Clearly with a turnout of 15% , the outcome is not valid. I heard somewhere you need at least 50% now.
There's a difference because every adult is eligible to vote in an election. Only employees are eligible to vote in a strike ballot (not customers or employers who are both affected).
That's a good candidate for the weakest argument ever mounted on pb.com.
It curious that the Tories demand a lower turnout threshold for the election of the Prime Minister than union ballots.
As the Prime Minister is implicitly elected by parliament, he actually has a turnout threshold much higher than 40%.
Alternatively the Tories were supported by around 18% of the UK population. And I have as much say on who gets to be PM as I do on whether Tube Drivers get to strike.
I'm not quite clear what the number of one year olds has to to do with Election of our Government...
I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.
'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news
'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day
'Did his lips nmove during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days
Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate reporting is to visit the dark net
It's frankly pathetic
Its what made Britain great Roger, Attention to detail. Corbyn's disrespect and lack of dress sense needs noting. He would be a laughing stock on the foreign stage(not that he isn't already)
But being a luvvie , one cannot expect you to understand.
Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.
You are absolutely wrong. The general population want to dress casually, but if our politicians on official duty did so, you would be deafened by the chorus of disapproval from the gen public..(not just the media). as Corbyn found out.
It was hardly deafening. It was few editors and political opponents on social media looking for a way to knock Corbyn. It was sad and anachronistic.
I have heard down the canvassing grapevine that the national anthem issue has had what we call 'breakthrough resonance'. Lots of people apparently bringing it up unprompted, including lifelong Labour voters. I'll be interested in seeing the first poll.
People can't really be that stupid, can they?
Turns out people like our politicians to be patriotic and to dress respectfully for formal events honouring the war dead.
How dire do you think it will be for Labour in the next yougov?
Under 20%?
I doubt it will be that bad - even toxic single events don't kill a third of your vote. But I now think they could go under 25% in the next couple of polls.
25 to 30 percent is likely
When is next poll? Will we have polls in this weekend's Sundays?
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.
Not wearing a tie is one thing, wearing a tie and not doing your top button is just stupid.
Nah, it's daft to care about such things. I don't care what anyone does with their shirt button and what I do with my shirt buttons is my own business and no-one elses.
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.
I've recently started wearing hats. Trying to provide jobs for milliners, who've had some rough decades I'd expect.
Even so, if ties do disappear, fine, but if you wear one do your buttons up, please. Drives me crazy.
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.
Not wearing a tie is one thing, wearing a tie and not doing your top button is just stupid.
Nah, it's daft to care about such things. I don't care what anyone does with their shirt button and what I do with my shirt buttons is my own business and no-one elses.
I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.
'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news
'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day
'Did his lips nmove during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days
Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate reporting is to visit the dark net
It's frankly pathetic
Its what made Britain great Roger, Attention to detail. Corbyn's disrespect and lack of dress sense needs noting. He would be a laughing stock on the foreign stage(not that he isn't already)
But being a luvvie , one cannot expect you to understand.
Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.
You are absolutely wrong. The general population want to dress casually, but if our politicians on official duty did so, you would be deafened by the chorus of disapproval from the gen public..(not just the media). as Corbyn found out.
It was hardly deafening. It was few editors and political opponents on social media looking for a way to knock Corbyn. It was sad and anachronistic.
I have heard down the canvassing grapevine that the national anthem issue has had what we call 'breakthrough resonance'. Lots of people apparently bringing it up unprompted, including lifelong Labour voters. I'll be interested in seeing the first poll.
People can't really be that stupid, can they?
Turns out people like our politicians to be patriotic and to dress respectfully for formal events honouring the war dead.
How dire do you think it will be for Labour in the next yougov?
Under 20%?
I doubt it will be that bad - even toxic single events don't kill a third of your vote. But I now think they could go under 25% in the next couple of polls.
Depends on the weighting given to certainty to vote. I could well imagine a good number of former Labour voters are now far less certain about their support for the party. This could drag them down rather badly on certain methodologies.
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.
I've recently started wearing hats. Trying to provide jobs for milliners, who've had some rough decades I'd expect.
Even so, if ties do disappear, fine, but if you wear one do your buttons up, please. Drives me crazy.
When I retire I shall get rid of every single suit but one, and I shall keep two ties only: One for weddings, and one for funerals.
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.
Not wearing a tie is one thing, wearing a tie and not doing your top button is just stupid.
Nah, it's daft to care about such things. I don't care what anyone does with their shirt button and what I do with my shirt buttons is my own business and no-one elses.
Nobody gives a shit about what you do, but surprisingly, they tend to form a view about people aspiring to lead the country.
Only those as dumb as a sack of spanners could fail to understand that how someone in the public eye comports themselves conveys a message to observers. However, please do keep railing on about how stupid the electorate is.
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.
I've recently started wearing hats. Trying to provide jobs for milliners, who've had some rough decades I'd expect.
chuckle.
Anyway, I'm going to pull a Roger and quote an eavesdropped conversation from the pub last night. Three people in their mid-20s were discussing Corbyn, mostly. One seemed to assume the other 2 had voted Labour in the last election.
The reply: "well, there was all that fear mongering at the start but its not come true and we've done alright the last five years"
The Labour supporter's jaw might still be on the floor.
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.
Not wearing a tie is one thing, wearing a tie and not doing your top button is just stupid.
Nah, it's daft to care about such things. I don't care what anyone does with their shirt button and what I do with my shirt buttons is my own business and no-one elses.
Your view. But don't blame the electorate if they put more store by such visual cues about how somebody presents themselves. Would you go into a job interview with no tie? Or with tie but the top button undone?
There are many over 50s for whom this still counts. And they are the ones you want to appeal to - they vote. Willfully acknowledging that you might give a bad impression but you don't care about the opinions of those you are trying to win over is not the way to make electoral progress.
Nixon was said to have lost the 1960 Presidential election to JFK because he lost the debate - and he lost that debate because under the studio lighting, he looked like he hadn't shaved. These things matter.
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.
Not wearing a tie is one thing, wearing a tie and not doing your top button is just stupid.
Nah, it's daft to care about such things. I don't care what anyone does with their shirt button and what I do with my shirt buttons is my own business and no-one elses.
Barbarian.
If anything there can be a correlation between barbarianism and smartness. For example, Idi Amin was very smart and would have certainly passed the button test. You cannot judge people on buttons.
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.
I've recently started wearing hats. Trying to provide jobs for milliners, who've had some rough decades I'd expect.
chuckle.
Anyway, I'm going to pull a Roger and quote an eavesdropped conversation from the pub last night. Three people in their mid-20s were discussing Corbyn, mostly. One seemed to assume the other 2 had voted Labour in the last election.
The reply: "well, there was all that fear mongering at the start but its not come true and we've done alright the last five years"
The Labour supporter's jaw might still be on the floor.
ANECDOTE ALERT: My Mum is a Rhondda girl, all methodism and miners; Ed lost her to the Liberal Democrats (I'd previously believed that her not voting Labour would be one of the first omens of the impending apocalypse). She spontaneously raised Corbyn's national anthem failure during her last phone call - she was not impressed. Called him unpatriotic.
Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.
Thinking it is about dress code is where you are going wrong.
It's about respect.
I'd take my shoes off in a mosque or synagogue. Be polite and respectful to the Pope. Or wear a suit at a remebrance service.
Re: electoral thresholds you've got it the wrong way round. You elect a representative to use their judgement on your behalf. If you are fine with any outcome you don't have to vote. A vote on strike action is much closer to a referendum where you are seeking positive endorsement of a decision. That demands a threshold.
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.
Not wearing a tie is one thing, wearing a tie and not doing your top button is just stupid.
Nah, it's daft to care about such things. I don't care what anyone does with their shirt button and what I do with my shirt buttons is my own business and no-one elses.
Barbarian.
If anything there can be a correlation between barbarianism and smartness. For example, Idi Amin was very smart and would have certainly passed the button test. You cannot judge people on buttons.
I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.
'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news
'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day
'Did his lips nmove during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days
Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate reporting is to visit the dark net
It's frankly pathetic
Its what made Britain great Roger, Attention to detail. Corbyn's disrespect and lack of dress sense needs noting. He would be a laughing stock on the foreign stage(not that he isn't already)
But being a luvvie , one cannot expect you to understand.
Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.
You are absolutely wrong. The general population want to dress casually, but if our politicians on official duty did so, you would be deafened by the chorus of disapproval from the gen public..(not just the media). as Corbyn found out.
It was hardly deafening. It was few editors and political opponents on social media looking for a way to knock Corbyn. It was sad and anachronistic.
I have heard down the canvassing grapevine that the national anthem issue has had what we call 'breakthrough resonance'. Lots of people apparently bringing it up unprompted, including lifelong Labour voters. I'll be interested in seeing the first poll.
People can't really be that stupid, can they?
Turns out people like our politicians to be patriotic and to dress respectfully for formal events honouring the war dead.
How dire do you think it will be for Labour in the next yougov?
Under 20%?
I doubt it will be that bad - even toxic single events don't kill a third of your vote. But I now think they could go under 25% in the next couple of polls.
25 to 30 percent is likely
When is next poll? Will we have polls in this weekend's Sundays?
The Mail and Times and Observer could all have polls maybe more
Mainly because most people who aren't right wing extremist loons think democracy should be about one person, one vote, not one pound, one vote and so should you unless you are extremely rich.
TSE " the Tory campaign that sought to portray a government featuring the SNP as illegitimate was wrong"
Illegitimate? I do not think so. The message was that the SNP as an anti-british party would have a major influence over Labour in a coalition. Having gone through 5 years of a coalition "influenced" by the Lib Dems, the voters were asked if they wanted another coalition influenced by the SNP. Enough voters decided in England "no thanks".
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.
I've recently started wearing hats. Trying to provide jobs for milliners, who've had some rough decades I'd expect.
chuckle.
Anyway, I'm going to pull a Roger and quote an eavesdropped conversation from the pub last night. Three people in their mid-20s were discussing Corbyn, mostly. One seemed to assume the other 2 had voted Labour in the last election.
The reply: "well, there was all that fear mongering at the start but its not come true and we've done alright the last five years"
The Labour supporter's jaw might still be on the floor.
What is fascinating about that is the suggestion that Labour's greatest weapon - fear of what the Tories will do to you - is losing its potency. And with the great uncertainties around what a Corbyn Govt. would actually do, they are allowing that weapon to be pointed back at themselves.
Mainly because most people who aren't right wing extremist loons think democracy should be about one person, one vote, not one pound, one vote and so should you unless you are extremely rich.
The vote should be one person one vote but donations to help get your message across should be free to anyone to donate, whether it be by the public individuals, unions or corporations. With safeguards and transparency.
To try and keep your own source of funding while blocking that or your political opponents isn't positive.
I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.
'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news
'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day
'Did his lips move during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days
Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate news is to visit the dark net
It's frankly pathetic
I remember a Tory MP telling me that he thought history books would record the decline of British democracy as largely due to our having the most negative and cynical media in the western world, an he might be right. Voters are generally reasonable though IMO, and are not quite so easily swayed.
The greater threat to democracy is an inept Opposition and it's weathercock supporters, changing their views from one day to the next. But cling to your anecdote if it makes you feel better about things.
I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.
'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news
'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day
'Did his lips nmove during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days
Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate reporting is to visit the dark net
It's frankly pathetic
Its what made Britain great Roger, Attention to detail. Corbyn's disrespect and lack of dress sense needs noting. He would be a laughing stock on the foreign stage(not that he isn't already)
But being a luvvie , one cannot expect you to understand.
Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.
You are absolutely wrong. The general population want to dress casually, but if our politicians on official duty did so, you would be deafened by the chorus of disapproval from the gen public..(not just the media). as Corbyn found out.
It is normal for public-eye roles to have a smarter standard of dress than back-office roles. Mr Corbyn only needs to accept that his role has changed from back-office to (say) Reception and dress accordingly.
A pity he didn't realise this in time to start on the correct foot, but now, he only needs to be honest & acknowledge his mistake. It's been a very busy & pressured time for him - one can't think of everything.
Mainly because most people who aren't right wing extremist loons think democracy should be about one person, one vote, not one pound, one vote and so should you unless you are extremely rich.
The vote should be one person one vote but donations to help get your message across should be free to anyone to donate, whether it be by the public individuals, unions or corporations. With safeguards and transparency.
To try and keep your own source of funding while blocking that or your political opponents isn't positive.
No, because this means the rich can get their message across much better than anyone else. This is a recipe for self-reinforcing concentration of wealth and power which can only end up one way - oligarchal despotism.
"Speaking as a Unionist the Tory campaign that sought to portray a government featuring the SNP as illegitimate was wrong as the SNP have as much right to be a part of government as any other party, that’s democracy."
TSE, the Tory campaign didn't seek to change people's minds to take that view. The early canvassing showed that view was very prevalent even before the campaign literature was sent out. People raised it spontaneously with me, numerous times. In the later campaign, we focused on a concern that many people had already expressed.
That image of a little Ed peering out of Salmond's top pocket was the single most potent campaign poster since "Labour Isn't Working" of 1979. Whoever designed it should be up for an award.
From that independent article "Lib Dem officials admit the party’s private polling, which pointed to a hung parliament, and its on the ground intelligence, did not predict the advance in which the Conservatives gained 27 Lib Dem seats"
Frankly if your ground intelligence through canvassing does not predict you are going to lose incumbent seats then your ground game is in a terrible state. What would be intersting is if this is because of a dramatic decline in the volunteers on the ground in those incumbent seats. I suspect that the loss of councillors is a factor. Something they knew but chose to overlook. There is also the tendency amongst their MPs for them to regard their vote as entirely personal and one which comes from their unique brilliance and wonderfulness. Loss of the protest vote probably amounted to a 1/3 of the decline in % terms.
Mainly because most people who aren't right wing extremist loons think democracy should be about one person, one vote, not one pound, one vote and so should you unless you are extremely rich.
The vote should be one person one vote but donations to help get your message across should be free to anyone to donate, whether it be by the public individuals, unions or corporations. With safeguards and transparency.
To try and keep your own source of funding while blocking that or your political opponents isn't positive.
No, because this means the rich can get their message across much better than anyone else. This is a recipe for self-reinforcing concentration of wealth and power which can only end up one way - oligarchal despotism.
Not true. The Labour Party was better funded than the Conservatives for much of the time they were on power. The most funds ever raised by a Presidential nominee was for a Democrat not a Republican.
TSE " the Tory campaign that sought to portray a government featuring the SNP as illegitimate was wrong"
Illegitimate? I do not think so. The message was that the SNP as an anti-british party would have a major influence over Labour in a coalition. Having gone through 5 years of a coalition "influenced" by the Lib Dems, the voters were asked if they wanted another coalition influenced by the SNP. Enough voters decided in England "no thanks".
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.
Not wearing a tie is one thing, wearing a tie and not doing your top button is just stupid.
Nah, it's daft to care about such things. I don't care what anyone does with their shirt button and what I do with my shirt buttons is my own business and no-one elses.
Barbarian.
If anything there can be a correlation between barbarianism and smartness. For example, Idi Amin was very smart and would have certainly passed the button test. You cannot judge people on buttons.
What you think doesn't matter. You have one vote. The fact is Corbyn's job is to appeal to as many voters as possible to improve the prospects of his party. People over 50 vote, people over 50, don't like their potential PM, to turn up at nationally important event looking like a sack of shit loosely tied up in the middle with string. In short scruffy men doing an impression of Harry Enfield's, Kevin the teenager don't impress them.
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.
Not wearing a tie is one thing, wearing a tie and not doing your top button is just stupid.
Nah, it's daft to care about such things. I don't care what anyone does with their shirt button and what I do with my shirt buttons is my own business and no-one elses.
Barbarian.
If anything there can be a correlation between barbarianism and smartness. For example, Idi Amin was very smart and would have certainly passed the button test. You cannot judge people on buttons.
What you think doesn't matter. You have one vote. The fact is Corbyn's job is to appeal to as many voters as possible to improve the prospects of his party. People over 50 vote, people over 50, don't like their potential PM, to turn up at nationally important event looking like a sack of shit loosely tied up in the middle with string. In short scruffy men doing an impression of Harry Enfield's, Kevin the teenager don't impress them.
Not just people over 50. I'm sure a number under that would think they have to dress respectfully on occasions and if going to an interview etc - those that don't care about that probably are less likely to vote too. People of all ages care about appearances it's just that trends and concerns change but few appreciate someone looking like they just don't care.
Mainly because most people who aren't right wing extremist loons think democracy should be about one person, one vote, not one pound, one vote and so should you unless you are extremely rich.
The vote should be one person one vote but donations to help get your message across should be free to anyone to donate, whether it be by the public individuals, unions or corporations. With safeguards and transparency.
To try and keep your own source of funding while blocking that or your political opponents isn't positive.
No, because this means the rich can get their message across much better than anyone else. This is a recipe for self-reinforcing concentration of wealth and power which can only end up one way - oligarchal despotism.
Not true. The Labour Party was better funded than the Conservatives for much of the time they were on power. The most funds ever raised by a Presidential nominee was for a Democrat not a Republican.
So let's deal with facts.
The US has maximum restrictions though, no? And whose to say most big business wasn't happy with the idea of Obama anyway. Certainly I haven't seen a reduction in concentration of power and wealth over there in my lifetime.
And with regards Labour's last time in office, big business were also more than happy with Blair, who presided over another increase in concentration of power and wealth whilst also neutering the entire left wing of mainstream politics. A win win for anyone whose game plan is a march to oligarchal despotism.
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.
Someone posted yesterday that the refugees at the Hungarian border had started rioting after only 36 hours. According to this poster their anger after only 36 hours showed what a lucky escape the Hungarians had in keeping these uncivilized barbarians out.
Has anyone ever been at an airport where there are delays of 10 hours let alone 36? Where there are screaming children and no faciities and no one giving out information? Would anyone find this bearable if it was happening to them or their families?
I found the post shocking and was surprised it not only went unchallenged but received some approval. This as the most insidious sort of racism. The belief in an underclass less human than ourselves
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.
Not wearing a tie is one thing, wearing a tie and not doing your top button is just stupid.
Nah, it's daft to care about such things. I don't care what anyone does with their shirt button and what I do with my shirt buttons is my own business and no-one elses.
Barbarian.
If anything there can be a correlation between barbarianism and smartness. For example, Idi Amin was very smart and would have certainly passed the button test. You cannot judge people on buttons.
I disagree. For example if you're walking around an area where most people are smartly dressed you're probably in a safer and more civilised district than one where people deliberately dress shabbily.
Mainly because most people who aren't right wing extremist loons think democracy should be about one person, one vote, not one pound, one vote and so should you unless you are extremely rich.
The vote should be one person one vote but donations to help get your message across should be free to anyone to donate, whether it be by the public individuals, unions or corporations. With safeguards and transparency.
To try and keep your own source of funding while blocking that or your political opponents isn't positive.
But obviously spending money works in changing votes so any system with unlimited political spending means the system is biased towards those with money.
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.
I've recently started wearing hats. Trying to provide jobs for milliners, who've had some rough decades I'd expect.
chuckle.
Anyway, I'm going to pull a Roger and quote an eavesdropped conversation from the pub last night. Three people in their mid-20s were discussing Corbyn, mostly. One seemed to assume the other 2 had voted Labour in the last election.
The reply: "well, there was all that fear mongering at the start but its not come true and we've done alright the last five years"
The Labour supporter's jaw might still be on the floor.
What is fascinating about that is the suggestion that Labour's greatest weapon - fear of what the Tories will do to you - is losing its potency. And with the great uncertainties around what a Corbyn Govt. would actually do, they are allowing that weapon to be pointed back at themselves.
BANG.
Depends on what your lot do now, of course. Regaining that fear by trying too much would be a mistake I think.
DailySunday Politics @daily_politics Sep 16 Some time changes affecting #bbcsp this weekend, plus two extended #bbcdp editions next week with @afneil@Jo_Coburn
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.
Not wearing a tie is one thing, wearing a tie and not doing your top button is just stupid.
Nah, it's daft to care about such things. I don't care what anyone does with their shirt button and what I do with my shirt buttons is my own business and no-one elses.
Barbarian.
If anything there can be a correlation between barbarianism and smartness. For example, Idi Amin was very smart and would have certainly passed the button test. You cannot judge people on buttons.
I disagree. For example if you're walking around an area where most people are smartly dressed you're probably in a safer and more civilised district than one where people deliberately dress shabbily.
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
The top button is not the issue. The issue is that he lacked the brains to spot it was going to be an issue. For a national event people expect those attending to look smart and presentable. It is simple common sense.
His behaviour to date indicates to me that he has little understanding of people and quite possibly little empathy as well. I do not want someone like that with their hands on the levers of power.
Under Corbyn losing Scotland would certainly not be in their interests as Labour is likely to poll very badly in England and Wales outside the inner cities. Glasgow and the Central belt is one of the few areas in the UK Corbyn could produce any increase on the 2015 Labour vote
Scotland is already lost , the witterings of the frothers on here will not change that. Tory surge will be coming up next.
David Vance @DVATW 3h3 hours ago 11000 invading Muslim immigrants surge across Croatia. UK media covers this by showing pics of upset immigrant babies. We are being played.
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.
Not wearing a tie is one thing, wearing a tie and not doing your top button is just stupid.
Nah, it's daft to care about such things. I don't care what anyone does with their shirt button and what I do with my shirt buttons is my own business and no-one elses.
Barbarian.
If anything there can be a correlation between barbarianism and smartness. For example, Idi Amin was very smart and would have certainly passed the button test. You cannot judge people on buttons.
I disagree. For example if you're walking around an area where most people are smartly dressed you're probably in a safer and more civilised district than one where people deliberately dress shabbily.
No, that's just prejudice.
You really believe places where most people are mostly wearing suits, like Canary Wharf, are equally safe as places where most people dress more informally, like Wembley?
Someone posted yesterday that the refugees at the Hungarian border had started rioting after only 36 hours. According to this poster their anger after only 36 hours showed what a lucky escape the Hungarians had in keeping these uncivilized barbarians out.
Has anyone ever been at an airport where there are delays of 10 hours let alone 36? Where there are screaming children and no faciities and no one giving out information? Would anyone find this bearable if it was happening to them or their families?
I found the post shocking and was surprised it not only went unchallenged but received some approval. This as the most insidious sort of racism. The belief in an underclass less human than ourselves
I'm sure there have been pretty serious air travel delays in the past for example when the Icelandic ash cloud happened but I have yet to hear of everyone throwing stones as a result.
Are you saying throwing rocks at police is acceptable behaviour? Are you saying the scenes in Croatia yesterday where young men stampeded through with no regard to the women or children were acceptable?
If your flight is seriously delayed you have the right to claim compensation and be put up in a hotel. The migrants had no legal right to be allowed into Hungary having passed through a large number of safe countries where they should have claimed asylum.
I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.
'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news
'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day
'Did his lips move during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days
Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate news is to visit the dark net
It's frankly pathetic
That's quite funny, bearing in mind:
Bullingdon Bullingdon BULLINGDON ... 30 years ago
He was there when on Black Friday ... 25 years ago
Watermelon Eyes ... Boris the Racist ... Simple misrepresentation
It might have a little more to do with Corbyn running away from interviews.
On McDonnell, I expect there is far more to come out, and that this was a political apology. I'd say he has more of a back story than Corbyn for supporting dodgy causes. Anyone studied the Troops Out people in the 1980s for example?
The guy was sacked by Ken Livingstone for being too extreme, ffs.
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.
I've recently started wearing hats. Trying to provide jobs for milliners, who've had some rough decades I'd expect.
chuckle.
Anyway, I'm going to pull a Roger and quote an eavesdropped conversation from the pub last night. Three people in their mid-20s were discussing Corbyn, mostly. One seemed to assume the other 2 had voted Labour in the last election.
The reply: "well, there was all that fear mongering at the start but its not come true and we've done alright the last five years"
The Labour supporter's jaw might still be on the floor.
What is fascinating about that is the suggestion that Labour's greatest weapon - fear of what the Tories will do to you - is losing its potency. And with the great uncertainties around what a Corbyn Govt. would actually do, they are allowing that weapon to be pointed back at themselves.
BANG.
I think we saw that in the desperation to make so much of the supposedly evil bedroom tax. If that is the worst example they can come up with of Tory monstrosity they are struggling. By the next election it will not be an issue at all and even at this one it clearly chimed with far, far fewer people than Labour hoped.
The Independent reports "but it is expected not to direct blame at Mr Clegg or Paddy Ashdown, who ran the election campaign,"
Really? You have a Leader with ratings in the gutter and a campagn that loses 80%+ of the seats that you are defending and yet the head of the campaign, Ashdown, has no blame? Amazing at how tolerant of failure Lib dems are. We can still see Ashdown swanning around in the media as an expert of everything and nothing... yet he presided over the biggest election failure of the Lib Dems and probably the biggest of the old Liberal party.
I knew Obama was a Muslim and not really an American, but I had not known about the training camps where people were learning to kill us. Could one of our stateside members fill me in?
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.
I've recently started wearing hats. Trying to provide jobs for milliners, who've had some rough decades I'd expect.
chuckle.
Anyway, I'm going to pull a Roger and quote an eavesdropped conversation from the pub last night. Three people in their mid-20s were discussing Corbyn, mostly. One seemed to assume the other 2 had voted Labour in the last election.
The reply: "well, there was all that fear mongering at the start but its not come true and we've done alright the last five years"
The Labour supporter's jaw might still be on the floor.
What is fascinating about that is the suggestion that Labour's greatest weapon - fear of what the Tories will do to you - is losing its potency. And with the great uncertainties around what a Corbyn Govt. would actually do, they are allowing that weapon to be pointed back at themselves.
BANG.
Depends on what your lot do now, of course. Regaining that fear by trying too much would be a mistake I think.
Yeah.
And the counter is also true - fear-mongering with no punchline damages you more.
I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.
'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news
'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day
'Did his lips move during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days
Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate news is to visit the dark net
It's frankly pathetic
That's quite funny, bearing in mind:
Bullingdon Bullingdon BULLINGDON ... 30 years ago
He was there when on Black Friday ... 25 years ago
Watermelon Eyes ... Boris the Racist ... Simple misrepresentation
It might have a little more to do with Corbyn running away from interviews.
On Johnson, I expect there is far more to come out, and that this was a political apology.
The guy was sacked by Ken Livingstone for being too extreme, ffs.
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
The top button is not the issue. The issue is that he lacked the brains to spot it was going to be an issue. For a national event people expect those attending to look smart and presentable. It is simple common sense.
His behaviour to date indicates to me that he has little understanding of people and quite possibly little empathy as well. I do not want someone like that with their hands on the levers of power.
And why did he not prioritise the march past of those that had served with such distinction in Sierra Leone after PMQs? Is there nothing that our armed forces can do that he wants to celebrate, not even helping the sick?
David Vance @DVATW 3h3 hours ago 11000 invading Muslim immigrants surge across Croatia. UK media covers this by showing pics of upset immigrant babies. We are being played.
Of course we are being played but I think it has more to do with journalism than politics. Deep in the folk memory of broadcast journalism is the image of (the utterly talentless) Michael Buerke building his career on being filmed with starving kids in the 80s. They all want a piece of that.
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.
Not wearing a tie is one thing, wearing a tie and not doing your top button is just stupid.
Nah, it's daft to care about such things. I don't care what anyone does with their shirt button and what I do with my shirt buttons is my own business and no-one elses.
Barbarian.
If anything there can be a correlation between barbarianism and smartness. For example, Idi Amin was very smart and would have certainly passed the button test. You cannot judge people on buttons.
I disagree. For example if you're walking around an area where most people are smartly dressed you're probably in a safer and more civilised district than one where people deliberately dress shabbily.
No, that's just prejudice.
You really believe places where most people are mostly wearing suits, like Canary Wharf, are equally safe as places where most people dress more informally, like Wembley?
Have some experience. My father was punched in the face in the City by a stranger in a suit simply passing the other way. It was a completely unprovoked attack. Smashed my father's glasses and the blood was impressive. Shocking. I imagine the guy had a bad day or was high.
So to answer your question. No, I don't particularly trust suits or well to do areas.
Someone posted yesterday that the refugees at the Hungarian border had started rioting after only 36 hours. According to this poster their anger after only 36 hours showed what a lucky escape the Hungarians had in keeping these uncivilized barbarians out.
So any society should accede to the demands of violent outsiders who break the law when thwarted?
Interesting to note who the whines about the blairite, BBC, are coming from. Strange it was invisible to them prior to them turning on the anti Blairite, Corbyn. Weird.
Have some experience. My father was punched in the face in the City by a stranger in a suit simply passing the other way. It was a completely unprovoked attack. Smashed my father's glasses and the blood was impressive. Shocking. I imagine the guy had a bad day or was high.
So to answer your question. No, I don't particularly trust suits or well to do areas.
While that is obviously an awful thing to have happened to your father, I don't believe in extrapolating things from single datapoints.
Mr. Rex, quite, but the lack of objectivity is staggering.
It also does a disservice to genuine refugees. Many people will assume they're all bad and distrust the media, portraying the migrants unconvincingly as angels. Many are genuine refugees, many are not. Claiming they're all refugees is palpable nonsense, and damages the credibility of the media who claim it.
It's all very Damien Day from Drop The Dead Donkey.
Yesterday on Sky, the camera crew on the only bit of the Croation border not bristling with guards, saw a family with a kid in a wheelchair trundling by, and jumped towards them "Oh LOOK!!! A child in a wheelchair!!"
David Vance @DVATW 3h3 hours ago 11000 invading Muslim immigrants surge across Croatia. UK media covers this by showing pics of upset immigrant babies. We are being played.
Of course we are being played but I think it has more to do with journalism than politics. Deep in the folk memory of broadcast journalism is the image of (the utterly talentless) Michael Buerke building his career on being filmed with starving kids in the 80s. They all want a piece of that.
It is normal for public-eye roles to have a smarter standard of dress than back-office roles. Mr Corbyn only needs to accept that his role has changed from back-office to (say) Reception and dress accordingly.
A pity he didn't realise this in time to start on the correct foot, but now, he only needs to be honest & acknowledge his mistake. It's been a very busy & pressured time for him - one can't think of everything.
I think most people would think that gets it right. It's a reasonable point to make, but the Sun et al risk devaluing their policy attacks by going overboard on this. If you shout hysterically about everything, there's a cry wolf effect.
Have some experience. My father was punched in the face in the City by a stranger in a suit simply passing the other way. It was a completely unprovoked attack. Smashed my father's glasses and the blood was impressive. Shocking. I imagine the guy had a bad day or was high.
So to answer your question. No, I don't particularly trust suits or well to do areas.
While that is obviously an awful thing to have happened to your father, I don't believe in extrapolating things from single datapoints.
Well IMO it is foolish to judge a man by how he looks. Go watch the Kray movie if you need another data point.
WRT Corbyn, there are plenty of reasons to challenge him. The relative position of a button to a piece of cotton is simply not one of them.
I'm sure there have been pretty serious air travel delays in the past for example when the Icelandic ash cloud happened but I have yet to hear of everyone throwing stones as a result.
No.
But I did have to get a taxi from Stockholm to Brussels
Under Corbyn losing Scotland would certainly not be in their interests as Labour is likely to poll very badly in England and Wales outside the inner cities. Glasgow and the Central belt is one of the few areas in the UK Corbyn could produce any increase on the 2015 Labour vote
Scotland is already lost , the witterings of the frothers on here will not change that. Tory surge will be coming up next.
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.
Maybe wearing hats will come back into fashion.
If you want to catch a woman's eye, then a great coat and a Borsalino fedora still works better than most anything.
Things have come to a pretty pass when even sensible Labour supporters such as Jonathan are reduced to trying to convince themselves that Corbyn looking shifty and scruffy at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain doesn't matter politically. (And that's without even mentioning the national anthem stuff).
Full-scale denial over took Nick Palmer a while back - all the more surprising as an experienced ex-MP and campaigner who was a colleague of Jeremy Corbyn for 13 years. It's surprising that the denial seems to be spreading; Labour is a long way off recovery if they are still in Panglossian mode.
It is normal for public-eye roles to have a smarter standard of dress than back-office roles. Mr Corbyn only needs to accept that his role has changed from back-office to (say) Reception and dress accordingly.
A pity he didn't realise this in time to start on the correct foot, but now, he only needs to be honest & acknowledge his mistake. It's been a very busy & pressured time for him - one can't think of everything.
I think most people would think that gets it right. It's a reasonable point to make, but the Sun et al risk devaluing their policy attacks by going overboard on this. If you shout hysterically about everything, there's a cry wolf effect.
I think this may be the first time I've praised Peter Bone
Peter Bone, Tory MP for Wellingborough, last night said: ‘To suggest we should mollycoddle these people who have no right to be here, or have been in prison, is ludicrous.
‘We shouldn’t worry about the food as long as it is healthy and nutritional.’ The report also criticised the former prison for not having a ‘cultural kitchen’ for inmates to cook their own food.
Mr. Jonathan, foolish perhaps, but it happens constantly (in the same way, people really do judge books by the cover).
Mr. Palmer, crying wolf suggests those things didn't happen.
A man aspiring to lead this country couldn't bring himself to sing the national anthem at a service to remember the war dead. That's not going to impress the average chap on the street.
Edited extra bit: Miss Plato, my thoughts exactly. If they dislike the food, they'll be happy to enjoy their own preferences when they're out of the country.
It is normal for public-eye roles to have a smarter standard of dress than back-office roles. Mr Corbyn only needs to accept that his role has changed from back-office to (say) Reception and dress accordingly.
A pity he didn't realise this in time to start on the correct foot, but now, he only needs to be honest & acknowledge his mistake. It's been a very busy & pressured time for him - one can't think of everything.
I think most people would think that gets it right. It's a reasonable point to make, but the Sun et al risk devaluing their policy attacks by going overboard on this. If you shout hysterically about everything, there's a cry wolf effect.
Under Corbyn losing Scotland would certainly not be in their interests as Labour is likely to poll very badly in England and Wales outside the inner cities. Glasgow and the Central belt is one of the few areas in the UK Corbyn could produce any increase on the 2015 Labour vote
Scotland is already lost , the witterings of the frothers on here will not change that. Tory surge will be coming up next.
I think this may be the first time I've praised Peter Bone
Peter Bone, Tory MP for Wellingborough, last night said: ‘To suggest we should mollycoddle these people who have no right to be here, or have been in prison, is ludicrous.
‘We shouldn’t worry about the food as long as it is healthy and nutritional.’ The report also criticised the former prison for not having a ‘cultural kitchen’ for inmates to cook their own food.
It is normal for public-eye roles to have a smarter standard of dress than back-office roles. Mr Corbyn only needs to accept that his role has changed from back-office to (say) Reception and dress accordingly.
A pity he didn't realise this in time to start on the correct foot, but now, he only needs to be honest & acknowledge his mistake. It's been a very busy & pressured time for him - one can't think of everything.
I think most people would think that gets it right. It's a reasonable point to make, but the Sun et al risk devaluing their policy attacks by going overboard on this. If you shout hysterically about everything, there's a cry wolf effect.
Seriously?
Your only concern is newspapers will undermine their future attacks on Jeremy’s policies?
Things have come to a pretty pass when even sensible Labour supporters such as Jonathan are reduced to trying to convince themselves that Corbyn looking shifty and scruffy at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain doesn't matter politically. (And that's without even mentioning the national anthem stuff).
FWIW I haven't said it doesn't matter politically. Sadly it does. Nevertheless, I do think it's daft and over-egged by Tories who are having jolly good fun and enjoying some faux outrage. I would expect 'sensible' Tories like you to call that out for the fluff it is.
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
There's nothing democratic about regionally based SNP MPs propping up Labour when their MPs can vote on English matters but not on the same matters which affect their constituencies. The Tory poster was correct and the reaction of English voters inevitable. lf anything breaks up the Union it will be Labours botched devolution - and Labour's wipeout in Scotland was entirely the result of their own botched occupation of the place for over a generation.
Things have come to a pretty pass when even sensible Labour supporters such as Jonathan are reduced to trying to convince themselves that Corbyn looking shifty and scruffy at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain doesn't matter politically. (And that's without even mentioning the national anthem stuff).
FWIW I haven't said it doesn't matter politically. Sadly it does. Nevertheless, I do think it's daft and over-egged by Tories who are having jolly good fun and enjoying some faux outrage. I would expect 'sensible' Tories like you to call that out for the fluff it is.
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
Things have come to a pretty pass when even sensible Labour supporters such as Jonathan are reduced to trying to convince themselves that Corbyn looking shifty and scruffy at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain doesn't matter politically. (And that's without even mentioning the national anthem stuff).
FWIW I haven't said it doesn't matter politically. Sadly it does. Nevertheless, I do think it's daft and over-egged by Tories who are having jolly good fun and enjoying some faux outrage. I would expect 'sensible' Tories like you to call that out for the fluff it is.
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
Things have come to a pretty pass when even sensible Labour supporters such as Jonathan are reduced to trying to convince themselves that Corbyn looking shifty and scruffy at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain doesn't matter politically. (And that's without even mentioning the national anthem stuff).
FWIW I haven't said it doesn't matter politically. Sadly it does. Nevertheless, I do think it's daft and over-egged by Tories who are having jolly good fun and enjoying some faux outrage. I would expect 'sensible' Tories like you to call that out for the fluff it is.
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
You're right that the policies are what should be important. The problem is that all this stuff is putting Lab on the back foot. They need to stop giving the media ammunition so they can get onto the front foot and attack the government.
I think this may be the first time I've praised Peter Bone
Peter Bone, Tory MP for Wellingborough, last night said: ‘To suggest we should mollycoddle these people who have no right to be here, or have been in prison, is ludicrous.
‘We shouldn’t worry about the food as long as it is healthy and nutritional.’ The report also criticised the former prison for not having a ‘cultural kitchen’ for inmates to cook their own food.
It's good news. They've already adopted the 'Me, me, me' entitlement views held by many Brits, so are clearly integrating.
Yeah, right - a cultural kitchen - full of cultural knives - is just what is needed...
If they like, we could always adopt some other cultural customs such as beheadings, hand removals and throwing people off high rise buildings to remind them what we're generously helping them avoid.
Comments
Even so, if ties do disappear, fine, but if you wear one do your buttons up, please. Drives me crazy.
Only those as dumb as a sack of spanners could fail to understand that how someone in the public eye comports themselves conveys a message to observers. However, please do keep railing on about how stupid the electorate is.
Anyway, I'm going to pull a Roger and quote an eavesdropped conversation from the pub last night. Three people in their mid-20s were discussing Corbyn, mostly. One seemed to assume the other 2 had voted Labour in the last election.
The reply: "well, there was all that fear mongering at the start but its not come true and we've done alright the last five years"
The Labour supporter's jaw might still be on the floor.
There are many over 50s for whom this still counts. And they are the ones you want to appeal to - they vote. Willfully acknowledging that you might give a bad impression but you don't care about the opinions of those you are trying to win over is not the way to make electoral progress.
Nixon was said to have lost the 1960 Presidential election to JFK because he lost the debate - and he lost that debate because under the studio lighting, he looked like he hadn't shaved. These things matter.
It's about respect.
I'd take my shoes off in a mosque or synagogue. Be polite and respectful to the Pope. Or wear a suit at a remebrance service.
Re: electoral thresholds you've got it the wrong way round. You elect a representative to use their judgement on your behalf. If you are fine with any outcome you don't have to vote. A vote on strike action is much closer to a referendum where you are seeking positive endorsement of a decision. That demands a threshold.
Illegitimate? I do not think so. The message was that the SNP as an anti-british party would have a major influence over Labour in a coalition. Having gone through 5 years of a coalition "influenced" by the Lib Dems, the voters were asked if they wanted another coalition influenced by the SNP. Enough voters decided in England "no thanks".
BANG.
To try and keep your own source of funding while blocking that or your political opponents isn't positive.
A pity he didn't realise this in time to start on the correct foot, but now, he only needs to be honest & acknowledge his mistake. It's been a very busy & pressured time for him - one can't think of everything.
I see no reason why union management should have free rein in this matter rather than it being a power reserved to the members
TSE, the Tory campaign didn't seek to change people's minds to take that view. The early canvassing showed that view was very prevalent even before the campaign literature was sent out. People raised it spontaneously with me, numerous times. In the later campaign, we focused on a concern that many people had already expressed.
That image of a little Ed peering out of Salmond's top pocket was the single most potent campaign poster since "Labour Isn't Working" of 1979. Whoever designed it should be up for an award.
Frankly if your ground intelligence through canvassing does not predict you are going to lose incumbent seats then your ground game is in a terrible state. What would be intersting is if this is because of a dramatic decline in the volunteers on the ground in those incumbent seats. I suspect that the loss of councillors is a factor. Something they knew but chose to overlook. There is also the tendency amongst their MPs for them to regard their vote as entirely personal and one which comes from their unique brilliance and wonderfulness. Loss of the protest vote probably amounted to a 1/3 of the decline in % terms.
So let's deal with facts.
And whose to say most big business wasn't happy with the idea of Obama anyway.
Certainly I haven't seen a reduction in concentration of power and wealth over there in my lifetime.
QT any good?
QT was the usual Leftie Fest, with the usual 2/3rds Leftie audience. You ain't missed much.
Someone posted yesterday that the refugees at the Hungarian border had started rioting after only 36 hours. According to this poster their anger after only 36 hours showed what a lucky escape the Hungarians had in keeping these uncivilized barbarians out.
Has anyone ever been at an airport where there are delays of 10 hours let alone 36? Where there are screaming children and no faciities and no one giving out information? Would anyone find this bearable if it was happening to them or their families?
I found the post shocking and was surprised it not only went unchallenged but received some approval. This as the most insidious sort of racism. The belief in an underclass less human than ourselves
Miss C, rarely, but it does sometimes happen. Don't forget the election
Some time changes affecting #bbcsp this weekend, plus two extended #bbcdp editions next week with @afneil @Jo_Coburn
@theSNP: .@NicolaSturgeon - John Swinney to be campaign director, Stewart Hosie will oversee manifesto and Mhairi Black to spearhead youth campaign.
His behaviour to date indicates to me that he has little understanding of people and quite possibly little empathy as well. I do not want someone like that with their hands on the levers of power.
11000 invading Muslim immigrants surge across Croatia. UK media covers this by showing pics of upset immigrant babies. We are being played.
Are you saying throwing rocks at police is acceptable behaviour? Are you saying the scenes in Croatia yesterday where young men stampeded through with no regard to the women or children were acceptable?
If your flight is seriously delayed you have the right to claim compensation and be put up in a hotel.
The migrants had no legal right to be allowed into Hungary having passed through a large number of safe countries where they should have claimed asylum.
Bullingdon Bullingdon BULLINGDON ... 30 years ago
He was there when on Black Friday ... 25 years ago
Watermelon Eyes ... Boris the Racist ... Simple misrepresentation
It might have a little more to do with Corbyn running away from interviews.
On McDonnell, I expect there is far more to come out, and that this was a political apology. I'd say he has more of a back story than Corbyn for supporting dodgy causes. Anyone studied the Troops Out people in the 1980s for example?
The guy was sacked by Ken Livingstone for being too extreme, ffs.
Really? You have a Leader with ratings in the gutter and a campagn that loses 80%+ of the seats that you are defending and yet the head of the campaign, Ashdown, has no blame? Amazing at how tolerant of failure Lib dems are. We can still see Ashdown swanning around in the media as an expert of everything and nothing... yet he presided over the biggest election failure of the Lib Dems and probably the biggest of the old Liberal party.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34287676
And the counter is also true - fear-mongering with no punchline damages you more.
'Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.'
Don't think your average voter let alone Worcester woman finds a leader that resembles a Tramp very inspiring.
"Illegal immigrants from more than 80 countries have complained about being served food that is too British as they await deportation."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3238908/Removal-centre-ordered-make-food-British-illegal-immigrants-waiting-shipped-80-countries.html#ixzz3m4yc1OxN
So to answer your question. No, I don't particularly trust suits or well to do areas.
Is that your case?
It also does a disservice to genuine refugees. Many people will assume they're all bad and distrust the media, portraying the migrants unconvincingly as angels. Many are genuine refugees, many are not. Claiming they're all refugees is palpable nonsense, and damages the credibility of the media who claim it.
Mr. Betting, pah.
Yesterday on Sky, the camera crew on the only bit of the Croation border not bristling with guards, saw a family with a kid in a wheelchair trundling by, and jumped towards them "Oh LOOK!!! A child in a wheelchair!!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ2bvR3BT_g
WRT Corbyn, there are plenty of reasons to challenge him. The relative position of a button to a piece of cotton is simply not one of them.
But I did have to get a taxi from Stockholm to Brussels
Except maybe carrying a puppy.
Full-scale denial over took Nick Palmer a while back - all the more surprising as an experienced ex-MP and campaigner who was a colleague of Jeremy Corbyn for 13 years. It's surprising that the denial seems to be spreading; Labour is a long way off recovery if they are still in Panglossian mode.
Mr. Palmer, crying wolf suggests those things didn't happen.
A man aspiring to lead this country couldn't bring himself to sing the national anthem at a service to remember the war dead. That's not going to impress the average chap on the street.
Edited extra bit: Miss Plato, my thoughts exactly. If they dislike the food, they'll be happy to enjoy their own preferences when they're out of the country.
45 minutes wasn't it?
"Well IMO it is foolish to judge a man by how he looks. Go watch the Kray movie if you need another data point."
Surprisingly good in parts and an outstanding performance by Tom Hardy
Yeah, right - a cultural kitchen - full of cultural knives - is just what is needed...
Your only concern is newspapers will undermine their future attacks on Jeremy’s policies?
Competent.
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
lf anything breaks up the Union it will be Labours botched devolution - and Labour's wipeout in Scotland was entirely the result of their own botched occupation of the place for over a generation.
If they like, we could always adopt some other cultural customs such as beheadings, hand removals and throwing people off high rise buildings to remind them what we're generously helping them avoid.