Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Mr. Corbyn joins the establishment

SystemSystem Posts: 5,841
edited October 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Mr. Corbyn joins the establishment

Things I knew but didn't appreciate at the time: Ed Miliband was TALL: pic.twitter.com/z2Bh9oFD1u

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • notmenotme Posts: 2,491
    First.
    And there is a loud audio advert playing on the homepage!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,637
    I'm sorry. Why precisely does Corbyn adhering the to minimal obligations of one of our senior politicians impress you?
  • notme said:

    First.
    And there is a loud audio advert playing on the homepage!

    I keep getting the Rubio discussion embedded in the thread header a few down.
  • notmenotme Posts: 2,491

    notme said:

    First.
    And there is a loud audio advert playing on the homepage!

    I keep getting the Rubio discussion embedded in the thread header a few down.
    It might be that....
  • Seamus Milne? SEAMUS MILNE? SEAMUS FLIPPING MILNE??

    Corbyn has to be greatest deep cover agent since Aldrich Ames
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 16,813

    Seamus Milne? SEAMUS MILNE? SEAMUS FLIPPING MILNE??

    Corbyn has to be greatest deep cover agent since Aldrich Ames

    Nah that's Osborne, the LibDems have got their man in place.
  • Seamus Milne? SEAMUS MILNE? SEAMUS FLIPPING MILNE??

    Corbyn has to be greatest deep cover agent since Aldrich Ames

    Nah that's Osborne, the LibDems have got their man in place.
    Osborne must be crap.

    Reduced the Lib Dems from 62 MPs to 8 MPs (yes eight)
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 5,620
    Why impressed?

    Just observing the formalities is impressive?

    LOL not exactly setting the bar high
  • FPT:

    That east Europeans should want to remember the deportations and killings of "class enemies" by the Soviet Union during and after the war is entirely understandable. So is their pressure on Russia to account, say, for the killing of Polish officers at Katyn – even if Soviet and Russian acknowledgment of Stalin's crimes already goes far beyond, for example, any such apologies by Britain or France for the crimes of colonialism.

    But the pretence that Soviet repression reached anything like the scale or depths of Nazi savagery – or that the postwar "enslavement" of eastern Europe can be equated with wartime Nazi genocide – is a mendacity that tips towards Holocaust denial. It is certainly not a mistake that could have been made by the Auschwitz survivors liberated by the Red Army in 1945.

    The real meaning of the attempt to equate Nazi genocide with Soviet repression is clearest in the Baltic republics, where collaboration with SS death squads and direct participation in the mass murder of Jews was at its most extreme, and politicians are at pains to turn perpetrators into victims.


    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/sep/09/second-world-war-soviet-pact

    Nazi genocide.
    Soviet repression.

    That's OK then. Stalin was cuddly Uncle Joe after all, apart from a smidgen of over-enthusiasm by some officials.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 5,620
    Charles said:

    I'm sorry. Why precisely does Corbyn adhering the to minimal obligations of one of our senior politicians impress you?

    Not just me then
  • Have to disagree Mike, this is the equivalent of praising a man for being able to smoke without setting his tie on fire.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 16,813

    Seamus Milne? SEAMUS MILNE? SEAMUS FLIPPING MILNE??

    Corbyn has to be greatest deep cover agent since Aldrich Ames

    Nah that's Osborne, the LibDems have got their man in place.
    Osborne must be crap.

    Reduced the Lib Dems from 62 MPs to 8 MPs (yes eight)
    That's his cover, he dupes the gullible to think he's blue through and through.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,453

    Seamus Milne? SEAMUS MILNE? SEAMUS FLIPPING MILNE??

    Corbyn has to be greatest deep cover agent since Aldrich Ames

    Seumas.
  • And another:

    http://www.theguardian.com/education/2002/sep/12/highereducation.historyandhistoryofart

    Corbyn's trying out New Politics for sure: identify your biggest negative, and make an appointment which confirms and magnifies it.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 5,620

    Seamus Milne? SEAMUS MILNE? SEAMUS FLIPPING MILNE??

    Corbyn has to be greatest deep cover agent since Aldrich Ames

    When I read that in the Telegraph it was most definitely a WTF moment.
  • Seamus Milne? SEAMUS MILNE? SEAMUS FLIPPING MILNE??

    Corbyn has to be greatest deep cover agent since Aldrich Ames

    Nah that's Osborne, the LibDems have got their man in place.
    Osborne must be crap.

    Reduced the Lib Dems from 62 MPs to 8 MPs (yes eight)
    That's his cover, he dupes the gullible to think he's blue through and through.
    Then he truly is a genius and master strategist.
  • Yes Mike, on the night Corbyn appoints Seamus Milne he has clearly gone native and is now establishment ...

    FPT

    TGOHF said:

    Labour heading for polling in the teens.

    Care to bet?
    What odds are you offering? That there will be a poll with Labour in the teens between now and the GE by a BPC-registered pollster.
  • Seamus Milne? SEAMUS MILNE? SEAMUS FLIPPING MILNE??

    Corbyn has to be greatest deep cover agent since Aldrich Ames

    Seumas.
    Oops
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 16,813

    Seamus Milne? SEAMUS MILNE? SEAMUS FLIPPING MILNE??

    Corbyn has to be greatest deep cover agent since Aldrich Ames

    Nah that's Osborne, the LibDems have got their man in place.
    Osborne must be crap.

    Reduced the Lib Dems from 62 MPs to 8 MPs (yes eight)
    That's his cover, he dupes the gullible to think he's blue through and through.
    Then he truly is a genius and master strategist.
    Not according to tim
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 8,197
    Don't worry. His underpants are still Marx's.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,857
    Floater said:

    Seamus Milne? SEAMUS MILNE? SEAMUS FLIPPING MILNE??

    Corbyn has to be greatest deep cover agent since Aldrich Ames

    When I read that in the Telegraph it was most definitely a WTF moment.
    Whats the Political Persuation of HM QE2's guests at tonights nosh up?

    Anyone know!
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Seamus Milne? SEAMUS MILNE? SEAMUS FLIPPING MILNE??

    Corbyn has to be greatest deep cover agent since Aldrich Ames

    Seumas.
    Dyslexic parents.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,392
    FPT - yes, he did. But he looks crap in it.

    It's very poorly tailored to him. He should have gone for a fitting.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 16,813
    edited October 2015

    FPT - yes, he did. But he looks crap in it.

    It's very poorly tailored to him. He should have gone for a fitting.

    typo in your post CR the last word, should have an "s" in it.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 36,517
    @TelePolitics: Detective to tell of his anger over Tom Watson's 'meddling' in VIP sex abuse case https://t.co/SXsOG2rOE9
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,392

    Have to disagree Mike, this is the equivalent of praising a man for being able to smoke without setting his tie on fire.

    To be honest, though, this now counts as a surprise and, therefore, an achievement.

    I thought he might have a "prior engagement".
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,815
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/tom-watson/11943722/Detective-to-tell-of-his-anger-over-Tom-Watsons-meddling-in-VIP-sex-abuse-case.html

    Fun session tomorrow afternoon :

    "A senior detective is expected to reveal to MPs his fury at being “undermined” by Tom Watson, Labour’s deputy leader, over a VIP sex abuse investigation"
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 5,521
    Corbyn.. I do hope someone asks him how he feels hanging out with the cognoscenti.. I do hope his pic is all over the front pages tomorrow.. hypocrite that he is.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 21,488

    FPT:

    That east Europeans should want to remember the deportations and killings of "class enemies" by the Soviet Union during and after the war is entirely understandable. So is their pressure on Russia to account, say, for the killing of Polish officers at Katyn – even if Soviet and Russian acknowledgment of Stalin's crimes already goes far beyond, for example, any such apologies by Britain or France for the crimes of colonialism.

    But the pretence that Soviet repression reached anything like the scale or depths of Nazi savagery – or that the postwar "enslavement" of eastern Europe can be equated with wartime Nazi genocide – is a mendacity that tips towards Holocaust denial. It is certainly not a mistake that could have been made by the Auschwitz survivors liberated by the Red Army in 1945.

    The real meaning of the attempt to equate Nazi genocide with Soviet repression is clearest in the Baltic republics, where collaboration with SS death squads and direct participation in the mass murder of Jews was at its most extreme, and politicians are at pains to turn perpetrators into victims.


    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/sep/09/second-world-war-soviet-pact

    Nazi genocide.
    Soviet repression.

    That's OK then. Stalin was cuddly Uncle Joe after all, apart from a smidgen of over-enthusiasm by some officials.

    No serious historian could avoid the conclusion that Soviet rule in Eastern Europe from 1939-41, and from 1945-50 was anything other than horrific.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 5,620
    A few choice quotes re Seumas

    http://order-order.com/2015/10/20/corbyn-hires-seumas-milne-as-comms-chief/

    “Rigby was a British soldier who had taken part in multiple combat operations in Afghanistan. So the attack wasn’t terrorism in the normal sense”.

    He can fuck right off.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 36,517
    @BBCAllegra: 1/ Apparently Corbyn's team been divided for 3 wks over hiring Seumas Milne. "Clean break" faction wanted SM to signal Corbyn project purity
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 8,925
    Sean_F said:

    FPT:

    That east Europeans should want to remember the deportations and killings of "class enemies" by the Soviet Union during and after the war is entirely understandable. So is their pressure on Russia to account, say, for the killing of Polish officers at Katyn – even if Soviet and Russian acknowledgment of Stalin's crimes already goes far beyond, for example, any such apologies by Britain or France for the crimes of colonialism.

    But the pretence that Soviet repression reached anything like the scale or depths of Nazi savagery – or that the postwar "enslavement" of eastern Europe can be equated with wartime Nazi genocide – is a mendacity that tips towards Holocaust denial. It is certainly not a mistake that could have been made by the Auschwitz survivors liberated by the Red Army in 1945.

    The real meaning of the attempt to equate Nazi genocide with Soviet repression is clearest in the Baltic republics, where collaboration with SS death squads and direct participation in the mass murder of Jews was at its most extreme, and politicians are at pains to turn perpetrators into victims.


    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/sep/09/second-world-war-soviet-pact

    Nazi genocide.
    Soviet repression.

    That's OK then. Stalin was cuddly Uncle Joe after all, apart from a smidgen of over-enthusiasm by some officials.

    No serious historian could avoid the conclusion that Soviet rule in Eastern Europe from 1939-41, and from 1945-50 was anything other than horrific.
    Milne is a bloody fool, and Corbyn is an even bigger fool for promoting him.
  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 614

    FPT - yes, he did. But he looks crap in it.

    It's very poorly tailored to him. He should have gone for a fitting.

    Do Oxfam do fittings?

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 36,517
    @BBCAllegra: 2/ there's a suggestion this eve that Tom Watson, Chair of Lab, didn't sign off SM. Worrying MPs looking to him to keep party together.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,637
    Floater said:

    Charles said:

    I'm sorry. Why precisely does Corbyn adhering the to minimal obligations of one of our senior politicians impress you?

    Not just me then
    I always knew you were a sensible chap!
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,822
    He got one decision right tonight then.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,267
    I wonder if we're going to have another "George Brown moment"

    Need a tame interpreter, though!
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Corbyn doesn't look good under that formal dress code.
    But he couldn't avoided it.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,857
    Floater said:

    A few choice quotes re Seumas

    http://order-order.com/2015/10/20/corbyn-hires-seumas-milne-as-comms-chief/

    “Rigby was a British soldier who had taken part in multiple combat operations in Afghanistan. So the attack wasn’t terrorism in the normal sense”.

    He can fuck right off.

    Competely out of context as per previous thread when i said if that is what he actually said Corbyn is an idiot for appointing him.

    Only to find out he was actually condeming the killers when shown in context
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 2,439
    GeoffM said:

    Seamus Milne? SEAMUS MILNE? SEAMUS FLIPPING MILNE??

    Corbyn has to be greatest deep cover agent since Aldrich Ames

    Seumas.
    Dyslexic parents.
    There goes the spore theory.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 2,728
    edited October 2015
    Scott_P said:

    @BBCAllegra: 2/ there's a suggestion this eve that Tom Watson, Chair of Lab, didn't sign off SM. Worrying MPs looking to him to keep party together.

    And see also:
    3/ Milne's reach massive: as head of both comms AND strategy - huge resources at his disposal. Not Corbynista open appointment process tho
    Should a move this unexpected be changing the odds on an early coup?

    Nothing could signify a hard left takeover over the party's core operations than the appointment of Milne. This is surely a bigger single blow (even if, in the long run, its ramifications are less important) than the pooling of shadow ministers' advisers into a "spad bank" under centralised control. There must be some absolutely furious MPs. Including big beasts and the shad cab.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,267

    Floater said:

    A few choice quotes re Seumas

    http://order-order.com/2015/10/20/corbyn-hires-seumas-milne-as-comms-chief/

    “Rigby was a British soldier who had taken part in multiple combat operations in Afghanistan. So the attack wasn’t terrorism in the normal sense”.

    He can fuck right off.

    Competely out of context as per previous thread when i said if that is what he actually said Corbyn is an idiot for appointing him.

    Only to find out he was actually condeming the killers when shown in context
    You have to remember, Mr O, that for some on the Right, the Daily Mail is a journal or record.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 2,634

    Floater said:

    A few choice quotes re Seumas

    http://order-order.com/2015/10/20/corbyn-hires-seumas-milne-as-comms-chief/

    “Rigby was a British soldier who had taken part in multiple combat operations in Afghanistan. So the attack wasn’t terrorism in the normal sense”.

    He can fuck right off.

    Competely out of context as per previous thread when i said if that is what he actually said Corbyn is an idiot for appointing him.

    Only to find out he was actually condeming the killers when shown in context
    As I posted previously, it won't be quoted in context. And, as someone else said, if you're explaining you're losing
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 36,517
    @philipjcowley: "This week in The Apprentice: the team get to run a major political party with hilarious consequences".
  • Floater said:

    A few choice quotes re Seumas

    http://order-order.com/2015/10/20/corbyn-hires-seumas-milne-as-comms-chief/

    “Rigby was a British soldier who had taken part in multiple combat operations in Afghanistan. So the attack wasn’t terrorism in the normal sense”.

    He can fuck right off.

    Competely out of context as per previous thread when i said if that is what he actually said Corbyn is an idiot for appointing him.

    Only to find out he was actually condeming the killers when shown in context
    No like Corbyn saying the death of Bin Laden is a tragedy the context doesn't help.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 2,439

    Scott_P said:

    @BBCAllegra: 2/ there's a suggestion this eve that Tom Watson, Chair of Lab, didn't sign off SM. Worrying MPs looking to him to keep party together.

    And see also:
    3/ Milne's reach massive: as head of both comms AND strategy - huge resources at his disposal. Not Corbynista open appointment process tho
    Should a move this unexpected be changing the odds on an early coup?

    Nothing could signify a hard left takeover over the party's core operations than the appointment of Milne. This is surely a bigger single blow (even if, in the long run, its ramifications are less important) than the pooling of shadow ministers' advisers into a "spad bank" under centralised control. There must be some absolutely furious MPs. Including big beasts and the shad cab.

    "huge resources" - like a slightly used pink van, and a somewhat tarnished block of stone?



  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,367

    Scott_P said:

    @BBCAllegra: 2/ there's a suggestion this eve that Tom Watson, Chair of Lab, didn't sign off SM. Worrying MPs looking to him to keep party together.

    And see also:
    3/ Milne's reach massive: as head of both comms AND strategy - huge resources at his disposal. Not Corbynista open appointment process tho
    Should a move this unexpected be changing the odds on an early coup?

    Nothing could signify a hard left takeover over the party's core operations than the appointment of Milne. This is surely a bigger single blow (even if, in the long run, its ramifications are less important) than the pooling of shadow ministers' advisers into a "spad bank" under centralised control. There must be some absolutely furious MPs. Including big beasts and the shad cab.

    The idea that Labour have any "big beasts" in or out of the shadow cabinet is unfortunately flawed. If they did the leadership would not be the unfunny comedy routine it is at the moment.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 7,366
    FPT:

    We can conclude what probably exists based on evidence. The absence of any evidence for the divine except for man-made creations that have an anthropological basis is a rational basis to conclude the absence of its existance.

    It doesn't mean we can conclude with 100% certainty that there is no God, Ghosts, Poltergeists, Invisible Pink Unicorns or Flying Spaghetti Monsters that exist. But the evidence for them all is equally zero and therefore probably don't exist.

    That is the scientific method. If the evidence changes, our conclusions can change.

    You're right, of course we can't. Yet people continue with the canard that 'science' has disproved the existence of God. Makes them feel better I suppose.
    Because it has. The notion that we can't be 100% certain so therefore we can't say God is disproven is invalid because scientific proof doesn't mean 100% certainty which is an impossibility. Our theories of how gravity works are changing but that doesn't mean gravity isn't right since we're not 100% certain on everything.

    There is not only zero evidence for mythical creatures but what those mythical creatures have supposedly done has been disproven. We can therefore conclude that the myths are disproven unless and until there is any evidence at all to the contrary.
    Oh dear. I think the only elusive mythical creature that there's no trace of here is a coherent argument.
  • Astonishing to hear about the Seumas Milne appointment. Is he even Labour supporter? (I always blithely assumed he was SWP or one of its splinters.)
  • HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 996
    edited October 2015
    Milne is another bubble appointment, the New Politics is supposed to be about reaching beyond pampered left wing ideologues that spend their time pontificating (and trying to rewrite) about long last political and social battles in a largely unread dead tree press remnant rather than pandering too them.
    Owen Jones and Zoe Williams will be sharing the economic brief at this rate....on a similar note has that council of economic owls Corbyn appointed even met yet?
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Seamus Milne? John McDonnell?

    Who's got women's issues? Mrs Brown
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 7,366
    Quite frankly, the appointment of anything walking on two legs as Labour's comms chief should come as a relief - at least there may be some communication now.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 2,634

    FPT:

    We can conclude what probably exists based on evidence. The absence of any evidence for the divine except for man-made creations that have an anthropological basis is a rational basis to conclude the absence of its existance.

    It doesn't mean we can conclude with 100% certainty that there is no God, Ghosts, Poltergeists, Invisible Pink Unicorns or Flying Spaghetti Monsters that exist. But the evidence for them all is equally zero and therefore probably don't exist.

    That is the scientific method. If the evidence changes, our conclusions can change.

    You're right, of course we can't. Yet people continue with the canard that 'science' has disproved the existence of God. Makes them feel better I suppose.
    Because it has. The notion that we can't be 100% certain so therefore we can't say God is disproven is invalid because scientific proof doesn't mean 100% certainty which is an impossibility. Our theories of how gravity works are changing but that doesn't mean gravity isn't right since we're not 100% certain on everything.

    There is not only zero evidence for mythical creatures but what those mythical creatures have supposedly done has been disproven. We can therefore conclude that the myths are disproven unless and until there is any evidence at all to the contrary.
    Oh dear. I think the only elusive mythical creature that there's no trace of here is a coherent argument.
    I'm beginning to wonder if you're real.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 2,439
    Alan Yentob is in all sorts of trouble with Kids company. It's unclear where all the money went, but it certainly didn't go to 'kids'. My hunch is jail sentences all round.
  • Scott_P said:

    @BBCAllegra: 2/ there's a suggestion this eve that Tom Watson, Chair of Lab, didn't sign off SM. Worrying MPs looking to him to keep party together.

    And see also:
    3/ Milne's reach massive: as head of both comms AND strategy - huge resources at his disposal. Not Corbynista open appointment process tho
    Should a move this unexpected be changing the odds on an early coup?

    Nothing could signify a hard left takeover over the party's core operations than the appointment of Milne.What about the appointment of McDonnell?

    I think Corbyn is trying to make appointments to make him look like a moderate in contrast.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,075
    At Half time on Monday Night Football, they ran a 2:36 trailer for Star Wars:The Farce Awakens. Within minutes Fandango crashed, and in less than 24 hours they have sold ONE MILLION tickets for a movie that doesn't open until the week before Christmas.

    I just don't get it - particularly after the crap that was the last three. Merchandise is flying off the shelves.
  • FPT:

    We can conclude what probably exists based on evidence. The absence of any evidence for the divine except for man-made creations that have an anthropological basis is a rational basis to conclude the absence of its existance.

    It doesn't mean we can conclude with 100% certainty that there is no God, Ghosts, Poltergeists, Invisible Pink Unicorns or Flying Spaghetti Monsters that exist. But the evidence for them all is equally zero and therefore probably don't exist.

    That is the scientific method. If the evidence changes, our conclusions can change.

    You're right, of course we can't. Yet people continue with the canard that 'science' has disproved the existence of God. Makes them feel better I suppose.
    Because it has. The notion that we can't be 100% certain so therefore we can't say God is disproven is invalid because scientific proof doesn't mean 100% certainty which is an impossibility. Our theories of how gravity works are changing but that doesn't mean gravity isn't right since we're not 100% certain on everything.

    There is not only zero evidence for mythical creatures but what those mythical creatures have supposedly done has been disproven. We can therefore conclude that the myths are disproven unless and until there is any evidence at all to the contrary.
    Oh dear. I think the only elusive mythical creature that there's no trace of here is a coherent argument.
    The fact you don't understand the argument does not mean it is incoherent.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 7,366

    FPT:

    We can conclude what probably exists based on evidence. The absence of any evidence for the divine except for man-made creations that have an anthropological basis is a rational basis to conclude the absence of its existance.

    It doesn't mean we can conclude with 100% certainty that there is no God, Ghosts, Poltergeists, Invisible Pink Unicorns or Flying Spaghetti Monsters that exist. But the evidence for them all is equally zero and therefore probably don't exist.

    That is the scientific method. If the evidence changes, our conclusions can change.

    You're right, of course we can't. Yet people continue with the canard that 'science' has disproved the existence of God. Makes them feel better I suppose.
    Because it has. The notion that we can't be 100% certain so therefore we can't say God is disproven is invalid because scientific proof doesn't mean 100% certainty which is an impossibility. Our theories of how gravity works are changing but that doesn't mean gravity isn't right since we're not 100% certain on everything.

    There is not only zero evidence for mythical creatures but what those mythical creatures have supposedly done has been disproven. We can therefore conclude that the myths are disproven unless and until there is any evidence at all to the contrary.
    Oh dear. I think the only elusive mythical creature that there's no trace of here is a coherent argument.
    I'm beginning to wonder if you're real.
    Well why not just disbelieve in me then. You've never actually seen me after all.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 8,408
    edited October 2015
    At least this shows he's not given in completely with the announcement of Milne.... gone done well I see with comrades..


    Tony McNulty ‏@Tony_McNulty 3h3 hours ago
    @Markfergusonuk What an absolutely disastrous appointment - with bells, whistles and god knows what else on... Utterly dreadful.


    Mark Ferguson
    @Markfergusonuk
    Seamus Milne? Seamus? Milne? Seamus Milne?
    Right. Well. That’s happened then

    Luke Akehurst
    @lukeakehurst
    Not sure why left is bothering to keep SWP out of Momentum if appointing Stalin-apologist to key role. At least SWP not Stalinist.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 7,366

    FPT:

    We can conclude what probably exists based on evidence. The absence of any evidence for the divine except for man-made creations that have an anthropological basis is a rational basis to conclude the absence of its existance.

    It doesn't mean we can conclude with 100% certainty that there is no God, Ghosts, Poltergeists, Invisible Pink Unicorns or Flying Spaghetti Monsters that exist. But the evidence for them all is equally zero and therefore probably don't exist.

    That is the scientific method. If the evidence changes, our conclusions can change.

    You're right, of course we can't. Yet people continue with the canard that 'science' has disproved the existence of God. Makes them feel better I suppose.
    Because it has. The notion that we can't be 100% certain so therefore we can't say God is disproven is invalid because scientific proof doesn't mean 100% certainty which is an impossibility. Our theories of how gravity works are changing but that doesn't mean gravity isn't right since we're not 100% certain on everything.

    There is not only zero evidence for mythical creatures but what those mythical creatures have supposedly done has been disproven. We can therefore conclude that the myths are disproven unless and until there is any evidence at all to the contrary.
    Oh dear. I think the only elusive mythical creature that there's no trace of here is a coherent argument.
    The fact you don't understand the argument does not mean it is incoherent.
    I understand how disastrously incoherent it is.
  • notmenotme Posts: 2,491
    When a new government gets in, they often try to get all the bad news out in their first few months, in the hope that five years later people wont remember.

    Is that what we are witnessing here? Is the Labour Party trying to deliberately make lots of bad decisions, and then when it gets to rock bottom, confound us all by getting it right??

    nah..
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,857

    At least this shows he's not given in completely with the announcement of Milne.... gone done well I see with comrades..


    Tony McNulty ‏@Tony_McNulty 3h3 hours ago
    @Markfergusonuk What an absolutely disastrous appointment - with bells, whistles and god knows what else on... Utterly dreadful.


    .

    Did Seamus blow the whistle on McNumptys "bogus" expense claims
  • Scott_P said:

    @BBCAllegra: 2/ there's a suggestion this eve that Tom Watson, Chair of Lab, didn't sign off SM. Worrying MPs looking to him to keep party together.

    And see also:
    3/ Milne's reach massive: as head of both comms AND strategy - huge resources at his disposal. Not Corbynista open appointment process tho
    Should a move this unexpected be changing the odds on an early coup?

    Nothing could signify a hard left takeover over the party's core operations than the appointment of Milne.
    What about the appointment of McDonnell?

    I think Corbyn is trying to make appointments to make him look like a moderate in contrast.


    The Cabinet team, yes, McDonnell was a real statement of intent about policy direction etc.

    MPs always knew the policy direction wasn't going to go their way, but that's a storm they can weather out (so long as an election doesn't cost them their seat in the meantime).

    I'm talking about the party's apparatus and organisation. "Moderate"/"Red Tory" MPs can't afford to let that get too far away from them. Otherwise they risk being a couple of hundred individuals (I'm being generous) with minimal support base in the membership and at odds with the party machine itself. On current trends, new blood into the parliamentary party is going to be very red indeed. The Labour "Right" (or frankly, traditional Centre) is being pushed into a corner. There's a time you have to fight, or die. There must be people tonight who feel that time has just edged closer.

  • Mark Ferguson
    @Markfergusonuk
    Seamus Milne? Seamus? Milne? Seamus Milne?
    Right. Well. That’s happened then

    It's actually Seumas.

    As I point out at the many fun events I attend.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 13,436
    edited October 2015

    Oh dear. I think the only elusive mythical creature that there's no trace of here is a coherent argument.

    The fact you don't understand the argument does not mean it is incoherent.
    I understand how disastrously incoherent it is.
    It is entirely coherent. You are committing a logical fallacy in putting the burden of proof on disproving a myth. If someone is proposing something's existence like gods or orbital tea pots or invisible pink unicorns or anything like it then it is up to them to provide evidence for its existence, not up to others to disprove it.

    As Bertrand Russell put it:
    I ought to call myself an agnostic; but, for all practical purposes, I am an atheist. I do not think the existence of the Christian God any more probable than the existence of the Gods of Olympus or Valhalla. To take another illustration: nobody can prove that there is not between the Earth and Mars a china teapot revolving in an elliptical orbit, but nobody thinks this sufficiently likely to be taken into account in practice. I think the Christian God just as unlikely.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,075
    Biden has changed his story on the Bin Laden raid - saying he knew the intel before Hillary, he was in favor of it, and emphasizing that he speaks for POTUS overseas, not Hillary.

    The talking heads are saying it is looking increasingly like he will run. They reason he will be the backup in case Hillary gets to visit Club Fed.

    If he gets in the race, his only other chance is to go negative and hard on Hillary from Day One.

    As of Monday the Draft Biden movement agreed to go dark to let Biden speak for himself.
  • Pleased to see the gooners win tonight..... but with Olympiakos winning still a struggle...

    At least it means they'll surely send a strong team out to Bayern next time....

    just before they then play Spurs at the weekend after that...

    #spursfanalwayslookingforstraws2clutch
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 2,634

    Scott_P said:

    @BBCAllegra: 2/ there's a suggestion this eve that Tom Watson, Chair of Lab, didn't sign off SM. Worrying MPs looking to him to keep party together.

    And see also:
    3/ Milne's reach massive: as head of both comms AND strategy - huge resources at his disposal. Not Corbynista open appointment process tho
    Should a move this unexpected be changing the odds on an early coup?

    Nothing could signify a hard left takeover over the party's core operations than the appointment of Milne.
    What about the appointment of McDonnell?

    I think Corbyn is trying to make appointments to make him look like a moderate in contrast.


    I think he's having to fish in a rapidly evaporating pool - the result of all the heat he's generating. It's one thing to be able to justify being supportive when asked, it's an entirely different thing to wear the regalia. Where is Uncle Len while all this is going on? What is he thinking?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 9,208
    edited October 2015
    I think Milne will turn out to be a smart appointment. He's persuasive and an elegant left wing writer

    (Is the Queen serving Peking Duck?)
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,822
    Seumas Milne's appointment really is a Westminster village story. No one outside SW1 who isn't a political obsessive will notice much, and certainly no one who is a floating voter.

    That said, sometimes Westminster village stories matter because of the impact on the villagers. There are going to be huge numbers of hacked off Labour MPs tonight. They're going to be even more mutinous as a consequence.
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 20,589
    Roger said:

    I think Milne will turn out to be a smart appointment. He's persuasive and an elegant left wing writer

    Rogerdamus Speaketh another Quatrain.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 36,517
    @Robert___Harris: By next election Corbyn will be 70, McDonnell 68, Milne 62. Will look more like a Poltiburo tribute band than the wave of the future.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 2,634

    FPT:

    We can conclude what probably exists based on evidence. The absence of any evidence for the divine except for man-made creations that have an anthropological basis is a rational basis to conclude the absence of its existance.

    It doesn't mean we can conclude with 100% certainty that there is no God, Ghosts, Poltergeists, Invisible Pink Unicorns or Flying Spaghetti Monsters that exist. But the evidence for them all is equally zero and therefore probably don't exist.

    That is the scientific method. If the evidence changes, our conclusions can change.

    You're right, of course we can't. Yet people continue with the canard that 'science' has disproved the existence of God. Makes them feel better I suppose.
    Because it has. The notion that we can't be 100% certain so therefore we can't say God is disproven is invalid because scientific proof doesn't mean 100% certainty which is an impossibility. Our theories of how gravity works are changing but that doesn't mean gravity isn't right since we're not 100% certain on everything.

    There is not only zero evidence for mythical creatures but what those mythical creatures have supposedly done has been disproven. We can therefore conclude that the myths are disproven unless and until there is any evidence at all to the contrary.
    Oh dear. I think the only elusive mythical creature that there's no trace of here is a coherent argument.
    I'm beginning to wonder if you're real.
    Well why not just disbelieve in me then. You've never actually seen me after all.
    There is some evidence that you exist though to be fair I don't overly care if you do or don't. I'd miss the craic though.
  • Roger said:

    I think Milne will turn out to be a smart appointment. He's persuasive and an elegant left wing writer

    (Is the Queen serving Peking Duck?)

    You think Milne writing "they can't see why they're hated" on September 13 2001, published within 48 hours of the collapse of the Twin Towers was persuasive and elegant?
  • AndyJS said:
    LOL! I think you can drop the ex- from both phrases though.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 41,640
    So an ageing Communist did meet the President of China!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 36,517
    Roger said:

    I think Milne will turn out to be a smart appointment. He's persuasive and an elegant left wing writer

    They really are fked now
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,470
    edited October 2015
    Tim_B said:

    Biden has changed his story on the Bin Laden raid - saying he knew the intel before Hillary, he was in favor of it, and emphasizing that he speaks for POTUS overseas, not Hillary.

    The talking heads are saying it is looking increasingly like he will run. They reason he will be the backup in case Hillary gets to visit Club Fed.

    If he gets in the race, his only other chance is to go negative and hard on Hillary from Day One.

    As of Monday the Draft Biden movement agreed to go dark to let Biden speak for himself.

    I was thinking what the odds might be after he announced, maybe Hillary 60%, Biden 30%, Sanders 10%? I think you said that Biden wouldn't win on merit, but you seem quite confident of a Clinton imploision.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 36,517
    @BBCAllegra: 3/ Milne was a vg colleague - I worked with him at the G. But many Lab MPs even more worried this eve than they had been. Saying summat.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 41,640
    Harper to be PM of new 'Republic of Western Canada' despite losing yesterday's general election?
    http://failmuch.com/harper-suggests-republic-of-western-canada-separates-from-canada/
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 2,634

    Scott_P said:

    @BBCAllegra: 2/ there's a suggestion this eve that Tom Watson, Chair of Lab, didn't sign off SM. Worrying MPs looking to him to keep party together.

    And see also:
    3/ Milne's reach massive: as head of both comms AND strategy - huge resources at his disposal. Not Corbynista open appointment process tho
    Should a move this unexpected be changing the odds on an early coup?

    Nothing could signify a hard left takeover over the party's core operations than the appointment of Milne.
    What about the appointment of McDonnell?

    I think Corbyn is trying to make appointments to make him look like a moderate in contrast.
    The Cabinet team, yes, McDonnell was a real statement of intent about policy direction etc.

    MPs always knew the policy direction wasn't going to go their way, but that's a storm they can weather out (so long as an election doesn't cost them their seat in the meantime).

    I'm talking about the party's apparatus and organisation. "Moderate"/"Red Tory" MPs can't afford to let that get too far away from them. Otherwise they risk being a couple of hundred individuals (I'm being generous) with minimal support base in the membership and at odds with the party machine itself. On current trends, new blood into the parliamentary party is going to be very red indeed. The Labour "Right" (or frankly, traditional Centre) is being pushed into a corner. There's a time you have to fight, or die. There must be people tonight who feel that time has just edged closer.

    Chamberlains or Churchills?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,637

    FPT:

    We can conclude what probably exists based on evidence. The absence of any evidence for the divine except for man-made creations that have an anthropological basis is a rational basis to conclude the absence of its existance.

    It doesn't mean we can conclude with 100% certainty that there is no God, Ghosts, Poltergeists, Invisible Pink Unicorns or Flying Spaghetti Monsters that exist. But the evidence for them all is equally zero and therefore probably don't exist.

    That is the scientific method. If the evidence changes, our conclusions can change.

    You're right, of course we can't. Yet people continue with the canard that 'science' has disproved the existence of God. Makes them feel better I suppose.
    Because it has. The notion that we can't be 100% certain so therefore we can't say God is disproven is invalid because scientific proof doesn't mean 100% certainty which is an impossibility. Our theories of how gravity works are changing but that doesn't mean gravity isn't right since we're not 100% certain on everything.

    There is not only zero evidence for mythical creatures but what those mythical creatures have supposedly done has been disproven. We can therefore conclude that the myths are disproven unless and until there is any evidence at all to the contrary.
    Oh dear. I think the only elusive mythical creature that there's no trace of here is a coherent argument.
    I'm beginning to wonder if you're real.
    You could start with Descartes.

    Although, in this case... ;)
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 22,135
    "Simon Schama’s use of the word ‘suburban’ on Question Time was very revealing — Douglas Murray"

    http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/simon-schamas-use-of-the-word-suburban-on-question-time-was-very-revealing/
  • Roger or Antifrank...

    whose opinion do I rely on?

    hmm... I need SO to tell me on all things left {& spurs}
  • antifrank said:

    Seumas Milne's appointment really is a Westminster village story. No one outside SW1 who isn't a political obsessive will notice much, and certainly no one who is a floating voter.

    That said, sometimes Westminster village stories matter because of the impact on the villagers. There are going to be huge numbers of hacked off Labour MPs tonight. They're going to be even more mutinous as a consequence.

    Corbyn is essentially telling them to piss off. It is clear now he has no interest in Labour being a party of government. Rather, his aim is to ensure it is a party of the far left.

  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    'He made the right decision.'

    However, I’m not sure the Corbynista will see it that way.
  • antifrank said:

    Seumas Milne's appointment really is a Westminster village story. No one outside SW1 who isn't a political obsessive will notice much, and certainly no one who is a floating voter.

    That said, sometimes Westminster village stories matter because of the impact on the villagers. There are going to be huge numbers of hacked off Labour MPs tonight. They're going to be even more mutinous as a consequence.

    Corbyn is essentially telling them to piss off. It is clear now he has no interest in Labour being a party of government. Rather, his aim is to ensure it is a party of the far left.

    timely......
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,211
    Scott_P said:

    @Robert___Harris: By next election Corbyn will be 70, McDonnell 68, Milne 62. Will look more like a Poltiburo tribute band than the wave of the future.

    Labourlist have a picture which I took to be the gentleman in question. He looks a lot younger than 62, or is it someone else?

    http://labourlist.org/2015/10/seumas-milne-lands-top-corbyn-job/
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 20,589
    antifrank said:

    Seumas Milne's appointment really is a Westminster village story. No one outside SW1 who isn't a political obsessive will notice much, and certainly no one who is a floating voter.

    That said, sometimes Westminster village stories matter because of the impact on the villagers. There are going to be huge numbers of hacked off Labour MPs tonight. They're going to be even more mutinous as a consequence.

    Well, quite. This will mean ZERO to voters, but an awful lot to MPs. I have left wing Guardianista friends who loathe and despise the public-school-commie, SeUmas Milne view of the world, and would rather not vote than give it house room.

    He is a full on Trot. The real deal. He's not even lefty Labour - he's an out and out America-phobic, capitalism-hating, Islsmist-luvvin, Stalin-admiring TROTSKYITE.

    I do pity sane Labourites, tonight. It's like seeing a friend's face being covered with a weird fungus.

  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,075

    Tim_B said:

    Biden has changed his story on the Bin Laden raid - saying he knew the intel before Hillary, he was in favor of it, and emphasizing that he speaks for POTUS overseas, not Hillary.

    The talking heads are saying it is looking increasingly like he will run. They reason he will be the backup in case Hillary gets to visit Club Fed.

    If he gets in the race, his only other chance is to go negative and hard on Hillary from Day One.

    As of Monday the Draft Biden movement agreed to go dark to let Biden speak for himself.

    I was thinking what the odds might be after he announced, maybe Hillary 60%, Biden 30%, Sanders 10%? I think you said that Biden wouldn't win on merit, but you seem quite confident of a Clinton imploision.
    I think Clinton is so far ahead and so much better organized and financed that Biden has almost no chance unless one of two things happens - either he can conquer her lead by an incredibly hard negative campaign, or the FBI strikes.

    No I'm not confident of a Clinton implosion. I doubt it'll happen. The threat to her campaign isn't implosion, it's indictment. Big difference.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,637

    Oh dear. I think the only elusive mythical creature that there's no trace of here is a coherent argument.

    The fact you don't understand the argument does not mean it is incoherent.
    I understand how disastrously incoherent it is.
    It is entirely coherent. You are committing a logical fallacy in putting the burden of proof on disproving a myth. If someone is proposing something's existence like gods or orbital tea pots or invisible pink unicorns or anything like it then it is up to them to provide evidence for its existence, not up to others to disprove it.

    As Bertrand Russell put it:
    I ought to call myself an agnostic; but, for all practical purposes, I am an atheist. I do not think the existence of the Christian God any more probable than the existence of the Gods of Olympus or Valhalla. To take another illustration: nobody can prove that there is not between the Earth and Mars a china teapot revolving in an elliptical orbit, but nobody thinks this sufficiently likely to be taken into account in practice. I think the Christian God just as unlikely.
    You're spinning in a circle here with definitions.

    Belief in a God of any kind is an act of faith.

    Faith is, by definition, that which cannot be proven by science.

    Hence science can only disprove the existence of God by disproving the *possibility* of the existence of God. They can't do it by arguing that there is no evidence - because it then just reverts back into being a matter of faith.
  • William_HWilliam_H Posts: 316
    antifrank said:

    Seumas Milne's appointment really is a Westminster village story. No one outside SW1 who isn't a political obsessive will notice much, and certainly no one who is a floating voter.

    That said, sometimes Westminster village stories matter because of the impact on the villagers. There are going to be huge numbers of hacked off Labour MPs tonight. They're going to be even more mutinous as a consequence.

    People can mine his past history for embarassing quotes. Particularly some of the stuff on 9/11 and Lee Rigby, and it will play into existing damaging narratives.

    Though I suppose if Cameron can get by largely unscathed from Coulson I might be overestimating the impact. Maybe people expect this role to be filled by bastards.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 2,634

    Pleased to see the gooners win tonight..... but with Olympiakos winning still a struggle...

    At least it means they'll surely send a strong team out to Bayern next time....

    just before they then play Spurs at the weekend after that...

    #spursfanalwayslookingforstraws2clutch

    Although a fellow Yid, I can't think of any circumstance where a gooner win was the cause of pleasure.
  • Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Biden has changed his story on the Bin Laden raid - saying he knew the intel before Hillary, he was in favor of it, and emphasizing that he speaks for POTUS overseas, not Hillary.

    The talking heads are saying it is looking increasingly like he will run. They reason he will be the backup in case Hillary gets to visit Club Fed.

    If he gets in the race, his only other chance is to go negative and hard on Hillary from Day One.

    As of Monday the Draft Biden movement agreed to go dark to let Biden speak for himself.

    I was thinking what the odds might be after he announced, maybe Hillary 60%, Biden 30%, Sanders 10%? I think you said that Biden wouldn't win on merit, but you seem quite confident of a Clinton imploision.
    I think Clinton is so far ahead and so much better organized and financed that Biden has almost no chance unless one of two things happens - either he can conquer her lead by an incredibly hard negative campaign, or the FBI strikes.

    No I'm not confident of a Clinton implosion. I doubt it'll happen. The threat to her campaign isn't implosion, it's indictment. Big difference.
    I see your point, but by "implosion" I really meant a problem of her own making, an unforced error.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 22,135
    "Nine-month pregnant 14-year-old goes missing amid anger the Netherlands is allowing child brides from Syria to seek asylum

    The Netherlands currently faces a problem in providing asylum for girls who married in Syria but are below the Dutch age of consent, which some argue condones pedophilia. As many as 20 girls between the ages of 13 and 15 have been given legal permission to join their older partners in Dutch asylum centres, regional news channel RTV-Noord reports."


    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-crisis-nine-month-pregnant-14-year-old-goes-missing-amid-anger-the-netherlands-is-allowing-a6701136.html
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 5,620
    Omnium said:

    Alan Yentob is in all sorts of trouble with Kids company. It's unclear where all the money went, but it certainly didn't go to 'kids'. My hunch is jail sentences all round.

    There have been reports in press about where some of the money went.

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,241
    This isn't the same Milne who wrote the Winnie the Pooh books, right?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,799
    SeanT said:

    antifrank said:

    Seumas Milne's appointment really is a Westminster village story. No one outside SW1 who isn't a political obsessive will notice much, and certainly no one who is a floating voter.

    That said, sometimes Westminster village stories matter because of the impact on the villagers. There are going to be huge numbers of hacked off Labour MPs tonight. They're going to be even more mutinous as a consequence.

    Well, quite. This will mean ZERO to voters, but an awful lot to MPs. I have left wing Guardianista friends who loathe and despise the public-school-commie, SeUmas Milne view of the world, and would rather not vote than give it house room.

    He is a full on Trot. The real deal. He's not even lefty Labour - he's an out and out America-phobic, capitalism-hating, Islsmist-luvvin, Stalin-admiring TROTSKYITE.

    I do pity sane Labourites, tonight. It's like seeing a friend's face being covered with a weird fungus.

    That's no weird fungus. That's necrotising fasciitus....
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 20,589
    William_H said:

    antifrank said:

    Seumas Milne's appointment really is a Westminster village story. No one outside SW1 who isn't a political obsessive will notice much, and certainly no one who is a floating voter.

    That said, sometimes Westminster village stories matter because of the impact on the villagers. There are going to be huge numbers of hacked off Labour MPs tonight. They're going to be even more mutinous as a consequence.

    People can mine his past history for embarassing quotes. Particularly some of the stuff on 9/11 and Lee Rigby, and it will play into existing damaging narratives.

    Though I suppose if Cameron can get by largely unscathed from Coulson I might be overestimating the impact. Maybe people expect this role to be filled by bastards.
    One also has to ask how good he will be, within the narrow remit of his job (setting aside his appalling history of dubious opinions, now being trawled, at leisure, by chortling Tory aides).

    He was a click-baiting columnist for the Guardian, FFS. A silly posh twat employed solely to tickle the paper's older, leftier readers, and occasionally bring in some online visitors by expressing an outre opinion about dead British soldiers.

    He has no visible skills when it comes to mass appeal. None at all. None whatsoever.
Sign In or Register to comment.