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    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Afternoon all. Looks like the Chinese Ambassador's office has been paying attention:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11938854/Jeremy-Corbyn-China-president-Xi-Jinping.html
    The Chinese ambassador has warned Jeremy Corbyn should "know how to behave" when he sits down with the country's President at Buckingham Palace.

    He said: "I think the State Banquet is for Her Majesty – it’s her show. Either Jeremy Corbyn or others are her guests.

    “I think the British people are very gentlemen[ly], very smart. They know how to behave on occasions like this."

    Mr Corbyn's spokesman confirmed: "He will be using the opportunity next week to raise the issue of human rights.

    A member of Islington Labour Party lecturing someone else on human rights? What could possibly go wrong if Xi takes umbrage?
    I really think Xi could not care less what Corbyn thinks, a hapless opposition leader of a middle ranking power trying to tell the president of a superpower what he thinks
    On the other hand if we don't get as much Chinese 'investment' as needed (say, for developing steel manufacturing or keeping the lights on) then we will know who to blame.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    edited October 2015

    HYUFD said:



    Interesting combination of the two discussions is how the tax credit cuts will impact on the affordability criteria that is making getting a mortgage so difficult for so many families.

    Dunno, Mr. Kraken, but I suspect the impact will be very limited and non-existent in the South East. The big, in fact fecking huge, block to getting a mortgage these days seems to be actually getting together the necessary deposit.

    When the price of a small house starts at £250,000, saving up £25,000 from taxed income must be damn near impossible for people in normal jobs. Yet if a couple can get a deposit together the cost of the mortgage will be less than the rent on a similar house.

    In an effort to ensure that the banks don't collapse again it seems that HMG have thrown out the baby with the bathwater. As Mr. Charles pointed out on here the other day, The Northern Rock's 125% mortgage book was profitable with a low rate of default.
    I can't imagine what it must be like in those areas...we moved westwards to find an affordable home but even here in Dorset there seems precious little prospect of my children ever being able to find a home of their own.
    If you have a house of your own then your children should be OK, providing you don't move too often or have too many children. The bank of Mum and Dad will be able to help them out.

    You might also want to consider adopting a reasonably unhealthy lifestyle so that their inheritance is not consumed in nursing home fees. No need to go mad, just a modest regime of alcohol and the occasional cigar should, according to the latest medical advice, do the job. You will be saving the NHS a fortune too.
    You can take out an annuity to cover nursing care in old age. ....
    Can you indeed? I should be very interested to look at the cost of such a policy and the guaranteed benefits. If an insurance company can make such a scheme work then HMG should be able to as well and the fuss about long term care should not exist.

    I am sceptical, however. My neighbour has been in a nursing home for about 18 months and is basically a zombie (his brain has gone but his body, aided by the
    I expect it would be done on an acturial basis and while not cheap it is still likely to be cheaper than exhausting all your savings and assets to pay for care

    Presently the state and councils only step in to fund care when savings are almost exhausted, better would be to encourage an insurance based system
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    SeanT said:

    Back from the canvass session with Corbyn, which (sensibly) was actually primarily a voter registration session, since the December 1 deadline used by the Boundary Commissioners to fix future constituencies is pretty crucial. 45 people turned out for this necessary but soul-destroying job - the area is Entryphone Paradise, so you spend hours ringing one bell after another and getting replies from maybe one in 4. I found two unregistered voters and picked up some useful data, including three people who wanted to join. Meagre pickings, but has to be done.

    Picking up points on the thread:
    HYUFD - Switzerland MAINLY has cantonal taxation. In the areas like Basel with big employers, my impression is that the tax rates are slightly higher than the UK, but they use a sliding scale rather than fixed increments so the marginal rate varied from year to year.

    JEO - obviously we can't (and shouldn't) brain-scan migrants for improper thoughts, and if someone supports loony groups and does nothing about it, we needn't really care. But I was thinking more in positive terms that a Yazidi, say, would be better able to give evidence of being in danger (and hence should get higher priority) than someone who had no quarrel with ISIS and merely wanted a better life elsewhere.

    I do incidentally favour the EU funding well-run local refugee camps near Syria (and I think the Turks do have legitimate cause to grumble that we don't do more), and where someone isn't in danger and doesn't have skills that we want, I wouldn't object to returning migrants in Europe to such camps. But where they're in danger, we should agree throughout the EU to share out the job of helping them in, and Britain should take its share.

    I've been nasty to you ever since you came out for Corbyn (and I still think you're position is ludicrous, bordering scandalous), however, in the spirit of pb fellowship, kudos to you for doing the boring door knocking stuff that keeps politics alive.

    It must indeed be dull. But if people like you didn't get out there, the voters would be even more disengaged. Bravo.

    Indeed, true believers are those who canvassed for both Blair and Corbyn, just as for the Tories it is those who campaigned for Cameron and IDS, the rest are fairweather friends or fanatics
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    TudorRose said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Afternoon all. Looks like the Chinese Ambassador's office has been paying attention:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11938854/Jeremy-Corbyn-China-president-Xi-Jinping.html
    The Chinese ambassador has warned Jeremy Corbyn should "know how to behave" when he sits down with the country's President at Buckingham Palace.

    He said: "I think the State Banquet is for Her Majesty – it’s her show. Either Jeremy Corbyn or others are her guests.

    “I think the British people are very gentlemen[ly], very smart. They know how to behave on occasions like this."

    Mr Corbyn's spokesman confirmed: "He will be using the opportunity next week to raise the issue of human rights.

    A member of Islington Labour Party lecturing someone else on human rights? What could possibly go wrong if Xi takes umbrage?
    I really think Xi could not care less what Corbyn thinks, a hapless opposition leader of a middle ranking power trying to tell the president of a superpower what he thinks
    On the other hand if we don't get as much Chinese 'investment' as needed (say, for developing steel manufacturing or keeping the lights on) then we will know who to blame.
    I can assure you China is not going to decide its UK investment policy on what Corbyn thinks (especially when he is 13% behind in the polls)
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Afternoon all. Looks like the Chinese Ambassador's office has been paying attention:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11938854/Jeremy-Corbyn-China-president-Xi-Jinping.html
    The Chinese ambassador has warned Jeremy Corbyn should "know how to behave" when he sits down with the country's President at Buckingham Palace.

    He said: "I think the State Banquet is for Her Majesty – it’s her show. Either Jeremy Corbyn or others are her guests.

    “I think the British people are very gentlemen[ly], very smart. They know how to behave on occasions like this."

    Mr Corbyn's spokesman confirmed: "He will be using the opportunity next week to raise the issue of human rights.

    A member of Islington Labour Party lecturing someone else on human rights? What could possibly go wrong if Xi takes umbrage?
    I really think Xi could not care less what Corbyn thinks, a hapless opposition leader of a middle ranking power trying to tell the president of a superpower what he thinks
    You might be surprised HYUFD. The Chinese can be quite touchy if their honour is impugned, particularly if there is any truth to the allegation.

    I was merely thinking that if this story were flung at Corbyn he would end up looking rather silly. Being lectured on human rights by the leader of the PRC would be, in a field of stiff competition, his most disastrously embarrassing moment to date.
    Indeed, Corbyn should look closer to home first
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943

    Back from the canvass session with Corbyn, which (sensibly) was actually primarily a voter registration session, since the December 1 deadline used by the Boundary Commissioners to fix future constituencies is pretty crucial. 45 people turned out for this necessary but soul-destroying job - the area is Entryphone Paradise, so you spend hours ringing one bell after another and getting replies from maybe one in 4. I found two unregistered voters and picked up some useful data, including three people who wanted to join. Meagre pickings, but has to be done.

    Picking up points on the thread:
    HYUFD - Switzerland MAINLY has cantonal taxation. In the areas like Basel with big employers, my impression is that the tax rates are slightly higher than the UK, but they use a sliding scale rather than fixed increments so the marginal rate varied from year to year.

    JEO - obviously we can't (and shouldn't) brain-scan migrants for improper thoughts, and if someone supports loony groups and does nothing about it, we needn't really care. But I was thinking more in positive terms that a Yazidi, say, would be better able to give evidence of being in danger (and hence should get higher priority) than someone who had no quarrel with ISIS and merely wanted a better life elsewhere.

    I do incidentally favour the EU funding well-run local refugee camps near Syria (and I think the Turks do have legitimate cause to grumble that we don't do more), and where someone isn't in danger and doesn't have skills that we want, I wouldn't object to returning migrants in Europe to such camps. But where they're in danger, we should agree throughout the EU to share out the job of helping them in, and Britain should take its share.

    Switzerland may have mainly canton tax, but even if you include the cantons Switzerland still has an income tax rate of 48%, which is below the combined federal and state level of 50% in Canada and 55.9% in the US let alone the UK level once you include NI and council tax
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates
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    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ireland then go and score a try, so there is a little hope for the Shamrocks yet

    Recall this is the Argentina side which very nearly beat the All Blacks. All the southern teams are benefiting from playing each other constantly - in particular, playing the All Blacks. They have to raise their general game to compete.

    But Ireland might still win this. The crowd could see them home.
    Indeed, in the world rankings first is New Zealand, second Australia, third Ireland, fourth Wales, fifth South Africa, sixth Argentina. So New Zealand and Australia ought to be the finalists but following these quarter finals S Africa and Argentina should take third and fourth (although as you say there is some hope for Ireland still)
    Argentina beat SA away from home in the Rugby Championship this year. They were excellent.

    They play lovely rugby. Cordero, the right winger, is one of the most exciting talents in the world. He still plays his club rugby in Argentina. It won't be long before a big European club comes on for him.

  • Options
    flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    Interesting combination of the two discussions is how the tax credit cuts will impact on the affordability criteria that is making getting a mortgage so difficult for so many families.

    Dunno, Mr. Kraken, but I suspect the impact will be very limited and non-existent in the South East. The big, in fact fecking huge, block to getting a mortgage these days seems to be actually getting together the necessary deposit.

    I can't imagine what it must be like in those areas...we moved westwards to find an affordable home but even here in Dorset there seems precious little prospect of my children ever being able to find a home of their own.
    If you have a house of your own then your children should be OK, providing you don't move too often or have too many children. The bank of Mum and Dad will be able to help them out.

    You might also want to consider adopting a reasonably unhealthy lifestyle so that their inheritance is not consumed in nursing home fees. No need to go mad, just a modest regime of alcohol and the occasional cigar should, according to the latest medical advice, do the job. You will be saving the NHS a fortune too.
    You can take out an annuity to cover nursing care in old age. ....
    Can you indeed? I should be very interested to look at the cost of such a policy and the guaranteed benefits. If an insurance company can make such a scheme work then HMG should be able to as well and the fuss about long term care should not exist.

    I am sceptical, however. My neighbour has been in a nursing home for about 18 months and is basically a zombie (his brain has gone but his body, aided by the
    I expect it would be done on an acturial basis and while not cheap it is still likely to be cheaper than exhausting all your savings and assets to pay for care

    Presently the state and councils only step in to fund care when savings are almost exhausted, better would be to encourage an insurance based system
    Well pardon me but any annuity is based on actuarial methods. But this would only come into play when needed. A sum up front, a potentially significant one, then nothing until someone (the insurer?) agrees you need future never ending nursing care and nursing home care. The only way it would be affordable would be if most people never needed it.
    But ... but ... some way to encourage us all to make some provision for our own care should not be sniffed at.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,848
    Great start to the second half by Ireland!
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Off topic - Ace Patrol by Sid Meier on tablet is a great little game.

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    As I mentioned last week, there appears to be an absence of Ministers on the Sunday political shows, particularly Andrew Neil, Sunday Politics/Daily Politics. A fact, that he keeps mentioning himself. I'm sure his BBC boss has noticed as well!

    He totally humiliated Stewart Hosie earlier in the week. This is fair enough, but sometimes battering your interviewee with a barrage of statistics and being facetious, is counterproductive.

    If the broadcasters haven't realised already that there needs to be a fundamental rethink on how they conduct these interviews, then it's time they did. It's a very unsatisfactory situation for all concerned.

    On another note: If Labour are going to reverse the Tax Credit changes, then they need to be asked "how are they going to pay for them."
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    notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    edited October 2015
    In reply to SeanT:

    Nick has always been a heavy door knocker, assuming he is honest (and no reason to think otherwise).
    It is when canvassing the same voters on the same street over a period of time that you pick up a sense as to what is happening far more than an opinion poll.

    That is why I was genuinely puzzled in the run up to the end of the election campaign. The constituency I was campaigning in was a straight Con Lab fight with a con majority only *slightly* greater than that of Broxtowe. Yet, our constituency (and I was informed that in the NW region this was replicated in many of the similar marginals), there was absolutely no swing against the Conservatives. UKIP Con deserters had fallen back, when prompted for previous voting support UKIP was now more often labour than Con.

    At every session we were seeing no slippage to Labour from Cons, but we were seeing repeatedly (small numbers of ) people moving to the Cons from Labour and libdem.

    I pointed out this on here and was a little bit ridiculed about fantasy canvassing.

    Yet NP was talking about how big his majority was going to be, i think he even (correct me if im wrong) claimed he was expecting to win by about 2-3,000, and that it was so bad and hopeless for the cons that Ann Soubry had deserted the constituency.

    This completely threw me, and made me wonder if the pattern i was seeing was regional only.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091



    On another note: If Labour are going to reverse the Tax Credit changes, then they need to be asked "how are they going to pay for them."

    And they can reply "the same way they're paid for now". There quite self-evidently is the money for it if we're managing to pay for it right now.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    antifrank said:

    felix said:

    antifrank said:

    antifrank said:

    I know this is a revolutionary concept for some posters but perhaps they could consider whether the bishops sincerely believe what they say instead of launching into ad hominems?

    And I have yet to hear any of the NIMBYs give a coherent explanation of what they think should be done with the migrants that are already in Europe that is actually practicable.

    THanks Antifrank. Do you go to church?
    Personally? No.

    I seem to recall stuff about good Samaritans helping destitutes on the road. So I doubt the founder of Christianity would want us to walk on by on the other side of the road. It seems reasonable for the bishops to follow his principles.
    How many will you personally house, employ and otherwise support to ensure they are a minimal burden on the rest of society?
    I pay my taxes. In case of national emergency, I would accept billeting. Since we are in nothing like a national emergency, it's a question asked by arseholes.
    Someone didn't get enough sleep last night .........
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,321
    SeanT said:



    I've been nasty to you ever since you came out for Corbyn (and I still think you're position is ludicrous, bordering scandalous), however, in the spirit of pb fellowship, kudos to you for doing the boring door knocking stuff that keeps politics alive.

    It must indeed be dull. But if people like you didn't get out there, the voters would be even more disengaged. Bravo.

    Thanks! In the same spirit of pb amity, I'll refrain in return from urging you to review how "your" is spelt :-). (Might be useful if you ever think of taking up writing, though?)

    We did meet one chap who said he'd not seen anyone from Labour for 30 years. The councillor next to me was muttering sulphorously, and as we walked away she exploded, "I canvassed him in May and he said the same bloody thing then!" Perhaps he has dementia, said another helper pacifically...
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    Ref bottled that.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,114


    We did meet one chap who said he'd not seen anyone from Labour for 30 years. The councillor next to me was muttering sulphorously, and as we walked away she exploded, "I canvassed him in May and he said the same bloody thing then!" Perhaps he has dementia, said another helper pacifically...

    So I do hope you are not planning to register him, as dementia would of course disqualify him from voting?

    I will, in the spirit of PB amity, not comment on John "Ronald" McDonnell's economic policies at this juncture...
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    antifrank said:

    JEO said:

    antifrank said:

    JEO said:

    antifrank said:

    Mr. Antifrank, if someone's house is on fire, helping to put it out is reasonable. If their house is on fire and they pour petrol on the flames, then ask for help, telling them to sod off is reasonable, especially when we've fitted our house with fire alarms and sprinklers and advised them to do the same.

    Mr. Jessop, well, quite. The journeys are dangerous, and put people at risk of death, modern day slavery and enrich people traffickers. Encouraging more is encouraging more suffering.

    Again, huge numbers of migrants are already in Europe. Many are not in Germany. Something needs to be done for them and the countries they are in. Telling every EU country, including many that are as unhappy about Germany's approach as you are, to sod off is not exactly either reasonable or calculated to win friends and influence people.
    Our approach to the crisis should be about reducing deaths and helping as many refugees as possibly, especially the most marginalised ones, not winning friends. Some people seem more concerned about looking moral than being moral.
    Again, there are huge numbers of migrants already in Europe. What do you think should be done about them?
    They should be returned to the camps on the Syrian borders, where we process any asylum applications there. The camps should be funded properly and we should ask our EU neighbours to pay their share.
    The Turks have no legal obligation to accept refugees from Syria. So that idea doesn't work.
    Bit of a logic failure there if you think about it.
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    notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    SeanT said:



    I've been nasty to you ever since you came out for Corbyn (and I still think you're position is ludicrous, bordering scandalous), however, in the spirit of pb fellowship, kudos to you for doing the boring door knocking stuff that keeps politics alive.

    It must indeed be dull. But if people like you didn't get out there, the voters would be even more disengaged. Bravo.

    Thanks! In the same spirit of pb amity, I'll refrain in return from urging you to review how "your" is spelt :-). (Might be useful if you ever think of taking up writing, though?)

    We did meet one chap who said he'd not seen anyone from Labour for 30 years. The councillor next to me was muttering sulphorously, and as we walked away she exploded, "I canvassed him in May and he said the same bloody thing then!" Perhaps he has dementia, said another helper pacifically...
    LOL.
    Yes. There is a ward in my district which has changed hands between the different parties by less than 100 in 13 of the that last fifteen years (we have elections every year). This ward is the most heavily leafleted and canvassed ward in the entire district, which is in one of the most marginal constituencies in the region. Both sides over the years have worked it non stop.

    The local newspaper went and vox popped some local residents. One of them said they dont hear anything from anyone. She said all the politicians had forgotten her area.
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    notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Danny565 said:



    On another note: If Labour are going to reverse the Tax Credit changes, then they need to be asked "how are they going to pay for them."

    And they can reply "the same way they're paid for now". There quite self-evidently is the money for it if we're managing to pay for it right now.
    The medium term spending plans are based on decisions already made. You cant rewind back to 2015 from 2020. If you are going to say that you will reintroduce them in 2020 that is new money you need to find that isnt budgeted for.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    Danny565 said:



    On another note: If Labour are going to reverse the Tax Credit changes, then they need to be asked "how are they going to pay for them."

    And they can reply "the same way they're paid for now". There quite self-evidently is the money for it if we're managing to pay for it right now.
    You don't expect any changes in fiscal policy between now and 2020 then? In any case, your answer doesn't address the question of the deficit.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,848
    There's not very many blue striped shirts in the Cardiff crowd. Hopefully Ireland's 16th man in the last 20 minutes.
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    Danny565 said:



    On another note: If Labour are going to reverse the Tax Credit changes, then they need to be asked "how are they going to pay for them."

    And they can reply "the same way they're paid for now". There quite self-evidently is the money for it if we're managing to pay for it right now.
    We managed to create a growing economy over the past 5 years and keep unemployment down without slashing tax credits...so why does that have to change. Osborne has created an arbitary target for sorting out the deficit...there's no need for these cuts
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,848
    edited October 2015

    Ref bottled that.

    Didn't want to send him off. Would have been yellow if he'd not already been in the bin.
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    flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    To 'Notme' at 2.18
    I am afraid that I have long since refused to take NP remotely seriously. Never mind the experiences you quote in respect of reporting the 'ground war', the willingness to suck up to Corbyn speaks volumes.
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    flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    edited October 2015

    Danny565 said:



    On another note: If Labour are going to reverse the Tax Credit changes, then they need to be asked "how are they going to pay for them."

    And they can reply "the same way they're paid for now". There quite self-evidently is the money for it if we're managing to pay for it right now.
    We managed to create a growing economy over the past 5 years and keep unemployment down without slashing tax credits...so why does that have to change. Osborne has created an arbitary target for sorting out the deficit...there's no need for these cuts
    There have been cuts to tax at the lower end and also we are seeing increases in the 'living wage'.
    Osborne has in fact delayed the period for eliminating the deficit and the deficit in question is the structural deficit which by definition cannot be eliminated by growing the economy.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,131

    Danny565 said:



    On another note: If Labour are going to reverse the Tax Credit changes, then they need to be asked "how are they going to pay for them."

    And they can reply "the same way they're paid for now". There quite self-evidently is the money for it if we're managing to pay for it right now.
    We managed to create a growing economy over the past 5 years and keep unemployment down without slashing tax credits...so why does that have to change. Osborne has created an arbitary target for sorting out the deficit...there's no need for these cuts
    The number of families receiving tax credits in the last Parliament fell by over 1.5m. Most of these were people who were earning well over the average wage but were still getting their incomes topped up by those earning less but without children etc.

    We still have a deficit of £80bn. It is largely structural and growth is having minimal impact on it as is record employment. We need to address it. This involves tax increases and cuts.

    We need to get public spending in line with what the government can hope to take in taxes without damaging the economy. We are nowhere near yet. Putting more of the cost of employing people on those that employ them is and has to be a part of the solution.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936
    notme said:

    In reply to SeanT:

    Nick has always been a heavy door knocker, assuming he is honest (and no reason to think otherwise).
    It is when canvassing the same voters on the same street over a period of time that you pick up a sense as to what is happening far more than an opinion poll.

    That is why I was genuinely puzzled in the run up to the end of the election campaign. The constituency I was campaigning in was a straight Con Lab fight with a con majority only *slightly* greater than that of Broxtowe. Yet, our constituency (and I was informed that in the NW region this was replicated in many of the similar marginals), there was absolutely no swing against the Conservatives. UKIP Con deserters had fallen back, when prompted for previous voting support UKIP was now more often labour than Con.

    At every session we were seeing no slippage to Labour from Cons, but we were seeing repeatedly (small numbers of ) people moving to the Cons from Labour and libdem.

    I pointed out this on here and was a little bit ridiculed about fantasy canvassing.

    Yet NP was talking about how big his majority was going to be, i think he even (correct me if im wrong) claimed he was expecting to win by about 2-3,000, and that it was so bad and hopeless for the cons that Ann Soubry had deserted the constituency.

    This completely threw me, and made me wonder if the pattern i was seeing was regional only.

    Saw exactly the same in the South LD-Tory marginal and South safe Tory seat I was canvassing. One or two parents of at-home, voting age children even took the time to close the front door behind them, chat to me at length, inquire how things were going for 'us', reassure me that they'd be voting blue and encouraging all their family and colleagues to do the same. Not something I'd ever witnessed in '05 and '10 - making the pre-election day opinion poll figures especially bewildering.

    Incidentally, I'm intrigued as to how others canvass. Always done it on my own or with a pal; although I feel the latter can be a bit intimidating, especially to the elderly. Had one or two rather stern 'board runners' this year - didn't seem any more efficient than my method has proved over the years.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    Fenster said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ireland then go and score a try, so there is a little hope for the Shamrocks yet

    Recall this is the Argentina side which very nearly beat the All Blacks. All the southern teams are benefiting from playing each other constantly - in particular, playing the All Blacks. They have to raise their general game to compete.

    But Ireland might still win this. The crowd could see them home.
    Indeed, in the world rankings first is New Zealand, second Australia, third Ireland, fourth Wales, fifth South Africa, sixth Argentina. So New Zealand and Australia ought to be the finalists but following these quarter finals S Africa and Argentina should take third and fourth (although as you say there is some hope for Ireland still)
    Argentina beat SA away from home in the Rugby Championship this year. They were excellent.

    They play lovely rugby. Cordero, the right winger, is one of the most exciting talents in the world. He still plays his club rugby in Argentina. It won't be long before a big European club comes on for him.

    Indeed and looks like Argentina may have scored again, they are certainly by far the best of the non rugby nations. Rugby may not yet be as strong as soccer in Argentina yet but this performance will certainly help boost it further
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936

    Danny565 said:



    On another note: If Labour are going to reverse the Tax Credit changes, then they need to be asked "how are they going to pay for them."

    And they can reply "the same way they're paid for now". There quite self-evidently is the money for it if we're managing to pay for it right now.
    We managed to create a growing economy over the past 5 years and keep unemployment down without slashing tax credits...so why does that have to change. Osborne has created an arbitary target for sorting out the deficit...there's no need for these cuts
    Honest question: why the obsession with tax credits?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    Interesting combination of the two discussions is how the tax credit cuts will impact on the affordability criteria that is making getting a mortgage so difficult for so many families.

    Dunno, Mr. Kraken, but I suspect the impact will be very limited and non-existent in the South East. The big, in fact fecking huge, block to getting a mortgage these days seems to be actually getting together the necessary deposit.

    I can't imagine what it must be like in those areas...we moved westwards to find an affordable home but even here in Dorset there seems precious little prospect of my children ever being able to find a home of their own.
    If you have a house of your own then your children should be OK, providing you don't move too often or have too many children. The bank of Mum and Dad will be able to help them out.
    You can take out an annuity to cover nursing care in old age. ....
    Can you indeed? I should be very interested to look at the cost of such a policy and the guaranteed benefits. If an insurance company can make such a scheme work then HMG should be able to as well and the fuss about long term care should not exist.

    I am sceptical, however. My neighbour has been in a nursing home for about 18 months and is basically a zombie (his brain has gone but his body, aided by the
    I expect it would be done on an acturial basis and while not cheap it is still likely to be cheaper than exhausting all your savings and assets to pay for care

    Presently the state and councils only step in to fund care when savings are almost exhausted, better would be to encourage an insurance based system
    Well pardon me but any annuity is based on actuarial methods. But this would only come into play when needed. A sum up front, a potentially significant one, then nothing until someone (the insurer?) agrees you need future never ending nursing care and nursing home care. The only way it would be affordable would be if most people never needed it.
    But ... but ... some way to encourage us all to make some provision for our own care should not be sniffed at.
    Indeed and I doubt it would ever be universal but encouraging people to have an insurance policy to cover social care is far better than seeing them exhaust all their savings
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    The tax credits problem is not only structural, in the sense of a structural deficit, is also structural in that it has created a structure where the government is propping up the wages of a far larger group of people than it should or can.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    Pumas score again, game over
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    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited October 2015
    Bye bye Ireland.
    The Six Nations Championship a second division affair?
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "But ... but ... some way to encourage us all to make some provision for our own [long term elderly] care should not be sniffed at."

    How about slashing the taxes on booze and fags plus measures to encourage the consumption of both? That, in the medium term, should solve the problem.

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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,848
    edited October 2015
    Game over for Ireland now :( The Northern hemisphere's hopes rest with the Scots at Twickenham this afternoon.

    Pub quiz fact - Argentina are the only team entering the WC who had the whole squad born in their own country.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    Sandpit said:

    Ref bottled that.

    Didn't want to send him off. Would have been yellow if he'd not already been in the bin.
    True. And looks like being the key moment now.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited October 2015
    Let's face the facts guys,when you watch the six nations,your watching a second rate tournament.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    Sandpit said:

    Game over for Ireland now :( The Northern hemisphere's hopes rest with the Scots at Twickenham this afternoon.

    They'll get hammered.
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    Let's face the facts guys,when you watch the six nations,your watching a second rate tournament.

    Agreed. But why?
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,987

    "But ... but ... some way to encourage us all to make some provision for our own [long term elderly] care should not be sniffed at."

    How about slashing the taxes on booze and fags plus measures to encourage the consumption of both? That, in the medium term, should solve the problem.

    How about making hard drugs legal and subsidised for all over 70s? Enjoy the last few years.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,321
    SeanT said:



    I am equally puzzled.

    It would be helpful if Nick would explain. Was he deluded, or lying (surely not), or was he fooled by shy Tories, like, perhaps, the pollsters?

    We've discussed this here before. There were three reasons to think that we were doing well (not least the Ashcroft polls) and that the Tories were focusing elsewhere up to a month or so before the election. They then refocused, and at the same time I started to feel concerned by some of the patterns we were starting to see. By the final few days we were definitely seeing an adverse swing. I didn't think it sensible to report that here, as it would potentially have encouraged further Tory efforts. I've apologised to anyone who was misled in their betting by my earlier optimism, but I'm not sure that one can expect candidates to admit to problems just before a vote.

    I don't make stuff up, but I've always reported selectively, and anyway only when I feel like it, often just for amusement like the angry voter reported downthread.

    Of more general interest is the difference between the impressions a month out from the election - notme and Mortimer report seeing early encouraging indications, whereas I'm convinced that we lost it in the final week. A bit of both, I suppose.

    I like solo canvassing (you decide the speed) but I think the optimum is a group of 4-5, with one efficient person on the board - fewer and you spend too much time fiddling with papers, more and you spend too much time sorting out who's going where. The 45 this morning were far more than they'd planned for and too much time was spent just deciding who was in which team, etc.

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    NEW THREAD NEW THREAD

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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    edited October 2015

    Let's face the facts guys,when you watch the six nations,your watching a second rate tournament.

    At the moment, just over ten years ago England won the world cup in Australia, 4 years ago France lost the World Cup final to the All Blacks by 1 point
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    flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    What is the limit of characters per post? Some comments seem to contain mases of characters. I find I have to keep snipping when replying to a long post. ??

    Ireland may have expected many things, but they did not expect to conceed 40 points.
    Rugby is not suited to a world cup tempo, but even so Ireland have not shown enough energy. Unlike what SeanT says these are not great games, we are seeing average teams totally outclassed.
    Like all semi finals the semis should be good. As will Australia v NZ in the final. !!!
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    SeanT said:

    Ireland will win this now. Crowd will carry them.

    errrrrrr
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    HYUFD said:

    Let's face the facts guys,when you watch the six nations,your watching a second rate tournament.

    At the moment, just over ten years ago England won the world cup in Australia, 4 years ago France lost the World Cup final to the All Blacks by 1 point
    And in 2015 ,just how far back have the six nations countries have fallen back.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    isam said:

    Put the illegal immigrants in prison and make them work on the chain gang until it is safe for then to go back home

    Is that official UKIP policy? **innocent face**
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    flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    Let's face the facts guys,when you watch the six nations,your watching a second rate tournament.

    Agreed. But why?
    British clubs importing talent and not developing their own???
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943

    HYUFD said:

    Let's face the facts guys,when you watch the six nations,your watching a second rate tournament.

    At the moment, just over ten years ago England won the world cup in Australia, 4 years ago France lost the World Cup final to the All Blacks by 1 point
    And in 2015 ,just how far back have the six nations countries have fallen back.
    Significantly, they will need to do a lot of rebuilding before Japan in 2019
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Barnesian said:

    "But ... but ... some way to encourage us all to make some provision for our own [long term elderly] care should not be sniffed at."

    How about slashing the taxes on booze and fags plus measures to encourage the consumption of both? That, in the medium term, should solve the problem.

    How about making hard drugs legal and subsidised for all over 70s? Enjoy the last few years.
    On pure practical grounds that would be an awful idea. Trying to get members ofthe Hurstpierpoint and District Gentlemen's Temperance Association back on the bus after a good luncheon outing is like herding cats now. It would be impossible if they were out of their heads on LSD as well. Also imagine what it would be like for younger people in the pubs where we stop for a comfort break on the way home.

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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    Let's face the facts guys,when you watch the six nations,your watching a second rate tournament.

    Agreed. But why?
    British clubs importing talent and not developing their own???
    Not using their own talent based outside the UK doesn't help.
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