Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » One year on from the Indyref: Why Scottish Independence mig

SystemSystem Posts: 5,841
edited September 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » One year on from the Indyref: Why Scottish Independence might be in Labour’s best interests

One of the key elements in my opinion that helped the Tories win a majority in May rather than just being the largest party in a hung parliament was their ruthless approach when it came to Ed Miliband and the likelihood of the SNP propping up a Labour led coalition.

Read the full story here


«1345

Comments

  • JackWJackW Posts: 13,296
    Good Morning PB Comrades Worldwide.
  • Bourn election result:

    Simon Crocker CON(579)
    Jeni Sawford LD(247)
    Gavin Clayton LAB(235)
    Helene Green UKIP(121)
    Marcus Pitcaithly GREEN(64)

    Turnout a miserly 15.27%.

    Nowhere near as close as I was expecting.

    https://twitter.com/SouthCambs?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,406
    OT - Not sure the premise is right. Labour lost in May primarily because of their economic policies and crap leader. Plus ca change......
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 16,437
    Daft thread, maybe you should make the next one "Why ditching London may be in the Conservatives best interest"

    If our politicos solution to not getting elected is gerrymandering then we should sack the lot and get new ones.
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,406
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/11871182/Lidl-to-become-first-British-supermarket-to-pay-Living-Wage.html

    In fact I thought Sainsbury's and others have also increased pay in line with the budget recommendations. All very good news for the low paid - as well as getting taxpayers off the hook with tax credit/wage subsidies. Ozzy rocks! :)
  • Morning all.

    Not sure I’m in favour of lopping off bits of the UK, just to assist any party, quite frankly.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 32,226
    edited September 2015

    Morning all.

    Not sure I’m in favour of lopping off bits of the UK, just to assist any party, quite frankly.

    More in favour of adding bits to the UK though. Now, how Tory is Crécy? :D
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108


    Turnout a miserly 15.27%.

    Is that a record?

    Cos it sounds PCC level of turnout.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,420
    felix said:
    I liked this line.

    The review will not be completed until later this year. It is expected not to direct blame at Mr Clegg or Lord (Paddy) Ashdown, who ran the election campaign, or to argue that the Lib Dems lacked money.

    Ok, so it wasn't the leadership, and it wasn't the campaign team, and it wasn't resourcing.

    So who's left to blame... Fatcha?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 19,537
    edited September 2015
    Dair said:


    Turnout a miserly 15.27%.

    Is that a record?

    Cos it sounds PCC level of turnout.
    Very much doubt it's a record for locals when the are split from other elections. There was very little publicity locally.

    Wasn't there a parliamentary by-election in the last parliament where someone got elected with 18-19% of the vote?

    Edit: it was Lucy Powell:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_Powell

    How different GE2015 might have been if she had never been elected to parliament ...
  • The front page of the Independent looks a little disconcerting today. – “Britain to genetically modify human embryos” immediately below a large picture of Alex Salmond.

    Cloned Nats anyone?
  • But it's ok, Labour are making amends now.

    I mean, it's not as if they now have some of their most senior MPs calling EVEL "racist" or anything ludicrous like that anymore.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,839
    @ScottyNational: Happy #onescotlandday :Scottish holiday when people show how the ref united Scotland by sending abuse to people of different political views
  • Scotland is a huge distraction for Labour. And it seems that Corbyn wants to make winning back Scotland and shoring up the Labour position in Wales a priority.

    Eh?

    Both are huge distractions. Even if successful, exchanging one SNP MP for one Labour MP won't make an iota of difference to the power balance in the Commons. If Labour aren't smart enough to work that out, the main advantage of Scottish independence is that it'd *force* them to focus on England, and probably move to the Right too.

    Meanwhile, the Tories - although still earnestly unionist - will continue to be the de-facto English party.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,022

    Bourn election result:

    Simon Crocker CON(579)
    Jeni Sawford LD(247)
    Gavin Clayton LAB(235)
    Helene Green UKIP(121)
    Marcus Pitcaithly GREEN(64)

    Turnout a miserly 15.27%.

    Nowhere near as close as I was expecting.

    https://twitter.com/SouthCambs?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    If there’s a loser in last night’s votes it seems to be UKIP!
  • Charles said:

    felix said:
    I liked this line.

    The review will not be completed until later this year. It is expected not to direct blame at Mr Clegg or Lord (Paddy) Ashdown, who ran the election campaign, or to argue that the Lib Dems lacked money.

    Ok, so it wasn't the leadership, and it wasn't the campaign team, and it wasn't resourcing.

    So who's left to blame... Fatcha?
    I hear Marquee Mark is in line for a lot of criticism.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    The front page of the Independent looks a little disconcerting today. – “Britain to genetically modify human embryos” immediately below a large picture of Alex Salmond.

    Cloned Nats anyone?

    Does Eck have plans for a clone army? I forsee problems...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,839
    Charles said:

    So who's left to blame... Fatcha?

    The Edstone.

    Apparently it had the same effect on Lib Dem voters as The Vow had on Indeyref voters...
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 5,492
    edited September 2015

    Bourn election result:

    Simon Crocker CON(579)
    Jeni Sawford LD(247)
    Gavin Clayton LAB(235)
    Helene Green UKIP(121)
    Marcus Pitcaithly GREEN(64)

    Turnout a miserly 15.27%.

    Nowhere near as close as I was expecting.

    https://twitter.com/SouthCambs?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    If there’s a loser in last night’s votes it seems to be UKIP!
    No NO NO myboy, you are not reading the script... NPEXMP was posting last night about Green votes going to Labour in Haringey, though it won't win Labour an election, most likely pile up more votes in Labour seats.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,839
    The steady exam improvement in England has seen no equivalent in Scotland, which is now the worst place in Britain to be poor and bright. Next month, almost one in five English students from poor backgrounds will go to university – twice the level of poor Scots. Lucy Hunter Blackburn, a former civil servant who crunched the numbers in an Edinburgh University study, puts it starkly. The SNP’s abolition of tuition fees helps rich families, she says, she says, and grants for poor students are lower. So the SNP “is actively reinforcing inherited inequalities in wealth. It’s that simple.”

    The SNP’s great policing experiment – merging eight constabularies into one nationwide force – has also become a case study in what not to do.

    If Theresa May’s flagship police reform had gone so badly, she would be an ex-Home Secretary. But things are different in Scotland. The SNP is adept at changing the topic of conversation to one it prefers and dodging the scrutiny it deserves.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11873099/Cameron-must-wake-up-the-battle-for-Scotland-and-the-Union-is-still-being-fought.html
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,839
    Hmm...maybe its because I'm a Unionist but I don't agree. What Scotland does, and has done for the last 40 years, is make it more difficult for the Conservatives to get a majority in the Commons. SNP seats are not Labour seats but they certainly are not Conservative supporting seats.

    There is a sharp contrast with that former party, the Lib Dems. Their position was that whoever won the most seats had earned the right to rule. The SNP do not think that way and would have no problem propping up a smaller Labour party to keep the Tories out.

    What Labour need to do is address the underlying problem shown by those posters. The underlying problem was that Ed was pathetic and could easily be pushed around in favour of a sectional interest who many in England thought were already getting more than a fair crack of the whip.

    I expect John McDonnell to try and make common cause with the SNP in his anti-austerity campaign: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ive-known-john-mcdonnell-for-30-years--heres-what-hes-really-like-10500246.html His job, whether he chooses to accept it or not, is to persuade the English that Nicola is not that scary and that a fair settlement can be reached. This really should not be beyond the wit of man. It was the useless Labour response to this attack that caused the problem, not the attack itself. With so much less to lose in Scotland it should be a lot easier for them the next time.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Bourn election result:

    Simon Crocker CON(579)
    Jeni Sawford LD(247)
    Gavin Clayton LAB(235)
    Helene Green UKIP(121)
    Marcus Pitcaithly GREEN(64)

    Turnout a miserly 15.27%.

    Nowhere near as close as I was expecting.

    https://twitter.com/SouthCambs?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    If there’s a loser in last night’s votes it seems to be UKIP!
    No NO NO myboy, you are not reading the script... NPEXMP was posting last night about Green votes going to Labour in Haringey, though it won't win Labour an election, most likely pile up more votes in Labour seats.
    LDs were also up in Haringey, and baby eaters too.

    In Bourn it doesn't look as if LD or UKIP stood last time.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,839
    DavidL said:

    I expect John McDonnell to try and make common cause with the SNP in his anti-austerity campaign: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ive-known-john-mcdonnell-for-30-years--heres-what-hes-really-like-10500246.html His job, whether he chooses to accept it or not, is to persuade the English that Nicola is not that scary and that a fair settlement can be reached. This really should not be beyond the wit of man. It was the useless Labour response to this attack that caused the problem, not the attack itself. With so much less to lose in Scotland it should be a lot easier for them the next time.

    But Nicola has already said that Labour under Corbyn can't beat the Tories
  • What a bizarre article!

    Labour is a British party.

    The best thing for its prospects is not to break-up the country but to have a credible, non-toxic leadership and a set of coherent policies.
  • The event during the election that made me first think the LD's knew they were onto a worse than predicted result was in the final days Clegg appeared on the media shouting about "Tory lies" regarding how they could win a majority by winning however many seats. That the Tories were lying because they knew they couldn't win that many seats.

    Clegg looked nasty, angry and desperate which was not normal for him. I don't believe he was as ignorant of the upcoming results until after 10pm on election night as has been made out.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,839
    @LleuW: Anyone pouring over #indyref one year onwards should read this great piece by @JamieRoss7 http://t.co/tIaNZbVxts
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,839
    Scott_P said:

    The steady exam improvement in England has seen no equivalent in Scotland, which is now the worst place in Britain to be poor and bright. Next month, almost one in five English students from poor backgrounds will go to university – twice the level of poor Scots. Lucy Hunter Blackburn, a former civil servant who crunched the numbers in an Edinburgh University study, puts it starkly. The SNP’s abolition of tuition fees helps rich families, she says, she says, and grants for poor students are lower. So the SNP “is actively reinforcing inherited inequalities in wealth. It’s that simple.”

    The SNP’s great policing experiment – merging eight constabularies into one nationwide force – has also become a case study in what not to do.

    If Theresa May’s flagship police reform had gone so badly, she would be an ex-Home Secretary. But things are different in Scotland. The SNP is adept at changing the topic of conversation to one it prefers and dodging the scrutiny it deserves.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11873099/Cameron-must-wake-up-the-battle-for-Scotland-and-the-Union-is-still-being-fought.html

    Yep, my daughter has just started her law degree at Edinburgh this week. She says it is incredibly posh and just like being at Dundee High. She will leave University with no fee related debt, hopefully to go on to a solid middle class career. How is this helping social mobility in Scotland exactly?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 28,305
    edited September 2015
    FPT:

    So much for the 'game changing' Vow:

    [Prof Curtice said] "It's not clear The Vow made much difference, not least because if you actually looked at the detail of the opinion poll often regarded as being responsible for it - The YouGov poll for the Sunday Times - you can see very clearly from that poll that among those people whose first preference was more devolution - the group to which the Unionists were then trying to appeal - were already between five and six-to-one saying they were going to vote 'No'.
    And Prof Mitchell said: "A great deal is claimed about The Vow that it shifted opinion. We've had a look at this and we simply can't find any evidence that it really had that impact."


    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34274044

    On topic.

    Nay! Nay! And Thrice Nay!

    Scotland is in Labour's DNA - and London Labour will never reconnect with Working Class England if Scotland is amputated - it will end up a minority party of the Public Sector Middle Class, the sort of people who would select Corbyn for leader....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,839
    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    I expect John McDonnell to try and make common cause with the SNP in his anti-austerity campaign: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ive-known-john-mcdonnell-for-30-years--heres-what-hes-really-like-10500246.html His job, whether he chooses to accept it or not, is to persuade the English that Nicola is not that scary and that a fair settlement can be reached. This really should not be beyond the wit of man. It was the useless Labour response to this attack that caused the problem, not the attack itself. With so much less to lose in Scotland it should be a lot easier for them the next time.

    But Nicola has already said that Labour under Corbyn can't beat the Tories
    Well she would say that wouldn't she (and it is obviously true). But it doesn't mean that they can't make common ground. The SNP love fantasy economics.
  • DavidL said:

    I expect John McDonnell to try and make common cause with the SNP in his anti-austerity campaign: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ive-known-john-mcdonnell-for-30-years--heres-what-hes-really-like-10500246.html His job, whether he chooses to accept it or not, is to persuade the English that Nicola is not that scary and that a fair settlement can be reached. This really should not be beyond the wit of man. It was the useless Labour response to this attack that caused the problem, not the attack itself. With so much less to lose in Scotland it should be a lot easier for them the next time.

    The problem with that is that Labour is between a rock and a hard place. They don't want to give up on their Scottish heartlands and admit they're gone - but attacking the SNP reinforces that even Labour think the SNP is scary to the English electorate; while trying to calm English fears of the SNP to the Scots by saying how well Labour and SNP can work together will reinforce SNP incumbency. They're being squeezed on two fronts and whichever way they turn will hurt their other one.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,839
    Ms Sturgeon is now trying to engineer a position in which the SNP manifesto for Holyrood gives her the mandate to hold a second referendum, but leaves the final decision on whether to go ahead entirely in her hands.

    This is a woman with unprecedented power. And yet she lacks the confidence to let her own party members have a proper debate on the SNP’s defining aim: Scottish independence. Instead, she is having to work hard to demonstrate that there will be no sell-out, no betrayal, and therefore no need for a rebellion.

    “Trust me,” she is telling them. But trust is a two-way street. And in its dealings with its own members the SNP leadership is showing a lack of trust that is certainly complacent and is bordering on contempt.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article4560365.ece
  • DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    I expect John McDonnell to try and make common cause with the SNP in his anti-austerity campaign: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ive-known-john-mcdonnell-for-30-years--heres-what-hes-really-like-10500246.html His job, whether he chooses to accept it or not, is to persuade the English that Nicola is not that scary and that a fair settlement can be reached. This really should not be beyond the wit of man. It was the useless Labour response to this attack that caused the problem, not the attack itself. With so much less to lose in Scotland it should be a lot easier for them the next time.

    But Nicola has already said that Labour under Corbyn can't beat the Tories
    Well she would say that wouldn't she (and it is obviously true). But it doesn't mean that they can't make common ground. The SNP love fantasy economics.
    How will that appeal to the English though? And how do you deal with the fact that the SNP would insist the fantasy economics are to the benefit of north of the border?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,839
    @oflynnmep: So John McDonnell does not apologise for 12 years and then when his views start hampering his career he does.
  • FPT:

    So much for the 'game changing' Vow:

    [Prof Curtice said] "It's not clear The Vow made much difference, not least because if you actually looked at the detail of the opinion poll often regarded as being responsible for it - The YouGov poll for the Sunday Times - you can see very clearly from that poll that among those people whose first preference was more devolution - the group to which the Unionists were then trying to appeal - were already between five and six-to-one saying they were going to vote 'No'.
    And Prof Mitchell said: "A great deal is claimed about The Vow that it shifted opinion. We've had a look at this and we simply can't find any evidence that it really had that impact."


    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34274044

    Why should that surprise anyone? There was plenty of polling virtually all putting No in the lead, while the one that got so much attention putting Yes in the lead was clearly in hindsight a rogue poll.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,839

    The event during the election that made me first think the LD's knew they were onto a worse than predicted result was in the final days Clegg appeared on the media shouting about "Tory lies" regarding how they could win a majority by winning however many seats. That the Tories were lying because they knew they couldn't win that many seats.

    Clegg looked nasty, angry and desperate which was not normal for him. I don't believe he was as ignorant of the upcoming results until after 10pm on election night as has been made out.

    Yes, I remember that, he did look desperate. It was a straw in the wind like Ed going to the most marginal Tory seat (which they didn't take) which I and others commented on at the time.

    What I find interesting is how superior the centrally directed phone banked campaigning proved to be to the traditional local campaign by a well known face. I have never believed the ground game was as important as some claimed but it seems to be positively archaic after 2015.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,839

    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    I expect John McDonnell to try and make common cause with the SNP in his anti-austerity campaign: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ive-known-john-mcdonnell-for-30-years--heres-what-hes-really-like-10500246.html His job, whether he chooses to accept it or not, is to persuade the English that Nicola is not that scary and that a fair settlement can be reached. This really should not be beyond the wit of man. It was the useless Labour response to this attack that caused the problem, not the attack itself. With so much less to lose in Scotland it should be a lot easier for them the next time.

    But Nicola has already said that Labour under Corbyn can't beat the Tories
    Well she would say that wouldn't she (and it is obviously true). But it doesn't mean that they can't make common ground. The SNP love fantasy economics.
    How will that appeal to the English though? And how do you deal with the fact that the SNP would insist the fantasy economics are to the benefit of north of the border?
    There are lots of English who believe in fantasy economics. Those who voted Labour, green and many who didn't vote at all. I don't believe it will be enough but if we have another recession by 2020 who knows?

    The second question is dealt with by having a pre-election accord. Ed's refusal to speak to the SNP made the uncertainty and perceived threat much worse.

    The slight flaw in my argument is that there is every sign Ed was a towering genius compared to Corbyn but that is a problem for Labour that is not caused by Scotland.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 40,467
    edited September 2015
    Under Corbyn losing Scotland would certainly not be in their interests as Labour is likely to poll very badly in England and Wales outside the inner cities. Glasgow and the Central belt is one of the few areas in the UK Corbyn could produce any increase on the 2015 Labour vote
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 8,078
    Clearly with a turnout of 15% , the outcome is not valid. I heard somewhere you need at least 50% now.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,839
    HYUFD said:

    Under Corbyn losing Scotland would certainly not be in their interests as Labour is likely to poll very badly in England and Wales outside the inner cities. Glasgow and the Central belt is one of the few areas in the UK Corbyn could produce any increase on the 2015 Labour vote

    More votes, pretty much no more seats, that is the problem Labour face in Scotland. Most of their former seats suffered 20% swings and are now safe SNP. A modest rise in their vote would achieve almost nothing.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 9,065
    edited September 2015
    I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.

    'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news

    'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day

    'Did his lips move during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days

    Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate news is to visit the dark net

    It's frankly pathetic



  • Bourn election result:

    Simon Crocker CON(579)
    Jeni Sawford LD(247)
    Gavin Clayton LAB(235)
    Helene Green UKIP(121)
    Marcus Pitcaithly GREEN(64)

    Turnout a miserly 15.27%.

    Nowhere near as close as I was expecting.

    https://twitter.com/SouthCambs?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    If there’s a loser in last night’s votes it seems to be UKIP!
    No NO NO myboy, you are not reading the script... NPEXMP was posting last night about Green votes going to Labour in Haringey, though it won't win Labour an election, most likely pile up more votes in Labour seats.
    LDs were also up in Haringey, and baby eaters too.

    In Bourn it doesn't look as if LD or UKIP stood last time.

    The last time this particular seat was elected was 2014. David Morgan (Con) won. There were also UKIP and Lib Dem representatives: we went to the hustings! The Lib Dem was from another village (Milton) some distance away, whilst the UKIP candidate (now sadly deceased) was an ex-Conservative councillor. The Green candidate was a frankly awful woman who put Mrs J totally off voting for her within a few words ...

    I'm a bit peeved with the local Conservatives. Morgan served as a councillor in this ward a few years ago, but resigned his seat in ?2011? as he was working abroad. He stood for election again in 2014 and said he was settling in this country. A little over a year later, and he's abroad again.

    IMO he (or the Conservatives) should pay the cost of the election. Resigning once for work reasons is fair enough. Resigning twice is taking the p*ss ...
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 8,078
    Roger said:

    I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.

    'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news

    'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day

    'Did his lips nmove during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days

    Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate reporting is to visit the dark net

    It's frankly pathetic



    Our press is bad, but at least we do not have Trump and his big wall.
  • Jonathan said:

    Clearly with a turnout of 15% , the outcome is not valid. I heard somewhere you need at least 50% now.

    Different elections can have different rules. Unless you are saying there should only ever be one set of rules for elections, whatever the organisation?

    Besides, I'm in favour of compulsory voting, with caveats. That'll stop the problem ... ;)
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 6,466

    DavidL said:

    I expect John McDonnell to try and make common cause with the SNP in his anti-austerity campaign: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ive-known-john-mcdonnell-for-30-years--heres-what-hes-really-like-10500246.html His job, whether he chooses to accept it or not, is to persuade the English that Nicola is not that scary and that a fair settlement can be reached. This really should not be beyond the wit of man. It was the useless Labour response to this attack that caused the problem, not the attack itself. With so much less to lose in Scotland it should be a lot easier for them the next time.

    The problem with that is that Labour is between a rock and a hard place. They don't want to give up on their Scottish heartlands and admit they're gone - but attacking the SNP reinforces that even Labour think the SNP is scary to the English electorate; while trying to calm English fears of the SNP to the Scots by saying how well Labour and SNP can work together will reinforce SNP incumbency. They're being squeezed on two fronts and whichever way they turn will hurt their other one.
    Good morning all. When it comes to Scotland, Labour is in zugzwang.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 6,466
    Roger said:

    I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.

    'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news

    'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day

    'Did his lips move during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days

    Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate news is to visit the dark net

    It's frankly pathetic



    Roger hatin' on the English. It must be daylight outside.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 5,492
    Roger said:

    I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.

    'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news

    'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day

    'Did his lips nmove during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days

    Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate reporting is to visit the dark net

    It's frankly pathetic



    Its what made Britain great Roger, Attention to detail. Corbyn's disrespect and lack of dress sense needs noting. He would be a laughing stock on the foreign stage(not that he isn't already)

    But being a luvvie , one cannot expect you to understand.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 40,467
    edited September 2015
    DavidL said:

    The event during the election that made me first think the LD's knew they were onto a worse than predicted result was in the final days Clegg appeared on the media shouting about "Tory lies" regarding how they could win a majority by winning however many seats. That the Tories were lying because they knew they couldn't win that many seats.

    Clegg looked nasty, angry and desperate which was not normal for him. I don't believe he was as ignorant of the upcoming results until after 10pm on election night as has been made out.

    Yes, I remember that, he did look desperate. It was a straw in the wind like Ed going to the most marginal Tory seat (which they didn't take) which I and others commented on at the time.

    What I find interesting is how superior the centrally directed phone banked campaigning proved to be to the traditional local campaign by a well known face. I have never believed the ground game was as important as some claimed but it seems to be positively archaic after 2015.
    DavidL said:

    The event during the election that made me first think the LD's knew they were onto a worse than predicted result was in the final days Clegg appeared on the media shouting about "Tory lies" regarding how they could win a majority by winning however many seats. That the Tories were lying because they knew they couldn't win that many seats.

    Clegg looked nasty, angry and desperate which was not normal for him. I don't believe he was as ignorant of the upcoming results until after 10pm on election night as has been made out.

    Yes, I remember that, he did look desperate. It was a straw in the wind like Ed going to the most marginal Tory seat (which they didn't take) which I and others commented on at the time.

    What I find interesting is how superior the centrally directed phone banked campaigning proved to be to the traditional local campaign by a well known face. I have never believed the ground game was as important as some claimed but it seems to be positively archaic after 2015.
    Tim Farron, Norman Lamb, Caroline Lucas, Douglas Carswell, Gisela Stewart, Jamie Davies, Justin Tomlinson all examples of well known local figures who did better than the national average for their parties in marginals thanks to ground game
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 8,078

    Roger said:

    I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.

    'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news

    'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day

    'Did his lips nmove during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days

    Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate reporting is to visit the dark net

    It's frankly pathetic



    Its what made Britain great Roger, Attention to detail. Corbyn's disrespect and lack of dress sense needs noting. He would be a laughing stock on the foreign stage(not that he isn't already)

    But being a luvvie , one cannot expect you to understand.
    Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.
  • FPT:

    So much for the 'game changing' Vow:

    [Prof Curtice said] "It's not clear The Vow made much difference, not least because if you actually looked at the detail of the opinion poll often regarded as being responsible for it - The YouGov poll for the Sunday Times - you can see very clearly from that poll that among those people whose first preference was more devolution - the group to which the Unionists were then trying to appeal - were already between five and six-to-one saying they were going to vote 'No'.
    And Prof Mitchell said: "A great deal is claimed about The Vow that it shifted opinion. We've had a look at this and we simply can't find any evidence that it really had that impact."


    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34274044

    Why should that surprise anyone? There was plenty of polling virtually all putting No in the lead, while the one that got so much attention putting Yes in the lead was clearly in hindsight a rogue poll.
    It shouldn't.

    But its central to the SNP narrative of

    - 'We only lost because of the vow' (not true)
    - The Vow has not been delivered (can't pin them down on specifics - Cameron tried and they ran away)
    - Therefore the only solution is another once in a generation SindyRef
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,420
    Jonathan said:

    Clearly with a turnout of 15% , the outcome is not valid. I heard somewhere you need at least 50% now.

    Depends what you are trying to determine.

    Different questions have different thresholds for relevance
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 8,078
    Charles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Clearly with a turnout of 15% , the outcome is not valid. I heard somewhere you need at least 50% now.

    Depends what you are trying to determine.

    Different questions have different thresholds for relevance
    Given the importance of govt, you're clearly arguing for a higher threshold for elected officials.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 16,437
    Roger said:

    I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.

    'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news

    'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day

    'Did his lips move during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days

    Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate news is to visit the dark net

    It's frankly pathetic



    Have you ever been to France ?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 12,950
    edited September 2015
    Jonathan said:

    Clearly with a turnout of 15% , the outcome is not valid. I heard somewhere you need at least 50% now.

    There's a difference because every adult is eligible to vote in an election. Only employees are eligible to vote in a strike ballot (not customers or employers who are both affected).

    Give Tube customers a vote on whether there's to be a Tube strike and drop the turnout requirement if you wish. Except you know what the answer would be.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 8,078

    Jonathan said:

    Clearly with a turnout of 15% , the outcome is not valid. I heard somewhere you need at least 50% now.

    There's a difference because every adult is eligible to vote in an election. Only employees are eligible to vote in a strike ballot (not customers or employers who are both affected).

    That's a good candidate for the weakest argument ever mounted on pb.com.

    It curious that the Tories demand a lower turnout threshold for the election of the Prime Minister than union ballots.
  • FPT:

    So much for the 'game changing' Vow:

    [Prof Curtice said] "It's not clear The Vow made much difference, not least because if you actually looked at the detail of the opinion poll often regarded as being responsible for it - The YouGov poll for the Sunday Times - you can see very clearly from that poll that among those people whose first preference was more devolution - the group to which the Unionists were then trying to appeal - were already between five and six-to-one saying they were going to vote 'No'.
    And Prof Mitchell said: "A great deal is claimed about The Vow that it shifted opinion. We've had a look at this and we simply can't find any evidence that it really had that impact."


    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34274044

    Why should that surprise anyone? There was plenty of polling virtually all putting No in the lead, while the one that got so much attention putting Yes in the lead was clearly in hindsight a rogue poll.
    It shouldn't.

    But its central to the SNP narrative of

    - 'We only lost because of the vow' (not true)
    - The Vow has not been delivered (can't pin them down on specifics - Cameron tried and they ran away)
    - Therefore the only solution is another once in a generation SindyRef
    The SNP would be idiots to push a second referendum now. A second referendum would not be a once in a generation event, as in Quebec a second one would be a final once in a lifetime one.

    Ask the same question now and you'll get the same question. They need to wait a few years and change things before they call a second vote only once they should win it. Which they won't now.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 5,492
    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:

    I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.

    'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news

    'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day

    'Did his lips nmove during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days

    Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate reporting is to visit the dark net

    It's frankly pathetic



    Its what made Britain great Roger, Attention to detail. Corbyn's disrespect and lack of dress sense needs noting. He would be a laughing stock on the foreign stage(not that he isn't already)

    But being a luvvie , one cannot expect you to understand.
    Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.
    You are absolutely wrong. The general population want to dress casually, but if our politicians on official duty did so, you would be deafened by the chorus of disapproval from the gen public..(not just the media). as Corbyn found out.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 8,078

    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:

    I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.

    'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news

    'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day

    'Did his lips nmove during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days

    Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate reporting is to visit the dark net

    It's frankly pathetic



    Its what made Britain great Roger, Attention to detail. Corbyn's disrespect and lack of dress sense needs noting. He would be a laughing stock on the foreign stage(not that he isn't already)

    But being a luvvie , one cannot expect you to understand.
    Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.
    You are absolutely wrong. The general population want to dress casually, but if our politicians on official duty did so, you would be deafened by the chorus of disapproval from the gen public..(not just the media). as Corbyn found out.
    It was hardly deafening. It was few editors and political opponents on social media looking for a way to knock Corbyn. It was sad and anachronistic.

  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I missed QT, is there anything left of Corbyn's New Old Labour radical agenda?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,604

    Charles said:

    felix said:
    I liked this line.

    The review will not be completed until later this year. It is expected not to direct blame at Mr Clegg or Lord (Paddy) Ashdown, who ran the election campaign, or to argue that the Lib Dems lacked money.

    Ok, so it wasn't the leadership, and it wasn't the campaign team, and it wasn't resourcing.

    So who's left to blame... Fatcha?
    I hear Marquee Mark is in line for a lot of criticism.
    ;-)
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    The SNP have a right to be in a coalition but the electorate have a right to judge other parties going into coalition with them.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 40,467
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Under Corbyn losing Scotland would certainly not be in their interests as Labour is likely to poll very badly in England and Wales outside the inner cities. Glasgow and the Central belt is one of the few areas in the UK Corbyn could produce any increase on the 2015 Labour vote

    More votes, pretty much no more seats, that is the problem Labour face in Scotland. Most of their former seats suffered 20% swings and are now safe SNP. A modest rise in their vote would achieve almost nothing.
    East Renfrewshire and Paisley South are in the top 100 Labour targets and Central belt seats like Paisley north and Kirckaldy and Glasgow Central in the top 120
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 12,950
    edited September 2015
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Clearly with a turnout of 15% , the outcome is not valid. I heard somewhere you need at least 50% now.

    There's a difference because every adult is eligible to vote in an election. Only employees are eligible to vote in a strike ballot (not customers or employers who are both affected).

    That's a good candidate for the weakest argument ever mounted on pb.com.

    It curious that the Tories demand a lower turnout threshold for the election of the Prime Minister than union ballots.
    No they don't, under the election of Prime Minister (actually Parliament) there is a turnout option from every adult in the United Kingdom being eligible to vote.

    Under a union ballot turnout is automatically restricted to a small subset of those affected. The Tube for example is a public service but it can be shut down based on turnout of just a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction of those affected by it.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:

    I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.

    'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news

    'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day

    'Did his lips nmove during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days

    Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate reporting is to visit the dark net

    It's frankly pathetic



    Its what made Britain great Roger, Attention to detail. Corbyn's disrespect and lack of dress sense needs noting. He would be a laughing stock on the foreign stage(not that he isn't already)

    But being a luvvie , one cannot expect you to understand.
    Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.
    You are absolutely wrong. The general population want to dress casually, but if our politicians on official duty did so, you would be deafened by the chorus of disapproval from the gen public..(not just the media). as Corbyn found out.
    It was hardly deafening. It was few editors and political opponents on social media looking for a way to knock Corbyn. It was sad and anachronistic.

    I have heard down the canvassing grapevine that the national anthem issue has had what we call 'breakthrough resonance'. Lots of people apparently bringing it up unprompted, including lifelong Labour voters. I'll be interested in seeing the first poll.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,604
    felix said:
    There is a fascinating line in that article, which completely cuts across the view of OGH that in General Elections we vote for our representative in 650 constituencies, and not for a central leader:

    "But their analysis is likely to conclude that the "incumbency factor" was blown away in a close election because many people voted for David Cameron to be Prime Minister and were not thinking about their constituency."

    We did try to tell you...
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,335



    No NO NO myboy, you are not reading the script... NPEXMP was posting last night about Green votes going to Labour in Haringey, though it won't win Labour an election, most likely pile up more votes in Labour seats.

    It would be interesting to see an analysis of what happens if say half the Green votes switch to Labour. It would be very important, though not always decisive, is some marginal - I lost my seat in 2010 by less than the Green vote, and Brighton Kemptown would go. Not sure how many others.

    Meanwhile, important polling straw in the wind in the US - Carson overtaken Trump in Michigan:
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

    I find it hard to take Carson seriously based on the first debate (missed the second one), where he seemed completely at sea, but I'm not remotely a GOP voter. Opinions from TimT and TimB and others who know the scene would be interesting.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 21,869
    "White girls have been made more vulnerable to sexual abuse by a legal ruling that paedophiles who target Asian girls should get tougher sentences, campaigners said last night.

    Children’s charities and MPs rounded on judges at the Court of Appeal after they said that it was right to take into account the extra shame Asian victims would feel and the damage to their prospects of an arranged marriage."


    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/crime/article4560315.ece
  • I fully support the UKIP suggestion that 18th September be celebrated as Union Day.

    Furthermore, this should be a bank holiday, celebrated always on the 18th (unless that be a Saturday or Sunday), not just moved to the nearest Monday.




    ThreeQuidder is 36 today.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Clearly with a turnout of 15% , the outcome is not valid. I heard somewhere you need at least 50% now.

    There's a difference because every adult is eligible to vote in an election. Only employees are eligible to vote in a strike ballot (not customers or employers who are both affected).

    That's a good candidate for the weakest argument ever mounted on pb.com.

    It curious that the Tories demand a lower turnout threshold for the election of the Prime Minister than union ballots.
    As the Prime Minister is implicitly elected by parliament, he actually has a turnout threshold much higher than 40%.
  • I missed QT, is there anything left of Corbyn's New Old Labour radical agenda?

    Apparently he’s still pressing ahead with the compulsory introduction of dress down Friday.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Happy Birthday, Mr Quid :cookie:

    I fully support the UKIP suggestion that 18th September be celebrated as Union Day.

    Furthermore, this should be a bank holiday, celebrated always on the 18th (unless that be a Saturday or Sunday), not just moved to the nearest Monday.




    ThreeQuidder is 36 today.

  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Clearly with a turnout of 15% , the outcome is not valid. I heard somewhere you need at least 50% now.

    There's a difference because every adult is eligible to vote in an election. Only employees are eligible to vote in a strike ballot (not customers or employers who are both affected).

    That's a good candidate for the weakest argument ever mounted on pb.com.

    It curious that the Tories demand a lower turnout threshold for the election of the Prime Minister than union ballots.
    This old nonsense again?

    Here's the difference: the country does have to have a prime minister. No union has to go on strike.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 30,361
    I didn't think the campaign said a UK government featuring the SNP would be illegitimate,just that it would be a very bad idea, but perhaps I'm misremembering. I do remember people deliberately ignored the distinction between Scottish MPs ion government in general and those who came from a party advocating break up of the nation.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,335
    Roger said:

    I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.

    'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news

    'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day

    'Did his lips move during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days

    Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate news is to visit the dark net

    It's frankly pathetic



    I remember a Tory MP telling me that he thought history books would record the decline of British democracy as largely due to our having the most negative and cynical media in the western world, an he might be right. Voters are generally reasonable though IMO, and are not quite so easily swayed.


  • No NO NO myboy, you are not reading the script... NPEXMP was posting last night about Green votes going to Labour in Haringey, though it won't win Labour an election, most likely pile up more votes in Labour seats.

    It would be interesting to see an analysis of what happens if say half the Green votes switch to Labour. It would be very important, though not always decisive, is some marginal - I lost my seat in 2010 by less than the Green vote, and Brighton Kemptown would go. Not sure how many others.
    As if that would be the only change. That is as naive as Tory right wingers thinking a drive to the right would cause them to get UKIP plus the Tories vote combined.

    In your seat in 2010 three times as many voted UKIP as voted Green. If Labour took half the Green vote and Tories took half the UKIP vote (as Labour had gone further to the left) then you would have lost by a bigger margin.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 8,078
    JEO said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Clearly with a turnout of 15% , the outcome is not valid. I heard somewhere you need at least 50% now.

    There's a difference because every adult is eligible to vote in an election. Only employees are eligible to vote in a strike ballot (not customers or employers who are both affected).

    That's a good candidate for the weakest argument ever mounted on pb.com.

    It curious that the Tories demand a lower turnout threshold for the election of the Prime Minister than union ballots.
    As the Prime Minister is implicitly elected by parliament, he actually has a turnout threshold much higher than 40%.
    Alternatively the Tories were supported by around 18% of the UK population. And I have as much say on who gets to be PM as I do on whether Tube Drivers get to strike.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    I fully support the UKIP suggestion that 18th September be celebrated as Union Day.

    Furthermore, this should be a bank holiday, celebrated always on the 18th (unless that be a Saturday or Sunday), not just moved to the nearest Monday.




    ThreeQuidder is 36 today.

    Happy Birthday!
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited September 2015
    JEO said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:

    I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.

    'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news

    'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day

    'Did his lips nmove during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days

    Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate reporting is to visit the dark net

    It's frankly pathetic



    Its what made Britain great Roger, Attention to detail. Corbyn's disrespect and lack of dress sense needs noting. He would be a laughing stock on the foreign stage(not that he isn't already)

    But being a luvvie , one cannot expect you to understand.
    Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.
    You are absolutely wrong. The general population want to dress casually, but if our politicians on official duty did so, you would be deafened by the chorus of disapproval from the gen public..(not just the media). as Corbyn found out.
    It was hardly deafening. It was few editors and political opponents on social media looking for a way to knock Corbyn. It was sad and anachronistic.

    I have heard down the canvassing grapevine that the national anthem issue has had what we call 'breakthrough resonance'. Lots of people apparently bringing it up unprompted, including lifelong Labour voters. I'll be interested in seeing the first poll.
    People can't really be that stupid, can they?

    How low do you think the lab % will go?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 30,361
    On unions, (other than The Unio, Which is dying on its knees), I can find no fault with the opt in funding proposals for all I'm sure it's maliciously motivated (that fewer people will opt in does not make it fair, it just means people will learn what happens if unions suffer lack of funds in that specific area- if it is very bad, they will have to learn to start paying, and this time it won't be an automatic thing but a positive choice) but the threshold levels, while not intrinsically wrong, I do find weak - I find the comparison with MP elections hard to ignore.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    I see Brazil has just banned corporate donations to elections. Its a sad situation when developing countries are ahead of us on the curve.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    edited September 2015
    Pong said:

    JEO said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:

    I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.

    'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news

    'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day

    'Did his lips nmove during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days

    Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate reporting is to visit the dark net

    It's frankly pathetic



    Its what made Britain great Roger, Attention to detail. Corbyn's disrespect and lack of dress sense needs noting. He would be a laughing stock on the foreign stage(not that he isn't already)

    But being a luvvie , one cannot expect you to understand.
    Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.
    You are absolutely wrong. The general population want to dress casually, but if our politicians on official duty did so, you would be deafened by the chorus of disapproval from the gen public..(not just the media). as Corbyn found out.
    It was hardly deafening. It was few editors and political opponents on social media looking for a way to knock Corbyn. It was sad and anachronistic.

    I have heard down the canvassing grapevine that the national anthem issue has had what we call 'breakthrough resonance'. Lots of people apparently bringing it up unprompted, including lifelong Labour voters. I'll be interested in seeing the first poll.
    People can't really be that stupid, can they?
    Turns out people like our politicians to be patriotic and to dress respectfully for formal events honouring the war dead. "He'll never be my Prime Minister" was often the sentiment, I'm told.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    JEO said:

    Pong said:

    JEO said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:

    I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.

    'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news

    'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day

    'Did his lips nmove during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days

    Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate reporting is to visit the dark net

    It's frankly pathetic



    Its what made Britain great Roger, Attention to detail. Corbyn's disrespect and lack of dress sense needs noting. He would be a laughing stock on the foreign stage(not that he isn't already)

    But being a luvvie , one cannot expect you to understand.
    Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.
    You are absolutely wrong. The general population want to dress casually, but if our politicians on official duty did so, you would be deafened by the chorus of disapproval from the gen public..(not just the media). as Corbyn found out.
    It was hardly deafening. It was few editors and political opponents on social media looking for a way to knock Corbyn. It was sad and anachronistic.

    I have heard down the canvassing grapevine that the national anthem issue has had what we call 'breakthrough resonance'. Lots of people apparently bringing it up unprompted, including lifelong Labour voters. I'll be interested in seeing the first poll.
    People can't really be that stupid, can they?
    Turns out people like our politicians to be patriotic and to dress respectfully for formal events honouring the war dead.
    How dire do you think it will be for Labour in the next yougov?

    Under 20%?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :lol:

    I missed QT, is there anything left of Corbyn's New Old Labour radical agenda?

    Apparently he’s still pressing ahead with the compulsory introduction of dress down Friday.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 30,361

    I fully support the UKIP suggestion that 18th September be celebrated as Union Day.

    Furthermore, this should be a bank holiday, celebrated always on the 18th (unless that be a Saturday or Sunday), not just moved to the nearest

    When did they make that suggestion? I recall I, and no doubt many others,msuggesting itbwith varying levels of seriousness a year ago. It was funnier when I allowed my surprise at a No win to consider if the issue might be settled for a little while at least. Really it's something we should have had a long time ago, but it's probably way too late now.
  • I missed QT, is there anything left of Corbyn's New Old Labour radical agenda?

    Apparently he’s still pressing ahead with the compulsory introduction of dress down Friday.
    During the show I posted a harmless joke on twitter about the fact that at least McDonnell had dressed for the occasion and immediately got a reply from some loon going on about my extreme Maoism and why all neo-liberals are s***bags. Strange combination.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 9,065
    RADIO 5. Urgent....Urgent....Urgent......Urgent

    Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)



  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,335
    Interesting piece by Marr from an essentially Blairite perspective, but fair enough in its own terms:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2015/09/between-revolution-and-reform-challenge-facing-jeremy-corbyn
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Pong said:

    JEO said:

    Pong said:

    JEO said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:

    I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.

    'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news

    'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day

    'Did his lips nmove during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days

    Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate reporting is to visit the dark net

    It's frankly pathetic



    Its what made Britain great Roger, Attention to detail. Corbyn's disrespect and lack of dress sense needs noting. He would be a laughing stock on the foreign stage(not that he isn't already)

    But being a luvvie , one cannot expect you to understand.
    Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.
    You are absolutely wrong. The general population want to dress casually, but if our politicians on official duty did so, you would be deafened by the chorus of disapproval from the gen public..(not just the media). as Corbyn found out.
    It was hardly deafening. It was few editors and political opponents on social media looking for a way to knock Corbyn. It was sad and anachronistic.

    I have heard down the canvassing grapevine that the national anthem issue has had what we call 'breakthrough resonance'. Lots of people apparently bringing it up unprompted, including lifelong Labour voters. I'll be interested in seeing the first poll.
    People can't really be that stupid, can they?
    Turns out people like our politicians to be patriotic and to dress respectfully for formal events honouring the war dead.
    How dire do you think it will be for Labour in the next yougov?

    Under 20%?
    I doubt it will be that bad - even toxic single events don't kill a third of your vote. But I now think they could go under 25% in the next couple of polls.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 30,361
    Roger said:

    RADIO 5. Urgent....Urgent....Urgent......Urgent

    Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)

    For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
  • isamisam Posts: 24,352
    edited September 2015
    One of the worst thread headers yet. I don't understand how someone can write like this.
  • Roger said:

    I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.

    'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news

    'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day

    'Did his lips move during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days

    Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate news is to visit the dark net

    It's frankly pathetic



    I remember a Tory MP telling me that he thought history books would record the decline of British democracy as largely due to our having the most negative and cynical media in the western world, an he might be right. Voters are generally reasonable though IMO, and are not quite so easily swayed.
    Yet when it was to your advantage, you did not hesitate to use that 'negative and cynical media' for your own purposes.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 30,361

    I missed QT, is there anything left of Corbyn's New Old Labour radical agenda?

    Apparently he’s still pressing ahead with the compulsory introduction of dress down Friday.
    During the show I posted a harmless joke on twitter about the fact that at least McDonnell had dressed for the occasion and immediately got a reply from some loon going on about my extreme Maoism and why all neo-liberals are s***bags. Strange combination.
    There are no harmless jokes made at the great leaders expense.
  • JEO said:

    I see Brazil has just banned corporate donations to elections. Its a sad situation when developing countries are ahead of us on the curve.

    That's not a positive development.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 5,492
    kle4 said:

    Roger said:

    RADIO 5. Urgent....Urgent....Urgent......Urgent

    Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)

    For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
    Slovenly is the word.
  • kle4 said:

    I missed QT, is there anything left of Corbyn's New Old Labour radical agenda?

    Apparently he’s still pressing ahead with the compulsory introduction of dress down Friday.
    During the show I posted a harmless joke on twitter about the fact that at least McDonnell had dressed for the occasion and immediately got a reply from some loon going on about my extreme Maoism and why all neo-liberals are s***bags. Strange combination.
    There are no harmless jokes made at the great leaders expense.
    Seems the case. I am considering forming a neo-liberal Maoist party though.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 8,078
    kle4 said:

    Roger said:

    RADIO 5. Urgent....Urgent....Urgent......Urgent

    Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)

    For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
    Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.

    In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.

  • Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Roger said:

    RADIO 5. Urgent....Urgent....Urgent......Urgent

    Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)

    For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
    Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.

    In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.

    Not wearing a tie is one thing, wearing a tie and not doing your top button is just stupid.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 40,467



    No NO NO myboy, you are not reading the script... NPEXMP was posting last night about Green votes going to Labour in Haringey, though it won't win Labour an election, most likely pile up more votes in Labour seats.

    It would be interesting to see an analysis of what happens if say half the Green votes switch to Labour. It would be very important, though not always decisive, is some marginal - I lost my seat in 2010 by less than the Green vote, and Brighton Kemptown would go. Not sure how many others.

    Meanwhile, important polling straw in the wind in the US - Carson overtaken Trump in Michigan:
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

    I find it hard to take Carson seriously based on the first debate (missed the second one), where he seemed completely at sea, but I'm not remotely a GOP voter. Opinions from TimT and TimB and others who know the scene would be interesting.
    Michigan is Carson's home state
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 40,467

    JEO said:

    I see Brazil has just banned corporate donations to elections. Its a sad situation when developing countries are ahead of us on the curve.

    That's not a positive development.
    Indeed and Rousseff's party faces corruption allegations and is union backed
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 40,467
    JEO said:

    Pong said:

    JEO said:

    Pong said:

    JEO said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:

    I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.

    'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news

    'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day

    'Did his lips nmove during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days

    Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate reporting is to visit the dark net

    It's frankly pathetic



    Its what made Britain great Roger, Attention to detail. Corbyn's disrespect and lack of dress sense needs noting. He would be a laughing stock on the foreign stage(not that he isn't already)

    But being a luvvie , one cannot expect you to understand.
    Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.
    You are absolutely wrong. The general population want to dress casually, but if our politicians on official duty did so, you would be deafened by the chorus of disapproval from the gen public..(not just the media). as Corbyn found out.
    It was hardly deafening. It was few editors and political opponents on social media looking for a way to knock Corbyn. It was sad and anachronistic.

    I have heard down the canvassing grapevine that the national anthem issue has had what we call 'breakthrough resonance'. Lots of people apparently bringing it up unprompted, including lifelong Labour voters. I'll be interested in seeing the first poll.
    People can't really be that stupid, can they?
    Turns out people like our politicians to be patriotic and to dress respectfully for formal events honouring the war dead.
    How dire do you think it will be for Labour in the next yougov?

    Under 20%?
    I doubt it will be that bad - even toxic single events don't kill a third of your vote. But I now think they could go under 25% in the next couple of polls.
    25 to 30 percent is likely
Sign In or Register to comment.