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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn had Cameron struggling on tax credits at PMQs – but

SystemSystem Posts: 5,841
edited October 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn had Cameron struggling on tax credits at PMQs – but then changed the subject

Overall Corbyn is doing a better job at PMQs than many of his detractors predicted. Because it is so difficult for oppositions to make the political weather this weekly event is a very valuable peg to get media coverage and mustn’t be wasted.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • I'm delighted....

    word of the day I fear.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Nice Point of Order from Edward Leigh about HoL remembering their place when it comes to passing finance related Bills.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Oh dear me "Scotland Yard tried to stop the officer who originally cleared Leon Brittan of rape from giving evidence at a parliamentary committee." http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article4591625.ece
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,822
    It's harder for Jeremy Corbyn than for most Opposition leaders because his own party don't make any noise for him to guide him when he's doing well. They made more noise for Anna Turley when she spoke about the steel crisis.

    So he's having to make decisions about how to follow up in the dark as to how he is doing.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    I didn't see Cameron struggling at all.. he seems very comfortable with the way it is going..
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Today's PmQs sounded like political viagra.

    The commentariat, opposition MPs, lorships and assorted other high rpofile handwringers thought they could sway government policy on tax credit cuts.

    No. This is not coalition. The tories won. The cuts are going ahead whether it costs the tories power or not.

    Suck it up.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 19,974
    Some anti-nuclear idiot on DP saying that renewables are the way to go, as the wind always blows in the UK, and the sun always shines above the clouds.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited October 2015
    @Morris_Dancer

    Come, come Morris. LOTR was a far superior book to the Silmarilion, which to my mind reads like a university theses.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,189
    Mr. K, must disagree. In The Silmarillion, far fewer words are used to describe far more things.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Corbyn had Cameron struggling on tax credits at PMQs? No he didn't! Corby was floundering from the start and never improved.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,311
    edited October 2015
    The problem with the opposition's approach is that it is based on the assumption that it is self-evident that the government ought to disagree with its own policy. So the gist is:

    'You're cutting tax credits'

    'Yes we are'

    'But, you're cutting tax credits!'

    'Yes we are. That's the idea.'

    That really doesn't get Labour anywhere.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 36,517

    'But, you're cutting tax credits!'

    'Yes we are. That's the idea.'

    'We are going to replace the system of tax credits that entrenched poverty for 20 years with a new system of higher wages and lower taxes.'

    'But, you're cutting tax credits!'

    And round and round they go again...
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 8,408
    edited October 2015
    O/T Andy Verity is a muppet, once R5 personal finance talking mouth he's now 'economics'....

    I love this piece on the decent borrowing figures - cod journalist style that he uses on the radio posing a question to say 'wrong' and somehow making this seem bad news..

    "September's public sector finances look encouraging at first sight".

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34591583


    I believe this is Labour policy to 'grow the economy' not cut spending... we're all reds now.

  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    That's a pretty good summary of it.

    The problem with the opposition's approach is that it is based on the assumption that it is self-evident that the government ought to disagree with its own policy. So the gist is:

    'You're cutting tax credits'

    'Yes we are'

    'But, you're cutting tax credits!'

    'Yes we are. That's the idea.'

    That really doesn't get Labour anywhere.

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''And round and round they go again... ''

    They've even resorted to

    'but it'll lose you the next election, its your poll tax moment'
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Labour is claiming there is more poverty and therefore Tax Credits are needed..They have been around for some time now and don't seem to be working...so lets keep them..duh
  • isamisam Posts: 24,352
    edited October 2015
    The Garry Monk story is a bit odd... Why would the mirror report that with such confidence? That said, 40/1 seems big even without the gossip



  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    And for HASC fans - you can watch Watson & Met at 1415 http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/f2477613-2e82-4de3-b7b1-2360ca8712ca
  • O/T Andy Verity is a muppet, once R5 personal finance talking mouth he's now 'economics'....

    I love this piece on the decent borrowing figures - cod journalist style that he uses on the radio posing a question to say 'wrong' and somehow making this seem bad news..

    "September's public sector finances look encouraging at first sight".

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34591583


    I believe this is Labour policy to 'grow the economy' not cut spending... we're all reds now.

    It is the same BBC worldview that they had on unemployment figures.

    They are down, but trend wont continue. (It did)
    They are down, but it is all part-time jobs. (Shown not to be true)
    They are down, but they are all poorly paid. (Again shown not to be be true)
    Figure must be must...must be...please their must be something bad about what is happening...
  • The problem with the opposition's approach is that it is based on the assumption that it is self-evident that the government ought to disagree with its own policy. So the gist is:

    'You're cutting tax credits'

    'Yes we are'

    'But, you're cutting tax credits!'

    'Yes we are. That's the idea.'

    That really doesn't get Labour anywhere.

    Rerun of the GE tactics...BUT BUT you are going to make big cuts. Errhh yes....BUT BUT thats terrible....Errhh we don't want to, but massive deficit and we are only rolling the state back to size it was 10 years ago, plus polling shows the public are generally supportive.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    http://order-order.com/2015/10/20/corbyn-hires-seumas-milne-as-comms-chief/

    Jeremy Corbyn has sensationally appointed Seumas Milne as his new Director of Strategic Communications. Winchester College and Oxford-educated PPEist Milne, a former Stalinist, is renowned for his roll call of remarkable controversial quotes.

    So a real communist joins Corbyn's gang. Quell surprise!.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I can't stand Andy Verity - he's all self-righteous opinon and few facts. He's like Sam Delany post Heat magazine. Why the latter comments on Sky reviews is beyond me. I just hear his gobby overtalking manner and switch off.

    O/T Andy Verity is a muppet, once R5 personal finance talking mouth he's now 'economics'....

    I love this piece on the decent borrowing figures - cod journalist style that he uses on the radio posing a question to say 'wrong' and somehow making this seem bad news..

    "September's public sector finances look encouraging at first sight".

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34591583


    I believe this is Labour policy to 'grow the economy' not cut spending... we're all reds now.

    It is the same BBC worldview that they had on unemployment figures.

    They are down, but trend wont continue. (It did)
    They are down, but it is all part-time jobs. (Shown not to be true)
    They are down, but they are all poorly paid. (Again shown not to be be true)
    Figure must be must...must be...please their must be something bad about what is happening...
  • And for HASC fans - you can watch Watson & Met at 1415 http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/f2477613-2e82-4de3-b7b1-2360ca8712ca

    Gets popcorn out...
  • I think regarding Fantasy the issue a lot of authors have is as follows:

    1) As they are making up a world, they want to make detailed notes of what all the countries and places there are like
    2) They then want to visit all these places
    3) This means lots of dull on the road sequences going from A to B
    4) When they get to each place they meet some locals who may then get their own subplots

    All this leads to serious bloat

    Regarding Game of Thrones, I think most of the books could easily be cut by a third. The TV does a much better job of this particularly with cutting boring A to B sequences.

    If I was writing fantasy, I would do it the other way round. First start with the plot and the main subplots. Then invent some extra detail to give it some colour. Draw the map last (I would also recommend making places closer together).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 44,328

    and the sun always shines above the clouds.

    Solar PVs still generate even in cloudy weather :D. Obviously not at night, though ;)
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    The BBC are reporting that migrant arrivals in Greece are now up to 7,000 a day, the highest number so far. Once you consider the other routes via Italy/Spain, Germany could well have five million migrants before this crisis is over.
  • FAO the people that chase the monthly borrowing figures.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34591583

    This is why that is silly.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,857
    taffys said:

    Today's PmQs sounded like political viagra.

    The commentariat, opposition MPs, lorships and assorted other high rpofile handwringers thought they could sway government policy on tax credit cuts.

    No. This is not coalition. The tories won. The cuts are going ahead whether it costs the tories power or not.

    Suck it up.

    A sneaky part of me wishes to see some misery heaped upon low paid workers in the next few years.

    No pain, no gains (for Labour)

    But I am too nice for that and don't really want any more suffering for the least well off.

    After all I am not a PB Tory
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 20,589
    JEO said:

    The BBC are reporting that migrant arrivals in Greece are now up to 7,000 a day, the highest number so far. Once you consider the other routes via Italy/Spain, Germany could well have five million migrants before this crisis is over.

    5m migrants, mainly Muslim, many of whom might prefer to move on to the UK in time, given that the only foreign language of them know is English.

    This crisis is going to dominate our discourse for the next decade. We could see neo-Fascists in power by the mid 2020s, in several EU nations.
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,574

    I didn't see Cameron struggling at all.. he seems very comfortable with the way it is going..

    Indeed - the only stumbling I saw was from Corbyn. One senses the 'village creep' into some of the headers is getting worse.
  • I think its quite clear that OGH wants these tax credit changes reversing and wants it to be a big deal. So today Cameron was struggling and a few days ago Tim Montgomerie writing against Cameron was serious pressure (rather than routine).

    I missed PMQ's but from the reading here it doesn't sound like Cameron struggled is universal opinion.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''A sneaky part of me wishes to see some misery heaped upon low paid workers in the next few years.''

    Call me cynical but I don't think labour's attacks are borne of concern for 'the poor'. Not from the party that brought you the 10p tax.

    Labour knows what Osborne is doing. Taking away now to give back when the budget is balanced. With a majority and a surplus the tories will be able slash all kinds of taxes that affect the low paid, but would never be countenanced in North London.
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Yes, the unmistakable sight of a hobby horse cantering by
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 31,020

    I think regarding Fantasy the issue a lot of authors have is as follows:

    1) As they are making up a world, they want to make detailed notes of what all the countries and places there are like
    2) They then want to visit all these places
    3) This means lots of dull on the road sequences going from A to B
    4) When they get to each place they meet some locals who may then get their own subplots

    All this leads to serious bloat

    Regarding Game of Thrones, I think most of the books could easily be cut by a third. The TV does a much better job of this particularly with cutting boring A to B sequences.

    If I was writing fantasy, I would do it the other way round. First start with the plot and the main subplots. Then invent some extra detail to give it some colour. Draw the map last (I would also recommend making places closer together).

    I'd suggest people save visiting other places in the world for separate books - have the core events of the book take place in a relatively short time, in a concentrated area (even if that's a large area, eg one nation, principally), and perhaps you can leave out the 'travelling places' thing (which my effort certainly suffers from, as I was trying to be spiritually akin to the Wheel of Time) to inbetween books, while still getting to explore the new major location and characters. Otherwise as you say you need either to do the equivalent of a montage, or come up with things happening along the way to justify why it is happening (besides merely fleshing out the world). Videogames do something similar sometimes, like Elder Scrolls or Dragon Age, in the same world but focusing on different areas in new installments.

    I feel Scott Lynch managed this pretty well certainly in the first two Gentleman Bastard books (not read third yet). More so the first than the second, but the story and characters were centrepiece, and the cities themselves essentially characters in their own rights, and the larger world was fleshed out in small amounts, without the need for lengthy travelogues.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 36,517
    @IanDunt: Has George Osborne lured the House of Lords into a trap? https://t.co/H1AD1SPZ60
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    taffys said:

    Today's PmQs sounded like political viagra.

    The commentariat, opposition MPs, lorships and assorted other high rpofile handwringers thought they could sway government policy on tax credit cuts.

    No. This is not coalition. The tories won. The cuts are going ahead whether it costs the tories power or not.

    Suck it up.

    A sneaky part of me wishes to see some misery heaped upon low paid workers in the next few years.

    No pain, no gains (for Labour)

    But I am too nice for that and don't really want any more suffering for the least well off.

    After all I am not a PB Tory
    Are you also hoping for a cold winter and extra deaths in the NHS?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''So today Cameron was struggling and a few days ago Tim Montgomerie writing against Cameron was serious pressure (rather than routine).''

    If I was David Cameron I would be very concerned if Tim Montgomerie agreed with anythng I did. If it was Montgomerie and Warsi agreeing with me I would know I had got it wrong.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,857
    watford30 said:

    taffys said:

    Today's PmQs sounded like political viagra.

    The commentariat, opposition MPs, lorships and assorted other high rpofile handwringers thought they could sway government policy on tax credit cuts.

    No. This is not coalition. The tories won. The cuts are going ahead whether it costs the tories power or not.

    Suck it up.

    A sneaky part of me wishes to see some misery heaped upon low paid workers in the next few years.

    No pain, no gains (for Labour)

    But I am too nice for that and don't really want any more suffering for the least well off.

    After all I am not a PB Tory
    Are you also hoping for extra deaths in the NHS?
    Fearing but certainly not hoping for.
  • A lot of SNP questions at PMQs today - maybe just the freak of the draw.
    I agree with OGH that Cameron was briefly on the ropes. A few more years of this and he will go early IMHO.
  • kle4 said:

    I think regarding Fantasy the issue a lot of authors have is as follows:

    1) As they are making up a world, they want to make detailed notes of what all the countries and places there are like
    2) They then want to visit all these places
    3) This means lots of dull on the road sequences going from A to B
    4) When they get to each place they meet some locals who may then get their own subplots

    All this leads to serious bloat

    Regarding Game of Thrones, I think most of the books could easily be cut by a third. The TV does a much better job of this particularly with cutting boring A to B sequences.

    If I was writing fantasy, I would do it the other way round. First start with the plot and the main subplots. Then invent some extra detail to give it some colour. Draw the map last (I would also recommend making places closer together).

    I'd suggest people save visiting other places in the world for separate books - have the core events of the book take place in a relatively short time, in a concentrated area (even if that's a large area, eg one nation, principally), and perhaps you can leave out the 'travelling places' thing (which my effort certainly suffers from, as I was trying to be spiritually akin to the Wheel of Time) to inbetween books, while still getting to explore the new major location and characters. Otherwise as you say you need either to do the equivalent of a montage, or come up with things happening along the way to justify why it is happening (besides merely fleshing out the world). Videogames do something similar sometimes, like Elder Scrolls or Dragon Age, in the same world but focusing on different areas in new installments.

    I feel Scott Lynch managed this pretty well certainly in the first two Gentleman Bastard books (not read third yet). More so the first than the second, but the story and characters were centrepiece, and the cities themselves essentially characters in their own rights, and the larger world was fleshed out in small amounts, without the need for lengthy travelogues.
    David Eddings was the first fantasy author I read and he did this quite well with the West and East.

    The Belgariad took part in the western section of the world (still a relatively spread out section with multiple nations) while alluding to other parts of the world. The Malloreon then took place largely in the area undiscovered in the first series. This was repeated in The Elenium taking part in the West and The Tamuli expanding to the East.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 4,513
    Scott_P said:

    @IanDunt: Has George Osborne lured the House of Lords into a trap? https://t.co/H1AD1SPZ60

    That point was first made by me in a post four days ago when I suggested that this was a plot to undermine the Lords.

  • @britainelects: Michael Meacher (MP, Oldham West & Royton) has sadly passed away. https://t.co/T921whAZZz
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''That point was first made by me in a post four days ago when I suggested that this was a plot to undermine the Lords. ''

    Surely you mean ''assert the primacy of the democratically elected commons....''
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 19,974
    Pulpstar said:

    and the sun always shines above the clouds.

    Solar PVs still generate even in cloudy weather :D. Obviously not at night, though ;)
    The point is they generate just a fraction of their rated power in cloudy weather - 10-20% IIRC.

    ISTR one solar plant did generate power at night - a Spanish plant was cheating: they had some diesel generators on site, and were using these cheaper sources to generate extra power that could be sold as more expensive renewable energy. They got caught out when they started doing it at night ...

    (As opposed to the Andasol solar plant, which can generate power at night)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 44,328

    Scott_P said:

    @IanDunt: Has George Osborne lured the House of Lords into a trap? https://t.co/H1AD1SPZ60

    That point was first made by me in a post four days ago when I suggested that this was a plot to undermine the Lords.

    'The prince'
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 36,517
    @jessicaelgot: Oldham paper reports death of veteran Labour MP Michael Meacher https://t.co/w3U2ozgKst
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 44,328

    Pulpstar said:

    and the sun always shines above the clouds.

    Solar PVs still generate even in cloudy weather :D. Obviously not at night, though ;)
    The point is they generate just a fraction of their rated power in cloudy weather - 10-20% IIRC.

    ISTR one solar plant did generate power at night - a Spanish plant was cheating: they had some diesel generators on site, and were using these cheaper sources to generate extra power that could be sold as more expensive renewable energy. They got caught out when they started doing it at night ...

    (As opposed to the Andasol solar plant, which can generate power at night)
    I'll be able to have exact figures for you on generation soon enough :)
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,453

    @britainelects: Michael Meacher (MP, Oldham West & Royton) has sadly passed away. https://t.co/T921whAZZz

    RIP.

    First test of Corbyn in a by-election?

  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 5,869
    Trump to the Future
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,550
    RIP Michael Meacher. Although very much a man of the left, meacher was particularly thoughtful and well read up on money creation, particularly during Steve Baker's money creation debate last year. And not to mention a lost Corbyn ally for the leadership.
  • @britainelects: Michael Meacher (MP, Oldham West & Royton) has sadly passed away. https://t.co/T921whAZZz

    RIP.

    First test of Corbyn in a by-election?

    Yup. Not far from Heywood and Middleton.

    Theoretically a safe Labour seat but how much of it was down to the personal vote of Meacher?

    Kippers second there.
  • Question is can UKIP actually win a Westminster seat where their candidate isn't a defector incumbent?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,815

    @britainelects: Michael Meacher (MP, Oldham West & Royton) has sadly passed away. https://t.co/T921whAZZz

    RIP.

    First test of Corbyn in a by-election?

    Never met him, didn't like his politics - so have no problem talking B/E - Kippers were 2nd in May - just.

    General Election 2015: Oldham West and Royton[6]
    Party Candidate Votes % ±%
    Labour Michael Meacher 23,630 54.8 +9.3
    UKIP Francis Arbour 8,892 20.6 +17.4
    Conservative Kamran Ghafoor 8,187 19.0 -4.7
    Liberal Democrat Garth Harkness 1,589 3.7 -15.4
    Green Simeon Hart 839 1.9 +1.9
    Majority 14,738 34.2
    Turnout 43,137 59.6
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,822
    I wonder how Labour will go about candidate selection.
  • Michael Meacher, despite his hard leftie views, seemed a fairly decent and reputable man. I suspect he will be much missed on all sides of the Commons.

    And whilst protocol usually dictates against quickly weighing up the by election prospects, this must be seen as an opportunity for UKIP given the sensational near-result they achieved in nearby Middleton and Heywood before the last GE - and with Corbyn in situ now.

    Of course, your typical Labour voter in Oldham W will be very receptive to Corbyn's old school message, so I see no danger really of a Labour loss - but this early in the Parliament, it might cause some to feel they can protest vote for someone else.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 5,869

    Question is can UKIP actually win a Westminster seat where their candidate isn't a defector incumbent?

    No
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,815
    antifrank said:

    I wonder how Labour will go about candidate selection.

    Better call Len..
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 44,328
    RIP Michael Meacher.

    UkIP a shoo in for the w/o Labour market or some chance for the Tories here ?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Wasn't he MP since 1970? Big personal vote too.

    Michael Meacher, despite his hard leftie views, seemed a fairly decent and reputable man. I suspect he will be much missed on all sides of the Commons.

    And whilst protocol usually dictates against quickly weighing up the by election prospects, this must be seen as an opportunity for UKIP given the sensational near-result they achieved in nearby Middleton and Heywood before the last GE - and with Corbyn in situ now.

    Of course, your typical Labour voter in Oldham W will be very receptive to Corbyn's old school message, so I see no danger really of a Labour loss - but this early in the Parliament, it might cause some to feel they can protest vote for someone else.

  • antifrank said:

    I wonder how Labour will go about candidate selection.

    This could be one of the more interesting aspects of the forthcoming by election!
  • Tories in Oldham should vote tactically for Labour.

    Will help reduce the chances of Corbyn of being toppled
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    TGOHF Len will already have made the call.. with the name..
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,815
    Pulpstar said:

    RIP Michael Meacher.

    UkIP a shoo in for the w/o Labour market or some chance for the Tories here ?

    Not much LD to squeeze - 1,500 or so.

    Labour hold barring a Cornobyl event.

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    I remember Meacher taking some unjustified flak in the press at one point for marrying rather well (ie very wealthy person).

    At least at think it was Meacher.
  • On topic, can't believe Corbyn missed the chance to open with the line "This week, I begin with a question from Heidi in South Cambridgeshire..."

    Open goal, didn't even attempt the shot.

    But the bigger story is surely his tie which had the label facing to the front. Now that's a donkey jacket moment! His people must be cringeing!
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Didn't his house [one of many BTL] have a tennis court?

    He was infamously litigious.
    taffys said:

    I remember Meacher taking some unjustified flak in the press at one point for marrying rather well (ie very wealthy person).

    At least at think it was Meacher.

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    taffys said:

    I remember Meacher taking some unjustified flak in the press at one point for marrying rather well (ie very wealthy person).

    At least at think it was Meacher.

    Yes, it was Meacher. His second marriage.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    On topic, can't believe Corbyn missed the chance to open with the line "This week, I begin with a question from Heidi in South Cambridgeshire..."

    Open goal, didn't even attempt the shot.

    But the bigger story is surely his tie which had the label facing to the front. Now that's a donkey jacket moment! His people must be cringeing!

    Why is attire more important that what he was saying ?
  • I wonder at how many consecutive Commons appearances Corbyn will wear the same jacket and trousers?

    Granted the ties and shirts change each time, but he seems rather fond of the Mr Bean look...

    Maybe he realises its hardly worth investing in a full wardrobe given his likely lifespan in the job?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,799

    I think its quite clear that OGH wants these tax credit changes reversing and wants it to be a big deal. So today Cameron was struggling and a few days ago Tim Montgomerie writing against Cameron was serious pressure (rather than routine).

    I missed PMQ's but from the reading here it doesn't sound like Cameron struggled is universal opinion.

    I watched PMQs. Cameron was under no pressure whatsoever.

    There will be some who are hurt by the changes. There were some who were hurt by the "bedroom tax", notwithstanding the Govt. making huge amounts available to ease the problem for those caught in the transition. However, I suspect that in four and a half years time, when the election comes around, many of those currently worrying will in reality be significantly better off, with lower tax, higher hourly rate and (crucially) the incentive to work more hours.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Yes, it was Meacher. His second marriage.''

    One of those MPs you just thought would soldier on and on. Part of the furniture. Sad day.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 8,925
    Does anyone here know what proportion of UK electricity is Hinckley Point supposed to deliver?
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 1,948
    Corbyn will be facing actual voters rather than members and twitter affiliates for the first time. UKIP in second, but they're in such disarray at the moment that I can't see them sustaining a challenge. I could, however, see some possibility of a Tory gain here though. Depends whether they want to go for it, or not.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Sad but Michael Meacher died happy. He told me Jeremy Corbyn's election as leader was the greatest day of his career https://t.co/ab0Qk6pp55
  • SandraMSandraM Posts: 206
    I'm quite shocked about Michael Meacher as I am sure I saw his ex-wife Mollie being interviewed on "Daily Politics" just a short while ago. I know she's an ex but a lot of people I know were deeply affected when their ex died.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,637

    @britainelects: Michael Meacher (MP, Oldham West & Royton) has sadly passed away. https://t.co/T921whAZZz

    RIP.

    First test of Corbyn in a by-election?

    You might have at least put those thoughts in different posts!
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,453
    surbiton said:

    On topic, can't believe Corbyn missed the chance to open with the line "This week, I begin with a question from Heidi in South Cambridgeshire..."

    Open goal, didn't even attempt the shot.

    But the bigger story is surely his tie which had the label facing to the front. Now that's a donkey jacket moment! His people must be cringeing!

    Why is attire more important that what he was saying ?

    Do you think that a man who cannot work out that his tie is on back-to-front is suitable to run this country?

  • phil38phil38 Posts: 2
    cant say im a fan, do we really want someone running this country that is not very patriotic
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Veteran Labour MP and former minister Michael Meacher has died after a short illness.
    The 75-year-old had been MP for Oldham West and Royton since 1970.
    He retained the seat with a 14,738 majority at May's general election.

    Will there be a quick by-election?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Scott_P said:

    @IanDunt: Has George Osborne lured the House of Lords into a trap? https://t.co/H1AD1SPZ60

    That point was first made by me in a post four days ago when I suggested that this was a plot to undermine the Lords.

    It is a double-edged sword. If the second chamber cannot challenge the HoC , then why have it ?

    If the argument is that the HoC is elected, then we should elect the second chamber too ! 108 countries cannot be wrong.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''However, I suspect that in four and a half years time, when the election comes around, many of those currently worrying will in reality be significantly better off, with lower tax, higher hourly rate and (crucially) the incentive to work more hours.''

    And Osborne could cut indirect taxes that really affect the low paid. Fuel duty. Beer and wine taxes. VAT.

    That is labour's real fear.
  • There is a scenario where extreme Labour voter apathy and UKIP re-running their M&H campaign motivating the aggrieved working class/underclass, allows the Tories to sneak through the middle and snatch an unlikely Oldham W win, looking at the GE2015 numbers.

    But I think that highly improbable. Had it not been the fear of Ed and Salmond/Sturgeon calling the shots nationally, I doubt the Tories would have got 8k+ in May - and those are not issues in the forthcoming by-election.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Oldham

    2010 Brown as PM 45%
    1983 Foot as LOTO 44%
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    surbiton said:

    On topic, can't believe Corbyn missed the chance to open with the line "This week, I begin with a question from Heidi in South Cambridgeshire..."

    Open goal, didn't even attempt the shot.

    But the bigger story is surely his tie which had the label facing to the front. Now that's a donkey jacket moment! His people must be cringeing!

    Why is attire more important that what he was saying ?

    Do you think that a man who cannot work out that his tie is on back-to-front is suitable to run this country?

    Putting your dick inside a pig is OK though !
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,637
    taffys said:

    I remember Meacher taking some unjustified flak in the press at one point for marrying rather well (ie very wealthy person).

    At least at think it was Meacher.

    You're thinking about Shaun Woodward - former MP for St. Helen's - married to Camilla Sainsbury.

    Michael Meacher's the one with 9 houses...
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    hunchman said:

    RIP Michael Meacher. Although very much a man of the left, meacher was particularly thoughtful and well read up on money creation, particularly during Steve Baker's money creation debate last year. And not to mention a lost Corbyn ally for the leadership.

    Meacher did know a lot about money, he had plenty of it so he should. Public school educated and, of course, Oxford. Probably best known in his later years for his large property portfolio and his criticism of people who owned more than one home. Best mates back in the day with that other well known rich socialist, Benn.
  • dr_spyn said:

    Does anyone here know what proportion of UK electricity is Hinckley Point supposed to deliver?

    I believe it will be 7%
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,815
    chestnut said:

    Oldham

    2010 Brown as PM 45%
    1983 Foot as LOTO 44%

    Kippers can't send in Farage - maybe Nuttal ?

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,637
    surbiton said:

    Scott_P said:

    @IanDunt: Has George Osborne lured the House of Lords into a trap? https://t.co/H1AD1SPZ60

    That point was first made by me in a post four days ago when I suggested that this was a plot to undermine the Lords.

    It is a double-edged sword. If the second chamber cannot challenge the HoC , then why have it ?

    If the argument is that the HoC is elected, then we should elect the second chamber too ! 108 countries cannot be wrong.
    The point is that it should be a revising chamber, but should always bow to the will of the elected chamber.

    As soon as it is elected then it has its own democratic legitimacy and that can lead to deadlock.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    That's a Golly stat
    chestnut said:

    Oldham

    2010 Brown as PM 45%
    1983 Foot as LOTO 44%

  • RIP Michael Meacher

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34592381

    So, we have our first by-election during a Tory majority government since the 1990s.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited October 2015

    Sad but Michael Meacher died happy. He told me Jeremy Corbyn's election as leader was the greatest day of his career https://t.co/ab0Qk6pp55

    I didn't realise you spoke to hard Bennite Lefties !
  • surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    On topic, can't believe Corbyn missed the chance to open with the line "This week, I begin with a question from Heidi in South Cambridgeshire..."

    Open goal, didn't even attempt the shot.

    But the bigger story is surely his tie which had the label facing to the front. Now that's a donkey jacket moment! His people must be cringeing!

    Why is attire more important that what he was saying ?

    Do you think that a man who cannot work out that his tie is on back-to-front is suitable to run this country?

    Putting your dick inside a pig is OK though !
    But that allegation is not true - the world has just seen with its own eyes that the LOTO and the man purportedly putting himself forward as Chief Executive of UK PLC can't even dress himself.

    Happen as well he wouldn't press the button....
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited October 2015
    Charles said:

    surbiton said:

    Scott_P said:

    @IanDunt: Has George Osborne lured the House of Lords into a trap? https://t.co/H1AD1SPZ60

    That point was first made by me in a post four days ago when I suggested that this was a plot to undermine the Lords.

    It is a double-edged sword. If the second chamber cannot challenge the HoC , then why have it ?

    If the argument is that the HoC is elected, then we should elect the second chamber too ! 108 countries cannot be wrong.
    The point is that it should be a revising chamber, but should always bow to the will of the elected chamber.

    As soon as it is elected then it has its own democratic legitimacy and that can lead to deadlock.
    So, what's the f*cking point ?

    At least, then 37% can't do whatever they want. They should have called Osborne's bluff. The Tax credit changes was not included in a Finance Bill nor was it in the manifesto.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 19,974
    edited October 2015
    dr_spyn said:

    Does anyone here know what proportion of UK electricity is Hinckley Point supposed to deliver?

    I think 7% was mentioned on the radio earlier.

    Yep, 7%:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkley_Point_C_nuclear_power_station
  • Is it normal to wait until after PMQs to announce an MPs death?
  • Tories in Oldham should vote tactically for Labour.

    There are Tories in Oldham??

    :)

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,815

    chestnut said:

    Oldham

    2010 Brown as PM 45%
    1983 Foot as LOTO 44%

    Constituency 1997 : 84,232

    2015 : 72,377
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    dr_spyn said:

    Does anyone here know what proportion of UK electricity is Hinckley Point supposed to deliver?

    I think 7% was mentioned on the radio earlier.

    Yep, 7%:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkley_Point_C_nuclear_power_station
    We are renewing Trident and then giving away 7% of our electricity generation to the Chinese.
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