Things have come to a pretty pass when even sensible Labour supporters such as Jonathan are reduced to trying to convince themselves that Corbyn looking shifty and scruffy at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain doesn't matter politically. (And that's without even mentioning the national anthem stuff).
FWIW I haven't said it doesn't matter politically. Sadly it does. Nevertheless, I do think it's daft and over-egged by Tories who are having jolly good fun and enjoying some faux outrage. I would expect 'sensible' Tories like you to call that out for the fluff it is.
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
You're right that the policies are what should be important. The problem is that all this stuff is putting Lab on the back foot. They need to stop giving the media ammunition so they can get onto the front foot and attack the government.
I am not sure Corbyn and co are all that bothered. Arguably since their goal is to introduce themselves as something different, they are probably quite relaxed about it. Whether that is wise remains to be seen.
Things have come to a pretty pass when even sensible Labour supporters such as Jonathan are reduced to trying to convince themselves that Corbyn looking shifty and scruffy at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain doesn't matter politically. (And that's without even mentioning the national anthem stuff).
FWIW I haven't said it doesn't matter politically. Sadly it does. Nevertheless, I do think it's daft and over-egged by Tories who are having jolly good fun and enjoying some faux outrage. I would expect 'sensible' Tories like you to call that out for the fluff it is.
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
How can it be fluff, yet matter politically?
Because sometimes fluff matters.
So all the people you have been arguing against that said it matters were right?
What I find genuinely perplexing is that Corbyn's campaign team were pretty good at media stuff, then the moment he was elected - it fell apart on an epic scale.
And who on Earth thought Director of Rebuttal was a good job title for a spin doctor? It smacks of victim-mindset.
TBH, I'm mostly concerned that the ineptness of the LotO and his office will just encourage even more infiltration by Unite. I noticed last night that Corbyn's Ch of Staff will be the ex Unite Head of Political Policy.
Labour are now being run by Unite in a very conspicuous hands-on way, not just bankrolled.
Things have come to a pretty pass when even sensible Labour supporters such as Jonathan are reduced to trying to convince themselves that Corbyn looking shifty and scruffy at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain doesn't matter politically. (And that's without even mentioning the national anthem stuff).
FWIW I haven't said it doesn't matter politically. Sadly it does. Nevertheless, I do think it's daft and over-egged by Tories who are having jolly good fun and enjoying some faux outrage. I would expect 'sensible' Tories like you to call that out for the fluff it is.
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
You're right that the policies are what should be important. The problem is that all this stuff is putting Lab on the back foot. They need to stop giving the media ammunition so they can get onto the front foot and attack the government.
Things have come to a pretty pass when even sensible Labour supporters such as Jonathan are reduced to trying to convince themselves that Corbyn looking shifty and scruffy at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain doesn't matter politically. (And that's without even mentioning the national anthem stuff).
FWIW I haven't said it doesn't matter politically. Sadly it does. Nevertheless, I do think it's daft and over-egged by Tories who are having jolly good fun and enjoying some faux outrage. I would expect 'sensible' Tories like you to call that out for the fluff it is.
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
How can it be fluff, yet matter politically?
Because sometimes fluff matters.
So all the people you have been arguing against that said it matters were right?
FWIW I haven't said it doesn't matter politically. Sadly it does. Nevertheless, I do think it's daft and over-egged by Tories who are having jolly good fun and enjoying some faux outrage. I would expect 'sensible' Tories like you to call that out for the fluff it is.
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
It's not fluff. I'm not outraged, of course - it's hardly a surprise, Jeremy Corbyn is Jeremy Corbyn, and he's perfectly entitled to do what he likes and he's always been the same. If he wants to insult the Queen and fail to honour those who died for their country in the way which most people would consider appropriate, that's up to him. It's a free country, unlike most of those which he has been particularly fond of in his political career.
All that is happening here is that the public (hardly any of whom had heard of him until recently) are getting to know him a bit better. No-one is over-egging it: it is just what it is. Corbyn is completely out of step with the voters Labour needs to win back.
What I find genuinely perplexing is that Corbyn's campaign team were pretty good at media stuff, then the moment he was elected - it fell apart on an epic scale.
And who on Earth thought Director of Rebuttal was a good job title for a spin doctor? It smacks of victim-mindset.
TBH, I'm mostly concerned that the ineptness of the LotO and his office will just encourage even more infiltration by Unite. I noticed last night that Corbyn's Ch of Staff will be the ex Unite Head of Political Policy.
Labour are now being run by Unite in a very conspicuous hands-on way, not just bankrolled.
Things have come to a pretty pass when even sensible Labour supporters such as Jonathan are reduced to trying to convince themselves that Corbyn looking shifty and scruffy at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain doesn't matter politically. (And that's without even mentioning the national anthem stuff).
FWIW I haven't said it doesn't matter politically. Sadly it does. Nevertheless, I do think it's daft and over-egged by Tories who are having jolly good fun and enjoying some faux outrage. I would expect 'sensible' Tories like you to call that out for the fluff it is.
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
You're right that the policies are what should be important. The problem is that all this stuff is putting Lab on the back foot. They need to stop giving the media ammunition so they can get onto the front foot and attack the government.
I'm sure it suited Unite's aims rather nicely to have Corbyn look a shambles until surrounded by their people....
FWIW I haven't said it doesn't matter politically. Sadly it does. Nevertheless, I do think it's daft and over-egged by Tories who are having jolly good fun and enjoying some faux outrage. I would expect 'sensible' Tories like you to call that out for the fluff it is.
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
It's not fluff. I'm not outraged, of course - it's hardly a surprise, Jeremy Corbyn is Jeremy Corbyn, and he's perfectly entitled to do what he likes and he's always been the same. If he wants to insult the Queen and fail to honour those who died for their country in the way which most people would consider appropriate, that's up to him. It's a free country, unlike most of those which he has been particularly fond of in his political career.
All that is happening here is that the public (hardly any of whom had heard of him until recently) are getting to know him a bit better. No-one is over-egging it: it is just what it is. Corbyn is completely out of step with the voters Labour needs to win back.
Nah, there is a quite a lot of egg in this particular custard. If a Tory politician had done it, you would not give a toss.
As I say, there are other things to care about rather than buttons.
What I find genuinely perplexing is that Corbyn's campaign team were pretty good at media stuff, then the moment he was elected - it fell apart on an epic scale.
And who on Earth thought Director of Rebuttal was a good job title for a spin doctor? It smacks of victim-mindset.
TBH, I'm mostly concerned that the ineptness of the LotO and his office will just encourage even more infiltration by Unite. I noticed last night that Corbyn's Ch of Staff will be the ex Unite Head of Political Policy.
Labour are now being run by Unite in a very conspicuous hands-on way, not just bankrolled.
Things have come to a pretty pass when even sensible Labour supporters such as Jonathan are reduced to trying to convince themselves that Corbyn looking shifty and scruffy at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain doesn't matter politically. (And that's without even mentioning the national anthem stuff).
FWIW I haven't said it doesn't matter politically. Sadly it does. Nevertheless, I do think it's daft and over-egged by Tories who are having jolly good fun and enjoying some faux outrage. I would expect 'sensible' Tories like you to call that out for the fluff it is.
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
You're right that the policies are what should be important. The problem is that all this stuff is putting Lab on the back foot. They need to stop giving the media ammunition so they can get onto the front foot and attack the government.
I'm sure it suited Unite's aims rather nicely to have Corbyn look a shambles until surrounded by their people....
Next to Corbyn, Tom Watson's looking good isn't he? A hop and a skip, and he'll go from Deputy to Leader.
Things have come to a pretty pass when even sensible Labour supporters such as Jonathan are reduced to trying to convince themselves that Corbyn looking shifty and scruffy at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain doesn't matter politically. (And that's without even mentioning the national anthem stuff).
FWIW I haven't said it doesn't matter politically. Sadly it does. Nevertheless, I do think it's daft and over-egged by Tories who are having jolly good fun and enjoying some faux outrage. I would expect 'sensible' Tories like you to call that out for the fluff it is.
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
You're right that the policies are what should be important. The problem is that all this stuff is putting Lab on the back foot. They need to stop giving the media ammunition so they can get onto the front foot and attack the government.
I am not sure Corbyn and co are all that bothered. Arguably since their goal is to introduce themselves as something different, they are probably quite relaxed about it. Whether that is wise remains to be seen.
I'd agree with that. It should't really matter but it does. The media like trivialities and many members of the public like to obsess about trivialities. It's so much easier that policy detail.
Actually, I think those who want to attack Corbyn and co over their dress and so on should be careful not to overegg it. It's not irrelevant - it shows to an extent whether they share cultural values with the electorate - but nor is it anything like as significant as policy differences. And it's policy differences that will be the killer. The public would accept a competent eccentric; they won't accept a grossly incompetent individual (or team), no matter what their PR.
Non-Conservatives may disagree about that last line but those that do should remember that it's the public's opinion in general that matters, not theirs, and that politics is a relative game so it doesn't particularly matter if you're a bit rubbish (which I don't think Cameron is, for the record), if the alternative is a lot rubbish.
What I find genuinely perplexing is that Corbyn's campaign team were pretty good at media stuff, then the moment he was elected - it fell apart on an epic scale.
And who on Earth thought Director of Rebuttal was a good job title for a spin doctor? It smacks of victim-mindset.
TBH, I'm mostly concerned that the ineptness of the LotO and his office will just encourage even more infiltration by Unite. I noticed last night that Corbyn's Ch of Staff will be the ex Unite Head of Political Policy.
Labour are now being run by Unite in a very conspicuous hands-on way, not just bankrolled.
Things have come to a pretty pass when even sensible Labour supporters such as Jonathan are reduced to trying to convince themselves that Corbyn looking shifty and scruffy at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain doesn't matter politically. (And that's without even mentioning the national anthem stuff).
FWIW I haven't said it doesn't matter politically. Sadly it does. Nevertheless, I do think it's daft and over-egged by Tories who are having jolly good fun and enjoying some faux outrage. I would expect 'sensible' Tories like you to call that out for the fluff it is.
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
You're right that the policies are what should be important. The problem is that all this stuff is putting Lab on the back foot. They need to stop giving the media ammunition so they can get onto the front foot and attack the government.
I'm sure it suited Unite's aims rather nicely to have Corbyn look a shambles until surrounded by their people....
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.
I've recently started wearing hats. Trying to provide jobs for milliners, who've had some rough decades I'd expect.
chuckle.
Anyway, I'm going to pull a Roger and quote an eavesdropped conversation from the pub last night. Three people in their mid-20s were discussing Corbyn, mostly. One seemed to assume the other 2 had voted Labour in the last election.
The reply: "well, there was all that fear mongering at the start but its not come true and we've done alright the last five years"
The Labour supporter's jaw might still be on the floor.
What is fascinating about that is the suggestion that Labour's greatest weapon - fear of what the Tories will do to you - is losing its potency. And with the great uncertainties around what a Corbyn Govt. would actually do, they are allowing that weapon to be pointed back at themselves.
BANG.
Depends on what your lot do now, of course. Regaining that fear by trying too much would be a mistake I think.
Yeah.
And the counter is also true - fear-mongering with no punchline damages you more.
Indeed - a problem that has been the case for Labour against the Tories, and which they are doubling down on at the moment if Henry's piece theother day is any indication, inthe hope that the Tories do in fact provide the puncline (I think it is far too early to tell if they will or not)
I don't think many Tories on here are outraged at Corbyn. I think we just think it's a bit disrespectful and worthy of criticism, but it's not defining our view of the man. I'm much more alarmed at him appointing racists and terrorist supporters to the shadow cabinet.
Equally, if a Tory had done it, I'd think it would be disrespectful and worthy of criticism, but it wouldn't define my view of them.
Things have come to a pretty pass when even sensible Labour supporters such as Jonathan are reduced to trying to convince themselves that Corbyn looking shifty and scruffy at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain doesn't matter politically. (And that's without even mentioning the national anthem stuff).
FWIW I haven't said it doesn't matter politically. Sadly it does. Nevertheless, I do think it's daft and over-egged by Tories who are having jolly good fun and enjoying some faux outrage. I would expect 'sensible' Tories like you to call that out for the fluff it is.
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
You're right that the policies are what should be important. The problem is that all this stuff is putting Lab on the back foot. They need to stop giving the media ammunition so they can get onto the front foot and attack the government.
I am not sure Corbyn and co are all that bothered. Arguably since their goal is to introduce themselves as something different, they are probably quite relaxed about it. Whether that is wise remains to be seen.
I'd agree with that. It should't really matter but it does. The media like trivialities and many members of the public like to obsess about trivialities. It's so much easier that policy detail.
Actually, I think those who want to attack Corbyn and co over their dress and so on should be careful not to overegg it. It's not irrelevant - it shows to an extent whether they share cultural values with the electorate - but nor is it anything like as significant as policy differences. And it's policy differences that will be the killer. The public would accept a competent eccentric; they won't accept a grossly incompetent individual (or team), no matter what their PR.
Non-Conservatives may disagree about that last line but those that do should remember that it's the public's opinion in general that matters, not theirs, and that politics is a relative game so it doesn't particularly matter if you're a bit rubbish (which I don't think Cameron is, for the record), if the alternative is a lot rubbish.
Nah, there is a quite a lot of egg in this particular custard. If a Tory politician had done it, you would not give a toss.
I think that the possibility of a Tory politician being like Jeremy Corbyn is rather remote!
In any case you misunderstand the point. I don't give a toss about it. I'm a tolerant sort of chap. But lots of people do, and most importantly many of them are precisely the sort of voter whom Labour desperately needs to attract. Instead Corbyn is - entirely predictably - doing a very good job of repelling the key voters you've already got.
'Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.'
Don't think your average voter let alone Worcester woman finds a leader that resembles a Tramp very inspiring.
Im sure they wouldn't, but Ihave to agree the attacks on Corbyn's style are a little overblown, as he doesn't look that bad, in fact he usually looks fine if a little informal at times for my own tastes.
And who on Earth thought Director of Rebuttal was a good job title for a spin doctor? It smacks of victim-mindset.
The victim mindset seems to be widespread among Corbyn supporters. Even on here, many use the term "PB Tories" as if it's some term of abuse and a mark of someone whose view should be discounted, not just on political philosophy but also on predictions. I'm proud to be a PB Tory. While I was lurking at the time, my fellow PB Tories were correct on Brown, correct on Miliband and are now correct on Corbyn. Perhaps one day Labour supporters will start listening to criticism from outside their bubble, and that will be the day they start the road to recovery. It seems a long way off.
What I find genuinely perplexing is that Corbyn's campaign team were pretty good at media stuff, then the moment he was elected - it fell apart on an epic scale.
And who on Earth thought Director of Rebuttal was a good job title for a spin doctor? It smacks of victim-mindset.
TBH, I'm mostly concerned that the ineptness of the LotO and his office will just encourage even more infiltration by Unite. I noticed last night that Corbyn's Ch of Staff will be the ex Unite Head of Political Policy.
Labour are now being run by Unite in a very conspicuous hands-on way, not just bankrolled.
Things have come to a pretty pass when even sensible Labour supporters such as Jonathan are reduced to trying to convince themselves that Corbyn looking shifty and scruffy at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain doesn't matter politically. (And that's without even mentioning the national anthem stuff).
FWIW I haven't said it doesn't matter politically. Sadly it does. Nevertheless, I do think it's daft and over-egged by Tories who are having jolly good fun and enjoying some faux outrage. I would expect 'sensible' Tories like you to call that out for the fluff it is.
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
You're right that the policies are what should be important. The problem is that all this stuff is putting Lab on the back foot. They need to stop giving the media ammunition so they can get onto the front foot and attack the government.
I'm sure it suited Unite's aims rather nicely to have Corbyn look a shambles until surrounded by their people....
Surely the point here is that to make a decision to *not-conform* to the accepted public standard at a remembrance service is a stupid bit of self-indulgence.
Whether we personally agree with dressing in a relaxed manner is irrelevant. If you don't want to unnecessarily alienate your own base - don't do it.
The scruffians who voted for him wouldn't care that he wore matching jacket and trousers, did up his top button et al - but those for whom it does matter, it's disrespectful.
All politicians have a well of goodwill/honeymoon/give them a go during their first few weeks - Jezza is burning through his totally unnecessarily on stupidity.
'Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.'
Don't think your average voter let alone Worcester woman finds a leader that resembles a Tramp very inspiring.
Im sure they wouldn't, but Ihave to agree the attacks on Corbyn's style are a little overblown, as he doesn't look that bad, in fact he usually looks fine if a little informal at times for my own tastes.
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.
Not wearing a tie is one thing, wearing a tie and not doing your top button is just stupid.
Nah, it's daft to care about such things. I don't care what anyone does with their shirt button and what I do with my shirt buttons is my own business and no-one elses.
Barbarian.
If anything there can be a correlation between barbarianism and smartness. For example, Idi Amin was very smart and would have certainly passed the button test. You cannot judge people on buttons.
I disagree. For example if you're walking around an area where most people are smartly dressed you're probably in a safer and more civilised district than one where people deliberately dress shabbily.
I'm proud to be a card-carrying Tory on here too - we're doing good stuff and I'm pleased to be associated with it. Sometimes we get things wrong, but we'd never allow a Tory Corbyn on the ballot nor seek to defend him.
Given I was a Blairite until Cameron came along, I find insults from the Left rather amusing - especially from Roger who does love to hate me. And Yes, @roger you were quoting me earlier today. I'm so delighted that I'm now a racist for pointing out the behaviour of illegal immigrants to Croatia.
And who on Earth thought Director of Rebuttal was a good job title for a spin doctor? It smacks of victim-mindset.
The victim mindset seems to be widespread among Corbyn supporters. Even on here, many use the term "PB Tories" as if it's some term of abuse and a mark of someone whose view should be discounted, not just on political philosophy but also on predictions. I'm proud to be a PB Tory. While I was lurking at the time, my fellow PB Tories were correct on Brown, correct on Miliband and are now correct on Corbyn. Perhaps one day Labour supporters will start listening to criticism from outside their bubble, and that will be the day they start the road to recovery. It seems a long way off.
Labour are now being run by Unite in a very conspicuous hands-on way, not just bankrolled.
It solves one problem - if Labour splits then those leaving can take the name "labour" with them and Corbyn can be the Unite party (which in the event of disunity would give the media another ribtickling opportunity to point out more ineptness)
Things have come to a pretty pass when even sensible Labour supporters such as Jonathan are reduced to trying to convince themselves that Corbyn looking shifty and scruffy at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain doesn't matter politically. (And that's without even mentioning the national anthem stuff).
FWIW I haven't said it doesn't matter politically. Sadly it does. Nevertheless, I do think it's daft and over-egged by Tories who are having jolly good fun and enjoying some faux outrage. I would expect 'sensible' Tories like you to call that out for the fluff it is.
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
Not wearing a suit, not wearing the right sized shirt and not doing his tie up properly at a ceremony in which the country is honouring those who kept the Nazis at bay was tremendously disrespectful, not only to those who died, but also to the Labour party itself and the nine million plus people who voted Labour in May. Corbyn holds a position of tremendous responsibility - not only in terms of politics, but also symbolically.
Not singing the anthem in isolation is no big deal - I think most people would understand that a lifelong Republican and atheist would struggle with the words - but not doing it while dressed as a bloke who has just picked up a random selection of clothing from Oxfam is an absolute killer. Corbyn meant no disrespect, but the fact that he clearly did not think it was important says it all. He has no empathy with the way the vast majority of people of all political persuasions view such events or this country's history.
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.
Not wearing a tie is one thing, wearing a tie and not doing your top button is just stupid.
Nah, it's daft to care about such things. I don't care what anyone does with their shirt button and what I do with my shirt buttons is my own business and no-one elses.
Barbarian.
If anything there can be a correlation between barbarianism and smartness. For example, Idi Amin was very smart and would have certainly passed the button test. You cannot judge people on buttons.
I disagree. For example if you're walking around an area where most people are smartly dressed you're probably in a safer and more civilised district than one where people deliberately dress shabbily.
No, that's just prejudice.
You really believe places where most people are mostly wearing suits, like Canary Wharf, are equally safe as places where most people dress more informally, like Wembley?
Have some experience. My father was punched in the face in the City by a stranger in a suit simply passing the other way. It was a completely unprovoked attack. Smashed my father's glasses and the blood was impressive. Shocking. I imagine the guy had a bad day or was high.
So to answer your question. No, I don't particularly trust suits or well to do areas.
Surely the point here is that to make a decision to *not-conform* to the accepted public standard at a remembrance service is a stupid bit of self-indulgence.
Whether we personally agree with dressing in a relaxed manner is irrelevant. If you don't want to unnecessarily alienate your own base - don't do it.
The scruffians who voted for him wouldn't care that he wore matching jacket and trousers, did up his top button et al - but those for whom it does matter, it's disrespectful.
All politicians have a well of goodwill/honeymoon/give them a go during their first few weeks - Jezza is burning through his totally unnecessarily on stupidity.
'Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.'
Don't think your average voter let alone Worcester woman finds a leader that resembles a Tramp very inspiring.
Im sure they wouldn't, but Ihave to agree the attacks on Corbyn's style are a little overblown, as he doesn't look that bad, in fact he usually looks fine if a little informal at times for my own tastes.
Oh I agree it is an unnecessary thing to do, and to maintain it even at such an event is a clear sign of an imaging thing, as normal people acquiesce to expectations to such events even if they don't like to be so formal, so it's a deliberate choice to be different for no real reason - I just don't think he's as scruffy as reports make it sound, and if he's described as looking like a tramp when at worst it's not as polished as one would expect at such an event, it makes it seem silly, even whenthe underlying point, about respext, is not.
FWIW I haven't said it doesn't matter politically. Sadly it does. Nevertheless, I do think it's daft and over-egged by Tories who are having jolly good fun and enjoying some faux outrage. I would expect 'sensible' Tories like you to call that out for the fluff it is.
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
It's not fluff. I'm not outraged, of course - it's hardly a surprise, Jeremy Corbyn is Jeremy Corbyn, and he's perfectly entitled to do what he likes and he's always been the same. If he wants to insult the Queen and fail to honour those who died for their country in the way which most people would consider appropriate, that's up to him. It's a free country, unlike most of those which he has been particularly fond of in his political career.
All that is happening here is that the public (hardly any of whom had heard of him until recently) are getting to know him a bit better. No-one is over-egging it: it is just what it is. Corbyn is completely out of step with the voters Labour needs to win back.
Nah, there is a quite a lot of egg in this particular custard. If a Tory politician had done it, you would not give a toss.
As I say, there are other things to care about rather than buttons.
Of course there are but if you think a person's appearance doesn't matter then you are making a big mistake.
What we choose to wear and how we wear it, along with other factors under our control, sends a signal to other people about what sort of person we are and how we view the world. People don't dress by accident they choose what clothes to wear. How we appear to others essentially frames the early conversation and relationship we have with that other person.
Dressing solely to please ourselves without regard to the impact our appearance might have on people we wish to influence is in effect saying to those others that you do not care about their opinions and expectations. In effect that you do not care about them. Which is fair enough if that is how you want to be perceived. It may not be the best course of action if you seek to influence those people, as a politician must if he or she wants to win their votes.
I don't think many Tories on here are outraged at Corbyn
What I have been pointing out is that if Corbyn fails to understand the way the electorate thinks then he is not likely to do well. To me he is coming over as more of an idealogue than a politician.
FWIW I have never been a member of any political party.
Things have come to a pretty pass when even sensible Labour supporters such as Jonathan are reduced to trying to convince themselves that Corbyn looking shifty and scruffy at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain doesn't matter politically. (And that's without even mentioning the national anthem stuff).
FWIW I haven't said it doesn't matter politically. Sadly it does. Nevertheless, I do think it's daft and over-egged by Tories who are having jolly good fun and enjoying some faux outrage. I would expect 'sensible' Tories like you to call that out for the fluff it is.
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
Not wearing a suit, not wearing the right sized shirt and not doing his tie up properly at a ceremony in which the country is honouring those who kept the Nazis at bay was tremendously disrespectful, not only to those who died, but also to the Labour party itself and the nine million plus people who voted Labour in May. Corbyn holds a position of tremendous responsibility - not only in terms of politics, but also symbolically.
As far as I can tell it was a suit and unless you're his tailor I am not sure you can really judge his shirt size. But yes, as endlessly discussed the button was undone.
Things have come to a pretty pass when even sensible Labour supporters such as Jonathan are reduced to trying to convince themselves that Corbyn looking shifty and scruffy at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain doesn't matter politically. (And that's without even mentioning the national anthem stuff).
FWIW I haven't said it doesn't matter politically. Sadly it does. Nevertheless, I do think it's daft and over-egged by Tories who are having jolly good fun and enjoying some faux outrage. I would expect 'sensible' Tories like you to call that out for the fluff it is.
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
Not wearing a suit, not wearing the right sized shirt and not doing his tie up properly at a ceremony in which the country is honouring those who kept the Nazis at bay was tremendously disrespectful, not only to those who died, but also to the Labour party itself and the nine million plus people who voted Labour in May. Corbyn holds a position of tremendous responsibility - not only in terms of politics, but also symbolically.
As far as I can tell it was a suit and unless you're his tailor I am not sure you can really judge his shirt size. But yes, as endlessly discussed the button was undone.
A blue jacket and black trousers does not a suit make.
What we choose to wear and how we wear it, along with other factors under our control, sends a signal to other people about what sort of person we are and how we view the world. People don't dress by accident they choose what clothes to wear. How we appear to others essentially frames the early conversation and relationship we have with that other person.
Dressing solely to please ourselves without regard to the impact our appearance might have on people we wish to influence is in effect saying to those others that you do not care about their opinions and expectations. In effect that you do not care about them. Which is fair enough if that is how you want to be perceived. It may not be the best course of action if you seek to influence those people, as a politician must if he or she wants to win their votes.
It is normal for public-eye roles to have a smarter standard of dress than back-office roles. Mr Corbyn only needs to accept that his role has changed from back-office to (say) Reception and dress accordingly.
A pity he didn't realise this in time to start on the correct foot, but now, he only needs to be honest & acknowledge his mistake. It's been a very busy & pressured time for him - one can't think of everything.
I think most people would think that gets it right. It's a reasonable point to make, but the Sun et al risk devaluing their policy attacks by going overboard on this. If you shout hysterically about everything, there's a cry wolf effect.
If that were true all the red tops would have disappeared by now.
Things have come to a pretty pass when even sensible Labour supporters such as Jonathan are reduced to trying to convince themselves that Corbyn looking shifty and scruffy at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain doesn't matter politically. (And that's without even mentioning the national anthem stuff).
FWIW I haven't said it doesn't matter politically. Sadly it does. Nevertheless, I do think it's daft and over-egged by Tories who are having jolly good fun and enjoying some faux outrage. I would expect 'sensible' Tories like you to call that out for the fluff it is.
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
Not wearing a suit, not wearing the right sized shirt and not doing his tie up properly at a ceremony in which the country is honouring those who kept the Nazis at bay was tremendously disrespectful, not only to those who died, but also to the Labour party itself and the nine million plus people who voted Labour in May. Corbyn holds a position of tremendous responsibility - not only in terms of politics, but also symbolically.
As far as I can tell it was a suit and unless you're his tailor I am not sure you can really judge his shirt size. But yes, as endlessly discussed the button was undone.
This is funny, as the person now making the most noise on this topic, and seemingly desperate to keep it alive, is you.
For me, it's just such an unforced error - he must own a suit. If not, he should have known inc those around him - to go buy one. It's not some great decision of conscious to show respect on behalf of the war dead - lots of his constituents did.
It was a splendid display of All About Me. He doesn't want to change from his cosy bubble life - look at his displacement behaviour. Going on marches, attending constituency events, dressing as if no one cared, getting others to ask questions at PMQs. I think playing in the Big Boys Club has shocked him. I have some sympathy here - but he's not doing this on his lonesome. Either others are allowing him to fail so they can move in, or they're as adolescent as he is.
Surely the point here is that to make a decision to *not-conform* to the accepted public standard at a remembrance service is a stupid bit of self-indulgence.
Whether we personally agree with dressing in a relaxed manner is irrelevant. If you don't want to unnecessarily alienate your own base - don't do it.
The scruffians who voted for him wouldn't care that he wore matching jacket and trousers, did up his top button et al - but those for whom it does matter, it's disrespectful.
All politicians have a well of goodwill/honeymoon/give them a go during their first few weeks - Jezza is burning through his totally unnecessarily on stupidity.
'Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.'
Don't think your average voter let alone Worcester woman finds a leader that resembles a Tramp very inspiring.
Im sure they wouldn't, but Ihave to agree the attacks on Corbyn's style are a little overblown, as he doesn't look that bad, in fact he usually looks fine if a little informal at times for my own tastes.
Oh I agree it is an unnecessary thing to do, and to maintain it even at such an event is a clear sign of an imaging thing, as normal people acquiesce to expectations to such events even if they don't like to be so formal, so it's a deliberate choice to be different for no real reason - I just don't think he's as scruffy as reports make it sound, and if he's described as looking like a tramp when at worst it's not as polished as one would expect at such an event, it makes it seem silly, even whenthe underlying point, about respext, is not.
Policies that in the main the public agree with, hence the focus on whether the bad man didn't sing a song.
It's odd that no far left party has cruised to power in that case. Can you explain why?
Things like publically controlled public transport, as found under the far left administrations of Merkel and Thatcher, you mean? Corbyn's demeanour may be far out of the mainstream but his policies are moderate social democrat, unless you can point out anything that shows otherwise?
It is normal for public-eye roles to have a smarter standard of dress than back-office roles. Mr Corbyn only needs to accept that his role has changed from back-office to (say) Reception and dress accordingly.
A pity he didn't realise this in time to start on the correct foot, but now, he only needs to be honest & acknowledge his mistake. It's been a very busy & pressured time for him - one can't think of everything.
I think most people would think that gets it right. It's a reasonable point to make, but the Sun et al risk devaluing their policy attacks by going overboard on this. If you shout hysterically about everything, there's a cry wolf effect.
If that were true all the red tops would have disappeared by now.
If you hadn't noticed that is the trajectory. Thankfully.
Things have come to a pretty pass when even sensible Labour supporters such as Jonathan are reduced to trying to convince themselves that Corbyn looking shifty and scruffy at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain doesn't matter politically. (And that's without even mentioning the national anthem stuff).
FWIW I haven't said it doesn't matter politically. Sadly it does. Nevertheless, I do think it's daft and over-egged by Tories who are having jolly good fun and enjoying some faux outrage. I would expect 'sensible' Tories like you to call that out for the fluff it is.
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
Not wearing a suit, not wearing the right sized shirt and not doing his tie up properly at a ceremony in which the country is honouring those who kept the Nazis at bay was tremendously disrespectful, not only to those who died, but also to the Labour party itself and the nine million plus people who voted Labour in May. Corbyn holds a position of tremendous responsibility - not only in terms of politics, but also symbolically.
As far as I can tell it was a suit and unless you're his tailor I am not sure you can really judge his shirt size. But yes, as endlessly discussed the button was undone.
The jacket and trousers were not matching, so it was not a suit. There was also a sizeable gap between his neck and the front of the collar on his shirt. That means the shirt was the wrong size. It would have been the easiest thing to pop down to M&S - or to send someone to do it - to get a suit and a decent shirt. Corbyn and none of his team thought it mattered.
Stop their smear campaign and constant negative coverage of Jeremy Corbyn.
Help stop this bias. It's plain to see the British media and the powers that be are afraid of what he might achieve and are committed to smearing his name and reputation at every turn. Help stop this unfair coverage and sign today.
Surely the point here is that to make a decision to *not-conform* to the accepted public standard at a remembrance service is a stupid bit of self-indulgence.
Whether we personally agree with dressing in a relaxed manner is irrelevant. If you don't want to unnecessarily alienate your own base - don't do it.
The scruffians who voted for him wouldn't care that he wore matching jacket and trousers, did up his top button et al - but those for whom it does matter, it's disrespectful.
All politicians have a well of goodwill/honeymoon/give them a go during their first few weeks - Jezza is burning through his totally unnecessarily on stupidity.
'Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.'
Don't think your average voter let alone Worcester woman finds a leader that resembles a Tramp very inspiring.
Im sure they wouldn't, but Ihave to agree the attacks on Corbyn's style are a little overblown, as he doesn't look that bad, in fact he usually looks fine if a little informal at times for my own tastes.
We always encourage young people to dress smartly when they go for a job interview, and what is the leader of the opposition doing but interviewing for the job of PM?
It is normal for public-eye roles to have a smarter standard of dress than back-office roles. Mr Corbyn only needs to accept that his role has changed from back-office to (say) Reception and dress accordingly.
A pity he didn't realise this in time to start on the correct foot, but now, he only needs to be honest & acknowledge his mistake. It's been a very busy & pressured time for him - one can't think of everything.
I think most people would think that gets it right. It's a reasonable point to make, but the Sun et al risk devaluing their policy attacks by going overboard on this. If you shout hysterically about everything, there's a cry wolf effect.
If that were true all the red tops would have disappeared by now.
If you hadn't noticed that is the trajectory. Thankfully.
One suspects that The Mirror's will be steeper, thanks to their industrial scale phone hacking, and associated legal costs. What must they be now, £30 to 50 million?
It is normal for public-eye roles to have a smarter standard of dress than back-office roles. Mr Corbyn only needs to accept that his role has changed from back-office to (say) Reception and dress accordingly.
A pity he didn't realise this in time to start on the correct foot, but now, he only needs to be honest & acknowledge his mistake. It's been a very busy & pressured time for him - one can't think of everything.
I think most people would think that gets it right. It's a reasonable point to make, but the Sun et al risk devaluing their policy attacks by going overboard on this. If you shout hysterically about everything, there's a cry wolf effect.
There is, which the public discount to a degree. But even if the scale of the attacks is judged as excessive, that doesn't mean the criticism itself is dismissed.
Stop their smear campaign and constant negative coverage of Jeremy Corbyn.
Help stop this bias. It's plain to see the British media and the powers that be are afraid of what he might achieve and are committed to smearing his name and reputation at every turn. Help stop this unfair coverage and sign today.
Riveter Bill McKay of Glasgow said: “Incredible that we’re a full 365 days away from the vote, though in fairness last week we were also one year on from absolutely fuck all happening and I didn’t commemorate that.
“It’s nice to see the Sturgeon lass celebrating with the same empty threats she was making a year ago, though of course today they’re empty in a more poignant way.”
We always encourage young people to dress smartly when they go for a job interview, and what is the leader of the opposition doing but interviewing for the job of PM?
Perhaps the increase in school uniforms is a straw in the wind that casual everyday doesn't work any more for public figures.
Mr Corbyn is appealing for our votes, not his own.
I don't think Politician-Centred Politics is an idea that will work even for Jezza.
It won't work for the Corbynistas either, but they won't believe that until they experience the thud.
It is normal for public-eye roles to have a smarter standard of dress than back-office roles. Mr Corbyn only needs to accept that his role has changed from back-office to (say) Reception and dress accordingly.
A pity he didn't realise this in time to start on the correct foot, but now, he only needs to be honest & acknowledge his mistake. It's been a very busy & pressured time for him - one can't think of everything.
I think most people would think that gets it right. It's a reasonable point to make, but the Sun et al risk devaluing their policy attacks by going overboard on this. If you shout hysterically about everything, there's a cry wolf effect.
If that were true all the red tops would have disappeared by now.
If you hadn't noticed that is the trajectory. Thankfully.
One suspects that The Mirror's will be steeper, thanks to their industrial scale phone hacking, and associated legal costs. What must they be now, £30 to 50 million?
Sssshhh... That's not part of the project!
Remember, all the media is Murdoch-owned and evil, unless it supports Labour - in which case they can get away with anything. And however venal and awful the media may be, they're always useful for planting negative stories about others in!
For me, it's just such an unforced error - he must own a suit. If not, he should have known inc those around him - to go buy one. It's not some great decision of conscious to show respect on behalf of the war dead - lots of his constituents did.
It was a splendid display of All About Me. He doesn't want to change from his cosy bubble life - look at his displacement behaviour. Going on marches, attending constituency events, dressing as if no one cared, getting others to ask questions at PMQs. I think playing in the Big Boys Club has shocked him. I have some sympathy here - but he's not doing this on his lonesome. Either others are allowing him to fail so they can move in, or they're as adolescent as he is.
Surely the point here is that to make a decision to *not-conform* to the accepted public standard at a remembrance service is a stupid bit of self-indulgence.
Whether we personally agree with dressing in a relaxed manner is irrelevant. If you don't want to unnecessarily alienate your own base - don't do it.
The scruffians who voted for him wouldn't care that he wore matching jacket and trousers, did up his top button et al - but those for whom it does matter, it's disrespectful.
All politicians have a well of goodwill/honeymoon/give them a go during their first few weeks - Jezza is burning through his totally unnecessarily on stupidity.
'Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.'
Don't think your average voter let alone Worcester woman finds a leader that resembles a Tramp very inspiring.
Im sure they wouldn't, but Ihave to agree the attacks on Corbyn's style are a little overblown, as he doesn't look that bad, in fact he usually looks fine if a little informal at times for my own tastes.
Oh I agree it is an unnecessary thing to do, and to maintain it even at such an event is a clear sign of an imaging thing, as normal people acquiesce to expectations to such events even if they don't like to be so formal, so it's a deliberate choice to be different for no real reason - I just don't think he's as scruffy as reports make it sound, and if he's described as looking like a tramp when at worst it's not as polished as one would expect at such an event, it makes it seem silly, even whenthe underlying point, about respext, is not.
It wasn't All About Me, it was I Really Don't Get This At All And Have No Idea Why It Matters What I Wear Because I have No Point Of Empathy With Most Voters. Corbyn genuinely does not understand. National events do not compute, because he sees the world in terms of class.
Things have come to a pretty pass when even sensible Labour supporters such as Jonathan are reduced to trying to convince themselves that Corbyn looking shifty and scruffy at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain doesn't matter politically. (And that's without even mentioning the national anthem stuff).
FWIW I haven't said it doesn't matter politically. Sadly it does. Nevertheless, I do think it's daft and over-egged by Tories who are having jolly good fun and enjoying some faux outrage. I would expect 'sensible' Tories like you to call that out for the fluff it is.
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
What's wrong with having fun? It isn't that JC didn't set himself up for it? With a little more self awareness and knowledge of the consequences of putting himself up for leader then he could have denied all those Tories their fun, at least at his expense.
Given that The Mirror pummeled Chairman Corbyn for his dress sense and not singing GSTQ - we can presume that they're closer to their demographic than some Labourites on here.
It is normal for public-eye roles to have a smarter standard of dress than back-office roles. Mr Corbyn only needs to accept that his role has changed from back-office to (say) Reception and dress accordingly.
A pity he didn't realise this in time to start on the correct foot, but now, he only needs to be honest & acknowledge his mistake. It's been a very busy & pressured time for him - one can't think of everything.
I think most people would think that gets it right. It's a reasonable point to make, but the Sun et al risk devaluing their policy attacks by going overboard on this. If you shout hysterically about everything, there's a cry wolf effect.
If that were true all the red tops would have disappeared by now.
If you hadn't noticed that is the trajectory. Thankfully.
One suspects that The Mirror's will be steeper, thanks to their industrial scale phone hacking, and associated legal costs. What must they be now, £30 to 50 million?
Sssshhh... That's not part of the project!
Remember, all the media is Murdoch-owned and evil, unless it supports Labour - in which case they can get away with anything. And however venal and awful the media may be, they're always useful for planting negative stories about others in!
Surely the point here is that to make a decision to *not-conform* to the accepted public standard at a remembrance service is a stupid bit of self-indulgence.
Whether we personally agree with dressing in a relaxed manner is irrelevant. If you don't want to unnecessarily alienate your own base - don't do it.
The scruffians who voted for him wouldn't care that he wore matching jacket and trousers, did up his top button et al - but those for whom it does matter, it's disrespectful.
All politicians have a well of goodwill/honeymoon/give them a go during their first few weeks - Jezza is burning through his totally unnecessarily on stupidity.
'Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.'
Don't think your average voter let alone Worcester woman finds a leader that resembles a Tramp very inspiring.
Im sure they wouldn't, but Ihave to agree the attacks on Corbyn's style are a little overblown, as he doesn't look that bad, in fact he usually looks fine if a little informal at times for my own tastes.
Things have come to a pretty pass when even sensible Labour supporters such as Jonathan are reduced to trying to convince themselves that Corbyn looking shifty and scruffy at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain doesn't matter politically. (And that's without even mentioning the national anthem stuff).
FWIW I haven't said it doesn't matter politically. Sadly it does. Nevertheless, I do think it's daft and over-egged by Tories who are having jolly good fun and enjoying some faux outrage. I would expect 'sensible' Tories like you to call that out for the fluff it is.
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
Not wearing a suit, not wearing the right sized shirt and not doing his tie up properly at a ceremony in which the country is honouring those who kept the Nazis at bay was tremendously disrespectful, not only to those who died, but also to the Labour party itself and the nine million plus people who voted Labour in May. Corbyn holds a position of tremendous responsibility - not only in terms of politics, but also symbolically.
As far as I can tell it was a suit and unless you're his tailor I am not sure you can really judge his shirt size. But yes, as endlessly discussed the button was undone.
You do not need to be a tailor to tell someone is wearing badly fitting clothes.
For me, it's just such an unforced error - he must own a suit. If not, he should have known inc those around him - to go buy one. It's not some great decision of conscious to show respect on behalf of the war dead - lots of his constituents did.
Surely the point here is that to make a decision to *not-conform* to the accepted public standard at a remembrance service is a stupid bit of self-indulgence.
Whether we personally agree with dressing in a relaxed manner is irrelevant. If you don't want to unnecessarily alienate your own base - don't do it.
The scruffians who voted for him wouldn't care that he wore matching jacket and trousers, did up his top button et al - but those for whom it does matter, it's disrespectful.
All politicians have a well of goodwill/honeymoon/give them a go during their first few weeks - Jezza is burning through his totally unnecessarily on stupidity.
'Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.'
Don't think your average voter let alone Worcester woman finds a leader that resembles a Tramp very inspiring.
Im sure they wouldn't, but Ihave to agree the attacks on Corbyn's style are a little overblown, as he doesn't look that bad, in fact he usually looks fine if a little informal at times for my own tastes.
Oh I agree it is an unnecessary thing to do, and to maintain it even at such an event is a clear sign of an imaging thing, as normal people acquiesce to expectations to such events even if they don't like to be so formal, so it's a deliberate choice to be different for no real reason - I just don't think he's as scruffy as reports make it sound, and if he's described as looking like a tramp when at worst it's not as polished as one would expect at such an event, it makes it seem silly, even whenthe underlying point, about respext, is not.
It wasn't All About Me, it was I Really Don't Get This At All And Have No Idea Why It Matters What I Wear Because I have No Point Of Empathy With Most Voters. Corbyn genuinely does not understand. National events do not compute, because he sees the world in terms of class.
Surely the point here is that to make a decision to *not-conform* to the accepted public standard at a remembrance service is a stupid bit of self-indulgence.
Whether we personally agree with dressing in a relaxed manner is irrelevant. If you don't want to unnecessarily alienate your own base - don't do it.
The scruffians who voted for him wouldn't care that he wore matching jacket and trousers, did up his top button et al - but those for whom it does matter, it's disrespectful.
All politicians have a well of goodwill/honeymoon/give them a go during their first few weeks - Jezza is burning through his totally unnecessarily on stupidity.
'Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.'
Don't think your average voter let alone Worcester woman finds a leader that resembles a Tramp very inspiring.
Im sure they wouldn't, but Ihave to agree the attacks on Corbyn's style are a little overblown, as he doesn't look that bad, in fact he usually looks fine if a little informal at times for my own tastes.
Stop virtue signalling you pathetic moron.
Wisemann, if you want to be interviewed for the post of resident pb.com misogynist - you'll have to wear a suit and a tie. And do up your top button.
Mentioned earlier but I only read this now. A good piece from Mark Urban, with interesting stats on those from Syria and the Balkans: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34270077
It would seem that we once again have a poster who sees it as their mission to be bloody rude to lady posters. Frankly the site doesn't need that misogyny and was a lot better after the last main practitioner left. I hope that OGH, the Mods and other posters will not allow it to take root again.
Obviously councillors of all political persuasions defect for all sorts of reasons (though mostly personal animus as far as I can see). It's a pity for UKIP that it's already happening on their first majority-controlled council, though:
Quite. When your jacket is two sizes too big and hunches an inch or more above your shoulders when you sit down at PMQs for example.
I remember reading a great tailoring piece re Martyn Lewis [newsreader] - he got his suits specially made so that they looked immaculate when he was sat down. He was IMHO the best dressed presenter I've ever seen.
Things have come to a pretty pass when even sensible Labour supporters such as Jonathan are reduced to trying to convince themselves that Corbyn looking shifty and scruffy at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain doesn't matter politically. (And that's without even mentioning the national anthem stuff).
FWIW I haven't said it doesn't matter politically. Sadly it does. Nevertheless, I do think it's daft and over-egged by Tories who are having jolly good fun and enjoying some faux outrage. I would expect 'sensible' Tories like you to call that out for the fluff it is.
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
Not wearing a suit, not wearing the right sized shirt and not doing his tie up properly at a ceremony in which the country is honouring those who kept the Nazis at bay was tremendously disrespectful, not only to those who died, but also to the Labour party itself and the nine million plus people who voted Labour in May. Corbyn holds a position of tremendous responsibility - not only in terms of politics, but also symbolically.
As far as I can tell it was a suit and unless you're his tailor I am not sure you can really judge his shirt size. But yes, as endlessly discussed the button was undone.
You do not need to be a tailor to tell someone is wearing badly fitting clothes.
For me, it's just such an unforced error - he must own a suit. If not, he should have known inc those around him - to go buy one. It's not some great decision of conscious to show respect on behalf of the war dead - lots of his constituents did.
Surely the point here is that to make a decision to *not-conform* to the accepted public standard at a remembrance service is a stupid bit of self-indulgence.
Whether we personally agree with dressing in a relaxed manner is irrelevant. If you don't want to unnecessarily alienate your own base - don't do it.
The scruffians who voted for him wouldn't care that he wore matching jacket and trousers, did up his top button et al - but those for whom it does matter, it's disrespectful.
All politicians have a well of goodwill/honeymoon/give them a go during their first few weeks - Jezza is burning through his totally unnecessarily on stupidity.
'Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.'
Don't think your average voter let alone Worcester woman finds a leader that resembles a Tramp very inspiring.
Im sure they wouldn't, but Ihave to agree the attacks on Corbyn's style are a little overblown, as he doesn't look that bad, in fact he usually looks fine if a little informal at times for my own tastes.
Oh I agree it is an unnecessary thing to do, and to maintain it even at such an event is a clear sign of an imaging thing, as normal people acquiesce to expectations to such events even if they don't like to be so formal, so it's a deliberate choice to be different for no real reason - I just don't think he's as scruffy as reports make it sound, and if he's described as looking like a tramp when at worst it's not as polished as one would expect at such an event, it makes it seem silly, even whenthe underlying point, about respext, is not.
It wasn't All About Me, it was I Really Don't Get This At All And Have No Idea Why It Matters What I Wear Because I have No Point Of Empathy With Most Voters. Corbyn genuinely does not understand. National events do not compute, because he sees the world in terms of class.
And Culshore pointed out to the (''petulant'') inner Mr Angry
Sky News @SkyNews Lidl to start paying 'living wage' of at least £8.20 an hour - the first supermarket to do so trib.al/jr9ffjd pic.twitter.com/9dqqIf9Nft
Sir, I’m sure I spotted Jeremy Corbyn amongst a group of Morris Men at a Yorkshire rushbearing festival last weekend. Potential Labour leader reconnects with northern working class – shome mishtake shurely? Yours faithfully, ALAN WRIGLEY
Sky News @SkyNews Lidl to start paying 'living wage' of at least £8.20 an hour - the first supermarket to do so trib.al/jr9ffjd pic.twitter.com/9dqqIf9Nft
It will certainly drag them in the right direction. The good staff at other supermarkets will start leaving in favour of Lidl.
It is normal for public-eye roles to have a smarter standard of dress than back-office roles. Mr Corbyn only needs to accept that his role has changed from back-office to (say) Reception and dress accordingly.
A pity he didn't realise this in time to start on the correct foot, but now, he only needs to be honest & acknowledge his mistake. It's been a very busy & pressured time for him - one can't think of everything.
I think most people would think that gets it right. It's a reasonable point to make, but the Sun et al risk devaluing their policy attacks by going overboard on this. If you shout hysterically about everything, there's a cry wolf effect.
If that were true all the red tops would have disappeared by now.
If you hadn't noticed that is the trajectory. Thankfully.
All newspapers are suffering from decreasing circulations largely as a consequence of the growing use of the internet to access news. The red tops have far and away the biggest newspaper footprint across all media. What I've noticed, and you seem to have missed, is that newspapers are no longer restricted to hard copy news
Note to PB Tory virtue signallers - being rude to a human because of their extremely stupid comments ('scruffians' for example), just because they happen to have been born with female genitalia, is not what misogyny means. Plato is only one of the worst of a bad bunch, luckily there are a few thoughtful right wing posters on here that make it worth the odd visit to get alternative opinions.
'As far as I can tell it was a suit and unless you're his tailor I am not sure you can really judge his shirt size. But yes, as endlessly discussed the button was undone.'
It is normal for public-eye roles to have a smarter standard of dress than back-office roles. Mr Corbyn only needs to accept that his role has changed from back-office to (say) Reception and dress accordingly.
A pity he didn't realise this in time to start on the correct foot, but now, he only needs to be honest & acknowledge his mistake. It's been a very busy & pressured time for him - one can't think of everything.
I think most people would think that gets it right. It's a reasonable point to make, but the Sun et al risk devaluing their policy attacks by going overboard on this. If you shout hysterically about everything, there's a cry wolf effect.
If that were true all the red tops would have disappeared by now.
If you hadn't noticed that is the trajectory. Thankfully.
All newspapers are suffering from decreasing circulations largely as a consequence of the growing use of the internet to access news. The red tops have far and away the biggest newspaper footprint across all media. What I've noticed, and you seem to have missed, is that newspapers are no longer restricted to hard copy news
Yes, but the online versions reduce their ability to force the opinions of foreign tax avoiders on the average reader who is more interested in the sport and celebrity news, as people can just skip straight to the articles.
Note to PB Tory virtue signallers - being rude to a human because of their extremely stupid comments ('scruffians' for example), just because they happen to have been born with female genitalia, is not what misogyny means. Plato is only one of the worst of a bad bunch, luckily there are a few thoughtful right wing posters on here that make it worth the odd visit to get alternative opinions.
If it stinks like misogyny , and sounds like misogyny, the chances are that it is, indeed, misogyny.
John McDonnell’s Question Time ‘apology’ was no such thing and I am amazed to see anybody for fall for it. It was obviously insisted upon by Labour party spin-doctors. But as the words themselves show, it was not an apology. Sure, he apologised for causing any offence or upset, but not for the fact that he was wholly and utterly wrong. And wrong not only to have praised people who spent three decades shooting people and planting bombs in public places but wrong on the facts too.
Note to PB Tory virtue signallers - being rude to a human because of their extremely stupid comments ('scruffians' for example), just because they happen to have been born with female genitalia, is not what misogyny means. Plato is only one of the worst of a bad bunch, luckily there are a few thoughtful right wing posters on here that make it worth the odd visit to get alternative opinions.
If it stinks like misogyny , and sounds like misogyny, the chances are that it is, indeed, misogyny.
Note to PB Tory virtue signallers - being rude to a human because of their extremely stupid comments ('scruffians' for example), just because they happen to have been born with female genitalia, is not what misogyny means. Plato is only one of the worst of a bad bunch, luckily there are a few thoughtful right wing posters on here that make it worth the odd visit to get alternative opinions.
If it stinks like misogyny , and sounds like misogyny, the chances are that it is, indeed, misogyny.
No different to us turning a blind eye to the industrial level raping, sodomising and abusing young white girls by muslim men. For the same reasons as well.
Note to PB Tory virtue signallers - being rude to a human because of their extremely stupid comments ('scruffians' for example), just because they happen to have been born with female genitalia, is not what misogyny means. Plato is only one of the worst of a bad bunch, luckily there are a few thoughtful right wing posters on here that make it worth the odd visit to get alternative opinions.
How on earth does criticising someone's clothing signal virtue? Wittering on about letting refugees come to Britain would count, I think, but laughing at a mismatched suit?
The local election results in Haringey seem to suggest that the Green hard left voters are returning to Labour, leaving the Green Party once again as the ineffectual fluffy environmentalists.
It is normal for public-eye roles to have a smarter standard of dress than back-office roles. Mr Corbyn only needs to accept that his role has changed from back-office to (say) Reception and dress accordingly.
A pity he didn't realise this in time to start on the correct foot, but now, he only needs to be honest & acknowledge his mistake. It's been a very busy & pressured time for him - one can't think of everything.
I think most people would think that gets it right. It's a reasonable point to make, but the Sun et al risk devaluing their policy attacks by going overboard on this. If you shout hysterically about everything, there's a cry wolf effect.
If that were true all the red tops would have disappeared by now.
If you hadn't noticed that is the trajectory. Thankfully.
All newspapers are suffering from decreasing circulations largely as a consequence of the growing use of the internet to access news. The red tops have far and away the biggest newspaper footprint across all media. What I've noticed, and you seem to have missed, is that newspapers are no longer restricted to hard copy news
Yes, but the online versions reduce their ability to force the opinions of foreign tax avoiders on the average reader who is more interested in the sport and celebrity news, as people can just skip straight to the articles.
Note to PB Tory virtue signallers - being rude to a human because of their extremely stupid comments ('scruffians' for example), just because they happen to have been born with female genitalia, is not what misogyny means. Plato is only one of the worst of a bad bunch, luckily there are a few thoughtful right wing posters on here that make it worth the odd visit to get alternative opinions.
If it stinks like misogyny , and sounds like misogyny, the chances are that it is, indeed, misogyny.
Misogyny is hatred of females. I love females - I'm even related to a few, and have deigned to take one as my wife. I don't even hate Tories. I do find people who combine extremely glib and superficial opinions and haughty arrogance deeply irritating though, and I make no apologies for that. If you want I'll sit here and flag up a few male morons too. It shouldn't take long. I think your opinions (Jessop) are very misguided, but I wouldn't call you a moron because you don't sit here pasting up daily mail articles and calling people scruffians.
Comments
And who on Earth thought Director of Rebuttal was a good job title for a spin doctor? It smacks of victim-mindset.
TBH, I'm mostly concerned that the ineptness of the LotO and his office will just encourage even more infiltration by Unite. I noticed last night that Corbyn's Ch of Staff will be the ex Unite Head of Political Policy.
Labour are now being run by Unite in a very conspicuous hands-on way, not just bankrolled.
All that is happening here is that the public (hardly any of whom had heard of him until recently) are getting to know him a bit better. No-one is over-egging it: it is just what it is. Corbyn is completely out of step with the voters Labour needs to win back.
As I say, there are other things to care about rather than buttons.
http://takimag.com/article/islams_conquest_of_europe_patrick_buchanan/print#axzz3m4Cm7mYO
Two views on the Muslim Invasion. I agree largely with both of them.
Actually, I think those who want to attack Corbyn and co over their dress and so on should be careful not to overegg it. It's not irrelevant - it shows to an extent whether they share cultural values with the electorate - but nor is it anything like as significant as policy differences. And it's policy differences that will be the killer. The public would accept a competent eccentric; they won't accept a grossly incompetent individual (or team), no matter what their PR.
Non-Conservatives may disagree about that last line but those that do should remember that it's the public's opinion in general that matters, not theirs, and that politics is a relative game so it doesn't particularly matter if you're a bit rubbish (which I don't think Cameron is, for the record), if the alternative is a lot rubbish.
I read a great comment elsewhere that summed Corbyn up as a man who's rapidly discovering what it's like to be a grown-up 50yrs too late.
I don't think many Tories on here are outraged at Corbyn. I think we just think it's a bit disrespectful and worthy of criticism, but it's not defining our view of the man. I'm much more alarmed at him appointing racists and terrorist supporters to the shadow cabinet.
Equally, if a Tory had done it, I'd think it would be disrespectful and worthy of criticism, but it wouldn't define my view of them.
In any case you misunderstand the point. I don't give a toss about it. I'm a tolerant sort of chap. But lots of people do, and most importantly many of them are precisely the sort of voter whom Labour desperately needs to attract. Instead Corbyn is - entirely predictably - doing a very good job of repelling the key voters you've already got.
I'm quite looking forward to this New Politics where someone's school, looks and class no longer matter. Bye bye froth.
Oo la la!
Whether we personally agree with dressing in a relaxed manner is irrelevant. If you don't want to unnecessarily alienate your own base - don't do it.
The scruffians who voted for him wouldn't care that he wore matching jacket and trousers, did up his top button et al - but those for whom it does matter, it's disrespectful.
All politicians have a well of goodwill/honeymoon/give them a go during their first few weeks - Jezza is burning through his totally unnecessarily on stupidity.
Given I was a Blairite until Cameron came along, I find insults from the Left rather amusing - especially from Roger who does love to hate me. And Yes, @roger you were quoting me earlier today. I'm so delighted that I'm now a racist for pointing out the behaviour of illegal immigrants to Croatia.
Not singing the anthem in isolation is no big deal - I think most people would understand that a lifelong Republican and atheist would struggle with the words - but not doing it while dressed as a bloke who has just picked up a random selection of clothing from Oxfam is an absolute killer. Corbyn meant no disrespect, but the fact that he clearly did not think it was important says it all. He has no empathy with the way the vast majority of people of all political persuasions view such events or this country's history.
What we choose to wear and how we wear it, along with other factors under our control, sends a signal to other people about what sort of person we are and how we view the world. People don't dress by accident they choose what clothes to wear. How we appear to others essentially frames the early conversation and relationship we have with that other person.
Dressing solely to please ourselves without regard to the impact our appearance might have on people we wish to influence is in effect saying to those others that you do not care about their opinions and expectations. In effect that you do not care about them. Which is fair enough if that is how you want to be perceived. It may not be the best course of action if you seek to influence those people, as a politician must if he or she wants to win their votes.
FWIW I have never been a member of any political party.
It was a splendid display of All About Me. He doesn't want to change from his cosy bubble life - look at his displacement behaviour. Going on marches, attending constituency events, dressing as if no one cared, getting others to ask questions at PMQs. I think playing in the Big Boys Club has shocked him. I have some sympathy here - but he's not doing this on his lonesome. Either others are allowing him to fail so they can move in, or they're as adolescent as he is.
Neither is a good look.
Help stop this bias. It's plain to see the British media and the powers that be are afraid of what he might achieve and are committed to smearing his name and reputation at every turn. Help stop this unfair coverage and sign today.
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/stop-the-british-media-s-smear-campaign-on-jeremy-corbyn?bucket=
Totally bonkers
We always encourage young people to dress smartly when they go for a job interview, and what is the leader of the opposition doing but interviewing for the job of PM?
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6527/migrants-rape-germany
I do love this Scaredy Cat meme - delusional doesn't even begin to describe it.
It appears to be a kluge of New Militant, Unite and now GLC leftovers.
Mr Corbyn is appealing for our votes, not his own.
I don't think Politician-Centred Politics is an idea that will work even for Jezza.
It won't work for the Corbynistas either, but they won't believe that until they experience the thud.
Remember, all the media is Murdoch-owned and evil, unless it supports Labour - in which case they can get away with anything. And however venal and awful the media may be, they're always useful for planting negative stories about others in!
https://twitter.com/htscotpol/status/644815801267134464
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34283764
Lord Charles Goodhart is definitely the most intelligent man I have ever met.
Daily Politics, 17/09/2015, How easy is it to impersonate Jeremy #Corbyn? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p032r7vq
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34270077
Tickets for Murrayfield are going to be more difficult to come by....
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet/news/thanet-ukip-councillors-in-thanet-43397/
I remember reading a great tailoring piece re Martyn Lewis [newsreader] - he got his suits specially made so that they looked immaculate when he was sat down. He was IMHO the best dressed presenter I've ever seen.
Sky News @SkyNews
Lidl to start paying 'living wage' of at least £8.20 an hour - the first supermarket to do so trib.al/jr9ffjd pic.twitter.com/9dqqIf9Nft
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CPLfwbWWEAAykmT.jpg
http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2015/09/bbc-microbit-delayed-until-next-spring/
Why are they wasting money on this?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-r28Mx0quM&list=PLXnHuK6DnqRHy9gc1HTBEt99IywwWbu00
The good staff at other supermarkets will start leaving in favour of Lidl.
Dr. Spyn, perhaps he was
'As far as I can tell it was a suit and unless you're his tailor I am not sure you can really judge his shirt size. But yes, as endlessly discussed the button was undone.'
Maybe you should give Specsavers a go ?
You really need to get a grip on yourself.