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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New study by John Curtice suggests that the referendum LEA

SystemSystem Posts: 5,841
edited October 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New study by John Curtice suggests that the referendum LEAVE/REMAIN divide is about class, age and education

The picture above was taken at last month’s UKIP conference where there was a great effort to aim at the young. Whether dressing the youngsters up in these t-shirts will have an impact I don’t know but the LEAVE camp is very much aware of where it’s weaknesses is.

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 743
    First!
  • JackWJackW Posts: 13,349
    Say No To Gadfly ....
  • MattWMattW Posts: 1,851
    Two comments by 8am?

    Noooooooooooo.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,267
    If the young and the bright want to stay in, should not the older generation think VERY carefully before voting to leave.

    Re-inforces, as an OAP, my intention to vote to stay in.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,637
    edited October 2015

    If the young and the bright want to stay in, should not the older generation think VERY carefully before voting to leave.

    Re-inforces, as an OAP, my intention to vote to stay in.

    But wouldn't the moral thing to do be to abstain as there will only be limited impact on you? Let your children and grandchildren make up their own minds.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 13,349
    Nigel Says No To Gadfly ....

  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 5,868
    Lower class, old uneducated want to leave. (paraphrasing)
    I"n general the younger and more middle class you are the greater the chance that you’ll be in the remain camp. Another big divider is education with graduates far more likely to want to stay in the EU."
  • Charles said:

    If the young and the bright want to stay in, should not the older generation think VERY carefully before voting to leave.

    Re-inforces, as an OAP, my intention to vote to stay in.

    But wouldn't the moral thing to do be to abstain as there will only be limited impact on you? Let your children and grandchildren make up their own minds.
    The moral thing to do - I had supposed - was to abstain on the grounds that there are obnoxious people in both YES and NO camps. If there are also going to be such people in the ABSTAIN camp, that's going to make life really hard :(

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,189
    Good morning, everyone.

    King Cole, not all those who are bright or went to university want to stay in.

    Off-topic: on the homepage, I got an auto-playing audio clip. If it's possible to opt out of such things, please do so, as they are clearly the work of Satan.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,637

    Good morning, everyone.

    King Cole, not all those who are bright or went to university want to stay in.

    Off-topic: on the homepage, I got an auto-playing audio clip. If it's possible to opt out of such things, please do so, as they are clearly the work of Satan.

    I find turning the volume down is the best way to resist the blandishments of Satan
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,392
    I'm young(ish) middle-class and a graduate. And they don't come much more Leave than me.

    Frankly, I think this is social and about class-signalling: polls like this will reinforce that, because the affluent, well-educated and young won't want to be associated with those 'ignorant bigoted plebs who have their heads stuck in the past'.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,392
    I love the Napoleon Dynamite style 'Nigel Says No' supporter second from the right.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 13,349
    Charles said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    King Cole, not all those who are bright or went to university want to stay in.

    Off-topic: on the homepage, I got an auto-playing audio clip. If it's possible to opt out of such things, please do so, as they are clearly the work of Satan.

    I find turning the volume down is the best way to resist the blandishments of Satan
    How can you hear IDS if the "Quiet Man" is turning the volume up and you have him on mute ?

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,189
    Mr. Royale, not to mention, younger people tend to be more leftwing. Metropolitan types tend to be more leftwing. And sceptics are more likely to be on the right.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    I'm young(ish) middle-class and a graduate. And they don't come much more Leave than me.

    Frankly, I think this is social and about class-signalling: polls like this will reinforce that, because the affluent, well-educated and young won't want to be associated with those 'ignorant bigoted plebs who have their heads stuck in the past'.

    This will be like the GE all over again. People will tell pollsters they are nice left-leaning liberal progressives (IN) and then when in the polling booth vote Tory (OUT).
  • Lets go Mets!!!!

    There's hope for we spurs fans....
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,392

    Mr. Royale, not to mention, younger people tend to be more leftwing. Metropolitan types tend to be more leftwing. And sceptics are more likely to be on the right.

    Twas ever thus.

    To be honest, there's a correlation doesn't equal causation thing going on here.

    It's very easy for Remain supporters to paint themselves into a corner where they convince themselves it's only idiots and the uneducated who want to Leave.

    But that misses the point: if you are very well-educated and connected, mass immigration and freedom of movement can work economically very much in your favour. If you are not, it can be tough indeed.

    Raw intelligence doesn't come into it. And, even if it did, intelligent people are just as capable of lazy group-think as the non-intelligent.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,189
    Mr. Indigo, alas, I don't think many people see In as being as terrifying a prospect as Ed Miliband, PM propped up by the SNP.
  • Lets go Mets!!!!

    There's hope for we spurs fans....

    No. None at all.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited October 2015
    Indigo said:

    I'm young(ish) middle-class and a graduate. And they don't come much more Leave than me.

    Frankly, I think this is social and about class-signalling: polls like this will reinforce that, because the affluent, well-educated and young won't want to be associated with those 'ignorant bigoted plebs who have their heads stuck in the past'.

    This will be like the GE all over again. People will tell pollsters they are nice left-leaning liberal progressives (IN) and then when in the polling booth vote Tory (OUT).
    It may well be like the GE all over again. The vocal Booers get convinced by shouting their own arguments, then are a damp squib on the day as the majority vote for continuity.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,267
    Charles said:

    If the young and the bright want to stay in, should not the older generation think VERY carefully before voting to leave.

    Re-inforces, as an OAP, my intention to vote to stay in.

    But wouldn't the moral thing to do be to abstain as there will only be limited impact on you? Let your children and grandchildren make up their own minds.
    I think there’s an argument for that. I’d better vote, though to cancel out some “back to fifties” type!
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 26,364
    edited October 2015
    While not claiming to have a great inside track on younger generations generally, I am pretty confident that my kids - aged seventeen to 24 - would not be seen dead in T-shirts proclaiming "Nigel Says No".
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,189
    Mr. Foxinsox, that's my concern, especially as some *cough*Farage*cough* just want to be seen and heard rather than win.

    That said, at this early stage In appear to be winning the cock-up race.
  • Lets go Mets!!!!

    There's hope for we spurs fans....

    Surely Spurs are the Cubs.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,822
    It's a shame that Remain isn't pulling away, if only because I can't observe that in Autumn Leave starts to fall.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    OT - how's the move back to Blighty going?
    Indigo said:

    I'm young(ish) middle-class and a graduate. And they don't come much more Leave than me.

    Frankly, I think this is social and about class-signalling: polls like this will reinforce that, because the affluent, well-educated and young won't want to be associated with those 'ignorant bigoted plebs who have their heads stuck in the past'.

    This will be like the GE all over again. People will tell pollsters they are nice left-leaning liberal progressives (IN) and then when in the polling booth vote Tory (OUT).
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 26,364
    edited October 2015

    I love the Napoleon Dynamite style 'Nigel Says No' supporter second from the right.

    My eyes are drawn to Eddie Remayne as the young Stephen Hawking three in from the right.

  • antifrank said:

    It's a shame that Remain isn't pulling away, if only because I can't observe that in Autumn Leave starts to fall.

    You did anyway. Since when has a Peebie been deterred by reality?

  • And just what has the short dumpy one in glasses got in his right hand pocket? A nation demands answers ...
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I see CAGE are doing another media turn today in the Royal Courts of Justice. They're arguing that the Charity Commission was unfair to them re Jihadi John. Crikey the Rowntree Foundation gave them up to £1/2m !!
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 8,408
    edited October 2015

    Lets go Mets!!!!

    There's hope for we spurs fans....

    Surely Spurs are the Cubs.

    In the sense I've supported both for well over 2 decades and rarely seen them win anything! [That win over Anderlecht being the highest for me]
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,189
    Mr. Observer, it's not something I'd do either.

    It's a serious mistake for to consider Faragians to be synonymous with sceptics. It'd be a bit like considering Opus Dei to be the whole Catholic Church.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,267

    While not claiming to have a great inside track on younger generations generally, I am pretty confident that my kids - aged seventeen to 24 - would not be seen dead in T-shirts proclaiming "Nigel Says No".

    Especially if they were called Nigel. Or had a boyfriend called Nigel!

    Personally I’ve had a strong antipathy for the name ever since a girl I was very fond of left me for someone of that name.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 8,197
    I think you're all being a bit mean to take the piss. If we got together in a photo we would look like rejects from a Munsters auditions.

    If anyone deserves it, it's whoever in UKIP thought this was a good idea, worthwhile or would move any dial. "I was pro EU, until I saw that kid in a Nigel T-shirt".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 41,640
    edited October 2015
    Indigo said:

    I'm young(ish) middle-class and a graduate. And they don't come much more Leave than me.

    Frankly, I think this is social and about class-signalling: polls like this will reinforce that, because the affluent, well-educated and young won't want to be associated with those 'ignorant bigoted plebs who have their heads stuck in the past'.

    This will be like the GE all over again. People will tell pollsters they are nice left-leaning liberal progressives (IN) and then when in the polling booth vote Tory (OUT).
    Except several polls have already shown Out ahead, In has not had consistent leads and Canada has just voted their Tories out in favour of their Liberals even exceeding what final polls showed. Graduates and the Middle Class tend to vote more than non graduates and the working class and unemployed and they are for In this offsetting the Out lead with pensioners. Finally Cameron will of course likely be leading the In campaign Farage the Out campaign and who won the general election?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Only 6 people were named Nigel last year according to the ONS.

    It's an extinction level event.

    While not claiming to have a great inside track on younger generations generally, I am pretty confident that my kids - aged seventeen to 24 - would not be seen dead in T-shirts proclaiming "Nigel Says No".

    Especially if they were called Nigel. Or had a boyfriend called Nigel!

    Personally I’ve had a strong antipathy for the name ever since a girl I was very fond of left me for someone of that name.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 8,197

    Only 6 people were named Nigel last year according to the ONS.

    It's an extinction level event.

    While not claiming to have a great inside track on younger generations generally, I am pretty confident that my kids - aged seventeen to 24 - would not be seen dead in T-shirts proclaiming "Nigel Says No".

    Especially if they were called Nigel. Or had a boyfriend called Nigel!

    Personally I’ve had a strong antipathy for the name ever since a girl I was very fond of left me for someone of that name.
    Were they born in the Thanet area and do they wear pinstripe babygrows? We need to know.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 4,409
    I wonder if some of the reason for the age split is that the young weren't around when we had the last referendum on Europe. All the lies that were told with a straight face ... this doesn't mean ever closer union .... the UK government remains supreme.

    Dr Palmer is honest and admits that the status quo isn't the aim and never was. I'd be happy if the others Inners were honest and campaigned on their real aims. I don't like being taken for a fool and that's why I'll probably vote Out.

    Once bitten ...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,189
    Mr. Jonathan, quite. I photograph as badly as Ed Miliband, although I do tend to look like a serial killer rather than the most awkward man in the world.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    As it's Back To The Future Day, if you've got Netflix and a nerdy side - I watched a rather entertaining docu last night on British games development. Everything from typing in the code from a magazine, Sinclair/Vic/Amigas to present date. It's called Bedrooms to Billionaires IIRC.

    It brought back a lot of vintage memories.
  • Lets go Mets!!!!

    There's hope for we spurs fans....

    Surely Spurs are the Cubs.

    In the sense I've supported both for well over 2 decades and rarely seen them win anything! [That win over Anderlecht being the highest for me]

    I was at WHL for the second leg, standing on the Shelf. The gates were closed an hour before kick-off. When Roberts equalised I lost my shoes in the surge forward from the crowd. And I can still see Tony Parks leaping to his right to save that final penalty as we all sang "There's Only One Danny Thomas". I walked home in my socks in the rain having missed the last bus. What a night.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,189
    edited October 2015
    Miss Plato, speaking of that, in 2 days it's the date the bombs fell in Fallout, bringing nuclear devastation to the world.

    Edited extra bit: Fallout Day will, understandably, get far less media attention. But Fallout 4, out next month, will sell a huge number of copies.
  • Lets go Mets!!!!

    There's hope for we spurs fans....

    Surely Spurs are the Cubs.

    In the sense I've supported both for well over 2 decades and rarely seen them win anything! [That win over Anderlecht being the highest for me]

    I was at WHL for the second leg, standing on the Shelf. The gates were closed an hour before kick-off. When Roberts equalised I lost my shoes in the surge forward from the crowd. And I can still see Tony Parks leaping to his right to save that final penalty as we all sang "There's Only One Danny Thomas". I walked home in my socks in the rain having missed the last bus. What a night.

    Wow...

    I was a 'little' younger and at home nr Cheshunt watching it - I ran around the house screaming and screaming & in tears after the save - the family thought I was having a seizure.

    Roberts was my 'first' favourite Spurs player. Only Bale rated higher.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 44,326
    October 21st 2015.

    Cubs win world series D: ?!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,189
    Mr. Pulpstar, if they don't, I blame Biff Tannen[sp].
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    For all Tom Watson Fans - you can see the full HASC hearing here at 14:15 today.

    http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/f2477613-2e82-4de3-b7b1-2360ca8712ca

    Subject: The Investigation into the late Lord Brittan
    Witnesses: Tom Watson MP
    Witnesses: Alison Saunders, Director of Public Prosecutions
    Witnesses: Assistant Commissioner Patricia Gallan, and Deputy Assistant Commissioner Steve Rodhouse, Metropolitan Police
  • Miss Plato, speaking of that, in 2 days it's the date the bombs fell in Fallout, bringing nuclear devastation to the world.

    Edited extra bit: Fallout Day will, understandably, get far less media attention. But Fallout 4, out next month, will sell a huge number of copies.

    Today is and always will be Trafalgar Day.

    Monday was Zama day.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,189
    Mr. Eagles, all the cool things happen in October. [Except Halloween, of course].

    Dr. Prasannan pointed out the Zama date on Monday.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    He was an excellent thug in BTTF 1.

    Mr. Pulpstar, if they don't, I blame Biff Tannen[sp].

  • Mr. Eagles, all the cool things happen in October. [Except Halloween, of course].

    Dr. Prasannan pointed out the Zama date on Monday.

    Next Monday is Agincourt Day.

    October is a fantabolous day for an Englishman who likes to annoy the French.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,799
    Jonathan said:

    I think you're all being a bit mean to take the piss. If we got together in a photo we would look like rejects from a Munsters auditions.

    If anyone deserves it, it's whoever in UKIP thought this was a good idea, worthwhile or would move any dial. "I was pro EU, until I saw that kid in a Nigel T-shirt".

    The worrying one is the guy at the back, second from the left. It may be unfortunate shadow under his nose, and be purely coincidental that his hair falls like Adolf's, but...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,189
    edited October 2015
    Mr. Eagles, I'll try and remember that and tweet a link to this early 2015 post I wrote (2015 also being the anniversary of Waterloo):
    http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/2015-year-of-two-anniversaries.html

    Edited extra bit: incidentally, I hope to put up a piece later today which may be of great interest to those who have a completed story in the sci-fi/fantasy [broad definition] genre.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    I'm young(ish) middle-class and a graduate. And they don't come much more Leave than me.

    Frankly, I think this is social and about class-signalling: polls like this will reinforce that, because the affluent, well-educated and young won't want to be associated with those 'ignorant bigoted plebs who have their heads stuck in the past'.

    Yep, if you're young and smart you want to stay IN, if you're old and stupid and living in the past you want OUT.

    That's the campaign strapline sorted for IN

  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    More popcorn for Watson http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/tom-watson/11943722/Detective-to-tell-of-his-anger-over-Tom-Watsons-meddling-in-VIP-sex-abuse-case.html
    A senior detective is expected to reveal to MPs his fury at being “undermined” by Tom Watson, Labour’s deputy leader, over a VIP sex abuse investigation.

    “Paul Settle is very angry about this. He is keen to go along to the Commons committee and give evidence. He feels undermined by Watson’s letter to the DPP.”
  • Mr. Eagles, I'll try and remember that and tweet a link to this early 2015 post I wrote (2015 also being the anniversary of Waterloo):
    http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/2015-year-of-two-anniversaries.html

    Edited extra bit: incidentally, I hope to put up a piece later today which may be of great interest to those who have a completed story in the sci-fi/fantasy [broad definition] genre.

    I wrote a piece years ago saying that Waterloo in terms of our thrashings of the French was Primus inter pares simply because ABBA did a song about it.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,189
    Mr. 63, sarcasm?

    If In try and say "We're intelligent. Are you intelligent? Because if you disagree with us, you're stupid." that will not go well for them.

    [I still think In will win, mind].
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    While not claiming to have a great inside track on younger generations generally, I am pretty confident that my kids - aged seventeen to 24 - would not be seen dead in T-shirts proclaiming "Nigel Says No".

    Would they wear "Dave says IN"?

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,267
    edited October 2015

    For all Tom Watson Fans - you can see the full HASC hearing here at 14:15 today.

    http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/f2477613-2e82-4de3-b7b1-2360ca8712ca


    Subject: The Investigation into the late Lord Brittan
    Witnesses: Tom Watson MP
    Witnesses: Alison Saunders, Director of Public Prosecutions
    Witnesses: Assistant Commissioner Patricia Gallan, and Deputy Assistant Commissioner Steve Rodhouse, Metropolitan Police
    Very interesting but I’ve a Wine Tasting Club meeting this afternoon.

    Choice, choices!
  • On topic I'm detecting a pattern.

    The more educated you are the less supportive you are of leaving.

    A while back a study showed UKIPers had the lowest IQ save for the BNPers.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2008/nov/03/greenpolitics-liberaldemocrats

    :lol:
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Lets go Mets!!!!

    There's hope for we spurs fans....

    Surely Spurs are the Cubs.

    In the sense I've supported both for well over 2 decades and rarely seen them win anything! [That win over Anderlecht being the highest for me]

    I was at WHL for the second leg, standing on the Shelf. The gates were closed an hour before kick-off. When Roberts equalised I lost my shoes in the surge forward from the crowd. And I can still see Tony Parks leaping to his right to save that final penalty as we all sang "There's Only One Danny Thomas". I walked home in my socks in the rain having missed the last bus. What a night.

    Wow...

    I was a 'little' younger and at home nr Cheshunt watching it - I ran around the house screaming and screaming & in tears after the save - the family thought I was having a seizure.

    Roberts was my 'first' favourite Spurs player. Only Bale rated higher.
    Robbo has rejoined Spurs but changed his name to Eric Dier
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    This is rather fun

    "Frankly we didn't bother." Great piece by @shelleylphelps on whips and Jeremy Corbyn: https://t.co/8CbercNZMF https://t.co/UFoMB7wwvI
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Mr. 63, sarcasm?

    If In try and say "We're intelligent. Are you intelligent? Because if you disagree with us, you're stupid." that will not go well for them.

    [I still think In will win, mind].

    Partly sarcasm Mr Morris, the INNNERS do appear to be very sanctimonious.

    I'm so keen for us to leave that I can't make a rational prediction, no doubt IN is favourite but people talk about direction of travel, the momentum is definitely with OUT.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,189
    Mr. Eagles, lots of 'clever' people also wanted to join the euro.

    And IQ doesn't measure intelligence.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    If you wait a few hours - they normally have them on replay!

    #SoNerdy

    For all Tom Watson Fans - you can see the full HASC hearing here at 14:15 today.

    http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/f2477613-2e82-4de3-b7b1-2360ca8712ca


    Subject: The Investigation into the late Lord Brittan
    Witnesses: Tom Watson MP
    Witnesses: Alison Saunders, Director of Public Prosecutions
    Witnesses: Assistant Commissioner Patricia Gallan, and Deputy Assistant Commissioner Steve Rodhouse, Metropolitan Police
    Very interesting but I’ve a Wine Tasting Club meeting this afternoon.

    Choice, choices!

  • Mr. Eagles, lots of 'clever' people also wanted to join the euro.

    And IQ doesn't measure intelligence.

    I know. Hence the smiley. Remain aren't going to win if they call their opponents stupid.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,189
    Mr. Eagles, disagree. The Martin Freeman PPB approach will help Out, but In will need a more significant cock-up than that to give Out a serious chance.

    If Out are serious, they need to recruit Blair and Miliband (for the In campaign), whilst locking Farage in a shed for the next few years.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 5,521
    edited October 2015

    More popcorn for Watson http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/tom-watson/11943722/Detective-to-tell-of-his-anger-over-Tom-Watsons-meddling-in-VIP-sex-abuse-case.html

    A senior detective is expected to reveal to MPs his fury at being “undermined” by Tom Watson, Labour’s deputy leader, over a VIP sex abuse investigation.

    “Paul Settle is very angry about this. He is keen to go along to the Commons committee and give evidence. He feels undermined by Watson’s letter to the DPP.”
    About Tom Watson;-

    Position: Deputy Leader of the Labour Party

    Age: 48

    Constituency: West Bromwich East

    MP since: 2001


    "There’s power in our Labour movement that’s centuries old and millions strong; and it will never die. We can mend what is broken in our country. And we will"

    "and it will never die.".......... Is he related to Sion Simon


    http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Mr. Eagles, disagree. The Martin Freeman PPB approach will help Out, but In will need a more significant cock-up than that to give Out a serious chance.

    If Out are serious, they need to recruit Blair and Miliband (for the In campaign), whilst locking Farage in a shed for the next few years.

    I'm afraid that even kippers are coming round to that conclusion

  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    On topic I'm detecting a pattern.

    The more educated you are the less supportive you are of leaving.

    A while back a study showed UKIPers had the lowest IQ save for the BNPers.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2008/nov/03/greenpolitics-liberaldemocrats

    :lol:

    Rather worringly a huge number of academics embraced communism. We all know how that worked out...
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Mr. Eagles, lots of 'clever' people also wanted to join the euro.

    And IQ doesn't measure intelligence.

    I know. Hence the smiley. Remain aren't going to win if they call their opponents stupid.
    Though the Outers seem to believe that they can win by insulting the other side.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,367

    As it's Back To The Future Day, if you've got Netflix and a nerdy side - I watched a rather entertaining docu last night on British games development. Everything from typing in the code from a magazine, Sinclair/Vic/Amigas to present date. It's called Bedrooms to Billionaires IIRC.

    It brought back a lot of vintage memories.

    Where was it on? I think my son would find that really interesting.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 13,436
    edited October 2015
    I wonder whether the education divide may neuter the age divide somewhat?

    I'm under 35 (just) but as far as I know every graduate from my classes that I'm still in touch with votes every time. When I was at uni in 2001 (aged 19) everyone from my Halls of Residence I spoke to about it said they voted.

    Anecdotally I expect it is the uneducated youngsters who don't vote. So if Remain has the educated young then that could be the young that do turn out to vote.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,267
    MP_SE said:

    On topic I'm detecting a pattern.

    The more educated you are the less supportive you are of leaving.

    A while back a study showed UKIPers had the lowest IQ save for the BNPers.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2008/nov/03/greenpolitics-liberaldemocrats

    :lol:

    Rather worringly a huge number of academics embraced communism. We all know how that worked out...
    There is a joke about professors.

    Q What do professors come from the West?


    A. Because the Bible says the Wise men came from the East!
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 4,409
    In have the advantage of being associated with young, adventurous and modern. Out have the advantage that the EU bureaucrats are anything but and won't keep quiet.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Great clip of Film 85

    No hoverboards or flying cars? Oh well. Here's what critic Barry Norman made of the original #BackToTheFuture film
    https://t.co/IyYyQWSbcL
  • isamisam Posts: 24,352

    Mr. Eagles, lots of 'clever' people also wanted to join the euro.

    And IQ doesn't measure intelligence.

    Most PBers still had hair when that poll was taken... Ukips IQ has risen significantly since then ;)
  • isamisam Posts: 24,352
    Jonathan said:

    I think you're all being a bit mean to take the piss. If we got together in a photo we would look like rejects from a Munsters auditions.

    If anyone deserves it, it's whoever in UKIP thought this was a good idea, worthwhile or would move any dial. "I was pro EU, until I saw that kid in a Nigel T-shirt".

    'If we got together in a photo we would look like rejects from a Munsters auditions'

    You've seen this photo then

    http://postimg.org/image/n7h0yoaht/
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    It's under Documentaries on Netflix - black/rainbow coloured cover.
    DavidL said:

    As it's Back To The Future Day, if you've got Netflix and a nerdy side - I watched a rather entertaining docu last night on British games development. Everything from typing in the code from a magazine, Sinclair/Vic/Amigas to present date. It's called Bedrooms to Billionaires IIRC.

    It brought back a lot of vintage memories.

    Where was it on? I think my son would find that really interesting.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,189
    Mr. Isam, some of us are endowed with such commitment to F1, our very form becomes more aerodynamic.

    Besides, my brain is too busy thinking important thoughts to waste energy maintaining a roof garden*.

    *Women, of course, are capable of multi-tasking and therefore both thinking and having fine heads of hair at the same time.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Golly.
    Thousands of journalists at the BBC to have compulsory lessons in EU anti-bias to make sure Corporation's coverage of the referendum remains impartial

    All journalists will have training after accusations it shows left-wing bias
    Dramas and comedians must also abide impartiality rules for referendum
    Even senior journalists from Today and Breakfast must complete training
    Head of BBC News admitted the 2017 referendum will 'test perceptions'


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3282172/Thousands-journalists-BBC-compulsory-lessons-EU-anti-bias-make-sure-Corporation-s-coverage-referendum-remains-impartial.html#ixzz3pBiRknjA
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,367

    It's under Documentaries on Netflix - black/rainbow coloured cover.

    DavidL said:

    As it's Back To The Future Day, if you've got Netflix and a nerdy side - I watched a rather entertaining docu last night on British games development. Everything from typing in the code from a magazine, Sinclair/Vic/Amigas to present date. It's called Bedrooms to Billionaires IIRC.

    It brought back a lot of vintage memories.

    Where was it on? I think my son would find that really interesting.
    Thanks. I think my daughter has a Netflix account so we will have a look tonight.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,189
    Miss Plato, could be pre-emptive. Any future accusation of bias can be answered with "Look at the anti-bias re-education scheme we have".
  • RogerRoger Posts: 9,208
    "In general the younger and more middle class you are the greater the chance that you’ll be in the remain camp. Another big divider is education with graduates far more likely to want to stay in the EU. "



    So it's 'OLD THICKOS FOR OUT'!. Needs a bit of polishing but there's a logo in there somewhere......
  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    edited October 2015

    Miss Plato, could be pre-emptive. Any future accusation of bias can be answered with "Look at the anti-bias re-education scheme we have".

    Fear not.

    The Daily Wail has already committed a huge budget to winkling out the left-wing bias in the Beeb's anti-left-wing bias programme...
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Well this sort of commentary will certainly reinforce the existing prejudices of the smug lefties and wets who make up the core of EU supporters in the UK. Not much value beyond that though.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 13,436
    edited October 2015
    I don't think either campaign should argue that its "old thickos for out", but if its true its relevant to understand from a betting perspective.

    We all understand that the old are more likely to turnout and we need to factor that into predictions.

    But are the less educated less likely to turnout? Anecdotally I suspect yes absolutely, which is what is somewhat behind "Lazy Labour" I suspect as I imagine the young, uneducated etc are more likely to Labour supporters too.

    If so it is important to understand if you want to make accurate predictions - and making accurate predictions is the key to betting.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    There was some discussion about the KKK docu on the last thread, if that's the recent one where they discuss laundry, it's comically unthreatening. I did however watch a Real Prison Breaks on PickTV about HMP Maze escape by the IRA.

    It was truly chilling - intv with key players inside the H Block - how they conducted it, their language, justifications, dead fish eyes look. I felt genuine loathing for them/made a big impression. The Corbynista apologism is just even more repellent.

    If you're unfamiliar with it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maze_Prison_escape

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,267
    runnymede said:

    Well this sort of commentary will certainly reinforce the existing prejudices of the smug lefties and wets who make up the core of EU supporters in the UK. Not much value beyond that though.

    What was that about prejudices?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,189
    Mr. Thompson, we also need to consider which side might be likelier to be shy.

    There's the "Disagree with us and you're stupid" possibility on one side and the "Disagree with us and you're unpatriotic" on the other [although I was mildly amused Rose et al. tried to point Out as unpatriotic, so maybe that'll be the same for both sides].
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    edited October 2015

    I don't think either campaign should argue that its "old thickos for out", but if its true its relevant to understand from a betting perspective.

    We all understand that the old are more likely to turnout and we need to factor that into predictions.

    But are the less educated less likely to turnout? Anecdotally I suspect yes absolutely, which is what is somewhat behind "Lazy Labour" I suspect as I imagine the young, uneducated etc are more likely to Labour supporters too.

    If so it is important to understand if you want to make accurate predictions - and making accurate predictions is the key to betting.

    I can't see how OUT will refer to their supporters as "old thickos"

    I'm curious to see how Labour voters will vote when Dave declares his hand as IN, I'm convinced tribalism will prevail and they'll want to give him a bloody nose.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,189
    Mr. 63, disagree. Corbyn will be for In. That means his true believers will also be for In. Blairites who might want to damage Corbyn and Cameron will have one eye on their leadership prospects, not to mention they're spineless cowards, so even if they want to be for Out, it's unlikely.

    Old Labour sorts who are socially conservative are probably most likely to be for Out, but many of those jumped ship to UKIP when Miliband was leader.

    It may be that events drive things, especially migration. Speaking of which, 140 or so have landed at a British base in Cyprus.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34590635
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,267

    I don't think either campaign should argue that its "old thickos for out", but if its true its relevant to understand from a betting perspective.

    We all understand that the old are more likely to turnout and we need to factor that into predictions.

    But are the less educated less likely to turnout? Anecdotally I suspect yes absolutely, which is what is somewhat behind "Lazy Labour" I suspect as I imagine the young, uneducated etc are more likely to Labour supporters too.

    If so it is important to understand if you want to make accurate predictions - and making accurate predictions is the key to betting.

    I can't see how OUT will refer to their supporters as "old thickos"

    I'm curious to see how Labour voters will vote when Dave declares his hand as IN, I'm convinced tribalism will prevail and they'll want to give him a bloody nose.

    As happened with Labour voters and Nick Clegg over AV.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 7,366
    Only a really second rate thinker (and that's being generous) would draw satisfaction from being in the 'got a degree innit' category of some spurious poll.

    I am confident that leaving the EU is the right thing to do based on my assessment of the ample available evidence. I'm delighted that so many of Britain's blue collar workers share my view, but it doesn't influence me either way.
  • Mark Carney is going to make an intervention on the Brexit debate

    I reckon that might swing a not an insignificant amount of voters depending on what he says.

    Lest we forget his contribution during the Indyref
  • Mr. Thompson, we also need to consider which side might be likelier to be shy.

    There's the "Disagree with us and you're stupid" possibility on one side and the "Disagree with us and you're unpatriotic" on the other [although I was mildly amused Rose et al. tried to point Out as unpatriotic, so maybe that'll be the same for both sides].

    Was shyness a factor in this years polling debacle? I thought it had been determined it was laziness that was the error rather than shyness.

    My guess is that like in Scotland last year "disagree with us and you're unpatriotic" will be louder.

    Not that people who are supporting out are shy of referring to their opponents as being stupid for disagreeing - but that extends to all views on all elections so I suspect is somewhat neutral and the public are more immune to that. Whereas barring Scotland, Northern Ireland, Corbyn and Foot allegations of being unpatriotic are not normal.
  • Mr. Eagles, disagree. The Martin Freeman PPB approach will help Out, but In will need a more significant cock-up than that to give Out a serious chance.

    If Out are serious, they need to recruit Blair and Miliband (for the In campaign), whilst locking Farage in a shed for the next few years.

    I agree with this, Farage is way too divisive and an easy target for the Remain mob.

    Eagles comment is I hope sarcasm, if not then it sums up the smug attitude of the likes of Blair and Mandelson. That would be great news for Out, as no-one trusts smug liars like those two.

    Incidentally, why does every Remain scare story begin with a three? Three million jobs, £3,000 per household etc.

    I think Out should counteract that with FREE.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 36,517
    @dizzy_thinks: https://t.co/3LNL8g2yzW feel better now I got that off my chest
  • Only a really second rate thinker (and that's being generous) would draw satisfaction from being in the 'got a degree innit' category of some spurious poll.

    I am confident that leaving the EU is the right thing to do based on my assessment of the ample available evidence. I'm delighted that so many of Britain's blue collar workers share my view, but it doesn't influence me either way.

    Do tell us the last time your assessment (of anything) was misguided. We're all agog...

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,189
    Mr. Eagles, today? Got a time?

    Mr. Thompson, I wonder if we could see weird things in Scotland. SNP types might vote Out to try and trigger Referendum 2: Refer Harder, and unionists might vote In to stop that. Northern Ireland should vote In as a potential Scottish vote (and leaving the EU whilst the Republic remains) could be problematic.
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