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  • HYUFD said:

    Is Charlie Sheen comtemplating a presidential run?

    'This former A-list actor with a reputation for craziness is currently contemplating a Presidential run. Inspired by Donald Trump, he intends to run on the Republican ticket and with some help from spin city, he thinks he may win.'

    http://thegossiplife.com/2015/10/20/blind-item-19102015/

    Martin Sheen would be the interesting one to run.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Alasdair Am I a moron.. some would say yes..bu t I am also sick of the medical profession claiming they are hard done by..They are not... and unsocial hours are part of the deal..as in so many other professions including mine..Bus Drivers.. Police..Military...Cleaners..Restaurant workers. Power workers.. train drivers etc etc...Suddenly the Hippocratic oath is reduced from a noble aspiration to a claim for better pay and and easy life..Get over it..If you don't like it then leave and settle for a more sociable hours job and the rather limited rewards it would bring
  • rcs1000 said:

    Floater said:

    Foxinsox Various speakers in the HOC this week claim they are not taking a pay cut..who is right..

    I know a gp who pays for his 2 children to go to private school - the fees at one of them is circa 25k a year.

    He also just purchased another house for a large sum, very nice with indoor pool and they are going to be spending a fair bit on doing it up.... oh and they will keep the existing house to live in for now with an eye on renting it out in future.

    He is not really shy about telling what he earns and it is a very tidy figure.

    Good luck to him, but he does very well indeed thank you.
    My wife had a consultation at a private hospital on Monday, £230 for 15 minutes. The doctors car park was full of Porsche's and Range Rovers.

    They all work in the NHS and do private work as well, this is what the junior doctors should be aiming at.
    I'm not sure there is much consulting in A&E!
    Obviously, but once they leave that role the world is their lobster!
    Lovely Arthurism

  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,127
    presumably now there is no Joe, Hillary's numbers will go up even more.

    I think he made the right decision. I said a while back that it was getting way late to run, and he would have to run a savagely negative campaign to have even a remote chance of catching Hillary, and I doubt he had the desire to do that.

    If I could see it I'm damned sure he saw it long before I did.
  • Floater said:

    Foxinsox Various speakers in the HOC this week claim they are not taking a pay cut..who is right..

    I know a gp who pays for his 2 children to go to private school - the fees at one of them is circa 25k a year.

    He also just purchased another house for a large sum, very nice with indoor pool and they are going to be spending a fair bit on doing it up.... oh and they will keep the existing house to live in for now with an eye on renting it out in future.

    He is not really shy about telling what he earns and it is a very tidy figure.

    Good luck to him, but he does very well indeed thank you.
    If it is so easy to make that sort of money then why are there so many unfilled posts? The GP scheme in the East Midlands has a 50% vacancy rate.

    Those cars in the private hospital carpark are not owned by the juniors in Casualty either!
    They will be when they are seniors though
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 46,102
    The death of Michael Meacher today has created an early test for Corbyn in an Oldham by-election, UKIP came second last time and will push the seat hard and should increase their vote. Meacher also tried to challenge Brown in 2007 with John McConnell, little did they know 8 years later their wing would control the party!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 46,102

    HYUFD said:

    Is Charlie Sheen comtemplating a presidential run?

    'This former A-list actor with a reputation for craziness is currently contemplating a Presidential run. Inspired by Donald Trump, he intends to run on the Republican ticket and with some help from spin city, he thinks he may win.'

    http://thegossiplife.com/2015/10/20/blind-item-19102015/

    Martin Sheen would be the interesting one to run.
    Indeed but he would certainly not be running on the GOP ticket and does not have 'the reputation for craziness' of his son
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 46,127
    Well it sounds like Junior Doctors earn too little and senior Doctors earn too much. Flatten it out a touch ?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 9,260
    Pulpstar said:

    Well it sounds like Junior Doctors earn too little and senior Doctors earn too much. Flatten it out a touch ?

    Seems reasonable - I've never quite managed to understand why GPs get paid so much.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Floater said:

    Foxinsox Various speakers in the HOC this week claim they are not taking a pay cut..who is right..

    I know a gp who pays for his 2 children to go to private school - the fees at one of them is circa 25k a year.

    He also just purchased another house for a large sum, very nice with indoor pool and they are going to be spending a fair bit on doing it up.... oh and they will keep the existing house to live in for now with an eye on renting it out in future.

    He is not really shy about telling what he earns and it is a very tidy figure.

    Good luck to him, but he does very well indeed thank you.
    If it is so easy to make that sort of money then why are there so many unfilled posts? The GP scheme in the East Midlands has a 50% vacancy rate.

    Those cars in the private hospital carpark are not owned by the juniors in Casualty either!
    They will be when they are seniors though
    No. The staff in casualty are not in surgical training schemes, they are training in Emergency Medicine.

    If you want junior trainees to only be motivated by potential private practice then we will be very short of oncologists, burns specialists, renal physicians, paediatricians, obstetricians etc etc.

  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,127
    Today is 'Back to the Future' day!
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Floater..I have many friends in the medical profession and to be fair they all work very hard..but no harder or longer than a lot of other people..and the rewards are considerable..a very good friend of mine manages to own a house in Port Grimaud..with a massive boat moored at the bottom of his garden on its own private jetty..A mock Tudor manor house in a lot of acres South of London..the gate house lodge alone would bring in a mill or so. a very tasty and large mews house in a posh end of Chelsea and the two kids go to very expensive schools...he works fewer hours than I do..but good luck to him.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Well it sounds like Junior Doctors earn too little and senior Doctors earn too much. Flatten it out a touch ?

    Seems reasonable - I've never quite managed to understand why GPs get paid so much.
    Yet still so many vacancies. After all its money for old rope isn't it?

    When I speak to my GP colleagues one of the things that gets them down the most is the amount of abuse that they get from the media.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is Charlie Sheen comtemplating a presidential run?

    'This former A-list actor with a reputation for craziness is currently contemplating a Presidential run. Inspired by Donald Trump, he intends to run on the Republican ticket and with some help from spin city, he thinks he may win.'

    http://thegossiplife.com/2015/10/20/blind-item-19102015/

    Martin Sheen would be the interesting one to run.
    Indeed but he would certainly not be running on the GOP ticket and does not have 'the reputation for craziness' of his son
    Fair points.

  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,175
    And in other news..Wikileaks is reportedly about to release the contents of CIA chief John Brennan's personal email account.

    Bearing in mind Wikileaks is under scrutiny for being a Russian IC directed outfit, his really isn't going to end well....for Wikileaks.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    FOXINSOX..Poor things...my heart bleeds for them.
  • Floater said:

    Foxinsox Various speakers in the HOC this week claim they are not taking a pay cut..who is right..

    I know a gp who pays for his 2 children to go to private school - the fees at one of them is circa 25k a year.

    He also just purchased another house for a large sum, very nice with indoor pool and they are going to be spending a fair bit on doing it up.... oh and they will keep the existing house to live in for now with an eye on renting it out in future.

    He is not really shy about telling what he earns and it is a very tidy figure.

    Good luck to him, but he does very well indeed thank you.
    If it is so easy to make that sort of money then why are there so many unfilled posts? The GP scheme in the East Midlands has a 50% vacancy rate.

    Those cars in the private hospital carpark are not owned by the juniors in Casualty either!
    They will be when they are seniors though
    No. The staff in casualty are not in surgical training schemes, they are training in Emergency Medicine.

    If you want junior trainees to only be motivated by potential private practice then we will be very short of oncologists, burns specialists, renal physicians, paediatricians, obstetricians etc etc.

    Can they branch out after emergency medicine training? Thought I read somewhere that many of them train in anaesthetics
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    FOXINSOX..Poor things...my heart bleeds for them.

    I am not at all convinced that you have a heart at all, let alone one that can bleed.
  • tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Well it sounds like Junior Doctors earn too little and senior Doctors earn too much. Flatten it out a touch ?

    Seems reasonable - I've never quite managed to understand why GPs get paid so much.
    Yet still so many vacancies. After all its money for old rope isn't it?

    When I speak to my GP colleagues one of the things that gets them down the most is the amount of abuse that they get from the media.
    So do estate agents, bankers, traffic wardens etc
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,127
    Y0kel said:

    And in other news..Wikileaks is reportedly about to release the contents of CIA chief John Brennan's personal email account.

    Bearing in mind Wikileaks is under scrutiny for being a Russian IC directed outfit, his really isn't going to end well....for Wikileaks.

    His personal account is on AOL. The 'hack' was to come up with a ruse to get the password changed.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 23,420

    rcs1000 said:

    Floater said:

    Foxinsox Various speakers in the HOC this week claim they are not taking a pay cut..who is right..

    I know a gp who pays for his 2 children to go to private school - the fees at one of them is circa 25k a year.

    He also just purchased another house for a large sum, very nice with indoor pool and they are going to be spending a fair bit on doing it up.... oh and they will keep the existing house to live in for now with an eye on renting it out in future.

    He is not really shy about telling what he earns and it is a very tidy figure.

    Good luck to him, but he does very well indeed thank you.
    My wife had a consultation at a private hospital on Monday, £230 for 15 minutes. The doctors car park was full of Porsche's and Range Rovers.

    They all work in the NHS and do private work as well, this is what the junior doctors should be aiming at.
    I'm not sure there is much consulting in A&E!
    Obviously, but once they leave that role the world is their lobster!
    I'm not sure that's how it works. I think you rise up through your speciality (gastroenterology, cardiovascular, A&E, etc.)

    In most of these, of course, you become better and more specialised, and more of an expert. And you then get lucrative private consulting work. ("Let me refer you to a specialist...")

    But I don't think that holds true for A&E. If you find yourself in that speciality, the question is "Well, doctor, I was cleaning up in the nude, when I slipped and the plastic figure went into my.... my... bottom..."
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 23,420
    Goodness me: there really is no reason to build Hinkley Point B.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,175
    edited October 2015
    Tim_B said:

    Y0kel said:

    And in other news..Wikileaks is reportedly about to release the contents of CIA chief John Brennan's personal email account.

    Bearing in mind Wikileaks is under scrutiny for being a Russian IC directed outfit, his really isn't going to end well....for Wikileaks.

    His personal account is on AOL. The 'hack' was to come up with a ruse to get the password changed.
    It goes much deeper Tim. Brennan, being who he is, is a convenient target, but its the information direction via Assange and his mates that will become the story in time.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 46,127
    rcs1000 said:

    Goodness me: there really is no reason to build Hinkley Point B.

    It's already built - do you mean point c :D ?
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Floater said:

    Foxinsox Various speakers in the HOC this week claim they are not taking a pay cut..who is right..

    I know a gp who pays for his 2 children to go to private school - the fees at one of them is circa 25k a year.

    He also just purchased another house for a large sum, very nice with indoor pool and they are going to be spending a fair bit on doing it up.... oh and they will keep the existing house to live in for now with an eye on renting it out in future.

    He is not really shy about telling what he earns and it is a very tidy figure.

    Good luck to him, but he does very well indeed thank you.
    My wife had a consultation at a private hospital on Monday, £230 for 15 minutes. The doctors car park was full of Porsche's and Range Rovers.

    They all work in the NHS and do private work as well, this is what the junior doctors should be aiming at.
    I'm not sure there is much consulting in A&E!
    Obviously, but once they leave that role the world is their lobster!
    I'm not sure that's how it works. I think you rise up through your speciality (gastroenterology, cardiovascular, A&E, etc.)

    In most of these, of course, you become better and more specialised, and more of an expert. And you then get lucrative private consulting work. ("Let me refer you to a specialist...")

    But I don't think that holds true for A&E. If you find yourself in that speciality, the question is "Well, doctor, I was cleaning up in the nude, when I slipped and the plastic figure went into my.... my... bottom..."
    LOL!

    As I said some of them retrain into specialist roles, such as interior decorators or gynecologists
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 46,102

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is Charlie Sheen comtemplating a presidential run?

    'This former A-list actor with a reputation for craziness is currently contemplating a Presidential run. Inspired by Donald Trump, he intends to run on the Republican ticket and with some help from spin city, he thinks he may win.'

    http://thegossiplife.com/2015/10/20/blind-item-19102015/

    Martin Sheen would be the interesting one to run.
    Indeed but he would certainly not be running on the GOP ticket and does not have 'the reputation for craziness' of his son
    Fair points.

    Yes, anyway will be interesting to see if anything develops
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 46,127

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Well it sounds like Junior Doctors earn too little and senior Doctors earn too much. Flatten it out a touch ?

    Seems reasonable - I've never quite managed to understand why GPs get paid so much.
    Yet still so many vacancies. After all its money for old rope isn't it?

    When I speak to my GP colleagues one of the things that gets them down the most is the amount of abuse that they get from the media.
    Well you can't just career change to being a GP. Perhaps GPs need to do like the police have done - create the GP equivalent of PCSOs to tell people "It's a cold, take some paracetomol".
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 23,420
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Goodness me: there really is no reason to build Hinkley Point B.

    It's already built - do you mean point c :D ?
    Yes: clearly the Black Pig Shiraz is affecting my posting...
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited October 2015

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Well it sounds like Junior Doctors earn too little and senior Doctors earn too much. Flatten it out a touch ?

    Seems reasonable - I've never quite managed to understand why GPs get paid so much.
    Yet still so many vacancies. After all its money for old rope isn't it?

    When I speak to my GP colleagues one of the things that gets them down the most is the amount of abuse that they get from the media.
    What guff. These are people working for the 'envy of the world', celebrated in Olympic opening ceremonies.

    Perhaps if they'd stopped whinging after scoring such a fabulous deal under the previous Labour government they might not be getting so much stick.

    And what's wrong with a few of them working weekends or having later appointments, for the convenience of the public who are paying for them? Loads of other people can do it. FFS My barbers can manage it without complaining. I do it. Even the otherwise useless banks have wised up to providing a service their customers want.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited October 2015
    HYUFD said:

    The death of Michael Meacher today has created an early test for Corbyn in an Oldham by-election, UKIP came second last time and will push the seat hard and should increase their vote. Meacher also tried to challenge Brown in 2007 with John McConnell, little did they know 8 years later their wing would control the party!

    I do enjoy by-elections. The Newark one was particularly entertaining. If I remember correctly, both the Tory and UKIP candidates were very civil towards each other. Unlike other by-elections which felt slightly hostile.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,127
    Y0kel said:

    Tim_B said:

    Y0kel said:

    And in other news..Wikileaks is reportedly about to release the contents of CIA chief John Brennan's personal email account.

    Bearing in mind Wikileaks is under scrutiny for being a Russian IC directed outfit, his really isn't going to end well....for Wikileaks.

    His personal account is on AOL. The 'hack' was to come up with a ruse to get the password changed.
    It goes much deeper Tim. Brennan, being who he is, is a convenient target, but its the information direction via Assange and his mates that will become the story in time.
    Maybe Trey Gowdy should give him a call ;)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 23,420

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Floater said:

    Foxinsox Various speakers in the HOC this week claim they are not taking a pay cut..who is right..

    I know a gp who pays for his 2 children to go to private school - the fees at one of them is circa 25k a year.

    He also just purchased another house for a large sum, very nice with indoor pool and they are going to be spending a fair bit on doing it up.... oh and they will keep the existing house to live in for now with an eye on renting it out in future.

    He is not really shy about telling what he earns and it is a very tidy figure.

    Good luck to him, but he does very well indeed thank you.
    My wife had a consultation at a private hospital on Monday, £230 for 15 minutes. The doctors car park was full of Porsche's and Range Rovers.

    They all work in the NHS and do private work as well, this is what the junior doctors should be aiming at.
    I'm not sure there is much consulting in A&E!
    Obviously, but once they leave that role the world is their lobster!
    I'm not sure that's how it works. I think you rise up through your speciality (gastroenterology, cardiovascular, A&E, etc.)

    In most of these, of course, you become better and more specialised, and more of an expert. And you then get lucrative private consulting work. ("Let me refer you to a specialist...")

    But I don't think that holds true for A&E. If you find yourself in that speciality, the question is "Well, doctor, I was cleaning up in the nude, when I slipped and the plastic figure went into my.... my... bottom..."
    LOL!

    As I said some of them retrain into specialist roles, such as interior decorators or gynecologists
    No doubt true.

    About a decade ago, aged about 30, I went skiing with friends. Among the group were a GP and a consultant in A&E. They had been at school together, gone to different universities, but this was the first time they'd hung out together for 12 years or so.

    One, Matt, was the A&E doc. He had a never ending set of stories about the idiocy of man. Many of these stories involved orifices. But we also heard about horrendous hours, violence from drunk patients, and - considering the amount of training - not a lot of money.

    The other, Ric, was the GP. He worked fewer hours, in a great deal easier environment, and for a *lot* more money.

    After the holiday, Matt gave up being an A&E doctor and retrained as a GP.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 1,710
    john_zims said:

    @PClipp

    bigjohnowls
    and of the 25% that did I am pretty sure100% thought Tax Credits were to be frozen not cut.
    So basically 0% of voters voted for Tax Credit Cuts!!!

    Are you saying, Mr Owls, that the Tories came into office on the basis of a fraudulent prospectus?''

    Can you remind us where cutting the 10p tax rate was in the 2005 Labour manifesto or the tripling of student fees was in the 2010 Lib Dem manifesto ?

    That was not in the 2010 Lib Dem manifesto, Mr Zims, as you well know. It was a Tory policy that was imposed as Coalition Government policy by the Tories. Very sneaky of you with that one, Mr Zims.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,127
    Just saw Biden's speech in full - he took a few shots at Hillary. It'll be interesting to see how long that goes on, and if so what effect it has. He's a party man so will presumably realize it's not a good idea.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 46,102
    MP_SE said:

    HYUFD said:

    The death of Michael Meacher today has created an early test for Corbyn in an Oldham by-election, UKIP came second last time and will push the seat hard and should increase their vote. Meacher also tried to challenge Brown in 2007 with John McConnell, little did they know 8 years later their wing would control the party!

    I do enjoy by-elections. The Newark one was particularly entertaining. If I remember correctly, both the Tory and UKIP candidates were very civil towards each other. Unlike other by-elections which felt slightly hostile.
    Indeed, I expect a Labour hold but their majority could be cut
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 11,066

    Cyclefree said:

    BJO..One thing the Junior Docs..and some others ..never seem to learn..you can never conduct a winning or successful campaign when you are standing outside the gate....and someone else is now doing your old job...

    Yep. But they have the support of both Consultants and GPs if they do walk out.

    In similar strikes there is emergency cover. It will hit mostly planned work. The aim will be to crash political (waiting times) and financial targets. No patient harmed but maximum difficulty for the government.
    That is simply not true. When the junior doctors did the same thing in the 1970s, my father's much needed operation for prostate cancer was postponed. By the time he had it, the cancer had spread and he died. Real harm is caused - to patients and their families.

    I lost a beloved father far too young because junior doctors were more concerned about their own interests than those of their patients. My father was a doctor and would never have done what they did.

    Autres temps, autres moeurs.

    But let's not pretend that no harm is caused.
    That strike was before my time, at that time junior doctors were not paid at all for overtime, which was compulsory and often 80 hours per week.

    I am sorry about your father, but all decisions about money and similar issues potentially damage lives. If my Trust spends on one area then it has to find savings elsewhere. We have just lost from my team an experienced specialist nurse who has published evidence of reduced mortality and morbidity as part of cost savings. Puting a price on death and ill health is what commissioners do all the time. It is harsh.

    If recruitment and retention of junior doctors is adversely affected then there is an impact on patient care too. Some Emergency services and departments may be forced to close etc.
    This may all be true. But you said that no patient would be harmed by the strike and I was calling you out on that. It's not true. All decisions have consequences. True. The decision by junior doctors to strike - if that is what it is - will have consequences, potentially terminal ones for patients. And doctors should not pretend otherwise nor pretend that they have some unimpeachable claim to the moral high ground.

    The decision to have a health system which rations by queuing means that some patients die earlier than they should. Maybe it's time to see whether other different systems have something to teach us about how to run matters better.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 8,575
    edited October 2015
    Has anyone posted Jim Murphy piece in the new Statesman?

    Labour loyalty placed over what he believed right on the Syria vote and now regrets that.. an not resigning.
  • GasmanGasman Posts: 104
    A few points with regard to junior doctors salaries (and by extension senior doctors as well). I was a junior doctor until relatively recently, so I have some knowledge of the issues.

    My (probably rather unusual) view is that the main problem is the existence of national pay scales. There is no good reason why an A+E consultant in Surrey should be paid the same as a dermatologist in Rotherham - costs of living are very different, the jobs are very different. If you disagree that national pay scales are wrong then presumably you'd want to abolish London weighting?
    Because everyone is paid the same no-one knows what the correct pay is - the market isn't there to tell us (and I don't think Jeremy Hunt has much of a clue).The "correct" pay may be higher or lower than current pay, we don't know, although the much complained about rates of pay for locums suggest it should be rather higher in A+E at least.
    Although I am naturally disinclined to support strikes I don't see any alternative in this case - in most industries people who don't like a change in terms can look for a job elsewhere - here all the "elsewheres" have exactly the same contracts. I particularly dislike hearing from people both within and without the profession that we shouldn't strike because patient might have treatment delayed or similar - it's a job! If it doesn't pay enough then don't do it. It is the governments responsibility to staff the NHS appropriately, not ours.

    On the current offer, what should be remembered is that there has already been a large pay cut over the last 5 or 6 years, as pay rises have not kept up with inflation by quite some distance - it's just people don't notice that so much. To be honest it's not just salary - over the years there has been a general degradation in working conditions. My study budget is lower now than it was 10 years ago, so I have to pay for a significant part of my (compulsory) CPD out of my own pocket. GMC fees, Indemnity fees and all the other costs are also not linked to salary decreases. There are also countless little penny pinching things everywhere (no milk for tea and coffee for example) that save a few pounds, but make work less pleasant.

    Australia, New Zealand and Canada will probably fill up with British doctors at some point, but until then anyone with any sense and no ties should be heading that way - better pay, better conditions and just treated with a bit more respect.

    And finally, if consultants and GPs don't support the juniors in this then we will deserve everything we will inevitably get next.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,284
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Well it sounds like Junior Doctors earn too little and senior Doctors earn too much. Flatten it out a touch ?

    Seems reasonable - I've never quite managed to understand why GPs get paid so much.
    Yet still so many vacancies. After all its money for old rope isn't it?

    When I speak to my GP colleagues one of the things that gets them down the most is the amount of abuse that they get from the media.
    Well you can't just career change to being a GP. Perhaps GPs need to do like the police have done - create the GP equivalent of PCSOs to tell people "It's a cold, take some paracetomol".
    One thing we really do need is for GPs to be equipped with staff whose main skill is Googling symptoms. If that was done in a sort of triage way, it would help an awful lot with diagnosis.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 12,382
    edited October 2015
    SeanT said:

    I guarantee, this is five minutes of your life you will be quite happy you never got back.

    Watch this video. Just astonishing.

    https://www.facebook.com/robert.eshbach/videos/1051135241572083/

    That bloody Grand Mufti..

    Bu,t tasteless jokes apart, thanks for posting it.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 21,371
    I'm not betting on the by-election until I've seen how Labour select their candidate. Given the selections made so far by the leadership team, the chances of a controversial figure who might become the focal point of the by-election are non-negligible.

    Labour should be very good value at 1/6 in this constituency but the risk of later finding that I've bet on a nutcase puts me off.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 46,127
    AnneJGP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Well it sounds like Junior Doctors earn too little and senior Doctors earn too much. Flatten it out a touch ?

    Seems reasonable - I've never quite managed to understand why GPs get paid so much.
    Yet still so many vacancies. After all its money for old rope isn't it?

    When I speak to my GP colleagues one of the things that gets them down the most is the amount of abuse that they get from the media.
    Well you can't just career change to being a GP. Perhaps GPs need to do like the police have done - create the GP equivalent of PCSOs to tell people "It's a cold, take some paracetomol".
    One thing we really do need is for GPs to be equipped with staff whose main skill is Googling symptoms. If that was done in a sort of triage way, it would help an awful lot with diagnosis.
    My last trip to the Doctor was to diagnose what my 'stomach' problem was. The 5-10 minutes I spent in there really was a waste. Picking up the tube from reception and sending them back the goodies to a lab was all I needed to do... campolybacter ! But you need to book a doctor appointment to get the 'tube'...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 46,127
    antifrank said:

    I'm not betting on the by-election until I've seen how Labour select their candidate. Given the selections made so far by the leadership team, the chances of a controversial figure who might become the focal point of the by-election are non-negligible.

    Labour should be very good value at 1/6 in this constituency but the risk of later finding that I've bet on a nutcase puts me off.

    Who is offering 1-6 ?
  • antifrank said:

    I'm not betting on the by-election until I've seen how Labour select their candidate. Given the selections made so far by the leadership team, the chances of a controversial figure who might become the focal point of the by-election are non-negligible.

    Labour should be very good value at 1/6 in this constituency but the risk of later finding that I've bet on a nutcase puts me off.

    Owen Jones please or Steve Coogan....
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 21,371
    Pulpstar said:

    antifrank said:

    I'm not betting on the by-election until I've seen how Labour select their candidate. Given the selections made so far by the leadership team, the chances of a controversial figure who might become the focal point of the by-election are non-negligible.

    Labour should be very good value at 1/6 in this constituency but the risk of later finding that I've bet on a nutcase puts me off.

    Who is offering 1-6 ?
    Ladbrokes.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited October 2015
    AnneJGP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Well it sounds like Junior Doctors earn too little and senior Doctors earn too much. Flatten it out a touch ?

    Seems reasonable - I've never quite managed to understand why GPs get paid so much.
    Yet still so many vacancies. After all its money for old rope isn't it?

    When I speak to my GP colleagues one of the things that gets them down the most is the amount of abuse that they get from the media.
    Well you can't just career change to being a GP. Perhaps GPs need to do like the police have done - create the GP equivalent of PCSOs to tell people "It's a cold, take some paracetomol".
    One thing we really do need is for GPs to be equipped with staff whose main skill is Googling symptoms. If that was done in a sort of triage way, it would help an awful lot with diagnosis.
    Patients can do that already! With advances in robotics, AI and diagnostics, the role of many GP's will be rendered redundant, easily within the next 20/30 years.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 11,066
    Gasman said:

    A few points with regard to junior doctors salaries (and by extension senior doctors as well). I was a junior doctor until relatively recently, so I have some knowledge of the issues.

    Because everyone is paid the same no-one knows what the correct pay is - the market isn't there to tell us (and I don't think Jeremy Hunt has much of a clue).The "correct" pay may be higher or lower than current pay, we don't know, although the much complained about rates of pay for locums suggest it should be rather higher in A+E at least.
    Although I am naturally disinclined to support strikes I don't see any alternative in this case - in most industries people who don't like a change in terms can look for a job elsewhere - here all the "elsewheres" have exactly the same contracts. I particularly dislike hearing from people both within and without the profession that we shouldn't strike because patient might have treatment delayed or similar - it's a job! If it doesn't pay enough then don't do it. It is the governments responsibility to staff the NHS appropriately, not ours.

    On the current offer, what should be remembered is that there has already been a large pay cut over the last 5 or 6 years, as pay rises have not kept up with inflation by quite some distance - it's just people don't notice that so much. To be honest it's not just salary - over the years there has been a general degradation in working conditions. My study budget is lower now than it was 10 years ago, so I have to pay for a significant part of my (compulsory) CPD out of my own pocket. GMC fees, Indemnity fees and all the other costs are also not linked to salary decreases. There are also countless little penny pinching things everywhere (no milk for tea and coffee for example) that save a few pounds, but make work less pleasant.

    Australia, New Zealand and Canada will probably fill up with British doctors at some point, but until then anyone with any sense and no ties should be heading that way - better pay, better conditions and just treated with a bit more respect.

    And finally, if consultants and GPs don't support the juniors in this then we will deserve everything we will inevitably get next.

    Do those countries have an NHS like here? Or a different system?

    I understand doctors' concerns but it seems to me that they are both wedded to a system based on rationing and on screwing down costs i.e. paying doctors as little as they can get away with with no marketisation and also complaining that such a system does not respond to market incentives. Well, if you want to be paid your market worth you need, perhaps, don't you think, to move away from your insistence on a non-market health system?

  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    FOXINSOX..Poor things...my heart bleeds for them.

    I am not at all convinced that you have a heart at all, let alone one that can bleed.
    I'm not a (medical) doctor, but I hope that's not a formal diagnosis based on years of expensive specialist training!
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,127
    Heard today -

    "I tried reading Trump's book. I just couldn't get into it - every chapter was like chapter 11"
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 11,066
    SeanT said:

    I guarantee, this is five minutes of your life you will be quite happy you never got back.

    Watch this video. Just astonishing.

    https://www.facebook.com/robert.eshbach/videos/1051135241572083/

    Astonishing. And very moving. Thank you.

  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,284
    watford30 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Well it sounds like Junior Doctors earn too little and senior Doctors earn too much. Flatten it out a touch ?

    Seems reasonable - I've never quite managed to understand why GPs get paid so much.
    Yet still so many vacancies. After all its money for old rope isn't it?

    When I speak to my GP colleagues one of the things that gets them down the most is the amount of abuse that they get from the media.
    Well you can't just career change to being a GP. Perhaps GPs need to do like the police have done - create the GP equivalent of PCSOs to tell people "It's a cold, take some paracetomol".
    One thing we really do need is for GPs to be equipped with staff whose main skill is Googling symptoms. If that was done in a sort of triage way, it would help an awful lot with diagnosis.
    Patients can do that already! With advances in robotics, AI and diagnostics, the role of many GP's will be rendered redundant, easily within the next 20/30 years.
    You're right, of course - but it's only some patients who can do it already. Plus, it would work a lot more smoothly if the Googling were within the system.

    So the Google-savvy patients would first discuss their search results with the Google-fu tech, wouldn't take much time, so that a first-level screening happened prior to GP. (Worthwhile because not all Google-savvy people are as savvy as they think they are.)
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 10,381
    edited October 2015

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    BJO..SUNIL I was at one tIme a very aggressive Union negotiator..so I have experience of how it all works ...I can assure you that the spaces will be filled..in the meantime the Junior Docs should get out of the way...or come to terms with reality..Lotsa docs in the world..

    Not allowed in though due to immigration rules.

    Vacuums are very expensive to fill and the NHS is already in its worst ever financial state.
    Why do you think that is BJO?

    Mismanagement, too many layers of managers on big salaries, huge pension liabilities particularly those that choose to retire at a ludicrously young age? Those same people then rehired on huge daily contracts? PFI? How about mass immigration and the fact they now have to cope with much bigger numbers?

    Are any of those factors or is it just Lansley?
    Walsgrave:

    'The hospital cost £440 million to build, but Projectco is guaranteed an income of £3.3 billion over 30 years, including facilities contracts.'
    Incredible.

    It would be nice if people took the time to look at external factors before blaming the Tories for everything.
    Brown's PFI madness :D
    Yep! Though of course BJO will spin it so Lansley gets the blame.
    Browns PFI madness.


    I never supported PFI, and will never defend it

    It was mortgaging the future

    I fought tooth and nail to ensure we never used it where i worked and we never did.

    However 95% of Acute hospitals are deep in deficit only 20% have PFI

    If you think Lansleys reforms has nothing to do with the problems in the NHS thats fine perhaps its all the staffs fault.

    The truth is that the system has given the money to CCGs and allowed councils to steal £4bn of NHS monies.

    CCG's have taken the cheap option of sending extras to A&E at 30% Tariff. Some Acutes are now completely out of cash requiring emergency loans to pay monthly wages,seeing record throughput with the same cash they received in 2010 after 40% efficiency the Acute Sector is bankrupt.

    You telll me what has gone wrong since 2010 because it was in fine financial health with record satisfaction rates
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 46,127
    antifrank said:

    Pulpstar said:

    antifrank said:

    I'm not betting on the by-election until I've seen how Labour select their candidate. Given the selections made so far by the leadership team, the chances of a controversial figure who might become the focal point of the by-election are non-negligible.

    Labour should be very good value at 1/6 in this constituency but the risk of later finding that I've bet on a nutcase puts me off.

    Who is offering 1-6 ?
    Ladbrokes.
    A pony for me !
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    watford30 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Well it sounds like Junior Doctors earn too little and senior Doctors earn too much. Flatten it out a touch ?

    Seems reasonable - I've never quite managed to understand why GPs get paid so much.
    Yet still so many vacancies. After all its money for old rope isn't it?

    When I speak to my GP colleagues one of the things that gets them down the most is the amount of abuse that they get from the media.
    Well you can't just career change to being a GP. Perhaps GPs need to do like the police have done - create the GP equivalent of PCSOs to tell people "It's a cold, take some paracetomol".
    One thing we really do need is for GPs to be equipped with staff whose main skill is Googling symptoms. If that was done in a sort of triage way, it would help an awful lot with diagnosis.
    Patients can do that already! With advances in robotics, AI and diagnostics, the role of many GP's will be rendered redundant, easily within the next 20/30 years.
    Exactly. I was on a team working on expert systems for kidney function a few years ago. That's the way it will go.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,127
    Star Wars joke - what's the internal temperature of a Tauntaun? Luke warm
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 38,707
    It's a bonus...

    @severincarrell: North Sea tax revenues plummet to negative for the first time in sector's history - minus £39m since April https://t.co/1gULepLTbc
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 10,381
    Watching BJs in the MLB

    I was fortunate to see them live in Toronto in each of the past 2 years.

    This year they are on the verge of the world series.

    Even have a I love BJs T Shirt but Mrs BJ wont let me wear it.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 3,754

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    BJO..SUNIL I was at one tIme a very aggressive Union negotiator..so I have experience of how it all works ...I can assure you that the spaces will be filled..in the meantime the Junior Docs should get out of the way...or come to terms with reality..Lotsa docs in the world..

    Not allowed in though due to immigration rules.

    Vacuums are very expensive to fill and the NHS is already in its worst ever financial state.
    Why do you think that is BJO?

    Are any of those factors or is it just Lansley?
    Walsgrave:

    'The hospital cost £440 million to build, but Projectco is guaranteed an income of £3.3 billion over 30 years, including facilities contracts.'
    Incredible.

    It would be nice if people took the time to look at external factors before blaming the Tories for everything.
    Brown's PFI madness :D
    Yep! Though of course BJO will spin it so Lansley gets the blame.
    Browns PFI madness.


    I never supported PFI, and will never defend it

    It was mortgaging the future

    I fought tooth and nail to ensure we never used it where i worked and we never did.

    However 95% of Acute hospitals are deep in deficit only 20% have PFI

    If you think Lansleys reforms has nothing to do with the problems in the NHS thats fine perhaps its all the staffs fault.

    The truth is that the system has given the money to CCGs and allowed councils to steal £4bn of NHS monies.

    CCG's have taken the cheap option of sending extras to A&E at 30% Tariff. Some Acutes are now completely out of cash requiring emergency loans to pay monthly wages,seeing record throughput with the same cash they received in 2010 after 40% efficiency the Acute Sector is bankrupt.

    You telll me what has gone wrong since 2010 because it was in fine financial health with record satisfaction rates
    I think you seriously have to question whether the Tories's plans to have day to day public spending at 37% of GDP is at all feasible. I can't believe there won't be massive discontent when the effect of reduced services and infrastructure hits home.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 10,381
    Yes Home Run for Blue Jays 5-0

    Really is an addictive sport.

    They were a generous 8/11 to win tonight too.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    @Gasman

    "I particularly dislike hearing from people both within and without the profession that we shouldn't strike because patient might have treatment delayed or similar - it's a job! "

    There is something very disturbing about that comment, at least I find it so. After some consideration I think what really jars is the fact that you say being a physician is a profession and then say it is a job. There is at least in my mind a difference between the two.

    However, if you and your colleagues want to treat being a physician as a job and are indifferent to any suffering you actions may cause your patients (which must be the logical conclusion to be drawn from your opening), then you must expect to be treated accordingly. In particular do not expect any public sympathy or support.
  • GasmanGasman Posts: 104
    edited October 2015
    Cyclefree said:


    Do those countries have an NHS like here? Or a different system?

    I understand doctors' concerns but it seems to me that they are both wedded to a system based on rationing and on screwing down costs i.e. paying doctors as little as they can get away with with no marketisation and also complaining that such a system does not respond to market incentives. Well, if you want to be paid your market worth you need, perhaps, don't you think, to move away from your insistence on a non-market health system?

    I only speak for myself and I am in no way wedded to the current NHS. In fact I would go further and say the best thing that could happen for healthcare in this country is the sudden disappearance of the term "NHS", then maybe people could put a bit more effort into improving healthcare and a bit less into "defending our NHS" and other similar drivel
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,127
    edited October 2015

    Watching BJs in the MLB

    I was fortunate to see them live in Toronto in each of the past 2 years.

    This year they are on the verge of the world series.

    Even have a I love BJs T Shirt but Mrs BJ wont let me wear it.

    I lived in TO 35 years ago, and used to go get my cheap ticket from Dominion and sit in the Dominion Stand and watch the seriously awful Blue Jays at Exhibition Stadium.

    Fun fact: the team was owned by Labatt Breweries, and their best selling beer was called Blue. They hoped the team nickname would be the Blues, so inevitably they became the Jays.

    I still have - somewhere - the inaugural season ball cap
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    BJO..SUNIL I was at one tIme a very aggressive Union negotiator..so I have experience of how it all works ...I can assure you that the spaces will be filled..in the meantime the Junior Docs should get out of the way...or come to terms with reality..Lotsa docs in the world..

    Not allowed in though due to immigration rules.

    Vacuums are very expensive to fill and the NHS is already in its worst ever financial state.
    Why do you think that is BJO?

    Are any of those factors or is it just Lansley?
    Walsgrave:

    'The hospital cost £440 million to build, but Projectco is guaranteed an income of £3.3 billion over 30 years, including facilities contracts.'
    Incredible.

    It would be nice if people took the time to look at external factors before blaming the Tories for everything.
    Brown's PFI madness :D
    Yep! Though of course BJO will spin it so Lansley gets the blame.
    Browns PFI madness.


    I never supported PFI, and will never defend it

    It was mortgaging the future

    I fought tooth and nail to ensure we never used it where i worked and we never did.

    However 95% of Acute hospitals are deep in deficit only 20% have PFI

    If you think Lansleys reforms has nothing to do with the problems in the NHS thats fine perhaps its all the staffs fault.

    The truth is that the system has given the money to CCGs and allowed councils to steal £4bn of NHS monies.

    CCG's have taken the cheap option of sending extras to A&E at 30% Tariff. Some Acutes are now completely out of cash requiring emergency loans to pay monthly wages,seeing record throughput with the same cash they received in 2010 after 40% efficiency the Acute Sector is bankrupt.

    You telll me what has gone wrong since 2010 because it was in fine financial health with record satisfaction rates
    I think you seriously have to question whether the Tories's plans to have day to day public spending at 37% of GDP is at all feasible. I can't believe there won't be massive discontent when the effect of reduced services and infrastructure hits home.
    Agree. 37% is outrageously high and borders on highway robbery.
    30% is a good target.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 10,381
    Bad news for me today. The wife has been told she may not be able to walk in a years time. She has deteriorated really quickly in the last few months

    We have been referred to a Neuro Surgeon in Sheffield. Apparently an operation on her spine is a possibility but has a "high risk" of paralyses from the neck down if it goes wrong.

    Lots to think about and lots to thank the NHS for if it can help.

    Am chilling with the Baseball and wont be posting much in next few weeks.

    Really hope the junior Dr problem is resolved while i am away from PB
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    I think this probably best sums up Biden withdrawing:

    http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/38492

    Was personally hoping that Biden would stand, and Obama certainly seemed to be encouraging him behind the curtain, but the family bereavement seems to have played a role. It would be a sad day indeed in just over a year's time if we have another Clinton in the White House, after all the corruption that she has been and is involved in. And the young would be utterly mad to vote for her, particularly after it was her husband who made student loans non dischargeable debt, consigning a great many of the young to an intolerable burden of debt to start working life off with.

    Whoever wins the Republican nomination, and I personally hope Trump will win it, should hopefully leave no stone unturned in exposing the stench of corruption that is everywhere with Hillary.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 10,381
    Tim_B said:

    Watching BJs in the MLB

    I was fortunate to see them live in Toronto in each of the past 2 years.

    This year they are on the verge of the world series.

    Even have a I love BJs T Shirt but Mrs BJ wont let me wear it.

    I lived in TO 35 years ago, and used to go get my cheap ticket from Dominion and sit in the Dominion Stand and watch the seriously awful Blue Jays at Exhibition Stadium.

    Fun fact: the team was owned by Labatt Breweries, and their best selling beer was called Blue. They hoped the team nickname would be the Blues, so inevitably they became the Jays.

    I still have - somewhere - the inaugural season ball cap
    Rogers Centre stadium was 75% empty each time ive been.

    Sold out completely of late,

    I guess Baseballs parellels with cricket is why i like it so much.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 10,381
    Goodnight and GoodBye for a few weeks
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Bad news for me today. The wife has been told she may not be able to walk in a years time. She has deteriorated really quickly in the last few months

    We have been referred to a Neuro Surgeon in Sheffield. Apparently an operation on her spine is a possibility but has a "high risk" of paralyses from the neck down if it goes wrong.

    Lots to think about and lots to thank the NHS for if it can help.

    Am chilling with the Baseball and wont be posting much in next few weeks.

    Really hope the junior Dr problem is resolved while i am away from PB

    Oh shit, nasty business, Mr Owls. Good luck and may God go with you both.
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    Gasman said:

    A few points with regard to junior doctors salaries (and by extension senior doctors as well). I was a junior doctor until relatively recently, so I have some knowledge of the issues.

    My (probably rather unusual) view is that the main problem is the existence of national pay scales. There is no good reason why an A+E consultant in Surrey should be paid the same as a dermatologist in Rotherham - costs of living are very different, the jobs are very different. If you disagree that national pay scales are wrong then presumably you'd want to abolish London weighting?
    Because everyone is paid the same no-one knows what the correct pay is - the market isn't there to tell us (and I don't think Jeremy Hunt has much of a clue).The "correct" pay may be higher or lower than current pay, we don't know, although the much complained about rates of pay for locums suggest it should be rather higher in A+E at least.
    Although I am naturally disinclined to support strikes I don't see any alternative in this case - in most industries people who don't like a change in terms can look for a job elsewhere - here all the "elsewheres" have exactly the same contracts. I particularly dislike hearing from people both within and without the profession that we shouldn't strike because patient might have treatment delayed or similar - it's a job! If it doesn't pay enough then don't do it. It is the governments responsibility to staff the NHS appropriately, not ours.

    On the current offer, what should be remembered is that there has already been a large pay cut over the last 5 or 6 years, as pay rises have not kept up with inflation by quite some distance - it's just people don't notice that so much. To be honest it's not just salary - over the years there has been a general degradation in working conditions. My study budget is lower now than it was 10 years ago, so I have to pay for a significant part of my (compulsory) CPD out of my own pocket. GMC fees, Indemnity fees and all the other costs are also not linked to salary decreases. There are also countless little penny pinching things everywhere (no milk for tea and coffee for example) that save a few pounds, but make work less pleasant.

    Australia, New Zealand and Canada will probably fill up with British doctors at some point, but until then anyone with any sense and no ties should be heading that way - better pay, better conditions and just treated with a bit more respect.

    And finally, if consultants and GPs don't support the juniors in this then we will deserve everything we will inevitably get next.

    Excellent comments. I wouldn't pretend to be an expert on anything NHS related, but the national pay scale sounds like madness. Makes the case for massive decentralisation that I would advocate, and each hospital running its own affairs and set its pay scales according to its needs, then we wouldn't be in the mess of a one size fits all top down approach.
  • GasmanGasman Posts: 104

    @Gasman

    "I particularly dislike hearing from people both within and without the profession that we shouldn't strike because patient might have treatment delayed or similar - it's a job! "

    There is something very disturbing about that comment, at least I find it so. After some consideration I think what really jars is the fact that you say being a physician is a profession and then say it is a job. There is at least in my mind a difference between the two.

    However, if you and your colleagues want to treat being a physician as a job and are indifferent to any suffering you actions may cause your patients (which must be the logical conclusion to be drawn from your opening), then you must expect to be treated accordingly. In particular do not expect any public sympathy or support.

    I think the confusion is that I use "profession" to mean a group of people with the same type of job, while you (and Jeremy Hunt) use it to mean "people who should be willing to do their jobs for a warm feeling inside and no money".

    I am not indifferent to suffering (and clearly there should be genuine emergency cover during any strike), but again I don't see why we should continue working if not paid reasonably.
  • Tim_B said:

    Watching BJs in the MLB

    I was fortunate to see them live in Toronto in each of the past 2 years.

    This year they are on the verge of the world series.

    Even have a I love BJs T Shirt but Mrs BJ wont let me wear it.

    I lived in TO 35 years ago, and used to go get my cheap ticket from Dominion and sit in the Dominion Stand and watch the seriously awful Blue Jays at Exhibition Stadium.

    Fun fact: the team was owned by Labatt Breweries, and their best selling beer was called Blue. They hoped the team nickname would be the Blues, so inevitably they became the Jays.

    I still have - somewhere - the inaugural season ball cap
    Rogers Centre stadium was 75% empty each time ive been.

    Sold out completely of late,

    I guess Baseballs parellels with cricket is why i like it so much.
    If they laid down an ice rink it would be full every game.
    And the leafs would still be shite.
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    I guarantee, this is five minutes of your life you will be quite happy you never got back.

    Watch this video. Just astonishing.

    https://www.facebook.com/robert.eshbach/videos/1051135241572083/

    Astonishing. And very moving. Thank you.

    Second that. The story (and documentary) of the only known Polish Jewish family (2 daughters) all surviving WW2 is just as moving a story, with all four family members having incredible stories of survival.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 16,952

    Bad news for me today. The wife has been told she may not be able to walk in a years time. She has deteriorated really quickly in the last few months

    We have been referred to a Neuro Surgeon in Sheffield. Apparently an operation on her spine is a possibility but has a "high risk" of paralyses from the neck down if it goes wrong.

    Lots to think about and lots to thank the NHS for if it can help.

    Am chilling with the Baseball and wont be posting much in next few weeks.

    Really hope the junior Dr problem is resolved while i am away from PB

    Sorry to hear this news. Best of luck.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,127

    Tim_B said:

    Watching BJs in the MLB

    I was fortunate to see them live in Toronto in each of the past 2 years.

    This year they are on the verge of the world series.

    Even have a I love BJs T Shirt but Mrs BJ wont let me wear it.

    I lived in TO 35 years ago, and used to go get my cheap ticket from Dominion and sit in the Dominion Stand and watch the seriously awful Blue Jays at Exhibition Stadium.

    Fun fact: the team was owned by Labatt Breweries, and their best selling beer was called Blue. They hoped the team nickname would be the Blues, so inevitably they became the Jays.

    I still have - somewhere - the inaugural season ball cap
    Rogers Centre stadium was 75% empty each time ive been.

    Sold out completely of late,

    I guess Baseballs parellels with cricket is why i like it so much.
    I'm a cricket fan, and I used to be a baseball fan, but 2 things happened: steroids and the fact that a game now takes an hour longer than it did 20 years ago. Steroids meant huge scoring, which the owners loved. Now we're in the post-steroid era scoring has slumped.

    Also there are fewer and fewer US players - you get weary of post-game interviews of the "national sport" when interpreters are needed, or you have to listen to a thick accent.

    In addition with the expansions there are too many teams, too many games, the season is too long, and too many teams make the post season. You shouldn't be playing baseball in Colorado in April.

    It also is a regional sport. If the Colorado Rockies make the world series, nobody cares. We have reached the point that early world series games get fewer TV viewers than pre-season football. The Super Bowl is an event, regardless of who is in it - the World Series isn't.

    It has also lost the youth market - baseball skews towards a 50+ demographic, and the young like the NFL or the NBA. It is in serious long term decline in ratings.
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    Bad news for me today. The wife has been told she may not be able to walk in a years time. She has deteriorated really quickly in the last few months

    We have been referred to a Neuro Surgeon in Sheffield. Apparently an operation on her spine is a possibility but has a "high risk" of paralyses from the neck down if it goes wrong.

    Lots to think about and lots to thank the NHS for if it can help.

    Am chilling with the Baseball and wont be posting much in next few weeks.

    Really hope the junior Dr problem is resolved while i am away from PB

    Sorry to hear this news. Best of luck.
    Seconded. All the best Owls.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 11,013
    Sounds nightmarish, John - all good wishes for a successful outcome.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,127
    edited October 2015

    Bad news for me today. The wife has been told she may not be able to walk in a years time. She has deteriorated really quickly in the last few months

    We have been referred to a Neuro Surgeon in Sheffield. Apparently an operation on her spine is a possibility but has a "high risk" of paralyses from the neck down if it goes wrong.

    Lots to think about and lots to thank the NHS for if it can help.

    Am chilling with the Baseball and wont be posting much in next few weeks.

    Really hope the junior Dr problem is resolved while i am away from PB

    Best of luck and best wishes to your wife Mr Owls.

    On the bright side, Tiger Woods has had spinal surgery twice in 14 months, but I wouldn't wish his golf game on your wife :)
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited October 2015

    Bad news for me today. The wife has been told she may not be able to walk in a years time. She has deteriorated really quickly in the last few months

    We have been referred to a Neuro Surgeon in Sheffield. Apparently an operation on her spine is a possibility but has a "high risk" of paralyses from the neck down if it goes wrong.

    Lots to think about and lots to thank the NHS for if it can help.

    Am chilling with the Baseball and wont be posting much in next few weeks.

    Really hope the junior Dr problem is resolved while i am away from PB

    Best of luck and wishes, I hope things get better.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    I had to post this, the Israeli Prime Minister says Hitler did nothing wrong:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/10/21/netanyahu-says-palestinian-gave-hitler-idea-for-the-holocaust/

    "“Hitler didn’t want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jews. And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, ‘If you expel them, they'll all come here.’ ‘So what should I do with them?’ he asked. He said, ‘Burn them.’

    Netanyahu said the Mufti of Jerusalem had “a central role in fomenting the Final Solution.”

    Neo-nazis are going to make this into a poster "see it wasn't Hitler it was the palestinians behind the holocaust ".

    Can we agree than Netanyahu has gone too far?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 16,952
    GeoffM said:

    watford30 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Well it sounds like Junior Doctors earn too little and senior Doctors earn too much. Flatten it out a touch ?

    Seems reasonable - I've never quite managed to understand why GPs get paid so much.
    Yet still so many vacancies. After all its money for old rope isn't it?

    When I speak to my GP colleagues one of the things that gets them down the most is the amount of abuse that they get from the media.
    Well you can't just career change to being a GP. Perhaps GPs need to do like the police have done - create the GP equivalent of PCSOs to tell people "It's a cold, take some paracetomol".
    One thing we really do need is for GPs to be equipped with staff whose main skill is Googling symptoms. If that was done in a sort of triage way, it would help an awful lot with diagnosis.
    Patients can do that already! With advances in robotics, AI and diagnostics, the role of many GP's will be rendered redundant, easily within the next 20/30 years.
    Exactly. I was on a team working on expert systems for kidney function a few years ago. That's the way it will go.
    Hmm. Big hmm. I doubt I will be around, or at least in a fit state, to question your prediction in 30 years, but I very much doubt it. A lot of what a GP does is subtle - weighing up risks, odds, mood of patient, reliability of the information being given to them, family context, social situation, balancing costs of a diagnostic against the chances of the worried well being sat in front of them.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Gasman said:

    @Gasman

    "I particularly dislike hearing from people both within and without the profession that we shouldn't strike because patient might have treatment delayed or similar - it's a job! "

    There is something very disturbing about that comment, at least I find it so. After some consideration I think what really jars is the fact that you say being a physician is a profession and then say it is a job. There is at least in my mind a difference between the two.

    However, if you and your colleagues want to treat being a physician as a job and are indifferent to any suffering you actions may cause your patients (which must be the logical conclusion to be drawn from your opening), then you must expect to be treated accordingly. In particular do not expect any public sympathy or support.

    I think the confusion is that I use "profession" to mean a group of people with the same type of job, while you (and Jeremy Hunt) use it to mean "people who should be willing to do their jobs for a warm feeling inside and no money".

    I am not indifferent to suffering (and clearly there should be genuine emergency cover during any strike), but again I don't see why we should continue working if not paid reasonably.
    No, I don't regard a profession in those terms, but something much more. However we are not going to agree so there is no point in taking the discussion further.

    In your strike, what would you class as emergency cover? Immediate life and death situations I would hope but how about scheduled cancer surgery? How do you feel about being there for patients with renal failure?

    Just looking at it from the other side for a moment, I understand it costs about £500,000 to train a doctor. How do you feel about medical students being required to sign up to work in the NHS for, say, 6 years after qualifying or be recharged for the cost of their training?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 16,952
    Speedy said:

    I had to post this, the Israeli Prime Minister says Hitler did nothing wrong:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/10/21/netanyahu-says-palestinian-gave-hitler-idea-for-the-holocaust/

    "“Hitler didn’t want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jews. And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, ‘If you expel them, they'll all come here.’ ‘So what should I do with them?’ he asked. He said, ‘Burn them.’

    Netanyahu said the Mufti of Jerusalem had “a central role in fomenting the Final Solution.”

    Neo-nazis are going to make this into a poster "see it wasn't Hitler it was the palestinians behind the holocaust ".

    Can we agree than Netanyahu has gone too far?

    Sounds like absolute rubbish to me, but I am busy reading "Black Earth", an astounding, brilliant and harrowing history of the holocaust, so I'll see what it says.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    GeoffM said:

    watford30 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Well it sounds like Junior Doctors earn too little and senior Doctors earn too much. Flatten it out a touch ?

    Seems reasonable - I've never quite managed to understand why GPs get paid so much.
    Yet still so many vacancies. After all its money for old rope isn't it?

    When I speak to my GP colleagues one of the things that gets them down the most is the amount of abuse that they get from the media.
    Well you can't just career change to being a GP. Perhaps GPs need to do like the police have done - create the GP equivalent of PCSOs to tell people "It's a cold, take some paracetomol".
    One thing we really do need is for GPs to be equipped with staff whose main skill is Googling symptoms. If that was done in a sort of triage way, it would help an awful lot with diagnosis.
    Patients can do that already! With advances in robotics, AI and diagnostics, the role of many GP's will be rendered redundant, easily within the next 20/30 years.
    Exactly. I was on a team working on expert systems for kidney function a few years ago. That's the way it will go.
    Hmm. Big hmm. I doubt I will be around, or at least in a fit state, to question your prediction in 30 years, but I very much doubt it. A lot of what a GP does is subtle - weighing up risks, odds, mood of patient, reliability of the information being given to them, family context, social situation, balancing costs of a diagnostic against the chances of the worried well being sat in front of them.
    Really? On what planet? How would someone the patient has never seen before be able to do all that in the 8 minutes, tops, the consultation lasts. Wishful thinking there, Mr. Borough, or perhaps harking back to a time long gone.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,127
    edited October 2015
    Speedy said:

    I had to post this, the Israeli Prime Minister says Hitler did nothing wrong:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/10/21/netanyahu-says-palestinian-gave-hitler-idea-for-the-holocaust/

    "“Hitler didn’t want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jews. And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, ‘If you expel them, they'll all come here.’ ‘So what should I do with them?’ he asked. He said, ‘Burn them.’

    Netanyahu said the Mufti of Jerusalem had “a central role in fomenting the Final Solution.”

    Neo-nazis are going to make this into a poster "see it wasn't Hitler it was the palestinians behind the holocaust ".

    Can we agree than Netanyahu has gone too far?

    Initially the Nazis did want to expel the Jews of Europe - they seriously considered Madagascar as a destination, for example. But the Wannsee Conference sealed their fate.

    I think the conference was before the Grand Mufti said his bit.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 11,013
    Tim_B said:



    Initially the Nazis did want to expel the Jews of Europe - they seriously considered Madagascar as a destination, for example. But the Wannsee Conference sealed their fate.

    I think the conference was before the Grand Mufti said his bit.

    The Grand Mufti was a nasty piece of work, but the suggestion that it was just his idea is ludicrous.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,127
    edited October 2015
    You heard it here first -

    there are multiple rumors Tiger Woods may not play on the 2015-16 PGA Tour as he rehabs from his 2nd back surgery in 14 months.

    If that is the case, then it looks like the end of his career. This year was his worst as a professional, so if this is the case, it's an unfortunate ending to a stellar career as a golfer. As a husband and father, not so much.

    It is already certain that he will not reach Jack's Major target.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    On another note, there is trouble at mill in Portugal:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11946412/Defiant-Portugal-shatters-the-eurozones-political-complacency.html

    I do love Portugal and am appalled how it has become such a ghastly mess, but the communists and their allies there have a point. The place has become Greece MKII but I hope, and trust, that the Portuguese will not be so easily cowed.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,127

    On another note, there is trouble at mill in Portugal:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11946412/Defiant-Portugal-shatters-the-eurozones-political-complacency.html

    I do love Portugal and am appalled how it has become such a ghastly mess, but the communists and their allies there have a point. The place has become Greece MKII but I hope, and trust, that the Portuguese will not be so easily cowed.

    That cannot be true - doesn't Cliff Richard have a vineyard there? Cliff - the only man to publish calendars of himself fully clothed.
  • isamisam Posts: 24,352
    edited October 2015
    YouGov poll finds Farage is not toxic with voters on EU referendum

    'What about Farage, the Ukip leader who some claim will alienate wavering voters and scupper any chance of a victory for the Outers? Overall, we do not find much evidence for the claim that Farage will make large numbers of voters more likely to vote to keep Britain in the EU. Compared to voters who are not exposed to a Farage cue, those who are given this treatment are no more likely to vote to Leave. Broadly speaking then, it appears that voters have already priced in the so-called ‘Farage Effect’.'

    http://whatukthinks.org/eu/cameron-corbyn-and-farage-how-might-they-affect-the-eu-referendum-vote/
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596



    Hmm. Big hmm. I doubt I will be around, or at least in a fit state, to question your prediction in 30 years, but I very much doubt it. A lot of what a GP does is subtle - weighing up risks, odds, mood of patient, reliability of the information being given to them, family context, social situation, balancing costs of a diagnostic against the chances of the worried well being sat in front of them.

    Really? On what planet? How would someone the patient has never seen before be able to do all that in the 8 minutes, tops, the consultation lasts. Wishful thinking there, Mr. Borough, or perhaps harking back to a time long gone.
    there are hardly any GPs in Japan. You decide which bit of you has a problem, and go and see a specialist. No doubt sometimes you will be wrong, but likely this will be on a few common routes e.g. indigestion -> heart disease and so on.

    I'm about as left/green as they come, but the NHS fetish is probably quite damaging to the UK in the long run.
  • Bad news for me today. The wife has been told she may not be able to walk in a years time. She has deteriorated really quickly in the last few months

    We have been referred to a Neuro Surgeon in Sheffield. Apparently an operation on her spine is a possibility but has a "high risk" of paralyses from the neck down if it goes wrong.

    Lots to think about and lots to thank the NHS for if it can help.

    Am chilling with the Baseball and wont be posting much in next few weeks.

    Really hope the junior Dr problem is resolved while i am away from PB

    Deepest sympathies BJO, hope she can pull through.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 6,773



    Hmm. Big hmm. I doubt I will be around, or at least in a fit state, to question your prediction in 30 years, but I very much doubt it. A lot of what a GP does is subtle - weighing up risks, odds, mood of patient, reliability of the information being given to them, family context, social situation, balancing costs of a diagnostic against the chances of the worried well being sat in front of them.

    Really? On what planet? How would someone the patient has never seen before be able to do all that in the 8 minutes, tops, the consultation lasts. Wishful thinking there, Mr. Borough, or perhaps harking back to a time long gone.
    there are hardly any GPs in Japan. You decide which bit of you has a problem, and go and see a specialist. No doubt sometimes you will be wrong, but likely this will be on a few common routes e.g. indigestion -> heart disease and so on.

    I'm about as left/green as they come, but the NHS fetish is probably quite damaging to the UK in the long run.
    The US also has very few GPs. It has its benefits - you get to a specialist in one step. The downside is that there is very little preventative medicine, and so that adds to the nation's overall health bill.
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