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  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,541
    surbiton said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Does anyone here know what proportion of UK electricity is Hinckley Point supposed to deliver?

    I think 7% was mentioned on the radio earlier.

    Yep, 7%:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkley_Point_C_nuclear_power_station
    We are renewing Trident and then giving away 7% of our electricity generation to the Chinese.
    I'm not sure a Labour supporter should be lecturing anyone when it comes to power generation.
  • surbiton said:

    Scott_P said:

    @IanDunt: Has George Osborne lured the House of Lords into a trap? https://t.co/H1AD1SPZ60

    That point was first made by me in a post four days ago when I suggested that this was a plot to undermine the Lords.

    It is a double-edged sword. If the second chamber cannot challenge the HoC , then why have it ?

    If the argument is that the HoC is elected, then we should elect the second chamber too ! 108 countries cannot be wrong.
    The House of Lords is the only Upper Chamber bigger than its respective Lower Chamber!
    World average = 44%.

    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/637020695478824960
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842

    surbiton said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Does anyone here know what proportion of UK electricity is Hinckley Point supposed to deliver?

    I think 7% was mentioned on the radio earlier.

    Yep, 7%:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkley_Point_C_nuclear_power_station
    We are renewing Trident and then giving away 7% of our electricity generation to the Chinese.
    I'm not sure a Labour supporter should be lecturing anyone when it comes to power generation.
    I'm not even against nuclear power in principle, but the strike price for the leccy produced there is ludicrously high. The chinese are laughing all the way to the bank on this one.
  • surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    On topic, can't believe Corbyn missed the chance to open with the line "This week, I begin with a question from Heidi in South Cambridgeshire..."

    Open goal, didn't even attempt the shot.

    But the bigger story is surely his tie which had the label facing to the front. Now that's a donkey jacket moment! His people must be cringeing!

    Why is attire more important that what he was saying ?

    Do you think that a man who cannot work out that his tie is on back-to-front is suitable to run this country?

    Putting your dick inside a pig is OK though !
    But that allegation is not true - the world has just seen with its own eyes that the LOTO and the man purportedly putting himself forward as Chief Executive of UK PLC can't even dress himself.

    Happen as well he wouldn't press the button....
    You really think an effete posho like Dave would have the courage to press the button?

    :lol:
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    For the sake of balance, the Speccie has a good article on why the Sino-British deal is good for both sides, despite the universal condemnation in the commentariat.

    The tories can do nothing right it seems. For everybody but the electorate.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    perdix said:

    OGH seems very keen to see Corbyn become a success now that his LibDem favourites are almost extinct.

    I can see OGH as chief rabble rouser for Cack-handed Corbo. ;)
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    chestnut said:

    Oldham

    2010 Brown as PM 45%
    1983 Foot as LOTO 44%

    I'm being slow - is the point here that Meacher's personal vote might have been important to Labour's success or that Labour do well here whoever the leader is an whether they're in power or not?

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    taffys said:

    For the sake of balance, the Speccie has a good article on why the Sino-British deal is good for both sides, despite the universal condemnation in the commentariat.

    The tories can do nothing right it seems. For everybody but the electorate.

    Fraser Nelson sneering and everything Cameron does - he's trying to be a one man opposition to fill a gap. Just making himself look more foolish however.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136
    surbiton said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Does anyone here know what proportion of UK electricity is Hinckley Point supposed to deliver?

    I think 7% was mentioned on the radio earlier.

    Yep, 7%:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkley_Point_C_nuclear_power_station
    We are renewing Trident and then giving away 7% of our electricity generation to the Chinese.
    They're not exactly giving it away, the Chinese pay for the power station and it's not like they get to take it home with them if they fall out with the British.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    How do we manage to give 7% of our electricity to China..is there a secret tunnel..
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Ken Stone ‏@dkenstone 23m23 minutes ago
    Furious parishioners kicked out of their local Catholic church http://dailym.ai/1OHQAEo via @MailOnline

    No wonder Christianity, of all sects, is failing in Britain. The clergy seem to be the parishioners worst enemy.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    On topic, can't believe Corbyn missed the chance to open with the line "This week, I begin with a question from Heidi in South Cambridgeshire..."

    Open goal, didn't even attempt the shot.

    But the bigger story is surely his tie which had the label facing to the front. Now that's a donkey jacket moment! His people must be cringeing!

    Why is attire more important that what he was saying ?

    Do you think that a man who cannot work out that his tie is on back-to-front is suitable to run this country?

    Putting your dick inside a pig is OK though !
    Thankfully not at the dispatch box though.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    dr_spyn said:

    Does anyone here know what proportion of UK electricity is Hinckley Point supposed to deliver?

    I think 7% was mentioned on the radio earlier.

    Yep, 7%:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkley_Point_C_nuclear_power_station
    Do you have any figures for the loss of generation thanks to HMG's various Green initiatives since 1997?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited October 2015
    MikeK said:

    Ken Stone ‏@dkenstone 23m23 minutes ago
    Furious parishioners kicked out of their local Catholic church http://dailym.ai/1OHQAEo via @MailOnline

    No wonder Christianity, of all sects, is failing in Britain. The clergy seem to be the parishioners worst enemy.

    Follow the money - suspect there are more Indian paying customers.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774
    Hinkley Point B (HPB) is a major reason why we are facing (theoretical) energy shortages.

    We have made guarantees for the electricity supplied by HPB that are more generous than those that we offer wind producers. (Unlike with wind, the price of electricity supplied by HPB has an inflation price escalator.)

    If you are considering building a CCGT in the UK, you are factoring in the fact that total demand for electricity is likely to drop 7% when HPB comes on stream. This means the price of all none-HPB energy is going to be less. (Effectively, the demand curve is moving to the left because of HPB, as HPB energy is guaranteed to be bought before electricity from your shiny new CCGT.)

    It gets worse.

    Nuclear plants have pretty awful reliability. Issues happen all all to regularly, which require maintenance. Essentially, at any given time there is only a c. 75% chance that they will be "on-line". This means that you need to have enough gas to deal with the inevitable period when HPB is off-line for unscheduled maintenance. (It's funny: we think of nuclear power as incredibly reliable, but in the words of The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists The idea that once nuclear reactors are built, they just hum along, putting out low-cost power with minimum maintenance, is a myth. The life cycle of a nuclear plant is quite complex. While there is a short period of stable, high performance during a reactor’s mature phase, it takes a long period of childhood and adolescent maturation to get to that level, and performance declines as old age sets in. And when they break, nuclear power plants create major problems—not only in the cost of repair, but also in the cost of short-term replacement power.)

    The building of HPB, which requires subsidy and will increase power prices in the UK, also discourages investment in safe, cheap, flexible and low emitting gas fired power stations.
  • TGOHF said:

    MikeK said:

    Ken Stone ‏@dkenstone 23m23 minutes ago
    Furious parishioners kicked out of their local Catholic church http://dailym.ai/1OHQAEo via @MailOnline

    No wonder Christianity, of all sects, is failing in Britain. The clergy seem to be the parishioners worst enemy.

    Romanists have always followed the money - suspect there are more Indian paying customers.
    Malayalam - my mother('s) tongue!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayalam
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    surbiton said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Does anyone here know what proportion of UK electricity is Hinckley Point supposed to deliver?

    I think 7% was mentioned on the radio earlier.

    Yep, 7%:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkley_Point_C_nuclear_power_station
    We are renewing Trident and then giving away 7% of our electricity generation to the Chinese.

    Once it is built they are not going to be able to tow it back to China if we fall out with them...

    Regarding the strike price, yes it is high although who knows what energy prices will be in 20 years time. Basically its a form of insurance to guard against the worst of any price spikes and since this plant will run for 60+ years, we should still be able to get plenty of cheap energy.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited October 2015
    DCI Settle "I sent anonomised case to CPS, they agreed that there was no case" 2013...
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,279

    dr_spyn said:

    Does anyone here know what proportion of UK electricity is Hinckley Point supposed to deliver?

    I think 7% was mentioned on the radio earlier.

    Yep, 7%:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkley_Point_C_nuclear_power_station
    Thanks.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,669
    watford30 said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Does anyone here know what proportion of UK electricity is Hinckley Point supposed to deliver?

    I think 7% was mentioned on the radio earlier.

    Yep, 7%:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkley_Point_C_nuclear_power_station
    Do you have any figures for the loss of generation thanks to HMG's various Green initiatives since 1997?
    Silly question, loss of generation caused by nuclear and other power stations being de-commissioned. A Green initiative such as subsidising insulation or the feed in tariff would be difficult to argue with, wouldn't it?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047

    Some anti-nuclear idiot on DP saying that renewables are the way to go, as the wind always blows in the UK, and the sun always shines above the clouds.

    The tides do always come in and out though - I'm quite taken with the tidal lagoon idea (provided sea life can be reasonably protected). One thing we're not short of is coastline. What are your thoughts?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,541
    Pulpstar said:

    surbiton said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Does anyone here know what proportion of UK electricity is Hinckley Point supposed to deliver?

    I think 7% was mentioned on the radio earlier.

    Yep, 7%:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkley_Point_C_nuclear_power_station
    We are renewing Trident and then giving away 7% of our electricity generation to the Chinese.
    I'm not sure a Labour supporter should be lecturing anyone when it comes to power generation.
    I'm not even against nuclear power in principle, but the strike price for the leccy produced there is ludicrously high. The chinese are laughing all the way to the bank on this one.
    What price will gas be at in 2020 or 2025?

    IAAFAIIPTGFBAE (*), but Hinkley's strike price is £92.50, or slightly less if they build Sizewell C as well. The current wholesale electricity price is £44.

    However, other energy generation means receive higher strike prices: offshore wind can be £117 onshore wind £82.
    http://www.carbonbrief.org/uk-renewables-auction-pushes-down-costs/

    And can be much higher:
    http://utilityweek.co.uk/news/offshore-wind-boost-as-government-reveals-final-strike-prices/953282#.VieUePmrTIV

    It seems a mess.

    I daresay the excellent Mr 1000 will put me right where I am wrong...

    (*) I Am About As Far As It Is Possible To Get From Being AN Expert
  • perdix said:

    OGH seems very keen to see Corbyn become a success now that his LibDem favourites are almost extinct.

    Lib Dems almost extinct and now keen on Corbyn, I can see a pattern emerging here.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited October 2015
    ''Fraser Nelson sneering and everything Cameron does - he's trying to be a one man opposition to fill a gap. Just making himself look more foolish however.''

    There's a whole posse of them. Nelson, Dale, D'Ancona, Martin, Montgomerie, Massie, Wallace. It just goes on and on.

    Not much more than Will Carling's old f8rts.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited October 2015
    Michael Meacher.

    According to the Oldham Chronicle, he has passed away aged 75 “after suffering with a short illness”. He leaves behind a wife and 12 homes…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lErXbuHpGoc

    As current now as it was 15 years ago.
  • TGOHF said:

    @britainelects: Michael Meacher (MP, Oldham West & Royton) has sadly passed away. https://t.co/T921whAZZz

    RIP.

    First test of Corbyn in a by-election?

    Never met him, didn't like his politics - so have no problem talking B/E - Kippers were 2nd in May - just.

    General Election 2015: Oldham West and Royton[6]
    Party Candidate Votes % ±%
    Labour Michael Meacher 23,630 54.8 +9.3
    UKIP Francis Arbour 8,892 20.6 +17.4
    Conservative Kamran Ghafoor 8,187 19.0 -4.7
    Liberal Democrat Garth Harkness 1,589 3.7 -15.4
    Green Simeon Hart 839 1.9 +1.9
    Majority 14,738 34.2
    Turnout 43,137 59.6

    If that is not a Labour hold Corbyn is done for.

    Probably looking at a turnout of less than 30% though.

  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Settle "Watson wasn't concerned at all at the time"

    "Jane's testimony didn't make a case against Brittan."

    "I saw Watson's letter as a betrayal, I told him exactly what why the decision to be made. I considered it a very low blow"
  • TGOHF said:

    @britainelects: Michael Meacher (MP, Oldham West & Royton) has sadly passed away. https://t.co/T921whAZZz

    RIP.

    First test of Corbyn in a by-election?

    Never met him, didn't like his politics - so have no problem talking B/E - Kippers were 2nd in May - just.

    General Election 2015: Oldham West and Royton[6]
    Party Candidate Votes % ±%
    Labour Michael Meacher 23,630 54.8 +9.3
    UKIP Francis Arbour 8,892 20.6 +17.4
    Conservative Kamran Ghafoor 8,187 19.0 -4.7
    Liberal Democrat Garth Harkness 1,589 3.7 -15.4
    Green Simeon Hart 839 1.9 +1.9
    Majority 14,738 34.2
    Turnout 43,137 59.6

    If that is not a Labour hold Corbyn is done for.

    Probably looking at a turnout of less than 30% though.

    Split opposition.

    It is, frankly, quite unlosable.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    watford30 said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Does anyone here know what proportion of UK electricity is Hinckley Point supposed to deliver?

    I think 7% was mentioned on the radio earlier.

    Yep, 7%:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkley_Point_C_nuclear_power_station
    Do you have any figures for the loss of generation thanks to HMG's various Green initiatives since 1997?
    Silly question, loss of generation caused by nuclear and other power stations being de-commissioned. A Green initiative such as subsidising insulation or the feed in tariff would be difficult to argue with, wouldn't it?
    Loss of generation - closure of coal fired plants etc
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    If that is not a Labour hold Corbyn is done for.

    Probably looking at a turnout of less than 30% though.

    This is the type of situation where UKIP should do well. Not win maybe, but good performance. Arguably Farage is under more pressure than Corbs.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Settle "It underminded our whole investigation."

    Settle is absolutely killing Watson.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,926
    edited October 2015
    taffys said:

    If that is not a Labour hold Corbyn is done for.

    Probably looking at a turnout of less than 30% though.

    This is the type of situation where UKIP should do well. Not win maybe, but good performance. Arguably Farage is under more pressure than Corbs.

    Meacher's vote went UP by almost 10% at the GE.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @TimesONeill: DCI Settle says he believes the subsequent interview with Lord #Brittan that did take place was unlawful

    @afneil: Home affairs select committee: DCI Paul Settle thinks change of decision on interviewing Leon Brittan because of Tom Watson’s letter to DPP.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Settle "I think the interview under PACE was unlawful" before it got to this stage "It would be a baseless witchhunt" stated in case notes.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774
    edited October 2015

    Pulpstar said:

    surbiton said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Does anyone here know what proportion of UK electricity is Hinckley Point supposed to deliver?

    I think 7% was mentioned on the radio earlier.

    Yep, 7%:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkley_Point_C_nuclear_power_station
    We are renewing Trident and then giving away 7% of our electricity generation to the Chinese.
    I'm not sure a Labour supporter should be lecturing anyone when it comes to power generation.
    I'm not even against nuclear power in principle, but the strike price for the leccy produced there is ludicrously high. The chinese are laughing all the way to the bank on this one.
    What price will gas be at in 2020 or 2025?

    IAAFAIIPTGFBAE (*), but Hinkley's strike price is £92.50, or slightly less if they build Sizewell C as well. The current wholesale electricity price is £44.

    However, other energy generation means receive higher strike prices: offshore wind can be £117 onshore wind £82.
    http://www.carbonbrief.org/uk-renewables-auction-pushes-down-costs/

    And can be much higher:
    http://utilityweek.co.uk/news/offshore-wind-boost-as-government-reveals-final-strike-prices/953282#.VieUePmrTIV

    It seems a mess.

    I daresay the excellent Mr 1000 will put me right where I am wrong...

    (*) I Am About As Far As It Is Possible To Get From Being AN Expert
    The prices for HPB are worse because they contain an inflation escalator, while the wind ones are fixed for 20 years.

    We need to build new CCGTs. We do not need HPB. By subsidising HPB we discourage investment in CCGTs.

    The amount of natural gas coming on stream over the next two decades is absolutely staggering. Australia has two of the worlds largest LNG projects starting up in the next two years: Gorgon and Wheatstone. Furthermore, there is a huge amount of prospectivity around the rest of Australia. Mozambique is home to perhaps the greatest gas reserves in the world. In the US, Cabot estimates that Marcellus gas is profitable at $0.75/mmcf. (That's one tenth of the current LNG price.) New LNG facilities are being built in the US. Floating liquification vessels mean we can start exploiting stranded gas reserves around the world.

    Gas is clean. Gas is available. Gas is cheap. Gas is reliable. Gas works at £44/MW. (Not £95/MW like nuclear.)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    @JosiasJessop Since energy costs have a material impact on inflation, any increase in the price of gas will probably have a knock on impact onto the £92.50 strike price as it is index linked.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Settle "It underminded our whole investigation."

    Settle is absolutely killing Watson.

    Do you have a linky thingy ?

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,541

    Some anti-nuclear idiot on DP saying that renewables are the way to go, as the wind always blows in the UK, and the sun always shines above the clouds.

    The tides do always come in and out though - I'm quite taken with the tidal lagoon idea (provided sea life can be reasonably protected). One thing we're not short of is coastline. What are your thoughts?
    IANAE, but the number of sites are limited, especially for large-scale generation, and the costs are large.

    As someone who loves Big Engineering (tm), I've a soft spot for a Severn Barrage, but it looks as though it won't happen.

    As an aside, I'm aware that pump-storage is a good means of 'storing' intermittent renewable energy. But unfortunately despite our mountainous terrain, the number of potential sites where pump-storage can be used to any scale are few. I wonder if it is possible to combine tidal lagoons and pump-storage? Or is that just a stupid idea?
  • Scott_P said:

    @TimesONeill: DCI Settle says he believes the subsequent interview with Lord #Brittan that did take place was unlawful

    @afneil: Home affairs select committee: DCI Paul Settle thinks change of decision on interviewing Leon Brittan because of Tom Watson’s letter to DPP.

    Looks like they are pouring a bucket of s##t all over the lovely Tom Watson.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited October 2015
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/f2477613-2e82-4de3-b7b1-2360ca8712ca
    JackW said:

    Settle "It underminded our whole investigation."

    Settle is absolutely killing Watson.

    Do you have a linky thingy ?

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @politicshome: DCI Settle on Tom Watson letter: "It confused matters considerably… distracted us, it shook confidence within the team.. and undermined us"
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,926
    edited October 2015
    rcs1000 said:

    Gas is clean. Gas is available. Gas is cheap. Gas is reliable. Gas works at £44/MW. (Not £95/MW like nuclear.)

    The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that Gas, for lack of a better word, is good. Gas is right, Gas works. Gas clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Gas, in all of its forms; Gas for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And Gas, you mark my words, will not only save the Energy Sector, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the UK. Thank you very much.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:

    @politicshome: DCI Settle on Tom Watson letter: "It confused matters considerably… distracted us, it shook confidence within the team.. and undermined us"

    Not really a smoking gun yet.

  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    edited October 2015

    Settle "I think the interview under PACE was unlawful" before it got to this stage "It would be a baseless witchhunt" stated in case notes.

    Not difficult for an interview to be potentially unlawful under PACE, normally it wouldn't have an impact on the admissability of evidence so obtained. That would be admissabilty at trial of course.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    If you can't watch it but want to follow on Twitter https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=#HASC&src=tyah
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,541
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    surbiton said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Does anyone here know what proportion of UK electricity is Hinckley Point supposed to deliver?

    I think 7% was mentioned on the radio earlier.

    Yep, 7%:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkley_Point_C_nuclear_power_station
    We are renewing Trident and then giving away 7% of our electricity generation to the Chinese.
    I'm not sure a Labour supporter should be lecturing anyone when it comes to power generation.
    I'm not even against nuclear power in principle, but the strike price for the leccy produced there is ludicrously high. The chinese are laughing all the way to the bank on this one.
    What price will gas be at in 2020 or 2025?

    IAAFAIIPTGFBAE (*), but Hinkley's strike price is £92.50, or slightly less if they build Sizewell C as well. The current wholesale electricity price is £44.

    However, other energy generation means receive higher strike prices: offshore wind can be £117 onshore wind £82.
    http://www.carbonbrief.org/uk-renewables-auction-pushes-down-costs/

    And can be much higher:
    http://utilityweek.co.uk/news/offshore-wind-boost-as-government-reveals-final-strike-prices/953282#.VieUePmrTIV

    It seems a mess.

    I daresay the excellent Mr 1000 will put me right where I am wrong...

    (*) I Am About As Far As It Is Possible To Get From Being AN Expert
    The prices for HPB are worse because they contain an inflation escalator, while the wind ones are fixed for 20 years.

    We need to build new CCGTs. We do not need HPB. By subsidising HPB we discourage investment in CCGTs.

    The amount of natural gas coming on stream over the next two decades is absolutely staggering. Australia has two of the worlds largest LNG projects starting up in the next two years: Gorgon and Wheatstone. Furthermore, there is a huge amount of prospectivity around the rest of Australia. Mozambique is home to perhaps the greatest gas reserves in the world. In the US, Cabot estimates that Marcellus gas is profitable at $0.75/mmcf. (That's one tenth of the current LNG price.) New LNG facilities are being built in the US. Floating liquification vessels mean we can start exploiting stranded gas reserves around the world.

    Gas is clean. Gas is available. Gas is cheap. Gas is reliable. Gas works at £44/MW. (Not £95/MW like nuclear.)
    Ah, thanks (esp. regarding the price escalator)

    I agree CCGT's are the way to go for the bulk of our energy, and we need to get building. But if we are diversifying energy, as all parties seem to want, then nuclear seems a good thing to put into the mix. I prefer it to yet more, very expensive, onshore wind.

    But that's just me. :)
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    "Profile: Oldham is a former centre for the textile industry, a town of red brick mills and dense terraced housing. There is a large Asian and Muslim population here and a history of racial tension which culminated in the Oldham riots in 2001, which later reports blamed upon self-segregation between the communities. As well as the western part of Oldham itself the constituency includes the towns of Chadderton and Royton to the west and north-west. These too are former textile towns, though both have seen substantial modern housing development. Major employers include 3M, Park Cake Bakeries, the Stationary Office and Trinity Mirrors printworks.

    Politics: Generally speaking Oldham West is a safe Labour seat. It has been held by the veteran left-winger Michael Meacher since 1970, though before that it was briefly represented by the Conservatives after a 1968 by-election win. The seat received brief notoriety at the 2001 general election when, in the immediate aftermath of the Oldham riots it was contested by Nick Griffin of the BNP. Griffin finished third, ahead of the Liberal Democrats and only five hundred votes behind the Conservatives. Fearful of further inflaming local tensions the returning officer banned speeches at the declaration and Griffin infamously appeared at the declartion wearing a gag in protest."

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/2015guide/oldhamwestandroyton/
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Oldham East was a Tory gain at the 1968 by- election. Meacher regained it in 1970.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    DCI Settle being very fair in his evidence. Giving credit when due to Watson, makes his other points very credible.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    They've been voting for a left wing labour candidate for 30 odd years, don't see why it should change now Corbo is in charge... Big Asian and Muslim area, split UKIP and Tory vote...

    Surely a walkover for lab? 1/50?
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited October 2015
    Scott_P said:
    Thank you and Plato too.

  • isam said:

    They've been voting for a left wing labour candidate for 30 odd years, don't see why it should change now Corbo is in charge... Big Asian and Muslim area, split UKIP and Tory vote...

    Surely a walkover for lab? 1/50?

    If it's anything better than 1/10 I'll wack a few quid on (once we know the date).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774

    rcs1000 said:

    Gas is clean. Gas is available. Gas is cheap. Gas is reliable. Gas works at £44/MW. (Not £95/MW like nuclear.)

    The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that Gas, for lack of a better word, is good. Gas is right, Gas works. Gas clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the
    evolutionary spirit. Gas, in all of its forms; Gas for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And Gas, you mark my words, will not only save the Energy Sector, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the UK. Thank you very much.

    As an aside, buying a couple of cheap open cycle gas turbines, and connecting them up to the grid to benefit from any spike in prices mightn't be a bad idea...
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Surely a walkover for lab? 1/50?

    Maybe. Its still going to be hilarious watching Seumas Milne campaigning there.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited October 2015
    tlg86 said:

    chestnut said:

    Oldham

    2010 Brown as PM 45%
    1983 Foot as LOTO 44%

    I'm being slow - is the point here that Meacher's personal vote might have been important to Labour's success or that Labour do well here whoever the leader is an whether they're in power or not?

    More that Brown and Foot have been the two most disastrous Labour leaders in the last 40 years, so Corbyn's benchmark has to be to do much better than that.

    There is virtually no LD/Green vote to squeeze from May, and Tory/UKIP was 40% or so.

    Labour will win, but the margin is more important.

    They got nearly 59% with Blair in 1997, 54% with Miliband.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    My sympathies to Meacher's friends/family.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,922
    isam said:

    They've been voting for a left wing labour candidate for 30 odd years, don't see why it should change now Corbo is in charge... Big Asian and Muslim area, split UKIP and Tory vote...

    Surely a walkover for lab? 1/50?

    The Labour price at the Bradford West by election of 2012 would have been something like that.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Gas is clean. Gas is available. Gas is cheap. Gas is reliable. Gas works at £44/MW. (Not £95/MW like nuclear.)

    The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that Gas, for lack of a better word, is good. Gas is right, Gas works. Gas clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the
    evolutionary spirit. Gas, in all of its forms; Gas for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And Gas, you mark my words, will not only save the Energy Sector, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the UK. Thank you very much.

    As an aside, buying a couple of cheap open cycle gas turbines, and connecting them up to the grid to benefit from any spike in prices mightn't be a bad idea...
    What sort of capital outlay is needed for that :D ?
  • Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Gas is clean. Gas is available. Gas is cheap. Gas is reliable. Gas works at £44/MW. (Not £95/MW like nuclear.)

    The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that Gas, for lack of a better word, is good. Gas is right, Gas works. Gas clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the
    evolutionary spirit. Gas, in all of its forms; Gas for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And Gas, you mark my words, will not only save the Energy Sector, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the UK. Thank you very much.

    As an aside, buying a couple of cheap open cycle gas turbines, and connecting them up to the grid to benefit from any spike in prices mightn't be a bad idea...
    What sort of capital outlay is needed for that :D ?
    I'll quote at £67bn.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,541
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Gas is clean. Gas is available. Gas is cheap. Gas is reliable. Gas works at £44/MW. (Not £95/MW like nuclear.)

    The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that Gas, for lack of a better word, is good. Gas is right, Gas works. Gas clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the
    evolutionary spirit. Gas, in all of its forms; Gas for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And Gas, you mark my words, will not only save the Energy Sector, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the UK. Thank you very much.

    As an aside, buying a couple of cheap open cycle gas turbines, and connecting them up to the grid to benefit from any spike in prices mightn't be a bad idea...
    Do you have any figures on how much we are spending on CCGT plants that are being placed in reserve?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Harry Cole ‏@MrHarryCole

    James Berry to DCI Settle: "how many of them were Watson's constituents?" "none"
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047

    Some anti-nuclear idiot on DP saying that renewables are the way to go, as the wind always blows in the UK, and the sun always shines above the clouds.

    The tides do always come in and out though - I'm quite taken with the tidal lagoon idea (provided sea life can be reasonably protected). One thing we're not short of is coastline. What are your thoughts?
    IANAE, but the number of sites are limited, especially for large-scale generation, and the costs are large.

    As someone who loves Big Engineering (tm), I've a soft spot for a Severn Barrage, but it looks as though it won't happen.

    As an aside, I'm aware that pump-storage is a good means of 'storing' intermittent renewable energy. But unfortunately despite our mountainous terrain, the number of potential sites where pump-storage can be used to any scale are few. I wonder if it is possible to combine tidal lagoons and pump-storage? Or is that just a stupid idea?
    I'm not sure why the strike price is so high for the Swansea lagoon - £168!! It seems to me that once the thing is built, surely it should generate power quite cheaply.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-34420631
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MrHarryCole: James Berry to DCI Settle: "how many of them were Watson's constituents?" "none"
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774

    Ah, thanks (esp. regarding the price escalator)

    I agree CCGT's are the way to go for the bulk of our energy, and we need to get building. But if we are diversifying energy, as all parties seem to want, then nuclear seems a good thing to put into the mix. I prefer it to yet more, very expensive, onshore wind.

    But that's just me. :)

    The problem with diversification for diversification's sake is that it inevitably means higher prices.

    If we are building new nuclear and guaranteeing it £95/MWh (and bear in mind that it is going to generate around the same number of MWh of as all the wind in the UK), we are going to push up electricity prices and discourage investment in new gas. This will disadvantage our manufacturing base.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,401

    isam said:

    They've been voting for a left wing labour candidate for 30 odd years, don't see why it should change now Corbo is in charge... Big Asian and Muslim area, split UKIP and Tory vote...

    Surely a walkover for lab? 1/50?

    The Labour price at the Bradford West by election of 2012 would have been something like that.
    True, although surely Galloway won't do it again? Question is, can anybody else? Positive Labour support seems relatively thin on the ground but what alternatives are there? This will be a fascinating by-election for all the main English parties right down to the Lib Dems.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,541
    Looks like ExaroNews have started a twitter hashtag to support Tom Watson.

    I wonder why they're supporting him... ? ;)
  • isam said:

    They've been voting for a left wing labour candidate for 30 odd years, don't see why it should change now Corbo is in charge... Big Asian and Muslim area, split UKIP and Tory vote...

    Surely a walkover for lab? 1/50?

    The Labour price at the Bradford West by election of 2012 would have been something like that.
    Lab started off that byelection with 45% of the vote. Here they start off with 55%. Comfy Lab hold
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,279
    Sean O'Neill ‏@TimesONeill 2m2 minutes ago
    DCI Settle: Lord #Brittan rape allegation did not pass any evidential test; "it fell at the first hurdle"
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    Some anti-nuclear idiot on DP saying that renewables are the way to go, as the wind always blows in the UK, and the sun always shines above the clouds.

    The tides do always come in and out though - I'm quite taken with the tidal lagoon idea (provided sea life can be reasonably protected). One thing we're not short of is coastline. What are your thoughts?
    I have read previously that sea-based energy generation has incredibly expensive maintenance costs.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,541
    rcs1000 said:

    Ah, thanks (esp. regarding the price escalator)

    I agree CCGT's are the way to go for the bulk of our energy, and we need to get building. But if we are diversifying energy, as all parties seem to want, then nuclear seems a good thing to put into the mix. I prefer it to yet more, very expensive, onshore wind.

    But that's just me. :)

    The problem with diversification for diversification's sake is that it inevitably means higher prices.

    If we are building new nuclear and guaranteeing it £95/MWh (and bear in mind that it is going to generate around the same number of MWh of as all the wind in the UK), we are going to push up electricity prices and discourage investment in new gas. This will disadvantage our manufacturing base.
    I'm not particularly in favour of diversification: we should only be diversifying to ensure greater energy security IMO.

    But that battle's been lost. All parties (except UKIP perhaps?) are in favour of diversification into green energy, some of which is utterly untried at the required scale.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I've been watching the supporters - it's very thin gruel

    Looks like ExaroNews have started a twitter hashtag to support Tom Watson.

    I wonder why they're supporting him... ? ;)

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774
    edited October 2015

    Some anti-nuclear idiot on DP saying that renewables are the way to go, as the wind always blows in the UK, and the sun always shines above the clouds.

    The tides do always come in and out though - I'm quite taken with the tidal lagoon idea (provided sea life can be reasonably protected). One thing we're not short of is coastline. What are your thoughts?
    IANAE, but the number of sites are limited, especially for large-scale generation, and the costs are large.

    As someone who loves Big Engineering (tm), I've a soft spot for a Severn Barrage, but it looks as though it won't happen.

    As an aside, I'm aware that pump-storage is a good means of 'storing' intermittent renewable energy. But unfortunately despite our mountainous terrain, the number of potential sites where pump-storage can be used to any scale are few. I wonder if it is possible to combine tidal lagoons and pump-storage? Or is that just a stupid idea?
    I'm not sure why the strike price is so high for the Swansea lagoon - £168!! It seems to me that once the thing is built, surely it should generate power quite cheaply.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-34420631
    The same can be said of any generation system - like solar or wind - that does not require fuel to operate.

    In the electricity world, we like to talk about LCOE. And that captures the differnce between capital and operating cost, at least to some degree.

    (Edit to add: see http://www.nrel.gov/analysis/tech_lcoe.html)
  • Looks like ExaroNews have started a twitter hashtag to support Tom Watson.

    I wonder why they're supporting him... ? ;)

    They are now about as reputable as the other lot of nonce finder generals the Bureau of Investigative Journalism (which somehow are still going).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774

    rcs1000 said:

    Ah, thanks (esp. regarding the price escalator)

    I agree CCGT's are the way to go for the bulk of our energy, and we need to get building. But if we are diversifying energy, as all parties seem to want, then nuclear seems a good thing to put into the mix. I prefer it to yet more, very expensive, onshore wind.

    But that's just me. :)

    The problem with diversification for diversification's sake is that it inevitably means higher prices.

    If we are building new nuclear and guaranteeing it £95/MWh (and bear in mind that it is going to generate around the same number of MWh of as all the wind in the UK), we are going to push up electricity prices and discourage investment in new gas. This will disadvantage our manufacturing base.
    I'm not particularly in favour of diversification: we should only be diversifying to ensure greater energy security IMO.

    But that battle's been lost. All parties (except UKIP perhaps?) are in favour of diversification into green energy, some of which is utterly untried at the required scale.
    No, it's been tried.

    We know the cost of massive subsidy of green technologies. See Germany or Denmark.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,401

    isam said:

    They've been voting for a left wing labour candidate for 30 odd years, don't see why it should change now Corbo is in charge... Big Asian and Muslim area, split UKIP and Tory vote...

    Surely a walkover for lab? 1/50?

    The Labour price at the Bradford West by election of 2012 would have been something like that.
    Lab started off that byelection with 45% of the vote. Here they start off with 55%. Comfy Lab hold
    Although had Galloway achieved the same swing with Labour starting off on 55%, he'd still have won.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774
    JEO said:

    Some anti-nuclear idiot on DP saying that renewables are the way to go, as the wind always blows in the UK, and the sun always shines above the clouds.

    The tides do always come in and out though - I'm quite taken with the tidal lagoon idea (provided sea life can be reasonably protected). One thing we're not short of is coastline. What are your thoughts?
    I have read previously that sea-based energy generation has incredibly expensive maintenance costs.
    You're absolutely correct. All the pilot projects have had horrible issues with corrosion and reliability.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Gas is clean. Gas is available. Gas is cheap. Gas is reliable. Gas works at £44/MW. (Not £95/MW like nuclear.)

    The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that Gas, for lack of a better word, is good. Gas is right, Gas works. Gas clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the
    evolutionary spirit. Gas, in all of its forms; Gas for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And Gas, you mark my words, will not only save the Energy Sector, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the UK. Thank you very much.

    As an aside, buying a couple of cheap open cycle gas turbines, and connecting them up to the grid to benefit from any spike in prices mightn't be a bad idea...
    Do you have any figures on how much we are spending on CCGT plants that are being placed in reserve?
    I have a spreadsheet with every power station in the country, including mothballed plants :-)

    More seriously: are you asking about capacity payments, or about the amount spent by generating companies on keeping equipment ready to be brought back on stream?
  • Sorry to hear about Michael Meacher, a decent man.

    On DCI Settle's evidence, surely this dynamite? Anonymised evidence = no case to answer, name a Tory peer on the the same evidence and the case is re-opened. You really couldn't get more direct proof that this is a politically-motivated witchhunt.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,922

    isam said:

    They've been voting for a left wing labour candidate for 30 odd years, don't see why it should change now Corbo is in charge... Big Asian and Muslim area, split UKIP and Tory vote...

    Surely a walkover for lab? 1/50?

    The Labour price at the Bradford West by election of 2012 would have been something like that.
    Lab started off that byelection with 45% of the vote. Here they start off with 55%. Comfy Lab hold
    Although had Galloway achieved the same swing with Labour starting off on 55%, he'd still have won.
    Also around the time of the 'Omnishambles Budget', which now in retrospect we can see to have been peak Miliband.
  • isam said:

    They've been voting for a left wing labour candidate for 30 odd years, don't see why it should change now Corbo is in charge... Big Asian and Muslim area, split UKIP and Tory vote...

    Surely a walkover for lab? 1/50?

    Yeah, no risk to Labour at all.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    The Met coming out of this pretty poorly.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,922

    Sorry to hear about Michael Meacher, a decent man.

    On DCI Settle's evidence, surely this dynamite? Anonymised evidence = no case to answer, name a Tory peer on the the same evidence and the case is re-opened. You really couldn't get more direct proof that this is a politically-motivated witchhunt.

    I'd expect Crick and C4 News to be on his case again tonight ...
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    "I struggle to see how any other officer who'd read my 30 notes in the decision log would rationally conclude to intv Brittan"
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Danny Shaw

    Settle says he's been sidelined by Met for making stand re Lord #Brittan. @Keith_Vaz: "What are you doing now?" Settle: "Not a great deal"
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    It seems like a big mistake to let many of these people into Europe:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34592797

    They don't get what they demand so they resort to arson. They should be immediately deported back to wherever they came from.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731

    isam said:

    They've been voting for a left wing labour candidate for 30 odd years, don't see why it should change now Corbo is in charge... Big Asian and Muslim area, split UKIP and Tory vote...

    Surely a walkover for lab? 1/50?

    The Labour price at the Bradford West by election of 2012 would have been something like that.
    Yeah fair enough... If Galloway stands he might win? But he wants to be Mayor of London at the mo
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Vaz very supportive of Settle - makes a big point of saying that any attempts to harm his career as a result of appearing would be a contempt of Parly.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,541
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Gas is clean. Gas is available. Gas is cheap. Gas is reliable. Gas works at £44/MW. (Not £95/MW like nuclear.)

    The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that Gas, for lack of a better word, is good. Gas is right, Gas works. Gas clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the
    evolutionary spirit. Gas, in all of its forms; Gas for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And Gas, you mark my words, will not only save the Energy Sector, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the UK. Thank you very much.

    As an aside, buying a couple of cheap open cycle gas turbines, and connecting them up to the grid to benefit from any spike in prices mightn't be a bad idea...
    Do you have any figures on how much we are spending on CCGT plants that are being placed in reserve?
    I have a spreadsheet with every power station in the country, including mothballed plants :-)

    More seriously: are you asking about capacity payments, or about the amount spent by generating companies on keeping equipment ready to be brought back on stream?
    I thought I was geeky. :)

    I'm not sure: I might have got the wrong end of the stick, but I was talking to someone who works at a power station. He says they are being paid a lot of money from the government (no idea which part) to convert their plant to immediate standby or somesuch, so they can be turned on very quickly when renewables generation plummets.

    On top of this, they get a payment for all the time the plant is on standby.

    I trust what he says, so if that's wrong then it's my interpretation and memory of what he said!
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    rcs1000 said:

    JEO said:

    Some anti-nuclear idiot on DP saying that renewables are the way to go, as the wind always blows in the UK, and the sun always shines above the clouds.

    The tides do always come in and out though - I'm quite taken with the tidal lagoon idea (provided sea life can be reasonably protected). One thing we're not short of is coastline. What are your thoughts?
    I have read previously that sea-based energy generation has incredibly expensive maintenance costs.
    You're absolutely correct. All the pilot projects have had horrible issues with corrosion and reliability.
    On gas, I have read that it is cleaner than coal, but still a lot dirtier than nuclear and renewables.

    Why is the strike price so high for this nuclear deal? I thought nuclear was supposed to be cheap.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774
    isam said:

    isam said:

    They've been voting for a left wing labour candidate for 30 odd years, don't see why it should change now Corbo is in charge... Big Asian and Muslim area, split UKIP and Tory vote...

    Surely a walkover for lab? 1/50?

    The Labour price at the Bradford West by election of 2012 would have been something like that.
    Yeah fair enough... If Galloway stands he might win? But he wants to be Mayor of London at the mo
    If Galloway stands, then UKIP could slip through the middle and win:

    UKIP 30
    Galloway 25
    Labour 25
    Tories 15
    The Field 5%
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    isam said:

    They've been voting for a left wing labour candidate for 30 odd years, don't see why it should change now Corbo is in charge... Big Asian and Muslim area, split UKIP and Tory vote...

    Surely a walkover for lab? 1/50?

    The Labour price at the Bradford West by election of 2012 would have been something like that.
    True, although surely Galloway won't do it again? Question is, can anybody else? Positive Labour support seems relatively thin on the ground but what alternatives are there? This will be a fascinating by-election for all the main English parties right down to the Lib Dems.
    'right down to the Lib Dems' - how the mighty have fallen.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    On topic, can't believe Corbyn missed the chance to open with the line "This week, I begin with a question from Heidi in South Cambridgeshire..."

    Open goal, didn't even attempt the shot.

    But the bigger story is surely his tie which had the label facing to the front. Now that's a donkey jacket moment! His people must be cringeing!

    Why is attire more important that what he was saying ?

    Do you think that a man who cannot work out that his tie is on back-to-front is suitable to run this country?

    Putting your dick inside a pig is OK though !
    Except that didn't happen.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Jesus - DAC Rodehouse is a complete ninny. He's handling this very badly - all weasel words and hopping about trying to distance himself from it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Gas is clean. Gas is available. Gas is cheap. Gas is reliable. Gas works at £44/MW. (Not £95/MW like nuclear.)

    The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that Gas, for lack of a better word, is good. Gas is right, Gas works. Gas clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the
    evolutionary spirit. Gas, in all of its forms; Gas for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And Gas, you mark my words, will not only save the Energy Sector, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the UK. Thank you very much.

    As an aside, buying a couple of cheap open cycle gas turbines, and connecting them up to the grid to benefit from any spike in prices mightn't be a bad idea...
    Do you have any figures on how much we are spending on CCGT plants that are being placed in reserve?
    I have a spreadsheet with every power station in the country, including mothballed plants :-)

    More seriously: are you asking about capacity payments, or about the amount spent by generating companies on keeping equipment ready to be brought back on stream?
    I thought I was geeky. :)

    I'm not sure: I might have got the wrong end of the stick, but I was talking to someone who works at a power station. He says they are being paid a lot of money from the government (no idea which part) to convert their plant to immediate standby or somesuch, so they can be turned on very quickly when renewables generation plummets.

    On top of this, they get a payment for all the time the plant is on standby.

    I trust what he says, so if that's wrong then it's my interpretation and memory of what he said!
    That's Capacity Payments. If I had a bit more time, I could write you an essay on them. But IIRC, there are about £1bn of capacity payments handed out (from 2018) for people to own capacity and have it ready to supply electicity.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    FT Brussels ‏@ftbrussels 2 mins2 minutes ago
    Merkel calls meeting to stem migrant tide http://on.ft.com/1RW6iKP

    *innocent face*
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. JEO, I'd guess it's because Labour dicked about doing nothing on energy, and the Coalition was very nearly as bad. We need to build rapidly, and the Chinese aren't muppets.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774
    JEO said:

    rcs1000 said:

    JEO said:

    Some anti-nuclear idiot on DP saying that renewables are the way to go, as the wind always blows in the UK, and the sun always shines above the clouds.

    The tides do always come in and out though - I'm quite taken with the tidal lagoon idea (provided sea life can be reasonably protected). One thing we're not short of is coastline. What are your thoughts?
    I have read previously that sea-based energy generation has incredibly expensive maintenance costs.
    You're absolutely correct. All the pilot projects have had horrible issues with corrosion and reliability.
    On gas, I have read that it is cleaner than coal, but still a lot dirtier than nuclear and renewables.

    Why is the strike price so high for this nuclear deal? I thought nuclear was supposed to be cheap.
    No nuclear power plant has ever been built, anywhere in the world, without government subsidies.

    The problem with nuclear is that it is theoretically cheap, but that construction costs often massively overrun, and reliability is often far worse than planned.
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