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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Doing “Best PM” comparisons between Corbyn & Dave is like

SystemSystem Posts: 5,841
edited October 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Doing “Best PM” comparisons between Corbyn & Dave is like asking US voters to choose between Obama and Trump

We all know that David Cameron is not planning to remain as prime minister after the next general election. So the choice will between Corbyn, unless he’s replaced in the meantime, and AN Other.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 65,672
    edited October 2015
    Indeed, it is seldom the favourite
  • Things have to change for George. He cannot go into a conservative leadership contest with him still just level pegging with the Labour leader.
    Will Tory voters be bothered? Parties that switch leaders in government don't usually optimize for charisma, and rightly or wrongly I doubt Tory members will be frightened of losing to Corbyn.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 3,030
    Scott_P said:
    @steve_hawkes: Confirmed: Zac Goldsmith, David Davis and Stephen McPartland signing Frank Field's call for a Commons motion forcing rethink on tax credits

    Zac emailed my wife this morning.

    Dear .....
    Thanks for your email.
    The philosophy behind the Tax credit move – moving from low wage, high tax to high wage, low tax - is the right one, but of course the details matter. The Chancellor has said that losses will be absorbed by higher wages, and we will have to make sure that’s the case.
    I know Boris Johnson is looking at how the cuts will affect Londoners and how they will be offset by the introduction of the Chancellor’s new "national living wage", and I very much support that process. As the Government reforms welfare and the tax system, people on the lowest incomes need protection and although we do not have reliable figures, it is important that the wage increases go hand in hand with any withdrawal of tax credit.
    I have made the point to the Chancellor and will continue to press.
    Best wishes,
    Zac Goldsmith
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,848
    I agree with Zac
    Dear .....
    Thanks for your email.
    The philosophy behind the Tax credit move – moving from low wage, high tax to high wage, low tax - is the right one, but of course the details matter. The Chancellor has said that losses will be absorbed by higher wages, and we will have to make sure that’s the case.
    I know Boris Johnson is looking at how the cuts will affect Londoners and how they will be offset by the introduction of the Chancellor’s new "national living wage", and I very much support that process. As the Government reforms welfare and the tax system, people on the lowest incomes need protection and although we do not have reliable figures, it is important that the wage increases go hand in hand with any withdrawal of tax credit.
    I have made the point to the Chancellor and will continue to press.
    Best wishes,
    Zac Goldsmith
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 44,257

    Indeed, it is seldom the favourite

    Except Gordon Brown; Tim Farron & Nicola Sturgeon.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 65,672
    edited October 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    Indeed, it is seldom the favourite

    Except Gordon Brown; Tim Farron & Nicola Sturgeon.
    I meant for the Tories and especially this far out.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Mr. Owls, agrees that moving to a low tax regime is a good idea. Astonishing.

    And with that thought I am off up to the allotment to sort out a rat that has infested Herself's shed.

    Play nicely, all.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,848

    Mr. Owls, agrees that moving to a low tax regime is a good idea. Astonishing.

    And with that thought I am off up to the allotment to sort out a rat that has infested Herself's shed.

    Play nicely, all.

    Higher Wages lower benefits right way to go IMO
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 7,563
    Mike's thesis has some merit, but voters will still be asked to choose between Prime Minister xxxxxx and Corbyn. Incumbency is a not insignificant part of Cameron's appeal.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,439

    Mr. Owls, agrees that moving to a low tax regime is a good idea. Astonishing.

    And with that thought I am off up to the allotment to sort out a rat that has infested Herself's shed.

    Play nicely, all.

    Higher Wages lower benefits right way to go IMO
    https://www.conservatives.com/join
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    I wonder how the PB Tories are enjoying their Queen and PM tugging his forelock to the Chinese., Surely even they must perceive the realisation that the UK is a meaningless lapdog in the world today.

    Given the UK's history it gives other countries a good source of comedy. It seems the Chinese media are revelling in the obsequience shown by the UK to their Chinese guests.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 44,257

    Pulpstar said:

    Indeed, it is seldom the favourite

    Except Gordon Brown; Tim Farron & Nicola Sturgeon.
    I meant for the Tories and especially this far out.
    He'll go odds on at some point - that's my strategy at any rate ;)
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Teflon Dave?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,791
    David Cameron and Jeremy Corbyn are both more likely to contest the next election than either Barack Obama or Donald Trump.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    George Osborne is the man personally tasked with delivering the bills, so its not surprising maybe that he's not popular right now.

    That said, this is an excellent graph and a little perplexing for tories. Europe and the Dave succession will undoubtedly make the party looking divided. On these issues, it is.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Surely even they must perceive the realisation that the UK is a meaningless lapdog in the world today.''

    And there's me thinking our membership of the EU kept us at the top table...
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 7,563

    Pulpstar said:

    Indeed, it is seldom the favourite

    Except Gordon Brown; Tim Farron & Nicola Sturgeon.
    I meant for the Tories and especially this far out.
    This is different - this is about becoming PM, not just Tory leader. Who was favourite in the summer of 1990? If it was Heseltine that that would have been an obvious lay on betfair (please excuse the epic aftertiming).
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Dair said:

    I wonder how the PB Tories are enjoying their Queen and PM tugging his forelock to the Chinese., Surely even they must perceive the realisation that the UK is a meaningless lapdog in the world today.

    Given the UK's history it gives other countries a good source of comedy. It seems the Chinese media are revelling in the obsequience shown by the UK to their Chinese guests.

    How would you rate it on a scale of 1 to 10, the highest score being the equivalent of Salmond fawning over his old chum, Donald Trump, before their spectacular falling out.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 4,133
    edited October 2015
    Osbourne does not strike me as a leader and it would appear that many others share that opinion. From the poll, just about anyone does better than Osbourne.

    He has tied himself to Cameron and when Cameron departs, Osbourne would be wise to do the same.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 2,825
    edited October 2015
    taffys said:

    George Osborne is the man personally tasked with delivering the bills, so its not surprising maybe that he's not popular right now.

    That said, this is an excellent graph and a little perplexing for tories. Europe and the Dave succession will undoubtedly make the party looking divided. On these issues, it is.

    If you don't have different views (division) in a party, how can you develop new ideas?

    Discussion and argument are healthy, and likely to improve the policies on offer.

    I am all for divided parties. It is unchanging dogma that is harmful.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,791
    It shouldn't be overlooked that the public has a settled view of George Osborne. While they have formed a view of Jeremy Corbyn, it is on the basis of less information. So Jeremy Corbyn's relative standing is likely to be more volatile than George Osborne's.

    Normally politicians become less popular as they become more known. Since the public have already formed views of Jeremy Corbyn, this rule may not hold good on this occasion, though it's worth noting that his approval ratings have dropped sharply between the last and current Opinium polls.

    The Conservatives (with the exception of George Osborne) will be happy with these numbers.
  • Not entirely because there's a certain level of gravitas and attention that comes with being party leader, even more with Prime Minister. So asking people to compare the Leader of the Opposition with a cabinet minister is not a direct comparison either, even if one of those cabinet ministers will be the future party leader.

    In one part people will associate the cabinet ministers with their cabinet roles as much as who they are. So Osborne is inevitably linked to the Treasury, May to the Home Office etc - in a way that won't necessarily be the case by the election.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 65,672
    edited October 2015

    Pulpstar said:

    Indeed, it is seldom the favourite

    Except Gordon Brown; Tim Farron & Nicola Sturgeon.
    I meant for the Tories and especially this far out.
    This is different - this is about becoming PM, not just Tory leader. Who was favourite in the summer of 1990? If it was Heseltine that that would have been an obvious lay on betfair (please excuse the epic aftertiming).
    On the 1st of January 1990 the favourite was Michael Heseltine.

    On the 1st of January 1997 the favourite to be next Con Leader was Michael Portillo

    On the 1st of January 2001 the favourite to be next Con Leader was Michael Portillo and Ken Clarke

    On the 1st of January 2003 the the favourite to be next Con Leader was David Davis

    On the 1st of January 2005 the favourite to be next Con Leader was David Davis

    (I has been doing some research on this for a future thread)
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    edited October 2015
    @watford30


    'How would you rate it on a scale of 1 to 10, the highest score being the equivalent of Salmond fawning over his old chum, Donald Trump, before their spectacular falling out.'


    That was hilarious watching Salmond licking Trump's boots over some mickey mouse golf course.
  • JICIPM :lol:
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 7,563

    Pulpstar said:

    Indeed, it is seldom the favourite

    Except Gordon Brown; Tim Farron & Nicola Sturgeon.
    I meant for the Tories and especially this far out.
    This is different - this is about becoming PM, not just Tory leader. Who was favourite in the summer of 1990? If it was Heseltine that that would have been an obvious lay on betfair (please excuse the epic aftertiming).
    On the 1st of January 1990 the favourite was Michael Heseltine.

    On the 1st of January 1997 the favourite to be next Con Leader was Michael Portillo

    On the 1st of January 2001 the favourite to be next Con Leader was Michael Portillo and Ken Clarke

    On the 1st of January 2003 the the favourite to be next Con Leader was David Davis

    On the 1st of January 2005 the favourite to be next Con Leader was David Davis

    (I has been doing some research on this for a future thread)
    God, bookies were clueless back then ;-)
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    GOWNBPM :D
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 990
    edited October 2015
    Could Cameron change his mind and serve a third term?

    He is clearly more popular than his party and it seems pretty clear it was The David Cameron Party that won a majority in May. And he's far more popular than his party than the other contenders are, even Boris.

    Either that or Osborne needs a bloody big run in to the next GE to win voters over - or be defenestrated by Boris if it doesn't work out. Bear in mind Labour will possibly be led by someone vaguely electable by 2020....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 44,257
    Off topic: Luke is the villain in the new Star Wars films.

    Calling it now.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Off topic: Luke is the villain in the new Star Wars films.

    Calling it now.

    Hey, Pulpstar... May the Farce be with you!
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,791
    The appeal of Star Wars has completely passed me by. I saw the original aged 9 and was underwhelmed ("half an hour too long" was my view then). And I saw The Phantom Menace, which was unbelievably poor for a movie that had had so much money thrown at it.

    I'd never make a good film producer.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 44,257
    Looks like a great Tour de France for my long term Chris Froome bet - 2* ITTs should see him ahead of Nairo.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 65,672
    edited October 2015

    Pulpstar said:

    Indeed, it is seldom the favourite

    Except Gordon Brown; Tim Farron & Nicola Sturgeon.
    I meant for the Tories and especially this far out.
    This is different - this is about becoming PM, not just Tory leader. Who was favourite in the summer of 1990? If it was Heseltine that that would have been an obvious lay on betfair (please excuse the epic aftertiming).
    On the 1st of January 1990 the favourite was Michael Heseltine.

    On the 1st of January 1997 the favourite to be next Con Leader was Michael Portillo

    On the 1st of January 2001 the favourite to be next Con Leader was Michael Portillo and Ken Clarke

    On the 1st of January 2003 the the favourite to be next Con Leader was David Davis

    On the 1st of January 2005 the favourite to be next Con Leader was David Davis

    (I has been doing some research on this for a future thread)
    God, bookies were clueless back then ;-)
    Then? :lol:
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 7,366
    Dair said:

    I wonder how the PB Tories are enjoying their Queen and PM tugging his forelock to the Chinese., Surely even they must perceive the realisation that the UK is a meaningless lapdog in the world today.

    Given the UK's history it gives other countries a good source of comedy. It seems the Chinese media are revelling in the obsequience shown by the UK to their Chinese guests.

    As a former Tory, I'm hugely comfortable with it.

    Are you suggesting we shouldn't make overtures toward the Chinese? Not something that Salmond (sensibly in my view) would agree with.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,988
    Dair said:

    I wonder how the PB Tories are enjoying their Queen and PM tugging his forelock to the Chinese., Surely even they must perceive the realisation that the UK is a meaningless lapdog in the world today.

    Given the UK's history it gives other countries a good source of comedy. It seems the Chinese media are revelling in the obsequience shown by the UK to their Chinese guests.

    There will be lots of kowtowing today for sure
  • Pulpstar said:

    Off topic: Luke is the villain in the new Star Wars films.

    Calling it now.

    Already booked my tickets for the midnight showing.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''And I saw The Phantom Menace, which was unbelievably poor for a movie that had had so much money thrown at it.''

    The movies after the original trilogy are garbage.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    watford30 said:

    Dair said:

    I wonder how the PB Tories are enjoying their Queen and PM tugging his forelock to the Chinese., Surely even they must perceive the realisation that the UK is a meaningless lapdog in the world today.

    Given the UK's history it gives other countries a good source of comedy. It seems the Chinese media are revelling in the obsequience shown by the UK to their Chinese guests.

    How would you rate it on a scale of 1 to 10, the highest score being the equivalent of Salmond fawning over his old chum, Donald Trump, before their spectacular falling out.
    It's not a comparison. Scotland is a small country of relatively little political significance. I understand this. I expect our premier to be a salesman for Scotland.

    The attitude of the Loyalists is far from this, you believe that the UK Is still important and still matters despite all evidence to the contrary. I can understand your pain, seeing the pictures on the news must really stick in your craw.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    JEO said:

    Pulpstar said:

    JEO said:



    Which is why they need you to book weeks out.

    How on earth can you know if you're going to be sick in 2-7 weeks time !
    Depends what you're suffering from. I have a broken toe that never healed properly. I probably need a pin in it to refix it, but I can't be bothered going through the hassle of getting both a GP appointment and a consultant appointment. It would take months.
    18 weeks maximum GP to operation.

    Unless the target is not met.
    Given my work is often international, I don't ever know whether I'll be in the country in 18 weeks time. The system is a joke really.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,988
    watford30 said:

    Dair said:

    I wonder how the PB Tories are enjoying their Queen and PM tugging his forelock to the Chinese., Surely even they must perceive the realisation that the UK is a meaningless lapdog in the world today.

    Given the UK's history it gives other countries a good source of comedy. It seems the Chinese media are revelling in the obsequience shown by the UK to their Chinese guests.

    How would you rate it on a scale of 1 to 10, the highest score being the equivalent of Salmond fawning over his old chum, Donald Trump, before their spectacular falling out.
    Good old 3watts always great for a laugh, how can anyone be so stupid. Never thought I would see the day when someone could make Scottp's posts almost interesting.
  • taffys said:

    ''And I saw The Phantom Menace, which was unbelievably poor for a movie that had had so much money thrown at it.''

    The movies after the original trilogy are garbage.

    I found the first one and a half movies of the second trilogy to be crap. The second half of Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith to be good. The end of Revenge of the Sith was great and somewhat redeemed the prequel trilogy.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    There will be lots of kowtowing today for sure.

    True. For me, this is as much about American prestige as British, maybe more.

    The former is dropping like a stone.
  • isamisam Posts: 24,352
    edited October 2015
    antifrank said:

    The appeal of Star Wars has completely passed me by. I saw the original aged 9 and was underwhelmed ("half an hour too long" was my view then). And I saw The Phantom Menace, which was unbelievably poor for a movie that had had so much money thrown at it.

    I'd never make a good film producer.

    Wholeheartedly agree. Watched the original when I was about 22 in the late night cinema after the pub and I think I fell asleep... Haven't seen any of the others

    First film I saw at the cinema was Superman in 1979 and I walked out after 5 minutes saying it was boring... Never seen it or any of the sequels either

    Nor any Star Trek in any form

    Sci-Fi Shmi-Fi

  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    edited October 2015
    antifrank said:

    The appeal of Star Wars has completely passed me by. I saw the original aged 9 and was underwhelmed ("half an hour too long" was my view then). And I saw The Phantom Menace, which was unbelievably poor for a movie that had had so much money thrown at it.

    I'd never make a good film producer.

    Everyone knows the prequels were unbelievably poor, but not enjoying the originals? Well, I'm afraid to say it has diminished how much weight I now give your opinions on any topic. ;)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 65,672
    edited October 2015
    As someone who spent far too much money going to see the Phantom Menance (it was released in America two months before it was in the UK) please do not bring back bad memories for me.

    I've known hookers who have swallowed a Dyson that have sucked less than that movie.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,791

    Dair said:

    I wonder how the PB Tories are enjoying their Queen and PM tugging his forelock to the Chinese., Surely even they must perceive the realisation that the UK is a meaningless lapdog in the world today.

    Given the UK's history it gives other countries a good source of comedy. It seems the Chinese media are revelling in the obsequience shown by the UK to their Chinese guests.

    As a former Tory, I'm hugely comfortable with it.

    Are you suggesting we shouldn't make overtures toward the Chinese? Not something that Salmond (sensibly in my view) would agree with.
    Indeed, using google to search for "Alex Salmond" and Chinese, the top result is this:

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/alex-salmond-on-china-mission-to-kick-start-recovery-1-3170823#axzz3p6yG2KOy

    The word "kowtowing" features in the first sentence.

    It seems that the Scottish nationalists are so obsessed in their hatred of the UK that they're prepared to make themselves look idiotic in their inconsistency.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Indeed, it is seldom the favourite

    Except Gordon Brown; Tim Farron & Nicola Sturgeon.
    I meant for the Tories and especially this far out.
    This is different - this is about becoming PM, not just Tory leader. Who was favourite in the summer of 1990? If it was Heseltine that that would have been an obvious lay on betfair (please excuse the epic aftertiming).
    On the 1st of January 1990 the favourite was Michael Heseltine.

    On the 1st of January 1997 the favourite to be next Con Leader was Michael Portillo

    On the 1st of January 2001 the favourite to be next Con Leader was Michael Portillo and Ken Clarke

    On the 1st of January 2003 the the favourite to be next Con Leader was David Davis

    On the 1st of January 2005 the favourite to be next Con Leader was David Davis

    (I has been doing some research on this for a future thread)
    1997 onwards were about electing a Leader of the Opposition not a PM though which is different. I doubt Cameron would have won in 2005 had we been in government.
  • isamisam Posts: 24,352

    Pulpstar said:

    Indeed, it is seldom the favourite

    Except Gordon Brown; Tim Farron & Nicola Sturgeon.
    I meant for the Tories and especially this far out.
    This is different - this is about becoming PM, not just Tory leader. Who was favourite in the summer of 1990? If it was Heseltine that that would have been an obvious lay on betfair (please excuse the epic aftertiming).
    On the 1st of January 1990 the favourite was Michael Heseltine.

    On the 1st of January 1997 the favourite to be next Con Leader was Michael Portillo

    On the 1st of January 2001 the favourite to be next Con Leader was Michael Portillo and Ken Clarke

    On the 1st of January 2003 the the favourite to be next Con Leader was David Davis

    On the 1st of January 2005 the favourite to be next Con Leader was David Davis

    (I has been doing some research on this for a future thread)
    1997 onwards were about electing a Leader of the Opposition not a PM though which is different. I doubt Cameron would have won in 2005 had we been in government.
    Yes I wondered what the relevance of the last 3 (4 really) was
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,439
    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic: Luke is the villain in the new Star Wars films.

    Calling it now.

    Luke: I am your Führer
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 1,948
    isam said:

    antifrank said:

    The appeal of Star Wars has completely passed me by. I saw the original aged 9 and was underwhelmed ("half an hour too long" was my view then). And I saw The Phantom Menace, which was unbelievably poor for a movie that had had so much money thrown at it.

    I'd never make a good film producer.

    Wholeheartedly agree. Watched the original when I was about 22 in the late night cinema after the pub and I think I fell asleep... Haven't seen any of the others

    First film I saw at the cinema was Superman in 1979 and I walked out after 5 minutes saying it was boring... Never seen it or any of the sequels either

    Nor any Star Trek in any form

    Sci-Fi Shmi-Fi

    Agree with you on all those. But there are some magnificent films that have been labelled Sci-Fi: Bladerunner and Brazil come to mind straightaway.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Sajid Javid: What an incompetent performance. Basically saying, "I can't do anything".
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Pulpstar said:

    Looks like a great Tour de France for my long term Chris Froome bet - 2* ITTs should see him ahead of Nairo.

    The second one is a Climbing Time Trial, which will be much narrower (I suspect) but yes overall it looks Froome's to lose.

    Annoyingly the profiles aren't up on the official site yet.
  • surbiton said:

    Sajid Javid: What an incompetent performance. Basically saying, "I can't do anything".

    What should he do?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,311
    Lay Osborne.
  • surbiton said:

    Sajid Javid: What an incompetent performance. Basically saying, "I can't do anything".

    If he can't do anything then how is being honest incompetent?
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 7,563
    surbiton said:

    Sajid Javid: What an incompetent performance. Basically saying, "I can't do anything".

    Well, neither could McDonnell, since he's utterly opposed to "corporate welfare".
  • Lay Osborne.

    No thanks. Now please pass the mindbleach.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Should we not be spending a little bit more time digesting the election results in Canada ?
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    taffys said:

    ''And I saw The Phantom Menace, which was unbelievably poor for a movie that had had so much money thrown at it.''

    The movies after the original trilogy are garbage.

    I found the first one and a half movies of the second trilogy to be crap. The second half of Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith to be good. The end of Revenge of the Sith was great and somewhat redeemed the prequel trilogy.
    The casting was the real problem particularly with Christiansen.

    However given what JJ Abraams did with the Star Trek reboot, I think everyone should have strong expectations for Episode 7.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 8,922
    Climate change levy - nothing to do with steel cutbacks?

    https://www.gov.uk/green-taxes-and-reliefs/climate-change-levy
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 26,343
    edited October 2015

    As someone who spent far too much money going to see the Phantom Menance (it was released in America two months before it was in the UK) please do not bring back bad memories for me.

    I've known hookers who have swallowed a Dyson that have sucked less than that movie.

    My little brother saw TPM a massive NINE times in the cinema, but he was still a teen at the time - so more impressionable.

    I first saw the original Star Wars in 1978 when I was only two - my mum said I was so scared she had to remove me from the cinema :lol:
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,311
    isam said:

    antifrank said:

    The appeal of Star Wars has completely passed me by. I saw the original aged 9 and was underwhelmed ("half an hour too long" was my view then). And I saw The Phantom Menace, which was unbelievably poor for a movie that had had so much money thrown at it.

    I'd never make a good film producer.

    Wholeheartedly agree. Watched the original when I was about 22 in the late night cinema after the pub and I think I fell asleep... Haven't seen any of the others

    First film I saw at the cinema was Superman in 1979 and I walked out after 5 minutes saying it was boring... Never seen it or any of the sequels either

    Nor any Star Trek in any form

    Sci-Fi Shmi-Fi

    I don't get Star Wars.

    On the other hand, Indiana Jones and Back to the Future are works of genius.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    This is an interesting list from VoteLeave that shows the various pushes Cameron has made for renegotiation in the last few years. They reckon a bunch of them are out of the question, but it is why I think Cameron will surprise people with a few big ones that were thought to be "not on the agenda":

    https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/voteleave/pages/73/attachments/original/1445175116/David_Cameronfailingrenegotiation.pdf?1445175116
  • JEO said:

    antifrank said:

    The appeal of Star Wars has completely passed me by. I saw the original aged 9 and was underwhelmed ("half an hour too long" was my view then). And I saw The Phantom Menace, which was unbelievably poor for a movie that had had so much money thrown at it.

    I'd never make a good film producer.

    Everyone knows the prequels were unbelievably poor, but not enjoying the originals? Well, I'm afraid to say it has diminished how much weight I now give your opinions on any topic. ;)
    Empire Strikes Back (1980) is the best Star Wars film EVAH!
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 1,948
    On topic. These figures provide a powerful argument for Cameron staying on. Not beyond the realms of possibility in my view - if he wins the referendum.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,245

    As someone who spent far too much money going to see the Phantom Menance (it was released in America two months before it was in the UK) please do not bring back bad memories for me.

    I've known hookers who have swallowed a Dyson that have sucked less than that movie.

    You HAVE led an interesting life!
  • Pulpstar said:

    Indeed, it is seldom the favourite

    Except Gordon Brown; Tim Farron & Nicola Sturgeon.
    I meant for the Tories and especially this far out.
    This is different - this is about becoming PM, not just Tory leader. Who was favourite in the summer of 1990? If it was Heseltine that that would have been an obvious lay on betfair (please excuse the epic aftertiming).
    On the 1st of January 1990 the favourite was Michael Heseltine.

    On the 1st of January 1997 the favourite to be next Con Leader was Michael Portillo

    On the 1st of January 2001 the favourite to be next Con Leader was Michael Portillo and Ken Clarke

    On the 1st of January 2003 the the favourite to be next Con Leader was David Davis

    On the 1st of January 2005 the favourite to be next Con Leader was David Davis

    (I has been doing some research on this for a future thread)
    1997 onwards were about electing a Leader of the Opposition not a PM though which is different. I doubt Cameron would have won in 2005 had we been in government.
    Well adding onto the research

    Prior to 1990 (even when the Tories were in government) the seldom rarely won.

    1st of January 1975 the favourite to be Tory leader was Willie Whitelaw

    1st of January 1965 the favourite to be the next Tory leader was Maudling

    1st of January 1963 the favourite to be the next Tory leader was Rab Butler (when the Tories were in government) that said that was the final contribution of the magic circle.

    Put it this way, the Tories have only properly elected a leader whilst still in office ONCE in their history and the favourite on the 1st of Jan didn't win.

    Fits a pattern
  • isamisam Posts: 24,352

    isam said:

    antifrank said:

    The appeal of Star Wars has completely passed me by. I saw the original aged 9 and was underwhelmed ("half an hour too long" was my view then). And I saw The Phantom Menace, which was unbelievably poor for a movie that had had so much money thrown at it.

    I'd never make a good film producer.

    Wholeheartedly agree. Watched the original when I was about 22 in the late night cinema after the pub and I think I fell asleep... Haven't seen any of the others

    First film I saw at the cinema was Superman in 1979 and I walked out after 5 minutes saying it was boring... Never seen it or any of the sequels either

    Nor any Star Trek in any form

    Sci-Fi Shmi-Fi

    I don't get Star Wars.

    On the other hand, Indiana Jones and Back to the Future are works of genius.
    To be fair I'm not much of a film watcher really... For someone growing up in the 80s there are an astounding number of 'classics' I've not seen.. Too hyperactive, I just liked playing sport

    Star Wars (first 3)
    Indiana Jones
    Back to the future
    Ghostbusters
    Beverley hills cop
    Superman 1 2 and 3

    And many, many more!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 26,343
    edited October 2015

    isam said:

    antifrank said:

    The appeal of Star Wars has completely passed me by. I saw the original aged 9 and was underwhelmed ("half an hour too long" was my view then). And I saw The Phantom Menace, which was unbelievably poor for a movie that had had so much money thrown at it.

    I'd never make a good film producer.

    Wholeheartedly agree. Watched the original when I was about 22 in the late night cinema after the pub and I think I fell asleep... Haven't seen any of the others

    First film I saw at the cinema was Superman in 1979 and I walked out after 5 minutes saying it was boring... Never seen it or any of the sequels either

    Nor any Star Trek in any form

    Sci-Fi Shmi-Fi

    I don't get Star Wars.

    On the other hand, Indiana Jones and Back to the Future are works of genius.
    "Tories? Where we're going, we don't need Tories!" :lol:
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,102
    Strange of course how the Labour donor Lord Paul is escaping all criticism for shutting down some of his UK steel works. I can only imagine the abuse he would get if he was a Tory peer.

    I guess Labour would make an exception for him in their war against corporate welfarism.
    surbiton said:

    Sajid Javid: What an incompetent performance. Basically saying, "I can't do anything".

  • 1st of January 1975 the favourite to be Tory leader was Willie Whitelaw

    "Every Prime Minister needs a Willie!" :lol:
  • SandraMSandraM Posts: 206
    I saw 15 minutes of "Star Wars" and found so dull I've had no desire to see any of the other sequels or prequel.

    On a positive note, my parents once had as a near neighbour Stuart Freeborn, who created the design of Yoda and Chewbacca and he was the most delightful person you could meet.
  • SandraM said:

    I saw 15 minutes of "Star Wars" and found so dull I've had no desire to see any of the other sequels or prequel.

    On a positive note, my parents once had as a near neighbour Stuart Freeborn, who created the design of Yoda and Chewbacca and he was the most delightful person you could meet.

    The first 15 minutes? You mean the space battle scene where Princess Leia gets captured? Dull?????
  • I'm taking a risk, I'm spending Trafalgar Day (and Agincourt Day) in France.
  • SandraMSandraM Posts: 206

    SandraM said:

    I saw 15 minutes of "Star Wars" and found so dull I've had no desire to see any of the other sequels or prequel.

    On a positive note, my parents once had as a near neighbour Stuart Freeborn, who created the design of Yoda and Chewbacca and he was the most delightful person you could meet.

    The first 15 minutes? You mean the space battle scene where Princess Leia gets captured? Dull?????
    You mean that is one of the most exciting bits??
  • SandraM said:

    SandraM said:

    I saw 15 minutes of "Star Wars" and found so dull I've had no desire to see any of the other sequels or prequel.

    On a positive note, my parents once had as a near neighbour Stuart Freeborn, who created the design of Yoda and Chewbacca and he was the most delightful person you could meet.

    The first 15 minutes? You mean the space battle scene where Princess Leia gets captured? Dull?????
    You mean that is one of the most exciting bits??
    We get to meet the Princess, Darth Vader and the droids, C-3PO and R2D2, for the first time!
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    SandraM said:

    I saw 15 minutes of "Star Wars" and found so dull I've had no desire to see any of the other sequels or prequel.

    On a positive note, my parents once had as a near neighbour Stuart Freeborn, who created the design of Yoda and Chewbacca and he was the most delightful person you could meet.

    The first 15 minutes? You mean the space battle scene where Princess Leia gets captured? Dull?????
    I'm trying to think of any 15 minute period in Episode 4 where it can be described as dull, I've seen it enough times to know the whole film scene by scene (and probably most of the dialogue).

    There is definitely not a period of 15 minutes were it is dull.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 19,922
    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic: Luke is the villain in the new Star Wars films.

    Calling it now.

    I think you might be right. It would explain why he hasn't featured much in the trailers.

    It might also make sense: he was scarcely a kid when he was thrown into the wars, during which his father took his hand, he nearly died several times, and he discovered his dad was a main player in an evil religion. He was also immensely talented but imperfectly trained in another, polar opposite, religion.

    And then you find out the sister you never knew you had is a princess (and thus you are a prince). But whilst she grew up in palaces and meeting the great and good, you grew up on a desert shithole.

    It'd screw anyone up.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    SandraM said:

    SandraM said:

    I saw 15 minutes of "Star Wars" and found so dull I've had no desire to see any of the other sequels or prequel.

    On a positive note, my parents once had as a near neighbour Stuart Freeborn, who created the design of Yoda and Chewbacca and he was the most delightful person you could meet.

    The first 15 minutes? You mean the space battle scene where Princess Leia gets captured? Dull?????
    You mean that is one of the most exciting bits??
    Nothing like that had ever been seen on a cinema screen before, nothing even *close*.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 7,563

    On topic. These figures provide a powerful argument for Cameron staying on. Not beyond the realms of possibility in my view - if he wins the referendum.

    But Cameron wants to go precisely for this reason - he doesn't want to wait until he is unpopular.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,102
    Dair said:

    SandraM said:

    I saw 15 minutes of "Star Wars" and found so dull I've had no desire to see any of the other sequels or prequel.

    On a positive note, my parents once had as a near neighbour Stuart Freeborn, who created the design of Yoda and Chewbacca and he was the most delightful person you could meet.

    The first 15 minutes? You mean the space battle scene where Princess Leia gets captured? Dull?????
    I'm trying to think of any 15 minute period in Episode 4 where it can be described as dull, I've seen it enough times to know the whole film scene by scene (and probably most of the dialogue).

    There is definitely not a period of 15 minutes were it is dull.
    Its amazing how Lucas was such a good director for 4, 5 and 6 but sucked so badly for 1, 2 and 3.

  • Pulpstar said:

    Off topic: Luke is the villain in the new Star Wars films.

    Calling it now.

    I think you might be right. It would explain why he hasn't featured much in the trailers.

    It might also make sense: he was scarcely a kid when he was thrown into the wars, during which his father took his hand, he nearly died several times, and he discovered his dad was a main player in an evil religion. He was also immensely talented but imperfectly trained in another, polar opposite, religion.

    And then you find out the sister you never knew you had is a princess (and thus you are a prince). But whilst she grew up in palaces and meeting the great and good, you grew up on a desert shithole.

    It'd screw anyone up.
    Don't forget, his mum also died in childbirth!
  • JonathanD said:

    Dair said:

    SandraM said:

    I saw 15 minutes of "Star Wars" and found so dull I've had no desire to see any of the other sequels or prequel.

    On a positive note, my parents once had as a near neighbour Stuart Freeborn, who created the design of Yoda and Chewbacca and he was the most delightful person you could meet.

    The first 15 minutes? You mean the space battle scene where Princess Leia gets captured? Dull?????
    I'm trying to think of any 15 minute period in Episode 4 where it can be described as dull, I've seen it enough times to know the whole film scene by scene (and probably most of the dialogue).

    There is definitely not a period of 15 minutes were it is dull.
    Its amazing how Lucas was such a good director for 4, 5 and 6 but sucked so badly for 1, 2 and 3.

    Lucas only directed 4.

    5 and 6 were directed by others
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 1,991
    Good to see Jeremy Corbyn making a very clear statement to everyone he does not support the mandatory selection of MPs.Red Tory Lord Marsh took time off from his £300 a day sinecure to claim wrongly that he did.In fact,the Labour List article indicates a very collegiate and inclusive style of leadership.The Labour Chief Whip has been inspired by his leadership and is seeking to confront the Tory gerrymandering of the HoC.Constituency Boundary changes are the threat to Labour MPs,not JeremyCorbyn.
    It's called forming,storming and performing with everyone on the raft.Jeremy is unifying the Labour party.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    The first 15 minutes? You mean the space battle scene where Princess Leia gets captured? Dull?????

    The gargantuan sexual tension between Han and Leia saves the whole franchise. I mean guys, get a room. Carrie Fisher's performances in the original trilogy are quite extraordinary.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 19,922
    isam said:

    isam said:

    antifrank said:

    The appeal of Star Wars has completely passed me by. I saw the original aged 9 and was underwhelmed ("half an hour too long" was my view then). And I saw The Phantom Menace, which was unbelievably poor for a movie that had had so much money thrown at it.

    I'd never make a good film producer.

    Wholeheartedly agree. Watched the original when I was about 22 in the late night cinema after the pub and I think I fell asleep... Haven't seen any of the others

    First film I saw at the cinema was Superman in 1979 and I walked out after 5 minutes saying it was boring... Never seen it or any of the sequels either

    Nor any Star Trek in any form

    Sci-Fi Shmi-Fi

    I don't get Star Wars.

    On the other hand, Indiana Jones and Back to the Future are works of genius.
    To be fair I'm not much of a film watcher really... For someone growing up in the 80s there are an astounding number of 'classics' I've not seen.. Too hyperactive, I just liked playing sport

    Star Wars (first 3)
    Indiana Jones
    Back to the future
    Ghostbusters
    Beverley hills cop
    Superman 1 2 and 3

    And many, many more!
    I've never seen a complete full-length cell-drawn animated Disney. Not Dumbo, 101 Dalmations, Aladdin, Snow White, Lady and the Tramp, Aladdin, etc. I've seen many of the electronic ones, though.

    As a kid they just left me cold.

    The exceptions are the Studio Ghibli ones, which Mrs J is a massive fan. Besides, Ghibli isn't really a Disney studio in spirit.

    (BTW, if you want to see a great film, watch 'Spirited Away')

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirited_Away
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    JonathanD said:

    Dair said:

    SandraM said:

    I saw 15 minutes of "Star Wars" and found so dull I've had no desire to see any of the other sequels or prequel.

    On a positive note, my parents once had as a near neighbour Stuart Freeborn, who created the design of Yoda and Chewbacca and he was the most delightful person you could meet.

    The first 15 minutes? You mean the space battle scene where Princess Leia gets captured? Dull?????
    I'm trying to think of any 15 minute period in Episode 4 where it can be described as dull, I've seen it enough times to know the whole film scene by scene (and probably most of the dialogue).

    There is definitely not a period of 15 minutes were it is dull.
    Its amazing how Lucas was such a good director for 4, 5 and 6 but sucked so badly for 1, 2 and 3.

    He didn't direct 5 or 6.

    5 was Directed by Irvin Kerschner and 6 by Richard Marquand.
  • taffys said:

    The first 15 minutes? You mean the space battle scene where Princess Leia gets captured? Dull?????

    The gargantuan sexual tension between Han and Leia saves the whole franchise. I mean guys, get a room. Carrie Fisher's performances in the original trilogy are quite extraordinary.

    "I love you!"

    "I know!"

    First in The Empire Strikes back, but repeated in Return of the Jedi.

    Contrast with Anakin and Padme in the prequels!
  • Guys,

    What if it turned out that Luke was actually Darth Vader's son....

    :lol: :lol: :lol:
  • JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,037
    FPT

    JWisemann said:

    Any of the Tory ultra-loyalists here care to try and defend the lunacy of the Psychoactive Substances Bill?

    You mean the bill which introduces provisions almost identical to those Labour advocated?

    http://www.headoflegal.com/2015/06/08/psychoactive-substances-labours-february-2015-amendment-to-the-serious-crime-bill/
    Ah, whataboutery. Of course. I didnt agree with Labour's suggestions either, but they arent in any position to put them into practice (I like to think once the party ahs been cleared out of its Blairites it will be a lot less authoritarian.)
    I repeat, do you think this is an effective, workable, justified piece of legislation?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Trouble is with the start of the original movie, Vader is questioning his own daughter.

    1/10 he'd have felt that in the force if he'd searched his feelings.

    Epic Jedi skills fail. What was Vader thinking?
  • taffys said:

    The first 15 minutes? You mean the space battle scene where Princess Leia gets captured? Dull?????

    The gargantuan sexual tension between Han and Leia saves the whole franchise. I mean guys, get a room. Carrie Fisher's performances in the original trilogy are quite extraordinary.

    "I love you!"

    "I know!"

    First in The Empire Strikes back, but repeated in Return of the Jedi.

    Contrast with Anakin and Padme in the prequels!
    That was a great piece of adlib by Ford and not part of the original script.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    JonathanD said:

    Dair said:

    SandraM said:

    I saw 15 minutes of "Star Wars" and found so dull I've had no desire to see any of the other sequels or prequel.

    On a positive note, my parents once had as a near neighbour Stuart Freeborn, who created the design of Yoda and Chewbacca and he was the most delightful person you could meet.

    The first 15 minutes? You mean the space battle scene where Princess Leia gets captured? Dull?????
    I'm trying to think of any 15 minute period in Episode 4 where it can be described as dull, I've seen it enough times to know the whole film scene by scene (and probably most of the dialogue).

    There is definitely not a period of 15 minutes were it is dull.
    Its amazing how Lucas was such a good director for 4, 5 and 6 but sucked so badly for 1, 2 and 3.

    He had full creative control for 1,2,3 while there was a lot of input from others for 4,5,6. Sometimes people need to be able to be told 'no'.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,439

    Guys,

    What if it turned out that Luke was actually Darth Vader's son....

    :lol: :lol: :lol:


    A ludicrous proposition.

  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    taffys said:

    Trouble is with the start of the original movie, Vader is questioning his own daughter.

    1/10 he'd have felt that in the force if he'd searched his feelings.

    Epic Jedi skills fail. What was Vader thinking?

    Vader was not particularly fond of either of his twins at the start of Episode 4, he still blamed them for the death of Padme. He was quite willing to torture his own daughter. He would have quite happily killed Luke in Episode 4, 5 or most of 6, only instruction from the Emporer stayed his hand.

    He didn't change till the very end when Luke showed him mercy.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,102
    Dair said:

    JonathanD said:

    Dair said:

    SandraM said:

    I saw 15 minutes of "Star Wars" and found so dull I've had no desire to see any of the other sequels or prequel.

    On a positive note, my parents once had as a near neighbour Stuart Freeborn, who created the design of Yoda and Chewbacca and he was the most delightful person you could meet.

    The first 15 minutes? You mean the space battle scene where Princess Leia gets captured? Dull?????
    I'm trying to think of any 15 minute period in Episode 4 where it can be described as dull, I've seen it enough times to know the whole film scene by scene (and probably most of the dialogue).

    There is definitely not a period of 15 minutes were it is dull.
    Its amazing how Lucas was such a good director for 4, 5 and 6 but sucked so badly for 1, 2 and 3.

    He didn't direct 5 or 6.

    5 was Directed by Irvin Kerschner and 6 by Richard Marquand.

    Ha, I didn't know that. 4 alone was still better than 1, 2, and 3.

  • isamisam Posts: 24,352

    isam said:

    isam said:

    antifrank said:

    The appeal of Star Wars has completely passed me by. I saw the original aged 9 and was underwhelmed ("half an hour too long" was my view then). And I saw The Phantom Menace, which was unbelievably poor for a movie that had had so much money thrown at it.

    I'd never make a good film producer.

    Wholeheartedly agree. Watched the original when I was about 22 in the late night cinema after the pub and I think I fell asleep... Haven't seen any of the others

    First film I saw at the cinema was Superman in 1979 and I walked out after 5 minutes saying it was boring... Never seen it or any of the sequels either

    Nor any Star Trek in any form

    Sci-Fi Shmi-Fi

    I don't get Star Wars.

    On the other hand, Indiana Jones and Back to the Future are works of genius.
    To be fair I'm not much of a film watcher really... For someone growing up in the 80s there are an astounding number of 'classics' I've not seen.. Too hyperactive, I just liked playing sport

    Star Wars (first 3)
    Indiana Jones
    Back to the future
    Ghostbusters
    Beverley hills cop
    Superman 1 2 and 3

    And many, many more!
    I've never seen a complete full-length cell-drawn animated Disney. Not Dumbo, 101 Dalmations, Aladdin, Snow White, Lady and the Tramp, Aladdin, etc. I've seen many of the electronic ones, though.

    As a kid they just left me cold.

    The exceptions are the Studio Ghibli ones, which Mrs J is a massive fan. Besides, Ghibli isn't really a Disney studio in spirit.

    (BTW, if you want to see a great film, watch 'Spirited Away')

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirited_Away
    Oh I did love a cartoon... I think the film that i found most affecting as a child was an animated version of the lion the witch and the wardrobe... Aslan on the slab, horrific..

    The first two films I saw were the champ and watership down and I cried my eyes out at both!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,108
    edited October 2015
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Not yet seen the trailer, though I imagine I'll get around to it.

    Not much of a cinema-goer, and the less than excellent prequels are not a good precedent.

    I've given away practically all of them now, but I had a fair number (probably 20-30) of expanded universe books. The X-Wing series [which I may've kept] was especially good. It's a shame all that's been tossed aside. I can see why, but that sort of thing is what kept Star Wars ticking over during the prolonged gap from original films to the prequels.

    Also, it's a travesty that Jar Jar Binks is canon, and Grand Admiral Thrawn is not.

    Edited extra bit: Mr. Isam, the BBC TV series of The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe was an early influence on me. As well as that moment, there was another [which I'll not spoil, even though it's very old now] during a sea voyage. Both of those made aware of how great fantasy could be.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited October 2015
    The philosophy behind the Tax credit move – moving from low wage, high tax to high wage, low tax - is the right one, but of course the details matter. The Chancellor has said that losses will be absorbed by higher wages, and we will have to make sure that’s the case.

    Best wishes,
    Zac Goldsmith
    The problem is that is nigh on impossible to get the two to move in a totally synchronised fashion.

    While there is considerable read across between low wages and tax credits, not everyone on a low annual rate will be on a low hourly rate because they work relatively few hours.

    Similarly, not everyone on a low hourly rate will be claiming tax credits, usually because they don't have children.

    If there is any sort of adjustment it will most likely be the staggered increase of the taper, or the staggered decrease of the threshold.I still think the new threshold is linked to universal credit, which will replace tax credits.

    Staged introduction may dilute any immediate political impact, but it extends it further into the parliament.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    JEO said:

    JonathanD said:

    Dair said:

    SandraM said:

    I saw 15 minutes of "Star Wars" and found so dull I've had no desire to see any of the other sequels or prequel.

    On a positive note, my parents once had as a near neighbour Stuart Freeborn, who created the design of Yoda and Chewbacca and he was the most delightful person you could meet.

    The first 15 minutes? You mean the space battle scene where Princess Leia gets captured? Dull?????
    I'm trying to think of any 15 minute period in Episode 4 where it can be described as dull, I've seen it enough times to know the whole film scene by scene (and probably most of the dialogue).

    There is definitely not a period of 15 minutes were it is dull.
    Its amazing how Lucas was such a good director for 4, 5 and 6 but sucked so badly for 1, 2 and 3.

    He had full creative control for 1,2,3 while there was a lot of input from others for 4,5,6. Sometimes people need to be able to be told 'no'.
    Mesa thin yoo shood no do 'at.
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