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  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 4,808

    AndyJS said:

    Well done to the House of Lords for supporting onshore windfarms which the majority of people support.

    Says who?
    Lots of polling.

  • AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Well done to the House of Lords for supporting onshore windfarms which the majority of people support.

    Says who?
    Most opinion polls IIRC.
    Can you support your statement with reference to specific polls
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 14,923
    On topic, now (or fairly soon, after his price drifts out further) might be the time to have a small covering punt on Biden. Barring accidents, Hillary is the nominee. But accidents, particularly those involving e-mails, may happen. If so, Sanders will neither have enough pledged delegates nor support from the Dem establishment to become candidate. Someone else would need to step in - and that would be Biden. For now, take 100/1 and above.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 18,060
    Oh well, another few quid gone. I really thought he would do it.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 6,791

    I think that it is Clinton versus Rubio or Trump. If the Republicans choose the former they will win.

    EDITED

    Agreed.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 48,564
    Betting post: Hilary Clinton @ 5-6 Paddy Power (Iowa caucus)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 14,276
    I think the key problem with tax credits is not that anyone is going to miss them. They are an expensive, badly-run, lazily-implemented shambles that penalises work and causes endless bureaucracy and needless hardship in cases of over or under payment (Which despite radical improvements, is still far too common).

    The big problem is that they are being phased out very rapidly without necessary correctives - e.g. the Universal Credit, the Living wage - being up and running before they are removed. That is definitely going to hit a lot of families, including my own (although not me personally). My mild-mannered, devoutly Christian and generally Conservatively-inclined sister commented recently that she would like to punch Iain Duncan Smith in the face. It was a remark almost as unexpected as would be hearing Corbyn say, 'You know, that Adam Smith was on to something with his invisible hand theories. As for Maggie, always loved her. Bang right on the unions.' That's the level of anger that this is causing, and it is born of the level of hardship it is causing.

    Because it is being rushed, I personally think this is about money. It should not be, as there is an absolutely sound case for abolishing government subsidies to private business thereby artificially deflating wages and inflating profits that left and right can both agree on. But it clearly is, and that will undoubtedly hurt Osborne personally (no loss) and possibly the Conservatives more widely (as our last passably sane democratic party, that's a concern).

    Two further issues spring to mind:

    1) If this causes a drop-off in spending among those affected - and it surely will - that will depress demand in the economy and could even tip us back into recession, which would therefore make this saving actually cost-neutral.

    2) Marginal seats, like this one, are the ones where the bite will be felt. I don't think Cannock would turn to Corbyn, but there might be opportunities for UKIP if they campaigned to bring them back. (I thought that about the Bedroom Tax too though, and much difference that made.)
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    To The Junior Docs..you will not win this one..as the little Labour lad said..there aint no money..and watch out for the sudden influx of qualified docs from the rest of the world.

    They are not asking for a payrise, just refusing a paycut of up to 30%.

    We have multiple vacancies that we cannot fill at present, 50% of GP Training places in the East Midlands are vacant. Recruiting able doctors is not easy.
  • AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Well done to the House of Lords for supporting onshore windfarms which the majority of people support.

    Says who?
    Most opinion polls IIRC.
    Can you support your statement with reference to specific polls
    https://www.google.co.uk/#q=opinion+polling+wind+farms
  • AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Well done to the House of Lords for supporting onshore windfarms which the majority of people support.

    Says who?
    Most opinion polls IIRC.
    Can you support your statement with reference to specific polls
    Yes back it up please, as far as everyone I know is concerned they are hugely expensive, hugely inefficient bird blenders.
  • AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Well done to the House of Lords for supporting onshore windfarms which the majority of people support.

    Says who?
    Most opinion polls IIRC.
    Can you support your statement with reference to specific polls
    Yes back it up please, as far as everyone I know is concerned they are hugely expensive, hugely inefficient bird blenders.
    https://www.google.co.uk/#q=opinion+polling+wind+farms
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548

    Can anyone point me to any mention of ABOLISHING tax credits in the Tory manifesto?

    Corrected it for you :)
    They promised to bring the welfare bill under control. I, rather sensibily as it turns out, assumed that that meant getting rid of the ridiculous tax credit system. Didn't you?
    "Assumption is the mother of all f*ckups" :)

    I'd best not assume that the sun will rise tomorrow then, something could go dreadfully wrong...
  • Can anyone point me to any mention of ABOLISHING tax credits in the Tory manifesto?

    Corrected it for you :)
    They promised to bring the welfare bill under control. I, rather sensibily as it turns out, assumed that that meant getting rid of the ridiculous tax credit system. Didn't you?
    "Assumption is the mother of all f*ckups" :)

    I'd best not assume that the sun will rise tomorrow then, something could go dreadfully wrong...
    Willing to bet on that? :lol:
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Foxinsox Various speakers in the HOC this week claim they are not taking a pay cut..who is right..
  • AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Well done to the House of Lords for supporting onshore windfarms which the majority of people support.

    Says who?
    Most opinion polls IIRC.
    Can you support your statement with reference to specific polls
    Yes back it up please, as far as everyone I know is concerned they are hugely expensive, hugely inefficient bird blenders.
    https://www.google.co.uk/#q=opinion+polling+wind+farms
    Got anything more recent and not carried out by vested interests?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    I see now the tories are in government, rule by opinion poll is acceptable.

    The polls also showed a Scot Nat labour coalition, and they were spectacularly wrong.

    For so many people, 2015 never happened and they expect business as usual. It was an election that the electorate simply got wrong and we will go on governing in our liberal way until they come to their senses.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    F
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    To The Junior Docs..you will not win this one..as the little Labour lad said..there aint no money..and watch out for the sudden influx of qualified docs from the rest of the world.

    They are not asking for a payrise, just refusing a paycut of up to 30%.

    We have multiple vacancies that we cannot fill at present, 50% of GP Training places in the East Midlands are vacant. Recruiting able doctors is not easy.
    I am sure you have answered this question previously. Are more doctors and nurses being trained? Medicine is an insanely competitive course so I am sure there are more than enough bright young adults capable of studying it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 14,276
    edited October 2015
    taffys said:

    I see now the tories are in government, rule by opinion poll is acceptable.

    The polls also showed a Scot Nat labour coalition, and they were spectacularly wrong.

    For so many people, 2015 never happened and they expect business as usual. It was an election that the electorate simply got wrong and we will go on governing in our liberal way until they come to their senses.

    Arthur Balfour's first comment on 1906 (bearing in mind, at this stage he was not even an MP, having lost East Manchester by 2000 votes):

    'Our first duty, whether in government or out, is to ensure that the Unionists continue to control the destiny of this great nation and empire.'

    It's called hubris. Any party in power for many years gets it - they believe that they know what they're doing and everyone else is a moron. Labour are still struggling to grasp the extent of their failure, hampered by their unshakeable belief in their own moral superiority (something that John Major's Conservatives had enough self-awareness not to pretend). It may take another couple of defeats to teach them humility and remind them that in a democracy power is not God-given.

    With that, I will love you and leave you until next week (when it is half term and with luck I will not feel as though I am literally about to keel over with exhaustion, as happened yesterday). Have a good weekend everyone.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Foxinsox..Reality bites..If the NHS is not paying Junior Docs an acceptable wage then the NHS will have to make do with the shortage....or we open the floodgates to those Docs around the world who will work for the dosh ..Why should the medical Profession enjoy such a privileged status..
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 23,918
    60.5% didn't vote for the Liberals in Canada and they've also won a clear majority in seats.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548

    Can anyone point me to any mention of ABOLISHING tax credits in the Tory manifesto?

    Corrected it for you :)
    They promised to bring the welfare bill under control. I, rather sensibily as it turns out, assumed that that meant getting rid of the ridiculous tax credit system. Didn't you?
    "Assumption is the mother of all f*ckups" :)

    I'd best not assume that the sun will rise tomorrow then, something could go dreadfully wrong...
    Willing to bet on that? :lol:
    You want to bet on the sun not rising?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 23,918

    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Well done to the House of Lords for supporting onshore windfarms which the majority of people support.

    Says who?
    Most opinion polls IIRC.
    Can you support your statement with reference to specific polls
    Can't you spend a few minutes looking the data up yourself?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 10,402
    edited October 2015

    BJO A vacuum will always be filled.. if they don't want to work for the NHS and the Tand C then they have to move on...in other words get out of the effin way..It is their career..their choice..do the job or move..

    By expensive locums. The crap being pulled over Physician Assistants is breath taking.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 7,543

    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Well done to the House of Lords for supporting onshore windfarms which the majority of people support.

    Says who?
    Most opinion polls IIRC.
    Can you support your statement with reference to specific polls
    Yes back it up please, as far as everyone I know is concerned they are hugely expensive, hugely inefficient bird blenders.
    https://www.google.co.uk/#q=opinion+polling+wind+farms
    The majority support them because of what they signify. People look at them and see free, clean power flowing in to the economy. They're very reinforcing in their imagery - we see them turning around; we know that means the power is flowing. It's like the opposite of seeing a belching cooling tower, where you see fumes pouring into the sky, and it's like a visual illustration of the despoiling of the environment (although in actuality it's just vapour).

    When you realise that wind power is a great big subsidised racket, and all that rotating signifies is energy consumers' money being poured into landowner's pockets, they take on a completely different significance, and can be seen as the blight on the landscape they are.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @PClipp

    bigjohnowls

    and of the 25% that did I am pretty sure100% thought Tax Credits were to be frozen not cut.
    So basically 0% of voters voted for Tax Credit Cuts!!!

    Are you saying, Mr Owls, that the Tories came into office on the basis of a fraudulent prospectus?''


    Can you remind us where cutting the 10p tax rate was in the 2005 Labour manifesto or the tripling of student fees was in the 2010 Lib Dem manifesto ?

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    MP_SE said:

    To The Junior Docs..you will not win this one..as the little Labour lad said..there aint no money..and watch out for the sudden influx of qualified docs from the rest of the world.

    They are not asking for a payrise, just refusing a paycut of up to 30%.

    We have multiple vacancies that we cannot fill at present, 50% of GP Training places in the East Midlands are vacant. Recruiting able doctors is not easy.
    I am sure you have answered this question previously. Are more doctors and nurses being trained? Medicine is an insanely competitive course so I am sure there are more than enough bright young adults capable of studying it.
    There are about 40 000 Nursing traing places and 12 000 Medical School places each year in the UK. The number in Nursing places is nearly back to what it was 5 years ago. The number of Medical School places is nearly 3 times that of 3 decades ago when I qualified. There is quite a high dropout rate now up from a couple of percent in my day. 30% of British Medical graduates are not practicing medicine in the UK 2 years post qualification, some emigrate others just quit medicine altogether.

    Some specialities have massive recruitment problems already, particularly Emergency Medicine, General Practice, Psychiatry, Obstetrics.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 7,543

    Meanwhile in Turkey, a suggestion from the Turkish that IS open a Consulate in Istanbul:

    https://barnabasfund.org/news/Editorial-Turkey-exposed?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook

    Chilling.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 6,559

    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Well done to the House of Lords for supporting onshore windfarms which the majority of people support.

    Says who?
    Most opinion polls IIRC.
    Can you support your statement with reference to specific polls
    Yes back it up please, as far as everyone I know is concerned they are hugely expensive, hugely inefficient bird blenders.
    https://www.google.co.uk/#q=opinion+polling+wind+farms
    Don't confuse them with the facts.
    By the way, I'm not one of the 70%, I prefer offshore wind farms to onshore and also like Dinorwig style pumped storage and tidal power.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 4,685
    Can anyone give me some advice?

    I want to sell a shareholding in a listed company worth about £10k. I hold the shares directly and have the share certificate.

    What is the quickest and easiest way to do this?

    I don't want to carry out any other transactions in the future. Is there any high street bank or similar where I can just walk in with the certificate and do the sale on the spot?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited October 2015
    ''30% of British Medical graduates are not practicing medicine in the UK 2 years post qualification, some emigrate others just quit medicine altogether.''

    Cripes, what a statistic. That is massive.

    There's your problem, right there.

    I have read that the profession also suffers because those that do work, want to work part time.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,316

    BJO..One thing the Junior Docs..and some others ..never seem to learn..you can never conduct a winning or successful campaign when you are standing outside the gate....and someone else is now doing your old job...

    Yep. But they have the support of both Consultants and GPs if they do walk out.

    In similar strikes there is emergency cover. It will hit mostly planned work. The aim will be to crash political (waiting times) and financial targets. No patient harmed but maximum difficulty for the government.
    Why can't we find a workable solution?

    If all these doctors emigrate to Australia, it sounds as though they have a better system there.

    What would it take to re-model our health system on theirs (about which I know nothing)?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 12,934
    AnneJGP said:

    BJO..One thing the Junior Docs..and some others ..never seem to learn..you can never conduct a winning or successful campaign when you are standing outside the gate....and someone else is now doing your old job...

    Yep. But they have the support of both Consultants and GPs if they do walk out.

    In similar strikes there is emergency cover. It will hit mostly planned work. The aim will be to crash political (waiting times) and financial targets. No patient harmed but maximum difficulty for the government.
    Why can't we find a workable solution?

    If all these doctors emigrate to Australia, it sounds as though they have a better system there.

    What would it take to re-model our health system on theirs (about which I know nothing)?
    An admission by the senior staff at the DoH that just because it's Not Invented Here doesn't mean its a Bad Idea!
  • JackW said:

    I think that it is Clinton versus Rubio or Trump. If the Republicans choose the former they will win.

    EDITED

    Hillary Clinton Will Be The 45th President Of The United States

    You must be over-joyed Jack by the Canadian result. This'll mean that Canada signs up to Kyoto once again - an issue I know that you are concerned about.

    Kyoto is already long dead and buried thankfully. And I am confident any future idiotic deals will quickly go the same way.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited October 2015
    It will be Hillary, unless of course she loses both Iowa and N.Hampshire, if that happens it will be a long fight for delegates.

    As for the presidential election, November 2016 is too far away to know. we don't even know what the economy or the middle east will look like by then.
    The democrats have a small advantage thanks to their lock on Virginia, but there are plenty of signs they will have a real fight to keep the industrial states on their side that are increasingly dominated by republicans on the local level and polls reflect that.

    On the republican side I'm always wary of paper candidates like Kasich, Rubio, Bush or Fiorina resonating with the voters.
    They have good CV's on paper, in reality they are terrible at it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 18,060
    taffys said:

    ''30% of British Medical graduates are not practicing medicine in the UK 2 years post qualification, some emigrate others just quit medicine altogether.''

    Cripes, what a statistic. That is massive.

    There's your problem, right there.

    I have read that the profession also suffers because those that do work, want to work part time.

    It costs the NHS a fortune to train a doctor. If they immediately opt to not work in it, then maybe they should face some charge for their training.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 48,564
    AnneJGP said:

    BJO..One thing the Junior Docs..and some others ..never seem to learn..you can never conduct a winning or successful campaign when you are standing outside the gate....and someone else is now doing your old job...

    Yep. But they have the support of both Consultants and GPs if they do walk out.

    In similar strikes there is emergency cover. It will hit mostly planned work. The aim will be to crash political (waiting times) and financial targets. No patient harmed but maximum difficulty for the government.
    Why can't we find a workable solution?

    If all these doctors emigrate to Australia, it sounds as though they have a better system there.

    What would it take to re-model our health system on theirs (about which I know nothing)?
    The financial arguments for heading to Aus can't be as compelling as they once were:

    http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=AUD&view=5Y
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 18,060
    AndyJS said:

    I think it'll be close whoever the GOP chooses because voters are fed up with getting either a Clinton or a Bush.

    To be fair, US elections are usually close as far as I can recall. There is a lot of polarity in the states.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,487

    We discussed the possibility of a military coup in Britain on here a few days ago - where a group of unelected people use their power to decide that they know what's best for the country.

    Thankfully, that is unlikely to happen in this country.

    Instead we get a Lords coup.

  • Found some interesting data from a publication "Child and Working Tax Credits Statistics -
    Finalised annual awards in 2013-14" which showed that the amount of tax credit awards in that year that related to childcare cost was over £1.1 billion. In light of the governments plan to introduce 30 hours free childcare from next year does that not mean that the tax credits bill will reduce by a billion even without the planned cuts
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    MP_SE said:

    To The Junior Docs..you will not win this one..as the little Labour lad said..there aint no money..and watch out for the sudden influx of qualified docs from the rest of the world.

    They are not asking for a payrise, just refusing a paycut of up to 30%.

    We have multiple vacancies that we cannot fill at present, 50% of GP Training places in the East Midlands are vacant. Recruiting able doctors is not easy.
    I am sure you have answered this question previously. Are more doctors and nurses being trained? Medicine is an insanely competitive course so I am sure there are more than enough bright young adults capable of studying it.
    There are about 40 000 Nursing traing places and 12 000 Medical School places each year in the UK. The number in Nursing places is nearly back to what it was 5 years ago. The number of Medical School places is nearly 3 times that of 3 decades ago when I qualified. There is quite a high dropout rate now up from a couple of percent in my day. 30% of British Medical graduates are not practicing medicine in the UK 2 years post qualification, some emigrate others just quit medicine altogether.

    Some specialities have massive recruitment problems already, particularly Emergency Medicine, General Practice, Psychiatry, Obstetrics.

    Are the number of places increasing each year to meet the demand for clinicians?

    That 30% figure is shocking. It would be interesting to see how many eventually return to the UK as that would ensure that the costs of training would be recouped.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Junior Docs having a pram throwing moment because they don't want to do what they have to do to get to the sunny uplands..I think they will get a lot of sympathy...hmmm
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,188
    I see a veteran of Enver Hoxhas image marketing team is working with the Clinton campaign.

    Its a pity that so far no big hitter has got stuck in to take on Clinton. I think a significant part of the Democratic vote is still not wholly comfortable with her.
  • felixfelix Posts: 8,182

    AndyJS said:

    Well done to the House of Lords for supporting onshore windfarms which the majority of people support.

    Says who?
    Lots of polling.

    Since when did an opinion poll trump a democratically elected government?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 22,254

    Meanwhile in Turkey, a suggestion from the Turkish that IS open a Consulate in Istanbul:

    https://barnabasfund.org/news/Editorial-Turkey-exposed?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook

    It'll be interesting to see why he said that.

    As an aside, the Armenian genocide was hideous, and a stain on Turkey's past. Their attitude towards denial of the genocide is a stain on their present. There was even a bomb attack on the publisher of a book that stated it was a genocide.

    It's similar to the way many Japanese deny the atrocities they committed in World War 2, except in the case of Turkey the denial's ingrained into their political psyche.

    Turkey has a law that makes it illegal to insult Turkishness, and they use it. Erdogan has also publicly threatened in the past to expel Armenians from Turkey.

    It's a side of the country that is hard to like. You cannot progress as a country unless you accept the mistakes of the past, and the calculated murder of around 1.5 million people is a rather large mistake.

    And I've probably said enough, so partly because of the aforementioned law I'd like to say that Turkey is also a beautiful, historic and enticing country, filled with lots of lovely people. :)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 21,212
    PClipp said:

    Jonathan said:

    Isn't it more like 75%?

    and of the 25% that did I am pretty sure100% thought Tax Credits were to be frozen not cut.
    So basically 0% of voters voted for Tax Credit Cuts!!!
    Are you saying, Mr Owls, that the Tories came into office on the basis of a fraudulent prospectus?
    Are you saying that the LibDems came into the Coalition on the basis of a fraudulent prospectus?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 10,402

    Junior Docs having a pram throwing moment because they don't want to do what they have to do to get to the sunny uplands..I think they will get a lot of sympathy...hmmm

    You do get that the new contract is a massive pay cut right?
  • TomsToms Posts: 1,631
    edited October 2015
    Jonathan said:

    Pauly said:

    "Government defeat in Lords over on shore wind subsidies
    Peers have voted 242 to 190, majority 52, to scrap government plans to end onshore wind subsidies early despite claims it was a breach of the Salisbury Convention."

    The HoL is going to be a massive nuisance for the a few months isn't it...

    Remember that 63.1% did not vote CON on May 7th

    Isn't it more like 75%?
    As somebody may have pointed out already, (I believe) the turnout was 66.1 percent. So, although the Tories got something like 36.9 percent of the vote that was only 24.4 percent of the number of registered voters. I think this is correct.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 11,360
    felix said:

    AndyJS said:

    Well done to the House of Lords for supporting onshore windfarms which the majority of people support.

    Says who?
    Lots of polling.

    Since when did an opinion poll trump a democratically elected government?
    Differential turnout made the actual election a rogue poll with a biased sample. :-)
  • Toms said:

    Jonathan said:

    Pauly said:

    "Government defeat in Lords over on shore wind subsidies
    Peers have voted 242 to 190, majority 52, to scrap government plans to end onshore wind subsidies early despite claims it was a breach of the Salisbury Convention."

    The HoL is going to be a massive nuisance for the a few months isn't it...

    Remember that 63.1% did not vote CON on May 7th

    Isn't it more like 75%?
    As somebody may have pointed out already, (I believe) the turnout was 66.1 percent. So, although the Tories got something like 36.9 percent of the vote that was only 24.4 percent of the number of registered voters. I think this is correct.
    It's 37% of voters and a majority government.

    Registered voters is a meaningless statistic that isn't used in any nation anywhere in the world. If people can't be arsed to vote then that's their choice.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    AnneJGP said:

    BJO..One thing the Junior Docs..and some others ..never seem to learn..you can never conduct a winning or successful campaign when you are standing outside the gate....and someone else is now doing your old job...

    Yep. But they have the support of both Consultants and GPs if they do walk out.

    In similar strikes there is emergency cover. It will hit mostly planned work. The aim will be to crash political (waiting times) and financial targets. No patient harmed but maximum difficulty for the government.
    Why can't we find a workable solution?

    If all these doctors emigrate to Australia, it sounds as though they have a better system there.

    What would it take to re-model our health system on theirs (about which I know nothing)?
    I have worked there, though not recently. Pay is a little better, though subject to forex variation. The attraction (other than the weather etc) is much more to do with working conditions than money. In particular unpleasant shifts, rotating training posts that make family life impossible, staffing shortages etc.

    Carrying a lot of vacant junior posts would tend to tip some of my more senior colleagues into early retirement. Simply not worth the hassle any more and voting with their feet.

  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 21,547

    Meanwhile in Turkey, a suggestion from the Turkish that IS open a Consulate in Istanbul:

    https://barnabasfund.org/news/Editorial-Turkey-exposed?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook

    It'll be interesting to see why he said that.

    As an aside, the Armenian genocide was hideous, and a stain on Turkey's past. Their attitude towards denial of the genocide is a stain on their present. There was even a bomb attack on the publisher of a book that stated it was a genocide.

    It's similar to the way many Japanese deny the atrocities they committed in World War 2, except in the case of Turkey the denial's ingrained into their political psyche.

    Turkey has a law that makes it illegal to insult Turkishness, and they use it. Erdogan has also publicly threatened in the past to expel Armenians from Turkey.

    It's a side of the country that is hard to like. You cannot progress as a country unless you accept the mistakes of the past, and the calculated murder of around 1.5 million people is a rather large mistake.

    And I've probably said enough, so partly because of the aforementioned law I'd like to say that Turkey is also a beautiful, historic and enticing country, filled with lots of lovely people. :)
    i just ran with that story on Twitter, and it was quickly pointed out to me that it's almost certainly a hoax. Though the Turkish spy dude does have some very unsavoury links to jihadists, including ISIS
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 14,923
    Toms said:

    Jonathan said:

    Pauly said:

    "Government defeat in Lords over on shore wind subsidies
    Peers have voted 242 to 190, majority 52, to scrap government plans to end onshore wind subsidies early despite claims it was a breach of the Salisbury Convention."

    The HoL is going to be a massive nuisance for the a few months isn't it...

    Remember that 63.1% did not vote CON on May 7th

    Isn't it more like 75%?
    As somebody may have pointed out already, (I believe) the turnout was 66.1 percent. So, although the Tories got something like 36.9 percent of the vote that was only 24.4 percent of the number of registered voters. I think this is correct.
    Although it was more votes than any party has won at any other election in the UK this century, beating Labour's 2001 total.
  • Pulpstar said:

    BJO..SUNIL I was at one tIme a very aggressive Union negotiator..so I have experience of how it all works ...I can assure you that the spaces will be filled..in the meantime the Junior Docs should get out of the way...or come to terms with reality..Lotsa docs in the world..

    Not allowed in though due to immigration rules.

    Vacuums are very expensive to fill and the NHS is already in its worst ever financial state.
    Why do you think that is BJO?

    Mismanagement, too many layers of managers on big salaries, huge pension liabilities particularly those that choose to retire at a ludicrously young age? Those same people then rehired on huge daily contracts? PFI? How about mass immigration and the fact they now have to cope with much bigger numbers?

    Are any of those factors or is it just Lansley?
    Walsgrave:

    'The hospital cost £440 million to build, but Projectco is guaranteed an income of £3.3 billion over 30 years, including facilities contracts.'
    Incredible.

    It would be nice if people took the time to look at external factors before blaming the Tories for everything.
  • mattmatt Posts: 2,244

    MP_SE said:

    To The Junior Docs..you will not win this one..as the little Labour lad said..there aint no money..and watch out for the sudden influx of qualified docs from the rest of the world.

    They are not asking for a payrise, just refusing a paycut of up to 30%.

    We have multiple vacancies that we cannot fill at present, 50% of GP Training places in the East Midlands are vacant. Recruiting able doctors is not easy.
    I am sure you have answered this question previously. Are more doctors and nurses being trained? Medicine is an insanely competitive course so I am sure there are more than enough bright young adults capable of studying it.
    There are about 40 000 Nursing traing places and 12 000 Medical School places each year in the UK. The number in Nursing places is nearly back to what it was 5 years ago. The number of Medical School places is nearly 3 times that of 3 decades ago when I qualified. There is quite a high dropout rate now up from a couple of percent in my day. 30% of British Medical graduates are not practicing medicine in the UK 2 years post qualification, some emigrate others just quit medicine altogether.

    Some specialities have massive recruitment problems already, particularly Emergency Medicine, General Practice, Psychiatry, Obstetrics.

    On the dropout rate, the risk is one of comparing apples and oranges. I wonder if one can see a correlation between the higher dropout and a change in the male:female ratio in med school. It would mimic top end law.

    As an aside, I note that the difficult recruitment areas are those where there is limited private practice opportunities.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 48,564

    Pulpstar said:

    BJO..SUNIL I was at one tIme a very aggressive Union negotiator..so I have experience of how it all works ...I can assure you that the spaces will be filled..in the meantime the Junior Docs should get out of the way...or come to terms with reality..Lotsa docs in the world..

    Not allowed in though due to immigration rules.

    Vacuums are very expensive to fill and the NHS is already in its worst ever financial state.
    Why do you think that is BJO?

    Mismanagement, too many layers of managers on big salaries, huge pension liabilities particularly those that choose to retire at a ludicrously young age? Those same people then rehired on huge daily contracts? PFI? How about mass immigration and the fact they now have to cope with much bigger numbers?

    Are any of those factors or is it just Lansley?
    Walsgrave:

    'The hospital cost £440 million to build, but Projectco is guaranteed an income of £3.3 billion over 30 years, including facilities contracts.'
    Incredible.

    It would be nice if people took the time to look at external factors before blaming the Tories for everything.
    Brown's PFI madness :D
  • AnneJGP said:

    BJO..One thing the Junior Docs..and some others ..never seem to learn..you can never conduct a winning or successful campaign when you are standing outside the gate....and someone else is now doing your old job...

    Yep. But they have the support of both Consultants and GPs if they do walk out.

    In similar strikes there is emergency cover. It will hit mostly planned work. The aim will be to crash political (waiting times) and financial targets. No patient harmed but maximum difficulty for the government.
    Why can't we find a workable solution?

    If all these doctors emigrate to Australia, it sounds as though they have a better system there.

    What would it take to re-model our health system on theirs (about which I know nothing)?
    I have worked there, though not recently. Pay is a little better, though subject to forex variation. The attraction (other than the weather etc) is much more to do with working conditions than money. In particular unpleasant shifts, rotating training posts that make family life impossible, staffing shortages etc.

    Carrying a lot of vacant junior posts would tend to tip some of my more senior colleagues into early retirement. Simply not worth the hassle any more and voting with their feet.

    Do you believe that doctors and nurses are the only people that have to do unpleasant shifts?
  • TomsToms Posts: 1,631

    Toms said:

    Jonathan said:

    Pauly said:

    "Government defeat in Lords over on shore wind subsidies
    Peers have voted 242 to 190, majority 52, to scrap government plans to end onshore wind subsidies early despite claims it was a breach of the Salisbury Convention."

    The HoL is going to be a massive nuisance for the a few months isn't it...

    Remember that 63.1% did not vote CON on May 7th

    Isn't it more like 75%?
    As somebody may have pointed out already, (I believe) the turnout was 66.1 percent. So, although the Tories got something like 36.9 percent of the vote that was only 24.4 percent of the number of registered voters. I think this is correct.
    It's 37% of voters and a majority government.

    Registered voters is a meaningless statistic that isn't used in any nation anywhere in the world. If people can't be arsed to vote then that's their choice.
    By all means call em as you see em. I was just trying to "square" the numbers.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 11,360
    Worthy of Private Eye:

    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/19/opinions/callan-aunt-who-sued-nephew/

    Not just the case itself, but the ponderous consideration of whether the real victim is the insurance companies...
  • Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    BJO..SUNIL I was at one tIme a very aggressive Union negotiator..so I have experience of how it all works ...I can assure you that the spaces will be filled..in the meantime the Junior Docs should get out of the way...or come to terms with reality..Lotsa docs in the world..

    Not allowed in though due to immigration rules.

    Vacuums are very expensive to fill and the NHS is already in its worst ever financial state.
    Why do you think that is BJO?

    Mismanagement, too many layers of managers on big salaries, huge pension liabilities particularly those that choose to retire at a ludicrously young age? Those same people then rehired on huge daily contracts? PFI? How about mass immigration and the fact they now have to cope with much bigger numbers?

    Are any of those factors or is it just Lansley?
    Walsgrave:

    'The hospital cost £440 million to build, but Projectco is guaranteed an income of £3.3 billion over 30 years, including facilities contracts.'
    Incredible.

    It would be nice if people took the time to look at external factors before blaming the Tories for everything.
    Brown's PFI madness :D
    Yep! Though of course BJO will spin it so Lansley gets the blame.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,316

    AnneJGP said:

    BJO..One thing the Junior Docs..and some others ..never seem to learn..you can never conduct a winning or successful campaign when you are standing outside the gate....and someone else is now doing your old job...

    Yep. But they have the support of both Consultants and GPs if they do walk out.

    In similar strikes there is emergency cover. It will hit mostly planned work. The aim will be to crash political (waiting times) and financial targets. No patient harmed but maximum difficulty for the government.
    Why can't we find a workable solution?

    If all these doctors emigrate to Australia, it sounds as though they have a better system there.

    What would it take to re-model our health system on theirs (about which I know nothing)?
    I have worked there, though not recently. Pay is a little better, though subject to forex variation. The attraction (other than the weather etc) is much more to do with working conditions than money. In particular unpleasant shifts, rotating training posts that make family life impossible, staffing shortages etc.

    Carrying a lot of vacant junior posts would tend to tip some of my more senior colleagues into early retirement. Simply not worth the hassle any more and voting with their feet.

    So how does Australia manage to avoid the unpleasant shifts? the rotating training posts? the staff shortages? the etcs?

  • felixfelix Posts: 8,182

    felix said:

    AndyJS said:

    Well done to the House of Lords for supporting onshore windfarms which the majority of people support.

    Says who?
    Lots of polling.

    Since when did an opinion poll trump a democratically elected government?
    Differential turnout made the actual election a rogue poll with a biased sample. :-)
    Oh laugh - nearly so funny as the Broxtowe result :)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 21,020

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Pauly said:

    "Government defeat in Lords over on shore wind subsidies
    Peers have voted 242 to 190, majority 52, to scrap government plans to end onshore wind subsidies early despite claims it was a breach of the Salisbury Convention."

    The HoL is going to be a massive nuisance for the a few months isn't it...

    Remember that 63.1% did not vote CON on May 7th

    How many people voted for members of the House of Lords?
    [snip]
    posted for the four-hundredth-and-umpeenth time.

    Yes, Sunil, we know.
    Charles - Did I see you in the TV pictures of last night's banquet?

    Nah - I was busy washing my hair
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 48,561

    Off topic, I'm not seeing an easy way back for the Canadian Conservatives:

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-numbers-1.3281210

    http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/results-2015/

    Everything we thought would happen in May 2015 in this country this year happened there: record turnout, centre-left voters uniting behind the challenger, new voters voting overwhelmingly for the Left, and the Tories defeated even though they held their base vote steady.

    Oh, and the polls were almost bang-on - just slightly underticking the Tory vote share.

    I haven't done a marginals analysis - is this available anywhere? - but count only six ultra-marginal near misses for the Conservatives. And it could have been even worse - the Liberals came close in a further 13 seats.

    They will probably need a good 5% swing, and to knock a good 50 seats off the Liberals to have a chance to regain power next time.

    It's not a 1997 style wipe-out, but a pretty clear defeat. They must expand their voter base.

    In Canada the Tories had been on power for a decade in the UK just one term in coalition, while the Liberals were led by a JFK/Blair clone Labour was led by someone who looked like he should be in Big Bang Theory not in Number 10
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Alasdair So what are they paid now and what is the new pay proposal...
  • TomsToms Posts: 1,631
    edited October 2015

    Worthy of Private Eye:

    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/19/opinions/callan-aunt-who-sued-nephew/

    Not just the case itself, but the ponderous consideration of whether the real victim is the insurance companies...

    I suspect she was trying to garner some dough. It reminds me of a case some time ago (was it lore?) in Birmingham I think where a mother was considering suing the council for an injury to her son by a rock that bounced back after he hurled it at a protected church window.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 48,564

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    BJO..SUNIL I was at one tIme a very aggressive Union negotiator..so I have experience of how it all works ...I can assure you that the spaces will be filled..in the meantime the Junior Docs should get out of the way...or come to terms with reality..Lotsa docs in the world..

    Not allowed in though due to immigration rules.

    Vacuums are very expensive to fill and the NHS is already in its worst ever financial state.
    Why do you think that is BJO?

    Mismanagement, too many layers of managers on big salaries, huge pension liabilities particularly those that choose to retire at a ludicrously young age? Those same people then rehired on huge daily contracts? PFI? How about mass immigration and the fact they now have to cope with much bigger numbers?

    Are any of those factors or is it just Lansley?
    Walsgrave:

    'The hospital cost £440 million to build, but Projectco is guaranteed an income of £3.3 billion over 30 years, including facilities contracts.'
    Incredible.

    It would be nice if people took the time to look at external factors before blaming the Tories for everything.
    Brown's PFI madness :D
    Yep! Though of course BJO will spin it so Lansley gets the blame.
    The thing is if he'd actually paid for it properly it would be on the Gov't balance sheet and make his figures look even worse.

    But those are committed future cash flows which can only be got out with the same sort of credit damage as an actual default. Meanwhile the last Labour Gov't were spending the readies on unneeded crap. Borrowing to invest my foot.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,316
    Toms said:

    Worthy of Private Eye:

    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/19/opinions/callan-aunt-who-sued-nephew/

    Not just the case itself, but the ponderous consideration of whether the real victim is the insurance companies...

    I suspect she was trying to garner some dough. It reminds me of a case some time ago (was it lore?) in Birmingham I think where a mother was considering suing the council for an injury to her son by a rock that bounced back after he hurled it at a protected church window.
    Did the insurance company call that an 'Act of God'?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 11,622

    BJO..One thing the Junior Docs..and some others ..never seem to learn..you can never conduct a winning or successful campaign when you are standing outside the gate....and someone else is now doing your old job...

    Yep. But they have the support of both Consultants and GPs if they do walk out.

    In similar strikes there is emergency cover. It will hit mostly planned work. The aim will be to crash political (waiting times) and financial targets. No patient harmed but maximum difficulty for the government.
    That is simply not true. When the junior doctors did the same thing in the 1970s, my father's much needed operation for prostate cancer was postponed. By the time he had it, the cancer had spread and he died. Real harm is caused - to patients and their families.

    I lost a beloved father far too young because junior doctors were more concerned about their own interests than those of their patients. My father was a doctor and would never have done what they did.

    Autres temps, autres moeurs.

    But let's not pretend that no harm is caused.
  • TomsToms Posts: 1,631
    edited October 2015
    AnneJGP said:

    Toms said:

    Worthy of Private Eye:

    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/19/opinions/callan-aunt-who-sued-nephew/

    Not just the case itself, but the ponderous consideration of whether the real victim is the insurance companies...

    I suspect she was trying to garner some dough. It reminds me of a case some time ago (was it lore?) in Birmingham I think where a mother was considering suing the council for an injury to her son by a rock that bounced back after he hurled it at a protected church window.
    Did the insurance company call that an 'Act of God'?
    The details are hazy I'm afraid. It might have been a council building of some sort. It would be quite a challenge to trace the story down. I heard about it several decades ago. It's kind of funny. A genius like Matt could bend it to his will.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Alasdair So what are they paid now and what is the new pay proposal...

    Starting salaries for junior doctors are £22 636 in England. That is unchanged (though there are changes to pay progression that penalise career breaks for maternity or research or indeed anything else). The contentious bit is alterations to overtime banding. This can pay an additional 50% of salary for many hospital posts, and similarly to the General Pracice Training supplement.

    The effect is to cut the overtime payment significantly, so a major disincentive to train in areas such as Emergency medicine, obstetrics or other areas with arduous on call. Payment in low on call specialities such as pathology are relatively unaffected.

    Meanwhile we are importing "physician associates" as non medical assistants to junior doctors at £50 000 per annum. You couldn't make it up etc...

    http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/your-practice/practice-topics/employment/nhs-offering-50k-per-year-for-us-physician-associates-to-practise-in-underdoctored-areas/20010929.fullarticle#comments
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 48,564
    Toms said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Toms said:

    Worthy of Private Eye:

    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/19/opinions/callan-aunt-who-sued-nephew/

    Not just the case itself, but the ponderous consideration of whether the real victim is the insurance companies...

    I suspect she was trying to garner some dough. It reminds me of a case some time ago (was it lore?) in Birmingham I think where a mother was considering suing the council for an injury to her son by a rock that bounced back after he hurled it at a protected church window.
    Did the insurance company call that an 'Act of God'?
    The details are hazy I'm afraid. It might have been a council building of some sort. It would be quite a challenge to trace the story down. I heard about it several decades ago. It's kind of funny. A genius like Matt could bend it to his will.
    Costs should be charged against the complainant in cases like this.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,316
    Cyclefree said:

    BJO..One thing the Junior Docs..and some others ..never seem to learn..you can never conduct a winning or successful campaign when you are standing outside the gate....and someone else is now doing your old job...

    Yep. But they have the support of both Consultants and GPs if they do walk out.

    In similar strikes there is emergency cover. It will hit mostly planned work. The aim will be to crash political (waiting times) and financial targets. No patient harmed but maximum difficulty for the government.
    That is simply not true. When the junior doctors did the same thing in the 1970s, my father's much needed operation for prostate cancer was postponed. By the time he had it, the cancer had spread and he died. Real harm is caused - to patients and their families.

    I lost a beloved father far too young because junior doctors were more concerned about their own interests than those of their patients. My father was a doctor and would never have done what they did.

    Autres temps, autres moeurs.

    But let's not pretend that no harm is caused.
    I also wonder whether the changing patterns of life & careers are having an impact that isn't fully accounted for. Family life is a lot more difficult when both partners work full time, even without dual shifts in one family.

    It was clear to me during my (desk-bound) working life that the need to accommodate the increasing amount of flexible working patterns & things like maternity leave, part-time working, etc, was gradually making life more & more difficult for the people still working full hours & 'normal' patterns.

    The increase in flexibility has been a tremendous boon, but I wonder whether we fully appreciate the (non-monetary) price we need to pay for these things.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 15,668

    Alasdair So what are they paid now and what is the new pay proposal...

    I don't know the numbers involved but it turns on categorisation.

    Junior doctors work plenty of anti-social hours now, as part of their contract. The new proposal is to recategorise (some? all?) anti-social hours as not anti-social hours, thus foregoing the extra pay received by working anti-social hours.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited October 2015
    Foxinsox.. So the choice is clear... do the job for what is on offer and become a qualified Doc...or get out of the way..Can you hear the stampede..
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 22,254
    SeanT said:

    Meanwhile in Turkey, a suggestion from the Turkish that IS open a Consulate in Istanbul:

    https://barnabasfund.org/news/Editorial-Turkey-exposed?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook

    It'll be interesting to see why he said that.

    As an aside, the Armenian genocide was hideous, and a stain on Turkey's past. Their attitude towards denial of the genocide is a stain on their present. There was even a bomb attack on the publisher of a book that stated it was a genocide.

    It's similar to the way many Japanese deny the atrocities they committed in World War 2, except in the case of Turkey the denial's ingrained into their political psyche.

    Turkey has a law that makes it illegal to insult Turkishness, and they use it. Erdogan has also publicly threatened in the past to expel Armenians from Turkey.

    It's a side of the country that is hard to like. You cannot progress as a country unless you accept the mistakes of the past, and the calculated murder of around 1.5 million people is a rather large mistake.

    And I've probably said enough, so partly because of the aforementioned law I'd like to say that Turkey is also a beautiful, historic and enticing country, filled with lots of lovely people. :)
    i just ran with that story on Twitter, and it was quickly pointed out to me that it's almost certainly a hoax. Though the Turkish spy dude does have some very unsavoury links to jihadists, including ISIS
    Thanks for that - if he did say it, I was thinking it might be internal politicking wrt the election.

    Tinfoil hat time: it would not surprise me if our spies had some links to Jihadists, including ISIS, even whilst not officially recognising them. Given their geographical and political situation, Turkey's almost bound to have such links.

    ISTR our security services had contacts with the IRA and other groups throughout the troubles.
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 21,547
    I guarantee, this is five minutes of your life you will be quite happy you never got back.

    Watch this video. Just astonishing.

    https://www.facebook.com/robert.eshbach/videos/1051135241572083/
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Millions of people work unsociable hours..I wont bother listing them because they are so numerous..many of them in fairly dull and boring jobs with modest pay... and very little prospect of advancement into a fairly well paid career.. and all those people have to juggle family life around their employment... why should doctors be any different..
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Cyclefree said:

    BJO..One thing the Junior Docs..and some others ..never seem to learn..you can never conduct a winning or successful campaign when you are standing outside the gate....and someone else is now doing your old job...

    Yep. But they have the support of both Consultants and GPs if they do walk out.

    In similar strikes there is emergency cover. It will hit mostly planned work. The aim will be to crash political (waiting times) and financial targets. No patient harmed but maximum difficulty for the government.
    That is simply not true. When the junior doctors did the same thing in the 1970s, my father's much needed operation for prostate cancer was postponed. By the time he had it, the cancer had spread and he died. Real harm is caused - to patients and their families.

    I lost a beloved father far too young because junior doctors were more concerned about their own interests than those of their patients. My father was a doctor and would never have done what they did.

    Autres temps, autres moeurs.

    But let's not pretend that no harm is caused.
    That strike was before my time, at that time junior doctors were not paid at all for overtime, which was compulsory and often 80 hours per week.

    I am sorry about your father, but all decisions about money and similar issues potentially damage lives. If my Trust spends on one area then it has to find savings elsewhere. We have just lost from my team an experienced specialist nurse who has published evidence of reduced mortality and morbidity as part of cost savings. Puting a price on death and ill health is what commissioners do all the time. It is harsh.

    If recruitment and retention of junior doctors is adversely affected then there is an impact on patient care too. Some Emergency services and departments may be forced to close etc.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited October 2015
    People are not only sick between nine to five...Monday to Friday...why is this suddenly a shock to Doctors..
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 6,354
    taffys said:

    Isn't it more like 75%?

    A contemptible position from those who would have been happy with a labour SNP stitch up, with SNP voting on English matters.

    Somehow it's different then.........
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 10,402
    edited October 2015

    People are not only sick between nine to five...Monday to Friday...why is this suddenly a shock to Doctors..

    Doctors don't work 9 to 5 Monday to Friday as their normal hours. Are you a moron?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 15,668
    Cyclefree said:

    BJO..One thing the Junior Docs..and some others ..never seem to learn..you can never conduct a winning or successful campaign when you are standing outside the gate....and someone else is now doing your old job...

    Yep. But they have the support of both Consultants and GPs if they do walk out.

    In similar strikes there is emergency cover. It will hit mostly planned work. The aim will be to crash political (waiting times) and financial targets. No patient harmed but maximum difficulty for the government.
    That is simply not true. When the junior doctors did the same thing in the 1970s, my father's much needed operation for prostate cancer was postponed. By the time he had it, the cancer had spread and he died. Real harm is caused - to patients and their families.

    I lost a beloved father far too young because junior doctors were more concerned about their own interests than those of their patients. My father was a doctor and would never have done what they did.

    Autres temps, autres moeurs.

    But let's not pretend that no harm is caused.
    that's shocking I'm very sorry to hear.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 6,354
    Jonathan said:

    taffys said:

    So basically 0% of voters voted for Tax Credit Cuts!!!

    Untrue.

    One thing is certain. The voters decisively rejected economic stewardship by the party that is blocking the measures of a democratically elected government.

    So stand aside.

    Tories should really govern with a bit more humility if they know what's good for them. They are in danger of believing their own hype.

    They are missing the LDs.
    Did I miss the Labour humility when they were in power?

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 11,360
    SeanT said:

    I guarantee, this is five minutes of your life you will be quite happy you never got back.

    Watch this video. Just astonishing.

    https://www.facebook.com/robert.eshbach/videos/1051135241572083/

    Remarkable. Thank you.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 6,354
    taffys said:

    ''Nope. Quite the reverse. I saw what governing with a majority on such a low mandate did to Labour 2005-10. If the Tories know what's good for them they will realise that they are NOT popular despite winning under FPTP.''

    Not for the first time, you are sounding more like the worried tory chairman in a marginal than a labour supporter.

    This concern for the tories to do well in 2020 intrigues me...

    No one in their right mind would want Corbyn and his merry band to win - perhaps Jon realises just how bad he would be.
  • SeanT said:

    I guarantee, this is five minutes of your life you will be quite happy you never got back.

    Watch this video. Just astonishing.

    https://www.facebook.com/robert.eshbach/videos/1051135241572083/

    Thanks for sharing Sean.
    Agree, astonishing.

  • FloaterFloater Posts: 6,354

    BJO..One thing the Junior Docs..and some others ..never seem to learn..you can never conduct a winning or successful campaign when you are standing outside the gate....and someone else is now doing your old job...

    Yep. But they have the support of both Consultants and GPs if they do walk out.

    In similar strikes there is emergency cover. It will hit mostly planned work. The aim will be to crash political (waiting times) and financial targets. No patient harmed but maximum difficulty for the government.
    "No patient harmed."

    Do you really believe that?
    No patient harmed would actually be a step forward........
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 14,923
    Jonathan said:

    taffys said:

    ''Tories should really govern with a bit more humility if they know what's good for them. They are in danger of believing their own hype.''

    Like many labourites, you simply can't accept May 2015 can you. The electorate were just stupid right? they can't want tory policies, surely, because their betters such as you have already decided they are the wrong policies.

    Suck it up

    Nope. Quite the reverse. I saw what governing with a majority on such a low mandate did to Labour 2005-10. If the Tories know what's good for them they will realise that they are NOT popular despite winning under FPTP.
    More popular than Blair was in 2001. Was that not a mandate?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 6,354

    Foxinsox Various speakers in the HOC this week claim they are not taking a pay cut..who is right..

    I know a gp who pays for his 2 children to go to private school - the fees at one of them is circa 25k a year.

    He also just purchased another house for a large sum, very nice with indoor pool and they are going to be spending a fair bit on doing it up.... oh and they will keep the existing house to live in for now with an eye on renting it out in future.

    He is not really shy about telling what he earns and it is a very tidy figure.

    Good luck to him, but he does very well indeed thank you.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 48,561
    Is Charlie Sheen comtemplating a presidential run?

    'This former A-list actor with a reputation for craziness is currently contemplating a Presidential run. Inspired by Donald Trump, he intends to run on the Republican ticket and with some help from spin city, he thinks he may win.'

    http://thegossiplife.com/2015/10/20/blind-item-19102015/
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Alistair said:

    People are not only sick between nine to five...Monday to Friday...why is this suddenly a shock to Doctors..

    Doctors don't work 9 to 5 Monday to Friday as their normal hours. Are you a moron?
    The majority of doctors on duty after 5 and at weekends are junior doctors. The proposed contract penalises them in favour of those working 9-5 such as pathology.

    You would have thought that a government that wanted more staff to work weekends might want to incentivise them to do so, rather than punish those that do so. They do not seem to understand market forces!
  • Floater said:

    Foxinsox Various speakers in the HOC this week claim they are not taking a pay cut..who is right..

    I know a gp who pays for his 2 children to go to private school - the fees at one of them is circa 25k a year.

    He also just purchased another house for a large sum, very nice with indoor pool and they are going to be spending a fair bit on doing it up.... oh and they will keep the existing house to live in for now with an eye on renting it out in future.

    He is not really shy about telling what he earns and it is a very tidy figure.

    Good luck to him, but he does very well indeed thank you.
    My wife had a consultation at a private hospital on Monday, £230 for 15 minutes. The doctors car park was full of Porsche's and Range Rovers.

    They all work in the NHS and do private work as well, this is what the junior doctors should be aiming at.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 24,020

    Floater said:

    Foxinsox Various speakers in the HOC this week claim they are not taking a pay cut..who is right..

    I know a gp who pays for his 2 children to go to private school - the fees at one of them is circa 25k a year.

    He also just purchased another house for a large sum, very nice with indoor pool and they are going to be spending a fair bit on doing it up.... oh and they will keep the existing house to live in for now with an eye on renting it out in future.

    He is not really shy about telling what he earns and it is a very tidy figure.

    Good luck to him, but he does very well indeed thank you.
    My wife had a consultation at a private hospital on Monday, £230 for 15 minutes. The doctors car park was full of Porsche's and Range Rovers.

    They all work in the NHS and do private work as well, this is what the junior doctors should be aiming at.
    I'm not sure there is much consulting in A&E!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 48,564
    Workie :D

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 48,561
    ABC/WashPost GOP National Poll

    Donald Trump: 32%
    Ben Carson: 22%
    Marco Rubio: 10%
    Jeb Bush: 7%
    Ted Cruz: 6%
    Carly Fiorina: 5%
    Chris Christie: 3%
    Mike Huckabee: 3%
    John Kasich: 2%
    Rand Paul: 2%
    Lindsey Graham: 1%
    George Pataki: 1%
    Rick Santorum: *
    Bobby Jindal: 0%
    Jim Gilmore: NA
    No opinion: 2%
    Other (vol.): 1%
    None of these (vol.): 1%
    Would not vote (vol.): 0%

    Candidate Republicans think is most likely to be nominee:
    Trump: 42%
    Carson: 15%
    Jeb: 12%
    Rubio: 5%
    Cruz: 3%

    Candidate Republicans think is most likely to win general election:
    Trump: 43%
    Carson: 16%
    Jeb: 13%
    Rubio: 11%
    Cruz: 4%
    Fiorina: 3%
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-leads-expectations-shows-strength-attributes-poll/story?id=34599211
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,272
    edited October 2015
    I can now reveal why my wife has been smiling so much the last couple of days: Clint Eastwood's trailer is parked outside her office window, and Tom Hanks' trailer is a few yards away. They are filming 'Sully' (the pilot who landed the plane in the Hudson) around Atlanta for 3 weeks, and will be shooting at the college where my wife works until early next week.

    Joe who?

    I was sworn to secrecy as they were trying to keep it quiet, but as the media now has it.........
  • rcs1000 said:

    Floater said:

    Foxinsox Various speakers in the HOC this week claim they are not taking a pay cut..who is right..

    I know a gp who pays for his 2 children to go to private school - the fees at one of them is circa 25k a year.

    He also just purchased another house for a large sum, very nice with indoor pool and they are going to be spending a fair bit on doing it up.... oh and they will keep the existing house to live in for now with an eye on renting it out in future.

    He is not really shy about telling what he earns and it is a very tidy figure.

    Good luck to him, but he does very well indeed thank you.
    My wife had a consultation at a private hospital on Monday, £230 for 15 minutes. The doctors car park was full of Porsche's and Range Rovers.

    They all work in the NHS and do private work as well, this is what the junior doctors should be aiming at.
    I'm not sure there is much consulting in A&E!
    Obviously, but once they leave that role the world is their lobster!
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Floater said:

    Foxinsox Various speakers in the HOC this week claim they are not taking a pay cut..who is right..

    I know a gp who pays for his 2 children to go to private school - the fees at one of them is circa 25k a year.

    He also just purchased another house for a large sum, very nice with indoor pool and they are going to be spending a fair bit on doing it up.... oh and they will keep the existing house to live in for now with an eye on renting it out in future.

    He is not really shy about telling what he earns and it is a very tidy figure.

    Good luck to him, but he does very well indeed thank you.
    If it is so easy to make that sort of money then why are there so many unfilled posts? The GP scheme in the East Midlands has a 50% vacancy rate.

    Those cars in the private hospital carpark are not owned by the juniors in Casualty either!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 23,918
    SeanT said:

    I guarantee, this is five minutes of your life you will be quite happy you never got back.

    Watch this video. Just astonishing.

    https://www.facebook.com/robert.eshbach/videos/1051135241572083/

    Thanks for the link. Great stuff.
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