Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As the national polls show LAB’s plight getting worse party

124»

Comments

  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I think those Labourites wish they could tempt Jezza into a standing beside the EdStone - then push it over.
    Scott_P said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Sam Coates Times ‏@SamCoatesTimes 1m1 minute ago
    YouGov found of the 38% of Lab members/supporters etc that want Corbyn gone before election, no consensus candidate

    Does Ed Miliband feel the hand of destiny on his shoulder?
  • Mr. Chestnut, UKIP's broad but shallow approach (which I've repeatedly slammed) could actually work in 2020 if Corbyn's still there. All those second places in the north of England could suddenly become a sweep of purple seats.

    Long way off that, of course, but it's a credible possibility.

    Mr. Bob, if things escalate between Turkey and Russia and we don't get involved, should Turkey invoke Article Whatever It Is, then won't that effectively mean NATO ceases to function? [It'll also not enthuse the Baltic Tigers, who, after Crimea, will be very keen for NATO help should a Russian bear come-a-hunting].
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Mr Topping, I take your point but these centre left people, whoever and wherever they are need a reality check. They have been found out, so they need to toddle off and start a new party or shut up.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Dair said:

    Seems strange to see the papers focusing on Natalie McGarry when Kezia Dugdale still doesn't seem to have answered her own questions about a missing £10k

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/police-probe-missing-10-000-from-labour-party-coffers-1-3907487

    There is no apparent suggestion that Kezia Dugdale was involved in that £10,000 going missing. While we are told that initial inquiries into the missing money at Women For Independence are focussing on Natalie McGarry.

    Glad to be of assistance.
    Money was missing in MARCH - before the GE..

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-mp-centre-police-probe-6885561

    "We revealed that WFI has called in the police after an internal audit showed vast sums of money raised by grassroots supporters was unaccounted for.

    "After numerous attempts to get to the bottom of the matter the decision was taken to alert the police at a committee meeting last week.


    General Election 2015: Glasgow East [10][11]
    Party Candidate Votes % ±%
    SNP Natalie McGarry 24,116 56.9 +32.2
    Labour Margaret Curran 13,729 32.4 −29.2
    Conservative Andrew Morrison 2,544 6.0 +1.5
    UKIP Arthur Thackeray[12] 1,105 2.6 +2.0
    Scottish Green Kim Long[13] 381 0.9 N/A
    Liberal Democrats Gary McLelland[14] 318 0.7 −4.3
    Scottish Socialist Liam McLaughlan 224 0.5 −0.9
    Majority 10,387 24.5
    Turnout 42,417 60.3 +8.3
    SNP gain from Labour Swing +30.7



  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited November 2015

    Mr. Chestnut, UKIP's broad but shallow approach (which I've repeatedly slammed) could actually work in 2020 if Corbyn's still there. All those second places in the north of England could suddenly become a sweep of purple seats.

    Long way off that, of course, but it's a credible possibility.

    Mr. Bob, if things escalate between Turkey and Russia and we don't get involved, should Turkey invoke Article Whatever It Is, then won't that effectively mean NATO ceases to function? [It'll also not enthuse the Baltic Tigers, who, after Crimea, will be very keen for NATO help should a Russian bear come-a-hunting].

    NATO should, and hopefully will, tell the Turks to 'do one'. The *defensive* alliance doesn't exist so that one member can intentionally pick a fight with someone else, and then expect the other members to pile in with them.

    If the aircraft was proven to have been in Syrian airspace, Turkey should issue a grovelling apology to Vlad, and change their rules of engagement.

    However, since the Russkies have become rather blasé about infringing/entering other's airspace without permission recently, we shall wait and see.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Sky news breaking

    F16 (Turkish?) with sidewinder shot down Russian. (Warned 10 times in 5 mins)
    Russian MOD insist plane in Syrian airspace, Sky showing pictures of pilots parachutes descending.

    Latest report indicates that One pilot has been already captured by Turk rebels TV reports of him being dragged out of a tree while rebels shouted the normal "God is great" stuff.

    The indication that this was an air combat and caught by Turks would infer it was on Turkish side or the Turks Tom Tom is as bad as the Russians.

    Who knows? The arguments continue.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,979
    rcs1000 said:

    Re Turkey: the difficulty for the EU here is that they need Turkey to stop the flow of refugees... or the EU are are going to have to start manning the Eastern borders.

    The Bulgarian/Turkish border is about 100 miles long. It's the Greek islands that are the problem. However I don't think Turkey can stop the flow of refugees given its borders so we shouldn't let that influence our policy with regard to Turkey (eg joining EU or Syrian strategy).
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Well, we certainly live in interesting times.

    Shame we do not have an opposition worthy of the name.
  • Mr. Moses, suggestion here is that it was within a 5 mile Turkish exclusion zone which is actually in/over Syria.

    If the conflict happened in that exclusion zone, then one can understand the Russian perspective.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Can we assume that the Russian plane was bombing someone fighting the Kurds ?
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Russian plane shot down

    http://youtu.be/G7XOK7iq8s8
  • TOPPING said:



    Well of course we have been too focused on that bit (which, as Chuka says, is the sine qua non of a government) to look at any other policies in such depth.

    Oh there's nationalising stuff also, isn't there. The railways causes much debate but isn't there power also? We saw how well a milder version of that did for Ed.

    if i remember correctly, nationalizing railways is not so unpopular with tory voters.

    much easier to sell, anyway, than nuanced talk about international law
    Nationalisation is bullshit.

    Besides which we are likely to move in the opposite direction: it's very unlikely that Network Rail will survive in its current form following the Shaw review.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BBCAllegra: Shadow cab source tells me the PM now has "clear parliamentary majority" for Syria vote. "All senior figures support action", they say.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    TOPPING said:



    Well of course we have been too focused on that bit (which, as Chuka says, is the sine qua non of a government) to look at any other policies in such depth.

    Oh there's nationalising stuff also, isn't there. The railways causes much debate but isn't there power also? We saw how well a milder version of that did for Ed.

    if i remember correctly, nationalizing railways is not so unpopular with tory voters.

    much easier to sell, anyway, than nuanced talk about international law
    Nationalisation is bullshit.

    Besides which we are likely to move in the opposite direction: it's very unlikely that Network Rail will survive in its current form following the Shaw review.
    Many of our utilities are de facto nationalised and churning out healthy profits for taxpayers.

    Albeit foreign taxpayers. :-(
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    TGOHF said:

    Can we assume that the Russian plane was bombing someone fighting the Kurds ?

    Turkmens?
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'Will they still be backing him when 100s of Lab councillors lose their seats in May'

    Perhaps Corbyn & Co would quite like a result like that. Those most likely to get the boot are probably mostly more moderate people anyway. An electoral year zero will allow Labour to rise again as a properly socialist party, unencumbered by Blairite running dogs...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    Mr Topping, I take your point but these centre left people, whoever and wherever they are need a reality check. They have been found out, so they need to toddle off and start a new party or shut up.

    Don't disagree. I think there would be plenty of appetite for it.

    And actually that's what NPXMPX2 believes also.

    What price a new party formed in next 24 months?

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957
    Scott_P said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Sam Coates Times ‏@SamCoatesTimes 1m1 minute ago
    YouGov found of the 38% of Lab members/supporters etc that want Corbyn gone before election, no consensus candidate

    Does Ed Miliband feel the hand of destiny on his shoulder?
    I think all Ed has to look forward to is the icy hand of death on his shoulder.

    Politically speaking, of course.

    His brother went to be a Thunderbird with International Rescue. Perhaps Ed could join SPECTRUM. He's no Captain Scarlet, of course, but he could perhaps settle into early retirement as Captain Beige...
  • dr_spyn said:
    Genuine question - how often do the betting odds reflect the percentages gained in Westminster by elections?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957
    runnymede said:

    'Will they still be backing him when 100s of Lab councillors lose their seats in May'

    Perhaps Corbyn & Co would quite like a result like that. Those most likely to get the boot are probably mostly more moderate people anyway. An electoral year zero will allow Labour to rise again as a properly socialist party, unencumbered by Blairite running dogs...

    ...and unencumbered by voters.

  • If anyone's checking for news on Twitter about the downed plane, be aware you may stumble across a photo allegedly of one of the (dead) pilots. Only caught the top of it, so no idea if it's horrific.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    runnymede said:

    'Will they still be backing him when 100s of Lab councillors lose their seats in May'

    Perhaps Corbyn & Co would quite like a result like that. Those most likely to get the boot are probably mostly more moderate people anyway. An electoral year zero will allow Labour to rise again as a properly socialist party, unencumbered by Blairite running dogs...

    ...and unencumbered by voters.

    The biggest mistake made by some is thinking JC and co are interested in national elections. They have a window to purge the party and are using it.
  • I'll nail my colours to the mast on Oldham West & Royton. I've been backing UKIP from 8/1 down and I still think they're value at the 11/4 they're widely available at (3/1 with Bet365). They look no worse than a 6/4 shot to me.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957
    dr_spyn said:

    @roger Labour MPs weren't rallying round to help out Corbyn yesterday. The brand is tarnished beyond redemption, is this the Ratner moment?

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/669061680798826496


    It does look terminal when not even Diane will sit with him. She didn't even have the excuse of having to write her Xmas cards...
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263
    TOPPING said:

    Mr Topping, I take your point but these centre left people, whoever and wherever they are need a reality check. They have been found out, so they need to toddle off and start a new party or shut up.

    Don't disagree. I think there would be plenty of appetite for it.

    And actually that's what NPXMPX2 believes also.

    What price a new party formed in next 24 months?

    No, I don't think there is an appetite for a new party - centrists remember the fate of the SDP even under more favourable circumstances with a shudder. If we had PR I'm quite sure that both Labour and Tories would split, but we don't.

    If the LibDems were doing really well, they'd be attracting centrists, but at present they merely offer a stark illustration of the limited picking to be had.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited November 2015
    Stephen Bush
    19% still want Andy Burnham, who ran a campaign so bad I sometimes wake up at night in a cold sweat remembering it. https://t.co/K1idVbmF6X
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited November 2015
    MikeK said:
    It's enriched lots of UKIP MEP's, and Farage.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865

    Mr. Moses, suggestion here is that it was within a 5 mile Turkish exclusion zone which is actually in/over Syria.

    If the conflict happened in that exclusion zone, then one can understand the Russian perspective.

    Mr Morris, Depends I suppose if that is an official UN sanctioned zone? Not sure what the rules are otherwise?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    TOPPING said:

    Mr Topping, I take your point but these centre left people, whoever and wherever they are need a reality check. They have been found out, so they need to toddle off and start a new party or shut up.

    Don't disagree. I think there would be plenty of appetite for it.

    And actually that's what NPXMPX2 believes also.

    What price a new party formed in next 24 months?

    No, I don't think there is an appetite for a new party - centrists remember the fate of the SDP even under more favourable circumstances with a shudder. If we had PR I'm quite sure that both Labour and Tories would split, but we don't.

    If the LibDems were doing really well, they'd be attracting centrists, but at present they merely offer a stark illustration of the limited picking to be had.
    Agree the lessons of the SDP blocks a new centre left party. More likely IMO if Corbyn is forced out or comes unstuck is a new Left party following a pattern we have seen across Europe.

    Not good either way.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,979

    dr_spyn said:

    @roger Labour MPs weren't rallying round to help out Corbyn yesterday. The brand is tarnished beyond redemption, is this the Ratner moment?

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/669061680798826496


    It does look terminal when not even Diane will sit with him. She didn't even have the excuse of having to write her Xmas cards...
    This is Corbyn as Gandhi.

    "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

    You can't ignore him. You are laughing at him. But it strengthens his followers' resolve.
  • Mr. Moses, I'd guess it's Turkish only, rather than a NATO area (not sure NATO's been collectively involved in Syria/Iraq, just individual members doing their own thing, hence us bombing just Iraq and France doing air strikes in Iraq and Syria).
  • Mr. Barnesian, or Miliband:
    "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you lose catastrophically."
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Russia taking it's time with response to downed plane:
    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/669098090977169409
  • If anyone's checking for news on Twitter about the downed plane, be aware you may stumble across a photo allegedly of one of the (dead) pilots. Only caught the top of it, so no idea if it's horrific.

    There's video - Bellingcat suggests equipment looks v similar to that seen in photos of live Russian pilots in Syria.....
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    Critics here underestimate the extent to which members like being led by a socialist idealist.

    [Snipped]

    Being led by someone who expresses the sort of things that made us want to join is refreshing.

    You joined Labour because you were on the side of the IRA and against the various peace agreements?! Because that's one of Corbyn's long-standing principles he's held onto and expressed, isn't it?

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Mr. Barnesian, or Miliband:
    "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you lose catastrophically."

    Sadly with Miliband the laughing never stopped. The psychology that led to the EdStone deserves academic study.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited November 2015
    My experience of working in Turkey maybe 20 or 30 times would tell me that Ataturk's famous quote about 'one turk being worth the the rest of the world' is far from accurate.

    It is the only country where I had to shoot a scene 30 times because an actor couldn't open a fridge door and the ony country where an electrician was beaten up on set because he couldn't remember to tilt a light on 'action!'.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited November 2015

    TOPPING said:

    Mr Topping, I take your point but these centre left people, whoever and wherever they are need a reality check. They have been found out, so they need to toddle off and start a new party or shut up.

    Don't disagree. I think there would be plenty of appetite for it.

    And actually that's what NPXMPX2 believes also.

    What price a new party formed in next 24 months?

    No, I don't think there is an appetite for a new party - centrists remember the fate of the SDP even under more favourable circumstances with a shudder. If we had PR I'm quite sure that both Labour and Tories would split, but we don't.

    If the LibDems were doing really well, they'd be attracting centrists, but at present they merely offer a stark illustration of the limited picking to be had.
    Used to be that LDs were to the left of you lot but I think you've corrected that. I just don't think the GBP likes coalitions for all the touchy-feely talk about them previously.

    So no, there is not a genuine centre-left party that disaffected Labour Party voters can embrace. And that party would come with a lot of residual support. And surely the SDP experience taught Lab voters that it takes 15 years to get back in power if they stick with Lab, and you lot are far more bonkers than the 1983 ones.

    v funny also because if a centre-left party did emerge, it would leave you in a right old pickle, eh Nick.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    watford30 said:

    MikeK said:
    It's enriched lots of UKIP MEP's, and Farage.
    You really are a small person @watford30. The fact that these UKIP MEP's were elected by Britons means nothing to you. Their salaries are given to them by EU fiat, which doesn't make them any richer than all the other MEP's elected.
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,721
    edited November 2015
    Just in case not seen - Left Unity is suspending election work in order to support Corbyn...
    Left Unity, a left-wing political party, has decided not to stand any candidates in upcoming elections, in order to support Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn.

    At its weekend conference, the party voted to continue “as a radical left party, committed to supporting progressive developments in the Labour Party”, and rejected proposals to apply for affiliation to Labour.

    But it said it will “temporarily suspend our national electoral work” and will not contest the Greater London Authority elections "but instead call for a Labour victory in these elections”.
    (From http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-34898411)
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Mr Topping, I take your point but these centre left people, whoever and wherever they are need a reality check. They have been found out, so they need to toddle off and start a new party or shut up.

    Don't disagree. I think there would be plenty of appetite for it.

    And actually that's what NPXMPX2 believes also.

    What price a new party formed in next 24 months?

    No, I don't think there is an appetite for a new party - centrists remember the fate of the SDP even under more favourable circumstances with a shudder. If we had PR I'm quite sure that both Labour and Tories would split, but we don't.

    If the LibDems were doing really well, they'd be attracting centrists, but at present they merely offer a stark illustration of the limited picking to be had.
    Used to be that LDs were to the left of you lot but I think you've corrected that. I just don't think the GBP likes coalitions for all the touchy-feely talk about them previously.

    So no, there is not a genuine centre-left party that disaffected Labour Party voters can embrace. And that party would come with a lot of residual support. And surely the SDP experience taught Lab voters that it takes 15 years to get back in power if they stick with Lab, and you lot are far more bonkers than the 1983 ones.

    v funny also because if a centre-left party did emerge, it would leave you in a right old pickle, eh Nick.
    No. Weathercock Palmer simply do another U turn.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,761
    I suspect and fear that the problem with the Russian plane was not that it was intruding into Turkish airspace but that it was bombing Turkmen rebels fighting Assad. The Turks have made clear that they intend to protect them but the Russians are still as focussed on bombing everyone opposing Assad as they are on Da'ash.

    The determination to protect the Turkmens is not yet sanctioned by the UN and the Turks have no legal right to extend their airspace. I don't see any basis or requirement for NATO to get involved. We should just thank goodness it was not an American plane that shot the Russians down whilst bombing the FSA. It could easily have happened.

    My guess is that the next Russian bombing raid to that area will not be a single jet and they will have orders to shoot on sight. This could get tricky.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Didn't Mr Palmer briefing endorse Yvette during the campaign? I can't see how Corbyn and Yvette share much of anything in common.
    watford30 said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Mr Topping, I take your point but these centre left people, whoever and wherever they are need a reality check. They have been found out, so they need to toddle off and start a new party or shut up.

    Don't disagree. I think there would be plenty of appetite for it.

    And actually that's what NPXMPX2 believes also.

    What price a new party formed in next 24 months?

    No, I don't think there is an appetite for a new party - centrists remember the fate of the SDP even under more favourable circumstances with a shudder. If we had PR I'm quite sure that both Labour and Tories would split, but we don't.

    If the LibDems were doing really well, they'd be attracting centrists, but at present they merely offer a stark illustration of the limited picking to be had.
    Used to be that LDs were to the left of you lot but I think you've corrected that. I just don't think the GBP likes coalitions for all the touchy-feely talk about them previously.

    So no, there is not a genuine centre-left party that disaffected Labour Party voters can embrace. And that party would come with a lot of residual support. And surely the SDP experience taught Lab voters that it takes 15 years to get back in power if they stick with Lab, and you lot are far more bonkers than the 1983 ones.

    v funny also because if a centre-left party did emerge, it would leave you in a right old pickle, eh Nick.
    No. Weathercock Palmer simply do another U turn.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,761

    Didn't Mr Palmer briefing endorse Yvette during the campaign? I can't see how Corbyn and Yvette share much of anything in common.

    watford30 said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Mr Topping, I take your point but these centre left people, whoever and wherever they are need a reality check. They have been found out, so they need to toddle off and start a new party or shut up.

    Don't disagree. I think there would be plenty of appetite for it.

    And actually that's what NPXMPX2 believes also.

    What price a new party formed in next 24 months?

    No, I don't think there is an appetite for a new party - centrists remember the fate of the SDP even under more favourable circumstances with a shudder. If we had PR I'm quite sure that both Labour and Tories would split, but we don't.

    If the LibDems were doing really well, they'd be attracting centrists, but at present they merely offer a stark illustration of the limited picking to be had.
    Used to be that LDs were to the left of you lot but I think you've corrected that. I just don't think the GBP likes coalitions for all the touchy-feely talk about them previously.

    So no, there is not a genuine centre-left party that disaffected Labour Party voters can embrace. And that party would come with a lot of residual support. And surely the SDP experience taught Lab voters that it takes 15 years to get back in power if they stick with Lab, and you lot are far more bonkers than the 1983 ones.

    v funny also because if a centre-left party did emerge, it would leave you in a right old pickle, eh Nick.
    No. Weathercock Palmer simply do another U turn.
    They are both members of the Labour Party.
    They are both MPs
    Eh....

    Ok, its a short list.
  • Critics here underestimate the extent to which members like being led by a socialist idealist. We've had 20 years of dogged loyalty to leaders who focused primarily on getting elected and made whatever compromises they felt necessary (Tony positively liked some of the compromises and is therefore a bit different, but the effect was similar). Being led by someone who expresses the sort of things that made us want to join is refreshing.

    The absence of an alternative who has a clear path to victory over the Tories makes the choice easy. If such an alternative appeared, people would consider it, but at present the choice is someone who speaks for us and...not very much. Certainly I am not minded ever to vote for one of the people who are indulging in whinging and sniping without a coherent idea of their own, and I suspect others feel the same.

    FWIW my current Broxtowe blog has so far had a 100% positive response, including from non-Labour people, though I assume that people who are actively hostile have drifted off (http://www.nickpalmer.org.uk/should-we-join-the-war-in-syria/ ).

    As Nick makes clear here, a large number of Labour members are currently not very interested in government. They see the Labour party as something that represents them specifically, not the broader electorate. On an individual level many of them probably have little to lose from many years of Tory government and being in opposition without responsibility and having a moan on Twitter feels oh so good after years of the compromises needed to get and maintain power. However, that does not apply to the unions. They need the Tories out and as soon as possible. This is where pressure for leadership change is going to begin. It will take many humiliating defeats and probably a couple of years yet, but sooner or later the unions are going to realise they face being wiped out as things stand. That will concentrate a lot of minds.

  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited November 2015
    MikeK said:

    watford30 said:

    MikeK said:
    It's enriched lots of UKIP MEP's, and Farage.
    You really are a small person @watford30. The fact that these UKIP MEP's were elected by Britons means nothing to you. Their salaries are given to them by EU fiat, which doesn't make them any richer than all the other MEP's elected.
    They've done very nicely on all the expenses they're claiming. And many of them have gone to jail.

    'We hate the EU. Except when it's filling our wallets'.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited November 2015
    Turkeys currency, the Lira, dropping like a stone this morning. I wonder why?

    Wall Street Journal ‏@WSJ 6m6 minutes ago
    Global stocks fall as Turkey downs jet http://on.wsj.com/1HjMcJJ
  • shadsyshadsy Posts: 289
    Although it's near impossible for the PLP to get rid of him, there must be a good chance Corbyn will just walk away from this at some point. It's hard to imagine just what the levels of stress must be like in a position he never prepared for, or expected.

    If things go as badly for Labour as many predict in actual elections over the next few months, I could imagine he'll step aside for someone else to have a go. For the good of the party.
  • New Thread New Thread

  • Cyclefree said:

    Critics here underestimate the extent to which members like being led by a socialist idealist.

    [Snipped]

    Being led by someone who expresses the sort of things that made us want to join is refreshing.

    You joined Labour because you were on the side of the IRA and against the various peace agreements?! Because that's one of Corbyn's long-standing principles he's held onto and expressed, isn't it?

    Nick is clearly comfortable with Stop the War being consulted on Labour defence and foreign policy. I'd argue this is something he should have told prospective voters. Clearly he forgot to. It will be interesting to see how big the Tory majority is in Broxtowe next time round.
  • Jonathan said:

    TOPPING said:

    Mr Topping, I take your point but these centre left people, whoever and wherever they are need a reality check. They have been found out, so they need to toddle off and start a new party or shut up.

    Don't disagree. I think there would be plenty of appetite for it.

    And actually that's what NPXMPX2 believes also.

    What price a new party formed in next 24 months?

    No, I don't think there is an appetite for a new party - centrists remember the fate of the SDP even under more favourable circumstances with a shudder. If we had PR I'm quite sure that both Labour and Tories would split, but we don't.

    If the LibDems were doing really well, they'd be attracting centrists, but at present they merely offer a stark illustration of the limited picking to be had.
    Agree the lessons of the SDP blocks a new centre left party. More likely IMO if Corbyn is forced out or comes unstuck is a new Left party following a pattern we have seen across Europe.

    Not good either way.
    FPTP prevents the creation of a new party. I have never liked it, but these days I am effectively disenfranchised. That's not a nice feeling.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    Critics here underestimate the extent to which members like being led by a socialist idealist. We've had 20 years of dogged loyalty to leaders who focused primarily on getting elected and made whatever compromises they felt necessary (Tony positively liked some of the compromises and is therefore a bit different, but the effect was similar). Being led by someone who expresses the sort of things that made us want to join is refreshing.

    The absence of an alternative who has a clear path to victory over the Tories makes the choice easy. If such an alternative appeared, people would consider it, but at present the choice is someone who speaks for us and...not very much. Certainly I am not minded ever to vote for one of the people who are indulging in whinging and sniping without a coherent idea of their own, and I suspect others feel the same.

    FWIW my current Broxtowe blog has so far had a 100% positive response, including from non-Labour people, though I assume that people who are actively hostile have drifted off (http://www.nickpalmer.org.uk/should-we-join-the-war-in-syria/ ).

    Good for you Nick, I hope Corbyn starts a momentum towards people standing up for what they believe rather than this ghastly fashion of agreeing with everyone.

    The Labour party should show the footage of Cameron being towed along by huskies, that was when it dawned on me what a fraud the man is.
    I don't buy this latest fashionable guff that "standing up for what you believe in" is wonderful, regardless of what you believe in. History provides endless examples of people standing up for what they believe in and acting on those beliefs and causing nothing but chaos and pain and disaster.

    It's what you believe in that matters. There is nothing admirable about standing up for repellent beliefs.

    "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    https://twitter.com/Sputnik_Intl/status/669093505231405056

    Reports coming in of Russian troops (unverified), fighting in Syria.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited November 2015
    MikeK said:

    //twitter.com/Sputnik_Intl/status/669093505231405056

    Reports coming in of Russian troops (unverified), fighting in Syria.

    What's that poorly photoshopped image meant to prove?

    Kippers love acting as Putin's mouthpiece.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    MikeK said:

    Now there will be hell to pay
    //twitter.com/zaidbenjamin/status/669097878560899072

    What are the Russians going to do, bomb the Syrian opposition? Oh wait, they already are.

  • On topic, essential reading from Stephen Bush:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2015/11/new-poll-shows-jeremy-corbyn-going-nowhere

    Summary: the disaffected MPs are currently stuffed.

    They don't like the leadership and they don't like the membership. Perhaps a new party would suit them better.
This discussion has been closed.