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  • @Tissue_Price I can't see Cameron arguing for OUT.

    Then I doubt OUT will win.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Yowzer - that's a cracking perk
    Lucky Mr Slocombe was lent more than £187,000 to buy a property in Bristol in July 2008: “According to Land Registry documents, almost all of the mortgages levy interest at three-quarters of the Bank’s base rate.

    “This means most of the CWU’s leaders may be paying 0.375% on their mortgages. According to Moneyfacts, the price-comparison website, the typical rate on a two-year fixed mortgage is currently 5.08%.”
    Scott_P said:

    @MrHarryCole: Corbyn elected on a promise of “straight talking, honest politics”.

    Spinner's first action was to erase his Twitter: http://t.co/Etn9l9iLaD

  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    I have just checked, because I don't remember Blair getting a bounce in the opinion polls. He didn't - Labour were already on an upward trajectory.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/historical-polls/voting-intention-1992-1997

    Interestingly, the only explanation for the Tories' woes in recent years that fits the facts is that they lost their reputation for economic competence due to the ERM debacle, and without that they didn't have much else to sell. It makes you realise why they go on about how bad Labour are at managing the economy so much.

    In fact I think it has now got to the stage that that the Tories have forgotten it is simply a marketing strategy and even believe it themselves - which is a bit frightening.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Pauly said:

    Scott_P said:

    @Jack_Blanchard_: Official - Labour will campaign for Britain to stay in Europe. Jeremy Corbyn just sent this email to every Labour MP: http://t.co/m7oVbjt1Du

    I feel like Corbyn has just backstabbed all of the eurosceptic Labour vote he swept up and just compromised one of his core principles worse than Blair pretending to be left-wing.

    EDIT: Also Chuka Umunna out of the cabinet for no reason now apparently...
    I bet he is gutted. Not.

    Those that must be worried are those that were foolish enough to say yes. They look really stupid right now.
  • Speaking of AAA grades, I got A*AA in my A-Levels, (which came as a huge shock on the day). All of my subjects were essayed based ones. One thing I do hope, is that if any PBers have kids doing GCSEs and A-levels, and they do well, they don't tell their kids on results day to not celebrate because of 'grade inflation'. You can only work with what you got, and for many people I knew GCSES and A-Levels were a stressful time and not easy peasy.

    1) Don't tell them while they're revising, it'll annoy them and if they get in a bad mood they're less likely to revise anyway.
    2) Don't tell them on results day. Whatever results they got, this will make them feel even worse on a day they should hopefully be celebrating.
    3) Later in life, when they're grown up enough to take it, rub it in. Really rub it in. It is very important indeed to stop people being too big for their boots, or thinking that their parents are useless just because they got worse grades 30 years ago.
    The best point for (3) is when they've starting posting to political blogs, I reckon. So, Miss Apocalypse, congrats on your BCC (as adjusted to 1997, the best year to take A-levels in).
    I'll stick with A*AA :)

    What's odd is that all the grade inflation assertions appear to always reference kids going to state, and not private schools.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    Speaking of AAA grades, I got A*AA in my A-Levels, (which came as a huge shock on the day). All of my subjects were essayed based ones. One thing I do hope, is that if any PBers have kids doing GCSEs and A-levels, and they do well, they don't tell their kids on results day to not celebrate because of 'grade inflation'. You can only work with what you got, and for many people I knew GCSES and A-Levels were a stressful time and not easy peasy.

    It would be a rare phenomenon for a parent not to celebrate a kid's good grades, regardless of context. Except my dad. In 1977, I got As in Maths, Chemistry, Physics and Biology, and an E in Advanced Maths (ok, I goofed off most of the classes, aced the pure maths paper but froze on the applied paper, my one and only bad exam ever).

    My father's reaction was "What happened with the E?"
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''I agree about entitlement.'

    Perhaps the entitlement comes from the traffickers who are profiting from this trade.

    Its not as if they are going to say Europe is crap!
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    @MyBurningEars

    "Do you get the feeling your animals eat better than you do?"

    Not this evening! He has turned his nose up at North Atlantic Prawns from M&S so instead of Beans on Toast guess what I have got for tea*? He can polish off the Waitrose roast chicken, which to be fair I bought for him (only a fiver - cheaper than cat food).

    * I'm not sure about eating the food the cat didn't want as a concept but on this occasion at least I will put my concerns aside.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    @Tissue_Price I can't see Cameron arguing for OUT.

    @MP_SE Who is Jim Mellon?

    A fund manager/businessman.
  • Mr. T, sounds jarringly bad, as reactions go.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited September 2015
    John_M said:


    However, I do wish they'd stuck with relative grading rather than absolute; it would render this particular argument moot.

    Logically, if we'd stuck with relative grading, we should have systematically reduced the proportion of people getting high grades in order to keep standards the same.

    A-level cohorts are noticeably weaker now, because more students take A-level than in the past, including very many students who would previously have been identified as academically too weak for them. As a result, the proportion of A-level students who would previously have been identified as "strong" candidates, has declined. (The raw number may actually have increased somewhat but the relative proportion is certainly worse.)

    Okay, I'm being a bit sarcastic. But only a bit. Came across someone recently who'd done very well on his business studies degree. Works very hard. Good chap. Unable to put a coherent sentence together on paper: not sure whether this is due to poor argumentation skills, or just that his logical thinking ability was unable to be expressed to its full potential because his writing (spelling, punctuation and grammar) was appalling: absolutely riddled with mistakes, probably one word in four was wrong, and generally worse writing skills than I had at primary school. Sadly this isn't because he was a geeky sort of person whose skill was numbers rather than writing: he couldn't do year 7 "solve a basic equation" algebra, nor perform basic tasks like find the area of a rectangle ("do you divide the sides?"). Checked the seat of learning at which his recent education had come. Aha, a joke of a "university"! Case solved.

    (I now understand better why I've heard a lot of recruiters say they will only look at graduates from a list of approved universities, and will not even consider people with a first class degree from a "weaker" one. Their argument is that if those folk want to prove what they're worth, they should go on and do a Masters at a "proper" universities. Harsh, but if they can afford to be selective, I understand why they'd want to filter - electronic job applications means they must got bombarded by hundreds of eager hopefuls for every post.)

    But then I checked the A-level tariff for their course entry. BBC!! So despite being functionally innumerate and unable to write, they had a pretty strong academic record all-round: good degree, decent A-level results. Brings out the old fogey in me, but sometimes I despair, I really do.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    JEO said:

    Still they can enjoy the warm weather :wink:

    JEO said:

    "Refugees"

    http://tinyurl.com/oottfb5

    Mohammad Khaled is one of the asylum seekers who arrived by bus to Frederiksberg asylum accommodation during the night of Thursday. The asylum seekers had received information that they were on their way to Hedemora, but that did not happen, which busload of asylum seekers are dissatisfied with.

    "When we arrived here, we realized that it is far from civilization, shops, hospitals and schools. We need somewhere to study and have a good life. We came to Sweden because it would be "Freedom Land". We believe they have lied to us" says Mohammad.

    It's the entitlement of it. "We need this, and you can provide it". And this is the entitlement they have right now. Can you imagine what will happen ten, fifteen years down the line?

    Well, the really disillusioned ones might turn on the host.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:

    @BBCNormanS: Labour leader @jeremycorbyn tells @FT he backs an EU Transaction Tax on the banks

    It's not a tax on banks. It's a tax on transactions. It's like VAT. Your pension fund buys shares; a tax is levied. That is charged to you, the future pensioner. Everyone who has a pension, which is not paid out of government revenue, will be affected.

    NO! The Robin Hood Tax will raised gazillions from bankers without affecting anyone in the real world at all.

    Don't you know anything?
    Free money! It's like People's QE but better as it hits BANKERS!
  • I agree about entitlement. I expected the migrants to get grumpy around Day 4 of waiting at the various borders, I was wrong - 36hrs max and they're kicking off/breaking fences.

    Not my idea of a guest to welcome in.

    JEO said:

    Still they can enjoy the warm weather :wink:

    JEO said:

    "Refugees"

    http://tinyurl.com/oottfb5

    Mohammad Khaled is one of the asylum seekers who arrived by bus to Frederiksberg asylum accommodation during the night of Thursday. The asylum seekers had received information that they were on their way to Hedemora, but that did not happen, which busload of asylum seekers are dissatisfied with.

    "When we arrived here, we realized that it is far from civilization, shops, hospitals and schools. We need somewhere to study and have a good life. We came to Sweden because it would be "Freedom Land". We believe they have lied to us" says Mohammad.

    It's the entitlement of it. "We need this, and you can provide it". And this is the entitlement they have right now. Can you imagine what will happen ten, fifteen years down the line?

    A lot of them will get fed of the conformist culture in Sweden and Germany and want to move to a diverse metropolis where people of all ethnic groups carve out their niche. Where could that be?
    It'll be interesting to see how this pans out next. If Croatia and/or Slovenia block their borders then the options become:

    - Get to the Adriatic and try to get a boat to Italy
    - Go into Romania, go round or through Transylvania, then into Ukraine, then Slovakia or Poland
    - Go back to Greece and claim asylum there.
  • MTimT said:

    Speaking of AAA grades, I got A*AA in my A-Levels, (which came as a huge shock on the day). All of my subjects were essayed based ones. One thing I do hope, is that if any PBers have kids doing GCSEs and A-levels, and they do well, they don't tell their kids on results day to not celebrate because of 'grade inflation'. You can only work with what you got, and for many people I knew GCSES and A-Levels were a stressful time and not easy peasy.

    It would be a rare phenomenon for a parent not to celebrate a kid's good grades, regardless of context. Except my dad. In 1977, I got As in Maths, Chemistry, Physics and Biology, and an E in Advanced Maths (ok, I goofed off most of the classes, aced the pure maths paper but froze on the applied paper, my one and only bad exam ever).

    My father's reaction was "What happened with the E?"
    I'm sorry about your dad - it must be a mood killer to have that reaction after getting three As! The worst I've seen is when people don't do well as expected, and parents compare them to others who have done much better.

  • Mr. Ears, I used to have a maths text book aimed at 14 year olds in the 1940s. It contained mathematics which 10 years ago was not even in the A level syllabus never mind GCSE, and I am not talking about how to use a slide-rule (hands-up those who know, without using Google, what a slide-rule is). However, modern GCSE and A level papers contain maths that probably wasn't even discovered seventy years ago, or if it was then it was judged too esoteric for normal people to know about).

    So, whilst I feel for university lecturers having to spend time in year one covering stuff that previous generations of students would have known and been good at, I am not sure a direct comparison of content is any real indicator of relative difficulty of school exam papers..

    When I was a kid I learnt how to use a concrete-calculator slide rule. Whilst the calculations were simple and could easily be done with pen and paper, the slide rule was brilliant for checking estimates on site without mistakes. You never want to under- or over- order concrete for a pour. I'm forty-two, and it's the only time I've ever used a slide rule in anger.

    When the little 'un is old enough, I want to buy one and take him through how to use it.

    I've also got a surveyor's level in our display cabinet that I'll teach him how to use (admittedly after re-teaching myself). All I want now is a proper optical theodolite. ;)

    As for maths: FFT's are the basis of so much stuff in the modern world, no child should leave school without knowing how they work ...
  • MTimT said:



    Do you get the feeling your animals eat better than you do?

    I've often been tempted to get a formicarium, so I have something to feed the breadcrumbs, plus autumn's crop of dead moths and craneflies, to.

    Our barn cats get an exotic, organic, farm-fresh diet of voles, mice, bats and barn swallows.

    @MyBurningEars

    "Do you get the feeling your animals eat better than you do?"

    Not this evening! He has turned his nose up at North Atlantic Prawns from M&S so instead of Beans on Toast guess what I have got for tea*? He can polish off the Waitrose roast chicken, which to be fair I bought for him (only a fiver - cheaper than cat food).

    * I'm not sure about eating the food the cat didn't want as a concept but on this occasion at least I will put my concerns aside.

    Both these posts made me smile! I think I'll pass on the fish flakes. They've never really looked, or smelt, the least bit attractive to me.
  • John_M said:


    However, I do wish they'd stuck with relative grading rather than absolute; it would render this particular argument moot.

    Logically, if we'd stuck with relative grading, we should have systematically reduced the proportion of people getting high grades in order to keep standards the same.

    A-level cohorts are noticeably weaker now, because more students take A-level than in the past, including very many students who would previously have been identified as academically too weak for them. .............
    Were they someone who was allowed extra time in each exam because they were dyslexic or another factor?
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662

    I agree about entitlement. I expected the migrants to get grumpy around Day 4 of waiting at the various borders, I was wrong - 36hrs max and they're kicking off/breaking fences.

    Not my idea of a guest to welcome in.

    JEO said:

    Still they can enjoy the warm weather :wink:

    JEO said:

    "Refugees"

    http://tinyurl.com/oottfb5

    Mohammad Khaled is one of the asylum seekers who arrived by bus to Frederiksberg asylum accommodation during the night of Thursday. The asylum seekers had received information that they were on their way to Hedemora, but that did not happen, which busload of asylum seekers are dissatisfied with.

    "When we arrived here, we realized that it is far from civilization, shops, hospitals and schools. We need somewhere to study and have a good life. We came to Sweden because it would be "Freedom Land". We believe they have lied to us" says Mohammad.

    It's the entitlement of it. "We need this, and you can provide it". And this is the entitlement they have right now. Can you imagine what will happen ten, fifteen years down the line?

    A lot of them will get fed of the conformist culture in Sweden and Germany and want to move to a diverse metropolis where people of all ethnic groups carve out their niche. Where could that be?
    And clearly not putting safety as their prime concern, which I had thought was what essentially defined a refugee. The way they are using children to manipulate public opinion is disgraceful, but as long as the media get 'human story' pictures I don't suppose they care.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    John_M said:

    Speaking of AAA grades, I got A*AA in my A-Levels, (which came as a huge shock on the day). All of my subjects were essayed based ones. One thing I do hope, is that if any PBers have kids doing GCSEs and A-levels, and they do well, they don't tell their kids on results day to not celebrate because of 'grade inflation'. You can only work with what you got, and for many people I knew GCSES and A-Levels were a stressful time and not easy peasy.

    Grade inflation was one of our forbidden topics while the kids were slogging through their GCSE/A-levels - we didn't see it as particularly helpful ;).

    However, I do wish they'd stuck with relative grading rather than absolute; it would render this particular argument moot.
    I explained the current grading system to my kids as

    A = adequate
    B = below standard
    C = crap
    D = don't want to know.

    but then they have a good sense of humour
  • @MyBurningEars Tbf, it's a business studies degree. That's like doing media studies at university.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited September 2015
    7,266 refugees/migrants entered Germany yesterday. That's equivalent to about 2.65 million a year.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34275400
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Having slept on it, and watching the GOP debate again, as well as the focus groups and post debate coverage -

    firstly the format was terrible - Jake Tapper lost control, (what were Dana Bash and Hugh Hewitt there for? Trump did a demolition job on Hewitt for the gotcha he asked him on radio), and it seemed designed to cause fights rather than elicit information. It was much inferior to the Fox debate.

    It was way too long at 3 hours 15 minutes.

    Rubio did good, Christie had his moments, but the key observation is that this is the peak of the Trump phenomenon. He just did not do well this time.

    Carly Fiorina made Trump back up, with her response to his comments about her face, and his response that fell flat. That was the big event of the night and she clearly won the debate again. Whether the polls will reflect that time will tell.

    She was good on foreign policy. For those who don't know she was chairman of the CIA's external advisory board with a Top Secret security clearance during her time at HP.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    edited September 2015
    @The_Apocalypse


    'The dilemma for OUT is to find a figure who isn't politically toxic to lead their cause! '


    Angela Merkel is doing a great job for OUT ?


  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Croatia are trying to block theirs - migrants who arrived during the night were breaking down fences by 2pm today. They're refusing to be fingerprinted/documented properly in case they're rejected.

    It's a free for all. IIRC the Croation PM said earlier that his country was full and to go elsewhere.

    I agree about entitlement. I expected the migrants to get grumpy around Day 4 of waiting at the various borders, I was wrong - 36hrs max and they're kicking off/breaking fences.

    Not my idea of a guest to welcome in.

    JEO said:

    Still they can enjoy the warm weather :wink:

    JEO said:

    "Refugees"

    http://tinyurl.com/oottfb5

    Mohammad Khaled is one of the asylum seekers who arrived by bus to Frederiksberg asylum accommodation during the night of Thursday. The asylum seekers had received information that they were on their way to Hedemora, but that did not happen, which busload of asylum seekers are dissatisfied with.

    "When we arrived here, we realized that it is far from civilization, shops, hospitals and schools. We need somewhere to study and have a good life. We came to Sweden because it would be "Freedom Land". We believe they have lied to us" says Mohammad.

    It's the entitlement of it. "We need this, and you can provide it". And this is the entitlement they have right now. Can you imagine what will happen ten, fifteen years down the line?

    A lot of them will get fed of the conformist culture in Sweden and Germany and want to move to a diverse metropolis where people of all ethnic groups carve out their niche. Where could that be?
    It'll be interesting to see how this pans out next. If Croatia and/or Slovenia block their borders then the options become:

    - Get to the Adriatic and try to get a boat to Italy
    - Go into Romania, go round or through Transylvania, then into Ukraine, then Slovakia or Poland
    - Go back to Greece and claim asylum there.
  • john_zims said:

    @The_Apocalypse


    'The dilemma for OUT is to find a figure who isn't politically toxic to lead their cause! '


    Angela Merkel ?


    Judging by PB she is politically toxic to outers!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    The Canadian election is turning into one of the most exciting 3-way fights ever. Latest polling averages:

    NDP 30.8%
    Con 30.3%
    Lib 29.9%

    http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/poll-tracker/2015/index.html
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    4 As.

    MTimT said:

    Speaking of AAA grades, I got A*AA in my A-Levels, (which came as a huge shock on the day). All of my subjects were essayed based ones. One thing I do hope, is that if any PBers have kids doing GCSEs and A-levels, and they do well, they don't tell their kids on results day to not celebrate because of 'grade inflation'. You can only work with what you got, and for many people I knew GCSES and A-Levels were a stressful time and not easy peasy.

    It would be a rare phenomenon for a parent not to celebrate a kid's good grades, regardless of context. Except my dad. In 1977, I got As in Maths, Chemistry, Physics and Biology, and an E in Advanced Maths (ok, I goofed off most of the classes, aced the pure maths paper but froze on the applied paper, my one and only bad exam ever).

    My father's reaction was "What happened with the E?"
    I'm sorry about your dad - it must be a mood killer to have that reaction after getting three As! The worst I've seen is when people don't do well as expected, and parents compare them to others who have done much better.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited September 2015

    John_M said:


    However, I do wish they'd stuck with relative grading rather than absolute; it would render this particular argument moot.

    Logically, if we'd stuck with relative grading, we should have systematically reduced the proportion of people getting high grades in order to keep standards the same.

    A-level cohorts are noticeably weaker now, because more students take A-level than in the past, including very many students who would previously have been identified as academically too weak for them. .............
    Were they someone who was allowed extra time in each exam because they were dyslexic or another factor?
    Nope (though I take your point and I should have clarified this). Hence my despair. Anyone who used a metric of "oh isn't it good he's got such good A-levels!" or "isn't it nice he's gone to university?" or "well done for doing so well in your degree!"

    It's not that he was an idiot. There are many jobs I am sure he'd be excellent at. It's the disconnect between him being objectively poor at precisely those academic skills that he was being so highly and successfully certified in that grated with me. The sort of professional work he had been, theoretically, educated to do would be reliant on him being able to express himself well in writing, be numerate, able to formulate arguments and so on.

    If we're supposedly building a "high skill economy" then awarding all and sundry with good A-levels and shuffling them off to university might just not be the best means of doing so.
  • Miss Plato, quite. The consensus here, immediately after she said, was correct. Merkel's policy is bloody stupid.

    The media are also utterly failing in impartiality, not reporting polls which show the public are diametrically opposed to the line BBC and Sky have taken, and (apparently) editing footage so potentially negative aspects are diminished or absent.

    I hope we get some more polling soon, to see whether people have been swayed by the one-way coverage.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    the penny dropping in Germany that it;s Merkel and the Bundesrepublik who are looking isolated not Hungary.

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/merkels-worte-und-taten-in-der-fluechtlingskrise-13809039.html
  • 4 As.

    MTimT said:

    Speaking of AAA grades, I got A*AA in my A-Levels, (which came as a huge shock on the day). All of my subjects were essayed based ones. One thing I do hope, is that if any PBers have kids doing GCSEs and A-levels, and they do well, they don't tell their kids on results day to not celebrate because of 'grade inflation'. You can only work with what you got, and for many people I knew GCSES and A-Levels were a stressful time and not easy peasy.

    It would be a rare phenomenon for a parent not to celebrate a kid's good grades, regardless of context. Except my dad. In 1977, I got As in Maths, Chemistry, Physics and Biology, and an E in Advanced Maths (ok, I goofed off most of the classes, aced the pure maths paper but froze on the applied paper, my one and only bad exam ever).

    My father's reaction was "What happened with the E?"
    I'm sorry about your dad - it must be a mood killer to have that reaction after getting three As! The worst I've seen is when people don't do well as expected, and parents compare them to others who have done much better.
    Just seen that, apologies @MTimT! Was it usual to do 5 A-levels back then?
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    @Tissue_Price I can't see Cameron arguing for OUT.

    Then I doubt OUT will win.
    It all depends on how strong a negotiation Cameron gets. The migrant crisis really will require him to get a firm grip that we won't suffer second hand from it. But media images every day of angry young men breaking into Europe, with endless twists and turns to the story as fences are put up and new routes are found, really is not good for IN.
  • Scott_P said:

    @BBCNormanS: Labour leader @jeremycorbyn tells @FT he backs an EU Transaction Tax on the banks

    Why am I not surprised - Corbyn is a walking talking cliché – dangerous too.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Doing two or three was normal. Doing 9 or 10 O levels was at the top end in the early 80s.

    IIRC HD who used to post here got 5 A levels back in the 70s. AAAAB. I was WOWOWOW

    4 As.

    MTimT said:

    Speaking of AAA grades, I got A*AA in my A-Levels, (which came as a huge shock on the day). All of my subjects were essayed based ones. One thing I do hope, is that if any PBers have kids doing GCSEs and A-levels, and they do well, they don't tell their kids on results day to not celebrate because of 'grade inflation'. You can only work with what you got, and for many people I knew GCSES and A-Levels were a stressful time and not easy peasy.

    It would be a rare phenomenon for a parent not to celebrate a kid's good grades, regardless of context. Except my dad. In 1977, I got As in Maths, Chemistry, Physics and Biology, and an E in Advanced Maths (ok, I goofed off most of the classes, aced the pure maths paper but froze on the applied paper, my one and only bad exam ever).

    My father's reaction was "What happened with the E?"
    I'm sorry about your dad - it must be a mood killer to have that reaction after getting three As! The worst I've seen is when people don't do well as expected, and parents compare them to others who have done much better.
    Just seen that, apologies @MTimT! Was it usual to do 5 A-levels back then?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    I agree about entitlement. I expected the migrants to get grumpy around Day 4 of waiting at the various borders, I was wrong - 36hrs max and they're kicking off/breaking fences.

    Not my idea of a guest to welcome in.

    JEO said:

    Still they can enjoy the warm weather :wink:

    JEO said:

    "Refugees"

    http://tinyurl.com/oottfb5

    Mohammad Khaled is one of the asylum seekers who arrived by bus to Frederiksberg asylum accommodation during the night of Thursday. The asylum seekers had received information that they were on their way to Hedemora, but that did not happen, which busload of asylum seekers are dissatisfied with.

    "When we arrived here, we realized that it is far from civilization, shops, hospitals and schools. We need somewhere to study and have a good life. We came to Sweden because it would be "Freedom Land". We believe they have lied to us" says Mohammad.

    It's the entitlement of it. "We need this, and you can provide it". And this is the entitlement they have right now. Can you imagine what will happen ten, fifteen years down the line?

    A lot of them will get fed of the conformist culture in Sweden and Germany and want to move to a diverse metropolis where people of all ethnic groups carve out their niche. Where could that be?
    It'll be interesting to see how this pans out next. If Croatia and/or Slovenia block their borders then the options become:

    - Get to the Adriatic and try to get a boat to Italy
    - Go into Romania, go round or through Transylvania, then into Ukraine, then Slovakia or Poland
    - Go back to Greece and claim asylum there.
    Just imagine what the Russians will do if a load of migrants start turning up in Ukraine, hurling stones and shouting.

  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098


    Mr. Ears, I used to have a maths text book aimed at 14 year olds in the 1940s. It contained mathematics which 10 years ago was not even in the A level syllabus never mind GCSE, and I am not talking about how to use a slide-rule (hands-up those who know, without using Google, what a slide-rule is). However, modern GCSE and A level papers contain maths that probably wasn't even discovered seventy years ago, or if it was then it was judged too esoteric for normal people to know about).

    So, whilst I feel for university lecturers having to spend time in year one covering stuff that previous generations of students would have known and been good at, I am not sure a direct comparison of content is any real indicator of relative difficulty of school exam papers..

    When I was a kid I learnt how to use a concrete-calculator slide rule. Whilst the calculations were simple and could easily be done with pen and paper, the slide rule was brilliant for checking estimates on site without mistakes. You never want to under- or over- order concrete for a pour. I'm forty-two, and it's the only time I've ever used a slide rule in anger.

    When the little 'un is old enough, I want to buy one and take him through how to use it.

    I've also got a surveyor's level in our display cabinet that I'll teach him how to use (admittedly after re-teaching myself). All I want now is a proper optical theodolite. ;)

    As for maths: FFT's are the basis of so much stuff in the modern world, no child should leave school without knowing how they work ...
    My son when he was about 12 started playing a computer game Silent Hunter in which as a U Boat commander you had to use what was in fact a circular slide rule in order to calculate the parameters for an attack. I let him get good at it and then one day introduced him to a real circular slide rule. As a way of proving to a lad he was good at, at least, one area of mathematics and calculation it was stunning success. That boost to his confidence produced a stunning improvement in his maths learning.

    Mathematics is so important to the modern world that I think it criminally stupid the way the education system is allowed to let it go for pupils who "have no aptitude". There are next to no children who have no aptitude for mathematics only bloody awful teachers who convince them that they haven't.

    Teaching Fast Fourier Transformations to pre-teens might be a stretch though.
  • JEO said:

    @Tissue_Price I can't see Cameron arguing for OUT.

    Then I doubt OUT will win.
    It all depends on how strong a negotiation Cameron gets. The migrant crisis really will require him to get a firm grip that we won't suffer second hand from it. But media images every day of angry young men breaking into Europe, with endless twists and turns to the story as fences are put up and new routes are found, really is not good for IN.
    What 'Stay' needs is stability within the EU. With the mess in Greece plastered over with papier mâché, migrants and refugees swarming in, and Germany making both situations worse whilst trying to act as a bully-boss, they're not getting it.

    There's an admittedly small chance that these events might lead to some countries other than us leaving the EU. I know RCS and others believe differently, but there's a chance.

    The more chaos there is in the EU, the better the chance of getting a vote to leave. But chaos in the EU would be bad for all of us, stay or leave.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited September 2015
    Back when I was at uni, I regularly met people who had seven or more As. Plus S-levels or equivalents, of course. I hasten to add this was not normal at all from my school background! I think the most I ran in to was a chap who went to the same church as me and had thirteen As. If he took them under the modern system, he'd no doubt have achieved thirteen A*s instead. He was quite bright, but as he pointed out, the "A count" wasn't a great measure of intelligence: said more about the school he went to and his capacity and organisation to do large amounts of work. There were other people with three As who were clearly sharper than him, just had more of a life during sixth form!

    (When you have people like that, who are almost effortlessly stringing off near-100% scores in their exams, what it really tells you is that they're taking exams which are a level too easy for them and they might have benefited from going on to harder material. "Almost effortlessly" meaning that had to do the work to learn the material, but the mental effort required to master it wasn't stretching them: bit like Mo Farah running a 40 minute 10k. In terms of challenging him it's easy peasy, but would still take 40 minutes of time and a bit of physical effort. Unlike French high-schools, though, many British schools are not well-equipped - essentially, staffed - to tackle stuff much beyond A-levels. Students who have to take a "harder than A-level" exam for Oxbridge or other university admission often report it's difficult to get school support with it.)

    4 As.

    MTimT said:

    Speaking of AAA grades, I got A*AA in my A-Levels, (which came as a huge shock on the day). All of my subjects were essayed based ones. One thing I do hope, is that if any PBers have kids doing GCSEs and A-levels, and they do well, they don't tell their kids on results day to not celebrate because of 'grade inflation'. You can only work with what you got, and for many people I knew GCSES and A-Levels were a stressful time and not easy peasy.

    It would be a rare phenomenon for a parent not to celebrate a kid's good grades, regardless of context. Except my dad. In 1977, I got As in Maths, Chemistry, Physics and Biology, and an E in Advanced Maths (ok, I goofed off most of the classes, aced the pure maths paper but froze on the applied paper, my one and only bad exam ever).

    My father's reaction was "What happened with the E?"
    I'm sorry about your dad - it must be a mood killer to have that reaction after getting three As! The worst I've seen is when people don't do well as expected, and parents compare them to others who have done much better.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    Mr. T, sounds jarringly bad, as reactions go.

    But at that stage in my life, entirely expected and of now impact on me but to give me a little story to tell.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Alanbrooke


    'the penny dropping in Germany that it;s Merkel and the Bundesrepublik who are looking isolated not Hungary'.


    Yes,Hungary did exactly what Germany did, but some how they are the bad guys.

    Maybe Germany can let us know how many hundreds of terrorists they have allowed into Europe ?
  • Mr. T, glad it didn't affect you too much. Those little moments can be worth storing away, to avoid repeating them when a parent or in a mentor position later in life.

    Incidentally, my own A-levels are terrible compared to most here (CCDD, I think). Only one that annoys me is Religious Studies, where I'm convinced [told this story before] my last two exams were horrendously badly marked.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    My mother summed up her mother's attitude to stellar examination success as *shouldn't that have been in better handwriting?*
    MTimT said:

    Mr. T, sounds jarringly bad, as reactions go.

    But at that stage in my life, entirely expected and of now impact on me but to give me a little story to tell.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I always liked it when someone outstandingly clever was in my class - they were so far ahead of everyone else, that it took the pressure off!

    Back when I was at uni, I regularly met people who had seven or more As. Plus S-levels or equivalents, of course. I hasten to add this was not normal at all from my school background! I think the most I ran in to was a chap who went to the same church as me and had thirteen As. If he took them under the modern system, he'd no doubt have achieved thirteen A*s instead. He was quite bright, but as he pointed out, the "A count" wasn't a great measure of intelligence: said more about the school he went to and his capacity and organisation to do large amounts of work. There were other people with three As who were clearly sharper than him, just had more of a life during sixth form!

    (When you have people like that, who are almost effortlessly stringing off near-100% scores in their exams, what it really tells you is that they're taking exams which are a level too easy for them and they might have benefited from going on to harder material. "Almost effortlessly" meaning that had to do the work to learn the material, but the mental effort required to master it wasn't stretching them: bit like Mo Farah running a 40 minute 10k. In terms of challenging him it's easy peasy, but would still take 40 minutes of time and a bit of physical effort. Unlike French high-schools, though, many British schools are not well-equipped - essentially, staffed - to tackle stuff much beyond A-levels. Students who have to take a "harder than A-level" exam for Oxbridge or other university admission often report it's difficult to get school support with it.)

    4 As.

    MTimT said:

    Speaking of AAA grades, I got A*AA in my A-Levels, (which came as a huge shock on the day). All of my subjects were essayed based ones. One thing I do hope, is that if any PBers have kids doing GCSEs and A-levels, and they do well, they don't tell their kids on results day to not celebrate because of 'grade inflation'. You can only work with what you got, and for many people I knew GCSES and A-Levels were a stressful time and not easy peasy.

    snip

    My father's reaction was "What happened with the E?"
    I'm sorry about your dad - it must be a mood killer to have that reaction after getting three As! The worst I've seen is when people don't do well as expected, and parents compare them to others who have done much better.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662

    Mr. T, glad it didn't affect you too much. Those little moments can be worth storing away, to avoid repeating them when a parent or in a mentor position later in life.

    Incidentally, my own A-levels are terrible compared to most here (CCDD, I think). Only one that annoys me is Religious Studies, where I'm convinced [told this story before] my last two exams were horrendously badly marked.

    For my sins (or otherwise) I teach at a university and I'm girding my loins for the worst part of the first term, which is explaining to students with 3 A's at A level why they're only getting 50-60% on their University work. I could go off into grouchy old man territory with examples of worsening standards but the real impact on the students is psychological; 'why were we told we were so good?' is what the brighter ones ask.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Mr. T, glad it didn't affect you too much. Those little moments can be worth storing away, to avoid repeating them when a parent or in a mentor position later in life.

    Incidentally, my own A-levels are terrible compared to most here (CCDD, I think). Only one that annoys me is Religious Studies, where I'm convinced [told this story before] my last two exams were horrendously badly marked.

    Not compared to me - I left school the term before A levels as I was offered a job at IBM.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    edited September 2015
    Mr. Rose, university went better (although the hilariously mis-marked [to my advantage] year 1 exam sadly didn't count towards my final grade). Because I was practically the only person on the course with a maths A-level, I understood the stats a lot better than most other people, and I got a 2.1 [which is fine, and certainly better than CCDD].

    Edited extra bit: Mr. B, but I wasn't offered a job by IBM, or anyone else!
  • I got into Oxford with BBBD (and 2 failed S Levels)

    I probably would have worked harder - but I was given a BBB offer - so why bother doing any more? (I am in no doubt that I was part of an affirmative action scheme to get more state school pupils into Oxford - but I did my research and found the college who wanted to work like that, so used the system)

    Ah the joys of the 1980s!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    MTimT said:

    Mr. T, sounds jarringly bad, as reactions go.

    But at that stage in my life, entirely expected and of now impact on me but to give me a little story to tell.
    I got good results in my A-levels and that same summer my Italian male cousin also did his school leaving exams. His results were worse than mine and I remember being told by my aunt that I should not boast because it would make him feel bad, the implication being that he should have done better than me.

    Err, no - was my response. Which did not go down well.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited September 2015
    Hurst, I understand from years gone by on here, that you are a fellow former maths teacher.

    I actually collect old textbooks. If you happened to have anything else in your connection let me know, especially if your other half is keen that you "have a clear out"!

    FWIW there is actually very little "mathematics discovered within the past 70 years" in any school-level syllabus in Britain. One of the few things that is in their at GCSE is new forms of data presentation, including the box plot: invented by Tukey, of FFT fame! (Like JJ I think that FFT would be a great addition to the high school syllabus, and some Further Maths syllabuses even have a numerical methods module, but sadly FFT doesn't feature.)

    The other aspect where there has been new material added is the "Decision and Discrete" modules at A-level, which includes relatively recent (within our lifetime) algorithms.

    Other things have been surprisingly static. The big shift in Applied Mathematics (i.e. Classical Mechanics) teaching was in the 1970s, when they switched to a "modern" vector notation. But this wasn't a new idea... and the notation they used was actually the i, j, k notation borrowed from Hamilton's quaternion notation back in the 1840s!



    Mr. Ears, I used to have a maths text book aimed at 14 year olds in the 1940s. It contained mathematics which 10 years ago was not even in the A level syllabus never mind GCSE, and I am not talking about how to use a slide-rule (hands-up those who know, without using Google, what a slide-rule is). However, modern GCSE and A level papers contain maths that probably wasn't even discovered seventy years ago, or if it was then it was judged too esoteric for normal people to know about).

    So, whilst I feel for university lecturers having to spend time in year one covering stuff that previous generations of students would have known and been good at, I am not sure a direct comparison of content is any real indicator of relative difficulty of school exam papers..

  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Tim_B said:

    Having slept on it, and watching the GOP debate again, as well as the focus groups and post debate coverage -

    firstly the format was terrible - Jake Tapper lost control, (what were Dana Bash and Hugh Hewitt there for? Trump did a demolition job on Hewitt for the gotcha he asked him on radio), and it seemed designed to cause fights rather than elicit information. It was much inferior to the Fox debate.

    It was way too long at 3 hours 15 minutes.

    Rubio did good, Christie had his moments, but the key observation is that this is the peak of the Trump phenomenon. He just did not do well this time.

    Carly Fiorina made Trump back up, with her response to his comments about her face, and his response that fell flat. That was the big event of the night and she clearly won the debate again. Whether the polls will reflect that time will tell.

    She was good on foreign policy. For those who don't know she was chairman of the CIA's external advisory board with a Top Secret security clearance during her time at HP.

    The more I think about it, the more, for me, Rubio was the best performer on the night. Huckabee once again showed what a good speaker he is, but his ideas are completely unacceptable to voters like myself.

    Christie showed his heft in more than just pounds, but is carrying too much baggage to make an impact on the race.

    Walker did enough to prevent the death of his campaign, which is important because the mainstream candidates need to survive until The Donald implodes. Carson is done, Carly will be a passing phenomenon if anything (her greatest hope IMO is to be the VP choice).

    I really think, after two debates, that Jeb simply does not have what it takes. He is bright and experienced enough, and his policies would be fine overall - it is what Trump called out, a lack of energy, but also a lack of carrying the impact what he says should carry.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Excellent stuff :smiley:

    What did you study?

    I got into Oxford with BBBD (and 2 failed S Levels)

    I probably would have worked harder - but I was given a BBB offer - so why bother doing any more? (I am in no doubt that I was part of an affirmative action scheme to get more state school pupils into Oxford - but I did my research and found the college who wanted to work like that, so used the system)

    Ah the joys of the 1980s!

  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    watford30 said:

    JEO said:

    Still they can enjoy the warm weather :wink:

    JEO said:

    "Refugees"

    http://tinyurl.com/oottfb5

    Mohammad Khaled is one of the asylum seekers who arrived by bus to Frederiksberg asylum accommodation during the night of Thursday. The asylum seekers had received information that they were on their way to Hedemora, but that did not happen, which busload of asylum seekers are dissatisfied with.

    "When we arrived here, we realized that it is far from civilization, shops, hospitals and schools. We need somewhere to study and have a good life. We came to Sweden because it would be "Freedom Land". We believe they have lied to us" says Mohammad.

    It's the entitlement of it. "We need this, and you can provide it". And this is the entitlement they have right now. Can you imagine what will happen ten, fifteen years down the line?

    Well, the really disillusioned ones might turn on the host.

    I wonder who the first major politician to turn from in to out will be?
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited September 2015
    @TudorRose
    Tbf, if you're talking about first years, in the first term then it's natural they aren't suddenly going to jump straight into getting high grades. This was something that we were told in our first year as well. The jump between university and A-level is significant. This was something my mum (who went to uni) also experienced.
  • I felt sorry for the poor chap! Everyone would introduce him at parties as "Oh, have you met the guy with 13 As?" He wasn't even especially proud of the fact, uni level was far more challenging for him. (Someone else in my year got 100% in all her maths and further maths A-level exams - both her parents were maths teachers - and she struggled to pass the maths course. Was one of the weaker students there. The formulaic style of A-levels wasn't repeated in the "think for yourself" uni exams, and so it wasn't a good preparation for her at all.)

    I always liked it when someone outstandingly clever was in my class - they were so far ahead of everyone else, that it took the pressure off!

  • TudorRose said:

    Mr. T, glad it didn't affect you too much. Those little moments can be worth storing away, to avoid repeating them when a parent or in a mentor position later in life.

    Incidentally, my own A-levels are terrible compared to most here (CCDD, I think). Only one that annoys me is Religious Studies, where I'm convinced [told this story before] my last two exams were horrendously badly marked.

    For my sins (or otherwise) I teach at a university and I'm girding my loins for the worst part of the first term, which is explaining to students with 3 A's at A level why they're only getting 50-60% on their University work. I could go off into grouchy old man territory with examples of worsening standards but the real impact on the students is psychological; 'why were we told we were so good?' is what the brighter ones ask.
    SNAP
  • Back when I was at uni, I regularly met people who had seven or more As. Plus S-levels or equivalents, of course. I hasten to add this was not normal at all from my school background! I think the most I ran in to was a chap who went to the same church as me and had thirteen As. If he took them under the modern system, he'd no doubt have achieved thirteen A*s instead. He was quite bright, but as he pointed out, the "A count" wasn't a great measure of intelligence: said more about the school he went to and his capacity and organisation to do large amounts of work. There were other people with three As who were clearly sharper than him, just had more of a life during sixth form!

    (When you have people like that, who are almost effortlessly stringing off near-100% scores in their exams, what it really tells you is that they're taking exams which are a level too easy for them and they might have benefited from going on to harder material. "Almost effortlessly" meaning that had to do the work to learn the material, but the mental effort required to master it wasn't stretching them: bit like Mo Farah running a 40 minute 10k. In terms of challenging him it's easy peasy, but would still take 40 minutes of time and a bit of physical effort. Unlike French high-schools, though, many British schools are not well-equipped - essentially, staffed - to tackle stuff much beyond A-levels. Students who have to take a "harder than A-level" exam for Oxbridge or other university admission often report it's difficult to get school support with it.)

    4 As.

    MTimT said:

    Speaking of AAA grades, I got A*AA in my A-Levels, (which came as a huge shock on the day). All of my subjects were essayed based ones. One thing I do hope, is that if any PBers have kids doing GCSEs and A-levels, and they do well, they don't tell their kids on results day to not celebrate because of 'grade inflation'. You can only work with what you got, and for many people I knew GCSES and A-Levels were a stressful time and not easy peasy.

    It would be a rare phenomenon for a parent not to celebrate a kid's good grades, regardless of context. Except my dad. In 1977, I got As in Maths, Chemistry, Physics and Biology, and an E in Advanced Maths (ok, I goofed off most of the classes, aced the pure maths paper but froze on the applied paper, my one and only bad exam ever).

    My father's reaction was "What happened with the E?"
    I'm sorry about your dad - it must be a mood killer to have that reaction after getting three As! The worst I've seen is when people don't do well as expected, and parents compare them to others who have done much better.
    This is what the S-level is for.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    John_M said:


    However, I do wish they'd stuck with relative grading rather than absolute; it would render this particular argument moot.

    Logically, if we'd stuck with relative grading, we should have systematically reduced the proportion of people getting high grades in order to keep standards the same.

    A-level cohorts are noticeably weaker now, because more students take A-level than in the past, including very many students who would previously have been identified as academically too weak for them. .............
    Were they someone who was allowed extra time in each exam because they were dyslexic or another factor?
    Nope (though I take your point and I should have clarified this). Hence my despair. Anyone who used a metric of "oh isn't it good he's got such good A-levels!" or "isn't it nice he's gone to university?" or "well done for doing so well in your degree!"

    It's not that he was an idiot. There are many jobs I am sure he'd be excellent at. It's the disconnect between him being objectively poor at precisely those academic skills that he was being so highly and successfully certified in that grated with me. The sort of professional work he had been, theoretically, educated to do would be reliant on him being able to express himself well in writing, be numerate, able to formulate arguments and so on.

    If we're supposedly building a "high skill economy" then awarding all and sundry with good A-levels and shuffling them off to university might just not be the best means of doing so.
    You are going to get yourself locked up by the inquisition as a heretic if you carry on like that, Mr. Ears. Fifty per cent of children must go on to higher education, that is the doctrine. Even if we must reduce the educational standards need for a degree to those of a twelve year old with severe learning difficulties.

    Oddly, the excuse for the silly 50% target was that we needed a better educated workforce. That was the thing about Blair, he could very accurately identify a problem (our education system was crap) but was totally incapable of delivering a proper solution.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662

    TudorRose said:

    Mr. T, glad it didn't affect you too much. Those little moments can be worth storing away, to avoid repeating them when a parent or in a mentor position later in life.

    Incidentally, my own A-levels are terrible compared to most here (CCDD, I think). Only one that annoys me is Religious Studies, where I'm convinced [told this story before] my last two exams were horrendously badly marked.

    For my sins (or otherwise) I teach at a university and I'm girding my loins for the worst part of the first term, which is explaining to students with 3 A's at A level why they're only getting 50-60% on their University work. I could go off into grouchy old man territory with examples of worsening standards but the real impact on the students is psychological; 'why were we told we were so good?' is what the brighter ones ask.
    SNAP
    Of course the less bright ones just ask how they can get a re-mark. I'd do a sad face if I knew how to, but I got a straight fail in emoticons!
  • I teach the basics of a Fourier transform to 2nd year chemists partly as an experimental technique and partly as a way of bringing in ideas such as complex numbers and integration.

    Which is damning, as most haven't really seen those two concepts before ... :/
  • TudorRose said:

    TudorRose said:

    Mr. T, glad it didn't affect you too much. Those little moments can be worth storing away, to avoid repeating them when a parent or in a mentor position later in life.

    Incidentally, my own A-levels are terrible compared to most here (CCDD, I think). Only one that annoys me is Religious Studies, where I'm convinced [told this story before] my last two exams were horrendously badly marked.

    For my sins (or otherwise) I teach at a university and I'm girding my loins for the worst part of the first term, which is explaining to students with 3 A's at A level why they're only getting 50-60% on their University work. I could go off into grouchy old man territory with examples of worsening standards but the real impact on the students is psychological; 'why were we told we were so good?' is what the brighter ones ask.
    SNAP
    Of course the less bright ones just ask how they can get a re-mark. I'd do a sad face if I knew how to, but I got a straight fail in emoticons!
    "Do you have any past papers?"

    :!
  • ONE WEEK TIL TERM STARTS

    which is why I'm in my lab, kind of working and squeezing the last bit of productivity out of my summer.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    Doing two or three was normal. Doing 9 or 10 O levels was at the top end in the early 80s.

    IIRC HD who used to post here got 5 A levels back in the 70s. AAAAB. I was WOWOWOW

    4 As.

    MTimT said:

    Speaking of AAA grades, I got A*AA in my A-Levels, (which came as a huge shock on the day). All of my subjects were essayed based ones. One thing I do hope, is that if any PBers have kids doing GCSEs and A-levels, and they do well, they don't tell their kids on results day to not celebrate because of 'grade inflation'. You can only work with what you got, and for many people I knew GCSES and A-Levels were a stressful time and not easy peasy.

    It would be a rare phenomenon for a parent not to celebrate a kid's good grades, regardless of context. Except my dad. In 1977, I got As in Maths, Chemistry, Physics and Biology, and an E in Advanced Maths (ok, I goofed off most of the classes, aced the pure maths paper but froze on the applied paper, my one and only bad exam ever).

    My father's reaction was "What happened with the E?"
    I'm sorry about your dad - it must be a mood killer to have that reaction after getting three As! The worst I've seen is when people don't do well as expected, and parents compare them to others who have done much better.
    Just seen that, apologies @MTimT! Was it usual to do 5 A-levels back then?
    I was at the last Grammar school in the Plymouth area. We did two O-levels in the Fourth, 8 in the Fifth, Maths A-level in the lower sixth, and the balance of A-levels in the upper sixth. There were 70 of us in the Upper Sixth, and between about 15 of us it was a very competitive environment for A level grades - I think we all got 4 A levels with at least 3 As. I was the only one doing 5 though. Something to do with the work load. I know I had to ask the Head personally for permission to do so.
  • When we did surds in the first year of Maths A-level, a couple of Chinese students [properly Chinese, they'd transferred to the UK for the latter stages of education] revealed they'd learnt them at primary school.
  • When we did surds in the first year of Maths A-level, a couple of Chinese students [properly Chinese, they'd transferred to the UK for the latter stages of education] revealed they'd learnt them at primary school.

    LOL! I struggled with surds while doing GCSES :weary:
  • I'm very much in the "got an offer from Oxford and downgraded my effort", 5 A-levels became 3 and a half and I got my lifetime only B in the half.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    edited September 2015


    the penny dropping in Germany that it;s Merkel and the Bundesrepublik who are looking isolated not Hungary.

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/merkels-worte-und-taten-in-der-fluechtlingskrise-13809039.html

    There's several interesting articles beneath the main one too on the tensions beginning to build up politically and the fact the head of the migration office in Germany has resigned "for personal reasons".

    As you says, it's starting to dawn it's going a bit Pete Tong.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662

    ONE WEEK TIL TERM STARTS

    which is why I'm in my lab, kind of working and squeezing the last bit of productivity out of my summer.

    We don't start till October, so I'm writing exam papers. Bizarrely, we have to write the exams before we teach the students, which also strikes me as rather Alice in Wonderland.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/11870991/Jeremy-Corbyn-cannot-save-Scottish-Labour-from-the-SNP.html
    If Scottish voters, even those who approve of Mr Corbyn’s politics, don’t believe he can beat David Cameron or his successor as Tory leader in 2020, they will conclude that the answer to both questions, “Who will best protect Scotland from the Tories?” and “Who stands up best for Scotland?” is the same as the answer they gave in May: the SNP.

    Tom Harris is the former Labour MP for Glasgow South.
  • TudorRose said:

    ONE WEEK TIL TERM STARTS

    which is why I'm in my lab, kind of working and squeezing the last bit of productivity out of my summer.

    We don't start till October, so I'm writing exam papers. Bizarrely, we have to write the exams before we teach the students, which also strikes me as rather Alice in Wonderland.
    I think that makes some sense, as it focuses you a bit on what you're going to cover. But there's other aspects that make less sense.

    The main bit that annoys me is the passive-aggressive nonsense from students about the exam. A good student last year got so stressed about the exams of mine she sat (firsts in both) and apparently had appeal letters drafted ready if she did less well than expected.

    That's just not right.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Interesting job title http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11870552/Labour-leader-responds-to-calls-for-spin-doctor-by-naming-a-Director-of-Rebuttal.html
    Jeremy Corbyn appointed a “director of rebuttal” after a series of gaffes which culminated in a cameraman being injured outside his home.

    Mr Corbyn’s team said he had employed Neale Coleman as his Director of Policy and Rebuttal.

    Mr Coleman has worked as an advisor to Boris Johnson and Ken Livingstone in London’s City Hall.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Cyclefree said:

    MTimT said:

    Mr. T, sounds jarringly bad, as reactions go.

    But at that stage in my life, entirely expected and of now impact on me but to give me a little story to tell.
    I got good results in my A-levels and that same summer my Italian male cousin also did his school leaving exams. His results were worse than mine and I remember being told by my aunt that I should not boast because it would make him feel bad, the implication being that he should have done better than me.

    Err, no - was my response. Which did not go down well.

    My relationship with my father was always strange. I do remember when I was about 13 getting extraordinary results that academic year, and him telling me after my somewhat exuberant reaction that people who are really good do not need to boast. On the other hand, I found from some of my teachers (he was a teacher and union president for Cyprus) that he himself was not immune from boasting about my achievements.

    I knew he had had a terrible relationship with his parents, so soon learned to put his remarks in that context. But that remark about not needing to boast has stayed with me, and I am usually very wary of doing so.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    My mother summed up her mother's attitude to stellar examination success as *shouldn't that have been in better handwriting?*

    MTimT said:

    Mr. T, sounds jarringly bad, as reactions go.

    But at that stage in my life, entirely expected and of now impact on me but to give me a little story to tell.
    ;)
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    I got into Oxford with BBBD (and 2 failed S Levels)

    I probably would have worked harder - but I was given a BBB offer - so why bother doing any more? (I am in no doubt that I was part of an affirmative action scheme to get more state school pupils into Oxford - but I did my research and found the college who wanted to work like that, so used the system)

    Ah the joys of the 1980s!

    I got mediocre A-Levels, BBC, got into Cardiff and then a 1st in Chemistry and Physics. A-Levels are not meaningful in terms of measuring intelligence. It's just a measure of how well one can memorise useless information.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662

    TudorRose said:

    ONE WEEK TIL TERM STARTS

    which is why I'm in my lab, kind of working and squeezing the last bit of productivity out of my summer.

    We don't start till October, so I'm writing exam papers. Bizarrely, we have to write the exams before we teach the students, which also strikes me as rather Alice in Wonderland.
    I think that makes some sense, as it focuses you a bit on what you're going to cover. But there's other aspects that make less sense.

    The main bit that annoys me is the passive-aggressive nonsense from students about the exam. A good student last year got so stressed about the exams of mine she sat (firsts in both) and apparently had appeal letters drafted ready if she did less well than expected.

    That's just not right.
    It sounds like we have very similar experiences. For me the oddity about the exam is that my module finishes in December but the students don't sit the exam until May. The result is that I end up having to deliver a revision session around Easter, by which time I've completely forgotten what I'm going to ask them!
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited September 2015
    I have to admit, I'm worried for Corbyn's mental wellbeing. The way he's acted this week reminds me a bit of Susan Boyle off Britain's Got Talent: it must be very difficult to adjust if you've lived your whole life one way, then are suddenly plunged into such scrutiny and pressure.
  • Speaking of AAA grades, I got A*AA in my A-Levels, (which came as a huge shock on the day). All of my subjects were essayed based ones. One thing I do hope, is that if any PBers have kids doing GCSEs and A-levels, and they do well, they don't tell their kids on results day to not celebrate because of 'grade inflation'. You can only work with what you got, and for many people I knew GCSES and A-Levels were a stressful time and not easy peasy.

    I am not worthy!

    I only got AAB - all sciences (though I was predicted an ABB)
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited September 2015
    OT though i imagine it's been discussed.

    There is nothing much more unforgivable than a news outlet getting a story wrong because of cheap shoddy and lazy research. The Rifkind and Straw stories was just such an example

    That one of the two guilty parties was 'Despatches' doesn't surprise me at all. they're famous for their second rate journalism.The BBC wouldn't have run that story in a month of Sundays.

    What does surprise me though is that Channel 4 didn't have the good grace to apologize. The Telegraph less so. Newspapers have to be dragged kicking and screaming before they admit to anything
  • Interesting job title http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11870552/Labour-leader-responds-to-calls-for-spin-doctor-by-naming-a-Director-of-Rebuttal.html

    Jeremy Corbyn appointed a “director of rebuttal” after a series of gaffes which culminated in a cameraman being injured outside his home.

    Mr Corbyn’s team said he had employed Neale Coleman as his Director of Policy and Rebuttal.

    Mr Coleman has worked as an advisor to Boris Johnson and Ken Livingstone in London’s City Hall.
    Meanwhile, Lord Prescott denies he appointed a Director of Head-Buttall :)
  • Mr. Roger, *cough*McAlpine*cough*

    Far from apologising, Dispatches is sticking firmly to its guns.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Tim_B said:

    Mr. T, glad it didn't affect you too much. Those little moments can be worth storing away, to avoid repeating them when a parent or in a mentor position later in life.

    Incidentally, my own A-levels are terrible compared to most here (CCDD, I think). Only one that annoys me is Religious Studies, where I'm convinced [told this story before] my last two exams were horrendously badly marked.

    Not compared to me - I left school the term before A levels as I was offered a job at IBM.
    More kids should do that. My brother went to the CAA when he was 16. Far better for him than sticking with A levels.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited September 2015
    Should we get him a cat called Pebbles?

    I wouldn't want to be in his shoes - but he wanted it.
    Danny565 said:

    I have to admit, I'm worried for Corbyn's mental wellbeing. The way he's acted this week reminds me a bit of Susan Boyle off Britain's Got Talent: it must be very difficult to adjust if you've lived your whole life one way, then are suddenly plunged into such scrutiny and pressure.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    MTimT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MTimT said:

    Mr. T, sounds jarringly bad, as reactions go.

    But at that stage in my life, entirely expected and of now impact on me but to give me a little story to tell.
    I got good results in my A-levels and that same summer my Italian male cousin also did his school leaving exams. His results were worse than mine and I remember being told by my aunt that I should not boast because it would make him feel bad, the implication being that he should have done better than me.

    Err, no - was my response. Which did not go down well.

    My relationship with my father was always strange. I do remember when I was about 13 getting extraordinary results that academic year, and him telling me after my somewhat exuberant reaction that people who are really good do not need to boast. On the other hand, I found from some of my teachers (he was a teacher and union president for Cyprus) that he himself was not immune from boasting about my achievements.

    I knew he had had a terrible relationship with his parents, so soon learned to put his remarks in that context. But that remark about not needing to boast has stayed with me, and I am usually very wary of doing so.
    In my professional life I've often found that some of the most exceptional people are the most humble. The more you learn - both academically and through work - the more you realise how much you still have to learn. The best people are those who are still learning, still curious, still interested until the day they stop.

    The parent seeming ho hum to the child but boasting about their achievements to others is not uncommon. Maybe it's something to do with not wanting to make their child big-headed.

    Christopher Hitchens said that his father, to whom he was not particularly close and who was very different to the rebellious, irreligious Trot Hitchens was, had kept all his articles and he learnt after his death had been proudly showing them to his friends.

  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    I teach the basics of a Fourier transform to 2nd year chemists partly as an experimental technique and partly as a way of bringing in ideas such as complex numbers and integration.

    Which is damning, as most haven't really seen those two concepts before ... :/

    Wow! We did complex numbers in Fourth Year, and integration was in the A level.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    edited September 2015
    Cyclefree said:

    MTimT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MTimT said:

    Mr. T, sounds jarringly bad, as reactions go.

    But at that stage in my life, entirely expected and of now impact on me but to give me a little story to tell.
    I got good results in my A-levels and that same summer my Italian male cousin also did his school leaving exams. His results were worse than mine and I remember being told by my aunt that I should not boast because it would make him feel bad, the implication being that he should have done better than me.

    Err, no - was my response. Which did not go down well.

    My relationship with my father was always strange. I do remember when I was about 13 getting extraordinary results that academic year, and him telling me after my somewhat exuberant reaction that people who are really good do not need to boast. On the other hand, I found from some of my teachers (he was a teacher and union president for Cyprus) that he himself was not immune from boasting about my achievements.

    I knew he had had a terrible relationship with his parents, so soon learned to put his remarks in that context. But that remark about not needing to boast has stayed with me, and I am usually very wary of doing so.
    In my professional life I've often found that some of the most exceptional people are the most humble. The more you learn - both academically and through work - the more you realise how much you still have to learn. The best people are those who are still learning, still curious, still interested until the day they stop.

    The parent seeming ho hum to the child but boasting about their achievements to others is not uncommon. Maybe it's something to do with not wanting to make their child big-headed.

    Christopher Hitchens said that his father, to whom he was not particularly close and who was very different to the rebellious, irreligious Trot Hitchens was, had kept all his articles and he learnt after his death had been proudly showing them to his friends.

    My ambition is to become so good at something that I don't feel I have to tell anyone!
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited September 2015

    I teach the basics of a Fourier transform to 2nd year chemists partly as an experimental technique and partly as a way of bringing in ideas such as complex numbers and integration.

    Which is damning, as most haven't really seen those two concepts before ... :/

    Complex numbers are really interesting.

    sqrt(-1) = i

    blew my mind when I learnt about it.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited September 2015

    Hurst, I understand from years gone by on here, that you are a fellow former maths teacher.

    I actually collect old textbooks. If you happened to have anything else in your connection let me know, especially if your other half is keen that you "have a clear out"!

    FWIW there is actually very little "mathematics discovered within the past 70 years" in any school-level syllabus in Britain. One of the few things that is in their at GCSE is new forms of data presentation, including the box plot: invented by Tukey, of FFT fame! (Like JJ I think that FFT would be a great addition to the high school syllabus, and some Further Maths syllabuses even have a numerical methods module, but sadly FFT doesn't feature.)

    The other aspect where there has been new material added is the "Decision and Discrete" modules at A-level, which includes relatively recent (within our lifetime) algorithms.

    Other things have been surprisingly static. The big shift in Applied Mathematics (i.e. Classical Mechanics) teaching was in the 1970s, when they switched to a "modern" vector notation. But this wasn't a new idea... and the notation they used was actually the i, j, k notation borrowed from Hamilton's quaternion notation back in the 1840s!

    Mr. Ears,

    I did indeed get my PGCE and launch into teaching Mathematics as a third career. Didn't last long in the state system though - found too much emphasis on process and what will Ofsted say rather than what are my pupils learning (I was as welcome as a plague rat in department meetings).

    Alas, my old maths text books went a few years ago in one of Herself's mandated clearouts - I had got rid of just about all the fiction and they were the last bit of "Fat" to trim before I hit the bone of history books and personal papers. So alas I have none than I can give you.

    I suppose, thinking on it, discrete & decision maths was what I was thinking about when I said new material. So maybe I was a tad over the top on that line. I dunno, that old text book I spoke of included calculus, not something we expect from 14 years olds these days. There again some of the stuff which is included in the GCSE syllabus for 14 year olds now is also covered at primary school (my son had to do fractions three bloody times).
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11872750/David-Cameron-Jeremy-Corbyn-will-get-nowhere-near-power.html
    Speaking at Lancaster House this afternoon, the Prime Minister said the new Labour leader was a "throwback" to the 1980s, when the Labour party called for "nationalisation, nuclear disarmament and more powers for the trade unions."

    Mr Cameron said: "Frankly it is a throwback that we now have a Labour leader who believes these things, but I think the British people have moved along way away from that.

    "I am confident the sort of leadership you are seeing from the Labour party at the moment will get nowhere near power."

    Mr Cameron said he though it "was a good thing for Britain" when Labour gave up those ideas and there was a consensus that Labour were going to be "socialist democratic party."

    The Prime Minister said he was certain that his government could win these arguments "all over again" with a generation who "don't remember what happened when you pursued these policies."
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    isam said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MTimT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MTimT said:

    Mr. T, sounds jarringly bad, as reactions go.

    But at that stage in my life, entirely expected and of now impact on me but to give me a little story to tell.
    I got good results in my A-levels and that same summer my Italian male cousin also did his school leaving exams. His results were worse than mine and I remember being told by my aunt that I should not boast because it would make him feel bad, the implication being that he should have done better than me.

    Err, no - was my response. Which did not go down well.

    My relationship with my father was always strange. I do remember when I was about 13 getting extraordinary results that academic year, and him telling me after my somewhat exuberant reaction that people who are really good do not need to boast. On the other hand, I found from some of my teachers (he was a teacher and union president for Cyprus) that he himself was not immune from boasting about my achievements.

    I knew he had had a terrible relationship with his parents, so soon learned to put his remarks in that context. But that remark about not needing to boast has stayed with me, and I am usually very wary of doing so.
    In my professional life I've often found that some of the most exceptional people are the most humble. The more you learn - both academically and through work - the more you realise how much you still have to learn. The best people are those who are still learning, still curious, still interested until the day they stop.

    The parent seeming ho hum to the child but boasting about their achievements to others is not uncommon. Maybe it's something to do with not wanting to make their child big-headed.

    Christopher Hitchens said that his father, to whom he was not particularly close and who was very different to the rebellious, irreligious Trot Hitchens was, had kept all his articles and he learnt after his death had been proudly showing them to his friends.

    My ambition is to become so good at something that I don't feel I have to tell anyone!
    Indeed
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    MTimT said:

    I teach the basics of a Fourier transform to 2nd year chemists partly as an experimental technique and partly as a way of bringing in ideas such as complex numbers and integration.

    Which is damning, as most haven't really seen those two concepts before ... :/

    Wow! We did complex numbers in Fourth Year, and integration was in the A level.
    I never had a problem with math - I could never get my head around valency in chemistry for some reason.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Man identified as Rafik Y, who had been convicted in 2008 plot to murder Iraqi PM, stabbed a policewoman in western Berlin before being shot dead today
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961

    Interesting job title http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11870552/Labour-leader-responds-to-calls-for-spin-doctor-by-naming-a-Director-of-Rebuttal.html

    Jeremy Corbyn appointed a “director of rebuttal” after a series of gaffes which culminated in a cameraman being injured outside his home.

    Mr Corbyn’s team said he had employed Neale Coleman as his Director of Policy and Rebuttal.

    Mr Coleman has worked as an advisor to Boris Johnson and Ken Livingstone in London’s City Hall.
    Meanwhile, Lord Prescott denies he appointed a Director of Head-Buttall :)

    And Diane Abbot certainly hasn't appointed a Director of Bubble-Buttal....
  • Mr. SE, had to check for the formula, but I remember[ish] learning e to the power of (pi multiplied by i) plus one being zero. That's bizarrely neat.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I found Chemistry really easy to pick up - but Physics, never in a millennium of Sundays.
    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    I teach the basics of a Fourier transform to 2nd year chemists partly as an experimental technique and partly as a way of bringing in ideas such as complex numbers and integration.

    Which is damning, as most haven't really seen those two concepts before ... :/

    Wow! We did complex numbers in Fourth Year, and integration was in the A level.
    I never had a problem with math - I could never get my head around valency in chemistry for some reason.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    Man identified as Rafik Y, who had been convicted in 2008 plot to murder Iraqi PM, stabbed a policewoman in western Berlin before being shot dead today

    It begins...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961
    isam said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MTimT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MTimT said:

    Mr. T, sounds jarringly bad, as reactions go.

    But at that stage in my life, entirely expected and of now impact on me but to give me a little story to tell.
    I got good results in my A-levels and that same summer my Italian male cousin also did his school leaving exams. His results were worse than mine and I remember being told by my aunt that I should not boast because it would make him feel bad, the implication being that he should have done better than me.

    Err, no - was my response. Which did not go down well.

    My relationship with my father was always strange. I do remember when I was about 13 getting extraordinary results that academic year, and him telling me after my somewhat exuberant reaction that people who are really good do not need to boast. On the other hand, I found from some of my teachers (he was a teacher and union president for Cyprus) that he himself was not immune from boasting about my achievements.

    I knew he had had a terrible relationship with his parents, so soon learned to put his remarks in that context. But that remark about not needing to boast has stayed with me, and I am usually very wary of doing so.
    In my professional life I've often found that some of the most exceptional people are the most humble. The more you learn - both academically and through work - the more you realise how much you still have to learn. The best people are those who are still learning, still curious, still interested until the day they stop.

    The parent seeming ho hum to the child but boasting about their achievements to others is not uncommon. Maybe it's something to do with not wanting to make their child big-headed.

    Christopher Hitchens said that his father, to whom he was not particularly close and who was very different to the rebellious, irreligious Trot Hitchens was, had kept all his articles and he learnt after his death had been proudly showing them to his friends.

    My ambition is to become so good at something that I don't feel I have to tell anyone!
    It is quite easy to get the impression that most folk here have already reached that position...
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    MTimT said:

    isam said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MTimT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MTimT said:

    Mr. T, sounds jarringly bad, as reactions go.

    But at that stage in my life, entirely expected and of now impact on me but to give me a little story to tell.
    I got good results in my A-levels and that same summer my Italian male cousin also did his school leaving exams. His results were worse than mine and I remember being told by my aunt that I should not boast because it would make him feel bad, the implication being that he should have done better than me.

    Err, no - was my response. Which did not go down well.

    My relationship with my father was always strange. I do remember when I was about 13 getting extraordinary results that academic year, and him telling me after my somewhat exuberant reaction that people who are really good do not need to boast. On the other hand, I found from some of my teachers (he was a teacher and union president for Cyprus) that he himself was not immune from boasting about my achievements.

    I knew he had had a terrible relationship with his parents, so soon learned to put his remarks in that context. But that remark about not needing to boast has stayed with me, and I am usually very wary of doing so.
    In my professional life I've often found that some of the most exceptional people are the most humble. The more you learn - both academically and through work - the more you realise how much you still have to learn. The best people are those who are still learning, still curious, still interested until the day they stop.

    The parent seeming ho hum to the child but boasting about their achievements to others is not uncommon. Maybe it's something to do with not wanting to make their child big-headed.

    Christopher Hitchens said that his father, to whom he was not particularly close and who was very different to the rebellious, irreligious Trot Hitchens was, had kept all his articles and he learnt after his death had been proudly showing them to his friends.

    My ambition is to become so good at something that I don't feel I have to tell anyone!
    Indeed
    Actually one thing I notice about a lot of top faces in the betting game is they only talk about the losers/bad runs.. its normally the wannabes that boast how much they are winning
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    Still got my "Guessing stick", and could probably still use it,yes I am an engineer and did my Uni stuff before calculators, but we did have computers,learning Fortran etc, and even analogue computers,building electronic circuits to simulate a process etc.
    OK Guessing stick was the slide rule, it gave you the numbers, but not the decimal point, you had to guess that, or do the maths in your head and know approx the answer.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    Man identified as Rafik Y, who had been convicted in 2008 plot to murder Iraqi PM, stabbed a policewoman in western Berlin before being shot dead today

    Convicted where? And why, with such a conviction, was he not in prison?
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    I found Chemistry really easy to pick up - but Physics, never in a millennium of Sundays.

    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    I teach the basics of a Fourier transform to 2nd year chemists partly as an experimental technique and partly as a way of bringing in ideas such as complex numbers and integration.

    Which is damning, as most haven't really seen those two concepts before ... :/

    Wow! We did complex numbers in Fourth Year, and integration was in the A level.
    I never had a problem with math - I could never get my head around valency in chemistry for some reason.
    I loved Physics, but chemistry was dry and bookish to me.
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