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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited September 2015
    SeanT said:

    justin124 said:

    Naughty

    Jim Pickard ‏@PickardJE 5m5 minutes ago
    ComRes: Despite Corbyn election voting intentions haven't changed significantly: Tories on 42% (up 2 since August) and Labour on 30% (up 1).

    Interesting - particularly as Comres has been pitching Labour lower than other pollsters since May.
    *interesting*??

    lol. The Tory lead has widened, to TWELVE points. New leaders are meant to get a honeymoon and a polling boost.

    All the Corbynites I know on FB and Twitter were claiming that Jezza was surfing a huge wave, and we'd soon be seeing it in the polls. Like, now. To be fair, I thought Corbyn would get a little bounce, too.

    Instead the Tory lead widens.
    Justin's right. ComRes post GE with their new methodology have tended to show the Tories with far bigger leads than other pollsters - their previous polls have also had the Tories will double-digit leads. The movement since he's been leader has been minimal in regard to ComRes - 1 point up/down is MOE. Given his bad publicity this week, he was never going to get a honeymoon period. Most likely Corbyn's election hasn't really affected VI.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    justin124 said:

    SeanT said:

    justin124 said:

    Naughty

    Jim Pickard ‏@PickardJE 5m5 minutes ago
    ComRes: Despite Corbyn election voting intentions haven't changed significantly: Tories on 42% (up 2 since August) and Labour on 30% (up 1).

    Interesting - particularly as Comres has been pitching Labour lower than other pollsters since May.
    *interesting*??

    lol. The Tory lead has widened, to TWELVE points. New leaders are meant to get a honeymoon and a polling boost.

    All the Corbynites I know on FB and Twitter were claiming that Jezza was surfing a huge wave, and we'd soon be seeing it in the polls. Like, now. To be fair, I thought Corbyn would get a little bounce, too.

    Instead the Tory lead widens.
    Not compared with the last Comres poll - which was for the Mail and gave the Tories a 14% lead. I believe 30 is Labour's highest Comres rating since the election - though other pollsters have consistently put them a few points higher.
    Is the latest one an online poll? If so, SeanT has the correct comparison.
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    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    BigRich said:



    But in the end you can not be paid more than the value you create for your employer, or your employer will go bankrupt.

    Who says the living wage is putting low skilled workers up beyond the value for their employers? It's possible the market wage is 20% below the living wage, but the value to employers is 20% higher than the living wage. We might lose a tiny amount of cockle picking-like work, but it'll be small fry in the scheme of things.
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    saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    SeanT said:

    @PickardJE 3m3 minutes ago
    ComRes: Almost twice as Britons say they're unfavourable towards Jeremy Corbyn as say they're favourable (24% favourable v 42% unfavourable)

    Don't forget we are just putting on a brave face, the tories are all absolutely terrified of Jezza, but just won't admit it.
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    JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082
    Corbyn has survived his first real polling test by increasing the labour vote. Well done JC!
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    Back on the tennis - have a pair of brothers ever won the Davis Cup versus the world?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,306
    Are we really going to get excited about a poll? An internet poll? By Comres? Before we have the official report on the shambles that was the election?

    Do we ever learn? Or ask too many rhetorical questions?
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    felix said:

    @felix I'm not a Corbyn supporter.

    If you still plan to vote Labour you are.
    I don't know whether I'm going to vote Labour. Most likely, I'll spoil my ballot, vote LD, or protest vote for the Greens. Not every whose not a died in the wool Tory is a committed Corbynite.

    Join the gang. Labour has lost me as a voter. The election of Corbyn is an absolute disaster for the party and it was obviously going to be so.

    In way, something like this was always going to happen once the modernisers could no longer win GEs and had no ideas about the party going forward. The election of Corbyn, besides revealing the delusion of many activists and members right now, also reveals the failure of the modernisers, and the soft left to have any ideas as to what is the purpose of the Labour party today.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    But it's fun!
    DavidL said:

    Are we really going to get excited about a poll? An internet poll? By Comres? Before we have the official report on the shambles that was the election?

    Do we ever learn? Or ask too many rhetorical questions?

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    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    DavidL said:

    BigRich said:

    Labour abandons support for new Heathrow runway http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4561784.ece

    What's their alternative?

    I guess this means it'll be hard to get the bill through parliament. If Labour can whip their MPs through on it, then there will be enough Conservative rebels for it to fail. The Lib Dems will be against, although it looks as though the SNP might just vote with the government.
    I believe that the DUP and UUP are also in favour of Heathrow expansion. not to mention a hand full of Labour MPs that have small local airports in there constituency's.

    As Heathrow has got busser and busser, many of the landing slots that used to be for flights coming from small UK airports have been squeezed out by bigger planes coming form further afield. I cant remember the exact fingers but I think that there are only 9 UK airports that still have direct flights to Heathrow, compared to 26 that fly to Skipole in the Netherlands!

    P.S. I apologies for any spelling mistakes I am dyslectic and don't what to spend to long fighting with the spell checker or the conversation moves on before I reply.
    I just assumed you were on an iphone with predictive text.
    DavidL,

    I might start using that as an excuse. Is it sufficiently bad to put people of reading my posts? if so I'll spend longer checking what I wright.
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    SeanT said:

    @PickardJE 3m3 minutes ago
    ComRes: Almost twice as Britons say they're unfavourable towards Jeremy Corbyn as say they're favourable (24% favourable v 42% unfavourable)

    What is extraordinary is just how clear it was this would happen. And yet the Useful Idiots joined the hard left in voting him in. Sucg a lack of judgement on its own - never modn all the rest of the baggage that comes with JC and his mates - disqualifies Labour from being taken seriously as a party of potential government.

    Labour canvasser: Isn't Jezza exciting? An unspin breath of fresh air, so polite and talking about the things that really matter to people like you.

    Average voter: You did what? You put an anti-British, unreconstructed class warrior, apologist for terrorism in charge of your party? Are you all insane?

    Labour canvasser: Red Tory

    Average voter: Piss off.

  • Options
    JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082
    To actually increase the Vi for your party after a week of the most brutal media assault since goebbels, what a triumph!
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,306
    Brilliant result for West Ham. Incredible.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,548

    @felix I'm not a Corbyn supporter.

    Did you pick up this post the other day.

    'Tis an analysis of UKIP prospects in South Wales.

    http://elxn-data.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/ukip-labour-and-welsh-assembly.html

    Very interesting for demographics geeks.
  • Options

    felix said:

    @felix I'm not a Corbyn supporter.

    If you still plan to vote Labour you are.
    I don't know whether I'm going to vote Labour. Most likely, I'll spoil my ballot, vote LD, or protest vote for the Greens. Not every whose not a died in the wool Tory is a committed Corbynite.

    Join the gang. Labour has lost me as a voter. The election of Corbyn is an absolute disaster for the party and it was obviously going to be so.

    In way, something like this was always going to happen once the modernisers could no longer win GEs and had no ideas about the party going forward. The election of Corbyn, besides revealing the delusion of many activists and members right now, also reveals the failure of the modernisers, and the soft left to have any ideas as to what is the purpose of the Labour party today.

    I agree. Labour is not only stupid, it is lazy. And it has let down millions and millions of people.

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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Not at all, Mr Rich - you're perfectly fine posting as you are. Mr Fluffy Thoughts tests us all by his use of English and is a PB institution.
    BigRich said:

    DavidL said:

    BigRich said:

    Labour abandons support for new Heathrow runway http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4561784.ece

    What's their alternative?

    I guess this means it'll be hard to get the bill through parliament. If Labour can whip their MPs through on it, then there will be enough Conservative rebels for it to fail. The Lib Dems will be against, although it looks as though the SNP might just vote with the government.
    I believe that the DUP and UUP are also in favour of Heathrow expansion. not to mention a hand full of Labour MPs that have small local airports in there constituency's.

    As Heathrow has got busser and busser, many of the landing slots that used to be for flights coming from small UK airports have been squeezed out by bigger planes coming form further afield. I cant remember the exact fingers but I think that there are only 9 UK airports that still have direct flights to Heathrow, compared to 26 that fly to Skipole in the Netherlands!

    P.S. I apologies for any spelling mistakes I am dyslectic and don't what to spend to long fighting with the spell checker or the conversation moves on before I reply.
    I just assumed you were on an iphone with predictive text.
    DavidL,

    I might start using that as an excuse. Is it sufficiently bad to put people of reading my posts? if so I'll spend longer checking what I wright.
  • Options
    JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082
    edited September 2015
    SO, what policies would you like to see from a centre left party you would vote for?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,306

    SeanT said:

    @PickardJE 3m3 minutes ago
    ComRes: Almost twice as Britons say they're unfavourable towards Jeremy Corbyn as say they're favourable (24% favourable v 42% unfavourable)

    What is extraordinary is just how clear it was this would happen. And yet the Useful Idiots joined the hard left in voting him in. Sucg a lack of judgement on its own - never modn all the rest of the baggage that comes with JC and his mates - disqualifies Labour from being taken seriously as a party of potential government.

    Labour canvasser: Isn't Jezza exciting? An unspin breath of fresh air, so polite and talking about the things that really matter to people like you.

    Average voter: You did what? You put an anti-British, unreconstructed class warrior, apologist for terrorism in charge of your party? Are you all insane?

    Labour canvasser: Red Tory

    Average voter: Piss off.

    Very good Southam, very good.
  • Options
    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    felix said:

    FPT:

    In 5 years time, it is possible - no more than that - that those who have gone from Minimum Wage to Living Wage will have seen a material rise in disposable income - and might be prepared to believe that the Tories are now the party to look out for the working poor...

    It depends on whether the WC do find that the 'living wage' is indeed a 'living wage' and have that disposable income. In any case, the trouble for the Conservatives in Labour's Northern heartlands has always been a brand issue; one created in the 1980s, that has since refused to budge.
    The northern heartlands are a few big cities - way less important than the whole of southern England - and more so given the loss of Scotland, decline in Wales, and in many small towns all over the country. Labour are getting closer and closer to the last redoubts.
    The post was in response to speculation as to whether the Conservatives could take the votes of the WC; not how electorally important the North was.
    It is in the North where it is possible, just possible, that a living wage introduction etc can have the biggest impact. In northern towns £9 an hour means more than in southern towns.

    Already the North West outside of the big cities has seen many marginals swing to the Tories in the last two elections.
    The living wage won't help the working class that much as tax credits have been cut to a similar amount. The main effect will be long term: workers will have a greater sense of ownership over their income, as it's been earned by them, rather than handed out by the state.
  • Options
    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    edited September 2015
    Corbyn u spurs
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,306
    BigRich said:

    DavidL said:

    BigRich said:

    Labour abandons support for new Heathrow runway http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4561784.ece

    What's their alternative?

    I guess this means it'll be hard to get the bill through parliament. If Labour can whip their MPs through on it, then there will be enough Conservative rebels for it to fail. The Lib Dems will be against, although it looks as though the SNP might just vote with the government.
    I believe that the DUP and UUP are also in favour of Heathrow expansion. not to mention a hand full of Labour MPs that have small local airports in there constituency's.

    As Heathrow has got busser and busser, many of the landing slots that used to be for flights coming from small UK airports have been squeezed out by bigger planes coming form further afield. I cant remember the exact fingers but I think that there are only 9 UK airports that still have direct flights to Heathrow, compared to 26 that fly to Skipole in the Netherlands!

    P.S. I apologies for any spelling mistakes I am dyslectic and don't what to spend to long fighting with the spell checker or the conversation moves on before I reply.
    I just assumed you were on an iphone with predictive text.
    DavidL,

    I might start using that as an excuse. Is it sufficiently bad to put people of reading my posts? if so I'll spend longer checking what I wright.
    Not at all. As you say keeping up with the conversation is much more important.
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    felix said:

    felix said:

    FPT:

    In 5 years time, it is possible - no more than that - that those who have gone from Minimum Wage to Living Wage will have seen a material rise in disposable income - and might be prepared to believe that the Tories are now the party to look out for the working poor...

    It depends on whether the WC do find that the 'living wage' is indeed a 'living wage' and have that disposable income. In any case, the trouble for the Conservatives in Labour's Northern heartlands has always been a brand issue; one created in the 1980s, that has since refused to budge.
    The northern heartlands are a few big cities - way less important than the whole of southern England - and more so given the loss of Scotland, decline in Wales, and in many small towns all over the country. Labour are getting closer and closer to the last redoubts.
    The post was in response to speculation as to whether the Conservatives could take the votes of the WC; not how electorally important the North was.
    I see so you agree the northern heartlands don't really matter?
    They do if you're Tory desparate for the working classes to identify as Tories. Personally, I believe all demographics matter in some way, regardless of how electorally important they may or may not be. We want a government that tries to help all, not only a few in this country.
    are you royalty now?
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    JWisemann said:

    To actually increase the Vi for your party after a week of the most brutal media assault since goebbels, what a triumph!

    Come on Sean, there's fun in playing a Corbynista poster and then there's looking a plank.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,046
    Will Hill have Wales 1/500 to beat Uruguay tomorrow.

    Free money right?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Anyone on the Japan - WHU double today ?
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    scotslass said:

    JosiasJessop


    You are talking nonsence. The SNP have been hugely critical of the Davies Report because of the £5bn public subsidy wanted by Heathrow. They are quite right and Heathrow is now in big trouble. If Gatwick play their cards right they could be back in the running.

    https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/heathrow-expansion-more-popular-among-snp-mps-rest-house

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/why-the-scottish-nationalists-are-backing-expansion-for-heathrow-10309050.html

    + many more
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    DavidL said:

    Brilliant result for West Ham. Incredible.

    Puts us foxes down to third place. Though now the only unbeaten team in the Premier League.
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    JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082
    edited September 2015
    JEO said:

    felix said:

    FPT:

    In 5 years time, it is possible - no more than that - that those who have gone from Minimum Wage to Living Wage will have seen a material rise in disposable income - and might be prepared to believe that the Tories are now the party to look out for the working poor...

    It depends on whether the WC do find that the 'living wage' is indeed a 'living wage' and have that disposable income. In any case, the trouble for the Conservatives in Labour's Northern heartlands has always been a brand issue; one created in the 1980s, that has since refused to budge.
    The northern heartlands are a few big cities - way less important than the whole of southern England - and more so given the loss of Scotland, decline in Wales, and in many small towns all over the country. Labour are getting closer and closer to the last redoubts.
    The post was in response to speculation as to whether the Conservatives could take the votes of the WC; not how electorally important the North was.
    It is in the North where it is possible, just possible, that a living wage introduction etc can have the biggest impact. In northern towns £9 an hour means more than in southern towns.

    Already the North West outside of the big cities has seen many marginals swing to the Tories in the last two elections.
    The living wage won't help the working class that much as tax credits have been cut to a similar amount. The main effect will be long term: workers will have a greater sense of ownership over their income, as it's been earned by them, rather than handed out by the state.
    For 'won't much', read 'help at all' - there will be a net loss.
    I think the Tores need to prepare for when their unpopular forthcoming policies actually hit, as the reporting on their imminent arrival is close to zero in this banana republic. Look over there, the bad man didn't sing a song!
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    55% for right-wing parties.
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    JWisemann said:

    SO, what policies would you like to see from a centre left party you would vote for?

    Right now I am more concerned with the people behind the policies.

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    DavidL said:

    Brilliant result for West Ham. Incredible.

    Puts us foxes down to third place. Though now the only unbeaten team in the Premier League.
    Amazing stat...
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,995
    JEO said:

    BigRich said:



    But in the end you can not be paid more than the value you create for your employer, or your employer will go bankrupt.

    Who says the living wage is putting low skilled workers up beyond the value for their employers? It's possible the market wage is 20% below the living wage, but the value to employers is 20% higher than the living wage. We might lose a tiny amount of cockle picking-like work, but it'll be small fry in the scheme of things.
    In the long run, in a globalised world, we will all get what our skills merit us on the world stage. Government intervention, with living wages and the like, cannot make a person generate greater economic output.
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    New Thread New Thread

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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    @PickardJE 3m3 minutes ago
    ComRes: Almost twice as Britons say they're unfavourable towards Jeremy Corbyn as say they're favourable (24% favourable v 42% unfavourable)

    What is extraordinary is just how clear it was this would happen. And yet the Useful Idiots joined the hard left in voting him in. Sucg a lack of judgement on its own - never modn all the rest of the baggage that comes with JC and his mates - disqualifies Labour from being taken seriously as a party of potential government.

    Labour canvasser: Isn't Jezza exciting? An unspin breath of fresh air, so polite and talking about the things that really matter to people like you.

    Average voter: You did what? You put an anti-British, unreconstructed class warrior, apologist for terrorism in charge of your party? Are you all insane?

    Labour canvasser: Red Tory

    Average voter: Piss off.

    There are people - intelligent, insightful people - in my Facebook circle telling each other that a mass movement is taking place, the Tories are terrified, Corbyn is secretly winning over the nation, that this is a kind of revolutionary surge the likes of which makes Japan's defeat of South Africa look boringly predictable.

    They really believe it. Quite bizarre. I don't know what one should do. Try and talk them down? Ignore it til they get better? Call a shrink?
    I have a few friends like that too. They are mostly university people or peaceniks. I think they are going to take a long time to wise up.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,306

    But it's fun!

    DavidL said:

    Are we really going to get excited about a poll? An internet poll? By Comres? Before we have the official report on the shambles that was the election?

    Do we ever learn? Or ask too many rhetorical questions?

    Yeah, I kinda miss the wall to wall polls we had before the election myself. I just think it is a bit silly to think this gives us the definitive answer of whether Corbyn was a good idea or not. I think we all know the answer to this, it is nothing more than common sense.
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    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    JWisemann said:

    JEO said:

    felix said:

    FPT:

    In 5 years time, it is possible - no more than that - that those who have gone from Minimum Wage to Living Wage will have seen a material rise in disposable income - and might be prepared to believe that the Tories are now the party to look out for the working poor...

    It depends on whether the WC do find that the 'living wage' is indeed a 'living wage' and have that disposable income. In any case, the trouble for the Conservatives in Labour's Northern heartlands has always been a brand issue; one created in the 1980s, that has since refused to budge.
    The northern heartlands are a few big cities - way less important than the whole of southern England - and more so given the loss of Scotland, decline in Wales, and in many small towns all over the country. Labour are getting closer and closer to the last redoubts.
    The post was in response to speculation as to whether the Conservatives could take the votes of the WC; not how electorally important the North was.
    It is in the North where it is possible, just possible, that a living wage introduction etc can have the biggest impact. In northern towns £9 an hour means more than in southern towns.

    Already the North West outside of the big cities has seen many marginals swing to the Tories in the last two elections.
    The living wage won't help the working class that much as tax credits have been cut to a similar amount. The main effect will be long term: workers will have a greater sense of ownership over their income, as it's been earned by them, rather than handed out by the state.
    For 'won't much', read 'help at all' - there will be a net loss.
    I think the Tores need to prepare for when their unpopular forthcoming policies actually hit, as the reporting on their imminent arrival is close to zero in this banana republic. Look over there, the bad man didn't sing a song!
    Reductions in income tax will help.

  • Options
    Big news from Spain.

    The latest Catalonian opinion poll gives the Independence parties a clear majority:

    http://ccaa.elpais.com/ccaa/2015/09/19/catalunya/1442675432_555621.html

    The vote takes place next Sunday. And if the Independence parties win they have promised to declare independence in eighteen months, regardless of whether there is an agreement with the Spanish government, which there will not be under any circumstances.

    If you have any kind of financial exposure or investment in Spain you should think very carefully about whether you want to maintain it. The next few months promise to be truly awful on a number of levels.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    DavidL said:

    Brilliant result for West Ham. Incredible.

    Puts us foxes down to third place. Though now the only unbeaten team in the Premier League.
    We have a banner at the Emirates asking 'Is your's gold?' - referring to the unbeaten season, and I was just about to say that it's safe for another year. But not quite safe!
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    JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082

    JWisemann said:

    SO, what policies would you like to see from a centre left party you would vote for?

    Right now I am more concerned with the people behind the policies.

    So Corbyn and his gang are the main problem? I'm really interested as to what your vision of what the centre left should be is so I can see where it overlaps with mine and ponder on how a broad program acceptable to most on the centre left would be possible.

  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,548
    edited September 2015

    MattW said:

    Hmm. It will need a thread, but what *is* the potential for Tories in the North if Osbo makes the Northern Powerhouse / regional devolution work?

    I guess I'd see it as something that would take until at least 2025 or 2030 for infrastructure spending etc to have a significant impact, considering that a majority of people still support Rail Renationalisation dispite the success of the privatised railways.

    I think this is still the best article I have seen on that subject:
    http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2015/09/09/corbyn-cooper-and-burnham-are-being-outflanked-by-osborne-on-devolution/

    It's telling that one of Osborne's first tweets (*) after winning the GE was about the Northern Powerhouse. He really believes in it. And rightly so.

    (*) It was either first or second.
    I don't think Corbynism would win back many seats in the Midlands either, his policies are just not going to sell well outside North London.
    Here's a question: how London-centric is Corbyn's shadow cabinet? Certainly both he and his shad chancellor both represent London constituencies?, and Abbot is also a London MP.

    And how does it compare with the current government?
    I'll do that later if I have half an hour.

    The top 4:

    LOTO - Jeremy Corbyn MP - Islington North
    FCO - Rt Hon Hilary Benn MP - Leeds Central
    Home Office - Rt Hon Andy Burnham MP - Leigh
    CE - John McDonnell MP - Hayes and Harlington

    Question: How does this "attends cabinet" thing work?

    Do they actually have a separate tables for the Big Ministers and Little Ministers like a charabanc and caboose, where the caboose has a rule of silence?

    Compared to the current goverment there are exactly the same number of Scottish MPs.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    felix said:

    @felix I'm not a Corbyn supporter.

    If you still plan to vote Labour you are.
    I don't know whether I'm going to vote Labour. Most likely, I'll spoil my ballot, vote LD, or protest vote for the Greens. Not every whose not a died in the wool Tory is a committed Corbynite.
    dead wool is a new concept
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    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Labour on 30% with Corbyn is unexpectedly good for them. It should stop Corbyn getting deposed too soon.
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    MattW said:

    @felix I'm not a Corbyn supporter.

    Did you pick up this post the other day.

    'Tis an analysis of UKIP prospects in South Wales.

    http://elxn-data.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/ukip-labour-and-welsh-assembly.html

    Very interesting for demographics geeks.
    Thanks for the link, I've just read it - appears to make similar predictions re that UKIP are attracting the socially conservative working classes (but also some young voters and those dependant on welfare) and that they are potentially well-posed in the long-term to be a threat to Labour (not the short-term, which is what some have predicted here). I think one of the biggest dilemmas of modern politics has been how to provide solutions which mitigate against the worst excesses of globalisation. Post-Corbyn, it'll be interesting to see if Labour return to some of the ideas of Jon Cruddas which may provide solutions to that. Given what a Corbyn leadership is likely to bring, I think this is fairly likely and why I stand by what I've previously said on UKIP.
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    JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    @PickardJE 3m3 minutes ago
    ComRes: Almost twice as Britons say they're unfavourable towards Jeremy Corbyn as say they're favourable (24% favourable v 42% unfavourable)

    What is extraordinary is just how clear it was this would happen. And yet the Useful Idiots joined the hard left in voting him in. Sucg a lack of judgement on its own - never modn all the rest of the baggage that comes with JC and his mates - disqualifies Labour from being taken seriously as a party of potential government.

    Labour canvasser: Isn't Jezza exciting? An unspin breath of fresh air, so polite and talking about the things that really matter to people like you.

    Average voter: You did what? You put an anti-British, unreconstructed class warrior, apologist for terrorism in charge of your party? Are you all insane?

    Labour canvasser: Red Tory

    Average voter: Piss off.

    There are people - intelligent, insightful people - in my Facebook circle telling each other that a mass movement is taking place, the Tories are terrified, Corbyn is secretly winning over the nation, that this is a kind of revolutionary surge the likes of which makes Japan's defeat of South Africa look boringly predictable.

    They really believe it. Quite bizarre. I don't know what one should do. Try and talk them down? Ignore it til they get better? Call a shrink?
    I have a few friends like that too. They are mostly university people or peaceniks. I think they are going to take a long time to wise up.
    It's not going to happen overnight, but a rejuvenated Labour Party cleared of the dead wood of the last administration and reborn from the ashes with a massively increased membership could easily be something to fear not so long down the line, when Corbyn has stepped down for fresh new faces and the Tories have had to deal with a recession and the fact that a lot of their policies actually won't be very popular when people eventually find out about them.
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    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    JEO said:

    BigRich said:



    But in the end you can not be paid more than the value you create for your employer, or your employer will go bankrupt.

    Who says the living wage is putting low skilled workers up beyond the value for their employers? It's possible the market wage is 20% below the living wage, but the value to employers is 20% higher than the living wage. We might lose a tiny amount of cockle picking-like work, but it'll be small fry in the scheme of things.
    What you consider 'small fry' to the people involved could be a lively-hood, and first step on the ladder, the beginning of a working life and the dignity of providing for oneself and your family!!!

    For a 17 year, let down by one of many appalling schools, for the prisoner who as come to the end of a long period of incrassation but wants to go strate, for the single mother who don't what to completely leave the work force, but can only work and limited times. For all these people the opportunities will only be there if you let them have the freedom to price them selves in to the market.

    The lore Supply and demand are as much a Lore of Gravity, you can pass a Vote to cancel it in the HoC but you still cant jump out of plane at 20,000 feet without bad things happening.

    Yes there will be times where someone is being paid 20% less than the values they are crating, But in a FREE market, that gives somebody else the opportunity to set up a competitor, doing exactly the same but with a slightly slimmer profit margin. and poach the man on slightly higher wage, maybe only 15%, and then the next only 10% below, and so on until eventually he is being paid 99.99% of the vale he is crating. And yes this will take time, but in that time he is being paid, gaining skills, and contributing to the overall economy. Not siting at home unemployed wasting his life, waiting for the socialist Utopia that never arrives. (for example look at Veneswala)
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    felix said:

    @felix I'm not a Corbyn supporter.

    If you still plan to vote Labour you are.
    I don't know whether I'm going to vote Labour. Most likely, I'll spoil my ballot, vote LD, or protest vote for the Greens. Not every whose not a died in the wool Tory is a committed Corbynite.

    Join the gang. Labour has lost me as a voter. The election of Corbyn is an absolute disaster for the party and it was obviously going to be so.

    In way, something like this was always going to happen once the modernisers could no longer win GEs and had no ideas about the party going forward. The election of Corbyn, besides revealing the delusion of many activists and members right now, also reveals the failure of the modernisers, and the soft left to have any ideas as to what is the purpose of the Labour party today.

    I agree. Labour is not only stupid, it is lazy. And it has let down millions and millions of people.

    That's the worst thing about the election of Corbyn. The Conservatives essentially have no opposition now. Great news for the Conservatives and their activists, bad news for the country.

    @ReggieCide It's typo (obviously) should have said dyed. Also don't get your 'royalty' comment.

    As for the ComRes poll re right-wing parties, it'd be better to get an overall average of all the polls, or wait until the 2016 May Elections. In any case it would probably be unwise to assume that all of those voters have the same outlook to Tories online. Some of those voters will be floating voters, many of whom are moderates with some socially liberal views. Others (most likely those who veer towards UKIP) will be socially conservative, but have concerns on economic inequality, and are likely to be dissatisfied with the way the system is working for them. This is in contrast to the general theories on here about how content the electorate are overall with things.
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited September 2015
    JWisemann said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    @PickardJE 3m3 minutes ago
    ComRes: Almost twice as Britons say they're unfavourable towards Jeremy Corbyn as say they're favourable (24% favourable v 42% unfavourable)

    What is extraordinary is just how clear it was this would happen. And yet the Useful Idiots joined the hard left in voting him in. Sucg a lack of judgement on its own - never modn all the rest of the baggage that comes with JC and his mates - disqualifies Labour from being taken seriously as a party of potential government.

    Labour canvasser: Isn't Jezza exciting? An unspin breath of fresh air, so polite and talking about the things that really matter to people like you.

    Average voter: You did what? You put an anti-British, unreconstructed class warrior, apologist for terrorism in charge of your party? Are you all insane?

    Labour canvasser: Red Tory

    Average voter: Piss off.

    There are people - intelligent, insightful people - in my Facebook circle telling each other that a mass movement is taking place, the Tories are terrified, Corbyn is secretly winning over the nation, that this is a kind of revolutionary surge the likes of which makes Japan's defeat of South Africa look boringly predictable.

    They really believe it. Quite bizarre. I don't know what one should do. Try and talk them down? Ignore it til they get better? Call a shrink?
    I have a few friends like that too. They are mostly university people or peaceniks. I think they are going to take a long time to wise up.
    It's not going to happen overnight, but a rejuvenated Labour Party cleared of the dead wood of the last administration and reborn from the ashes with a massively increased membership could easily be something to fear not so long down the line, when Corbyn has stepped down for fresh new faces and the Tories have had to deal with a recession and the fact that a lot of their policies actually won't be very popular when people eventually find out about them.
    I certainly think down the line many people will find out a very bad reality in regard to Conservative polices. However, in order to capitalise on this Labour need an electable leader, a membership and activist base willingly to face reality (and be 90s style desparate to win a GE) as well as a reduction in the influence of Unite and McCluskey.
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    Ed_BEd_B Posts: 1

    Back on the tennis - have a pair of brothers ever won the Davis Cup versus the world?

    Yes - the Bryan Brothers back in 2007, when the US won the final against Russia.
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited September 2015
    delete.
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    felix said:

    @felix I'm not a Corbyn supporter.

    If you still plan to vote Labour you are.
    Does Tony Blair?
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    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @The_Apocalypse

    'I certainly think down the line many people will find out a very bad reality in regard to Conservative polices'

    Which policies did you have in mind ?
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