly) is getting special treatment from Corbyn.
Which it could be argued she already is, as she's been massively over-promoted compared to her talent.
Quite so...a talentless hypocrite who sent her son to private school whist championing state schools and who thinks black mothers go the extra mile in comparison to white mothers.
It's early but .... The next Labour PM may not even be a gleam in Jeremy Corbyn's and Diane Abbott's eyes ....
PB's reaction to the Corbyn Abbott dalliance reminds me of the embarrassment that children have when they realise their parents actually once had sex, let alone the fact they might still be doing so !!
Politicians and sex is however always a titter filled event - Major and Edwina, Mellorphant and the Chelsea strip, Paddypantsdown, Soames wardrobe key, Robin Cook's airport divorce and now the delicious Corbyn Abbott GDR sex fest.
I agree that Angela Eagle is not LOTT material but could she be the Sir Geoffrey Howe who knifes Corbyn publicly and brings about his downfall? Corbyn has p*ssed off the Sisterhood and she is the most senior woman.
It's early but .... The next Labour PM may not even be a gleam in Jeremy Corbyn's and Diane Abbott's eyes ....
PB's reaction to the Corbyn Abbott dalliance reminds me of the embarrassment that children have when they realise their parents actually once had sex, let alone the fact they might still be doing so !!
Politicians and sex is however always a titter filled event - Major and Edwina, Mellorphant and the Chelsea strip, Paddypantsdown, Soames wardrobe key, Robin Cook's airport divorce and now the delicious Corbyn Abbott GDR sex fest.
Was Diane Jeremy's bit on the side-car...?
Did that Rolls Royce of GDR car making - the Wartburg have reclining seats?
From Wiki : edit :
From the 1950s, Corbyn/Abbott (Wartburg) had a three-cylinder two-stroke engine with only seven major moving parts (three pistons, three connecting rods and one crankshaft).
Can't say I am bothered by the Corbyn / Abbott story.
That really is a matter for the parties concerned and any partners / family directly affected by it.
Doesn't bother me one jot, aside from a little 'euugh!' factor that is common to all such stories.
It may cause problems for others in the shadow cabinet though, if they think Abbott (rightly or wrongly) is getting special treatment from Corbyn.
Which it could be argued she already is, as she's been massively over-promoted compared to her talent.
In mad Jezza world he probably promoted her because he believes she has great strengths and can help to create and solidify the New Socialist Labour Party.
But because anyone else with a pulse sees her as comical at best and useless verging on harmful at worst, they can only draw the conclusion that she was promoted for some nepotistic reason.
Again, it's lose-lose for Jezza so chalk it up to yet another day at the office in his bonkers new world.
I would have thought Yvette Cooper would be the consensus candidate of the parliamentary party if they knifed Corbyn and selected only one option to be put to the membership. She's in touch with both wings of the party, is competent, and is a woman, ticking a lot of boxes.
However, if I was the Left of the party, I would focus on getting 35 MPs to nominate Corbyn again. He already has 17 (can someone confirm?), so they just need another 17 from the coming selections process.
I also don't think the comparison between Labour 2017 and the Conservatives in 2003 make sense. For a start, the Conservatives were never that right wing in 2001: we just had an unpalatable choice between IDS and Ken Clarke. Labour, on the other hand, chose Corbyn by a huge majority despite several alternatives. Secondly, the Conservatives had a tiny membership in 2001, so the growth in centrists by 2003 had a big impact. Labour, on the other hand, is two thirds hard left on a huge membership, meaning it will be very difficult for new moderates to make much difference.
In going over the top in their attacks on Corbyn, his opponents will only serve to solidify his position – especially among Labour members that voted for him.
No! Really?
No, Johnson's time has come & gone - Labour are hardly going to depose one useless old duffer to replace him with another one.....
This is the Stupid Party we are talking about. The only thing you can be 100% sure on with regards to the Labour leadership is that Angela Eagle will never be voted in.
Here voice alone would reduce Labour % to <20. She is absolutely terrible on camera IMHO.. </p>
Eagle turned and made a massive scowl towards Nigel Dodds yesterday at PMQ's, as he 'dared' to question the PM about Corbyn's appointment of McDonnell. Highly entertaining.
It's early but .... The next Labour PM may not even be a gleam in Jeremy Corbyn's and Diane Abbott's eyes ....
PB's reaction to the Corbyn Abbott dalliance reminds me of the embarrassment that children have when they realise their parents actually once had sex, let alone the fact they might still be doing so !!
Politicians and sex is however always a titter filled event - Major and Edwina, Mellorphant and the Chelsea strip, Paddypantsdown, Soames wardrobe key, Robin Cook's airport divorce and now the delicious Corbyn Abbott GDR sex fest.
Was Diane Jeremy's bit on the side-car...?
Did that Rolls Royce of GDR car making - the Wartburg have reclining seats?
From Wiki : edit :
From the 1950s, Corbyn/Abbott (Wartburg) had a three-cylinder two-stroke engine with only seven major moving parts (three pistons, three connecting rods and one crankshaft).
All (extreme) LHD.
Even two strokes is more than I want to dwell on...
To mark the centenary of their death in WW1 Speaker Bercow reads out the names of four sitting HoC members who perished in action during September and October 1915.
Whilst being no-Guardianista, even I'd be pissed off at the way Corbyn and McDonnell pretended that DfID was more senior than SCoE. It's just insulting the intelligence of the sisterhood.
I agree that Angela Eagle is not LOTT material but could she be the Sir Geoffrey Howe who knifes Corbyn publicly and brings about his downfall? Corbyn has p*ssed off the Sisterhood and she is the most senior woman.
"What if the mega-rich just want rocket ships to escape the Earth they destroy?"
"Which raises the question: are they just gearing up to wash their hands of the planet and leave the rest of us to clean up? By pushing outward while ignoring the problems it causes back on the home turf, are they effectively creating a galactic upper class that rests on the backs of the earthbound? "
The next leader may well not lead Labour into the election, especially if they are a greybeard unifier such as Johnson, Benn or Harman (who I've backed at 50/1).
Johnson in particular would suffer from the defect of him having said - in as many words - that he didn't think he'd be up to it. (Maybe he would be; his modesty does him credit but it would be used against him.)
If anyone hasn't read Johnson's childhood autobiography, This Boy, I heartily recommend it. It's very moving.
In going over the top in their attacks on Corbyn, his opponents will only serve to solidify his position – especially among Labour members that voted for him.
No! Really?
No, Johnson's time has come & gone - Labour are hardly going to depose one useless old duffer to replace him with another one.....
This is the Stupid Party we are talking about. The only thing you can be 100% sure on with regards to the Labour leadership is that Angela Eagle will never be voted in.
Here voice alone would reduce Labour % to <20. She is absolutely terrible on camera IMHO.. </p>
Eagle turned and made a massive scowl towards Nigel Dodds yesterday at PMQ's, as he 'dared' to question the PM about Corbyn's appointment of McDonnell. Highly entertaining.
So was it Corbyn's romantic past with Abbott that caused him to ignore her blatant racism when appointing her to the shadow cabinet? Or was it just another issue where Corbyn has double standards depending on who is committing the sin?
What I find most surprising about all this is that they did a road trip around the GDR in the 1970s and still maintained their socialist views. You would have to be truly blinded by ideology to see the tip that the GDR was, compare it to the FRG, and conclude socialism was the better system.
Hills go 4/6 Jezza doesn't kneel and 11/10 he does. The 11/10 looks value, but DYOR.
I wonder if ER might do him the kindness of excusing him from kneeling [though this might well not leak]? Perhaps PBers who know her better can advise?
"What if the mega-rich just want rocket ships to escape the Earth they destroy?"
"Which raises the question: are they just gearing up to wash their hands of the planet and leave the rest of us to clean up? By pushing outward while ignoring the problems it causes back on the home turf, are they effectively creating a galactic upper class that rests on the backs of the earthbound? "
Where does the Guardian find these people? It reminds me of the Harry Enfield & Friends sketch from the 1990s, where an angry man would hypothesise about celebrities doing rude things, and then get angry at them about it.
It's early but .... The next Labour PM may not even be a gleam in Jeremy Corbyn's and Diane Abbott's eyes ....
PB's reaction to the Corbyn Abbott dalliance reminds me of the embarrassment that children have when they realise their parents actually once had sex, let alone the fact they might still be doing so !!
Politicians and sex is however always a titter filled event - Major and Edwina, Mellorphant and the Chelsea strip, Paddypantsdown, Soames wardrobe key, Robin Cook's airport divorce and now the delicious Corbyn Abbott GDR sex fest.
Was Diane Jeremy's bit on the side-car...?
Did that Rolls Royce of GDR car making - the Wartburg have reclining seats?
From Wiki : edit :
From the 1950s, Corbyn/Abbott (Wartburg) had a three-cylinder two-stroke engine with only seven major moving parts (three pistons, three connecting rods and one crankshaft).
All (extreme) LHD.
Even two strokes is more than I want to dwell on...
Indeed ... although on the up (and down) side those of us with shares in mind bleach are surely a enjoying a financial post coital fag.
So was it Corbyn's romantic past with Abbott that caused him to ignore her blatant racism when appointing her to the shadow cabinet? Or was it just another issue where Corbyn has double standards depending on who is committing the sin?
What I find most surprising about all this is that they did a road trip around the GDR in the 1970s and still maintained their socialist views. You would have to be truly blinded by ideology to see the tip that the GDR was, compare it to the FRG, and conclude socialism was the better system.
Pretty obvious they were being trained as sleeper agents.
Who was allowed into the GDR at that time anyway ?
In going over the top in their attacks on Corbyn, his opponents will only serve to solidify his position – especially among Labour members that voted for him.
No! Really?
No, Johnson's time has come & gone - Labour are hardly going to depose one useless old duffer to replace him with another one.....
This is the Stupid Party we are talking about. The only thing you can be 100% sure on with regards to the Labour leadership is that Angela Eagle will never be voted in.
Here voice alone would reduce Labour % to <20. She is absolutely terrible on camera IMHO.. </p>
Eagle turned and made a massive scowl towards Nigel Dodds yesterday at PMQ's, as he 'dared' to question the PM about Corbyn's appointment of McDonnell. Highly entertaining.
It was when someone behind her very volubly said "hear hear" to Nigel Dodds' question about condemning, not condoning terrorists. I mean of all the things to take exception to she didn't even have the nous to realise that 99% of her party's MPs and 99.9% of the country support Dodds' point but she turned round to scold a Lab MP who articulated that support.
So was it Corbyn's romantic past with Abbott that caused him to ignore her blatant racism when appointing her to the shadow cabinet? Or was it just another issue where Corbyn has double standards depending on who is committing the sin?
What I find most surprising about all this is that they did a road trip around the GDR in the 1970s and still maintained their socialist views. You would have to be truly blinded by ideology to see the tip that the GDR was, compare it to the FRG, and conclude socialism was the better system.
Pretty obvious they were being trained as sleeper agents.
Who was allowed into the GDR at that time anyway ?
That would explain their current friendliness with Russia.
Johnson @ 65 seems too old to me. Similarly Hilary Benn @ 61?
I'm thinking:
1 - Women. 2 - People not offensive to the great unwashed crowd of new members, who will be there for some time. 3 - Not associated with Blair / Brown in a senior or close role. 4 - Pre-2015 intake (means not Clive Lewis).
I can see Tom Watson being Acting Leader, but not the permanent Leader.
So was it Corbyn's romantic past with Abbott that caused him to ignore her blatant racism when appointing her to the shadow cabinet? Or was it just another issue where Corbyn has double standards depending on who is committing the sin?
What I find most surprising about all this is that they did a road trip around the GDR in the 1970s and still maintained their socialist views. You would have to be truly blinded by ideology to see the tip that the GDR was, compare it to the FRG, and conclude socialism was the better system.
Pretty obvious they were being trained as sleeper agents.
Not too sure sleeping was high on the priority list during the GDRgasm
The most telling thing about Corbyn's relationship with Abbott is not that they dated , its where they went on holiday. Tells you all you need to know.
There is that.
Amusing little story, years back a friend of mine whose father worked in a sensitive position decided to visit East Berlin... you can imagine the alarm bells that started ringing.
It's early but .... The next Labour PM may not even be a gleam in Jeremy Corbyn's and Diane Abbott's eyes ....
PB's reaction to the Corbyn Abbott dalliance reminds me of the embarrassment that children have when they realise their parents actually once had sex, let alone the fact they might still be doing so !!
Politicians and sex is however always a titter filled event - Major and Edwina, Mellorphant and the Chelsea strip, Paddypantsdown, Soames wardrobe key, Robin Cook's airport divorce and now the delicious Corbyn Abbott GDR sex fest.
It's early but .... The next Labour PM may not even be a gleam in Jeremy Corbyn's and Diane Abbott's eyes ....
PB's reaction to the Corbyn Abbott dalliance reminds me of the embarrassment that children have when they realise their parents actually once had sex, let alone the fact they might still be doing so !!
Politicians and sex is however always a titter filled event - Major and Edwina, Mellorphant and the Chelsea strip, Paddypantsdown, Soames wardrobe key, Robin Cook's airport divorce and now the delicious Corbyn Abbott GDR sex fest.
Was Diane Jeremy's bit on the side-car...?
Did that Rolls Royce of GDR car making - the Wartburg have reclining seats?
From Wiki : edit :
From the 1950s, Corbyn/Abbott (Wartburg) had a three-cylinder two-stroke engine with only seven major moving parts (three pistons, three connecting rods and one crankshaft).
Labour's problems are exactly the same as those of social democratic parties all over Europe. The gap between the views of their traditional supporters and the metropolitan types who dominate the membership are rapidly becoming unbridgeable so that both groups cannot be satisfied at the same time.
The thing with the Labour Party is that the Metropolitan types don't actually dominate the membership, they only ever dominated the PLP.
The membership don't on the whole share the same values as traditional Labour voters outside big cities.
So was it Corbyn's romantic past with Abbott that caused him to ignore her blatant racism when appointing her to the shadow cabinet? Or was it just another issue where Corbyn has double standards depending on who is committing the sin?
What I find most surprising about all this is that they did a road trip around the GDR in the 1970s and still maintained their socialist views. You would have to be truly blinded by ideology to see the tip that the GDR was, compare it to the FRG, and conclude socialism was the better system.
You forget.
They came from Britain in the 1970s.
GDR would have been cleaner and greener without undeveloped bomb sites and buildings crumbling all around you**.
No doubt the GDR was a grim place compared to many in the world. But compared to 1970s Britain it was Utopia.
So was it Corbyn's romantic past with Abbott that caused him to ignore her blatant racism when appointing her to the shadow cabinet? Or was it just another issue where Corbyn has double standards depending on who is committing the sin?
What I find most surprising about all this is that they did a road trip around the GDR in the 1970s and still maintained their socialist views. You would have to be truly blinded by ideology to see the tip that the GDR was, compare it to the FRG, and conclude socialism was the better system.
According to Mr. T's Twitter feed, the BBC edited footage of the migrants attacking Hungarian defences to remove shouts of "Allahu akbar". That's plain dodgy.
So was it Corbyn's romantic past with Abbott that caused him to ignore her blatant racism when appointing her to the shadow cabinet? Or was it just another issue where Corbyn has double standards depending on who is committing the sin?
What I find most surprising about all this is that they did a road trip around the GDR in the 1970s and still maintained their socialist views. You would have to be truly blinded by ideology to see the tip that the GDR was, compare it to the FRG, and conclude socialism was the better system.
You forget.
They came from Britain in the 1970s.
GDR would have been cleaner and greener without undeveloped bomb sites and buildings crumbling all around you**.
No doubt the GDR was a grim place compared to many in the world. But compared to 1970s Britain it was Utopia.
You sure? I'm pretty confident that Bomber command and 8th Air force spent a great deal of time and effort rearranging the street layouts of what became GDR.
As an aside why do undemocratic toilets of countries always have democratic in their name?
So was it Corbyn's romantic past with Abbott that caused him to ignore her blatant racism when appointing her to the shadow cabinet? Or was it just another issue where Corbyn has double standards depending on who is committing the sin?
What I find most surprising about all this is that they did a road trip around the GDR in the 1970s and still maintained their socialist views. You would have to be truly blinded by ideology to see the tip that the GDR was, compare it to the FRG, and conclude socialism was the better system.
No doubt the GDR was a grim place compared to many in the world. But compared to 1970s Britain it was Utopia.
I think your GDR comparison timeline should be 1984.
In the early 80s I went on a study tour of the Soviet Union with the University. It would be fair to say most of the participants were committed communists who genuinely believed they had seen the future. Most had been to East Germany and were convinced that it was greatly superior to Western Germany which was inevitably going to collapse along with the rest of the west.
As someone who had seen the Berlin wall in the 1970s as well as the fences built across the beautiful Harz mountains like an ugly scar facing in the way with mines, barbed wire and armed sentries on patrol to prevent their people from leaving I thought this was completely absurd and some lively debates ensued but what it showed was that even seeing it for yourself is not enough to change opinions if your mind is closed. That is at least one of Corbyn's problems.
- 41% of 2015 Lab voters think Lab are unlikely to win the 2020 GE with Corbyn in charge (vs. 35% likely) - He has much more chance of winning votes from the LDs than UKIP. 30% of 2015 LDs would trust him to take the right decisions on immigration vs. 5% of UKIP voters
So was it Corbyn's romantic past with Abbott that caused him to ignore her blatant racism when appointing her to the shadow cabinet? Or was it just another issue where Corbyn has double standards depending on who is committing the sin?
What I find most surprising about all this is that they did a road trip around the GDR in the 1970s and still maintained their socialist views. You would have to be truly blinded by ideology to see the tip that the GDR was, compare it to the FRG, and conclude socialism was the better system.
So was it Corbyn's romantic past with Abbott that caused him to ignore her blatant racism when appointing her to the shadow cabinet? Or was it just another issue where Corbyn has double standards depending on who is committing the sin?
What I find most surprising about all this is that they did a road trip around the GDR in the 1970s and still maintained their socialist views. You would have to be truly blinded by ideology to see the tip that the GDR was, compare it to the FRG, and conclude socialism was the better system.
You forget.
They came from Britain in the 1970s.
GDR would have been cleaner and greener without undeveloped bomb sites and buildings crumbling all around you**.
No doubt the GDR was a grim place compared to many in the world. But compared to 1970s Britain it was Utopia.
I went to the GDR in1976 (unaacompanied by either Jeremy or Diane, I hasten to add).
It was no Utopia. Cheese-cloth and Oxford bags couldn't be had for love nor money, and the only prog rock you could get was on dodgy cassettes that had had been recorded over a dozen times.
Although it was a damned site better than Czechoslovakia, which was still recently occupied by the Soviets and being plundered.
So was it Corbyn's romantic past with Abbott that caused him to ignore her blatant racism when appointing her to the shadow cabinet? Or was it just another issue where Corbyn has double standards depending on who is committing the sin?
What I find most surprising about all this is that they did a road trip around the GDR in the 1970s and still maintained their socialist views. You would have to be truly blinded by ideology to see the tip that the GDR was, compare it to the FRG, and conclude socialism was the better system.
You forget.
They came from Britain in the 1970s.
GDR would have been cleaner and greener without undeveloped bomb sites and buildings crumbling all around you**.
No doubt the GDR was a grim place compared to many in the world. But compared to 1970s Britain it was Utopia.
You sure? I'm pretty confident that Bomber command and 8th Air force spent a great deal of time and effort rearranging the street layouts of what became GDR.
Yes but by the 1970s the GDR had rebuilt with brand spanking new (and at the time in good order) blocks of flats. The UK was left with huge swathes of our major cities in rubble. Youtube some videos from the 70s in any British city of your choice.
According to Mr. T's Twitter feed, the BBC edited footage of the migrants attacking Hungarian defences to remove shouts of "Allahu akbar". That's plain dodgy.
If true, then that's exceptionally poor by the BBC.
But I doubt it: there must have been loads of footage they could have used without the chanting. Easier to use 'cleaner' footage than to clean dirty footage.
So was it Corbyn's romantic past with Abbott that caused him to ignore her blatant racism when appointing her to the shadow cabinet? Or was it just another issue where Corbyn has double standards depending on who is committing the sin?
What I find most surprising about all this is that they did a road trip around the GDR in the 1970s and still maintained their socialist views. You would have to be truly blinded by ideology to see the tip that the GDR was, compare it to the FRG, and conclude socialism was the better system.
You forget.
They came from Britain in the 1970s.
GDR would have been cleaner and greener without undeveloped bomb sites and buildings crumbling all around you**.
No doubt the GDR was a grim place compared to many in the world. But compared to 1970s Britain it was Utopia.
You sure? I'm pretty confident that Bomber command and 8th Air force spent a great deal of time and effort rearranging the street layouts of what became GDR.
Yes but by the 1970s the GDR had rebuilt with brand spanking new (and at the time in good order) blocks of flats. The UK was left with huge swathes of our major cities in rubble. Youtube some videos from the 70s in any British city of your choice.
Nonsense. Great chunks of the GDR remained bomb sites. There were plenty in East Berlin at the time of reunification with the West.
In the early 80s I went on a study tour of the Soviet Union with the University. It would be fair to say most of the participants were committed communists who genuinely believed they had seen the future. Most had been to East Germany and were convinced that it was greatly superior to Western Germany which was inevitably going to collapse along with the rest of the west.
As someone who had seen the Berlin wall in the 1970s as well as the fences built across the beautiful Harz mountains like an ugly scar facing in the way with mines, barbed wire and armed sentries on patrol to prevent their people from leaving I thought this was completely absurd and some lively debates ensued but what it showed was that even seeing it for yourself is not enough to change opinions if your mind is closed. That is at least one of Corbyn's problems.
I had an option to go to Russia in 1988 when I was 15. For various reasons I couldn't go, but wish I had. It would have been fascinating to see Moscow (or the bits they let us see) at that pivotal moment before the fall.
Here's a question: when I lived in London from 1991 to 1995, there were still a few places you could, if you looked carefully, find bomb sites (from memory the Stepney / Bow areas).
Are there any areas of WWII damage left now, or have they all been redeveloped or re-redeveloped?
So was it Corbyn's romantic past with Abbott that caused him to ignore her blatant racism when appointing her to the shadow cabinet? Or was it just another issue where Corbyn has double standards depending on who is committing the sin?
What I find most surprising about all this is that they did a road trip around the GDR in the 1970s and still maintained their socialist views. You would have to be truly blinded by ideology to see the tip that the GDR was, compare it to the FRG, and conclude socialism was the better system.
You forget.
They came from Britain in the 1970s.
GDR would have been cleaner and greener without undeveloped bomb sites and buildings crumbling all around you**.
No doubt the GDR was a grim place compared to many in the world. But compared to 1970s Britain it was Utopia.
You sure? I'm pretty confident that Bomber command and 8th Air force spent a great deal of time and effort rearranging the street layouts of what became GDR.
Yes but by the 1970s the GDR had rebuilt with brand spanking new (and at the time in good order) blocks of flats. The UK was left with huge swathes of our major cities in rubble. Youtube some videos from the 70s in any British city of your choice.
Nonsense. Great chunks of the GDR remained bomb sites. There were plenty in East Berlin at the time of reunification with the West.
I've not seen evidence of this but obviously it may have been suppressed. I do recall a documentary some years back that indicated that areas were just paved over (a huge part of East Berlin they couldn't decide what to do with. That in itself would look far better than the rubble strewn wastelands throughout British cities (not just from bomb sites but from urban clearances too).
It is also likely that the areas tourists were allowed to go were pretty much free from this (similar to the way they had specific shops for tourists in most of Eastern Europe).
The main point I was making was not about the GDR, it was about the UK, which was in a very sorry state in the 1970s and had failed to make the sort of progress that practically every other Western Democracy had made since WW2 (and again, I am aware the Marshall Plan made a big difference in many European countries to this).
So was it Corbyn's romantic past with Abbott that caused him to ignore her blatant racism when appointing her to the shadow cabinet? Or was it just another issue where Corbyn has double standards depending on who is committing the sin?
What I find most surprising about all this is that they did a road trip around the GDR in the 1970s and still maintained their socialist views. You would have to be truly blinded by ideology to see the tip that the GDR was, compare it to the FRG, and conclude socialism was the better system.
You forget.
They came from Britain in the 1970s.
GDR would have been cleaner and greener without undeveloped bomb sites and buildings crumbling all around you**.
No doubt the GDR was a grim place compared to many in the world. But compared to 1970s Britain it was Utopia.
GDR was excellent for systematic doping of athletes and surveillance techniques, apart from those it was inferior to 1970's Britain.
It's early but .... The next Labour PM may not even be a gleam in Jeremy Corbyn's and Diane Abbott's eyes ....
Discussing Ugandan Affairs Changing Trains at Baker Street....
The things you learn on PB.com!
Change at Baker Street is quite a different euphemism than Ugandan affairs or the proposed East German motorcycle trip.
It has a very specific meaning.
Baker St is not the only stop that you can change from the Hammersmith and City line to the Bakerloo though... Paddington & Edgware Rd are on both as well
It's early but .... The next Labour PM may not even be a gleam in Jeremy Corbyn's and Diane Abbott's eyes ....
Discussing Ugandan Affairs Changing Trains at Baker Street....
The things you learn on PB.com!
Change at Baker Street is quite a different euphemism than Ugandan affairs or the proposed East German motorcycle trip.
It has a very specific meaning.
Baker St is not the only stop that you can change from the Hammersmith and City line to the Bakerloo though... Paddington & Edgware Rd are on both as well
Comments
Sounds like Carly Fiorina had a reasonable GOP debate last night. She's shortened to 12 on Betfair from around 20 since I last looked.
That really is a matter for the parties concerned and any partners / family directly affected by it.
What qualifies you as a "supporter" Diane?
Although if Corbyn has his way, Blair would be PM whilst serving jail. At least until the Scots let him out early.
I can imagine her winning the lottery and finding something to moan about.
It may cause problems for others in the shadow cabinet though, if they think Abbott (rightly or wrongly) is getting special treatment from Corbyn.
Which it could be argued she already is, as she's been massively over-promoted compared to her talent.
I'm thinking:
1 - Women.
2 - People not offensive to the great unwashed crowd of new members, who will be there for some time.
3 - Not associated with Blair / Brown in a senior or close role.
4 - Pre-2015 intake (means not Clive Lewis).
I can see Tom Watson being Acting Leader, but not the permanent Leader.
"Rebel without a cause" is good for a Corbyn tag.
It all builds on the problems of the past few days - which, in part, can be blamed on not having the slightest clue about press management.
If you aren't in control of your own message, you will be defined by your opponents (mainly, at this stage, in the press and on the Labour backbenches)
But Corbyn takes this to another level. The man was struggling to find 30 people who were willing to work alongside him for £50k a year. That demonstrates a hell of a lot of loathing.
Labour looks more like the 'Catatonic State of Befuddlement Party' at the moment
I don't give a jot about whether they did or not, but it's just very very funny.
Why is that? Where was in regard to The Balls?
If she is to be seen as a potential future leader, she will need a hell of a lot of training.
Politicians and sex is however always a titter filled event - Major and Edwina, Mellorphant and the Chelsea strip, Paddypantsdown, Soames wardrobe key, Robin Cook's airport divorce and now the delicious Corbyn Abbott GDR sex fest.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/twitter/8994263/Diane-Abbott-no-stranger-to-controversy.html
Changing Trains at Baker Street....
The things you learn on PB.com!
It has a very specific meaning.
From Wiki : edit :
From the 1950s, Corbyn/Abbott (Wartburg) had a three-cylinder two-stroke engine with only seven major moving parts (three pistons, three connecting rods and one crankshaft).
All (extreme) LHD.
But because anyone else with a pulse sees her as comical at best and useless verging on harmful at worst, they can only draw the conclusion that she was promoted for some nepotistic reason.
Again, it's lose-lose for Jezza so chalk it up to yet another day at the office in his bonkers new world.
However, if I was the Left of the party, I would focus on getting 35 MPs to nominate Corbyn again. He already has 17 (can someone confirm?), so they just need another 17 from the coming selections process.
I also don't think the comparison between Labour 2017 and the Conservatives in 2003 make sense. For a start, the Conservatives were never that right wing in 2001: we just had an unpalatable choice between IDS and Ken Clarke. Labour, on the other hand, chose Corbyn by a huge majority despite several alternatives. Secondly, the Conservatives had a tiny membership in 2001, so the growth in centrists by 2003 had a big impact. Labour, on the other hand, is two thirds hard left on a huge membership, meaning it will be very difficult for new moderates to make much difference.
shudder..
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/16/mega-rich-rocket-ships-escape-earth
"What if the mega-rich just want rocket ships to escape the Earth they destroy?"
"Which raises the question: are they just gearing up to wash their hands of the planet and leave the rest of us to clean up? By pushing outward while ignoring the problems it causes back on the home turf, are they effectively creating a galactic upper class that rests on the backs of the earthbound? "
Johnson in particular would suffer from the defect of him having said - in as many words - that he didn't think he'd be up to it. (Maybe he would be; his modesty does him credit but it would be used against him.)
If anyone hasn't read Johnson's childhood autobiography, This Boy, I heartily recommend it. It's very moving.
She was taking names.
What I find most surprising about all this is that they did a road trip around the GDR in the 1970s and still maintained their socialist views. You would have to be truly blinded by ideology to see the tip that the GDR was, compare it to the FRG, and conclude socialism was the better system.
I wonder if ER might do him the kindness of excusing him from kneeling [though this might well not leak]? Perhaps PBers who know her better can advise?
Who was allowed into the GDR at that time anyway ?
Useless.
And this will be after JC.
Amusing little story, years back a friend of mine whose father worked in a sensitive position decided to visit East Berlin... you can imagine the alarm bells that started ringing.
http://bit.ly/1OgLxdQ
They came from Britain in the 1970s.
GDR would have been cleaner and greener without undeveloped bomb sites and buildings crumbling all around you**.
No doubt the GDR was a grim place compared to many in the world. But compared to 1970s Britain it was Utopia.
How much, if at all, would you trust Jeremy Corbyn to take the right decisions on the NHS
Total Trust 40%
Total Not Trust 34%
As an aside why do undemocratic toilets of countries always have democratic in their name?
EDIT: The Mail is reporting that the affair was indeed before his divorced.
As someone who had seen the Berlin wall in the 1970s as well as the fences built across the beautiful Harz mountains like an ugly scar facing in the way with mines, barbed wire and armed sentries on patrol to prevent their people from leaving I thought this was completely absurd and some lively debates ensued but what it showed was that even seeing it for yourself is not enough to change opinions if your mind is closed. That is at least one of Corbyn's problems.
It's also still mentioned wrt Major/Currie, and many others.
- 41% of 2015 Lab voters think Lab are unlikely to win the 2020 GE with Corbyn in charge (vs. 35% likely)
- He has much more chance of winning votes from the LDs than UKIP. 30% of 2015 LDs would trust him to take the right decisions on immigration vs. 5% of UKIP voters
I'll look at the links with interest.
It was no Utopia. Cheese-cloth and Oxford bags couldn't be had for love nor money, and the only prog rock you could get was on dodgy cassettes that had had been recorded over a dozen times.
Although it was a damned site better than Czechoslovakia, which was still recently occupied by the Soviets and being plundered.
But I doubt it: there must have been loads of footage they could have used without the chanting. Easier to use 'cleaner' footage than to clean dirty footage.
Jeremy Hunt that is.
I hope we get some more polling soon, to see whether the continually one-sided broadcast media coverage has affected public sentiment, or hardened it.
sean thomas knox @thomasknox 12 hrs12 hours ago
@petinspain @A_Liberty_Rebel @BBCNews For sure? Was it the same footage?
Peter wailing @petinspain 12 hrs12 hours ago Arnhem, Gelderland
@thomasknox @A_Liberty_Rebel @BBCNews
Very similar, i think all the news crews were together.
Are there any areas of WWII damage left now, or have they all been redeveloped or re-redeveloped?
It is also likely that the areas tourists were allowed to go were pretty much free from this (similar to the way they had specific shops for tourists in most of Eastern Europe).
The main point I was making was not about the GDR, it was about the UK, which was in a very sorry state in the 1970s and had failed to make the sort of progress that practically every other Western Democracy had made since WW2 (and again, I am aware the Marshall Plan made a big difference in many European countries to this).